Neena:
[0:00] Right, I'm going to chuck a question straight at you.

Pritesh:
[0:03] And I will catch.

Neena:
[0:05] Not with your butterfingers. And we're talking metaphorically here. So what is the best gift you've ever received from a student?

Pritesh:
[0:15] Oh, okay. I'm just racking my brains now because there's two that come to mind. One is the most beautiful pair of cufflinks that I got. And every time I wear them, I think of the people that gave it to me and just the joyful relationship you have with that people in that class. And that's always really nice when there's something you can kind of wear. Yeah. But there's another one that I received that's also something you can wear. And that is a set of very special ties. And it wasn't one. It's plural ties. And they are the ultimate. They were Harry Potter themed.

Neena:
[0:54] Harry Potter.

Pritesh:
[0:56] I am a big fan so this was all the four houses there's one for each house and I've actually confessed I've only ever worn the Gryffindor one how.

Neena:
[1:05] Did I know that you were going to say that

Pritesh:
[1:08] But I do feel like I could pull off some of the other ones maybe which.

Neena:
[1:11] Ones which other house do you feel you have like an affinity to oh hold on what does Gryffindor stand for again so that's kind of for if you're

Pritesh:
[1:20] Brave courageous.

Neena:
[1:22] That kind of

Pritesh:
[1:23] Vibe friendship vibes going I think mainly bravery and courage, standing up for what's right, what we believe in.

Neena:
[1:28] Yes. All right. I like the sound of that. Yeah. If you weren't in Gryffindor, what would be your second choice?

Pritesh:
[1:34] That wouldn't happen. I would be in Gryffindor.

Neena:
[1:36] Okay. Let's just imagine for the purposes of this conversation, if it wasn't Gryffindor, what would be number two?

Pritesh:
[1:45] Not Slytherin. Not Slytherin.

Neena:
[1:49] Not Slytherin. Love it.

Pritesh:
[1:51] No, I do like Ravenclaw because I love the mantra. What do you call it? Mantra, not catchphrase. What is it called? The motto.

Neena:
[1:58] The motto, yes. I mean, what is the difference, the technical definition difference between a motto and a mantra?

Pritesh:
[2:06] I guess a motto is affiliated with something, but a mantra isn't.

Neena:
[2:10] I don't know. You're so making this up. That barely makes sense.

Pritesh:
[2:15] Well, like schools have mottos, don't they? It's wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure.

Neena:
[2:21] I love that. Good old Rowena Ravenclaw.

Pritesh:
[2:24] Yes, Rowena.

Neena:
[2:25] Brilliant stuff.

Pritesh:
[2:26] What about you? What is the ultimate gift that you have received from a pupil?

Neena:
[2:31] The best gift, I would say, oh, my gosh, it sounds like I'm copying you, but there's clearly a common theme emerging. I know we're also both Harry Potter fans, but I got a Dumbledore wand. What? Well, actually, it was a wand, but it doubles up as a pen.

Pritesh:
[2:50] Oh, stop.

Neena:
[2:51] Yes. Oh, my gosh. It made my life when I received that. It was a Christmas gift, actually, a couple of years ago.

Pritesh:
[2:57] That is next level.

Neena:
[2:58] I know, right?

Pritesh:
[2:59] Have you used the wand of course i have you must have so much fun in lessons using the one.

Neena:
[3:05] I really did oh my gosh i actually drove all the kids crazy because i thought they would find it really fun but i think i was just entertaining myself but you

Pritesh:
[3:14] Know but this is it this is what you can do when you set the culture in the classroom the banter you can have with kids is just, phenomenal that is so true yeah and i've seen you in action with the banter not only in the classroom but Even when leading like an assembly or, like a kind of a standing assembly, greeting, line up, whatever you call it. And it's just spectacular. I mean, it's just so important.

Neena:
[3:40] Isn't it? Like connection with the kids is just that's critical for them to. That's the foundation from which they have that buy in and that sense of joy. Right.

Pritesh:
[3:50] So got to have some moments of levity.

Neena:
[3:52] Got to be done.

Pritesh:
[3:53] The moments of levity. There's one simple way that teachers can bring moments of levity. Mm-hmm. wingardium leviosa, that is the best harry potter joke that's been.

Neena:
[4:09] Told but the thing is it's

Pritesh:
[4:10] Original i've literally just come up with.

