Hello and welcome to the Swim Brief. I'm Chris DeSantis, and I am really pleased to be joined today by the head coach, fresh off uh a trip to Australia, a junior Panbacks, the head coach of Windermere Lakers, Kyle Goller. Kyle, how are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing good. It's great to be on here, and thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and we got great timing because like you're you're really like we're we're here just off of um what are we like, I guess a week to 10 days from the end of that that meet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh 10 days.
SPEAKER_01And so I want to get a fresh reaction from you because a lot of the people that listen to this podcast, they are swim coaches, right? Um, and very few of them are gonna have the experience of representing the United States, going at basically as far away as you can in the world to represent the United States as a coach. So, like for the audience here, just tell me a little story about what that experience was like.
SPEAKER_00Uh, it was uh definitely a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Um, you know, just you know, not even being a swim coach, Australia has always been on my bucket list to go to. So, you know, having my work helped me get to that bucket list of going to Australia and experiencing, you know, not only you know the coaching side and being with some of the top athletes in the country, but just seeing the beauty of Australia and um the people there are great are great people. And um, you know, it was just a great experience overall, both you know on the swimming side and just you know personally seeing Australia for for the first time was awesome.
SPEAKER_01And and what did it entail? So you had you had an athlete on the team, she she did exceptionally. We're gonna get to that in a second. Um, but but walk people through like what is it like? Okay, you you you go to trials, Olympic trials was the was the qualifier for this meet. You have an athlete qualify at that meet. What happens between then and you know you're on the ground uh starting the meet in Australia?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um, I mean, when you you know you do trials and uh you get the email saying that your your swimmer has made it, um, you know, kind of starts there. Um so Riley got the email. Like I think I got back to the hotel after she swam her 50-free finals uh trials and she got it. She got it to the 50 free and the 100-free. So it was it was pretty quick. Um so you know, um the net following week I got a call from Mary um from up in Pennsylvania, I think, uh Mary Corey, uh asking if I wanted to join the staff. And um, you know, of course, this again, this is a once in a lifetime experience, and I, you know, thought it would be good to go and experience it, um, not only for you know with with Riley, but you know, just to work with other top coaches in the country and top swimmers as well. Um, so following Monday, we we kind of got everything straightened away with me going, and then it was just kind of like you know, meetings with Brendan Hanson, who was the lead technical coach. Um, you know, Mary was my head coach for the women's side, and you had Jason Walters from Lakeside as the as the men's head coach. So I'm just getting familiar with all the staff, the head coach, the head coaches, and um, you know, Brendan Hansen and the the you know support staff was was just cool to to see and experience for the first time. And and then on top of all that, having to get ready and you know send um emails out to the coaches of the swimmers I was going to coach, which was the sprint group, I had to obviously take care of my swimmers uh back home at Lakers. So, you know, it was it was a little tough juggling around with what I have here at in Orlando, and then just having to make sure that I take care of um all my swimmers I had in my group um was a little tough, but you know, once you get the ball rolling, it rolls nicely. So um, you know, our biggest meet for Lakers was futures in in Huntsville. Um, so we by by between Pan Packs and from trials when I found out it was pretty much getting those kids ready for futures. And um, you know, it was we had really good futures, um, and then just kind of focusing on Pan Packs after that. Um so you know, we it was kind of nice because um Riley went to the um Pan Pac camp up in the OTC. You know, I think we got back from futures I think like the 24th, and I think they left like the 25th, and they spent you know almost two weeks up there. So you know, she got the experience to be with people that were gonna be at Australia and some of the coaches and whatnot. And that Monday we got back and Tuesday we left. Wow. They the August 13th we left. So it was it was well worth it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you've been working nonstop. I mean, uh that's I think one of the things that's that's always captured in this is like it's such an honor. I I had the chance to represent Denmark uh a couple times when I was coaching over there, and it's such an honor, but it's also like, oh, by the way, you've got another part-time job at least that you're just gonna do for this extended period of time. Um I I think that uh you highlighted a piece of that that I always found was was really important in these situations. Like it's such a learning experience, right? I mean, right, day to day, you're in Florida, you're coaching your team, you're interacting with your coaches. Yes, you go out to meets and you see other people, but like it can be very much like you're you're in your own bubble. And then all of a sudden, if you can make it onto a staff like this, right, you're gonna have a chance, you're gonna have a lot of chances actually, both to interact with the other coaches that are on the coaching staff with you, to interact with the co other coaches who've put somebody on the team, right? You said like you gotta like talk to the the person who's you know in that tough position of like, hey, I put somebody on the team, but I have to watch this meet from you know Illinois or whatever. Like I don't get to come to Australia to watch the meet.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01I wonder for the audience's sake, like what were what were the some of the things uh you learned out of those interactions?