Hello and welcome to the swim brief. I am Chris DeSantis. And I'm joined. We're actually recording at a different time, but somehow Joel Rawlings is still furiously eating at the beginning of the podcast.
SPEAKER_02It's what I do. What is going on?
SPEAKER_00I I just I I eat all the time. Is this like Pavlovian now? Like you go, like, I'm gonna get on the podcast with Chris. Let me like I need to start having a snack.
SPEAKER_02Is that uh no, it's just it's just the former swimmer in me, just I always if I'm sitting, then that means I'm hungry.
SPEAKER_00Well, what are we gonna talk about today? I'll tell you what, I pitched this idea to you, and now I'm about to take it in a completely unexpected direction. So I know you're super excited.
SPEAKER_02All right, so it's like a reaction video just without the video. Got it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Joel reacts. We're capturing Joel's completely honest reaction. What I said was, hey, let's have a podcast where um I read some really frustrating emails that I got as a coach, but we'll we'll you know do them from a long time ago. So, you know, it's not you can't remotely be about um somebody you know that you've coached recently where they could like recognize themselves, like and just use these as an example. We can talk through them, how you know how we found ourselves responding in situations like that, and you know, how we would have done it better in the past. And you know what happened when I went go looking went to go looking for those email.
SPEAKER_02All the anger came rushing back.
SPEAKER_00No, I couldn't I couldn't find them. I mean, I couldn't I'm reading through communications that parents had sent me, and I I knew that man, I would get real frustrated. And I was just reading these and I go, Yeah, those that sounds all right, actually. All right. And so my insight in starting this was I think, and I do have one email to read, and I maybe we'll use this as an example. But I I wonder if it says more about the mindset I was in when I was reading these emails for the first time, you know, versus the mindset of just like reading them as a completely like, you know, I barely remember specific things from 10 years ago, but as I'm reading through some of these emails, I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, that sounds reasonable. That's a reasonable thing to communicate, you know. But I'm I'm reading them as a completely different person than I was in the moment. Um, and I don't know, maybe uh maybe the worst communications that I thought I ever received, um it was just it was more about how I was doing as a coach. Like, was I at the end of my rope, basically, when I was reading these emails, versus today where I'm like, ah, I'm in Denmark and it's beautiful weather outside, and I get to see all these people that I love, and like, well, all these communications seem really straightforward and positive. Um, I don't know, Joel.
SPEAKER_02I I think that's 100% what it is, is is um well, not 100%. There's always there's always that evil that you have to deal with sometimes, but nonetheless, it uh uh you know it's it's what uh you know, every time you look at something online, every time we read an email, it's like we put whatever context we have into it, or like whatever the last interaction we had in it. It's like, what do you mean by have a nice day? Kind of sarcastic stuff, you know? Right and then you read it now, you're like, have a nice day. Well, that was really rather pleasant, I guess. And so one of the things I've tried to do is when I when I do that, is just uh just just try to take a different tone, just try to go completely neutral tone. And uh, and I did this at the university uh because you we'd we'd get all these emails all the time. And I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna I'm just gonna go and and see that person face to face and see what's going on. And I scared the heck out of someone in the financial because they were being sarcastic and rude, and I was like, hey, what do you mean by that? And then all of a sudden they're like, you know, the the the keyboard muscles got a lot smaller. But for the most part, it's like once you get an email, it's like you know, if that initial reaction, just just sit on it for a while. It's okay. Just let it let it pass for a minute. And and then and then again, if you can see the people face to face, because it's just we get so much you know, bombarded with so much electronic information, and and whatever, like you said, whatever tone it is, maybe the sun's not out, maybe Chris's coffee was a little bit too strong and he's a little edgy today. And then that that's it. Now now it's rolling, and you might have said something in motion that you can't stop.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I do think it is good advice in general, and one of the things I was planning on saying in the original version of this podcast to when you feel like you have a pretty big emotional response to especially an email, to sit on it, right? Because um you know, it just prevents you, it prevents the worst possible outcome, which is you all high on whatever it is you got going on, you know, anger most of the time, firing off an email, like that's the worst possible outcome in this situation.
