Lou Anna Red Corn

Lou Anna Red Corn is the first Native American woman appointed and elected as the Commonwealth Attorney of Lafayette County in Kentucky. 

In this episode, Lou Anna shares the details of how she prosecuted famous cases, including the murder of Trent DiGiuro. DiGiuro was shot and killed on his front porch in 1994, just 3 days shy of his 21st birthday. For 5 years, DiGiuro's murder went unsolved until a young woman came forward to expose the identity of the murderer, Shane Ragland. Lou Anna explains the process of how she prosecuted Ragland. 

Lou Anna also talks about her identity as a part of the Osage Nation, and how David Grann visited her aunt's home to write the book Killers of the Flower Moon. The book was published as a movie by Martin Scorsese in October 2023.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

A prosecutor's promise justice for children and a profound connection to the movie Killers of the Flower Moon. Join us in the First Chair.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I am your host, Cynthia Nikal, and I am a prosecutor currently in a district attorney's office where I have spent decades as an advocate, leader, and teacher. First Chair is that seat in the courtroom where you are the lead lawyer, the decision maker, and the voice of the voiceless. In every episode, we will hear from women prosecutors and their path to triumph in the courtroom, in their offices, and their lives. Today I am so excited to be joined by Luanna Redcorn, who was the Commonwealth Attorney in Faye County, Kentucky. A career prosecutor, Luanna spent 35 years in the courtroom and led that office for six years. Luanna exemplifies what it is to be a first chair. She is the first Native American woman appointed and elected as a Commonwealth attorney. Welcome to the podcast, Luana. Thank you, Cynthia. You are truly a courtroom attorney. You tried more than 225 felony cases. 51 of them were homicides. These are numbers that very few prosecutors will ever achieve in a lifetime. Out of all those cases, Luanna, there must be one case that will always resonate with you that you will always remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

That's true. There is one case. He lived in a house pretty much on campus, but it wasn't campus housing. And he and friends were outside enjoying the celebration when all of a sudden there's a shot, a loud shot, obviously, because it comes from a rifle. Trent is pretty much immediately dead on the front porch, murdered in front of his friends. Where was he shot? Shot in the head, died almost immediately. The case went unsolved for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Now a rifle, was it a close range then? How far away would the shooter or killer have been?

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Well, there was uh no way to know for sure where the rifle was, but shortly the police are on scene right away. They can tell that it's from a rifle. And so they began to look in the areas where this shot might have come from. And this street uh that he lived on is got somewhat of a is on a hill a little bit. And just up the street, up the hill from where Trent was shot was a yard with some bushes and high grass. And in searching that area, the police found an area that they thought might have been where a tripod had been rested. This was a very intentional shot in the head from a distance, likely with a scope. And so the police in looking at this area thought that this might be the spot. There would never be a way to 100% uh prove that. He did not admit to doing this to the police. He didn't take them out there and show him show the police where it happened. So, but I think what the theory was, and I think it was a very good theory.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

How did the university community react to having basically a sniper killing?

unknown 4:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Uh well, as you can imagine, it was frightening for everyone. You know, these are young people, uh, they have a lot of trust in the world around them. Their parents trust that they're going to be safe where they are. And so it seemed very tied to the university because it happened to a football player and it happened practically on campus. So there was a huge fear factor. Not to mention just whenever a young person is killed, especially under circumstances like this, it sends a community into um to fear.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Now you mentioned that the case had been unsolved. Uh, how long did it go unsolved?

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Uh well, it went unsolved for a little over five years. After the murder, the defendant, Raglan, began dating a young woman named Amy Lloyd, which is not her name now, so I'm not not telling anything that I shouldn't. But one evening while they were out on a date at a bar, really not too far from where the murder happened, they began one of these exchanges where, you know, what's the worst thing you've ever done? Sort of thing. And it was during that exchange that he admitted to her that he had killed Trent DeGiro. Now, you know, people would say, well, then why'd you stay with this guy? But she was young and and just did. But they eventually broke up. But it always nagged at her. And nagged is probably an understatement because eventually she just wondered whatever happened. She moved away. And so she was looking through the newspapers basically, you know, to find out if anything ever happened of this. Was anyone ever charged with the murder of Trent DeGiro? And she came across an article written by Trent's father just saying, someone out there knows who did this. And we just really wished that this person would talk. This was on the fifth anniversary of Trent's murder. She began to think about it and she knew. So eventually she contacted a lawyer, and that lawyer contacted the Lexington Police Department.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

So once the police found out about Amy, what were their next steps?

