Special 1000 Follower Solobrief

Celebrating 1000 followers on instagram by taking listener questions. Want to have your question answered on the pod? Listen to the end of the pod for instructions!

Special 1000 Follower Solobrief Chris DeSantis

Transcript

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Hello, and welcome to the swim brief. I'm Chris DeSantis, and today on the Swim Brief, we're doing a solo brief. And that is one where I go deep on a topic or a set of topics. There's no guest, it's just me here in the studio talking at length about something. And something that uh I think will help the people who listen to this podcast, many of you are coaches, leaders, people around sport, to be better and create better environments where they are, level yourself up. And today we are celebrating a little bit of a milestone in Chris DeSantis coaching, and that is I have gotten over 1,000 followers on Instagram. Now, frequent listeners know that I often, you know, have a almost antagonistic relationship with social media platforms. Maybe I'll explain that for a minute as I start off, because it you know might be a bit contradictory to celebrating something like that. But I am genuinely happy that there are more and more people following, and and part of that has to do with my strategy. So maybe I'll I'll I'll talk about my philosophy around social media and how that informs my strategy and how I engage on social media. And then beyond that, I got some questions from listeners that I want to answer and get to. Um, I solicited questions as part of that for a solo mailbag podcast. So we're gonna get to some of your listener questions after I wax poetic about my social media uh thoughts and and strategy. So one of the reasons why I talk about social media the way that I do is because in many ways a lot of these platforms are sort of antithetical to what I'm trying to accomplish. One of the reasons why I have this podcast is because it gives me the ability to talk to others and to delve into topics at length in context and really provide, I think, what is the bare minimum, honestly, of information that somebody on the other side should have if they really want to start to engage with these ideas. What I find with social media platforms, TikTok, Instagram, are probably sort of the two of the biggest ones right now. I'm not on TikTok. I don't think you'll see me on TikTok. If you ever see me on TikTok, it's probably means somebody else is creating a TikTok for me, which I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be opposed to, but for me it's primarily on Instagram. And, you know, if you've been on that platform, you know that it heavily, heavily fature, you know, favors short form content. Or, you know, like in the in the field where I am, you know, the sort of sports psychology mental coaching consultant field, you know, maybe you get like a kind of a slideshow and a few slides. I think all of this short form content and sort of, you know, little slides that you're gonna read on your phone present an illusion of giving information when the information that you get there is almost useless without context. So if you go on, you'll see that um I made an attempt at the beginning of my Instagram account to try to share some useful information. Frankly, I just a lot of the stuff I see out there, I maybe it's me. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to present usable information to people because for everything, right? Everything that I might suggest from a sports psychology perspective, there's so much context into the decision making. So it's not as if you can make like a definitive recommendation to people and say, oh, just you know, in this situation, do this. No, there's like 10 other factors involved. And so if people listen to this podcast, you'll see that I'm always trying to delve kind of a layer deeper and figure out structurally how people come to decisions, not even necessarily what decisions do they come to in the end, but what is their underlying process for it? Because I think that those processes tell you everything about the sort of underlying assumptions, beliefs, etc., that really stack up to the decisions on the end. And to me, that's what's really interesting. Um, so philosophically, you know, don't look at social media in that context and in the Instagram context, even though I am on Instagram, as something that is going to really advance what I'm doing. And I purposely do not do things that would probably drive more, drive more eyeballs to what I'm doing. And that is, I uh if you're listening to this, I know that is foolish on some level. I know that there is a way at which I could, you know, for lack of a better term, sell out and go a little harder, and you'd say it's worth it because, you know, the quality of information that you're drawing people into on the other end is worth, you know, doing some of this kind of low quality, attention-grabbing stuff to get it. I've made the calculation, I'm comfortable where I am with that stuff. And I guess that's when you're wondering why I might be celebrating this milestone. I know that I have not chased virality, that I have not chased just sort of pure drawing attention to what I'm doing. I'm pretty uncompromising about the quality of information giving on the other end. And quite frankly, I think that is why a lot of people listen to this podcast, because it's it's a podcast for people who want to be more knowledgeable, more intelligent, more thoughtful about what they're doing. And that's something I'm not willing to compromise on. And and, you know, quite frankly, I get a lot more people that listen to this podcast than follow me on Instagram, which says everything about, you know, I think a lot of the assumptions people