SPEAKER_02One thing and so I was thinking, I was actually having this conversation with a friend the other day. And so again, the the parents, when they send an email or they have a talk with you, also the context that they have is basically like uh like a photograph. It's one little snapshot in the uh you know, the career of Chris DeSantis. You know, it's like it's one moment. I mean, they might have been on the team for a year, and for them it seems like forever, and you've been coaching 20, 30, 40 years, whatever it is, and then they don't know. Like, you know what? My daughter's really upset that you weren't there to watch her swim her first 25-yard backstroke. And you know, again, it's like for them, that's that's the biggest thing ever. And can't believe that you, as the head coach or the coach ahead of that person, were not even related in any way to this kid. And you're like, I've seen a thousand of these, I've seen this, I've seen that. And and so right away, I think part of it is we kind of like thinking, I haven't taken a day off in six months. I'm going to back-to-back meets, I'm doing morning practices. This is one chance where I could have stayed an extra two hours at a meet to watch a 25-yard backstroke, or I can get home to my family, catch up on sleep so I can get up at five tomorrow and get to the morning practice. You know, but they see that snapshot of you at the meets and that's it. So you're only working four hours a week, Chris. So what I don't understand why you couldn't stay for another hour to watch my son or daughter do a 25-yard backstroke. And so that the thing is, is just the context for for all people involved is is so dramatically different. And it's like, are you supposed to like every, you know, is it like memento where every week you just get you have to have like all these tattoos on your body, listing out your your credentials and the amount of hours you've already put in just so that they don't blast you for leaving five minutes early. It's like, you know what, I can beat traffic home and I can see my son's game. I'm gonna get out of here right now. And like, oh, that was the most important day of my child's life. You just missed five minutes of. You're like, again, it it's that's I think that's the hardest part of coaching that I've seen is people don't see your day-to-day. They don't see how much time you went into practice beforehand. You don't see when you take it home with you, they don't see the extra effort you're putting in here or the morning practice that they weren't at. So they're coming in fresh, and then they're gonna put you on blast for one thing. And it's again, it's hard to not blast right back. And I remember like years back, some entry-level like name tag job I had, they had us watching that um, I don't even know what the video is called, but basically the Seattle fish market and about how they deal with customers.
SPEAKER_00Right, pike pike place, right?
SPEAKER_02And one thing that sticks out there was like whatever question that that person asked, no matter if it's the thousandth time you've heard it, it's the first time they've asked it, it's like, hey, is this fish you have here? Yeah, it's fish. You know, it is so hard not to go to sarcasm, especially swim coaches. You're tired, it's like right away, yes, it is. You know, again, and that's all that's all it has to be. So I think if there's a way we could like reset our our default of being sarcastic and stuff and understand that whatever question they have or whatever incident they have, it's probably their first time, and we need to be open to that and ready for that, even on our worst days.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you are making me think of though, I I do listen to a piece of this and it makes me think of another trap. I mean, I think it is a trap to reply in the moment, uh passionately. But you talk about like, you know, feeling like you're you're the lead character in Memento having to have a great movie reference from like 1999, by the way, for everybody. But uh anyway, the the the main character in that film, for those who don't know, um, he suffers from uh long-term, no, short-term, he can't form new memories, short-term like memory loss, essentially. He can't remember what happened just a few hours ago. Um, so he has all sorts of messages written or tattooed on himself in some way, you know, to remember remind him of the important facts he must retain. You know, but I think when you when you say that piece in in reference to you know having to represent this to the parents, I I think it's a trap to fall into like a defensive position too, where you're constantly justifying yourself. I mean, I one of the things I did find in going to this was actually a a year that um I was doing a contract negotiation, yeah, coaching my Danish club, and um I just like I actually sat down and wrote out you know what I did. I just tracked what I did for my job weekly, and I think I did like a almost a four-week period so that I felt I was being accurate about was then I was like, I'm gonna bring this to the the head of my board when I ask him for the salary, I'm gonna show this to him, and that's what's gonna get me like the raise that I want and all this stuff. And I just remember him looking at it and him going, like, yeah, I mean, you know, the boss at uh my company, he uh he works a lot, he's the boss. And I was like, but and there's just there was no like I guess it's a mistake, I think, to come and feel like the way out of this is that you're gonna uh persuade parents by virtue of your like factual logic reasoning of like how good of a coach you are, right? The thing that's going on is you have this estrangement from people. You are uh coaching their kids, you're coaching these people that are so important in their lives, and yet they don't really know you. And you don't really know them. And somehow we've decided, like, yeah, let's uh give people ways to communicate with other people that they don't know and strip all the context away. It's just words on a page, you'll have to fill in the context for yourself. Everybody's a fucking pessimist. Sorry, I would swear of the podcast. Oh, I know I'm in Denmark, it's a problem. You know, you everybody swears so liberally over here that it like that everybody's a pessimist. So you leave people to just fill in all that context. Of course they're filling in a context like, and I this is where after you respond, I might just read this email and I might do two kind of performances on it. One of which is probably the way I read it in the moment, and the one one is in the way in which I read it.