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so like um, you know, and I know we'll probably get to this later, but on Lakers, we you know, I I was head sprint coach uh just because you know Riley made in the 1510s, so they just put me with the sprint group. Sure. But you know, at Lakers we more focus on like the five free and the four IM and we we train through that methodology. So how I would do our sprint workouts are different from other people's. And so just you know, talking to you know, different coaches is it's just really cool to see like you know what they do and you know the yardage and you know what aspects they attack in certain you know parts of the practice, you know, compared to what we do. And just like the verbiage, I think that's the biggest thing is like um you know, I'm a big firm believer in like switching things up and you know, kind of um being comfortable with being uncomfortable in certain aspects, and I like to learn different verbiage because you know, um with swimmers, it's all about communication. And you know, you could say one thing a thousand different times and they could maybe understand it like twice using the different verbiage. So it's just kind of cool to see what other coaches do around the country in terms of like how they write the workouts, their seasonal plan, um, how they rest their athletes, um, again, the verbiage of the workout. It's just cool to see, you know, um, and and that's the beauty about the sport is it doesn't have to be done one specific way or even two specific ways. It can be done thousands of different ways, right? And you know, each each kid that I coached on the sprint group had different workout, different verbiage. You know, it was just it was just cool to have that diversity in a group of I only had like six, seven kids. Right. So it was just cool to see that type of diversity in one group that you know work worked yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I think it's a great point about uh communication and as you say, verbiage. I mean, uh one of the most influential moments I had in my coaching career was uh I had an opportunity to shadow around uh Milton Elms. I've talked about it a lot of times on this podcast, a guy who's uh really well known for his ability to uh just coach people the way they move through the water. And he used all sorts of weird words for everything. And you know, like I've I've been like hanging in the background, shy, you know, not saying very much. Listeners of the podcast can't imagine that that's true because all I do is talk. But uh I promise you I was shy and I worked up the courage to ask him a question. I said, Hey, Milt, like why do you use all these weird words? And the explanation has always stuck with me. I think it's really important. It speaks to what you're talking about. He said, Chris, okay, if I use a word that somebody already knows, right, they already have a definition in their mind. I can't erase it. Right, it's there, right? So I'm gonna tell them to do one thing, and no matter how I describe it, they're kind of gonna go, oh, it's this other thing, right? And that that is always gonna be lingering there. If I use a word that they've never heard before, they're a blank slate, right? And then they're listening, okay, what does that mean? What am I what am I supposed to do based on this? So there's there's real value sometimes in using terminology that people don't understand at all when you want them to change the way they're they're doing something.
SPEAKER_00100%. Yes, sir. 100%.
SPEAKER_01Um let's back up.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Uh and and uh talk. Um, we're gonna sort of talk backwards from you've referenced uh Riley is the is the athlete that made the team. Um a lot of people that are listening to this podcast, if you're if you're a swimming fan, um, if you're a swimming coach, you you know who this is. I mean, she's she's what like the fastest um 50, 100 free styler, 1314.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah um.
SPEAKER_01And and she went a 53, uh, and I think that's probably the fastest an American 15-year-old has ever been, as well, in the 100-free.
SPEAKER_00I think so, yeah. I think so.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna force you to brag about it, Kyle, on the podcast. I know you're a I know you're a humble man, but listen, like um, these are some pretty impressive accomplishments. But you know, I think people get attention and and big swims like this draw attention. If we start with Riley herself as an athlete, okay, because she's still a really young athlete. I mean, really, she's at she's a developmental athlete in in in swimming terms. Um, we can see the amazing, like sort of near senior international level results now. But I guess if you can take us back as far as you can to the beginning. Okay. When you look back and say, okay, now I have this athlete that is doing amazing things. What do you think went right? Could just highlight some things that you think went right developmentally to get to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so, you know, uh when she was, I think she came to the Lakers when she was nine, and her brother was 11, about to turn 12. Um, both both siblings, when they tried out, um, immediately I saw that they had great fuel for the water off the top of the bat. Um and, you know, with them being so young and just seeing how they moved was really special to see. And I I knew right then and there that we had something special with not only Riley but Ryan as well. Um, but you know, a lot to do with it for um you know, both of them was they just they loved to swim and they they you know put everything that they can to try to get better in swimming. And you know, having I think an older brother for Riley to have, you know, sort of advice from helped her a lot too. And um, you know, she was she's just easy to coach. I mean, she anything you give her, it sticks. You know, it you don't have to repeat it multiple times, you don't have to say it six different ways. It's you know, you tell her, hey, you know, I need you to do three dolphin kicks off your wall, and I need you to do a better first stroke going or first pullout go into your stroke, and it's done right there. And you can see the practice in it, not only for that practice, but moving forward. You see that every day. And um, like I said, um, you know, you just you just see her and you have a lot to work with in her tools. I mean, um, you know, she she has height, she has a lot of length, and that's just great to have in, you know, in a in a female swimmer. And it makes my job easy for her just to come in and just wants to work and just does what is asked to do and a little bit more too.
