Building Community in The Hague with Francine van der Wansem

In the premiere episode of the Dose of Dutch Podcast, host Hannah Terry chats with Francine van der Wansem of FrancineVisuals and TwentyFourtheHague, who shares her journey as a creative entrepreneur in The Hague, from photography to community building, and offers practical tips for connecting and growing locally.

The Dose of Dutch Podcast is your ultimate guide to the vibrant community of The Hague, Netherlands. Every week, you'll learn about the city through the eyes of Hannah Terry, who leads a thriving community of women looking for meaning and connection by the shores of the North Sea.

You can find all audio episodes of the show on Apple Music, Spotify and wherever you stream podcasts. Look for full video on the Dose of Dutch YouTube channel, plus clips and bonus content on Instagram and TikTok. Be sure to like, follow, listen and review! Contact us at doseofdutchpod@gmail.com.

The Dose of Dutch Podcast is produced by Chroyce Creative Agency and recorded at Studio Point of View in The Hague.

Transcript

HANNAH: We are kicking off the first episode of the Dose of Dutch podcast. And I thought there wouldn't be a better guest to kick it off with than Francine, who runs Francine Visuals and 24 The Hague. So welcome, Francine.

FRANCINE: Thank you. I'm really glad to be here.

HANNAH: I'm excited. I didn't tell you this before, but I wanted to share a little bit about how I came to find you and know you.

When I first moved to The Hague, I always felt like everybody knew all these spots and I didn't. But then I found your page, Francine Visuals. And I remembered that for my sixteenth birthday I'd gotten a camera, and I'd left it back in the US when I moved to the Netherlands. I was so disappointed, because I saw all these beautiful pictures on your page and I thought, I wish I had that camera.

I ended up going back home for Christmas, and my little brother had kind of co-opted it. I told him, I'm so sorry, but I'm taking this camera back.

And that, I have to say, was probably the start of me seeing The Hague in a new way. It wasn't the start of social media for me, but it was the moment I thought: I'm going to go on a walk with my camera, no headphones, and just explore. Find these pretty streets and places that you were showcasing. So I really have to say thank you, because you inspired me with your work.

FRANCINE: That's so nice. You never told me that. I'm happy I could inspire you.

HANNAH: Do you want to introduce yourself? How long you've been in The Hague, what you do?


FRANCINE'S BACKGROUND
---------------------

[02:16]

FRANCINE: I was actually born in The Hague. That's why I know all these places.

HANNAH: One of the lucky ones.

FRANCINE: I grew up here. I remember growing up on the beach a lot — always going to the beach, just enjoying The Hague life. I studied in Rotterdam, but I always stayed here. I really love it here. I did internships in New York, an exchange in Hong Kong, but I always come back to my city, The Hague.

HANNAH: I didn't know that. And what did you study?

FRANCINE: Business.

HANNAH: You studied business.

FRANCINE: My master's was business information management, which is IT and business combined. So I'm doing something completely different now, but I like my business background a lot, because it helps me a lot.

HANNAH: I'm sure. And what do you do now, for those that don't know?

FRANCINE: That's always difficult to summarize in one sentence, but I'll try.

Basically I'm a freelancer. I do freelance marketing, but also photography and videography. I work a lot in the cultural sector, and a lot of my clients are here in The Hague.

Next to that, I do a lot of other things. I run my own account, Francine Visuals, which is focused on photography and videography. At first it was mostly focused on The Hague, but now I'm moving more worldwide, because I want to expand a little bit more. Which is why I started a second account and brand, 24 The Hague — because I was really missing a spot to share all my finds, my favorite places, and stories of the people in The Hague. I think you had the same. And it's online, but also offline. I have a zine.

Next to that, I also have the community The Hague Creators, together with Ali. We started it together, and the name already says it — it's a community for creators.

All of that together is just me doing whatever I like, whatever is creative, and basically just what makes me happy.

HANNAH: That's so nice.