make about, you know, short form content and it's um and people's attention spans and the appeal of all that stuff. I think it is probably true that, you know, if you just compare like raw stuff, you can get more technical, you know, eyeball count on some short stuff. But is it is it of any quality? I guess is always the question I come back to. And so that's where I'm striving for. And I feel I haven't compromised on that, so I am proud to have a modestly good social media following, nonetheless. All right, let's get into some of your questions. That's enough of me going on about this stuff. The first one that I want to get to, this is from Anthony in New York. Anthony, are you in New York? Anthony Prata. For those of you who don't know him, he is such a dork. I hope you don't mind me saying that, Anthony. He is, but he's somebody who like only Anthony would ask a question like this. And I love I love that Anthony is a listener to the podcast because this is the kind of question I want to get. I mean, I like I love all these questions, but this is, you know, I I I don't know that many people that would ask this question. So Anthony's asking me basically, what about breakpoint volume? This is a concept by Bill Sweetenham and Dr. Ralph Richards, you know, and he he's asking about it in the context of what he says, I think he said the ongoing volume wars. You know, this is again a kind of a thing that I think gets discussed with zero nuance. And uh I found that out firsthand by actually trying to engage on Instagram with somebody who was just talking crap about volume and and training. If you miss that, you know, don't go back and look and try to find it. Um I think when you actually get real coaches, people that are really working with athletes in the in and competing, they can have quite a thoughtful conversation about that. And so I'm I'm grateful for this question. And you know what? I'm I'm realizing, you know, Anthony sent this in just before I released a podcast with a Danish sports psychologist. And there's really kind of a conflict between, I think, some of what that sports psychologist is talking about and what Sweetenham is advocating for in here. Um and so I'm gonna read a little bit of this paper by Richards and Sweetham on breakpoint volume, because I I, you know, I'm gonna paraphrase a little bit about it, but I think it's important for you to hear them in their own words describe it. And so here we go. So what is breakpoint volume? It is optimum volume performed at optimum skill level, achieved through participation in a maximum number of training sessions at controlled intensities, the training volume achieved at the end of the maturation period. So they're they're targeting this towards essentially not like the beginning of a uh an athlete's career and not their quote unquote senior career, which in this context is a lot of like 15 and up, but like those sort of like puberty years, right? Just just before puberty and into puberty years of an athlete's life. That was my that was my parenth parenthetical. Let me get back to the uh quote. Be the training volume an athlete will maintain for the remainder of his her swimming career. It is also my belief that an athlete's future ability to handle intensive training situations, i.e., a combination of high performance training volume and intensity, is largely determined by his her recovery profile. The ability to absorb and adapt to training is largely acquired during the learn to stage, learn to train stages of one's career. There are several important training relationships that count, i.e., make a difference in the effectiveness in the program. Okay. So then they're going to go on to talk about some of the things. Essentially, what Sweetenham is talking about here, and if you don't know who Bill Sweetenham is, he's an Australian swim coach. Probably uh in, you know, one of the things he's most well known for was he he came over to Britain for a period of time and more or less ran the swimming part of British swimming, you know, the actual sport performance part. And he knocked a lot of heads together. He pissed a lot of people off. He was very uncompromising and critical. Uh but a lot of people, you know, in the on the long tail of it, really cite him as hugely influential. There's a lot, a lot of people that really look up to Bill Sweetenham. I have a Bill Sweetenham book about training, which I think is excellent, an excellent resource. And I was actually, Anthony asked this question and I went, I went back, you know, to see, oh, like I he must have mentioned this in championship swim training. No, it wasn't in the index, so I had to get Anthony to send me the paper. And so, you know, this flies in the face of I think the sort of two countervailing forces to this debate. And th those are the ones I want to address. There's there's the one that I think is a more childish version of this, and that's what I was engaging with on social media, and um, that one is sort of like uh, you know, training training the the one the one post that I specifically engaged with basically said 6,000 m yards in a day was high volume and it was ruining the sport and it's gonna burn you out, and you know, um you know, you're a sprinter and your race is 20 seconds long. And I have all sorts of problems with that argument, right? You know, the minimum of which being like, who among us is actually really just training for a 50? I mean, I'm 42, almost 43. My best events are fifty, so I still don't just train for a 50. Cameron McAvoy's out there just training for a 50, good for him. But pretty much the rest of us, even a lot of elite swimmers, are training for something longer. And so a lot of this argument that's sort of like 50-50-50 anaerobic, anaerobic, anaerobic development