The Hustle Mindset Without Burnout

The Hustle Mindset Without Burnout

Everyone says hustle harder.

Almost no one tells you what that actually means.

And that is why most people burn out instead of breaking through.

In the latest episode of the Built on Solid Rock Podcast, Shaun and John break down what hustle really is, what it is not, and why the people who succeed long term understand the difference between disciplined consistency and chaotic activity.

Because hustle is not hype.

It is not pretending to be busy.
It is not posting about grinding while accomplishing nothing.
And it is not running yourself into the ground trying to prove something.

Real hustle is disciplined execution over time.

It is doing the little things consistently when nobody is watching.
It is making the extra call.
Following up one more time.
Showing up early.
Staying prepared.
Doing the unattractive work day after day until momentum finally shows up.

That mindset is foundational to recruiting success. Solid Rock Recruiting training material describes hustle as “doing all the little, unattractive things on a consistent basis day in and day out.”

That is the difference.

Most people rely on motivation. Hustlers rely on process.

Motivation comes and goes. Discipline does not.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Built on Solid Rock podcast. I'm John Chisholm. I'm here with my compadre Sean Bowen. Sean, how's it going today?

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Way amazing. Way amazing. Beautiful out, man. The weather's gonna be 82 today. We got our master shirts on. Thank you to Nick Shank and the PDC crew out in Springfield Mass for hooking the boys up. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Yeah, man. Those guys are those guys are awesome. He had quite the story. He had quite the story to tell about going out to the masters, being a part of it at that uh exclusive at the exclusive club that he got to be a part of. It's just like I that's it's officially on my bucket list. I want to get out there. I want to get out there. I mean I I do. I want to go walk. I want to uh before I can't walk anymore. I want to walk the grounds. It sounds pretty pretty phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Based on that, you've got about six months left then.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

There is no doubt about that. So today, um, today and and we are sponsored today by Dean's Wiens. Like we we got some they got some pretty cool a pretty cool announcement about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Can we break that announcement here officially? I'm looking at my uh I'm looking at my guy. Can we break that? We can't yet. Soon enough though, we will.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I could really have used a Dean's Wiens this morning. I don't know about you. I'm I'm pretty hungry. Okay. Well, anyway, so so did so today, last time you talked, we we talked from the last time we were here, you're like, what are we gonna talk about today? Well, I'm a little bit of a planner, so I planned it out. So you handed this out la a couple weeks ago to our team.

unknown 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Yeah. What what is what is hustle?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Well, it's kind of an interesting story. Um, so I grew up, as some of you may or may not know, my uh my family owns a lumbyard in Colton, South Dakota. You know Uncle Kent, right? Uncle Kenny. Um, so it's been in our business since or in our family's business since 1957. My dad and my uncle uh bought it in the early 90s. And so I spent uh, you know, um part of my childhood, um, early adulthood working there. And they always had this clipboard with this really old piece of paper on it. And it was this thing right here. It's kind of a, I don't know what you call it if it's a poem. I don't know what you you've read this. I don't know what what do you call this? Is it a poem?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I wouldn't call it a poem, I would call it like a, you know, like a sage advice or yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

We can go, but it was always, you know, this old wrinkled up piece of paper on a clipboard. And I um, this is probably 15 years ago I first saw it. And I asked either my dad or my uncle, like, hey, where'd you guys get that? Well, there was a uh a really well-known lumber salesman who worked uh, you know, wholesale side, because in the lumber business, you always have sales guys dropping by. And this guy, he's probably passed on now, but he gave it to my dad and my uncle, who knows? That could have been 30 years ago. And um, in my so I've been recruiting for it'll be 11 years uh at the end of May, and I've always every couple years, I go back to this Sage advice. Um, you probably remember when we were over at our previous company, I would print this off every couple years, give it to you, maybe give it to a couple other of our compadres. And um, here's the thing about it is like you cannot find it on the internet, right? So, like I had to get the original copy. You can you can find pictures of the I I have of this, no. There's ones we you can try and prove me wrong. But if this exact one, there are ones similar, but if this exact one, I have not been able to find anything, but we can chat about that later. So, but yeah, it's Sage Advice, it's called What is Hustle? And um, I'm assuming that's part of what we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Well, sure. I just here here's the thing. So we talk about our three stones here at Solid Rock Recruiting, the three three big ideas that we have here, and it's honesty, it's integrity, and hustle. Okay. And why why do we have the word hustle in there? Because recruiting and sales is really all about urgency. It's really all about working with intention, working with discipline, working without distraction. Um it's it's like discipline over chaos. It's it's it's uh consistency over intensity. We're not talking about short bursts short bursts of energy. We're talking about consist consistency. So every everybody says in the in the sales game, everybody says hustle harder. I mean, almost no one tells you, no one tells you what that means. Right. And I think that this sheet, this, this sage advice is is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, I think it takes the word hustle and it articulates it really well and puts that into action of what does that actually look like, whether you're a recruiter or you're a homemaker.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Well, I mean, let's let's let's let's do this. So, I mean, what in you in your opinion? I mean, again, having having this sage advice here, what in your opinion, I mean, where do people get hustle wrong? Where do they get it wrong?