SPEAKER_01So I I want to ask you about one piece of that because I I've been asking this question on the podcast to a lot of people, and I have, you know, I don't know that we're gonna get to a definite answer here, but I think it's really an interesting question for coaches. You said something in there that I've I've said on this podcast about the best swimmers that I've ever coached, it's some variation of exactly what you said. Like, whatever you throw at them, they they make it work. Like they they find a way to make it work, and there's that coachability that you're speaking to there. What I'm always thinking about, because right, in this case, like a lot of the way you're telling the story is like she came in, she had a great feel for the water, she's been extremely coachable. We all want to have as many coachable athletes as we possibly can. Do you think it's possible to coach people to be coachable?
SPEAKER_00Um, I believe it can be. Um I, you know, it it's um at Lakers, we always say it's not done my way or the highway. It's it's a partnership, you know, you gotta meet in the middle. And I think if you have athletes that are willing to meet in the middle and like truly meet you there, then they can be very coachable because when you when you meet in the middle, there has to be some level of trust, right? Or else it, if there's no trust, then it's the coach probably going 99% of the way, and then the athlete goes one, right? You know, at Lakers, we we as a staff do the best we can to establish trust first. And then that allows the kids to meet us in the middle about you know things we we expect them to do, whether it be um in the classroom, uh swimming, you know, being a per better person outside of the pool deck, because you know, um where where we come from at Lakers, we not only want to coach really good swimmers, but we want to create even better young adults for the for life. So I I I believe that you know any kid can be coachable, um, but it's it's uh you know part of the coach to give trust and just allow the athlete to trust the coach to put them in a position to be successful. And I think it's part of the athlete to want to be coachable and um you know they have to have the drive. It you can't force a kid to do something that they don't want to do. And and that's why, you know, um fortunate for me at Lakers, we all of our kids have the trust in us that they do, you know, meet us in the middle. They are very coachable athletes, and I think that's a lot of the success that we have is just that trust that you know I have my swimmers back, and then in return the swimmers, you know, take in all the knowledge that not only myself but my staff give to them, and and that creates, I think, a great chemistry and success.
SPEAKER_01The swim brief podcast is brought to you by Chris DeSantis Coaching. Being a coach is isolating. You know that saying that it's lonely at the top? Well, for many coaches, that's reality. Being a coach means everyone has an opinion on what you're doing. It takes work to filter out the noise and make the best decisions. You need to be able to think through plans, ideas, and problems proactively. At Chris DeSantis Coaching, I fill that gap for coaches. I'll help you turn every rocky moment into a slingshot and provide the support you need to be at your best. You deserve to have someone in your corner, and everyone on your team will benefit. If you want an expert to have your back in your coaching career, go to Chris Dcoach.com right now and fill out a contact form. You'll get an hour of my time at no cost to you. You don't have to go it alone any longer. Back to the podcast. Yeah, give me an example of that. I because I like I love what you're saying. I love the concept, you know, of of a partnership and athletes meeting in the middle, but I, you know, it's one of these things that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. And and when you say, okay, we at the outset, the coaches are establishing that they are trustworthy. Right. Can can you walk me through, okay, what does it look like for a coach to establish that they're trustworthy? And then what are they what are they asking? Give me like give me an example of what are they asking from the athletes to come meet them in the middle on that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so like um, you know, at Lakers, we have a lot, we, you know, in my in my group alone, we have about 43 kids. Um from like you know, sectional kids all the way up to Olympic trials and in between. So you have you have different stages of talent level, you have different stages of events that they swim, you know, whether it be the 50-free all the way up to the mile, right? So, you know, what we believe in at Lakers is you know, again, you have to you do different things that you know you may not want to do. So, like for example, um, I have a boy now um who started off, I think, swimming at 13. Um, he was big into all the 50s, 50 free, 50 fly, 50 back, 50 press, right? And while you know, while that's a good start to have, you know, uh where where I believe in is not the end all be all. And you know, for him, it was a little bit of adjustment by saying, hey, like if you want to be good at the 100 now, right, you got to train a little bit of the 200, right? You always want to train for something above and train for something that you want to swim at at Lakers.
