Greg Bergdorf- former Zebrahead & The Bourbon Brothers Band

On this episode of Caught on the Mike, Mike sits down with guitarist, songwriter, and producer Greg Bergdorf. Greg spent more than 15 years as the lead guitarist and songwriter for Zebrahead, helping shape the band’s signature blend of punk, rap, and rock while touring the world and performing on festivals like Warped Tour.

Greg shares stories from the early Orange County music scene, the moment the band realized their music was reaching fans around the world, and what life was really like during the nonstop touring era of the late ‘90s and 2000s. He also reflects on the decision to step away from full-time touring and how he redefined his identity after nearly two decades in a globally successful band.

Today, Greg continues to stay deeply involved in music as a producer, engineer, and collaborator, helping artists bring their creative visions to life while also performing with his current project, The Bourbon Brothers. This conversation dives into the evolution of the music industry, lessons learned from working with top producers, and what still fuels his passion for creating music today.

If you’re a fan of punk rock, the Warped Tour era, songwriting, or the behind-the-scenes side of making records, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent. Listener discretion is advised. For fans of late 90s and early 2000s folk rock, Zebrahead was one of those fans that captured the energy of the era, big books, high-energy shows, and constant touring. Today's guest, Greg Bergdorf, spent more than 15 years as the band's lead guitarist and lead songwriter, helping take them from the Orange County scene to stages around the world in festivals like the Warfare Tour. Since then, Greg has evolved into a producer and collaborator, working with artists across genres while continuing to create music with the Bourbon Brothers. We talk about the early days, life on the road, and what it looks like to reinvent yourself after a long, successful run in a successful band. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic. And today's guest is guitarist, songwriter, and producer Greg Bergdorf. Greg spent more than 15 years as the lead guitarist and songwriter for one of my favorite bands, Zebrahead, recording nine studio albums, selling over 1.5 million records worldwide and touring the globe alongside bands like Green Day and 311. These days he's working behind the scenes, producing and collaborating with artists across all genres. Plus, he's got an amazing project called the Bourbon Brothers Band. I was actually listening to them on Spotify. I love that Kroner stuff. And uh, we're gonna talk about the early days, we're gonna talk about life um and how he's reinvented himself today. Greg, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for having me, Mike. Dude, it's it's an absolute pro pleasure. Um, you know, I want to kind of jump right into it. Let's uh take me back to the beginning. How did Zebrahead come together in Orange County and what was the scene like when the band was first starting out?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Oh wow. Uh so when we first started, uh I would say, gosh, offspring had just broke. Um I I can't remember if no yeah, no doubt had already broke too. Um, but we grew up in um like Orange County, Fullerton. Um Ben went to Cal State Fullerton. I know half of the people from uh No Doubt went there. Um and like we used to see them in like backyard, I don't know if kids still do this anymore, but keg parties. Um like and you know, there'd be a band back there playing, it'd be no doubt all the time. And they were super huge um you know, local hometown heroes. And then when that record came out, you know, it was just massive. Um the offspring record was just huge, and and you know, both in our backyards, and uh the the scene was kind of that. And um we had um I I guess rage had just been out for a little hot second too. Um and then you know there was some some frost pollination of like rock and rap with corn and and biscuit. And uh um me and Ed were in a band together called 409. Uh Ben was in another band called Um Threeply, and Justin was in a band called Once There. And they all went to the same high school, but all I went to a private all-boys high school, Catholic all-boys Jesuit high school. Uh, but all my friends went to the high school that all all the other guys in the band went to. Um, so we all knew each other, you know, just from being friends, and and we had rented a uh lockout space in an industrial unit and shared it as the three bands um uh as our rehearsal space. And so, you know, we'd go to work during the day and then we get off work and one of the three bands would be playing there. And uh sometimes it it, you know, we'd make a schedule and somebody would practice from 5:30 to 8:30, and another band would be practicing 8:30 to 11, and there'd be an overlap of whoever's late, whoever stays late from the previous band, and we would just jam with each other since we were all friends. And uh Ben one day was like, it was jam is kind of fun. I got this other friend who raps, and we should bring him in and like just have freestyle over us, you know, goofing off. Everybody's like, uh, okay, whatever. Not thinking anything of it. And all all three of our bands were like kind of the the priority. And uh Justin's band was having a seven-inch um release party at a venue. Um gosh, if you don't remember, it's called Coos Cafe for those of you that grew up in in Southern Orange, Orange County, Southern California. Um, but it was uh like this all-ages coffee shop that would have bands all weekend, and everybody played there. Um, and it was tiny, it was like playing in somebody's living room. Um and but it was it would be full, like everybody played it. Um, and so we were all on the bill with Justin's band headlining since it was his release party, and in between set changes, we did the two songs that um we had written, which were also pretty much freestyled. Like the music was written, but the lyrics were kind of like Allie would just freestyle the lyrics, and Justin had a melody that he sang over and over again, but he would just kind of mumble something so that you couldn't really tell what the words were because he didn't have words written for it. And the response we got from the two songs that we had played was 10x more than any of our individual bands. And we finished the show and we were like, we need to write more songs for this. Like everyone loves this, but really nobody cared about our regular bands. Um so we that's how we started was like that was it. Oh, and like we didn't have a name either. It was you know, five minutes before we go on, and and we're like, whoa, we don't have a name. What are we gonna announce ourselves as? And Allie says, I just watched this movie about a white guy growing up in a black neighborhood, and it was called Zebrahead. I thought it was really cool, like movie, and then you know what it was about, and then um then I he's like I dug the name too, and all of us but yeah, sure, great. If we hate it tomorrow, we'll change it. It's one gig, but and it's just stuck.

