Before we jump into this conversation, a quick word from the guys over at Swim Nerd. Are you looking for a pace clock that won't break the bank? How about one that every swimmer can see? The Swim Nerd pace clock is the most innovative and affordable digital pace clock the world has ever seen. Their nine-inch tall green LEDs are specifically made for outdoor viewing and are visible from 100 meters away. Bluetooth enabled, it connects to your swim practice mobile app, allowing you to program any set your heart desires. Take a minute, go to swimpractice.com and check out their amazing new pace clock. It truly is the world's best swimming pool pace clock. That's swimpractice.com. One more time because I really want you to take a look at this. The pace clock is the most quintessential piece of training equipment for any swim team. Go to swimpractice.com and get yourself the best pace clock in the world. Your swimmers will thank you. After spending the last six years as part of the dramatic revival of the North Carolina State swimming and diving program, has been named the head coach of Auburn. Gary and I go back to the decision to coach at NC State way back when, six years ago, as well as what motivated him to make the big move to a head coaching position in the FEC. Gary also talks about changes to the recruiting landscape, responding to interest in coaching at Auburn and more. Enjoy. Yeah, well, I look, I just appreciate that you still, even though you're really, really big time now, you still answer my text messages and you know you still pick up the phone sometimes when I call. Although, you know, I think you might have been screening me a couple weeks ago. I mean I think I was a little suspicious, Gary. Did how many I I I asked Todd DeSorbo this question. After it was announced. And uh there was a little bit of drama there, but after it was announced how many like phone call, text messages, kind of that type of well-wish, or maybe somebody who would like to be an assistant coach at Auburn, how many of those kind of communications would you estimate you got?
SPEAKER_02Oh man. Well, uh you know, initially with the announcement, uh it put me in a really awkward bind because uh, you know, the assumption was that things were official and and uh I was I was at Auburn and no longer at NC State. So you know, obviously I wanted to be professional to the athlete and the team at at NC State as well as Auburn and and so it it put me in a bind because I I like to be open, honest, transparent.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02And it it it made it really awkward for that. And I think I think, you know, that that first Saturday night, um I started getting texts towards the end of our team banquet and from people that seemed a little bit random to to be texting me about this.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And uh, you know, I I think that night I ended up getting maybe a hundred, hundred and fifty different text messages and throughout the next couple of days. I mean it was it was well into the one hundred. Some of it was, you know, people interested in working at Auburn, some of it was just congratulations, Gary, some of it was, you know, alumni, uh even even athletes here at Auburn reaching out, whether it whether it be, you know, messaging, email, text messages. So it was it was uh it was quite overwhelming, but uh at the same time exciting that uh that many people were excited and and pulling for me. So uh I did the I've done the best I can to get back to everybody because I felt like if they took the time and effort to reach out to me that I should uh you know be be respectful of them as well and and uh you know honored to honor to get back to them too. So it was it was crazy hectic, but uh I think I've I think at this point I've I've just about gotten back to everybody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so uh that brings up an interesting question to me um that I think that a lot of people wonder about, especially in terms of hiring, and and I want to ask you about uh you've already hired some assistant coaches already, and I want to ask you a little bit about that later. But um one thing that I think is really interesting, and this sort of goes in line with recruiting too, um, is what when somebody writes like if it let's I'm assuming you got some messages from people that um even you know even at the outset you knew like okay this is not really a person I'm I'm I'm gonna be considering to be an assistant coach here at Auburn. And but you want to respond to them anyway, right? I mean what kind of response do you give to those people and and how is it similar to like you know, you're at NC State and somebody who goes 49, uh a guy who goes 49 in the hunter freestyle goes, hey, I really want to swim at NC State, and you have to try and write that message back. Like what what kind of message do you send?