Neena:
[4:12] It i was on the edge of my seat thinking i'm gonna hear some proper pearls of wisdom from mr right now that i'm just not expecting i don't know what's going to come out of your mouth and that's oh my giddy aunt

Pritesh:
[4:25] No i think it's.

Neena:
[4:26] Brilliant no let's just move on.

Pritesh:
[4:29] Welcome to another episode of Operation Education. I'm Pritesh Raitura.

Neena:
[4:34] I'm Nina Sharma. So what was last week's scenario?

Pritesh:
[4:40] So we were talking about exit routines in our lessons and sometimes teachers can feel, can do it in a way that's really rushed and you end up just, you know, the bell's gone and you're like, guys, let's pack away quickly, off you go. And we just It can feel quite chaotic and it can feel rushed. So what would make a good exit routine was the question that we had posed.

Neena:
[5:06] Yes, great question. I think often we focus a lot on how things begin or start. So we think, oh, we've got to make sure that the opening of the lesson is really strong, but actually ending it strongly is equally as important. So the first tip I'd give, which sounds very obvious, and it is really simple and straightforward, but it definitely transformed my exit routines because I have been notoriously terrible at ending my lessons on time because I get a bit overexcited and carried away and just lose track.

Pritesh:
[5:38] Too busy with your Dumbledore wand.

Neena:
[5:40] Too busy. Just waving the Dumbledore wand around like no one's business. Exactly. And then suddenly the bell's gone and I've got the wand in my hand and I've got 30 kids who I just want to rush to the door to get to lunch for their lasagna

Pritesh:
[5:55] Under your spell.

Neena:
[5:56] Okay. Are we just continuing this kind of theme for the episode?

Pritesh:
[6:01] Is that how it's going to be a magical episode? I can tell goodness.

Neena:
[6:05] All right. So, so simple, straightforward trick, which sounds quite obvious, but was definitely transformative for my exit routine was set an alarm or a timer. well maximum five minutes from the end of the lesson and that ensures that you will finish on time because you don't want to be constantly clock watching but as soon as that goes off that's the indication that it's time to start that exit routine

Pritesh:
[6:34] Five minutes that sounds quite a long time why five minutes what you planning to do within as part of the exit routine that's going to take so.

Neena:
[6:44] Long? Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think there's a few things that are essential to make sure that you're ending that lesson really successfully. But actually, like with everything else, it's all about habit and routine. So you can streamline it and end up actually only having to finish your lesson two or three minutes from the end. But if you're establishing this as something new, I would advise five minutes. So for me, I think there's two key targets at the end of the lesson. Number one is the logistics. So it's just making sure that the kids are packing up very efficiently at the end. And that will be done through a series of chunked instructions. And secondly, it's really sustaining all of that positivity and the warmth from the lesson right up until the very end. So we talked last time about giving all that warm, specific named praise and utilizing those tick lists as well. But actually, at the end of the lesson is the time where you want to narrate the story of the lesson and all of those positives. It's kind of like just tying a bow on it or closing that loop.

Pritesh:
[7:54] What do you mean by narrating the story of the lesson?

Neena:
[7:57] So throughout the lesson, you would have narrated all of that praise and you also would have collected the data of it onto your tick list.

Pritesh:
[8:05] So just to clarify, for anyone who hasn't listened to that episode, this is every time a child does something brilliant in the lesson, whether it's a really brilliant paired talk or whether it's great independent practice work, whether it's a lovely full sentence answer, we are giving that warm praise to them saying, wow, I love the way you just use the word. or electrolysis in your answer i.

Neena:
[8:28] Thought you were going to say

Pritesh:
[8:29] Photosynthesis i knew you would complain about that so i changed it to electrolysis.

Neena:
[8:35] I could tell very

Pritesh:
[8:36] Intentional so you're giving that specific praise to so many kids but to help you keep track of that you're adding ticks to your tick sheet which is your seating plan and then at the end of the lesson you're saying you look at that seating plan and you go oh so and so's got three ticks and so's got two ticks i'm so impressed and all that kind of stuff yeah.

Neena:
[8:53] For sure and obviously you've delivered that throughout the course of the lesson right like you've given the praise at that time and you've chucked that tick on but i think it's really lovely to just have it all consolidated at the end because then you can narrate the names of the students who achieved the most ticks and like just a brief summary of what they achieved them for and what it was exactly that impressed you as well and i think we've modeled a bit of that in the last episode as

Pritesh:
[9:18] Well yeah so check out the previous episodes of operation education oh yeah, okay so that's brilliant so we've got one key reason why you want five minutes at the end partly to pack away, and then second of all to narrate the story of the lesson and then hopefully by the time you've done that bell's about to go you can then dismiss one row at a time for example yes exactly lovely so with oh i just.