stuff kind of falls apart on the face of that, right? And uh I I hope to have a really interesting conversation coming up. I'm I'm gonna be interviewing Herbie Beam at the CSCAA annual meeting. Shout out to all the college coaches listening to this. Come to the annual meeting. I promise you, you're gonna really enjoy listening to what uh Herbie has to talk about. We I've I've already done the groundwork on it, and he is gonna be frickin' awesome at this thing. Jordan Cordry, who've already heard on this podcast, is gonna be there as well. So be interviewing both of them there. Um I think it's gonna be really, really, really good. But you know, even Herbie Beam, I think, was talking about how he targets volume, how he targets uh low-intensity aerobic work, he how he sees it as complimentary. I mean, a really, really interesting conversation about it that I I'd like to give, you know, the full context to everybody listening to this. And um, I know I'm I'm doing a drive-by here in the conversation. But I think the more intelligent sort of counterpoint to this is if you go back to my conversation with Christopher Hendrickson, right, he is essentially saying, you know, at one point I I posted a clip of this, in fact, where he goes, you know, we can either target senior performance, that is like really like adult high performance at the expense of junior performance, um, or we can target junior performance at the expense of senior performance. And he is not speaking out from a technical, like, he's not getting that deep on, you know, like how many training sessions we should have and what volume we should be doing it at. But having heard him present, I mean, there's a strong implication that a lot of the recommendations when it comes down to it, he'll be like, you know what? He might say in some of these pubescent years, like, just chill out, don't push people so hard, you know, let them have fun, peace and love at practice, create a just create a positive environment where kids feel safe and good and you know, don't worry so much about competition and all this stuff. And, you know, there's an inevitable conflict in this because more or less what Sweetenham is talking about here is like there's it's the encapsulation of like the old school swimming knowledge, right? The idea that you have this window with an athlete, you know, we're talking 11-12, 13-14, 12 to 14, or 13 to 15 for a boy, where you're gonna find out what their ceiling is training-wise. And you you can really expand um their aerobic fitness over that time period. And, you know, important consideration that I think gets lost in a lot of this is you know, if you've got them at a good skill level, you can put enough repetition and volume behind that skill level to where you've created this kind of amazing floor for them as a senior athlete. So I've I've talked forever, Anthony. I'm gonna get to answering your question. Here's what I think. Here's how I square the circle between those two things. Because I I love you if you listen to my podcast with Christopher, you'll see I love him. I mean, I'm like, I'm ready to join his army, you know, at the end of it. And uh Bill is somebody who, you know, I didn't love the first time I ran into his stuff. And every year I get a little bit more respect and admiration for him. Maybe, you know, maturing is realizing that Bill Sweetenham was right about a lot of things and is right. He's still alive, right? I think that in the process of simplification here, and I I go back to my time coaching at Jersey Wahoos as a reference there, I think you can have both. I really think it's hard. I'm not saying it's not hard, but I think there's there is a have your cake and eat it too part of this. I really push back against the assumption that training a lot or training hard when you're a kid is by nature drudgery, torturous, debilitating, you know, mentally harmful. All the sort of assumptions that I think get bandied around. I'm not saying it doesn't end up that way sometimes. It absolutely does. It absolutely does end up that way sometimes. But what I'm saying is it doesn't have to be that way. And I think if you guys follow me for a long time, you know that's kind of at the core of my message. Like I'm a competitive guy. I want to train hard. I believe in, you know, providing safe mental well-being, promoting environments, but I don't think that it's naturally in conflict with training really hard and and pushing things along. I mean, like, kids have a lot of energy, kids have a lot of potential to do stuff. Kids can accomplish quite a bit. And I think they're it's a mistake to not realize that they're they're capable of more than you think. Um, and so I think the consideration for you as a coach, as you're thinking about, you know, how do I navigate this period? I want to set people up for future success. And you're thinking about this conflict, you know, oh, should I train them hard or should I, you know, be Mr. Nice Guy, peace and love. I think you should think about how hard can I train and maintain a standard of a healthy, happy, um, wonderfully supportive environment for kids to be in. That should be that should be your consideration. And instead of feeling like you're trapped, right, view it from an expansive lens. How far can I can I push that? And I think that is where you're gonna find something more. Mike, Mike Murray from Albany Academy, hit me with the the what did you learn this year? Mike, you're killing me, man. The open-ended question, what did you learn this year? And you know, so I had to think about this one for a while, Mike, because I learned a lot of things. I mean, you learn a lot of things in a year, and it's like, what can I I gotta give one answer, or else this is gonna be the longest podcast ever. I