FRANCINE: I'm really grateful and happy that I'm able to do this, and that I can make money from it. I never expected that at all. Every day I'm super grateful that I can just do what makes me happy.


BECOMING A PHOTOGRAPHER
-----------------------

[04:38]

HANNAH: Do you remember your first photography client?

FRANCINE: I think it grew naturally, because I started in marketing. Before I was a freelancer, I was a marketing manager, just nine to five. So naturally I started freelancing in marketing. And photography is such a big part of marketing. It was always my hobby, but I never could have imagined it would be my work — I used to just shoot with my phone.

At some point, for my freelance clients, I started making photos for their socials that I could use for the marketing as well. And then all of a sudden people reached out to me just for photography, and I thought, okay, this is really nice. I guess I'm a photographer now.

HANNAH: Nice.

FRANCINE: And a lot of it through Instagram, actually. I'd been working on that for many years already, and then people just started reaching out.

HANNAH: Lovely.

FRANCINE: Last year I had a friend who was getting married, and she asked me to do the photography. She said, well, we're going to do a big wedding in Mexico next year, we just want some pictures of this one.

HANNAH: Weddings are scary.

FRANCINE: Imagine — behind the lens, I'm tearing up.

HANNAH: You can't miss important moments.

FRANCINE: I was so stressed. But she also had perfect vision. She had the whole mood board, so I'm just checking my Pinterest.

HANNAH: That's great.

FRANCINE: It was beautiful, though. But it was a very intimate experience. It's a different level from attending the wedding — doing all the photography ahead of it. So many emotions. I hope I did well.

HANNAH: And also different from what you usually photograph. Cities, places.

FRANCINE: Absolutely. It was really nice, though. But don't reach out to me for any weddings.

HANNAH: I will now. It's on the podcast.[1]


STARTING THE HAGUE CREATORS
---------------------------

[07:03]

HANNAH: I'd love to talk more about The Hague Creators. What made you and Ali start this community? What do you think people are looking for?

FRANCINE: Ali actually reached out to me. He'd had this idea for a longer time. He followed me on Instagram — so, also through Instagram, I made this great connection. He sent me a DM with his idea, we had a coffee, and I thought, why not? Because I was also missing this type of community in The Hague.

We look a lot at Amsterdam and Rotterdam. They have a lot of amazing creatives and a lot of super cool initiatives. And I know The Hague can do that as well — we have a lot of creative people here, but everyone was very much on their own island. It just wasn't happening yet. So we thought, okay, let's just start it.

The idea was always to do it for fun and to bring people together. Just something we wanted to have in the city. So we started a WhatsApp group one day and thought, we'll see where it goes. We didn't have a plan at all. And then suddenly we had 300 people in the group, and we thought, now we have to do something.

We wanted to start with our first premiere party at the beach — which is now an annual thing. And we thought, if twenty people show up, it's already great. We don't do it for the numbers, we do it to connect with people and bring people together. So twenty people, great. And then we had a hundred people show up, and the community kept growing, and we thought, okay, this is great. Apparently there really was a need for such a community.

It's been around for two years now.

HANNAH: Two years already. I think it also comes from seeing the need — you're looking for something, and you create what you need. That's the natural way to start something.

FRANCINE: Exactly. And then you're super passionate about it.

HANNAH: Like what you said — you were missing an account where you could find all the nice spots, so you started it. And people can see that you're really passionate about it, and that just works.

FRANCINE: And then you're also able to keep it up. If you don't like it, you get exhausted, because — well, we both know how much work it is to run a community. But if you like it, it's all fine.

HANNAH: I always say my target audience is me. So it's super easy to think, okay, what would I join? What do I want to spend my Friday night doing? And then create an event around that.

FRANCINE: That makes total sense.


MANAGING A COMMUNITY
--------------------

[09:24]

HANNAH: The Hague Creators was the first WhatsApp community, in the literal sense, that I'd been in. I remember scrolling through and thinking, there are so many small groups and channels — but it's such a nice way to organize something, because people can join what they want. They don't have to join.