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, for me, um I I think to be honest with you, Chris, anybody that was willing to reach out and interested in working here at Auburn, I mean, they took the time and effort to give me a message and and and show their interest and excitement. Um I I've I've I think at this point I've literally called everybody by phone and talked with them over the phone because if if you know if you're gonna give me um that kind of interest and excitement, then the least I can do is call back and communicate uh over the phone by voice. So um I I think you know it's it's been really hard. You know, there were some people up front that were interested that I knew I might go a different direction, but that was um that that was the message. It was, hey, you know, thanks so much. I'm humbled, honored that you you'd be interested in working with me. I think at this point I'm I'm looking in a different direction, but you know, maybe in the future our paths cross. So it's not to me, it's not a good idea to burn bridges and and look the other way because you never know who you're doing that to, and just from a professional courtesy standpoint, um that that's that's the way I try to I try to work. So um, you know, I I think moving forward it's gotten a lot harder. I've been as I've said, I've I've or I've I've said to others, um I've been in a situation where I'm I'm really excited about the candidate pool and who's interested in working here with me and the rest of the staff to help build Auburn back into a national power. Uh so I've I've had great people, but the tough part is is what now that Gary Taylor has head coach attached to his name, I have to make ultimate decisions and that means very hard decisions and very hard conversations. So you know, my goal is to be respectful and give him some insight. And uh, you know, I've I've had some people ask, well, well, what did I not do or or or uh you know, why is it me and or why is it not me? And um, you know, sometimes it's just it it's a gut feel um and and and what I'm looking for and um you know ultimately just the best fit and and it's not always an easy, simple answer. So I've I've had a number of those, but uh you know, it it's important to me that I get back and communicate and handle them in a respectful manner because you know they it tried to show me time and attention and interest. So that that's that's important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I wanna I I I think there's a lot of value in in what you just said. I mean especially in the sense that, you know, I found back in the day when I was doing college recruiting that there was a lot of value in responding to communications from kids that you weren't interested in recruiting. I'd often try to suggest somewhere else that they might look. Um because I I I just thought like, okay, first off, it's the right thing to do. Second off, you know, this kid maybe is gonna talk to somebody else who I am interested in recruiting later. And I hope that they say, you know, Chris is a good guy and he helped me out anyway, even though he wasn't interested in recruiting me there. Um I think you've got uh one of the things you've got going for you is is a lot of people think you're a good guy. Like probably a lot more people than than think I'm a good guy. Um uh think that think that you're a good guy.
SPEAKER_02I know you well enough.
SPEAKER_00It's because of all the it's because of all the the uh blog posts. You don't write any blog posts where you let out your uh inner id, Gary. But if you did that, you know, more people would know.
SPEAKER_01Well well certainly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um Go ahead. Yeah. So I wanna let's go back in time. Uh one one job change ago, because I think this is really interesting. Uh one when you and I met, you were an assistant coach at Florida State University. And uh I wrote in a blog today kind of previewing this podcast, I said you were the best pool side conversation in the league. Um that's why I liked you. Um always always something to chat about. But I want talk talk to me a little bit about the decision to go from one ACC school to another in in a sort of an assistant coaching role. Um, because I think, you know, with hindsight, everybody can look at that decision and go, wow, what a great decision. You know, NC State is a premier program and this and that and the other thing. But a lot of people probably don't realize this was sort of one year into Braden coaching at NC State, and at that point, Florida State was finishing significantly higher in the ACC than NC State. What what went into that decision to to make that move uh way back when?
SPEAKER_02Oh well certainly. I mean it was it was uh really several things. Um, you know, I I had a great opportunity at Florida State and uh you know the experience to work there with with uh you know outstanding people. Neil is our leader. Uh it's something I'm really grateful for. Uh I I think moving forward, I think for me, I you know, my wife needed some more opportunities for her career. Uh Tallahassee didn't offer that uh as much as Raleigh did. Raleigh's a uh you know, obviously a booming area, so from that standpoint, you know, she was gonna have more options. I think for me. Um you know, I I I maybe needed a little bit of a a change of pace as well. And and I would tell you, um, you know, I I you know Braden will probably tell most people this, but you know, I think when he initially tired uh hired Todd and and hired me, I don't think the first answer out of our mouths was yes, we're gonna be there with you. It was a little bit of coaxing. Uh but uh but I'll tell you, when uh when we when I went for the interview and and sat down with the rest of the staff, I saw um maybe different versions of myself. I loved the way they talked, I loved their goals, the future that they saw, and and I felt like I immediately connected. And when I left the interview, uh, you know, I I I even said to my wife at the time, I'm like, you know, we're we're gonna win. I I d I don't know why. I don't know why I had that premonition or feeling, but I felt like we were gonna win at a very high level. And and I was so confident in that. And and initially, you're right, a lot of people said, Well, you know, NC State, well that's obvious now. Well, not back then. There were a lot of people that hey, congrats on the new job, but you know, why in the world would you leave Florida State for NC State?