SPEAKER_01So at first it was a little bit of a hold on, let me just interrupt you because it's a really good point in what you just said. Why? Why, why, why is that a point of emphasis for you? Why do you always want to train somebody for something that's above what they're sort of thinking of as their primary and something below?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, for us, it we would tell the athletes it's kind of the endurance thing, and it's just, you know, um, you know, it's not like we go 2200 fly. That's not what we do. But you know, there is some some science and some, you know, meant mental um positivity that like, you know, look, like you're maybe a hundred freestyler, right? But you know, if you train for the 200 and and get that down, your hundreds gonna be better because you're training for something above it, right? So, you know, we always and that that's why I said earlier that we believe in the farm and the five free, right? Like, if you're good at the five free, and I mean, you know, 430 below, you're probably gonna have a good 200 time, you're probably gonna have a good 100 time, and most likely you'll have a decent 50 time as well, right? So um, you know, if if if if you train for something above, you know, it it's gonna help you up and down, in my opinion. You know, like a you know two is a great example, right? Because you know, you have enough endurance, right, to probably spit out a good 500 time, even if you don't swim to 500, right? If you're just a two-free style, a hundred free style, 50 freestyle. If you are really decent at the two free, you can probably be decent at the five free, right? But then all that endurance that you create in that base you created is going to help you finish up that second 50 of your 100 free now, right? So if you're good at the 50, you have that front end speed, good at the 200. Now you have that back end speed to finish up that 100, and that's where you kind of put it all together, right there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the way I always look at it, I'll let You finish talking about trust and walking through the whole process of the athlete, but the way I always think about it, and I hearing it and what you say is you know, um, and I'm somebody who went through a period of my life where I was super low volume. Like I would say I was a very like sprint-focused, shortest possible, let's create as much speed as possible focused. I think that that has short-term benefits in any given situation, but you reach a point of diminishing returns where it actually becomes a limiter that you haven't built capacity. Like capacity allows you to capitalize with some of that sort of sprint specific work. So unless you're pushing on both ends, you're always going to be limiting your potential in one or the other. Right. Right. And especially with young athletes who are so frickin' resilient and so capable of like they can do all sorts of different training um and adapt to it and and go every which way, it just doesn't make any sense to to specs specialize them in that way.
SPEAKER_00Correct, correct.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um so I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00Um no, you go ahead. I wanted you to keep going with the with the the the the trust in the yeah, and so like you know, just getting in this boy to kind of like understand, you know, um in science terms, you know, or it's just like layman's terms about the why, you know. At first they're not gonna see it because it's different. And obviously, if if the boy was just a 50 guy, you know, he's not gonna want to train for the 100 or even during practice, every blue moon that you know for 200 is a middle distance, right? But you know, the futures uh about a month ago at Huntsville, you know, he swam, I think the 100-free, 100-fly, 50. I think that's it. He went best times in everything. And afterwards, he was like, you know, I felt really good going out, like I normally do, but I felt even better coming back on that second 50 of both the you know, the one back and the one fly and the one free. And you know, he understands because saying that and believing it, that train that we did, you know, for the 200, he had that endurance to come out the second 50 just as well as he did the first 50. So, you know, I think it's I think it's a battle at first to have a kid just in that type of situation to believe, like, hey, you're more than capable than doing just the 50s, right? Like I see more in you. So let's be uncomfortable and train for the hundred strokes and 100 freestyle. But in doing that, you have to do something ultra uncomfortable for you. And every so often you may be put in like the middle distance group, and you gotta put some some yards in and get a base down so you're able to have that uh endurance to come back better and stronger on the second 50, or you know, for a 200, the third 50, last 50, whatever have you, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I I I I want I want to keep um down this theme of trust because I'm thinking of another thing as you're describing, you know, athletes um being uncomfortable. And I think it just has to do globally, like with where the coaching profession is in 2024. I mean, I think I think back to, I'm 41 years old, I think back to when I was um an age group athlete, and probably it was even more true before then, there was a natural sort of cultural built-in layer of trust, like for a coach, right? Like that was the coach, the coach asked you to do something, you should trust them, you should do what the coach says. But that has been eroded away, and part of that I think is a positive because there were a lot of people in the sport who operated abusively, who frankly were bad to kids, and we shouldn't teach kids to just blindly trust no matter what, right? Authority figures. There's there should be a healthy level of you know, like understanding what is right and wrong. But on the other end of that, I think what a lot of coaches are dealing with is then they have trouble, right, communicating with people about like exactly what you're saying, which is, hey, I'm gonna take you to an uncomfortable place because that's actually gonna be really good for you. Right. Um, and so I wonder, if we come back to verbiage and communication, how how do you introduce that either uh to an athlete or maybe you get in a conversation with a parent where they go, hey, what why are you, you know, why are you doing this with my kid? Why are you pushing my kid in this in this direction? Um, how do you communicate that? How do you introduce that topic to those people?