FRANCINE: It's always a work in progress and you're always learning. Your group also has a lot of subgroups.

HANNAH: And sometimes you delete a few.

FRANCINE: Sometimes, yeah. In the beginning we tried to create all the groups for the different industries — fashion, photography, content creators. We thought that would be what people wanted. And some of the groups are really not active at all. And then we have some really random subgroups now, because people requested them. But it's a community. What the community wants, happens.

HANNAH: It's true.

FRANCINE: So we just try to facilitate that. That's basically how it started, and then it grew more and more.

Your group is insanely big. How do you manage all the groups and the community?

HANNAH: I always said it's a similar thing — if you want a group, add it, or request it. But now we've hit a limit. So I'm at the point of, okay, we're going to have to start trimming down some of the groups that are a little more niche.

I'm in all of the groups, just to keep it aligned. And you see the ones that are active. So, the cat moms. I love the cat moms. I'm not a cat mom, but I get a lot of cat photos.[2] The other day there was a whole trend of people sending photos of their cats with a little hat drawn on, to celebrate a new cat. I thought, this is amazing.

It's the groups where I think, do the cat moms need a group? And then I see it and I think — they do. They do. People just request what they need.

But like you said, I'm always learning, because there are challenges. Sometimes I'll come out of a work meeting and there's something happening in the group. Hannah.

FRANCINE: And you always feel responsible. The vibe in the community is super important, but it's not something you can really control.

[11:41]

FRANCINE: You can try. You can obviously be your own personality and have your own values, and we really try to mirror that to the community — just be nice, you know?

HANNAH: Yeah.

FRANCINE: But there are always people that will not be nice. That's the hardest part, keeping it nice and gezellig in the community. And when you grow more and more, it becomes more difficult, because in the beginning we knew basically everyone in there personally. Now there are people we've never seen, and they don't know us, they don't know how much work we put into it — and that it's all for free, basically. We're facilitating all of that just to have people connect. So they just need to be nice.

That's what's hard when you grow. But we have an amazing community and the people are all really nice, and we have some organizers now in the community who also keep an eye on the vibe in the group chat. That really helps, because at some point you really can't do it alone. You can't read all the messages.

HANNAH: No.

FRANCINE: That's what I really admire about you — you started it alone. I did it together with Ali, which was so great, because sometimes you can discuss things: what do we do? You have to make all the decisions basically yourself.

HANNAH: I'm not a very confrontational person. Usually with decisions I'm not super firm. But with this community I've found myself growing into that side of myself. I kind of just go with my gut. I've told people before: hey, it's my community, my rules. I'm sorry, but you're not following the rules — you're out. I've set the rules, I've given you a warning.

It's an interesting thing, because it's a different side of me. I'm usually not very mama bear. But with my community I'm like, you will not be causing drama in the book group chat.

FRANCINE: Or the cat chat.

HANNAH: Do not come into the cat moms' chat with that attitude. This is not the place for that.

It's nice to see that side of myself — that I am very protective, and that I recognize I've built something and want to make sure the vibe, like you said, is curated.

[13:58]

HANNAH: And of course there are the funny moments. It's a funny place to be, sometimes. Now I have a two-point-oh, because the first one maxed out, so there's another one which is a little quieter. Sometimes I'm texting in there like, hey girls. It's funny to see the two personalities of the two groups emerge and how they're different.

I have no idea what to do beyond these two WhatsApp communities. Eventually, in ten years, there are ten WhatsApp communities. We'll see.


TAKING THE FIRST STEP
---------------------

[15:00]

HANNAH: What do you think is most difficult for people — to join a community, or to take that first step?

FRANCINE: I've always loved connecting with other people, even though I lived here. I always tried to go to book clubs, and when I lived abroad, that's what I loved doing. That's also why I was so enthusiastic about starting The Hague Creators — I love communities.