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02You know, why would you do this? It almost seems like a a backwards move. And and I remember you know, one of my first conversations out recruiting for NC State um was uh w was with another ACC coach and and uh you know th they asked me, they said, Well, you know, you did some good things in Florida State, now you're NC State, but but why? You guys were you guys had it rolling and I said I said, you know, uh um I'm excited about the staff, I'm excited about where we're going and and we're gonna win in the future. And and uh this person kind of said, Oh yeah, you know, they they won some dual meets this year and I said, No, no, no, we're gonna win championships in the future and I and I really believe that. Now you know, looking back on it, hindsight being twenty twenty, did I see it going where it it went? I don't know to that level, but I really felt like when we went, just based on the staff, the way we spoke, the way we communicated, what we talked about, what we valued, just the inner drive. I really did see NC State winning championships at the ACC level and becoming a a a a really good program. Now, top five, I I don't know about that, but uh I I just I I felt the chemistry, the connection, and we all valued and worked at the same level. And that was really exciting to me. So um, you know, that that was that was a big reason for it. So it was, you know, certainly certainly the the family piece as well, but also the opportunity to to work with young people who were hungry and and ready and raring to go. So it was a hard decision because Florida State would have been good to me. And um, you know, I had a great opportunity with with Neil and uh Andy and you know, Trisha and Zat were there at the time and Pat Jeffrey. I mean it was it was a good staff and and we had done some good things, but uh it just felt right inside to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh I'm interested about one part of it. I think you know, you speak really well to the sense that you you walked away from that interview and you had a sense of what was gonna happen. I'm wondering, was there one thing or a series of things that, you know, once you sort of got into the weeds coaching at NC State where you were like really surprised, like, wow, I was not expecting that, or I wasn't, you know, when when you guys sort of got up into that NCA top five level with the men, you were like, uh-huh, that that's what this is like. Um were there things like that?
SPEAKER_02You know, I I don't know. I mean, certainly there were individual performances over the last six years that you know, every now and again we we'd have that jaw dropping performance from someone that you you you didn't I don't know that you didn't expect it that maybe they went above and beyond.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um you know, once we got on a roll, Chris, I I don't know that anything really ever surprised any of us. Now we were excited about the outcome, yeah, but that's what we talked about. So you know, we didn't it wasn't like um you know, you know, I I think um you know, early on it was like how are we gonna win a championship? Well, we're gonna win this relay, we're gonna go after that relay, this is what we need to develop, here's here's how we can win ACC. So it was something we talked about all the time. So when it ultimately happened, you were really excited, but never never shocked because that was a constant thought process. So um, you know, th there might have been uh I think there were really um you know, big moments, obviously the first ACC championship, um, you know, we i the eight hundred free relay I go back to the end of my my first season there when uh one of our guys jumped in the water, but uh um and then we got DQ'd. But but that's something they that we talked about for eight months leading into the meet or six months. So um that that was the goal. And and I think, you know, um even even relay national titles or individual national titles, those were things that we talked about. So it was never it was never shocking. It was just when he when he accomplished it, it was pure elation and it was a lot of fun. And um I would say with that staff, uh I think sometimes we actually struggled a little bit uh living in the moment because we were always so uh future driven, like, okay, well this is awesome, how do we get better? Um I I you know, maybe the one moment. Um, you know, Ryan Held making the US Olympic team was awesome. Yeah, but that's something we had talked about for a year as well. So it wasn't, you know, it was an awesome moment, but it wasn't a moment where it it hadn't been thought about. It'd been talked about numerous times prior to it happening. So um I I know that's kind of an odd thing to say, but um I think the expectations and goals were laid out on a regular basis. So when it was accomplished, that was just kind of like, well, this is just what we're gonna do. And now let's move forward. What's the next goal?
SPEAKER_00Okay, I want to ask you about recruiting, because I think especially with sort of recent developments, this is something that a lot of people are pretty curious about. But I wonder if you could say, I mean, uh definitely the backbone of any good college swim program is you do well in recruiting. Um and there was definitely a shift there at NC State in terms of uh, I think when you when you started there, the quality of incoming athlete that you got versus the the end. Um two questions. One, you know, what did you see change uh over six years sort of uh internally in terms of what you guys uh could do in recruiting? And then what have you seen change more in the global sense? Like we've just had this uh, as I referenced this NCAA rule change for the recruiting season, and I've been talking to uh a bunch of college coaches off off the recording about it, but I'm interested to hear your take um sort of more globally where things are going recruiting wise.