unknown 7:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

I think everybody's got a band story, band name story like that, because coming up with a band name is probably the most tedious task of joining a band or putting one together.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Brian, it's got even harder now because you can actually see worldwide of what's out there. Is there is there another YouTube channel? Is there somebody already put that out on Spotify? Back in the 90s, you know, none of those things happened. So if you had a band called Blink, for instance, and there was somebody else who already released something under Blink, how would you know? And then you get to you get signed, and then you're like, what do you mean we gotta change our name? This is there's another Blink somewhere. Um so we were actually worried about that because of the the movie name, and we eventually would get signed to um Sony Columbia, and as luck would have it, the zebrahead movie with Michael Rappaport was a Columbia Sony movie, so they were like, this is fine, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Amazing. So coming up during that time frame and in that area, um, did you ever feel like it was more competitive or more like a community of bands pushing each other?

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Uh you might get different answers out of the original five of us on that one, but I always felt that it it was being a musician, still to this day, I still feel like being a musician is a is a brotherhood, not a competition. Um you know, sort of rising tide lifts all boats sort of you know scenario saying. Um so I I personally never viewed it as a competition. Um and when we started playing regularly and getting noticed um um by AR um people who would come out to shows, uh, we played at this club called 369, and um we we played there, Lit would play there, um a band called Head PE played there, who also got signed, a band called Um Suction um got signed, played there a lot, and uh they ended up having to change their name to Deadlights when they got signed. But on any given weekend, one of the four of us was headlining, and all of us would go hang out at the shows and like I don't know, just cheer for each other, but at the same time, I'm also like they gave us free beer, so maybe we're just hanging out aside from hanging out with our friends and our bands who we wanted to promote, like the the bar would give us free beer. Um, so like we would just be our hangout, like we would go to 369 for no reason, and um and then even if one of our friends weren't playing, but like almost all we we knew almost every band every weekend, but we would know the entire lineup, like um, so it it I thought it was really a great community um to be part of and um to see a lot of people get signed that that played out of that club all the time was was really cool. Um and we even did we would do we we would end up trading shows with bands from LA too, being from Orange County, which people who don't live in Southern California are like, oh that's really close, right? Yeah, it is and it isn't. Like there's a line in the sand, like usually you don't cross the two. And and to make that jump from um to expand from Orange County to LA County is like you're really growing. Like, and I remember we used to trade shows um with uh oh man, I'm brain farting on the name. Um uh the reason uh that song went um Huba Stank. My god. Hubi Stank, thank you. Um and they they had horns when we first started playing them with them, they were like a ska band, and then they kind of evolved. Um and we used to trade shows with Papa Roach and go up to Sacramento and and San Francisco and play with them. And uh it it was uh yeah, I I felt it was a great community. Like it every I always felt like everybody rooted for each other. Maybe sometimes in the back they're like but we were always like um in in public and in and with each other, like I I always felt like we we rooted for our friends and they're rooting for us. So um I thought that was always kind of special.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I love that. You know, we're gonna get probably touch on the Omaha connection a little later in the story, but um as an Omaha guy, I I know about every single band that was big at that time, had some weird zebrahead connection at one point in their career or another. I've got my own story. I remember going to the Ranch Bowl one time, and it was, I think it was Fourth of July weekend, and it was Zebrahead and Cottmouth Kings playing a show at the Ranch Bowl, and there was this little band that nobody had ever heard of called Lincoln Park that opened the show. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Oh. I wonder if they got put on the bill early, because I remember when they came out.