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, I mean, and I think, you know, you and I obviously see this. I I think where they get that wrong is well, if I just work, I guess let's say if I just work harder or do more, that means hustle. Sometimes that may or may not be true, right? Sometimes hustle could just be like, well, I'm just gonna work really hard to achieve this goal. Well, you should, but are you doing the correct work, right? Are you putting in the correct inputs? Or are you just looking busy? Or are you just looking busy? That's kind of where I'm going, right? Like, um, you know, you and I have been in the recruiting world for so long, so it's easy for us to talk about that. Uh, but let's scale back to when I was working at my family lumber yard, okay? Now, we had uh a saying there that leaning time is cleaning time, okay? Leaning time is cleaning time. Now, there are different parts of the season in the lumber business where you're not that busy, okay? I was probably when I was younger, I was probably really good at looking busy, but I always probably wasn't doing the right thing. You know, maybe I was sweeping out this shop instead of putting that load together that needs to get out, you know, in a couple days. So, where people get it wrong is in a lot of parts. It's doing the wrong things with the right intensity, right? Maybe doing the right things with the wrong intensity.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Or the time, or or even the timing. So, like in like we we can we can any any business that's out there, we're in the recruiting business, so we understand that really, really well. Any business that out that is out there can say that there's things that you need to do on a day-to-day basis, absolutely positively, right? So, like in our business, we we want to see people doing outbound con outbound contacts, but we want them to do the right outbound contacts. I mean, I remember a story back at the at the old at the old company where a person, the requirement was a hundred outbound phone calls a day. That's what that's kind of like where we st where you and I both started out at. But we actually heard about a person, you probably heard about the person that called Walmarts. Yeah, I've heard it all. Walmarts, airports, airports, whatever. And they called a bunch of numbers that that meant nothing. So they spent their entire day on the phone just so that they can get the dials up, but they didn't talk to anybody of any consequence. Right? Yeah, that that that's the oldest trick in the book. Yep, and I'd rather have someone call 10 people with intention and that that make that make absolute sense than call a hundred people with no intention, just a waste, just a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Well, and here's the thing, like in this, and at some point in time we will read this and actually we'll probably post this out there, right, with this episode.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Hustle, hustle, part of hustle is actually um customer service, right? So hustle is making the sale because you got there first or stayed with it after everyone else gave up. So in our world right now, and you know this, we've got a lot of companies that are relying on us, truly relying on us, that we work for the most part exclusively with, that are relying on us to go out there and fill those positions, right? So if we say we're gonna do it and we're not working on it, you know, like that's not hustling. So like there's well, it's also not honesty. It's also not not not honesty.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

And it's not integrity, correct. And that's what we want. I mean, we want from the top to the bottom, our companies do rely on us, but we want from the top to the bottom, every one of our recruiters, you know, we're a capitalistic company, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

We are.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

So the thing is is our recruiters are 100% commissioned in in essence. I mean, that's I mean, that's what they are. That's where they make a line share of their money. So it's integrity to put in integrity and hustle to put in a a good day's work. So that instead of we don't want them being conf confusing themselves with being busy with being productive, right? We want them to be productive, not just busy. So what does that look like? Um, how can you put how can you put numbers on it? Or how can you you you can't, okay? Hustle is kind of like a like a term, like a term that's kind of it's out there, but but what we're trying to do with this sage advice is we're trying to put that put a put it into a solid pic into a solid picture. Right, and put it on the right path, right? Right on a direct path. So so an example in a business might be, like you said, leaning time is cleaning time. I mean, um Uncle Kenny has told me a number of stories about about what you would do when you were quote unquote leaning, right? Back in back in the day. Oh yeah, back in the day, yeah. So, but but what what what is it? I mean, what does real hustle in your mind, if you could articulate it, and it this might be might be difficult, if you could articulate it, what does hustle look like in the day-to-day of a business?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