will say this. I have learned, and it kind of refers back to the last thing we were talking about. I have, I think I have learned in the last year that sometimes when you're feeling like you're at the absolute limit of what you're capable of, you are just at the precipice of pushing it just that much harder and getting to something that is incredibly energizing for you. And I'll tell you where I've found that in my own life. It and it comes back to this podcast. Um, people who've been listening a long time know we've gone through a lot of formats here. We're we're almost two years into me switching over to an almost all interview format. We still do some of these solo briefs as well, but we're mostly interview. And uh one of the reasons I resisted that as a format for a really long time was because frankly, booking guests is hard. It's really hard. I mean, I'm in the process right now. I have two NCAA coaches that I'm trying to get on this podcast. I'm on three or four unanswered messages from them. So I have to stay organized around asking people, asking again, shouting into the void, you know, scheduling, putting together these outlines. I mean, it's a it's a lot of work on the back end, and I was honestly intimidated by it. I was dejected. I think I was a little rejection sensitive, like it hurt my feelings when I didn't get somebody that I wanted to get on the podcast. But I committed to that and it was hard, it was hard, it was hard, it was hard. And probably within the last year, to answer Mike's question, I have realized that all of a sudden I am so energized by doing this. You know, it's not that it's not still hard, it's still hard, still challenging, still really pushes me to have to go out there and find guests. But doing the interviews, I mean, I'm learning so much. I hope you guys are getting as much as I am from from listening to them, but I'm learning so much. And I am I am just like I yeah, lack for for lack of a better term, I'm just so energized. I mean, it's like lightning bolt through my veins doing this, and I just want to do more and more and more because it's such a intense ride, and and um I'm addicted, honestly. I'm addicted to the learning aspect of it. So that's that's my big thing that I learned in last year. Steve, Steve Anderson from Boston asks, should swimming try to be more of a spectacle than a sport? You know what? Do you know what I love about my listeners? You guys you guys like know how to tee me off. I have a feeling like I don't, you know, I know Steve pretty well. I have a feeling like he knew this question would provoke me a little bit because I've been, you know, hinting and jabbing and, you know, throwing out a comment here or there. So let me let me let this be my definitive answer for the moment. And it it I'll I won't I won't spend five minutes getting to the answer. The answer is no. I don't think swimming should try to be more of a spectacle. I think and I'll tell you why. I think that where swimming has failed is a a fundamental insecurity. And I've been as guilty of it as anybody, a fundamental insecurity as a sport where our sport has not been, you know, we're not one of the select few that are so popular that there's, you know, huge TV contracts and sponsors and, you know, massive money to be made at the top of it. And it's tempting to think, okay, how could we get some of that, right? How could we get some of that formula? How could we bring some of that to swimming? And it's not only, you know, it would be nice to bring it to swimming, but it's an existential question, right? Because I think everybody's a little bit uneasy right now thinking like in a in a in the new world of especially of collegiate athletics, is it really just going to be 100% haves and have nots, and we're gonna be the have not sport and we're gonna cease to exist? And we'll just Be kind of a niche, you know, and it will be even more of a niche sport than we are right now. And what do we have to do to get ourselves closer to the big guys? I don't think that spectacle is the answer. I don't think, first off, I think we're copying a piece of the formula that those sports went to at a later stage. I think they built a real authentic, genuine interest in their sport over a long time. I think they're actually have done a lot to devalue that, and that's why they're turning to spectacle right now. So I don't think it's a copy, something we should copy as part of their formula. I actually think the spectacle, I can see the short-term argument for it in like basketball. I mean, I went to a Sixers game with my family, and I can see, you know, my kids love the all the other stuff that was going on outside of the game. But the thing is, I grew up being a basketball fan and they pulled me in with just the basketball. And at the end of the day, I don't know that they're creating new basketball fans, right? And I think what would behoove us in swimming is to continue to create more swimming fans, to continue to engage people in the sport. And I think a lot of that comes down to actually not messing with the core product. I know you're going like, well, Chris, you were for the NCAA changes. Not get into that in this in this question. I don't think any of the NCAA qualification changes are about spectacle. Spectacle versus sport. You know, I'm talking about the kind of sideshow stuff. I don't want to start beef with Kyle Sockwells. Don't make me do that. Okay. But the stuff that's just not like, hey, we have this awesome sport where it's really actually pretty easy to see what's going on. You know, people race and somebody touches first and somebody gets second and somebody gets third. And it's much easier to understand than I think a lot of these, you know, big time spectator sports. But I think what we do