Pritesh:
[0:19] This episode I want to kick off with a question I have for you. Are you ready for it Neena?

Neena:
[0:24] Let's go.

Pritesh:
[0:25] Right. Do you remember your first ever lesson that you taught in your career?

Neena:
[0:32] Oh my gosh. I mean I remember it and I don't remember it. So when I look back on it I could not tell you what the topic was, what I taught or anything like that. It was pretty much a blur because it was an absolute disaster oh no and all i remember more than the lesson itself was the aftermath where i after i dismissed all of the kids i closed my door i sat down at my desk i put my head in my hands i kid you not and i actually said aloud to myself why did i voluntarily choose to change my career and become a teacher i don't think this is going to work out for me true story

Pritesh:
[1:19] Okay right we have to rewind from the ending of this story like what on earth happened in this lesson.

Neena:
[1:25] Just so much not great stuff i also think that i believed i was gonna absolutely smash it and that was just so far from the truth I think I said it was a blur, but I have these little sort of snapshots coming back into my memory. So I think it was a really large class, but I just kept having kids randomly rock up at various points of the lesson. Half of them weren't even on my register. And I think I had about 10 TAs in the room at any given point as well. So it was a lot to deal with.

Pritesh:
[2:01] Wow. Did you actually have 10 TAs in your classroom?

Neena:
[2:04] There might be a slight exaggeration, but in my defence, at the end of my NQT year, our lovely mentor held a little celebration ceremony for all of us. And we all got awarded with a prize and a certificate that kind of embodied our training. And mine was for handling or managing the highest number of TAs in the school. So I'm going to stand by that number of 10, although that's probably a slight exaggeration. okay

Pritesh:
[2:32] So that okay that sounds really challenging I would love to meet NQT Neena and just see NQT Neena's lessons and see what was going.

Neena:
[2:42] On oh gosh you really wouldn't but it's interesting isn't it when we reflect back on those early days of our practice so we knew absolutely nothing um and like I said that was a disaster I had many awful lessons um and there's obviously so much that I've worked on and developed and changed about my practice but I think there's also some elements that I think yeah like even in my early years it kind of still remains true today just different things you know aspects about your persona the way you connect to and build relationships with kids and stuff like that so yeah yeah

Pritesh:
[3:19] Because there's an like a real authentic who you are your persona in the classroom is not something that like training can help you, tap into different elements of your persona but as you say the fundamental way you connect with people that's just part of who you are is is not going to change that's a really really interesting point.

Neena:
[3:40] So go on, tell me what was your your first lesson? Was it sort of world class from the very first from the very first second from the word go?

Pritesh:
[3:50] I absolutely smashed it.

Neena:
[3:51] Yeah, I knew it.

Pritesh:
[3:52] Obviously not. So I actually think the lesson went decently in a sense that no there was no no one was misbehaving in the lesson. But boy, was that a false sense of security I was lulled into because they were sussing me out. It's that like honeymoon period it was honeymoon doesn't it.

Neena:
[4:12] And then you get you like exactly and then you start thinking you're actually good at this and you've got

Pritesh:
[4:16] It yeah i mean yeah the naivety is just yeah but i i remember they were working silently beautifully independently writing away and i thought and this links to something i said earlier about praise, i thought oh shall i say like well done i'm loving how focused we are in this room or praising them and i thought i remember with that thought process and thinking, no, if I say that, then I'm gonna disturb, first of all, I'm gonna disturb the silence, but second of all, they're gonna think, oh, sir's saying well done for this, that means that this is not what's expected of us. And I just thought it would all become a car crash. Little did I know that me not praising the kids would be why over time, it would be a car crash. And like about a couple of weeks in, I remember a girl saying, like we used to give praise points to the kids. And I remember just partway through the lesson, in exasperation, this girl said, oh, I'm never going to get a praise point in this lesson. And I was just like, this is a sign that things are going really badly. But yeah, we can talk more about that class another time. But it's interesting, isn't it? Like the false sense of security, but the laying it's like I can just

Pritesh:
[5:31] if only I'd known in hindsight how that where that would lead to.

Neena:
[5:34] I know right but we learn through experience yes

Pritesh:
[5:37] Exactly exactly so let's go to our scenario from the last episode do you want to just briefly recount to our listeners what scenario they were pondering over the last week or so.