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um, you know, I start off by obviously you're doing what's best for the child, right? Like it is him, his or her swimming. And so ultimately, you know, they they have to kind of do it. And you know, they have to learn. It's not just like, hey, you know, three days out of the week we're gonna do uh sprint work, and the rest of the time we're gonna do aerobic work. Trust me, that's it. That's the end of the conversation because they're gonna look at you and be like, I'm not gonna do that. So you have you have to sit down and you know, um explain it to them, explain it to them the best way that they can understand it fully. And that could be, you know, scientifically and showing them, hey, like, you know, to work aerobic systems, you need to work anaerobic and anaerobic, you need to work aerobic. It it all works out. Some people may understand that, some people won't. So you have again the verbiage of things, and that's why I like to learn how different people um communicate, because you know, maybe some of the things I'm saying to you know, Sally may not correlate, you know, as well as I think it is, but if I keep having you know conversations and explaining it different ways, maybe that one time is actually going to click and figure out, right? While she's doing the practices and doing the season, right? So, you know, I I the best way is you know, kids, kids and I think adults don't know everything. I mean, we're always learning, I'm always learning, I don't know everything. Um, so I think the more knowledgeable you are, and you know, just giving the the whys to the to the swimmer and not just saying, hey, this is what we're gonna do, good luck, right? Like that that doesn't serve a purpose uh for for the swimmer, for the coach, or even for the team. You're just you're not gonna get results. So, you know, I think we do a great job on Lakers as to explaining the whys of things, you know, beginning the season and continuing that throughout the season. If kids have questions and you know, um parents have questions, we we continue those conversations throughout the season. You know, with the base would be um or the base of the conversations would be when we come back from break, you know, you typically in August, we usually have like a um So you've just done these, right? Yeah, I haven't done parents yet. That's gonna come, but um I you know when I came back August 12th from our break, you know, we we sat down with with my guys and started the base of the conversation for the year. You know, obviously, um, you know, I like to kind of change change some things up during the season, so I don't like to, you know, say, hey, this is what we're gonna do, have the kids get comfortable and then change at the last second, you know, all entirely, because while change is good and being uncomfortable is good, I I don't want kids to be too, too uncomfortable to where what we've done for August to November is gonna go kind of kind of to waste a little bit, you know, it needs to be kind of a gradual um ascent. So, you know, we always have the base of the conversation in August and just kind of work our way through as as we see fit. So, like for example, um, you know, when we came back in August, the first three weeks were gonna be um majority just drill technique work, going through the little things, and then the first week it was gonna be like 30 minutes of like a challenging shit set and then done. Yep. You know, the next week it was still the same thing drills, technique work, little things, and then 45 minutes of a challenging set. And then the third week it was gonna be the same thing, but an hour. And by that point, I had just gotten back, and the kids were like, We're we're ready to go, which is what I want to hear. You know, I don't want to like have them drag along and be like, oh, I don't want to do this, Coach College back, or you know, we're finally getting meat and potatoes. Like when I came back, I had a lot of people say, like, we're ready to go, and that's great. So now what we've done in those first three, you know, three weeks, we changed up a little bit. You know, now what we do is um at least for our senior group, we offer we offer eight practices, right? And you know, it's Monday morning, Wednesday morning, Friday morning, Monday afternoon, Tuesday afternoon, Thursday afternoon, Friday afternoon, and Saturday morning.
SPEAKER_01Um so no Wednesday afternoon, but three mornings a week.
SPEAKER_00Correct. So um partially because of that is we live in Florida in the months of August and September, it rains a lot of afternoons, so we don't get much in. Um second thing on that on Wednesday afternoon, since we are in the middle of high school season, a lot of our high school meets are actually on Wednesdays, afternoon. So um, you know, for a lot of kids, um, they don't, it's not really like an afternoon off, but it's more so like, you know, hey, we'll do aerobic in the morning, and then afternoon, you know, you get your your two events and two relays and just go swim and have fun, right? So um, and then days that they're not having a swim meet, it gives them, you know, almost 36 hours almost of rest. So they swim Wednesday morning, they don't have a high school meet, that's great. They get to recover, they get to sleep in Thursday morning, and then they swim uh Thursday afternoon. So it's it's like taking a day off with actually not taking the day off because you swam Wednesday morning and you swim again Thursday afternoon. So um what I've seen is um practices finish better the tail end of the uh week, which is what I kind of like and what I want, um, than years past where I've done maybe a Wednesday morning off a Wednesday afternoon on. Right Thursday, Friday, whatever have you. So we we do well better at the end of the week because we do have that 36-hour kind of recovery window on Wednesday morning to Thursday afternoon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you mean you really built two recovery windows into your week, even though you're training eight times a week.