SPEAKER_02Certainly. I think you know, NC State the biggest change uh over five or six years was you know, you know, initially you had to sell the vision to dreamers. Yeah so we had a vision, we knew where we wanted to go, but but there was nothing to buy into in terms of accomplishments, you know, in the first one, two, three years. Um so so you had to sell the vision to dreamers who believed in what you were saying, were excited, uh, and wanted to be a part of something different and special. And so I and then over time, obviously as the program got better, got stronger, you had more elite athletes uh start to look at the program who who were bought in because I didn't go to NC State and I know I can swim fast. Uh and I want to be a part of that championship culture. So um I I really think uh, you know, we we certainly have some some great when women join us, uh the graduating class of 2017 was that way. I think on the men's side. Uh we'd had some really good classes and good people prior to that, but uh I I think about, you know, the graduating seniors this year, Hennessy Stewart, Ryan Held, uh Anton, um and and several others that um you know really really kind of put us on the map. And then after that, you win the first ACC title, you win it again, and so now they're able to recruit at a different level. Uh I don't I don't want to say it's on the lines of a of a Texas or a Cal, but you know that's that's who you're competing with uh for for top end recruits. Um or or uh that that's where you want your program to go. If you if you're having to compete against Eddie in Texas for recruits, you know you're probably doing something really well. Um, you know, if you're if you're competing against, you know, Cal, Georgia, um, you know, Texas and and and several others on the women's side, you know you're doing some good things and recruiting uh great athletes. Um I think in terms of this this day and age, um you know, I I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not in love with the rule changes, but but but I am in love with with being competitive and getting better. And and what does that mean to me? Well, I you know, I I think um you know I I don't I don't think this is this is helping the coach uh the the the the coaches uh family life because now you're gonna be recruiting nonstop all the time or or I or at least I think that's where it's going.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so you you get done with one class, you're already looking for the next. And and um so I think that limits your time, you've gotta be really good at community. communication and responses. Um and so I think if you're going to be aggressive and and accomplish some things in recruiting, it's just never done. It's it's never you can't ever really walk away from it. You've got to be assessing video, talking to coaches, getting in touch with the with the athletes. And now we're going to be able to host them as j as juniors. But you still got some that want to take time and go to their senior years. So it it's just it's not going to ever finish. And not that it ever did before, but there was there were some roles where it got easier.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02I don't know that I that I'm in love with it, but that's that's uh that's the sign of the times. I mean it it changes and in order to be competitive uh y you either change and learn to adapt or you get left behind. And so my responsibility here at Auburn is to is to change with the times and uh be committed to to doing the hard uh legwork there as well or um you know ultimately if we're going to win championships at Auburn uh and and those are my goals um we're going to have to do that. So you know um am I in love with it? No. But I also enjoy winning and uh you know building a championship culture and mentality and in order to do that you've got to put the work in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah I think you know the the the the sort of most positive perspective I've heard on it is the fact that you know recruiting effectively especially for some of the higher end schools had already pushed into junior year so this was more just formalizing it, you know I mean that's like um uh they were they had to kind of move the boundaries because of the stuff that had changed. And I can definitely see that perspective. But I also see what you're saying where um this kind of creep of uh a longer recruiting season and um official visits with juniors. I mean um the whole thing it it doesn't seem to be in anyone's real best interest to you know decide two years before um where you're gonna go to college. I don't know. Uh that's uh that's sort of my perspective. I don't think it's really in the best interest of the kids or the best interest of the schools because so much can change over that time. And like you know if you're if you're especially like when I was recruiting at Georgia Tech we had a very sort of we had a very limited set of studies. I can't imagine asking like a 15 or 16 year old like do you want to do engineering? Like how is that how are they supposed to know? That kind of question.
SPEAKER_02I mean I I totally agree with that. So it's it's on us as coaches to do again the legwork. Yeah I think we're gonna have to be more privy to who they are as people, what they're doing in the water and and just communicate. So um I I I I very much agree because as we all know someone who's a you know at the end of their sophomore year, early junior year, that can look a lot different over the course of two or three years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So and and then the thing that scares me the most about it uh and I certainly saw this at NC State and I I felt like we did a good job at Florida State as well, how many people are you gonna overlook who are those diamonds in the rough you know certainly on the on the male side who grow and get strong and become more coordinated and and you know and and don't maybe pop until the end of their junior or senior year. Um you know that that's that's a concern as well because um you know some some of those guys are the ones that NC State and Florida State that uh performed really, really well and and ultimately became great team players who who um you know without them we wouldn't have had the success that we did. So uh that that's also a concern too. So it it'll be different. I mean again you've got to change with the times but I think as things move forward um you know people start to figure things out and and um you know manage and try to find the best way to recruit and that's that's on us now that the rules are changing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So one of the things I want to ask you about too is it's sort of in line with what you're talking about and it's it's about uh athlete development and I'm gonna pay you a compliment here. You you could you're gonna have to you know do your best to accept it. So you know uh one of the things I always really admired about you was just overall the swimmers that you were coaching and the development. You know I think you probably are getting some attention for coaching Anton Ibsen and he won an NCAA title and he's definitely somebody that got better as good as he was coming in. He he he developed every year and got better. But I think you know actually one of the most popular blog posts I ever wrote was something that was called like you know five athletes that proved that NC State is killing it. And I tried to find you know talk about some some guys that you had on your team all of you coaches there at NC State that you know people weren't really talking about but like the improvement that they'd had was amazing. And I think if I can look back on that blog post I have I don't have it right in front of me but I wrote something about uh Adam Linker you know who was a guy who who came into college and um he was sort of like a really really a borderline recruit and he ended up going to swim at NCAAs. What give give us like and I've often teased you about your magic wand that you use to make swimmers faster but um give us just like a little bit I know but just give us like for the people listening just give a little bit of your secret sauce. Like what is it? What is it you do in terms of development and how um how do you get good improvement out of an Anton Ibsen and an Adam Linker.