Neena:
[5:49] Yep so imagine that you're a teacher and as you're reflecting on your lesson afterwards you realize that it's become quite a pattern where you seem to be praising and rewarding the same kind of group of kids quite you know regularly but there's actually a significant number who you're not really praising or kind of acknowledging within the lesson and they're kind of going largely unnoticed like what do you do to remedy this

Pritesh:
[6:19] Yes and i think that, This is a hard one, perhaps to realize until somebody often tells you that that's what's going on. And I think often teachers realize this when they either get feedback about it or in some way, shape or form, you're gathering that data. So I think the best trick that I've come across to transform this is very simple. But every lesson for the teacher to print out a seating plan of the class and it's set up in the orientation so that from the teacher's perspective so the bottom left of your page is the student at the bottom left of your classroom, and every time you give praise to an individual pupil you've got your clipboard in hand and you tick their name, tick sheets fundamentally is what this is and i found that this has been utterly transformative in lessons.

Neena:
[7:21] Okay so going back a step so you mentioned seating plan so what kind of criteria are you using when you're creating the seating plan in your room in the first place

Pritesh:
[7:32] Oh okay so seating plans when you i guess when you know don't really know a class, I think the simplest thing to do is, well, you've got to think about what the principles are, what makes a good seating plan. Fundamentally, the kids are there because they are there to learn. And in order for them to learn really well, they need to have really good attention in the classroom. So that's one key criteria that I'd want to optimize for. So if you have a row of four kids and they're absolutely best friends, they are always together having an absolute blast of their lives. As fun as it might tempting as it might be to put them together it's probably not going to result in the best learning for them so it's probably best to, some way or the other put pupils next to pupils that they're going to focus really well with and be really attentive with.

Pritesh:
[8:24] And that can be a range of things that you can do it might you might not get to know the class a little bit first but you could go for classic boy girl on your seating arrangement, or you could look at if you know the class a little bit just think about who's going to work well together next to each other not distract each other i think that's the most fundamental thing, um but then there's even like the layout of your classroom like i've done all sorts when i started my first lesson it was definitely rose because i just instinctively went for rose and then i was seduced by the idea that, that i shouldn't be imparting knowledge and the kids need to be learning a lot more from each other so i changed to a horseshoe configuration yes and then that was an absolute desire as soon as i did that within a week i got told, i got sworn at by a pupil and then i thought oh my gosh this is not working um, and then i did pods so i had a little science lab and there was like pods of eight with that means i had a quarter of my class with their back to me because i was thinking i was.

Pritesh:
[9:28] And then that didn't go very well because, again, I was then trying to teach them stuff. But it was really hard to get the attention of the eight kids whose backs were to me. And they were also all facing each other. So they kept distracting each other. And I honestly think Rose is the best for most subjects. Obviously, if there's, you know, in PE or whatever, that's not going to work. But in most subjects, Rose works best in my view. So those are the two things I think about for seating plan.

Neena:
[9:56] Okay.

Pritesh:
[9:57] What are your thoughts on that?

Neena:
[9:59] I agree with what you've said. I like the idea of thinking about focusing on like attention. So what's going to support the kids to be paying attention. So being really mindful about dynamics and friendship groups and things like that. Why Rose in particular? Is that also serving the purpose of supporting kids focusing more on lessons?

Pritesh:
[10:21] Yeah I think so is it just if you're facing the teacher and the teaching the board whatever the kids need to be looking at to attend to new information you you know where that knowledge is coming from like you want them looking at the board like if they're looking or elsewhere just the chances of them being distracted we're not setting them up for success I think that's such an important mantra isn't it set them up for success, um so they can learn lots and, I do believe in that model where the teacher is giving really clear explanations and models because they're the expert in the room and the kids are learning from them they need to be able to look at the teacher and see you know if it's an art lesson they need to see the modeling under the visualizer for example how to hold a paintbrush how to hold a pencil if it's an english lesson you know looking at the board looking at that analysis and the annotations together whatever it might be facing the teaching is key.