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Well, they took the information that she had and they coordinated with the uh Kentucky State Police because the Lexington police obviously only have jurisdiction in Fayette County. It's a big county, but they only have jurisdiction there. So they coordinate with the Lexington Police and our state police and with the FBI. One of the other things that Amy had told the police was that Shane also grew marijuana in his father's home. And his parents lived in an adjoining county or nearby county called Franklin County. So that's why the state police were involved. And then the FBI was also involved because we're talking about drugs now. So they initiated, had Amy initiate contact with Raglan again and start to develop a phone relationship, which ultimately resulted in her coming to Lexington and them meeting at the airport.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Once you got to the airport, how were you going to record the interview or this interaction?

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Well, first you got to understand Lexington's a small, a small airport. There's a one restaurant bar in there, basically. And so the police set it all up in coordination with the FBI to wire her, to coach her on how to talk to him and how to turn the conversation towards the murder and hopefully to gain some concessions or a confession from him about the murder.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

So what happened?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

So Amy came to the bar, Shane came out to the airport and met her. I guess she looked mighty pretty and he was a little bit smitten by her. And so they sat in the airport and talked for several hours. The police were all around him. She was safe the whole time. He had no real idea. Although during the conversation, he asked her, Are you trying to set me up? I think he was, you know, that she would raise that topic about the murder. But she, of course, assured him that she wasn't. She was just in town on a layover, and then she had to say goodbye because she had to catch another plane and leave. And during that conversation with her, he made some admissions that, of course, he's speaking very softly. It's very difficult to hear what he was saying, but he basically said he regretted it.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Meaning the murder of Trent. Yes, of Trent.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

So now the police have this information. Are you yet involved in the case?

SPEAKER_02 8:59

No, I'm not. Our office is. Our office is involved, and it was Ray Larson, who was our Commonwealth's attorney at the time, and Mike Malone, who was our first assistant. This is all investigation right now. So the office and the police department are playing it very close to the vest, obviously, because nobody knows this is coming. And so we typically, the police charge cases in this jurisdiction, and then it's presented to the grand jury. In this case, the case was directly presented to the grand jury, and Ms. Lloyd came and testified before the grand jury. And then he, once he was arrested, he was already under indictment. So it wasn't until we knew there was an indictment and there was very likely to be a trial that I became involved.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Now, did they do a search of Ragland's home or his family's home?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Yes. At the time that she's at the airport talking to him, search warrants are being executed. If he got a little tipped off that something wasn't quite right, he might run home. And he had told her that he still had the rifle and that was at his father's house, and there was some ammunition at his mother's house. I believe that's how it went. In any event, the police executed search warrants at both of the residents and recovered what I'm sure was the murder weapon. Okay, same type of rifle, same caliber. Same type of rifle. As we know as prosecutors, there are uh firearms examiners look at the barrels of guns, including rifles, and those barrels make imprints on the bullets that come through the gun. And so the firearm was examined for that. In addition, the police department found several other the same kind of rifle and basically got people to volunteer their guns to be part of a bigger submission so that we could look at a number of this same type of rifle. And this rifle, it matched, but the firearms examiner was not comfortable with saying absolutely matched because the gun was much older now when they did the test firing. It wasn't exactly the same, but it could have been as a result of wear and tear on the weapon.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Okay, so you have expert testimony, you have Amy's testimony where the defendant admitted to the murder. Do you go to trial?