Neena:
[9:48] Thought you know i i have an issue with just having an obsession with alliteration i was just thinking exit routine something of the two p's something like pack up and

Pritesh:
[9:58] Positives oh i was thinking praise but i thought.

Neena:
[10:01] You were going to say that you're thinking pritish because it's always going to be about you but yeah

Pritesh:
[10:06] I like that pack up and, positives. I like pack up and praise. That's got a ring to it.

Neena:
[10:11] Oh gosh.

Pritesh:
[10:12] Look at us teamwork.

Neena:
[10:13] I know but yours is actually better than mine. I'm feeling a bit resentful about this. Especially because you keep trying to steal my job as an English teacher and I keep having to tell you stay in your lane right you're up.

Pritesh:
[10:26] Well next time I'll use a non-electrolysis and photosynthesis example. I'll talk about Macbeth.

Neena:
[10:31] And you always default to Macbeth whenever you want to use any english examples is that the only text that you know it's because

Pritesh:
[10:37] I know the opening lines when shall we three meet again in thunder lightning war.

Neena:
[10:42] And rain all right do

Pritesh:
[10:43] You want me to go.

Neena:
[10:43] On no because it's not the pritta show right

Pritesh:
[10:46] Okay it's the shakespeare show oh that's got alliteration oh look at me go.

Neena:
[10:51] Spending too much time with me that's why it is it's all rubbing off uh so pack up and praise i love that we have just coined that on this episode it's quite exciting i love it for us pack up and pray yes

Pritesh:
[11:05] That can be the title of this episode oh my.

Neena:
[11:07] Gosh it's just getting better and better love it

Pritesh:
[11:10] Okay so let's talk about pack up then because different teachers pack up in very different ways what is your style what is your vibe.

Neena:
[11:19] Well actually i'll ask i'll go over to you phil hand over to you for this bit because you have a really useful praise uh praise phrase i've got praise and positivity stuck on my mind a really useful phrase that i think has just been so transformative when it comes to the exit routine the pack up part in particular do you want to talk through that

Pritesh:
[11:42] Are you referring to the instruction sandwich.

Neena:
[11:45] Yes so what a surprise it's related to food yes yummy

Pritesh:
[11:49] It's a delicious instruction sandwich um yeah so i love using the instruction sandwich so i i was thinking so i've seen staff and colleagues use this, way of giving instructions and as i was kind of analyzing and unpicking and thinking about how am i going to steal this and use this with all the teachers that i work with i thought the structure of a sandwich was really apt.

Neena:
[12:18] Yeah what a

Pritesh:
[12:18] Surprise um and it's because in a sandwich you've got the bread at the top and the bread at the bottom.

Neena:
[12:24] Wholemeal white malty

Pritesh:
[12:27] Seed sourdough whatever takes your fancy whatever mood you're in that day, and it's always the same okay whereas the filling is different and varied so the first part of the instruction that's always the same no matter what whether it's pencil cases away whether it's stood behind your chairs whether it's books to the end of the row the beginning of the instruction is always a call to attention so let's go for let's say it's three two one star, and then you scan to make sure everyone is actually listening and then you say when I say go and not before, and that is the top slice of bread that is always the same no matter what, then you've got the filling which could be different each time so it could be, close your books back into star or books to the end back to star or it could be pencil cases in bags, for example and then the final bit of the instruction is the next the bottom slice of bread again and again no matter what the middle bit the filling was this is always the same it's ready.

Pritesh:
[13:34] Pause go and after the go you're adding a number, and that number you count down from 10 let's say nine eight seven six five four three two one star and scan again and in the middle of that you might be giving lots of praise to the kids who are speedy or helpful whatever it might be but that is the instruction sandwich in a nutshell.