See, that's the thing. I don't have to come up with anything new. So hustle is doing something that everyone is absolutely certain can't be done. We could just pause there. Hustle is making a sale because you got there first or stayed with it after everyone else gave up. And then it keeps going on. Hustle is being the source loser in town. Hustle is hating to take vacation because you miss, you might miss a piece of the action. I mean, then there's so much more in this. So I think each line, right? Kind of like a verse. Each line is like a verse, or every two lines is a verse that articulates it. Um, because hustle isn't just working hard. Cause I think when when we hear hustle or the general public hears hustle, yeah, it's working hard. I'm gonna run faster. Okay. Well, I want to run faster towards whatever goal I'm set out, you know, to take on, right? And it's not just in our world picking up the phone more. It could be utilizing all of the other tools and resources effectively, right? Um, and then that carries over into the honest uh communication with our clients. Hey, we are working on this. Unfortunately, we don't have anything to speak for it yet, right? We've we've talked to the 20 candidates in this market. We've hit them. Here's what we've done. We've sent LinkedIn messages, we've sent text messages, we've called, we've sent emails, we've been on Indeed, we've been on the job boards. We're hustling, we're doing all the right things, but it's gonna take time. So, like, that's where the hustle bleeds over into honesty or tech.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

You know, hustles much much more than just But it's also it's it's also creativity and not making excuses, not making excuses. Not making excuses. That's the whole big that's the whole big thing about it. I mean, and and here's the thing, it it also involves a lot of a lot of it it has to come from within. It has the drive has to come from within. There has to be a why at the end of the rainbow to say this is why we're doing this, this is why we're motivated. We like to we like to hire people that have a good why about I mean, because reality is that in this business, you can make a lot of money, but this business also really, really is terrible if you don't have if you don't have a reason.

unknown 11:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

If you don't have a reason to come to come to work every day, jump out of bed every morning. And this, you know, that that all goes, it all builds into this. So so I mean, here's the thing you can you you can talk yourself into being really, really motivated, really, really hyped up. But why does motivation fail long term? And and why, I mean, and and really does it? Why I mean why does relying on motivation or being motivated on a day-to-day basis fail long term?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

That's a great question. Um I and I I can only speak from from my own experience. I mean, and I've never really read any books on motive motivation. Um, and I'm not one of those people who needs to be motivated all the time. There's times where you know motivation comes and goes, right? But the why, and I I think you bring up a good point. Like there has to be in anything in life, not just in our business, but in anything in life, what even with marriage, right? I mean, uh, whether you're dating, like you're not just dating somebody just so you can buy a house and have kids because you you have a view of the American dream. All those things are are great things, right? Um, but there has to be this, however, we can articulate it the best, we call it the why. Because like a motivation to me in our world is like, all right, I want to get three interviews lined up this week. Okay, well, what happens when when that doesn't happen, right? If that is like your pure motivation, like that is like your goal, and that and what happens if that doesn't happen? Are you just gonna be have have the you know your your the wind sucked out of your sails, right? Or is the motivation like, hey, I want to, you know, a lot of people that work for us kind of have this same goal. Not not everybody, a lot of people are like, hey, I want my significant other to stay home and raise our kids. Okay. And so like that is a much more long-term why. And there's motivation built into that, right? To produce and do your job. And so why does motivation fail? Well, if the motivation fails, then we have to scale back. We have to dig deeper and say, okay, like why why did you even start on this process in the beginning? You know what I mean? That's not to say that we can't be motivated on short-term goals. We should be. We should be 100%.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Right. But it also we're talking about building up consistency. I think, I think being persistent and being consistent are two tools that we need to have in our toolbox as recruiters, as salespeople, right? We can talk talk about salespeople. We we we say we're recruiters, not salespeople. We don't want to be we're dude, we're all the above.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Everybody, everybody You know, you you've said, oh, we're not recruiters, we're not we're not recruiters, we're headhunters. No, we're all the we're all the above.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, we are. We're all the above, right? But the bottom line is we use sales in every day in everyday life, right? You know, Tommy want weenie. Yeah, exactly. Tommy want Dean Weenie. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, Deeny Weenie. Yeah, yeah. How can we get one of those?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