SPEAKER_00Correct, yes, sir. So you know, um back when I was swimming, I know you said you're you're 41. I I'm 31. Um, so how dare you, how dare you reveal you're 10 years younger than me.
SPEAKER_01No, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00You know, when I was swimming, it was it was kind of more of a specialized environment. You know, you had your three stroke or three events for college, maybe four, depending on you know your your talent and whatever. So and I know in today's swimming world, we're kind of um straying away from that, which is great because I agree. College is like the what I call the Swiss Army knife of a swimmer, and you're you're talented in different aspects of you know the 50 hundred, 200 or flyback breasts, like you know, I I think you're more valuable doing a lot of different things really well, right? So, like I and I keep telling this, but 4IM5 free is what we kind of believe in. So um, and this is this year we actually finally put my idea and plan together because I've actually hired more coaches on on the staff to make this happen. So um, this is our first year doing it, but uh Monday afternoons, Monday, Monday morning, Friday morning are power mornings. So we have tubing, we have um drag socks, we have uh parachutes, and then sometimes we'll just sprinkle in like a sprint set of like 25s and 50s on you know, like a two to one rest ratio. Um because my belief is um, and our our idea is you have to swim fast in the morning and make finals. Everybody knows that, right? If you can't swim fast in the morning, you probably won't get a second swim. And um, you know, in the past we've always done our power in the afternoon and more like aerobic work in the morning. So um me like liking to change things up a little bit. Um I feel like for us to get better in the mornings, which we typically are pretty decent in the mornings, but just you know be being better, you know, I think power in the mornings may help us do that, and we've never done it before. So um, you know, I'm uh I like to learn through how I do things, whether it works or it doesn't work. Um, because you're you're never gonna know this, the the secret sauce unless you try it. And if you fail, then you learn, you make corrections and you try again. If it works, then you can still do it. But I you know switch it up how you do it. So um, so for this, this this year, we're gonna do power Monday, went Monday and Friday mornings. Um Monday afternoons, we break off into three groups. It's all freestyle, but it's your distance group, your middle distance group, and your sprint group. And we have each coach coaching that group. So, like, you know, I maybe one week we'll do the distance group, and then we have our other assistant coaches fill out the middle, middle distance and sprint group, right? Um, Tuesday afternoons are our stroke days. So we break off into fly group, breaststroke group, backstroke group, right? And we have a coach coaching each group. Um, no Wednesday afternoon, but Wednesday morning we'll switch off. Um, you know, one week we'll do freestyle aerobic. The following week we'll do I am aerobic and just switch it off there, or even stroke, depending on how we look, how you know how the week goes. Um, we'll kind of play that by ear, like the night before or like even the the morning before. But um usually we do between freestyle aerobic or I am aerobic. Um Wednesday afternoon off, Thursday morning off, and then Thursday afternoon we break off into 2 IM or 4 IM groups. And you know, um the the group name isn't like you know, it's not necessarily like we are doing 4 IM work or we are doing 2 IM work. It's not sometimes it is kind of specific towards that, but it it kind of helps us break down the groups into two instead of having 43 swimmers in one group. Because now that I have the coaches to be more hands-on, I think it's good to kind of split the groups up into two to have more swimmer-to-coach ratio. So some some Thursdays we'll actually do like a legit four IM set and a legit two I am set, but sometimes we'll just split and just have you know different hands-on coaches with with the athletes. Um, yeah. And then Friday mornings power, Friday afternoon is mostly kick. Um probably more focused on kick and just some freestyle sprinting. Um, and then Saturday mornings are lactate work. Um, if we're coming back from break, obviously we'll do some aerobic work to kind of get back into shape. But um, right now we're gonna hit our first um lactate practice tomorrow morning. Tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01The swim brief podcast is brought to you by Chris DeSantis Coaching. Are you tired of not competing at your best? I've worked with countless athletes who felt that their mind was limiting them on race day. As a pioneer in the field of positive psychology, I have a unique approach. Instead of fixing what's wrong, I help athletes build an entirely new framework from the ground up. And I do it in as little as 12 weeks. I teach them how to make their active mind something that helps them. The work that I do stays with athletes long after we finish. Those that work with me get permanent results that go beyond their sports career. They not only bust through their current plateau, but learn what to do when the next one comes. If you know an athlete that could benefit from a complete rebuild of their approach, fill out a contact form at Chrisdcoach.com. Let's find out what they're truly capable of. Back to the podcast. You said so many things that I want to revisit. I just want to comment um, because you started this off, I think, very brilliantly talking about the way things have progressed. I think, you know, even from me growing up to you back to now, there's been a trend. There's a trend from me to you, from generalization to specialization. And now things are trending back towards generalization. And I