Neena:
[13:58] Okay it's quite a lot to unpack there so you've got a call to attention whatever it is when I say go not before then the instruction that's really concise it's quite bossy isn't it from the teacher like when I say go and not before and all these kind of bossy imperative verbs like close pack um what would you say to to someone who says that's quite like mean and aggressive

Pritesh:
[14:25] I think it's exactly the opposite of that so the tone isn't close your books pass them down it's not it's not being you're not being strict in this moment, you're being playful and the way i think about it is, um what you're doing by saying when i say go and not before, You are making sure that you have stillness in the room because everyone is attentive. Because when they're not and some kids are already packing away because they know it's time to pack away, then you're losing the class. Like they're doing things at their own times and pace. By actually having a clear signal, a moment when everyone moves together, the sense of team that it creates is just magical in the classroom. and what i mean by that is you know been watching the football recently and seeing, um norway i think it is that do the row row row row chant and i've seen all these videos of school kids in norway and they're sitting in a, like like what replicating a boat and doing the rowing action and chanting that together and they you know the hands actions start in a forward position and back together literally like rowing together, and so many cultures have this where you do you know some sort of dance together and everyone's got the same move and the reason for that is moving as a team stopping as a team.

Pritesh:
[15:51] Makes you feel as if you are part of that team that you belong with that group and you connect with that teacher who is like the leader in that moment who's going to take us on this this exit routine journey as it were, and it sounds like really dramatic what i'm saying but it's all it's all very kind of tacit and the kids develop that feeling and that sense of team you can also narrate what a team look at us moving together right next bit when i say go and not before, i was trying this in my lesson today with a class that i've never met before, and they were loving their lives and we were able to have so much fun with it and i was able to talk about what a team we were, because it's everyone moving together and stopping together so it is playful and it's intended to be not kind of we are going to do this and not when i not if i'm not saying go and all that kind of stuff. That's not the point of it. But it is also the case that it builds the authority of the teacher. So for example, holding the silence between the ready.

Pritesh:
[16:55] Go rather than uh when i say go not before we're going to close our books and pass them to the end ready go like that doesn't instill that and inspire that sense of, we're moving together first of all but it also misses the trick of that silence building the the anticipation but also the authority of the teacher because it's when that teacher says go, if the kids get used to listening to the instructions at the end of your lesson they'll also get used to you being the one building the culture that you want in your room and we've talked previous episodes about how when there's unkindness in lessons, the teacher has to address that because we don't want the unkind behaviors like someone laughing at someone else's answer to be the norm and the culture so it has to be the case that we set the culture as teachers in the room and this helps establish that I love that.

Neena:
[17:49] I've just had another piece of alliteration pop into my head.

Pritesh:
[17:53] Here we go. Here we go. Brace yourselves.

Neena:
[17:55] The purpose of the pause, it's like the double A. authority and anticipation what do you think about that how i

Pritesh:
[18:04] Nailed it i love how you said the power of the pause and you said the what was it the authority and the anticipation yeah.

Neena:
[18:12] There we go exactly can i just say like just power of pause i think we just need like a whole episode or sequence of episodes at some point just dedicated to the power of pause because i am obsessed with this and i think it is one of the most like least understood or most underestimated like empowering techniques in a

Pritesh:
[18:33] Classroom power of pause there we go we're gonna we're gonna do that an episode on that or more you said my goodness how much do you have to say about it to say will there be a lot of pausing in the episode.

Neena:
[18:45] Yeah that's why it needs a sequence of episodes you see take double or triple or quadruple the time

Pritesh:
[18:50] Riveting listen i'm sure that will make for.

Neena:
[18:53] Can't wait right um just to draw out another element of the instruction sandwich then so after each very concise instruction uh you set the kids off on a countdown so how do you choose like the optimal number to count down from and what's the best way to deliver that as well

Pritesh:
[19:14] Yes so once you've done you're ready pause pause pause pause pause go, you're tying a number to the word go and i've seen teachers deliver the instruction sandwich without a countdown and with a countdown and the impact it has is number one it adds a sense of urgency but number two it injects a sense of like competition of who's going to get there in time and that's really fun and playful and the kids love it but the number has to be, i think of it as like the goldilocks number, food again porridge porridge is on my mind sandwiches porridge ah all right, it's not the most exciting feast in the world.

Neena:
[19:52] It's a bit of a strange combo but you know i've heard worse so i've seen you eat worse but yeah

Pritesh:
[19:59] So we've got the number can't be too long and it can't be too short if it's too long then you're going to be counting down and the kids have already finished doing the thing that you want them to and if it's too short they're still, not they're not going to stop as a team they're not going to have enough time to to finish the instruction so the number you want has to be just right, and so that number has to be chosen well so i always think if it's just closing books five seconds pass them to the end of the row 10 seconds it depends obviously on the layout of your classroom pencil cases in bags you have to remember kids need to put pens in their pencil case close their pencil case open their bags pencil case in bags shut that might take 20 seconds so your countdown begins from a number that's suited to the, length of time you would anticipate it takes to complete that task, In a Goldilocks way.