All right, so so but so Hey, for we have to say we have to market that one more time at our podcast, right? At some point, at some to fulfill the contract. Okay, just making sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

So, what does a winning so consistency is the key here? So, what does that winning daily process look like? I mean, we can talk about it again in recruiting, but a daily process, what does that look like? And it looks, I think it looks different for everybody, but I think process and consistency is really, really important. Like we say, you know, you've got to make X number of phone calls every single day, consistently, day in and day out. But what does that look like? What does that truly look like in to to bring it around to hustle?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't look like just picking up the phone and making six 60 calls or 100, whatever, you know, or going and knocking on 20 doors, right? Um, like I said, I I I know I don't run a desk so much right now, but if I do, I might make five or ten calls on a very specific job. But there's a deep when when I get on the phone with somebody, there's about a 70% chance I'm going to engage with them in a positive conversation. Okay. Because there's something internally with inside me that is like, no, dude, this is a phenomenal opportunity. And I know, I know that you're not looking right now. Okay. I get that, but just hear me out. Okay. So there's a uh there's something within that activity, right? That activity, whether it's the calls or the messages or the knocking on doors, whatever you're doing, there has to be something internally. Like I know this, and I you you probably hear me come uh, you know, the uh come in the office sometimes in the mornings. Like, I do, I do have a burden on me. You probably do too. I lose sleep when we're not filling positions for especially our really, really good clients that are relying on. Like I lose sleep, not because I know that we have a million dollars sitting out there to produce, that's great. But I lose sleep because I know that we can fill these and I know that we have to fill these in order for our clients to be successful. Okay. And so, so part of that passion is when I'm engaging in whatever activity.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

And not just our clients, right? Our each of our each of our individual recruiters. We know we we know, and sometimes I think sometimes I think as business owners, we take it so so so so seriously. We take it so hard. I I don't lose sleep because I'm worried about it, because I know it can because I know it can be done. I know we're gonna get it done. I have that, I have that resiliency. But we want it done now, but we want it done now, and we want it done, and I and I also lose sleep when I think we're not doing it as well as we can do, right? What we're not hitting, when we're not hitting it 100% of the time, I lose sleep about that. And so for me, my process and my consistency is all about doing the same thing at the same time every single day. And and it's something that I developed at the last company after I got knocked down for months, for months and months and months. And so I found a pattern that I had to follow on a daily basis that I do every single day, which keeps my pipeline full. And we talk about this chopping wood and carrying water. I have a full, you know, I have a full pile of wood right now. I got a I got a full pile. But whenever I throw a piece of wood into that fire, I gotta replace, I gotta replace that piece of wood. And so that's what kind of that's what kind of drives me. I want to be first. I want to be first to every single candidate. I want to be first to every single job order that's out there. I want to be the first one that gets to that, you know, gets to that person and gets gets in front of that that potential company. I want to be that person. I want to win the race. I've got that chip on my shoulder. That's what kind of drives me to say to stay consistent. And and that consistency breeds for me motivation. So um, I mean, what how did you how did you learn discipline? I mean, how did you learn how did you how did you get to the point where you are right now as far as being disciplined in your process?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, I mean, my my discipline looks a lot different than most people. Um, I'm not a a super process oriented guy, never have been. I've tried to be and I'm just not, but I'm a get crap done kind of guy. I mean, you've worked with me for nine years at this point. Um, so I'm not very process-oriented, but I'm very goal-oriented. And what does that look like? Well, the where the discipline comes in is very simple for me. In my mind, this is how I articulate it. I've got a company that has a need, and they're, and they're, and they have a need because you you and I both know this companies hire people for two reasons to make money or save money. Okay. And so for me, the discipline comes in into just like it's very obvious to me. We have a company that has a need, they're ready to rock and roll, they're great to work with, and we have to fill that position. So I have to be disciplined. Now, my processes in getting that are gonna look different, but it so I I'm not like, okay, I every morning at this time I'm doing this, I'm doing this. I have some of those things that I that I've done for years, but how did I become disciplined? Well, I think to be to excel at anything, um, I like I said, I don't care if it's running a business, running a desk. Um, I look at my wife as an example. She's a homemaker, and every single morning, and she's very process-oriented, every single morning she puts in a load of laundry. Every single morning. That's how I know when she's up, because I'm up well before her, and I know when she's up because I know the sound of the dryer and I know the sound of the washer.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