But I also experienced how it is to go to these events alone. You think, oh god, I have no clue, maybe I'll be standing alone. So I think it's just that one step. You also have to be fine with failing or looking stupid. There will be events where you just don't fit in and you'll be standing alone, which is fine. At least you tried.

I think that's the difficult part for people — what if I'm alone, or nobody likes me, or I don't like anyone? And for those people, my tip is just don't care and show up. If it was fun, you had a fun evening. If not, at least you tried. But most of the time it's just going to be a lot of fun.

HANNAH: I also feel like following up. I was going to a lot of community events when I first moved here, but I was never doing the "hey, we met last week at this event, do you want to get coffee?"

A few people did that to me, and I started to realize that's the next step — connecting beyond the event. So I started saying, okay, if I'm going to go to book club, then I want to message one person who was at the meeting afterward and set something else up.

FRANCINE: That's a really good one.

HANNAH: Because I kept going to these community events and thinking, okay, I met a lot of nice people, but then two weeks later —

[16:17]

HANNAH: — I don't know. I wasn't getting anything out of it. And then I realized, well, you have to do more than just go to the event. So when following up with people, I started to just say, hey, I'm looking for friends. That's a nice way of coming across as very open.

FRANCINE: Yeah.

HANNAH: Hey, I'm looking for friends, do you want to get coffee sometime? It makes you seem a lot more approachable and relatable, because you're already saying it. It's kind of like dating.

FRANCINE: Good tip. Because for me, I go to almost — or at least I try to go to all the events of The Hague Creators. And then you see people more often. But a lot of the time you go to one, and then maybe the next month you miss the event, and then you're two months further. So it's really hard to build a proper friendship with someone from the community from one event.

HANNAH: From one event.

FRANCINE: And then maybe you'll see them and you'll talk a little bit. But getting it out of the group chat, or out of the one event — that's actually a really great tip.

And even with that, if people say no, it's fine. At least you tried.

HANNAH: Of course.

FRANCINE: And people are sometimes busy. I'm thinking about my own WhatsApp messages — it's not you.[3] If I ever don't respond, it's my fault. Send a few messages and don't be worried if people don't respond or can't do it.

I think in the Creators community, you already have a lot in common, because you like creativity. And for yours, it's being a girl, I guess. So that also helps. We do a lot of photo walks, for example, so you can always ask, hey, do you want to go on a photo walk together? Something a little bit smaller, because our groups can be quite big. You already have that one interest in common. It's a really nice way to connect, and it makes it a lot easier.

HANNAH: It is. And when I've been, it's always a group of people I wouldn't discover anywhere else. I really like that it's not the usual suspects I'd usually be hanging out with.

FRANCINE: That's really nice.


24 THE HAGUE
------------

[18:41]

HANNAH: Now I'll shift to one of your other sides, 24 The Hague. Do you want to give a bit of background on what the account is about, and what you like to do with it?

FRANCINE: It started, I think, at the end of last year, so quite recently. I was really looking for a creative outlet, because I work for a lot of clients in The Hague, but it's always client work. I love it, but there's always a goal or a shot list you have to follow. I do get a lot of creative freedom, but not a hundred percent.

And I love my city, I love The Hague. My own account, Francine Visuals, was moving more towards global work, which is why I really wanted to have an account focused on The Hague. There are so many beautiful stories that need to be told, that I wanted to tell — all of these amazing entrepreneurs and initiatives happening, which I just wanted to share. And to combine everything I like in one place.

HANNAH: Everything.

FRANCINE: Everything. I love graphic design, I love photography, videography, and I love writing, marketing, social media. This was just my creative freedom outlet.

So I started it online, also with a blog. And I'd always wanted to make a zine — a small magazine, which I designed fully. It's a limited number of copies, which I spread out around the city, and it's filled with photography and stories about people from The Hague. You were in there, too. Also hotspots, more stories, but also just the places people love. Everything combined in one zine.