unknown 12:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Because when they were when they were in LA, they were hybrid theory before they were Lincoln Park. And maybe they got put on that one show, which which is very possible because that would happen all the time. There was we used to joke about this in Zebrahead that if you open for Zebrahead, you're gonna be super huge. So there was, I forget what Story of the Year was called before they were Story of the Year, but they had opened for Big Blue Monkey. Yes. And they were St. Louis, I think. Does that sound right? They opened it for us, and then we were we were like, Who? What? Oh, this is those kids that played for us at such and such show. Uh another one was uh uh Buck Cherry and Everlast. We kind of played together as a three-piece like showcase, and we were like the last to to showcase, like they they went first, so that was kind of like uh I don't know if that one counts, guys. Um Chevelle played open, got put on a bill at it became the House of Blues in Cleveland. I for I want to it was called the the Odian, I think. Um, but it was us and Real Big Fish, and they put an opener on, and the re their first record had just came out. It they were all of like 18 or 19. I mean it was kind of like a like a tools type of band, right? And we were just all looking at each other like this is an odd pick to put on a real big fish show. But then we were like, I don't know, I guess we did the real big fish fans like us, so I don't know, maybe it's not that weird. But Chevelle was one of those bands. It would just happen all the time. We were like, wait a minute, I remember those guys. They opened up first at X, Y, Z play. So that was always our our running band. But I don't I don't know where I think we're I just listened to the uh your your your pod with uh Chris from Less than Jake. Um because I was gonna bring up if you remembered the ranch bowl, because I thought I had read somewhere in your bio you're in Lincoln. And I was like, I wonder if you've been there, yeah. I'm in Lincoln. Yeah. Oh yeah, I played the ball. We played there probably 20 times. Yeah, that was always it was such a fun place because it was a when you're traveling, we first get out on tour, and you're like, oh my god, what the fuck are you doing? Omaha. And then you get there and the the venue was always so good. The crowd was always great there, the people were always great there. The they had gosh, they had the sand volleyball courts outside. Didn't they have a studio in the side too where like Conway Twitty or Convoy or something got recorded there? And then everybody would stay late, like all the pains would stay late in house staff, and we go bowling afterwards. Like it was always a great time.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yes, yes. So Convoy was actually recorded at Warehouse Studios, which is in the middle of the town, but the recording studio that was part of Ranch Bowl, Goldfinger did an EP there. Um wow. And uh was it a live? Okay. What's that? Yeah, well, no, the they did a couple of studio tracks and a live recording. Okay. But did well, did did you did you know Maddie then from that era? So here's what's crazy about that, and that's that's where we're bringing the Omaha connection together. My very first show, I I lived at the very perfect midpoint between Omaha and Des Moines. And so I used to sing for a ska band that was kind of more Des Moines adjacent. And uh, our very last show we opened up for Slipknot right before they went off and did their uh first album. And like the Slipknot guys, you want to talk about people that had the weirdest openers ever. Slipknot guys had the urge open for them, real big fish open for them, like everybody opened for Slipknot if they were passing through Des Moines. But whenever I decided I wanted to start in a band, uh start a new band after that band dissolved, I was like, okay, I can either move to Des Moines and be in a Slipknot clone band, or I can move to Omaha and do whatever the fuck I want to do. My very first show was uh playing with Jank 1000 in Omaha whenever I first moved to Omaha. So Matt Maddie and I never really brushed paths beyond that because Jank kind of disbanded shortly after that. And I knew before Maddie joined Zebrahead, he kind of laid low for a little bit and then joined Zebrahead. So just kind of crazy. So we know each other through each other through six degrees of separation more than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yeah, you I remember so on that crisp pod you were talking about um that uh gosh, the place was called Safari Club. Is that what it was called? Slipknots Club in Iowa. Yeah. And we we were going through there with Real Big Fish, and the all the RBF guys were like, oh, you gotta meet our friends tomorrow that own this club. They're in this crazy heavy metal band. They wear these weird clown masks and they bang on like kegs with baseball bats as part of percussion. There's like 20 of them, they all come out. I don't know how they feel on this stage, but the show is insane. I can't believe they haven't been signed yet. And we go meet them, they're all super nice, and then we're like two years later, you're like, oh, those are those guys.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yes. Yes. I think even now, like it's painful 27 years later, because I look at it and I'm like, was in that orbit and it's night still like that suspension of disbelief. It's like, really? This happened, and they're like the biggest metal band in the world.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, it's like, oh man, we hung out with Slipknot before they were like Slipknot.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