SPEAKER_02Oh man um I I would say that that question is so deep um it would be hard to to to give an answer in just a couple of minutes but you know at the end of the day you you work in developed people and connect with your athletes so you have to understand what makes them tick and what allows them to thrive. You know so so um putting them in a situation where the coach believes in them is pushing them every day to be elite uh or raising the bar of expectations and just not allowing for less I think is a big part of it. You know I I mean everybody wants to know about training this, training that well you know there's something to be said for people that are that that that um that are motivated hardworking and have a desire to be the best they can be. So I I really think that was that was a big part of it. Just the culture, uh what we were trying to do on a daily basis was was forcing everybody out of their comfort zone and to think at the their very highest possible levels. So uh and then getting to know your athletes and and again know know what makes them pick. And certainly we had you know I look back um and there were certainly uh failures with both of the guys that you just mentioned and I don't mean like they failed catastrophically but it were things they could work on. I felt like coming into Anton senior year um I knew that he was an incredible swimmer but but it was giving him the added bit of confidence and and I think some of that just continuing day after day to instill in him that you're elite, you're you're one of the best we're gonna we're gonna do some training that's gonna allow you to see that you're the best. Um I I think Adam was a little bit different. Um you know Adam was certainly had some talent but uh I also think Adam just outworked other people. So it was giving him work that that had a purpose to it, getting him to believe that he could be elite and then you know that that's uh something as a coach that that you're extremely proud of to see people accomplish things that that they didn't think they could accomplish. Those are some of my favorite moments. So you know I I think it's uh from my standpoint it's it's raising the bar of expectations, um teaching these people, teaching them about swimming but but more importantly or as importantly if not more so about themselves, getting to work at a high level every day and then uh giving them the confidence to believe that they can achieve at at levels that maybe they didn't think were possible. And then from the athlete standpoint it's a willingness to communicate and be coachable. Uh it's giving a hundred a hundred and ten percent getting outside your comfort zone, uh which is really important swimming I think and and just life in general. And then just them them having that drive to be their most elite self. And I think if you do that in a uh and I talk about this all the time, if you do it in a family atmosphere where people love and respect one another, that's that's how you reach great heights. Just uh you know, I mean so much of it comes down to the athletes knowing that you care about them as people uh as much as you do uh about them as as swimmers. And so um you know you you want that you want that connection and and you want them to know that man you you're gonna be tough on them at times and you're gonna have fun with them at times but at the end of the day you're always doing what what you feel is in the the uh athletes and the program's best interest. So I I know that's a little bit basic um but but I really think sometimes you know you talked about the magic wand like people want these magic uh beans. Well well it's not magic. It's just a lot of hard work and and people buying into the culture and and high level of expectation and and I think that's hard for people to hear sometimes because okay well that that seems so basic. Well I I think that's it is pretty basic but doing it on a daily basis is what makes it really hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well don't worry I've got a tougher follow-up for you uh specifically specifically about Anton and um you know I was in Denmark when he made the decision to commit to NC State and this is not me tooting my own horn I mean I had a conversation with him about it and I think you were did a tremendous job recruiting there. He was he was definitely um he was definitely very interested in you guys and you guys had started to recruit some zombers from Denmark and that that itself generated a lot of that interest and um you know but I I think that even at the time he he had some conflicts in his mind about the decision. But he made the decision to go to NC State and I remember uh you know he came back the next summer and I had given him you know the slightest nudge to go there. That's all I'll give myself uh credit for. And he said you know Chris you just did that you're just doing a favor for your friend Gary and I said no I really think this was the right decision for you. This was the right decision to make and he was he sort of smirked at me and and I bring that story up just because I think from the outside people probably look at it and go like oh man you know he just got this really talented kid from Denmark and he trained him and then he swam really fast. But I wonder if you could speak to you know the challenge of coaching somebody who comes from you know a very different culture, a very different uh upbringing gaining their trust um because uh then I saw you guys a whole summer later and it was like night and day. He you know Anton walked right up to me and said yeah you were right I made the right decision. So I wonder if you could give a little insight into that.