a really bad job of in the sport and where I don't see the energy being put in. You know, there's kind of like these proto-professionalization efforts, and there's the spectacle stuff, and and um shout out, now I'm gonna shout out to Kyle Sockwell. He is trying to do this. I think he's the man who could really push this forward. I would love to see him give it his all, but and I've heard him talk about it. What we are missing more than anything is context storytelling around our sport. So we have these amazing athletes, but unless you are just a fan, just a really, really hardcore fan of swimming, or you like know that athlete, which, you know, it's a very small world, so there's there's a certain core of people that that's true for, you don't really have that much invested in what's happening. And I think, you know, what would really behoove us to, and I'm trying to do this with the podcast, I'm trying to tell the stories of these coaches. I'm trying to, you know, get us even as a community, even our little insular community, to be like, hey, that person that I, you know, maybe just heard this idle gossip about. I actually listened to him on Chris's podcast and I really like him. And now I'm invested in, you know, how's UCLA gonna do next year, right? How's Herbie gonna do at ASU? Because I feel like I know him a little bit. I think, you know, Kyle is the man to do that for athletes. We've got to get storytelling out about athletes. I see USA Swimmings trying to do a little bit of it now. I've watched some stuff on Regan Smith recently that I thought was pretty good. So I think there's a lot of like nascent efforts, but we need a lot more. We need a lot more because we do have an amazing sport. We got an amazing sport with amazing people, amazing athletes doing amazing things. But I think that if we just sort of devolve into like sort of cheap, quick hit, short-term thinking stuff to juice a slight amount of more interest in the short term, I don't think that that is going to be the real difference maker. Okay, question number four. This one comes from Kate in Morristown, New Jersey, who asks. That's a that's an inside baseball in that question. Um, who asks, top five influences that I find myself citing time and time again, aka who are these random guys that you and they're they are all guys. Well, you'll I'm cheating with the fifth one, so we'll see. That you find yourself citing time and time again. These are people that, you know, random names that I throw out on the podcast that she's like, do people even know who you're talking about? And so, without further ado, here's some ones for for the real OG swim brief nerds to dig in deeper on. Tom Tutko, the sports psychologist. I mentioned him on the podcast with Jordan Cordry recently, and I've got his book sitting here behind me of listening to some audio, video actually as well, of Tom Tutko talks. And I'm not going to get into a lot of the specific comments. But what I think really appeals to me about Tom Tutko is, you know, I I think there's, you know, there's a layer to knowledge that I put a lot of emphasis on. If you listen to this podcast, you know, I am not just focused on what people know, but I'm actually really focused on how do they communicate it. Because I think, honestly for myself, I think that's a rate limiter. I often think I have a really good idea, but I can't communicate it well. And therefore I can't really implement it, and therefore it's not really usable yet. And so, Tom, one of the reasons why I love him is not only do I think he's got great ideas when it comes to sports psychology, I think he's I find myself coming back to again, you know, stuff like the story that I told on on Jordan's my podcast with Jordan, but I also think he's an amazing communicator. He's a really good storyteller. And so not only does he does he have great ideas, but those ideas stick with you. And there's something to be learned just from observing his process of how he communicates stuff. From one great communicator to the next. Every single person on this list I think is an awesome communicator. Okay. That's that's that's table stakes for Chris DeSantis, whether he's you're going to get cited on his list. Okay. Milton Elms. Milt's a guy I've mentioned on here a lot of times. Um, you know, I had Joel Rawlings on within the last few months, and and Joel and I both share Milt as an influence. Milt is the kind of guy who when I first met him, I met him at a swim meet in Denmark. He was standing there in a Speedo and his distinctive hat. I don't know what that type of hat is called. I'll have to look that up later, but he he has a very distinctive looking hat and he was just kind of staring out at a meet, and somebody nudged me and goes, I think that's Milton Elms. And I was like, No way. So I just went up and I started talking to him, and it turns out he'd been reading some of the stuff I'd been writing, and we hit it off from there, and and he would call me. And to be honest with you, when he would call me, I would do almost all the talking, and that's because I just wanted to listen to what he had to say, and I did not understand most of what he was saying. And I told him that. I said, uh like I'd be listening and following around and go, I don't really understand what you just said, but I'm gonna think about it for a while. And um and what I found is again, a lot of the stuff that he said sticks with me. And the longer that I think about it, the more and bigger impact that it has on what I'm doing. Um and he's you know, a lot of people kind of like who know who he is. He lives down in Australia, in Tasmania, Australia, so very remote part of Australia. He's very hard to get to. He's you know, he's not like he's not you're not gonna find him at the Asuka