After nearly two decades with Zebrahead, you eventually stepped away from that full-time touring lifestyle. Um, what led to that decision and how difficult was that to close that chapter of life? It was super difficult for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Um I had I had kids later in life. Um, so I think when my other my other kid is staring at me from across the the chat room right now as I talk about kids. Um but uh yeah, my my daughter um was born and all of a sudden I it became less fun to be on the road all the all the time. Um and I I started thinking about like because I always love music. I love making records, I love um playing the shows, but then like being away from home became really difficult. I I got really used to to missing um anniversaries, birthdays, my friends' weddings. Um I totally was you know numb to that. But like missing first steps, first words was really difficult. And um maybe if I was if this my story arc for zebrahead was still new, uh I could be like, yeah, I gotta do this. I dreamed about this since I was 11 years old. Like I'm not like we'll figure out how to make this work. At 42, 43, and I'd already been doing it almost two decades. It was like I had this realization one night that I wasn't having new adventures anymore. I was having repeat adventures that I've already had. And then you married and kids, you're like, it's not the same shenanigans that you're gonna get into, and then you try and avoid getting into shenanigans at all as you get older, and you're like, well, that's less fun, even though it's the you know better thing for you. Um and um yeah, it it was I I I just wanted to uh I didn't want to miss um my daughter growing up and not be around. And like I said, it if it was new, like Ed and Ben had kids earlier in in our career, like the playmate era, um it it right I I probably would have like just got used to it, but having it been um a a hat that I I'd already been walking on for a while, like it it was um it made me rethink uh just reprioritized my life and and um what I wanted out of it. And it took a good year, maybe two, to where I was really thinking about quitting. And I I didn't know how to do it. My identity was so wrapped up into being a I guess Greg from Zebrahead that I I didn't know how to be somebody else. I also didn't know how to uh walk away from from my dreams as a kid. Like let's say I was a baseball player. At some point, even if you're really, really good, Father Time is gonna kick you out. And I guess it doesn't really necessarily work that way for music. Like it'll never be a physical thing unless you have some sort of debilitating disease. But when people are still coming to the shows, people are still streaming your songs, buying records, and um appreciating what you're listen what they're listening to, what the art that you're putting out, uh I had never envisioned me turning it off versus the world or the industry or or some other forces being like your your ride is over, your 15 seconds are up or your 15 minutes are up. And I that I think that was hard for me to grasp too. Like I don't know how long this is going to last. Do I I don't I gotta keep I gotta go I gotta go to the end of the ride, right? Like I'm still and I ended up having to say that no I I think this is the end of the ride for me. I think it was even weirder for me for the two or three years after that where I just didn't touch a guitar which was like I I started playing it at 11 and there was I don't there were not many days where I didn't pick up a guitar and there were many days where I would play guitar for eight ten twelve hours of time and to not touch a guitar for two, three years was I don't know it was kind of awkward. I didn't almost I don't I didn't know what to do with myself. It's like a scene in Zoolaner where you see he's like staring in the puddle and he's like who am I? And so that's just like what I felt like I'm like who am I when I without playing guitar I'm like I feel like I'm like I don't have that creative outlet I don't have I love playing music so much and my friends would be like just playing a dad rock band. I'm like that's weird. When I've seen the other side that's just weird now. And then yeah it it ended up being to where I I play in a wrecked hockey league and uh I hear one of the other guys in warm-ups singing under his helmet. I'm like escape him again. Yo are you singing Frank Sinatra under your helmet? So go? I'm like yes you were he's like okay maybe it was and hey well can we rejess at like Jam Standon sometimes? And then that's how Bird Brothers started where it it was if it it felt okay to do I I guess a a different genre rather than trying to replicate what I had already done or to be like get back into Zabrahead or like I I don't know like all of those things seemed weird to me to to do but to do something entirely different felt like oh that seems acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

It's it's weird whenever you're kind of on your way out or you're kind of pondering that decision it always feels like there's major inflection points that bring you back in. It's that line from the Godfather three is every time I want to get out something brings me back in. Did you have that push poll that last year of Zebrahead?