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Well, we had one last piece of important evidence. Well, two things, obviously. One was that he had a motive to kill Trent de Jiro, as ridiculous as it might sound. He had been blackballed from a fraternity, his freshman year, and he blamed Trent de Jiro for it because of some comments De Giro had made to the fraternity president, telling the fraternity president about some ugly things that Raglan had said about the president's girlfriend. So that had resulted in Raglan being blackballed early on. This festered with Raglan for several years, and then the murder came. I mentioned that when they were executing search warrants, they executed search warrants at the mother's house and at the father's house. And in one of those seizures, they recovered some ammunition that had been produced a long time ago. So these ammunition boxes have dates on them, and you can tell when they were produced and where they were produced. So there is a technology at the time called comparative bullet lead analysis. The FBI used that technology, and so we had the bullet that came from the murder, and then the items that were recovered sent to the FBI for examination. This sounds like a high-profile case. It was, Cynthia. You're you're right. I think a lot of it just had to do with the fact, and I haven't really mentioned this, but that Raglan came from a very wealthy family in the state capitol. His father was highly regarded. He owned a lot of properties that the state rented there in Franklin County. So he came from a very well-to-do family. So you've got a young man, good-looking kid, son of a wealthy businessman, accused of murdering a football player. What was the trial like? Well, it was high profile. I mean, the the cameras were in the courtroom every day. It was very intense. Amy came and testified. She had kept a diary during her time of dating Raglan. And it was, you know, as as sometimes young women do, there was a lot of what I ate each day in the diary and how many calories I consumed. But also there were comments about her sexual relationship with Raglan, and the defense just unmercifully cross-examined her about that diary and about her sexual relationship with the defendant. And it was it was icky. I mean, I don't know any other way to describe it. I guess they were trying to say you can't believe a woman that would make notes in her personal diary about her sex life with someone. But in any event, it didn't work. And the jury found him guilty.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

What was his sentence?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

He was sentenced to 30 years. It wasn't a death penalty case. We didn't have any aggravating circumstances or anything. So he was sentenced to 30 years. And as is required under Kentucky law, he had an automatic appeal to the Kentucky Supreme Court.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

And what happened at the Supreme Court?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

During the interim, and this is an important thing that happened, the FBI had been challenged over the years about this comparative bullet-led analysis. And prior to the trial and prior to the judge letting that come in, we had what was called a Dalbert hearing for the court to rule on the admissibility and the reliability of that particular science. And the defense had put on their own expert about the unreliability of comparative bullet-led analysis. The court ruled in our favor, allowed the evidence to come in, but during the interim, from the time of the trial until the appeal was final, the FBI changed their mind about that and came to a conclusion that it was not reliable science and they were no longer going to do it. So the Kentucky Supreme Court reasoned that because that was so important, was of an important piece of our evidence in this case, they reversed the case and sent it back to be retried.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

So the case is set for retrial. What do you do?

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Well, Amy Lloyd was afraid. And in fact, during the time of the trial until after the trial, some very strange things had happened regarding her searches from companies saying that she had applied for a credit card when she hadn't, people wanting to find out her personal information. And she was frightened. I mean, she was legitimately frightened because this isn't the kind of case that we frequently have where the parties involved don't have the ability to track down witnesses. And she was afraid. The Lexington Police Department, one of the detectives that worked primarily with Amy, worked with the federal government for Amy to have her name changed, to have a new social security number issued, and to basically give her a new identity. But Cynthia, this could only happen one time. And so she testified. Ray, who was my boss at the time, had assured her if you testify, this other thing is going to happen and you're going to be safe. You will have done the right thing and you will be able to go on with the rest of your life knowing you did the right thing and knowing that he can never find you. Well, now the case has been reversed and we have to try it again. So there was obviously considerable concern for bringing Amy back for finding her. I believe, I don't know this, but I I know that we talked a lot with the lawyer she had through all this process that she'd gotten married, had children. It's questionable what any of her her new life knew about what had happened. And Ray had made a promise. And so the decision came down to honoring that promise and letting him plead guilty to something much less than he deserved, and ultimately that was what happened. How did Trent's family take in? Uh well, um Trent's parents and family were just wonderful people, just good human beings. They were there every step of the way with us. They uh supported us the prosecution of the case and and how we proceeded. They we honored that with listening to their input. But when we got to this point and the thing about having to plead to something less, I I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for them, knowing that he was going to be out of prison soon. Because he's in in prison now all this time. And but they they understood what Ray had done. They understood the promise that he had made and and they respected that and to us expressed that they accepted it. You know, I don't know how they felt at home in the privacy of their home. But I believe that while they didn't like it, they respected it and and accepted it. And you just couldn't ask for as a prosecutor for someone to be that kind to you and generous to you because they would have been completely justified in yelling and screaming and you know angry. And being angry. Just flat out angry. You're right, flat out angry about it.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