Neena:
[20:53] Okay.

Pritesh:
[20:54] And the other thing I'd add there is the countdown. You might not just say every number. You might inject in. Oh, I love that. Looks like front row is going to be first to inject that sense of competition. Or chuck in the final bits of praise before the end of the lesson. Wow, Nina is there already. That's another tick for you, for example. And just rewarding things that you want the kids to value more. I love how you're neatening that pile of books up Josh definitely a tick for you or you know Lisa's dropped her book and you know someone else is helping out uh oh Phoebe what a kind gesture to pick up, whose book dropped Lisa's book a tick for you you know that kind of thing you're just reinforcing any cultural elements that you want as part of that as well right.

Neena:
[21:42] Up until the very final second of the lesson it never

Pritesh:
[21:46] Stops culture building never stops never.

Neena:
[21:49] Stops never sleeps

Pritesh:
[21:51] Never sleep okay.

Neena:
[21:52] So really useful to have broken it down but just to wrap up can you model this for us all the way through like in its entirety so imagining we are the class and it's the end of the lesson

Pritesh:
[22:04] Okay three two one star, what a brilliant lesson we've had team when i say go and not before close our books, and back in star ready, go 5 4 3 2 1 star, wow front row your speed was extraordinary but Nina speed queen tick for you, when I say go and not before pass your books to the end of the row, ready go.

Pritesh:
[22:53] Go. Ten, nine, eight. Wow, look at us go. This speed is extraordinary. Five, four, three, two, one star. Oh my goodness. Joe, your speed was phenomenal. Tick for you. I also loved that Josh stumbled with his book, but Lisa, the way you helped him out, I'm popping on a tick for you for your kindness. and then at this point i would maybe narrate the ticks and all that kind of stuff oh i would have done the same thing again for the the pencil cases maybe in bags, and then you narrate all the ticks you could go celebrate all of that and then you say you'll give your postcard or your shining star and then the final instruction sandwich is when i say go and not before, we're going to stand behind our chairs in silence tracking me ready to go and have a fantastic next lesson ready, go and do the final countdown.

Neena:
[23:54] Love it right fab and then the bell's gone and you are actually dismissing them let's say row by row so they're not just all kind of cramming through the door at the same time and i suppose i mean there's lots of benefits of ending the lesson in this way right but essentially the kids are leaving in a really calm and orderly way which is great for them whether they're going to the next lesson or to break and lunch but we're also not just setting them up for success but also we're supporting and setting our colleagues up for success because the kids are arriving punctually and in the right frame of mind and i just love how like this can just snowball like throughout the day really

Pritesh:
[24:34] Positively yeah i think we we've both been in situations i imagine i'm sure listeners will will agree where you're waiting for a class like period four and you're like where are they why aren't they here yet and it's because they've dismissed late from their previous and you're thinking i've got a practical that i'm about to do i'm not i don't know if i'm going to finish my practical on time if it's science for example and you can you can get start to get frustrated with colleagues, if that doesn't if that pack-up routine isn't been done well by them but equally i know that i've been guilty of dismissing a class late because you've been so engrossed in the lessons i think yeah that idea of duty to our team is really powerful isn't that funny that the pack-up routine builds a sense of team within your classroom but if all the teachers are doing the pack-up routine it builds a sense of team amongst the staff body i love.

Neena:
[25:23] It it's just all about

Pritesh:
[25:25] Team it's all about team yeah maybe that's the title of this episode god.

Neena:
[25:29] So many to choose

Pritesh:
[25:30] From wow look at us fun times in the editing room.

Neena:
[25:37] So, Pratesh, what's your question or scenario for next week's episode?

Pritesh:
[25:42] Right. I want you to tell me about a lesson that you previously taught that was underpinned by ideas that you were seduced by at the time, but you've completely changed your mind about now.

Neena:
[25:57] Ooh.

Pritesh:
[25:59] I think this one will prompt people to think back to lessons from long ago in the vaults of their brain.

Neena:
[26:07] Take a trip down memory lane.

Pritesh:
[26:09] That's a better way of saying it. Next time on Operation Education. If you would like to share your answer...