SPEAKER_02All right. So I uh so I coached the high school team for a little bit, you know, on top of the club. And so, you know, I'm always running from the high school practice, get in the car, drive across town, go to another club practice. So I got this email and um from this one swimmer I hadn't seen in months because had some sort of shoulder injury. Uh she had this, you know, again, the doctor's note, she's not gonna, you know, she's not she's not gonna be able to attend practices, she's doing therapy. And one of those is like, well, you know, again, you haven't been in the pool for two months. It's a high school team, you're gonna be around for three months. Well, why even be on the team? So the mom just lit me up for even suggesting that what what are you gonna do? You can't swim for two months, there's no time. Why do you want to be on the team? And so, you know, lit me up, athletic director had the meeting. I'm like, all right, fine, you stay on the team. I don't, yeah, I don't know. So I never saw the kid, you know, who's always had the note going off to therapy and stuff like that. And then um, turns out um after this, this she was a girl, she was 16, uh, got pregnant because what she was doing was she's not going to the therapy. She also wasn't going to swim practice, so she's telling one side she's going to swim practice, telling the other side she's going to therapist. She was actually going to the boyfriend's house. Uh, got pregnant, and so she's uh so the email I got was how that she wasn't holding me completely responsible for everything that's happened to her daughter since then. And again, you're you're like, when you get those oh, yeah, and so those are oh, I did not see that coming.
SPEAKER_00Holy smokes.
SPEAKER_02So again, you get those emails, you're like, wholly responsible? What and again, you just you just want to go, but you're like, you know, it's it's again, you what we've talked about in the past is again, this is their child, this is emotion. Like you said, you wanted to present rational. Here's the I worked 80 hours last week, I worked 90 the week before that, I'm putting all this time in. It's like that's rational. It has nothing to do with where they're at or or them wanting to do that. Is again, once emotion's evolved, once ego is involved, once anything like that's involved, there's no logical discussion. So you're like, yeah, you're right. You know, I appreciate you that, and best of luck, you know, send that off on its way, and and that's the end of that. And um, but again, it's one of those where if you take a lot of the stuff personal like that, and I know it's hard not to, because this is your livelihood. You you work hard at your craft, you work hard at being a good coach, and then you get people like sniping out at things of like small issues. Well, this is obviously a big issue, but issues again that that obviously aren't in your control. You're like, again, I just a lot of a lot of angry people in the world, and they're you know, again, when you have Twitter and you have email and you have all this other things where you can hide behind it, it's really easy to send that anger out. And so then I think as the coach, you know, this is this is me being able to step back from that now is like to be able to step away and like you know what, kind of like let the anger just wash you over the shore, and that's the end of it, you know, rather than like I'm gonna push back against this wave of anger. It's just pushing back against waves, nothing's gonna come of it, just you're gonna be tired and sore and just burnt out at the end of the day. So it's like, all right, great, yeah, you feeling better now, you got that out on the hourly employee of the high school, fantastic. Yeah, good on you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, but I I think I, you know, the as you say that though, it it kind of leads me to advice for coaches in this respect that like if you are if you are feeling like you're getting your anger triggered by emails you're getting, like that's an opportunity to take stock of where you're at in your life. Like what are you actually thinking about the thing that you're doing and feeling about what you're doing with your life at that moment? Right. Because if if it if it if an email can like tip you over the edge at any given moment, like you're not in a good place. And I don't I don't say that like uh to make somebody feel ashamed. I want I want the exact opposite. I want you to feel like I've been there and I go, like, I was not in a good place when I was reading some of these messages. Like it just wasn't I was I was talking about steering away from the waves of anger, it's just steering away from sort of confronting how like how miserable I was making myself in the moment that I was receiving some of these messages, and then you know, like yeah, people write, I mean people uh weren't weren't educated to write emails, but they write emails anyway. And um there could probably be quite a you know quite an English course taught on just like how to communicate in this mode, but people everybody's just out there winging it, and you just get messages, I think, that often like if you can there's one actual important thing being communicated, and it's communicated appropriately, and there's one thing that's sort of actually fairly within your control that you can do, but then you know, in the same way that I was trying to convince um my boss at my club in Denmark, if I just overwhelm him with like reasons why you know he should give me this raise, that's really gonna do it. Versus, like, yeah, maybe the parents have like one thing that they really think is is going on, but they feel they must present seven things to you, and then you're in this email and you go, like, oh, and yeah, oh man, and they said this and they said this, and man, they were rude about that, and like yeah, maybe they're just real bad at what they're trying to do.