What happened to Raglan?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Well, um, some might call it karma. He got out of prison. Well, he got sued, first of all, by transparenents, because they understandably thought that he would get out of prison and then he has the resource to go right on with his life. So they sued him and had won, I think, sixty-three million dollars. It was like one of the, at the time, the second largest verdict there'd ever been in this state. So they sued him. He got out of prison. He was involved in a vehicular uh in a wreck. He was seriously injured, paralyzed from the waist down. I don't know where he is today and what has happened to him, but some might say it was karma.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Now, why does this case stick with you?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Well, first of all, it it went on for a very long time. I mean, it's it's one of these cases that has had has been a fascination for people all over the world, in the country at least, and and there's been a number of television shows about it, dateline, then a variety of things on the internet about it. So it's kind of always been there. And it's also just stuck with me because I just it's one of these cases where you just can't say justice was done. And that's something we have to live with as prosecutors when it doesn't go the way it should for the victim's family. Because they turn to us, right? I mean, we're that's we can't fix it, but we can certainly do what we can to make someone responsible and let there be consequences for what has happened. And in this case, we let them down.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

I think in every prosecutor's career, no matter how long or how short, there's always one case, whether you win or you lose, but that just resonates in your soul. And Trent DeJuro's case is yours.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Luenna, how did you end up as a prosecutor?

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Well, after a couple years as a public defender in eastern Kentucky, I felt like it was time to do a couple things, move back to the city, and then also to do what I really wanted to do, and that was prosecute, not defend. And so I interviewed for a job here in Lexington. Didn't get it the first time around, but um remained persistent. A little more than six months after I had interviewed the first time, there was a second opening in the office, and I was hired, and that began my career as a prosecutor.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Now, how big is Fayette County in terms of the office for the district attorney or commonwealth attorney?

SPEAKER_02 21:38

We have two prosecutors in this county. One is what's called the county attorney, and the county attorney does juveniles, abuse, neglect, dependency, misdemeanors, those kinds of cases. And the Commonwealth's attorney prosecutes all the felony cases. So our office only did felony cases, and at the time Ray hired me. I think we had about nine lawyers in the office. I made the third woman, and then I think there were maybe four or five men, that included Ray. So it was not a very big office as term in terms of big prosecutors' office, but we were probably the second biggest one in the state at the time. The county itself was probably around 200,000 at the time. It's now about 330,000. It's the second largest jurisdiction here in Kentucky.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

And it includes Lexington, the city of Lexington.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yes. So we are what's called a merged urban county government. So Lexington is Fayette County, and Fayette County is Lexington.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Now is that where you did your first trial?

SPEAKER_02 22:44

My very first trial. You get right on in there. So my first trial was a felony assault trial of a woman who shot her husband.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

And what happened?

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Well, the woman's name was Mary Ann, and of course, in preparing for trial, I went to visit her uh in her home. She lived in a very isolated and poor county here in Kentucky, and went with my investigator to her home, and I was kind of shocked to find out that the home that she lived in had dirt floors and no running water, which was I I've never been in a home with dirt floors and no running water. And um, so that was a real eye-opener, if you will, for me, about the rest of the world in some ways. But Marianne had shot her husband because her husband had a knife to her son's throat. And so obviously she was a she was a victim of domestic violence. That came in at the trial. We went to trial, she was acquitted. I was tickled, of course, that she was found not guilty. I remember the the prosecutor, the elected in that county, when the jury knocked on the door and said that they had a verdict. He said they couldn't even have had time to read the instructions. But it was very clear that uh Marianne was acting in self-protection. So the jury did the right thing, even though maybe they did it quicker than the prosecutor thought they ought.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

So your first trial, you had a client acquitted in minutes.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Yes. Yes. Trialers are generally a competitive group of people. And while we do it for the right reasons, we also like to win. So that was a big win for me. And I felt like I can do this, I can be a trial attorney.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So you felt as though you found your calling at that point.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yes. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Child fatalities, child abuse cases, that was your specialty.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Yes. You know, we all have the cases that we are drawn to as prosecutors. For some people, it's drug cases. For some, it's domestic violence. And for some people, it's child sexual abuse, child fatalities, child abuse. The most vulnerable victims, they deserve the most care. And I I felt like I had the skills to be able to do those cases and and to do a good job for those children and their families.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

I think when you describe that you found your calling as a public defender to be in the courtroom, I think you also found your calling to represent and speak for the vulnerable victims, whether it is a client that was a victim of domestic violence and accused of shooting her husband and then the child as the victim in a case that you needed to take to court.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