It started from passion — a lot of what I do starts from passion, just because I like doing it, and the same for 24.[4]

[20:00]

FRANCINE: And I would like it to be a business in the future. Now I already get advertisers, of course, but I also have costs. I really want it to be the place for where to go in The Hague, but also to tell stories, for brands to show what they do. So that's what I'm building towards now.

HANNAH: Nice. And how do you find these places? You've lived here your whole life, but there are new places popping up, places you're probably just discovering.

[20:56]

FRANCINE: A lot is social media. It just pops up on my feed because of the algorithm, so that helps. Thank you, Meta.

And a lot of what I do connects with everything else. I work a lot for institutions in The Hague, so I know what's going on, what's happening — I can combine my work with 24. And then with The Hague Creators I meet so many creative people who tell me all the stuff that's happening. That works really well, because it also takes less time. I just hear so much from the people I know, and it's just really natural.

I'm always around town because I need to shoot there, or do this there — then I might as well walk by this new coffee place. Or I meet someone I want to interview. That combines really well. And a lot of people also reach out to me.

HANNAH: Yeah.

FRANCINE: And how does that work for you?


DISCOVERING THE CITY'S CALENDAR
-------------------------------

HANNAH: At first — I remember on your account I would see that you'd done something, and I had a list. I wrote down: next year, I really want to go to Jazz in de Gracht. It was very forward-looking, because I'd think, I can't believe I missed this. Museumnacht. Jazz in de Gracht. Prinsjesnacht.

Prinsjesnacht. If you're my Dutch teacher, please ignore that.

FRANCINE: Sorry to interrupt, but I think I'd already discovered you — your Prinsjesnacht video went viral.

[23:11]

HANNAH: It was on TikTok.

FRANCINE: I think it was last year.

HANNAH: Last year, yeah.

FRANCINE: And I was working for Prinsjesnacht then, and I thought, oh my god, you make it look so amazing. And it is amazing, of course.

HANNAH: But it was kind of rainy and dark.

FRANCINE: But I think you made me fall in love with The Hague even more. Seeing it through your eyes — I've lived here for so long, so for me some things are just normal. But then seeing it through your eyes, or other people's eyes, people who are starting to live here, I think, damn, I never realized how amazing or special this is. And then I actually enjoy it so much more. So thank you for that.

HANNAH: For me it's all new. It's like — what do you mean we're going to have a jazz festival in a canal? This is amazing.

Some of these things you just don't know about. They're yearly events, but — I think it's those yearly events that don't even need to promote, because people know they're happening. But then if you're new, you don't know.

So I remember keeping a list: when this comes around next year, we're going to be ready. And I thought, we don't need to gatekeep this. I want to share it. At some point I had the idea to put together a calendar of all of these major events, because going out on the third Monday of September is the best. Who would know?

It's in my calendar this year. No work trips in the third week of September, because I have priorities, okay?

But this is the kind of thing where people who are new don't know about it, or they don't have a group to go with. For Koningsnacht, I said, okay, let's do a meetup — because there were people saying, I arrived here a week ago and I didn't want to miss out on Koningsdag, but I don't know anybody and I don't really know where to go or who to go with.

So we had about forty people meet at one spot. We split up into smaller groups, but it was more about giving people a place to come, so they felt like: I can enjoy this event, and I don't have to do it alone.


PRINT, POSTERS, AND STICKERS
----------------------------

HANNAH: That's kind of how I started with the spots, and also with physical posters. Something simple, like my physio — they always have posters in the waiting room, and I love the things I've discovered from that.

[25:00]

FRANCINE: I love print media in general. That's also why I started the zine. For all the events we do, we try to make posters, and we go around town and hang them at cafés and —

HANNAH: You do the stickers.

FRANCINE: Yeah, the stickers.

HANNAH: I love that.

FRANCINE: Don't say that. No — sorry, I don't do it. Someone, somewhere.