SPEAKER_02I think there's two real important things, at least in my eyes, that that you just kind of said right there is one is kind of understanding what what it where's that tipping point for you? You know, where is it where all of a sudden, if you start to able to step back and realize, man, I'm getting overwhelmed here by this one little thing or this one major thing, it then it's probably been building for quite a while. And that's something now that I've I've stopped coaching for a bit, is realizing now that it's like these things add up and they're cumulative. Just because something happened two weeks ago, it doesn't mean it's gone. You know, it's still probably inside of whatever you're doing. It's building, building, building, building. And now you're getting this one trigger point. Like I mentioned to start the show was the idea of the you know, the photograph that snapshot of them seeing one moment and them not seeing everything that's led up to that moment. Again, it it's like I think as a coach, we need to stop and be able to go. This is this is when we need to step back. Like, like I grew up in Wisconsin, which is a a beer and bar culture. So it's one of those where you go out at night, no, and then as soon as, as soon as like you, like the guy you're with, like, as soon as he seems funny, then I know I've had enough to drink because this guy's an idiot. And so then what you know, there you have to have like those mark marker lines where all of a sudden once once an email is enough where I want to fire back, then it's like, you know what, I I need to take this next weekend off, and I gotta assign it out to an assistant coach. And um, and I I've seen right now in in you know firsthand of you know, kind of the new school coach versus the old school coach, old school coach working at a club where like I've been taking a you know vacation since 1978, you know, never had a day off, anything like this. I keep on working and things. Meanwhile, this coach is like, you know, it's taking another three weeks off to you know follow fish around the country or something. You know, again, you're like you're like, I understand where when your paradigm is you keep on working, keep on grinding. Um, but again, you're the one also taking the blood pressure medication and a lot of blood thinners and having a lot of ailments. Meanwhile, the other so again, if you don't have that balance, things can also just overwhelm you too much. And so we need to step back a little bit and understand like, you know what, the lifestyles that we've been leading up to this point, maybe not the best. And what everyone went through in COVID of all that work of every day, I'm running 18 practices because I can only have one kid in a lane at a time. It's like they did the work. I don't know if everyone's recovered from that. And so, again, I I guarantee they're not, and so I think that's the other thing, too, is reevaluating and going, you know, what I need to do is I need to look out again, if if you're not able to swim, how are you gonna save someone else? And so if you're if you're already kind of like drowning, you're not gonna help someone else. And so you got to be able to get a little rest in too. Uh, but again, I the second part of what you're saying, though, with the idea of just um kind of having that that accounting of being able to know where you're at, but also kind of knowing how to send out an email where you're not putting whatever your emotion is into it, just bullet point just straight to the thing. I've always seen that the more excuses people have, the flimsier the thing is. If it's just one strong thing, you know, it's like death in the family. I have to go. Understood. It's like, well, my cat's been sick, this has been sick, and now it's like 18 different things, and now kind of leave it up to the person to go, okay, well, I don't see anything really strong in there. I'm I'm supposed to pick the one thing out. You know, it's like giving a kid 40 things to work on before they go into a race. You're like, um I'll I'll take breathing threes. I don't know. You know, again, it's like the one thing that's relevant to them. And so that that's why, like you said, I think it, you know, email obviously is is the only way we're able to get across to mass groups, but just again, making it to the point. In and out getting quick and try to drop sarcasm as much so that the the frame of reference is always like have I ever sent an email that was like this that you would read it in that tone? So that that is your defense. Like, yeah, give me the benefit of the doubt. Ask me a question if you think if you think there's a little bit of anger, if you think there's something against you, give me the benefit of the doubt, just give me a call and I'll explain.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you talk about taking a snapshot that that did make me think I do have one um good story. I had a parent that um that actually filmed me uh interacting with their their child. They filmed me at a swim meet, interacting with their child, and then also the way that I interacted with other select athletes after their races, and then was was trading around like to my coworkers like, do you want to see this video of Chris that proves you know that he's like not treating my kid fairly? And that's how I found out about it, like around the bush. And I mean, I did like I was really it was so bold that I was like, I don't know what the heck to do in this situation. Like what like I was stunned. I just was like, it took me, I think, weeks to just process that somebody had like just been like whipped out their camera and been like, I'm going to like make a documentary about Chris's coaching from this perspective. Um it was it was really, really stunning. But you know, that one ended uh ended uh fine as well because eventually um I think hopefully owing to a good relationship with my coworkers, you know, one of them in response just sort of said, like, well, like do you do you think this is right to be filming this? Like, do you do you honestly like would you like somebody at your work like filming and editing like select interactions you have with people and then like trading it around your office? And that seemed to just sort of like bring it to a close, you know, and um maybe just at at some level appeal to a basic level of humanity, and I think it was you know, it you could say, yeah, they called they called that parent out, but you could also just say like they did it in a pretty empathetic way that's just like, hey, imagine can you just imagine being in a situation like this?