SPEAKER_00 26:01

All the time. Because definitely I still love playing shows. I love seeing fans. I love hanging out with fans. There were so many fans that became friends that I would look forward to like oh what city are we in tomorrow? You you look at your lanyard because I wouldn't know otherwise and you're like oh okay I'm gonna see this person, this person tomorrow that's cool. Or a lot of times that fans would travel for Zabrahead like someone would take a week vacation and like just you'd see them every night you're like oh how long are we hanging out for? Alright see you tomorrow. All right where we going after the show wouldn't let's go grab lunch. Like they're they become part of the family um that when you start touring that long like the the people that you see on on tour I always referred to like the other bands too and and um friends that would be in in different parts of the globe as like growing up in the Southern California I never went to like a sleepaway camp like like Bill Murray meatballs or something. But that's super normal here in the here in the South. And I always refer to them like by camp friends like it's my rock friends like you you're best friends when you see them again next summer. Like we best friends when I see these people next tour or at the next festival um but like you go home and you're like maybe you comment on their Facebook or Instagram or whatever every now and again you shoot them an email it's what's happy their happy birthday but like they're not like in your day-to-day routine um but you still consider them friends you know so I I love seeing um my friends out that you know we had we had made over the years um but I I think about this too when I see like zebraheads um on tour and they're that populates my feed and um and and you see like these great shows the festivals you're like oh I'm kind of misplaying festivals that was always a great time like this 2000 people and you get to be on a giant ass stage run around do is like be as energetic as you want to be you can turn your amp up to 11 you nobody cares. You're like this is awesome. And then what you don't see that I always remember is when there's no pictures on the Tuesday and the Wednesday and it's really just two days of driving and you're just sitting at a bus staring out a window going when's the next petrol stop so I can get a Magnum bar and some Ritter sport and just like pulling your hair out. And then you like like that part people forget about or people don't know that part. Like there's more days of that than there are days of playing in front of 2000 people at a festival or like being in Japan and and playing in a baseball stadium on main stage at a festival in front of Slipknot and we're just like yeah that was pretty awesome oh yeah the two weeks before that sucked minus the 45 minutes of the show and then hang out with your friends after but like the traveling and you're sitting there and just like what it's a 20 hour drive you wake up at like two in the afternoon you're like shit we're still driving.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Dude bringing things the more back to the here and now um you're doing the bourbon brothers band as you talked about and like I said fantastic music if those of you that are listening or watching this right now check them out on Spotify. Make sure you're giving them a follow on Instagram and checking out uh Greg's Instagram as well but you've also done a lot of producing and engineering records for other artists how does your mindset change when you're sitting behind a console and helping another artist bring their vision to life versus just writing your own music I so let me say I I really respect it Howard Benson who did our first two records and Cameron who did our records following that and uh like there were times we would butt heads and it was never like I hate you I but I wish I could fire you like it was just a vision of what direction a song or a tone or a part of a song is is going.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

And at the time I would I would be really wrapped in when you're in it and it's your song it you know it's your name on the spine of the C D or vinyl or cassette tape or whatever medium it is at the current time, right? You really want it to be your way as the artist and when the five of us as a band were on the same page with a song like didn't matter like we'd get our way like it would roll. When the five of us were fractured of how the we thought a song should go or a part should be let's say like two people wanted it one way two people wanted another way one person was like I don't know I care less and then the producer has to someone's gotta someone's gotta solve the fight. Someone's got to push things along because there's deadlines and timelines and money's getting spent every day in the studio like there has to be a completion to it. And if the five of us couldn't get it together I would be bitter that somebody else did it or I didn't get my way and somebody else outside of the band would get their way. I would be like both of you are wrong. Both factions are wrong. We're doing it this way um so I I think it gave me perspective to produce other people's music of like oh shit there they don't know what they want and they're fighting about it and I don't have all day let's move this along right so I think that it really changed my perspective of sitting in that seat and being being outside of the band um uh where it wasn't my name on the spine and being able to look at it from a a different perspective of then the artistic perspective of what you wanted to say what you wanted to sound like what do you want to look like versus we have some harsh realities of budget and this needs to move along right or um nobody's gonna like that like okay that's great there's always there's always deep cuts on records and a lot of times the deep cuts are the band's favorite records because they get to be a little weirder. At the same time there's like there's got to be a couple of singles right some some songs that people listen to and immediately click with and sometimes you have to drive that point home with bands too um and it doesn't have to be 12 out of 12 songs on the record have to be like that. Like it's like that thing you do. You're gonna give me that thing you do in Spanish and it's gonna be snappy. Like the other side I don't care it's yours. Go nuts. Right right um so I I guess producing other people's stuff made made me respect the people that I had worked with before a lot more and I and I already respected Cameron and Howard tons. I will learn so much from the both of them. I should throw Marshall in there too um I'll all but it they were all they were all very influential on our band and and our sound and our growth as as artists and songwriters and recording artists.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

So what are some of the biggest mistakes you see newer bands making when they're trying to break through these days I I would say consistency.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