HANNAH: Is that illegal?

[25:34]

FRANCINE: Only if they catch you red-handed.

HANNAH: Only if you're caught.

FRANCINE: But it's so great, because it's also a connection with the cafés. You walk in and you promote your event that you put so much work into. It really gives me a good feeling to do that in your own city. And then sometimes I walk somewhere and I see my stickers or my posters, and I'm just super proud.

HANNAH: That's actually cool.

I used to run a book club in The Hague, and it was very, very small — like four of us. We wanted to grow. I hung up one poster in one café, and suddenly we had a hundred people in the group chat. All I needed to do was print one piece of paper and hang it up.[5] I really think printing is a great idea.

FRANCINE: It really helps.


WHAT'S COMING UP
----------------

[27:00]

HANNAH: Oh my gosh, I think we're really running out of time. We could talk to you for a while. Part two coming soon.

Is there anything coming up, or that you're working on, that you're excited about?

FRANCINE: Yes, a lot. For The Hague Creators, we're working on our new exposition, which is called DH Creates. It's going to be in September, for two weeks, at Kunstbar on Noordeinde.

HANNAH: Kunstbar. Love it.

FRANCINE: And it's going to be a showcase of The Hague through the eyes of the creatives. It can be anything — photography, videography, sculptures, whatever people want to submit. It's so great to see all these creative people and their work, and how they see our city, come together in one room.

So it will be an exposition, but also a lot of other events — an opening, of course, photo walks. Anything you can think of.

And we're really proud, because we got a subsidy from Cultuurschakel, so it's free to join. It's super accessible for anyone who wants to join. I'm really happy about that.

For 24, I'm also working on a lot of plans, but I guess you have to follow me to see. I think those are the main things. Just too much — but I'll keep it at this.


[27:52–29:50 — a first pass at the recommendations segment, restarted on mic after Hannah and Francine agreed to reword it for the episode rather than for a specific week. Omitted. The second take follows.]


RECOMMENDATIONS
---------------

[29:50]

HANNAH: My last question. What is one thing you're recommending for the episode? I'll start, to give you some time to think.

I'm recommending Club Gelato. It's a new gelato place on Prins Hendrikplein,[6] in the Zeeheldenkwartier. You walk in and you can tell they had so much fun designing the space. I think it's so fun to walk in and see personality. There's pink, there's marble.

FRANCINE: Pink.

HANNAH: There's a disco ball. I think we're out of this phase of very sterile design and very into fun. And talking with the owner — I can't remember her name right now — she was just kind of glowing with the excitement of having created this place. I think it's a beautiful spot, and the gelato is very good. I wouldn't recommend it if the gelato wasn't exceptional. It was very good.

Really nice vibes, and fun. I've sat inside both times I went, even though they have a lovely terrace. With an ice cream place you usually think you get it and you leave, or you sit outside — but I'm sitting inside, because I enjoy the space so much.

So: Club Gelato.

FRANCINE: Good one.

For me, my tip would just be to try something new in general. Whether that's joining a community, or just getting out of your own bubble sometimes.

A lot of us are in our own bubble, with our own values. But I've never not liked meeting new people — it always gives you new perspectives. Whether that's going to a new shop and talking to the owner, or going to a community event and talking to someone else, it always broadens your mind.

And there's a lot going on. A lot more than you think, also in The Hague, and more and more. So just go on Instagram, Eventbrite, whatever, and do something. Or go to the Dose of Dutch group chat, if you're a girly.

HANNAH: Yes.

FRANCINE: Or The Hague Creators. Whatever — just join, meet new people, and go out of your own bubble a little bit.

HANNAH: Nice. Well, thank you for joining.

FRANCINE: Thank you.

HANNAH: The very first episode of the Dose of Dutch podcast.

FRANCINE: So interesting. I could talk for hours with you.

HANNAH: Part two coming soon.

FRANCINE: After this, with some wine, maybe.

HANNAH: And thank you for listening.