SPEAKER_02And it's not so much called out, you're wrong holding a mirror up to it. This is exactly what you did. Yeah. And and I think that's that's a really good thing that they did like that. Again, not saying you're an idiot for doing that, which again would have been my response to what would happen, and then that would set the whole ground on fire.
SPEAKER_00I would have been like, are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. But it I I know a coach, you know, for years what he would do in the season banquet, he would like go through it beforehand and make sure that each kid would have like two and a half minutes of talking point. That's it. You could have won like the Olympics, saved 18 kittens from a burning building, and cure for cancer, you're still getting two and a half minutes. And the guy that attended once a week, he's gonna get two and a half minutes because it because of that exact same thing. All these parents want so much with the fairness of it, and and I I understand, but I think a lot of times, much like Twitter is like they're taking anger from some other part of their world, some other slight, and they're gonna bring it into this moment. And I think the way to quell that the best is again holding the mirror up to what that is, where all of a sudden you need to go, yeah, um, you know, she did win a gold medal and cure cancer. I I think she can have three minutes. You know, it's just all it would take as a parent or teammate to do that. All in again, you know, like I just remember back all the time, you know, having to make uh certain selections to make the conference team. The people that didn't go to conference, you know, they have to tape around for a dual meet, and that was that was sucked. Um, but again, it's like one of those where I understand when they'd be back at a party or back in the dorm venting, oh, I can't believe this, I've outworked everybody on the team, and all the teammates like, yeah, you have, because you know, they're not gonna be the bad guy. But nonetheless, it's like for them to understand the moment and be able to kind of hold up to the mirror would be the best way to stop that. Where all of a sudden, like, you know, you did work really hard. Um, this person did happen to go five seconds faster than you. Again, no value to it. It's like, yeah, this was a you know, this is a this isn't a bad selection. You know, again, so not saying value, not saying idiot, but I think sometimes when they agree, yeah, yeah, look, Chris did wave his arm 18 times for that swimmer and only waved 12 times for your swimmer. Again, sometimes I think that gives more ammunition to them versus the right, you know, I don't know if this is appropriate. And that's all it is. There's no value to it, but now they've got to stop for a moment and look. And the same thing for us is as coaches, we need to stop like, you know, what what's an appropriate response here? You know, look, and uh you hate hate to use the phrase, I want to be the adult in the room when you're dealing with parents, but that's what you have to be, you know, because you it you're the person.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think uh, you know, I can I can recall a time also where I don't know if it was I'm trying to characterize it correctly, but the the the just the way that the parent uh came to me in that situation um I I realized, you know, as a parent myself that that it is it is really hard, like you you you feel so much drive when your kid is is not happy doing whatever it is throwing you doing. Like it it you just feel it, like it is it is almost an irresistible force, and you feel like you gotta do something. Right. And I think it's probably most of the time it's not even like uh attacking their coach. You probably have like 99 other dysfunctional ways in which you do it, but every now and then, you know, you like just release it on some on some poor, unsuspecting adult who's just like a good dude who likes swimming and you know, like meet your kid with a smile every day and some terrible dad jokes, you know, like and um it's so it it's it's humbling in that regard. I I was thinking about too, I mean, um a situation where I actually like I was mad at the time, but I realized it was really good that the parents did it. Um, and that was I had a kid on my team, and they like they hadn't been at practice recently. And I just asked them, like, you know, we were warming up and I was like, hey, where have you been? Like I haven't seen you in a while. And she gave me some excuse, but I remember it was like an easily checkable fact, like such and such was happening, you know, yesterday, and therefore like my parents couldn't take me. I was some kind of like pro sporting event. It must have been like a uh I don't know over here like heaven hope it was a soccer match, but um and I don't know. I just I just had a