World Clinic. In fact, uh for more the reasons than one. He's known, you know, a lot as kind of like a technique guru. He doesn't even like the word technique. Last time I spoke with him at least. But again, it's it's really more less about the specific ideas, but he is an amazing communicator and he's amazing at looking at things from a perspective that will like really like really give you, I think, an underlying principle to look look out from at things from a different perspective. So I find Milt amazing, and I have you know, my dream project is to somehow pass a lot of what Milt knows on to the rest of the world, but I I don't know. You know, I don't know if that's gonna happen. But Doc Counselman, you guys have heard me cite Doc a number of times, but I guess what I want to keep repeating, and I we talked about this a bit in my recent podcast with Randy Wilbur, Doc Counselman was not only an amazing coach and was one of the top coaches of his time, maybe the top coach of his time, he's also a scientist. And in many ways, he was kind of a proto like writer influencer. And what I mean was he he had a media presence, he had a he had a role in getting Swimming World magazine off the ground. He was, you know, in that time like really pushing the forefront in terms of knowledge sharing and engaging with other coaches, and he was so freaking open. He was like really willing to share all parts of his process. And I think there's a certain like confidence and security in that that I find very, very rare. And so I really look up to him and I I have got again, I've got his book on here, and you know, if you read it, there's some stuff where you where you think like, I don't know if that really holds together anymore. But like for the edition that I have, which I think is about 60 years old, damn, a lot of that holds up. And so I think that's what's kind of more interesting to me. And I think, you know, when you get to my last point, you'll understand why. But I I think it's more important to see not only what is the latest knowledge that's sort of coming in, this, you know, new idea, new idea, new idea, but like what is the stuff that just persists? The stuff that persists for a long time, it stays there for a reason. And it's it's really important. Um another guy, shout out to Alan Cousins. I actually just had a um, I think a brief email exchange with him. Um he's an Australian uh sports physiologist, works in a lot of endurance sports. I've shouted out his book a number of times on here, The Science of Mass Maximal Athletic Performance. Oh gosh, I should get it right. The science of maximal athletic development by Alan Cousins. And um, he's got a substack where you can get on there and you can read all the chapters of it that he has written already. Um and I just find it is really good, really good and useful for me for updating my methodology around training and training systems, even though I don't train people day to day. I think he's got really interesting ideas that, you know, bridge some of the gaps um between, you know, if you're reading some stuff from Sweetenham that's old, and if you're reading some stuff from other sort of thinkers in the in the swimming world that is, you know, 20, 25 years old. I think he's done a good job updating some of that stuff and again reinforcing some of the fundamentals. I also think that when I read his stuff, I I think it really syncs up some of, you know, like I look at it everything, of course, from a psychological lens, and I think that what Alan Cousins has really kind of puts it all together for me. And you know, you cannot extricate these things from themselves, that the the the body and the mind are all part of one system. And I think, you know, when I read Alan, I find my brain constantly forming the connections between some of the stuff that I've been working on and what he's doing. Then my fifth one, and I this is also something I think I've gotten reinforced from doing the podcast, is this is my cheater one, but it's subjects outside of coaching. For me, the biggest one is history, but anything that I'm interested in outside of coaching, I think one of the biggest mistakes you can make if you're, you know, especially if you're like a coach and your work is also your passion, it's maybe also your hobby, right? You can put all your eggs in that basket. And it's actually really, really important to have interests and to just sometimes go for them whole hog. And I mean that not only from, you know, like the sort of psychological trite kind of perspective where people go, oh, you gotta have balance, you got a balance in your life, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I mean even from if you're just looking at it like raw, I want to be a good coach, invest yourself in something that on its face has nothing to do with coaching because I think you'll be really surprised. Well, in the beginning at least, eventually you realize it's part of your process. But in the beginning, you'll be really surprised at how much it reverberates back to what you're doing. And I think this can be really good too because people hold themselves back from other passions and they think, oh gosh, you know, it's just a waste of time. It's not a waste of time. Put some of yourself into something else and see what you get back. Okay. That is the mailbag. This has been a long solo brief. Thank you guys all for listening. This is coming out just on the heels of me being away for a couple weeks. So um, I hope you've enjoyed the podcast in the meantime. I've got a lot more good ones coming for you soon. Thank you to Lis for listening. Uh, if you want to reach out to me, Crdesantis at gmail.com, Christy Coach.com, Instagram Christie underscore coach, and uh be back with you again in a week.