I mean record stores anymore or CD stores I guess that I vinyl's making a big comeback vinyl's great um but it's a a lot about streams and to be active on streams at least Spotify like it it wants they want you to be consistent. They don't want a record once every two years they want continuous singles every four six eight weeks to keep you in the algorithm to keep pushing to keep interest um so I would say too much time off is is probably somewhere where young bands fail. And as much as I hate to say it or admit it like social media is part of that as well like you got to be consistent with posting that social media with relevant content. If you're trying to to break out and grow your audience to um more people more bigger shows bigger gigs.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah yeah for sure and and I agree with that it's funny you mentioned Story of the year formerly Big Blue Monkey I just had uh Josh on a couple of days ago he's the drummer of Story of the year and we were talking about the new release strategy and how artists have kind of a love-hate relationship with it because by the time an album comes out you've already pretty much played the entire album for a uh a fan base because of the requirement of having that one single every six to eight weeks just to keep that algorithm engaged.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Yeah some artists like it some don't yeah it's it's you know it's just different the rules change I mean I um it's it's progress whether you want to get on board with it or I I guess progress maybe might not be the right word for some people but there there's change involved um for good or for bad um in a lot of ways it's difficult for artists now to wrap their head around that to be successful you have to accept that there's a it's the music business and not just music and and they need to take the reins of the business aspect of it. And um where like when Zebrahead got signed, we didn't have to think about marketing. We didn't have to think about you know how to how to put that together at the Columbia Sony took care of that. There's people that specialized in that but now you have to be able to do that yourself. You have to be able to figure out like what what pictures you're gonna take what you know what's your social media strategy kind of content. Like you have to be your own publicist you have to be to a certain point until you reach a certain height you have to be your own booking agent you have to be your own manager. Like you artist has to be more involved with the things that most of us artists tried to run away from and why we became artists is because we didn't want to be in business. Like that was a rough pill for me to swallow somewhere in my late 20s where it was like my record is just a widget but if you don't sell enough widgets you're gonna have to go get a job and you don't get to play music for a living and so like that's so there's a rub.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah for sure. And you know you addressed a lot of the challenges that newer artists face but they're kind of like you know I work a lot in the fighter space too and one of the coaches I work with his um favorite line is pressure as a privilege. And you know artists are really lucky to have that privilege as well because they have more autonomy over what they're putting out there in the world. But what is the bigger advantage for a new artist trying to build a career today?

SPEAKER_00 38:53

I I think you have accessibility that you didn't have before there's the gatekeeper walls are down. Um like the but now like when Zebrahead got signed the major labels or at least indie labels some label of some sort were gatekeepers to the industry of what could be out and listened to like they had someone had to go fun for you be in a studio because there was no such thing as a home recording studio unless you were just filthy rich and you had something in your you know basement or you know garage that you could record something on which was a super rarity like that like just didn't happen. You could record full record in your basement in your in an apartment nowadays like you don't even need a basement like you don't even need space like you don't even need to not be loud anymore. There's plenty of plugs there's um there's fractals like you don't need amps you don't need to be on 10 you don't need to be 120 decibels recording guitars anymore. Maybe drums you can make an an argument for that but even drums it's like half the records I hear that have drummers I'm like that's not drums on that record those are program get the fuck out of here what are you talking about like those aren't real like my my wife's a big Swifty. Right and so when that last record came out she's like what what do you think? She's like I she's asking me all these questions she's like I want to have a podcast where I just ask you questions about music because I had so much to say I'm like this is I'm like these aren't I don't know why this drummer in the band there's no drums on this record. What are you talking about? And then there's like two songs later I'm like oh this okay this song has drums. And she says I'm like I hate these guitars on this next song. And she's like what's wrong with the guitars I'm like that's not real ant and it sounds like you plugged in direct and there's nothing happening. Like this is the worst shedious sound for a fucking guitar I've ever fucking heard. Like a 14 year old should be able to do better than this. These are like million dollar producers of the best of them the best guitar tone these clowns can come up with right so you know there was there's just so much fake instruments happening now. It's like you you don't I mean I don't I don't know how many streams but I'm gonna guess Taylor Swift's last album is in the billions and they probably recorded that and she got those Swedish guys right they probably did that in some Swedish apartment that they live in that's in some million dollar high rise where it's like yeah there's the shot just they just did it there. There's one room there's they're all in the same room there's no vocal booth this like and 99% of the people don't I'm snobbish about it.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Like my wife has no idea and as long as the vocals sound good the average person has no idea that right like right and it's and it's hard to unmarry yourself from those things once you hear them like if you've been in this studio environment studio has a certain sound. So like synthetic sounds sound synthetic you know and and I love the fact that you're absolutely passionate about it. So let's kind of let's confront that head on after decades in the industry touring writing and producing and collaborating what still gives you the spark that made you want to pick up guitar in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 42:14

