Ep. 3: Our Worst Lash Appointments, Biggest Mistakes & What We Actually Learned

In this episode of Behind the Brilliance, co-hosts Danielle and Ashtyn get candid about their worst lash appointments, early career mishaps, and the technique mistakes nobody prepared them for. From mega volume disasters and allergic reaction protocols to client communication, isolation standards, and why ongoing education matters at every stage, this conversation is honest, practical, and full of takeaways for lash artists at any level.

TIMESTAMPS:

0:00 – Introduction and episode setup

0:16 – Worst lash appointments and mega volume disasters

0:42 – The lash artist Instagram mix-up

2:23 – Removing lash sets and handling allergic reactions

3:28 – Early lashing mistakes and extra-thick classic lashes

5:25 – Navigating client feedback and unhappy clients

6:40 – Troubleshooting retention and allergic reactions

8:04 – The hardest parts of learning and testing curls

10:38 – Pinching vs. rolling fanning techniques

12:51 – Mastering isolation and adhesive amount

14:09 – Customizing lash curls and handling timing pressure

15:53 – The importance of lash cleansing

17:15 – Adhesive lifespans and communication tips

18:40 – Fixes for technique errors and continuing education

19:54 – Mid-set adjustments and addressing overconfidence

21:12 – Ashtyn's retention fail and client-side troubleshooting

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•  Instagram: @brilliantlashpro  |  Ashtyn: @lashandtatsxash  |  Coaching: @thelashexecutive

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We're about to roast ourselves. Today we're sharing our biggest lashing fails, and trust me, they suck.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello guys, and welcome back to Behind the Brilliance. I am Ashton. And I'm Danielle.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

And this is episode three. Woohoo! We're doing a little casual today. We we left the desk because we have some heavy-duty episodes ahead. So I thought we'd talk today about our biggest lashing mistakes. We'll go ahead and give Ashton the questions she hasn't read yet. So hopefully they're winners.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Okay, Danielle, you've been lashing for 17 years. Surely you've had some disasters. What's the worst lash appointment you've ever done?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Oh, um, honestly, I think it was my first time doing a mega volume set. That was the worst, the worst ever, ever, ever. Did they look like caterpillars? Uh they they looked horrible and they were still not full enough for her. And so I got scarred for life on Mega because I'm like, I'm not very, I'm not, I can't even appease people who want mega volume. Um, yeah, I remember I think I was here for like five hours, like adding more, adding more, adding more. I think my original training with Mega was on the conservative side where it's you know bigger fans, but um, they just weren't big enough. The customer who was from another country might have been Russia, I can't remember. So I don't know if she had some weird, unrealistic expectations of like stacking different fans, but that was a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Oh my god, guys. Funny story. When I first applied here, there's somebody else with like a similar username as me, and she just does like I'm talking like 22 millimeter, extra, extra, extra long lashes, huge, fluffy, full. And I'm the complete opposite. All of mine are so natural and like angelic. And she was like, Is this you? And like texted the girl, and I was like, Yes, this is my work.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I yeah, I deemed her, I DM'd her because your your username's like lash x ash, and it was like another form of lash x ash with with or without underscores or something. And I messaged her, we had an interview that same day. I asked you to come in for an audition, and between the interview and the audition, I DM'd this girl and I said, Did you do these lashes? And she responded, Yeah, I did. And it was funny, it wasn't it wasn't yours. It is not. Ashton. Yes, ma'am. What has been your biggest oh no moment? Have you ever had to remove a full set and start over?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

No.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

I mean, I haven't ever had to remove a set either that I did.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

I'm just really good, so I don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Great answer.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I will say I think the only time that I've ever had to like remove a set is because somebody, it wasn't even my work, but somebody like was having an allergic reaction. So she came in and asked me to remove them.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