reaction, like I kept on pushing right with the kid in practice, like to find out because I was like, I can't make sense of this. And the parent eventually just wrote me and said, like, hey, I don't really want you pulling my kid out of the water in the middle of practice and interrogating them on where they've been. Like maybe just talk to them about their swimming. And you know what? They were totally right. They were totally right. And you know, when I took a five seconds to calm down about it, it was like, yeah, what am I doing? What, why, why am I giving a kid a hard time? Do I think that this is what gets kids to come to practice? Is like me grilling them over the course of a workout? Like, it just doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think that it is, it's it's like that. Again, we we put so much time beyond the pay that that it's like I think that that becomes the thing, is it's gone beyond transactional for us. And when it's just transactional on their side, sometimes it's like it's such a split that you end up almost driving those kids out because it is a they're just like, hey, I just just want to, you know, just want to swim a little bit, you know, not going to the Olympics and getting ready for high school or whatever it is. And you can see all the time on these coaching message boards how much like almost resentment there is that like, can't believe this person's taking up a spot on my team. It's like they're they're paying the dues, they're coming to the practice. Yeah, well, I don't know. Again, what where are all where where this is supposed to leave off? You know, again, that their dreams aren't your dreams. It's it's okay. Um, and so we need to step back, but then also, you know, you see on the other side of it, like, you know, parents coming from the stand, you know, punching officials and stuff like that, where you're like, there's a lot of anger just in the world. I mean, I I go out on the highway, I pick up my son a couple minutes. I go out on the highway, I'm like, you can just feel how much anger is out there. And half of these dudes are armed. Yeah, you know, I'm like, I don't need this. Yeah. Again, what uh that's the last thing I need is like, again, whatever anger they have, and that's I guess the the the ultimate coaching analogy is just what I'm about to go do, is all of a sudden I inadvertently cut someone off, they're gonna show out my back window because like they've had a bad week. You know, it's like I didn't have anything to do with your week. I was just trying to get over to pick my kid up from practice. The same thing here is like, again, whatever anger they're bringing in, whatever like slights they felt against that their son or daughter's had to endure up to this point, and how much they've had to endure, all of a sudden you become that tipping point. It's like, oh my gosh. You know, I none of us are in are in it for that. And so I that's that's the thing, too, is always kind of trying to again walk on eggshells a little bit, especially when you're getting these interactions and try to control that interaction by getting rid of the ambiguity and what what the email is, getting in rid of the ambiguity and what you're saying. And like your parents said, why don't we just talk about the swimming aspect of it? You know, obviously you want to know more about the you know, being invested in their lives has always been part of like a coach's thing, right? But again, I I think right now is a it's a good time to kind of reevaluate that and like listen, this is this is what we're trying to do, and we're just trying to get you faster, and whatever I can do to help out with that is great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I know you got to go here in a second. I know you had a hard stop on this one, so I think we're gonna leave it there. Um, and I am actually, I got a a really exciting thing tomorrow. I think I'm going to the Magic 5 factory, which is my opportunity to bring up. Yes, they've they did they invited me. There's an uh brand new factory. The goggles are actually made here in Denmark, and um so I may be able to go and actually see a pair of goggles get made, um, which I think is really, really cool. These are custom fake goggles, the magic5.com slash the swim brief. Um both Joel and I have a pair of them. I swam in mine uh trying to swim off my travel earlier today. Um they're just great, great goggles. So I'll keep people in the loop about that visit as well. Um and then uh Instagram, Christy underscore coach, CD swim coach on Facebook. Um you can subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Thank you, Joel. Thank you for finding a new time across nine time zones. We've we do and getting a momentum reference in. Yeah, and getting a momental reference in. That's the most important part. Have a great rest of the day. See you guys all next week. Bye bye.