told you, I agree with you. I actually think that was one of the big trends I saw coming out. I've talked about it on this podcast, um, coming out of trials, was I saw so many elite athletes actually that I would have expected would be far more specialized that were spreading out into other things. I mean, um, you know, you look at somebody like Ryan Murphy, who's, you know, he's he's like, what is he, 30 years old, and he's been dominating backstroke for all this time. He was racing the 100 fly at Olympic trials and going all the way through. Um, I just think that that like there's something to that. There's something to Chris Giuliano being this college sprint breakout star, but going, yeah, I'm gonna try to make the team in a 200-free long course. Um even uh Simone Manuel coming back and you know her swimming the 200 and and doing quite well in the 200. Um, you know, they're there I could see that a lot of even these elite swimmers, if if anyone should have an argument for like, hey, listen, um I'm in my mid to mid to late 20s, and it's time to just you know break the bank and specialize and like let's just go for it in this one event, these would be the people, and yet they're also going towards generalization. I think there's definitely something there. Yes. Um, I want to ask you about, because you know, you're talking about all the stuff that's possible in practice right now, and you made a comment in the beginning that really piqued my curiosity, which was you had to staff up, right? Because a lot of the stuff that you're describing, if it's just you or or you maybe just have you and one other person, there's 43 athletes in the water, it's just not possible to do, right? Um, and I think this is an issue for a lot of uh swimming clubs. I've talked to coaches right now, they're having a hard time staffing up. So I guess my question to you is how are you able to do it? How are you able to pull it off? And um, what did you have to change sort of organizationally to make your coaching staff bigger?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um so you know, um last year was my first year as a head coach. I was uh head head age group coach um, you know, since the start of Lakers up until last year. And um when uh the old head coach left um and I slid into the head coaching role. Um I I it's hard to find people being in Florida, it's hard to find people to uproot their lives and and and come down for you know um just any, you know, for any coaching gig, right? If the if the opportunity is not there, if the if the pay is not there for coaches, right? It's hard to tell your wife and two kids, hey, I want to move up to Florida for you know X amount of money and we'll see if this works, right? Like it's hard to do that. So my first my first um staff um you know search I did was finding that head age group coach that I used to do. And in Florida, I I like to think that you know we got some really good, you know, swimmers, but we we got really good coaches as well. So um, you know, luckily for me, when um I got the head coaching job late last summer, I was able to find my head age group coach almost immediately.
SPEAKER_01It it was I reached out you must have had somebody in mind then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I I reached out immediately to one person, and and luckily I struck gold with that one person, and it has been a tremendous great hire. It it he is very, very good. Um, and so um, you know, as as the year kind of went on, it was mostly um, you know, he was doing his age group practices and and building that up as well. Um, and then uh he was also helping me out with senior group um since I had so many kids. And in fact, I had um so on Lakers we have, you know, he's I guess he wouldn't be considered a head age group coach, but he's like our 13 14 coach. And then we have like a head age coach. So disregard kind of what I was saying earlier, but I I'll follow, I'm following. So I had I had a uh coach already there who Was more, I wouldn't say developmental either, but he mostly just kind of got the younger kids to be competitive from pre-competitive. But he also helped out with like the 13-14s and then helped me out with senior group and whatever. And then I split in head coach. I found my new guy. So my role then was head age group coach, senior, and then the 13-14 coach, assistant senior coach, and then my head age group coach. So that was the that was the big three last year. And all three of them helped me out with the senior group because I had so many. And you know, at the time, you know, it was the Olympic year and it was my first year being the head coach of a club team. And on top of that, I was doing high school. You know, it there was just a lot of things going on. And um, you know, when when we were doing practices, it was just kind of like, all right, here's the one set, you know, one practice for everybody. You know, we'll try to tailor it, tailor it to, you know, a 50 freestyler doing a 4 a. set, right? Like I get that we're not gonna get the same results for him as we would for, you know, somebody that's really good at 4 a.m. So throughout last year, it was more so like kind of tailoring practice to different people. And then this year, finally getting two new heck or two new assistant senior coaches that also help out in various other groups within our club. Um, it's it's just been so nice to take a step back, you know, on my 15-hour flight to Australia to and from, and just taking a step back and just seeing like what can we do better, you know, what what can I do to help all athletes get the best out of themselves. And, you know, I had already knew having four, you know, coaches on the senior staff that I could probably make this work. But it's just a matter of like what days do I do what and how do I want to execute this. And so um, again, this is our first year doing it, like how