Yeah. I hope that people will think that of me. Life is hard and the criminal justice system is tough, especially on victims. And every child deserves a prosecutor that knows what they're doing. They deserve an investigation that's properly done. And that can be done through a multidisciplinary team. And they deserve somebody that believes. It's sad, Cynthia, but you know this. Not everybody is a believer. And a child deserves an advocate in the courtroom.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Now you mentioned the words multidisciplinary team. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Well, you know, when I started, Cynthia, um, child sexual abuse cases were prosecuted very differently than they are now. I mean, back in the 1980s, early 80s, first of all, there weren't a lot of those cases prosecuted. Kids went to the police department, and then they went to social services, and then they might have a medical exam at the health department, and and then the maybe there'd be a charge by the police. Uh, there wasn't any real thought about therapy for a child. Like I said, sometimes there was a medical exam, and everybody was kind of running their own little show. The social services did an investigation, police did an investigation, sometimes the prosecutor's office might do their own investigation. By the time it was over, the child had talked to three, five, maybe even more different people about what had happened to them, and uh probably was thinking to themselves, why bother? Nobody believes me anyway.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

And it also creates more trauma to the child.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Absolutely. Absolutely. And the consequence of all that is recanting and not wanting to go along with it, and feeling that people don't believe you because if they did, they wouldn't keep asking you the same thing over and over again. That's what the multidisciplinary team has done and has continued to do in child sexual abuse investigations and other investigations with the elderly, but really with children, it's I think it has been monumental and had a huge impact on the way that we address child sexual abuse, how we care for victims, how we conduct investigations.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

So it minimizes the repeated interviews and takes the child on a more gentle journey, if you will, to the courtroom?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yes, absolutely. The team itself is the investigation, and then the other thing that most many jurisdictions have and that we eventually established here in Lexington was the Children's Advocacy Center, where all the work related to child intervention is done. So the child goes to one spot to for the interview, for the medical exam, for therapy, and then that's where the team meets to discuss the case.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

And where do you step in as one of the assigned prosecutors?

SPEAKER_02 28:54

It in our jurisdiction, the prosecutor is the facilitator. So for many years, at least 20 years, well, until I became the elected, I was one of the, in the beginning, the only facilitator for the team. And then as time went on and it became more and more demanding, I was one of two facilitators for the team. So weekly would meet with the team and discuss each new allegation of child sexual abuse in Fayette County.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Would you also be the prosecutor trying the case?

SPEAKER_02 29:27

No, no. I would on some of the cases, but because there were so many cases, other prosecutors would have those cases. But I would be the one to go to the team and talk about the case on their behalf.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Okay. Now, Luanna, you are the first Native American elected prosecutor. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 29:49

It means everything. I'm proud to represent my people. And I know my people are proud of me. Frequently, when I'm back in Oklahoma, of course, now I'm retired, but whenever I'm back in Oklahoma and I get introduced by a fellow tribal member or family member, that's one of the first things they say. And she's the DA in Lexington, Kentucky. So they're proud of me and I'm and I'm proud to represent my people.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

And you are a member of the Osage Nation, correct?

SPEAKER_02 30:19

The Osage Nation. It's interesting, I guess, that Kentucky is part of the uh Osage ancestral land, so I'm I'm kind of back home here uh in Kentucky, although there are there's no Osage footprint here in Kentucky anymore. But it's a very, very special thing to me.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Now, being a member of the Osage Nation, how did that enhance you as a prosecutor?

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Well, I think that being Indian or native it has enhanced me as a prosecutor. You know, my my dad is Osage, my mother's white. They both grew up in the same town. My mother's parents were against her dating him, against her marrying him or being with him because he was Indian. Consequently, they eloped. Her parents disowned her. Eventually, when I had an older brother that passed away, they made amends. But that I think really informed the way they approached life. And part of that was my dad and mom, and him being Indian, and the maybe hate is too strong a word, I don't know. But the feelings that they received from her family really informed, I think, the way that they raised me and my brother and sister. So that's kind of a roundabout way of demonstrating in my mind, and I can see this, how being Indian, being Osage, has affected, has impacted the way I view the world, including the cases that come before me and how we treat people, victims or defendants in the criminal justice system.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

And by that you mean treating them with fairness, decency, and dignity.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Now I saw a photo of you at your swearing-in ceremony for the Commonwealth attorney, and you're wearing a blanket. What is the significance of a blanket?