Neena:
[11:13] Yeah that makes sense facing forwards helps you to focus um and less distractions So here's a rogue comment or question because now you've kind of taken me back

Neena:
[11:24] decades to when I first started teaching. I remember at some point in my first year, a more experienced colleague suggested that if I was ever feeling a little bit more kind of confident to do something maybe a little bit rogue, which was to have my first lesson with a brand new class, wait for it, with no seating plan devised in advance at all and her rationale was if you just let kids sit wherever they choose to initially it's a really clever way for teachers to gauge who like where the friendship groups actually are and then the second lesson you do actually create a seating plan and make sure that you see everyone away from the pupils that they chose to seat themselves with before and apparently she tried it and uh the kids absolutely hated her after that when they realized what a ploy it was but she still suggested that it might be something to try out uh i can see by your facial expression i don't think this is something that you'd really advocate yourself but i just wanted to put it out there we're making assumptions about seating plans but you know yeah

Pritesh:
[12:34] I do you know what i think i love this scenario this this is like a scenario talking point because Because there's a subtle point here which is, As teachers, like, it can feel mean to think, oh, I'm separating friends. But it's no, we are making sure that they are successful in the classroom. But I think it's so crucial you don't do what you've just suggested there, that whoever said that, you let them sit where they want, then separate them. Because we don't want to communicate to the kids. The message to the kids isn't, I don't want you to sit with your friends. Because that's not actually the rationale that you are not seating them like that for. It's not, I don't want you to be with your friends. It's, I want to help you to give your best attention. And I think that's such a great way of helping illustrate that point and why I would never advocate for that because the kids are gonna, as you say, they didn't like that teacher because they don't see the benefit. They're just seeing something's being taken away from me that I was previously told that I could have. And what the reasoning here is that the teacher doesn't want me to sit next to my friend and not all kids will be so perceptive that they'll be thinking about my learning and focus and attention is more important than me being with my friends because that's not the way kids will be thinking that's the way teachers should be thinking it's our duty to be thinking like that,

Pritesh:
[13:58] and doing that in a way that doesn't lose the buy-in from the kids.

Neena:
[14:01] Yeah okay fab right well let's put that to bed then all right never ask Pritish Raichura about rogue non-seating plans okay so uh you've created a seating plan focusing on what's gonna support the kids to pay attention set them up for success you uh printed a copy out and then what's what's the next step so i'm at the beginning of my lesson how am i using this

Pritesh:
[14:31] Yeah so as soon as you recognize that someone's doing the right thing, tick for you so the stuff we talked about last week about giving warm specific named praise when you say loving that straight arm up nina that's a tick for you and you can put the tick there and then, And another example, if a kid gives a brilliant answer and they say, you know, use the word photosynthesis beautifully, because obviously that's the only thing I teach, according to you.

Neena:
[15:01] Well, I mean, it's pretty much an undisputable fact. I mean, come on.

Pritesh:
[15:06] And you can say, oh, Peter, the use of that word photosynthesis. Wow. Tick for you. And it sounds really subtle and very so it sounds really simple but the impact that that then has is you are generating a heat map in your class exactly where pupils are answering questions and then you can notice and see oh, nina's got a tick pete's got a tick but i haven't yet asked a question or praised, someone else james hasn't been recognized yet let's make sure that we maybe i'll ask him a question i'll look out for him and see if he is he doing anything i can give a praise to and that answers that point that you are the scenario which is how do you deal with this, potential issue of neglecting some pupils and always giving praise to others in the classroom, and it just means you're more likely to get to more of the kids and it's fascinating because you know with teachers that i've worked with where i've been recommending this and you know I've learnt this from other schools and other contexts myself. This is not kind of my idea at all. But the way that it's kind of evolved is if a school doesn't have a system where you're logging particular merits or points, just saying tick for you, tick for you is just so powerful because it. Just gives them a sense of recognition it's like stamping and rewarding a particular behavior that you want to reinforce in the classroom.