When you got three little kids at home, you gotta run that laundry every single day.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, and the washer was broke the last couple days, so we had to get that fixed. But um, so I think just to excel at anything, there has to be some level of discipline, but it's a matter of, you know, it's gonna look different for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

I think I I would I would agree that I would agree absolutely. So um, so the next question with hustle is I mean, because hustle is is hustle, again, this this is so fantastic, but how can hustle turn into burnout?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Well, it can if you're, as we've talked about, if you're doing the wrong things, right? If you're doing if you're doing the wrong things. So you might have a false sense of hustle, right? You might have a false feeling of hustle. And I think anybody in sales or in recruiting experiences that.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Well, let me give you an example here. I'm I'm gonna take it off of here. It says hustle is hating to take a vacation because you might miss a piece of the action. It's it they call it nowadays the kids call it FOMO, fear of missing out, right? And so I experienced that a lot, I experienced that a lot. I mean, when I started out in the recruiting business, I literally it it drove my wife crazy. And it was, it was a it was a fight that we were it was a fight that we were in because I would go on vacation and I would be out there recruiting because I love it. And I don't, but see that that's where that chip on my shoulder was so massive because somebody beat me, someone beat me to the punch. And I hated that. But there is a balance in hustle, and that's what we're talking about when we say hustle, because I believe hustle is consistency, doing consistent right actions um on a regular basis consistently through a period of time, is gonna build that pipeline, is gonna build that thing so much, so much so that you can actually take a vacation and not worry about missing out. But it's also about building a team around you that has that same motivation that you do. So that as a business owner, uh when I go, I'm I'm leaving for 10 days. You are. You haven't told me that. Yeah, I'm I'm yeah, I'm leaving for 10 days. Ten days. Yeah, yeah. As a business owner, I know that when I'm gone for 10 days, I don't have to bring a phone with me. I don't have to bring a computer with me. Do you want my burner phone? I I do want your burner phone. But and and and you and you did that yourself. But but and and you know that when you leave for a month or so, when when when when the blessed event arrives, that that I'm gonna be here on a day-to-day basis backing backing you up so that you don't have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Well, and no, no, you've got a good point. I think the other thing gets back to discipline though as well. Like a hustler, a true hustler, is gonna know when they have to go fill up the tank. Yes. Okay. And there's discipline in that too.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Especially in a job like this, like you have to know. And we've got some of these new guys that are doing really well. They've been doing it. Uh, you know, Tyler and Jake, two top billers. This is only their second, they they just are hitting your number two, and they're starting to figure out that balance, right? Um, because there is a balance there. They're starting to have that discipline. Like, I can't do everything. It's okay, bro. Like, take a break, man. Go, go golf, go on uh, you know, go go go wherever, go to Nashville. And so, so also a true hustler who's been doing it for a period of time is also going to have the discipline to say, you know what, like I'm gonna step away for a little bit. But what happens when they come back? It's like, man, it's like you just took like this dying flower that was just holding on, and you you put some, I don't know, uh, you put some fertilizer or whatever fertilizer on it and water and some sunshine, and it just it just keeps growing, right? So it's all of those things, right? It's the consistency, the persistency, it's the building the culture around you, right? Like infecting, imputing that attitude to the people around you. And then it's also having the discipline, not just in your day-to-day systems or processes, but also knowing that's probably the only part of that thing that I don't like on that one, is on the vacation part.

unknown 24:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Right. Because it says hustle is hating to take vacation because you might miss a piece of the action. And that's honestly the only part of this that I I have a uh a philosophical issue with. Now, I think that you and I can um can um can can exposite it. I can I can res I can resonate on it. I can resonate, but I think we can also bring context to it, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

So like I don't hate to take a vacation.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

We used to.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

And I still have I still have that, you know, I still have that wonder in the back of my mind is everything getting done? But that's also pride.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah. Oh totally, yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Pride and it nothing's gonna happen unless if I'm involved. Nothing's gonna get done, nothing's gonna get, and it's not trust, and and it's and it and it it goes into the culture, right? The culture of that that's where micromanagement comes from, right? Is the belief that nobody can do it as well, I nobody can do it as well as I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Well, and I think I want to hop on that. Um, I think I want to hop on on that part is like, you know, we've been doing this for about two and a half years now, just actually not quite two and a half years. And one of the hardest parts for us was like giving up our clients, right? Because um a lot of our clients followed us. And um, and and and in and in addition to that, we also built up new clients while we were, you know, every day running a desk. But we didn't want this company to be built just on our efforts, and we very well could have just said, you know what, we're gonna hold on to everything. And we did. We held on to some things for too long.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Unfortunately, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