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yes, so in native culture, in many native cultures, including the Osage, it is customary to wrap someone in a blanket. That might happen when a person is being honored in some way, and in this instance, of course, being sworn in as the elected district attorney is an honor. And so my aunt came from Oklahoma. We used the blanket that my mom's in-laws had given her when my mom and dad got married, and she wrapped me in the blanket. A sign of love, support from the family, and respect and honor.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

That is beautiful. Now we've been talking about the Osage Nation. I've been seeing a lot in the media about Osage as of late. What's going on?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Yeah, well, this is a big time for our people, Cynthia. We it begins with obviously a horrible, horrible circumstance, and that is the murder of many Osage. Maybe 60 to 100 Osage were murdered in the 1920s for their wealth. And it resulted in an investigation by the FBI. A few people were prosecuted, most went unprosecuted. Basically, a community here and there in Pahuska, Oklahoma, where the Osages were, where there was a systemic approach to uh getting the Osage's wealth through murder, poisoning, shooting. So, late 2000 in the teens, David Grant came to Pahuska, came to my aunt's home, and wanted to write a book about this. He was looking for something to write about, came across this story and conducted a lot of research, went into the FBI archives, interviewed a lot of people, and wrote a book called Killers of the Flower Moon. And it was bestseller, New York Times bestseller. A couple years later, Martin Scorsese and Apple produced the screen, brought the rights to write a movie, and that was produced during COVID in Pahuska. So many of my family are in front of the camera, behind the camera. Lots of Osages are involved. The production team just really was considerate about including Osage's every step of the way. And the movie is, I've seen it. I got to go to the New York premiere of it last week. Oh my goodness. It's really, really good. And um, I hope anybody listening to this or not listening to our podcast goes to see it.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

That was amazing. What is it like to be on the red carpet? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

It's uh, you know, I probably shouldn't have been there. So I was a little anxious about anybody speaking to me. You know, in some ways it's kind of like being in the courtroom, right? Everybody's looking at you. If they could ask you questions, they would. Uh so, but it was it was a very enjoyable experience for me, and I'm super excited for uh the rest of my friends to see the movie. In fact, my husband and I have bought 30 tickets to the premiere, and we're taking all of our closest friends.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

That is gonna be fun. Popcorn is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

Yeah, the whole yard, the whole nine yards.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

And a good movie to watch, no less.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Yes, I think they will they will be entertained and they will be educated. And uh, like so many things, they will say, I didn't know anything about that. I never learned about that in history class. And this is true of so many marginalized people in our country. There are so many stories out there that happen to people that we just don't talk about.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Now, going back to your parents, what story is there that that you would like to share about your parents?

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Oh gosh. Well, my parents were very supportive of me, and and I got one little thing that I always that kind of reminds me of all that. When I was in the third grade, the teacher called my mom and dad in for a conference, and my dad, I guess being my dad, was like, okay, what has Luann done? She's in trouble, we gotta go see the teacher. Teacher called them in, and I wasn't present for this, obviously, but my dad and mom told me after, when they went in there, the teacher said, if this little girl doesn't get to go to college, it's gonna be um a cry and shame or a or a travesty or a tragedy, uh, words to that effect. The teacher thought that I had I had it. I had what it took to succeed, at least in that way, to go to college, to do, to do something really good in the world. And that really resonated with my mom and dad. I mean, it really, really did. I don't know what they thought about me up to that point, what their future hopes and dreams were for me. But certainly from that moment on, because my dad talks about that and has talked about it his whole life, that they felt a responsibility to make sure that that happened. That I got to go to college. I mean, and this is during a time when there is no guarantee anybody's gonna go to college, right? I mean, especially uh uh an Indian woman. So they really were loving and supportive, and and I was just really fortunate to have a mom and a dad like that to to launch me into the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

So if I asked you who inspires you, would it be your parents?