Neena:
[16:34] It's really visible isn't it so they're not necessarily seeing you like the actual tick on your clipboard on the seating plan but they're they're seeing you go through the process of ticking it and you're obviously verbalizing it because it is still the principle of that warm precise named praise you're accompanying it with that physical tick and you're making a bit of a show of it um but you said it doesn't need to kind of um be then sort of arduous or need any follow-ups such as kind of being logged and then you know teacher workload and all of that jazz

Pritesh:
[17:08] Yeah exactly i think it's just the praising of itself is just transformative um, and then what's even more wonderful about that is there's lots you can do at the end of a lesson as you approach the end of a lesson and you can look at that and then you can really narrate that really well, in terms of summarize the lesson and I know that you've been you've seen lots of lessons where this has been done really well and something you've done lots as well so do you want to tell us a little bit about what how does that work at the end of a lesson once you've got your ticks on your tick sheet you're coming to the end of the lesson how might you use that to just inject even more warmth and, love and positivity into the room Yeah.

Neena:
[17:50] And before I answer that directly, it's just kind of made me think it's almost serves, I was gonna say, not necessarily a dual purpose, there's lots of purposes to it. But the dual purpose in the sense that it's like a benefit to the child to like the individual students in the class that they're receiving praise. And we talked last week about how that's such a strong lever for motivation. But actually, what I really like is this idea of how useful it is for the teacher, because essentially, you're collecting data on how the class is doing. I think you use the phrase like a heat map. So kind of every so often, you can just look down and immediately you can just make this sort of instantaneous assessment of how each student in the class is doing, how they've participated and contributed and met all your expectations,

Neena:
[18:41] which is great. I think a couple of comments that I've really, when I've observed teachers using this well, that I've really liked is when they're not just glancing down to have a look

Neena:
[18:53] To determine which student to go to next, perhaps someone who they haven't gone to, but they're also sort of verbalising that thought process to the class. It's like oh haven't who haven't i heard from today for example and i just think that's really beneficial for the kids and really motivating in and of itself because it indicates to them or reminds them of the extra teacher's expectation they expect you to be participating and contributing and being an active learner in the lesson but also that's something that you really value and they're trying to seek you out to give you that praise like they they you need to deserve it but They're supporting you to get it and to receive it from them, which is great. So I think it's useful during the whole course of the lesson to

Neena:
[19:39] But I like this idea of it then culminating at the end. So what do you do once you've gathered all this data? What can you then do at the end to kind of just end that whole lesson on a high? And I think it is about using the data you've collected. It is about looking at which students have received the most ticks.

Neena:
[19:57] And I think just making a really big deal about it. So whatever your exit or pack up routine is at the end of the lesson, just spending a little bit of time narrating those positives and and sharing with the class like who has topped the tick list with the highest number of ticks and summarizing what made them get all the ticks those behaviors for learning for example that they really excelled at and just making a big show and dance of kind of crowning that student as that the shining star of that particular lesson what

Pritesh:
[20:29] Can we hear a sample of what kind of things you might say at the end to narrate those best most ticked.

Neena:
[20:39] Students so again it's about the narration so it's about the content and the words but equally if not more important is the delivery isn't it um so i don't want to preempt but this might be a future episode where we talk about kind of almost an oscar winning kind of style of of delivery here but essentially it would be something along the lines of so everyone's packed up, you're narrating these positives. And it's like team, what a lesson that we absolutely smashed. Every single one of us in this room has got at least one or it could be two ticks. But there are a few of you that have exceeded even those expectations. Six of you have got three ticks and they are, and I would just list them by name, but... There is one overall winner in this room. Today, they have gone above and beyond in having the speediest, straightest arm for being the most engaged partner in their turn and talks, for asking all of those curious questions, for being the first one to get ready on that writing task. So the shining star of our lesson today is...

Neena:
[22:08] Yes Amelia let's give Amelia a round of applause

Pritesh:
[22:13] Oh my gosh I was so engrossed I was like yes Amelia.

Neena:
[22:18] So yeah something along those yeah something kind of along those lines and I think if we've done our job well then just that verbal recognition is enough but if you wanted to make it a little bit more tangible I know sometimes some schools might write down a little message or present it sort of as a postcard um and yeah and things like that

Pritesh:
[22:41] I mean there was that was like drama that was it was just the the joy and you're giving those pupils who have, really worked the hardest that particular lesson, you're giving them a moment and i think that is so powerful that flooding that room with warmth and positivity and it just shows and reinforces by protecting some time at the end of your lesson, to narrate that it reinforces to the class just how much you value their success and just how much you are rooting for them, and if that child is then announced as they just feel so special, and rightly so because they've deserved they've earned it they deserve it and i can just imagine the connection you build with the class as a result of doing these strategies would be just transformative. And then the next lesson, the kids are gonna be even more desperate to impress you, to get that shining star, to get the postcard, to get the sticker, whatever it is that is the ultimate reward. And what's most incredible is it's just through what you choose to narrate that gets ticks, that then shapes the culture. And I think that, yeah, it's brilliant. And in lessons that you've seen where this has happened, where teachers have gone from not using this to using this, what impact have you seen?