SPEAKER_02Well certainly I mean it comes back down to personalities again and and and getting to know your athletes so you know Anton's Anton is is like a lot of athletes and a lot of people in general change is hard. Um change is not easy. Change is sometimes scary or it can make you make you nervous. And so I think for him you know he had questions. Well I'm I'm here in Denmark it's working well for me. Um why why would I change? But oh my goodness there's an opportunity in the US I've got other teammates that are there and I think he was really conflicted because he was performing well. Yeah and and and um you know w why i if if if it ain't broke don't fix it, you know, so so to speak. And so you know we connected uh quite a bit throughout his entire final year in Denmark prior to getting here and um and and so I I tried to you know talk to him about training, talk to him about life, what did he look for and what did he want and and I think um you know I I think once he arrived he did some things really well. You could see how special he was as a swimmer. Um obviously you could see the talent he would do things in work out but um you know I think it was a struggle his first year because I was asking him to do things that I don't think quite frankly he wanted to do. Um and and it was just getting him to understand that I was working to help him be the best he could be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And unfortunately he had some set some success his freshman year. Uh but but I knew there was more in the tank. And then uh you know his sophomore year, you know we talked because at the end of the sophomore year it was twenty sixteen his goal was to make the Danish Olympic team and and represent his country in the Olympics. That was always a big deal for him and and continues uh still to this day and and I said look you know he's like Well what if I what if I do everything that that uh you asked me to do and and it doesn't work out and I said well I'd rather fail than walk away You know there there's a difference between failure and quitting. Failure means you gave it everything you had and it didn't quite go the way you wanted so you can learn from it you know and and um and and and giving up and not trying just means you didn't prepare yourself. So then it's just allowing for excuses. And I I think sometimes with athletes um it it's really getting them to uh believe in themselves. I think a lot of times when they don't when they're scared to buy in or they're nervous about training it it can be on the coach but sometimes I think it's internal. They don't have the confidence and it's you know if if there's one thing I know about Anton, he's a he's a perfectionist. I mean he's a 4.0 in industrial engineering um you know he he's he's a great swimmer. I mean he's elite in a lot of different areas. So I think sometimes if you really put yourself out there and and totally trust and believe you become vulnerable and that's hard for people. And I think I said look we're gonna do everything you you we can to help you make the Danish Olympic team and I'm like, you know I if it were me and that's part of the reason I'm here at Auburn, if it were me I'd rather give it my all and compete against the best and know that I'm ready to go rather than going in halfway and saying oh it didn't work out and I'm like then then you live with regret. So um you know he really bought in and I will never forget this. Uh probably as long as I live and thinking about it now even makes me emotional but you know you you were there at the meeting Denmark when he made the Olympic team and Yep um you know I r I remember him talking to me at the end of warm up and and saying and looking at me and he's like what if I'm not good enough um t to do this and I looked at him and I said I have the utmost confidence in you and I know you've you've you're better prepared than you've ever been before to make this team and have a great performance and I'm like you know no fear. You're going into this you know how to race you can get this done and and it kind of almost calmed him down a little bit and then he got up and and uh you know ended up performing and and making the Olympics and and it was awesome to see how happy he was in that moment and how happy his team uh was for him as well back at home and that's that was awesome. And then after that it just continued to roll. But uh even the last couple of years there were things that we had to work on and you know I think he he trusted and he was willing to be again vulnerable and allowed me to coach him and and uh you know we we've built a a tremendous relationship and uh I think very highly of him as a person and an athlete and and uh want him to be successful because he puts in the work and deserves it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I thought you made a great reference in there that to segue into the next thing I wanted to talk to you about and that was you talked about your own desire to get out there and compete at the highest level and that had something to do with this uh move you've made now to be the head coach of Auburn. Um and I also saw in some other stuff that you were talking about you know uh what you were looking for in assistant coaches and one of the most important criteria w for you was you know somebody who really wanted to coach there. What what made you really want to coach at Auburn?
SPEAKER_02Well I think for me um you know I just I understand the SEC uh way of life the traditions I know how much athletics means to people uh within the Southeastern Conference um you know I grew up in a in what I would consider an SEC family so I understood that uh you know for me I've always wanted to compete against the best whether it be coaches or athletes the best programs and and put myself up uh uh up against that uh that that's what I strive to be professionally. So uh you know it it's been a a longtime dream of mine to be a head coach of the SEC and and certainly when you think of uh opportunities and and uh chances to to to go up against the best and and develop a program, Alburn has to be at the forefront of that. So uh you know that that's it. You know I I want to go up against the best in uh in in in terms of uh NCAA swimming and the best in the world and you put yourself up against those people and and see how things shake out. So uh it's certainly not something I I've had a lot of people ask me if I'm nervous and I I'm I'm you know I'm I'm excited for the future and and certainly I want things to go well but there's no part of me that's that's nervous. I mean I'm I feel like I'm ready to take this on and it's something that I've wanted and how can you walk away from something um that you've wanted when it's staring you in the face. So um I I think from that that standpoint um I mean just Auburn Auburn Auburn checked a lot of things off the list for me. So uh why not? And then and then beyond that just the culture in the athletic department uh the way the athletic director spoke um you know the the opportunities here uh are outstanding. So it it's it's an exciting challenge and I'm looking to take that head on. And so uh even to go into the assistance I I mean I really want to surround myself with hardworking people who are smart from a coaching standpoint who are personable who are outgoing uh who can help us win championships and you know I I've said this from day one I want to surround myself with four future head coaches and and so um you know some somebody said to me well why would you do that? Because in three to five years they could be gone. And I said well uh hopefully I'm still here that means that they're doing a really good job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But uh but I said you know like that's that's what should happen. So if we're doing what we should do um and and we're performing well then then people will take notice. Uh and that's important to me. I want to collaborate with the staff and I want to put myself around people who are as smart or really smarter than I am so uh I can take credit for all their great ideas.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01That's a difference.