I still love music. I I love playing um I I think one of the things like let's take Bourbon brothers for instance one of the things I love about Bourbon brothers is that outside of starting with Flying of the Moon and ending with my way everything in the middle we we've we've maybe written four set lists in the six seven years we've been together like we just call it we look over each other and be like hey this one no all right this one and we pull up a chart and we play it and then I we probably have five hours six hours worth of music that we could play of all the songs that we can pull out of our hat there I have maybe three solos that are scripted. So it gets to the solo section and it's just a new song for me again. We're like I'm gonna try that I'm gonna start it over here. I want to play it like this today and sometimes I don't even think of it. I'm just like oh we're in B flat that's my it's my time shot let's play solo and it's the the making it new having it be different even though it could be the same song it's like I have I've got box sets upon box sets of Louis Armstrong CDs and the same songs appear over and over again but the song is different every time there's different players they play different solos it could be the same band that's going to be different solos. It could be the song could be just a different tempo because they didn't I don't you know they were in a different mood that night. And I think that's W what makes m music cool to me and fun is that it's it's like life. It every day's a new day. Even if you gotta go to the same job every day. It's not quite the same every day. And adding that spontaneity and that and that newness to to keep the next day fresh, the next song fresh, the next part of the song, like it's like, oh, what's under there? Oh, I love that part. Oh, you already did that. Don't do that again. Or I d I did that yesterday, but I really like that one part. I won't play that again. Or I that was awesome. What did I just do? I can't remember what I just did. And all of those things are are uh in endearing to me. Like it just um kind of kind of makes me love music and um there's always something to learn, there's always something to get better at. Like you you never perfect it. And um it it's it it's that that's always great for me. And you get to do it with your friends, and sometimes you get to play it in front of your friends too. Yes. So it's like, oh man, it's it's like it's like bonding with other people, both the people you're playing with and the plea people you're playing for. Um whether it's just musically, whether it's lyrically, you can speak to their their their sorrows and and you know just be the soundtrack, just someone's life. I I always thought it was really cool. Like there was a a point when we had been around long enough to where um fans would have me sign CDs, right? And they would have like four CDs. And I'm like, oh man, you guys went big. You could be fans for a hot minute. Like, yeah, okay, tell me which one's your favorite. And I I would try and dodge the question, but if they'd press me or if they knew me, I'd I'd be like, oh, this one's my favorite. But I'll sign all CDs and then I'll look at them, and then I'd be like, let me guess which one is your favorite. And I would kind of try and guess from how old they were, and when like a summer where they would not be in school and they would be traveling to like go to shows and be old enough to maybe drink and have extended party time to where I knew in the back of my mind I'm like, what year was my band or zebrahead the soundtrack to their summer? And they just put this on 10 for like three months while they're going to other shows, going to our shows, like going to festivals, their camp outside at festivals, like which summer would that be been? And I would try and guess like with their age and be like, this one's your favorite record. They're like, oh my god, did you know? I'm like, uh, yeah, you get older and wiser, you start figuring things out. Like that, even like if you're not there, like that that something that you made could affect somebody like that. You know, like Zebrahood's kind of kind of a party band, so like it was always like a good time. You but there's plenty of bands that I love that was like I listen to when I'm sad. And it's like they're the hug that you need when you're not in a good mood. They're the band that makes you think about something in a different way politically. They're the band that makes you angry when you're like, I'm gonna fucking strangle a fucking person. And like, there's different moods that different bands like give you and different music, different songs give you. And and to be able to relate to other people like that is like that that's maybe one of the coolest things about about music like that, to connect with other people. I feel like I'm rambling.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