I have it. Um, you know, talking to the kids. This is our second week in um to doing this format. The kids love it because you know, you're not having a kid, like I mentioned earlier, who may who actually may be just a 1500 freestyler doing a 4IM set, right? That's not gonna benefit the kid at all. Because, you know, what whatever you know genes he has, you know, whether he whether he's really true anaerobic, is not is not gonna help him just getting lapped up and down, doing incorrect technique, you know, you know, not putting all the effort in. So now that we are able to have that specification within kind of days where it's stroke days and IM days and whatever have you, I can already see the results of attendance, one, and then B, just the effort that they give in the practice now because it it's something to actually see the value in doing. And we as a coaching staff love what we see so far, and only two weeks into doing this after we've done all the drill and the in the foundation work the first three weeks. Um, so it's it's been really good, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01I want to bring things full circle as we get to the end of this, because we started this talking about Pan Packs and the meet that you were just at, and you know, sort of work backwards to talking more right just structurally about the team and and what you're trying to accomplish there and some of the themes and and culture around this. Um here's here's a question, my my my final question, and I'm just really curious about this. So you you have this athlete who just has an incredible result, right? I mean, it's is it fair to say she's the best athlete you've ever coached in the sport of swimming? Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. So what do you what's next? Like as you I cat as I catch you at a reflection moment, right? You gotta you gotta think about like what are what are we gonna do next? What kind of conversations have you guys had? What have you been thinking about to take things forward from this point?
SPEAKER_00Um, are you talking about with with Riley?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um we actually haven't had a talk yet. Um, you know, we came back from Pan Pax, and um, you know, her brother is currently at open water worlds right now in Italy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I see. So um so life goes on.
SPEAKER_00Right. So um she is taking some well time, you know, with her family in Italy and and taking the you know a week or two off just uh perfect be a 15-year-old girl. I mean, you know, the past year for not only her, but for our club team. I mean, you know, we've had you know, people make the news and headlines, and you know, we're at these meets and people see our logo, and you know, we're in swim swam and swimming world, and you know, it's not just one person, you know, the whole team was elevated this year because of our success. And you know, I I think you know she and and all the kids deserve that break, you know, physically and mensily, because I I know when we got to you know futures, I could already see that we were all, you know, not physically trained, but you know, mentally and a little emotionally. It was a long year for all of us. And um, you know, I think her and those kids deserve to be a teenager for a couple weeks. So um we haven't had a conversation yet. You know, she's having her time with her family in Italy, and I I want her to take, you know, take time for herself to be a teenage girl, just like all the other kids on our team did. And um, you know, we'll we'll have that conversation when she comes back when when she's uh ready to ready to have it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I think that's valuable too. I mean, I think it's one of the things that people get caught up in the sport of swimming is that just go non-stop, yeah, right? And then you never have time to reflect. Like what I'm at the question I'm asking you, you absolutely need some distance before you can start answering it. You don't you don't start answering it the day after. So um so we're jumping the gun a little bit, but uh I'm I'm curious and uh and uh I'll be interested to hear what how this develops and and follow how this develops um with the with the team as well. Um uh uh good luck to uh what's her what's her what's the brother's name? Um Ryan.
SPEAKER_00Ryan. He uh yeah, I know it's I know it's uh uh Friday and you guys won't air until Monday, but he actually just swam to 10K yesterday and did very, very well. So he's um he did that yesterday, and then tomorrow, Saturday, he's doing like a 3K knockout type deal where they do like a 1500 and then a break, and then a thousand and then a break and then a 500. Wow. So he's very excited about that. And then Sunday, I um I think they're doing a relay, like a mixed relay open water. Um, so he he's having the time of his life over there, and he's he's doing really well. Um, he he deserves it. He's he's a great kid, and and I really enjoy working with him as well. So he's he's doing everything that I ask, and it's it's showing in the results.
SPEAKER_01Well, phenomenal uh results and and uh it was a great time talking to you and hearing about all that. Congratulations to everybody there. Congratulations to you, uh, coach, on everything uh that you've accomplished here in the past year. And I hope uh the audience of this podcast, I hope you guys really enjoyed hearing from Kyle. If you want to reach out to the podcast, uh you can email me at swimbriefpodcast at gmail.com. You can go on my website, Christycoach.com, fill out a contact form. Um, or I do respond grudgingly to Instagram messages if you Instagram me at Christy underscore coach. That's the first time I've used that. I'm glad you laughed, Kyle. Um everybody else, thank you for listening, and we'll be back again next week with another podcast.