SPEAKER_02But uh but but that's I want you would that are going to push me to be great. Yeah. I know uh I want people around me that are that are gonna push uh this program to be outstanding. Uh you know we've made two hires I think uh uh I'm not gonna give any hints away but but you may see some others come across here real soon. Okay and and so what I think I've hired are people that are knowledgeable, hard working, hard work because that's what it's gonna take to get Auburn back. Uh people that are excited about the university. I'm drawn to people that are uh drawn to me that that want to be a part of this program and so um I I've been very fortunate that to talk with a lot of people uh who share that similarity and so um I I'm excited I really am I I couldn't be more thrilled to be here and I think Auburn has a bright future we're gonna have to work hard to get our hands dirty but um I'm putting together uh staff that I think is ready to do that understands the challenge ahead.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So in in that vein one of the things I want to ask you about because I think this is also sort of a little sneaky thing that happened at NC State and you weren't there during the first year of NC State as as we covered but one of the things that um the staff at NC State did really well that I think will definitely come up for you um there at Auburn And I'll be interested to hear what you're thinking about doing in regards to it is you're going to um you're coming into a new program and you're inevitably going to run into athletes, you know, like you've got incoming freshmen who committed thinking that Brett Hawk and Sergio Lopez and some of the other assistant coaches were going to be their coaches. So you've got that set. And then you've got a set of swimmers who swam really well last year and feel really good about um even the coaches that are outgoing. How do you approach that? How do you look to keep that going at the same time, you know, as you recognize, as you referenced earlier with Anton, like, you know, change is hard, and change is going to be hard for a lot of those people. Um what's your what's your approach there?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think that's a that's a that's a hard question, but one I've I've pondered over and over again. I think anytime there's change again, uh, and this is change that they didn't necessarily ask for. So uh I think that's that that hits them a little bit in the heart, and that's that's tough. So it it's one thing, you know, Anton was leaping out and making the decision to come here. This is not a decision uh nor a choice that a lot of these athletes have. It wasn't up to them. So they're they're in the middle of it. And I think I think really uh ultimately it comes down to one one or one or two things, and I think it's connecting with them on on a personal human level and and allowing them to understand that I really am here uh in in their best interests and I want to see them successful. And I think, you know, I you know, not everybody may be in love with the training, but I think at the end of the day, if they can walk away from the pool deck and know that this staff is working hard and working hard to develop them as as swimmers, but more importantly, people, and that we care about them and we want what's best for 'em, I think that goes a long way. You know, I I think that's important. When you when you think that you're just another number and um you know, you're not important or you're only important when you perform well, I I think that's that's a message that that people are gonna have a hard time embracing. Uh if you let people know that that they're valued for who they are and what they bring to the table, whether they're the fastest or you know, whether they're fast or they're the fastest. Uh doesn't really matter. Um, you know, to me it's it's it's the you know, the ability to to learn, educate, um, you know, that that hard work, the effort, and then they they're striving to be the best they can be. I I can embrace that and I've told them that and I said, Look, um, you know, if if you give me effort and work, I'll I'll I'll meet you in the middle and go past that. But you've got to be willing to to open up and and embrace me as well. Uh but if you do that, the staff's gonna work uh really hard for you and and and allow you to understand that that working we're we're looking out for your your your uh personal interests as well. So I think that's it. Um just getting them to know that I'm here for the right reasons, that staff will be here for the right reasons, and looking to develop great people, and I think if you do that and develop that type of a culture, then the swimming will take care of itself. That'll come that'll come with it.
SPEAKER_00So one last question that I that I had on my list. And then it it goes back to the assistant coaches um that you know, when you're building a coaching staff, you know, I think uh you you you uh gave some good criteria for why you've added the people you've already had and what and what you're looking for when you're adding other people. But I I I want to zero in on something very specific. One of the things that I always hear uh from from head coaches when they're building a coaching staff is they're looking for people with strengths that are different from theirs. So I wonder like what kind of strengths are you looking for? Maybe I mean even what do you consider your own strengths? And then uh when you're when you're adding other people, like what what are some strengths that you end up looking for in them?