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Well, yes, yes. Although, you know, now they're my mother's deceased, my dad is 89 now. So now I think if I was asked that about who who inspires me, I I'm to this point in my life where I'm inspired by the people that I've kind of surrounded myself with, my friends, and my women friends. I mean, because that's the as friends go, that's the people that I'm closest to. You know, and they're not all lawyers, they might be professors or doctors or neighbors, but I think as women, it's really important to surround yourself with other women. And each one of those other women is gonna be kinder, smarter, funnier than you are. They're gonna have something about each of them that's gonna be better than you are and inspire you to be better yourself. So I at this point in my life, I can't say that it's one person. I can just I would say that it is the good fortune I have to be surrounded by really amazing people.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

And that is the circle that all women should follow, that we have people that are with us, supports us, and carries us through bad times and good times. That's so true. Now, as the Commonwealth Attorney, the district attorney, what act are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_02 39:26

If you want to talk about community, what am I most proud of about uh of what I've done in my community? I would probably have to say the child sexual abuse work because it gonna be living on long after I'm gone. I mean, it wasn't just me, Ray and I, and and many others, because we got a, you know, we got a board together, we got we got protocols established and and all that kind of stuff, but I've had the opportunity to work on so many things related to child sexual abuse investigations, prosecutions, best practices, raising money for the Children's Advocacy Center. I serve on the National Children's Alliance Board, which which is the organization that accredits children's advocacy centers. I'm most proud of that because it impacts so many people, children, and it lives on after I'm gone. Legacy. Yeah, yeah, and that's what we all want, isn't it? It's just to have done something that really makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Absolutely. So there's probably a new prosecutor listening somewhere. What advice do you have for him or her or then?

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Yes. Well, if it's a woman that's listening, my advice would be first of all to find a mentor and an advocate. Because you're going to need both those things along the way. One of the things that I really became and have developed some real knowledge about was child sexual abuse prosecutions. And that was Ray. I mean, that was Ray saying, I want you to go to Huntsville, Alabama. I want you to learn about multidisciplinary teams, I want you to set up a program for us here in Lexington. Would I have raised my hand and volunteered for that? I don't know. But he he was a mentor and a sponsor, and he pushed me to these things. And then later, as a when I what I'm going to call a sponsor or advocate, he always had good things to say about me to other people. And I think that's really important when you're trying to work your way up in anything that you're doing. It's one thing for me to beat my chest and say, I'm really good at what I do, but it's another thing for someone that other people respect and know to say she really does know what she's doing.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

I agree. It's always good, no matter what field you're in, to have some to have a voice in another room when someone asks about you.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

That is a great way to say it. A voice in another room.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Would you recommend that any every prosecutor, no matter where they are in the office, a veteran or a new prosecutor, to have that advocate for them?

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. You don't always know what might be the best thing for you. And and that's what a sponsor or an advocate can do for you.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

And it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be the elected prosecutor. It could be a mid-level supervisor or or a fellow colleague that's parallel to you that just looks out for you.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Exactly right. And sometimes those people are better because they're with you day in and day out. They know perhaps better than someone uh higher up the chain what your skill set is, you know, where your challenges are, and can help you with those things. Stay curious, learn, let somebody push you out of your comfort zone to learn something more, to go into a space where you don't feel comfortable, so that the day comes you do feel comfortable. And in being curious, you're going to learn about parts of the criminal law or issues, whether it's child sexual abuse like I did, or domestic violence, or overdose deaths, or any there are any number of areas of criminal law that really do call for knowledge and staying curious and learning. That's I would that would be my advice too, because you're going to be able to build a reputation for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Now, somewhere out there, there is uh someone new in leadership. Whether it's middle management or a newly elected prosecutor, what advice do you have?

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Again, back to the staying curious, learn. I mean, great trial attorneys don't necessarily make great leaders. I think we've all seen that uh somewhere along the way. But leadership, it comes naturally for some, but for most, I don't think it really does. We have to learn. We can learn how to be good leaders. And we can do that through reading, seminars, leadership coach. There's all sorts of ways to learn how to become a good leader and how to inspire people to want to do a good job. Not threaten them into doing a good job, but inspire them to do a good job. So that would be one piece of advice. And then the other piece of advice I would have is, you know, learn to trust yourself. You're there because you worked hard and you earned it, and people believe in you. People believe in you. Believe in yourself. You have the skills and the judgment to make good decisions. That's not to say don't listen to what other people have to say, but you can't do it like the person that was there before you. And I know this. You know, Ray was an awesome Commonwealth attorney. But I'm not Ray, it wasn't Ray Larson. I couldn't do it like he did it, because I'm not him. That doesn't mean I couldn't still do it and do it well.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

What's the best part about being a prosecutor?