You know, but we did learn our lesson with that. Um, but there was pride there, right? Like there was pride, like, oh, no one's gonna do it as good as us, no one's gonna be able to have the type of attitude. But we made, I would say, that was a risk, right? That's gonna have a long-term re reward with that, and already has had a reward with that, because you and I both know that these door guys, for example, are doing much better than us, right? In terms of managing and doing those things. We have another division. But there was a moment where we had to say, you know what? We're gonna teach our guys how to do this, right? We want to see them succeed more than ourselves, okay? And there's hustle involved into that. There's integrity involved in it because there's honesty. Like, no, we can't, we really don't have the time to really manage this client. And we've had to, I don't know about you, but I know I've had to make some calls like, hey, whatever, John Doe, I really love working with you guys. I just don't have the time and effort to get you know, to run a business and to run the business and do these things. So you're Ryan's gonna be your new point of contact.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

So I mean, and and and and that is it, that is a big thing. But what I wanted to get around, what I want to get to too, as far as the vacation though, is as far as the pride goes and everything like that, that also builds into the culture, right? So you make promises as as a business owner. We make, you know, I try not to make promises. Since we're commission-based, we don't say, okay, you've got you know 10 days of PTO, but we talk to people all the time that you know the culture is such that they feel guilty. They've got they've got you know 10 weeks of vacation stacked up if the company allowed them to take 10 weeks of vacation. It's promised to them, the PTO's promised to them, but they're not allowed to take it. They're they're made to felt feel guilty for taking it. And that and and and that is a huge, a huge culture destroyer in my mind. Because when you make promises, a promise is a vacation. That means that for for me, when I walk in and I say it's a vacation, if I've got 12 days, if I've got 12 days of vacation built up and I want to take 10 of those, I feel like I ought to be able to take 10 of those wherever I'm at. Now, of course, I'm gonna hand off my project to somebody else, they're gonna know all about my project, but I ought to be able to do that. Um, and I ought to be able to trust and have a culture built in such a way that they're gonna take this, take, take that with the same seriousness that I take it, right? So that's the biggest thing. So now this is a big question for for for for you, and we've seen it happen a couple times in the business. How do you reset without losing that momentum?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Yeah, that's a great, you know. I've been doing this, I'm the longest tenured recruiter here, and I'll never let any anybody forget that. Um, and so I've been doing this at 11 year for 11 years. That is not kidding you, dude. Think about this, John. That's one third of my life. Yeah. Okay, dude. That's one third of my life. Yeah, that's that's it's I'm I'm 33.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah, it's not much, it's not much of my life.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah, no, it's not. And um, and so the way that I reset is a little probably similar to most people. Um, I've got a growing family, so vacations are kind of whatever. But you know, I've got my hobbies. Um, you know, there's days where you're probably like, where'd Sean go for a few hours? Well, I'm probably right now it's Purple Martin season. So, as you know, I'm a big purple martin landlord. If you don't know what they are, check them out. They're the most amazing uh backyard bird. And I just for whatever reason, the way that God designed me, I have I just have an infatuation with them. And um, and I literally, it just brings so much peace to me. And so the way I reset is I I I'm kind of like those guys, like I kind of like drive a motorcycle, so I can go about a hundred miles on a tank, and then it takes me like three gallons of gas to fill up. You know, so like I don't need these big things. Some sometimes I do. But um the way that I refill I don't know. I like working. I like uh I'll tell you what fills me up is when we make placements. I don't know, you know, like when when that's with any that's with any salesperson. Yeah, like like like when I see like people are producing and doing well, that really that really fills my tank, right? Like that's like the 15-minute Tesla charger.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Right. But but but see that motivation lasts last about five minutes. Are we sponsored by Tesla? No, we're not sponsored by Tesla, but but that motivation lasts for about five minutes because if you're if you're a real recruiter, a real headhunter, you you want to go and we always say this. So I mean, what's the best thing to do after making a placement? Go make another one, right? That's the best thing to do. So I mean, when what when when you go on vacation or if you go on vacation, coming back to coming back to a pile of papers, so to speak, and all the all these things, how do you reset? I mean, how do you how do you get that momentum moving backward back forward again?