SPEAKER_02You know, that's that's uh that that is a really interesting question. Um I I think for me, I you know, I really value or I I'd like to think, and I don't know what people think of me, but I I would like to say um, you know, I care about people, I want to teach. Uh again, I keep saying this, hard work, and and I want to be the best I can be. So I think I want to surround myself with that, certainly from a coaching standpoint and even the athletic, the athlete standpoint. Um, but but you know, it it's it's similar to what I said when I look back at NC State. You know, Todd, Braden, myself, Bobby, Mallory, you know, Yahya, um, and and there's been others on staff as well. Uh Brant, now I think we're all different in terms of what we brought to the table. There were some things that we brought to the table that weren't um exactly the same, but but overall our goals and our drive were very similar. So you know, from that standpoint, I I want people that are similar in terms of the ability to to teach, the ability to work hard, and and they want to help Arbor be great. So that's number one. I need I need similar people uh from that mindset uh in order to help me. But you know, I I do think um I I do think that the people I'm talking to uh also bring some different things to the table. I'll be the first to tell you, and this has obviously been the biggest question since I've been hired. Well, who's the sprint coach going to be? Auburn's a sprint program. We do this, we do that. I said, I said, look, in order for us to win, we need to be a great program, we need to be a great team. So I want people um, you know, who have that certainly I think the sprint hires are very important. Uh I think for for the athlete's comfort level, because I can tell you some people have said, oh man, he's a distance coach, we're all gonna do the mile. Well, that's uh I'd like I'd like to take some credit in that. Um I may look stupid, but I'm not that dumb. So um so I you know I I definitely need help and and that that to me, um do I think I can coach sprint? Yes, but I think there are people out there that are gonna be more passionate and do a better job. So uh that that's certainly important to me. Um I I think uh, you know, with the hires that I've got, uh Duncan, I think he's been a head coach before, so he's gonna have some different ideas and the different uh you know, different ways to look at things. Michael Joyce is uh I think really wise beyond his years, very hardworking, very energetic. And I think he's a little bit, you know, he's in his late twenties, and I think he's a little bit more in tune to the kids of today. So I think that's a different mindset. You know, when Braden uh you know, and the staff and and Braden made those hires six, seven years ago, you know, we're all, you know, as much as I say this, we're all getting old. So What?
SPEAKER_00No, you're getting older. I'm still I'm still young.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So so I think when you look at that staff, I mean we're all under thirty-five. Well now we're I'm I'm getting towards forty. I'll be forty in August. So having some younger people on staff who who really are personable and connect with the with the athletes of today, that's important. So Mike brings that and I would tell you that the other people uh that that I'm seriously thinking about. Um I've I've got some tremendous sprint minds uh who are interested and who have s had success on that end, which I kinda just gave away one of my potential hires because I think everybody thought it was you know, Duncan and Mike with the sprint guys, but uh that that's not exactly the case. Um so I I've got some uh spoilers, but spoilers. Yeah, so that's that's early alert. But uh you know, but but even on the women's side, um, you know, I I want I want that that uh you know I want somebody who brings new ideas to the table and uh you know I've I've uh I and you know I understand the SEC conference, but um you know I've I've never been in the conference as a competitor as a coach. So uh making some hires that understand that as well is in is important to me. So um I I definitely think that everybody I'm interviewing is very like-minded in terms of outcomes and what we want, but they each bring something a little bit different to the table. Um but but I still think uh you know, I want people that are energetic, outgoing, and excited and and willing to do work. So uh that that's key for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, Gary, you have been incredibly uh forthright here. And without you see, you still find a way to be honest without coming off like a dick, like me. I don't know how you do that, but I'm gonna have to keep learning from you.
SPEAKER_01Um thank you.
SPEAKER_00Seriously, but uh uh I think this will be really great for people here. Um I'm definitely gonna be a big fan of Auburn this upcoming year. I want to see how you guys do and uh how things keep going, and and uh I'm looking forward to uh seeing who's on that coaching staff. Thanks, Gary.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity and and uh hopefully we'll give you a lot to cheer about. So that that's my goal at this point. So I I really appreciate the support. Thanks for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Thanks so much to Gary. I think for sure there are a lot of people that have met you that will be cheering for Auburn this coming year, and maybe even some people that listen to this. For more great swimming conversations, go to Chris Dcoach.com. That's C H R I S D as in Desantis Coach.com. You can also find me at Chris DeSantis Coaching on Facebook. Read some of my posts. I got a post up this week about how I construct a one hour practice. A lot of people seem to like that, respond to it, have some comments on that. So keep sending those my way and see you next week.