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Oh, well, I guess kind of that feeling at the end of a trial when what you think should happen happens. When the jury finds the offender guilty, when the victim feels the relief. It's not healing, I know it's not healing for them, but the relief that at least this thing has come to an end and someone is responsible. I mean, the sh the sheer relief and joy of hugging the mother of a deceased family member and knowing that you you helped in some way to give them some feeling that this horrible thing that happened to them, at least there's been some consequence. I think there's just where else can you get that kind of affirmation for the work that you do? There's just not very many places.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

The hardest part about being a prosecutor.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

The same thing. You know, when it doesn't go like that, you know, kind of like going back to the Shane, the Shane Raglan case, when it just it doesn't turn out the way that it should. And you say goodbye to somebody who you know you may or might not ever see again, but you know you're leaving them in a puddle, in a mess, in a conundrum that is going to take them a really long time to get out of, and you weren't able to help show them the way out.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Now you're retired, Luanna. I am. What does a retired Luanna Redcorn look like?

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Uh a retired Luanna Redcorn keeps learning, keeps stepping out of her comfort zone. I am uh teaching a course at the University of Kentucky College of Law on Capital Punishment. In some ways it's like being in front of a jury, but in other ways, I um it's a lot of work. Just because you can try a death penalty case doesn't mean you can teach the constitutional law about a death penalty case. So I've spent a lot of time on that. I have uh been traveling back to Oklahoma once a month. I am not doing it this fall like I was because I'm here at UK, but uh volunteering for the Osage Nation, the Attorney General's office there. And, you know, having been raised away from Oklahoma, I'm just I'm just enjoying being an Indian. And I know that probably sounds odd, but when you are raised and live in an area where there are no natives and your people aren't there, and the things, the community is there, it isn't here. And so I've just really enjoyed being with my family, being with other Osages, participating in tribal activities and culture, and um, it's just been the best.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Sounds like you're still paying it forward, but rediscovering your roots. Yes, you're exactly right. All right, Luenna, this is rapid fire. Say the first thing that comes to your mind. Ready? Yes. Sweet or savory? Sweet. Texting or talking? Texting. Aha. For a lawyer, a prosecutor in the courtroom, you want to text. Okay. Summer or winter? I guess fall isn't one of the choices. I'll say summer.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Fall. I'm a fall girl.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

You're a fall girl. Pumpkin spice lattes and apple cider. Pumpkin spice latte. Okay. Final question, Luanna. What does justice mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 49:25

It's kind of like all the things that we talked about today. Justice means different things for a single action. It means giving a community assurance that you are doing the best for them, that you're giving them a safe place to live, that there are consequences for behaviors so that people feel safe in the community they live in. For victims, it means providing them some assurance that what happened to their loved one, that someone will be responsible for it. And for me personally, justice means that when I leave the office every day, I have done the best work that I could do, and that it's been honest, it's been transparent, and that it's been what it should be, that it is I did what the right thing to do was. And to me, that is justice.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Beautifully said. Luanna, I am so privileged that you shared your passion for child safety. You gave us a glimpse into your career and your dedication to seeking justice. Luanna Redcorn, you are the first chair in the courtroom as well as the boss's office. But most importantly, you are a first chair to every member of the Osage Nation. And for that, I thank you. Thank you so much. And to our listeners, please join us for the next podcast where we have another conversation with another great prosecutor. And until next time, do yourself justice.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Within her office, Cynthia served as the first designated Asian gang prosecutor and the founding deputy in charge of a multidisciplinary database for child abuse. She was also the first appointed professional responsibility advisor. Her colleagues nicknamed her the Ethics Guru for her caring nature and unparalleled professionalism in providing sound, professional, and ethical advice. She is now in a leadership position and oversees felony and misdemeanor prosecutions. Cynthia has become a prominent mentor and role model, not only to many young prosecutors, but students and non-lawyers as well. She lectures extensively on ethics and trial advocacy to prosecutors on national and international platforms. Cynthia has received national recognition as the Distinguished Assistant Prosecutor from the National District Attorneys Association, where she has been a longtime faculty member. At home, Cynthia is first chair to her rescue dogs and yoga mat.