Neena:
[24:06] Well, it comes down to that kind of that magic word that we're always looking for. But essentially it's that increased buy-in from the kids and it just increases the amount of joy in the room and the kids are just so motivated to work hard put in that 100% effort and fundamentally to impress their teacher and everyone's just loving their lives it's just the positivity that it creates in the room and just yeah just the optimal learning environment I think it's it's really wonderful

Pritesh:
[24:40] And i love that you said everybody there because it's not just the kids that love this the teachers are having the time of their lives, because you're seeing the impact of the praise on the class and then you're more motivated to keep giving more praise and being more impressed but you're importantly not lowering your standards as we talked about in a previous episode but they are raising their game in order to meet your high standards and the teachers just love it like the number of staff that i've now spoken to who have said that this has been utterly transformative for the culture in their schools yeah i had a message from a teacher the other day um an mfl teacher who said that she had a pupil who normally just does not engage with languages i think languages is one of those subjects that some kids just the barrier is higher because it just feels so different and difficult, and said that he had the best time and he was you know he was recognized and he felt like he stayed behind to ask some questions which just never would have happened with his pupil before and with.

Pritesh:
[25:45] I've also seen a teacher kind of give a postcard to a pupil who was, beaming afterwards and what she said was she said if you you know normally when I they have this routine of just giving a postcard every lesson she said normally without the seating plan and the tick sheets I would have just given it to the same kids because they're the kids you in your head you've just that your default kids you notice more, and I would never have thought that this child would have got a postcard but because I looked at my tick sheet and I noticed that he had loads of ticks i thought oh great well it has to go to him and he just hadn't received a postcard perhaps in that lesson ever before and now he did and he was buzzing and i think that's just so beautiful because it's,

Pritesh:
[26:29] it's it's such a simple strategy but the power is is just brilliant it's transformative.

Neena:
[26:36] Absolutely and i like the reminder that you gave about it's not like it's kind of lowering your your expectations is they need to rise to to your standards so just to clarify when you are referring to that tick list and you see oh there's you know Penelope hasn't had a tick so far today it's not about giving her a tick at any cost even if she doesn't quite deserve it and she hasn't worked hard enough for it but it's just being mindful that this might be a student for whatever reason that you haven't gone to to ask for a contribution or maybe she's kind of out of your eyeline a little bit or whatever it is um so it's just a reminder to you to give her the opportunity to shine rather than automatically reward her

Pritesh:
[27:21] All right, it's time for our scenario for listeners to ponder over for the week ahead that we will discuss next time. So I'm going to share the scenario this week and I've been thinking about this. When we talked about packing up and the pack up routine earlier and protecting some time to give teachers the for teachers to give the the postcard or announce the number of ticks in the room. Who's got the most one thing that I've actually found that a lot of teachers, don't put enough time and thought into but when you then prod them prod them to reflect they will say I often just rush my pack up routine a lot, and I don't I often find like the bell goes and then I'm saying to the kids all right let's go stand behind your chairs off you go to your next lesson, so the scenario is what is the, or the question is this time not really a scenario I guess like what is the optimal pack up routine that's going to, allow you make you more likely to protect that time at the end of your lesson, to praise the pupils but also to make sure it feels orderly it feels calm and it doesn't feel rushed, that's our question listeners get in touch let us know what your thoughts are and we'll see you next time on Operation.

Pritesh:
[28:49] If you would like to share your answers to the scenario slash question or even want to suggest a topic for a future episode of Operation Education, then get in touch. Email me on pritesh at bunsonblue.com. If your school would like high quality CPD, then get in touch with me via bunsonblue.com forward slash CPD. Operation Education is a Bunson Blue production.