SPEAKER_01 30:08

I don't know. I don't even like dude, like I've been doing this for more than a decade. So like it's not even like a process in my mind that I have to think about.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

You just just hop back in.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

I just hop back in and and I and I'm sure that there's more to it than that, but you know, um there's there's companies that need us, and there's people that need us. And so that for me is just enough to kind of get get going, to really get after it. It's like, all right, guys.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I think the biggest thing, I think the biggest thing is is that you love what you do. I mean, I yeah, I literally hop out of bed every morning because I get to I get to come.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, it's great, dude. I love coming to work, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

I get to come, I get to come and recruit, right? I get to come hang out with the guys, recruit, get some, get some, get some uh placements made, get some money made. So so to close, if if if someone feels stuck right now, whether it be one of your recruiters downstairs or or somebody in business right now, if they feel stuck right now, what's the first thing that they should change tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Well, I think that they need to go back to their why. You know, we have conversations with our recruiters um and they lose motivation or whatever, or sometimes they're really motivated. But I think the question is, is like, why why did you decide to go on the path that you're on right now? Right? You have to and sometimes they have to be reminded and they have to remind themselves. It's no different than like a candidate who we've been working with, we're getting an offer, and it's everything that that candidate's looking for. I mean, literally, everything and more. And they're like a little bit hesitant. It's like, wait a minute, why did we even start this process? Right? And so I think for whatever it is, like why you have to go back to that and you have to dig in deep and figure out why are we here? What are we doing? And this sounds kind of cliche, but I think you have to get to the core of that. And they might say, Well, I hate what I'm doing, but well, why? Because of this. All right, well, maybe you need to make a career change, or maybe you need to do something else, right? Which is okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

And the thing too is that we also can go to the Bible and to something that you've said many, many times. Just need to go back to your first love, right? You need to go back to what you did at first. You you tell people this all the time, right? You say, Look, sometimes sometimes I just have to go back to the basic. Oh, yeah. Sometimes I just have to figure, I have to figure it out. What did I do when I was being successful?

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah, so you typically see that with people who are successful early on and they have one, two, three good years, whatever, even people um who've been doing this for six years, like, all right, we you have to go in your mind and on your desk. You you have to say, okay, what was I doing like the first six months or seven months I was here or anywhere, right? Like in a recruiting context. And so, yeah, you do have to go back to you have to be able to go back there in your mind to say, okay, I was doing this level of activity that led to the to to the six to the success I've had. Now I've had a couple dry months, right? I've had a couple bad months, it's okay, but you have to go back and start that start that hustle again.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

And and maybe that hustle and focused in specific specific areas. Like yeah, that's very important. You don't want to take your you don't want to take your foot off the gas too much. Sometimes you you're really, really going, you're really, really wrong. You kind of take your foot off the I'm feeling good, I'm feeling good. I can take my foot off the gas. You got to go back to those things that got you there. Correct. You have to go back consistently and persistently.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

And and then and that's part of hustle, right? Like part of hustle is being able to shift, being able to shift at the right time. At the right time, right? Because if you're driving a car really fast and all of a sudden you come to uh a turn, you have to be able to shift and make the right decision to make that turn, whatever you know, analogy you want to use. But uh a true hustler is gonna have the the mental capacity, right, to to review what's going on, or they might need someone to come alongside of them. But a true hustler is gonna be able to readjust, to make shifts, to say, okay, I was doing that, that led to this, I've been doing this, it's not working out. Okay, well, the logic would tell you that I should just go back and do that. And that's where the consistency, the persistency, the discipline.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

It's like it's like it's like and you know, and we'll close with this. It's like Rocky Balboa said, it doesn't matter, kid, how hard you get hit. It matters how hard you can get hit and get back up. Get back up. Yep. Maybe I misquoted that.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Well, maybe you didn't though.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Well, maybe I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Right? But you did you deliver it with passion and with confidence, which is also part of hustle.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah, absolutely. So this has been uh Solid Built on Solid Rock Podcast uh with my compadre Sean Bowen. I'm John Chisholm. Come back for the next one. We only got two Dean's Wings in there.