I love that. No, I love that. I love that. So if a 20-year-old musician asked you how to build a career that lasts 20 years in this industry, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Oh I s I don't know if it was a reel or if I read it in a thread somewhere, but someone asked this question of Willie Nelson, and Willie's response was, I can tell you how I got there and what my story was, but that window closed, and your window is gonna be different, and you gotta figure out what that is for you. And I was like, that's really profound because every artist is different, every time is different, and every like the the moments change and doors open and close before you as you're not even thinking about them sometimes, especially when you're younger, like you you don't you're just in the moment. You I'd especially like when I was younger, I'd give tomorrow a second thought a lot of times. I'm like, I want this now. And as you get older, you're like, maybe you should think about what tomorrow's gonna bring if you do that now. And and I I just thought that was a really great answer um from him of like I can tell you my story. That that that door's closed though. Like, you you're gonna have to find your own way and how that is for you. Um that said, I do think there are some hallmarks of like what it is to try and be successful. Like it's some of that is understanding with the the the the I don't want to say the algorithm because it's not necessarily always the algorithm, but with the industry or with the people, what what the fans want, you gotta be able to connect. And whether that's like you're a Joe Satriani and you connect because you shred and like there's a whole bunch of like guitar players that are just like my mind's blown. Or you connect like a Taylor Swift and you're telling stories that relate to other women and girls about breaking up or um fucking the patriarchy. Um or whether, you know, whether it's about being sad and you're like I, you know, I had this terrible time and I you're like you're like a radio head band. You know, it just depends on what what the song that you're writing and how does it connect to people? How does it relate? And then how are you gonna get them to hear that? So step one, what's what's the art, the medium, the widget, however you want to look at it, how how is that going to relate to the people? And then two, as much as I hate to say it, how you gonna sell them that widget? Are they gonna find out about the widget so that you can touch their lives in a special way? Like it it if nobody's if you don't go out and push you if you're not creating content or running ads or you know, playing shows, or like what how are you going to how's anyone gonna know about the art you've created if you don't uh you're not out there publicizing it in some way? So I I guess those would be like the two hallmarks of what you need to figure out and everybody's story of how that is will be to some varying degrees different.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Yes. Dude, I have really thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and enjoyed this time getting to know each other. We just kind of flew by. Dude, uh I would love to have you on the show again sometime in the future if you're up for it. Yeah, anytime. Man, Greg Bergdorf, formerly of Zebrahead, the Bourbon Brothers band. Ladies and gentlemen, he will be tagged in the episode description of this uh podcast. It'll be tagged in the episode description on Instagram and social media platforms. Greg, thank you so much for doing the show. I was waiting for the question.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

I had like prepped the question on the listening to other episodes.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Oh, you did. Oh no, oh, oh, you're waiting for that question? I kind of I almost avoided it just because of the other last question I'd asked you. What is your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today through your eyes?

SPEAKER_00 52:21

Put down your phone. Stop doom scrolling. There's nothing good that comes out of there. Put a cap, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever it is. We started doing this at my house where there's a no device Sunday, and there's no devices allowed. Sometimes you need to pick up something for work and you're like, God damn it, I gotta get on the phone. But also, so it was actually my wife that decided the no device sundae, but I was like, I love it. I'm in, let's do it. We're enforcing this with the kids. But then, like two weeks into it, I'm like, you know what else I'm gonna name this? This is now vinyl Sunday, because she would inevitably put on Yes, she would tell Google in our kitchen. She'd be like, Google Play Sunday jazz playlist. And I'm like, what is this bullshit? This is AI generated crap. Like, can we at least pick a Miles Davis record or something? Like, don't just tell him to play AI jazz. I'm gonna pull my hair out. And then I said, you know what? F that. We're doing vinyl. I got giant record collection, we got a sweet ass stereo system downstairs, only vinyl on Sundays, period.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yes, yes. Pull out the Bill Evans trio and just be happy with life, man. Holy crap, dude. I absolutely love that. You know, and I I am so sad that we almost missed that question, but I got caught up in the whole what's your advice for the 20 20-year-old to be a musician that I totally forgot it. So good call out because that was a perfect answer, Greg. Thank you so much, dude. Oh, you will, dude. I love it. I love it. And ladies and gentlemen, take his lead. Everybody should have a vinyl Sunday. Man, Greg, thank you so much, man. I'm glad to know you, glad to now call you a friend. Uh, me too. I can't wait to tell more ranch bull stories next time. Yes! Once again, I'd like to thank my friend Greg for jumping on the pod today. It was cool to dive into a little bit of history of Zebrahead. I tell you, when the song Get Back or Feel This Way come up on my gym playlist, I pushed 10 times harder. It's amazing. Make sure you follow Greg on Instagram at Greg underscore Bergdorf. Follow his band at the Bourbon Brothers band also on Instagram. And while you're being generous with the follows, make sure you're following at Caught on the Mike on all social media platforms. Visit my website www.caughtonthemic.com, and please subscribe to my YouTube channel and share out some episodes. Let's build the momentum of the podcast. Turn on somebody that might not have heard this show, do this show. It's the only way to keep the show going. This has been Caught on the Mic with Michael Clark. I'm Michael Clark. Until next time, thank you.