But which by the way, if someone has an allergic reaction, you should never use remover to remove them. You should remove them annually. That's just correct. A tip. Um, I will say this was a sad time that I had to remove lashes. Was um I had a client come in and she went home and her husband didn't like them. And so he said she came in the next day and she said I have to take them off now. And I was like, that is so sad.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Hell no.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, do not be with a man who doesn't like your lashes.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

That's that's a headache.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

That's pathetic.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

We don't do that. No, you're back in the hot seat. Take me back to your first year of lashing. This is a while back. This is when she was born. The year you were born when I was gonna be able to. Take me back to 2007. I was coming out of my mother. Shout out mommy Holly for birthing me. Oh take me back to your first year of lashing, aka my first year of life. What were you doing wrong?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Well, I was using uh.25 millimeter lash extensions. What is that? 0.25. So classic?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

It's 0.15.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, and then it goes up to 0.2, which is too big, and it goes point to goes up to 0.25. I had a client who wanted 0.3s. I had a whole set of 0.3 thickness lashes, which is literally like I have never heard of this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Wait, so it's like classic lashes or it's just that thick?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Very thick. Thick.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Ow.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah. Yeah, that was the reality. I know some of y'all remember that. Yeah. Which is actually funny because as as life went on, a 0.2 was a standard for me. Like a 0.25 was, you know, someone who wanted it more dramatic. Volume wasn't a thing yet. But as things progressed, I can't even do use a 0.2 anymore. And 0.15s are getting hard for me. It's almost like I have to deal with like thinner lashes. I can't even work with thick lashes anymore. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

What's a mistake that you cringe about now?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I mean, that really, it's just those really, really thick lashes. Because I've always been a fan of getting your client like a hundred percent full. So someone so full with those lashes, I can I could literally, it's burned into my brain an Instagram post from like 2012 where it was. I'll have to find that post. I'll find it in my archives. I was proud of it at the time, but it's cringy now.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Did you ever have a client complain or leave unhappy?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

I for sure I've had clients leave unhappy. I will say it's uncommon for a client to leave unhappy and be honest about it. I mean, it doesn't really happen anymore, but I think it's happened, it happens all the time, where a client won't be open and honest if they don't like something that you did. And so, you know, if that happens, usually, you know, that you learn about it at their fill or um too late in the game. So just another like, like as a tip, this moment. I'm just gonna take this moment to share this tip that I think everyone can benefit from because I myself am shy in the moment of giving feedback. Be over like over the top with your clients on feedback. Tell me what you like, tell me what you don't like, because people will just not say it. And I can only say that because I'm that person too. So um, usually though, I again I do, I really like open that door. Like, tell me what you like, tell me what I'm not here. I always say you can't hurt my feelings unless you tell me I'm fat. So, you know, if that doesn't give you enough freedom to tell me how you feel, then I don't know what does.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

But what's the worst retention you've ever had and why?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Well, before Clarity Cleanser came to the scene, um, I definitely had trouble with my oilier clients. I felt a huge difference when I started using Clarity at the beginning of my appointments, but then in addition to that, people washing their own lashes was a game changer for me on the retention.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Have you ever had an allergic reaction situation?

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

How did you handle it?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Um, usually, you know, I tell clients that it doesn't happen the same day. So if they wake up the next day and they're swollen in their eyelids, it's a pretty textbook look. I'm sure we can pull one from training. Um I always say it's gonna the swelling will subside within 24 to 48 hours. You should just enjoy your lashes rather than just jumping to take them off because the reaction has already happened. So take a Benadryl, there's over-the-counter creams, eye drops, orals. Um, if they insist on removing them, then I have them come in and and um manually remove them. But I've been having some good results with using flonese on clients who have allergic reactions. So dabbing a little flonese on their eyelid before and after their appointment, and um they're not having reactions. And I always tell a client, do that that's at your own discretion. I have them bring their own flonase. I'm not here to diagnose or promise anything, but I have that has been working for me. What was the hardest part about learning the lash for you?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

You know what I'm saying? Like after making a fan, like picking it up.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

And that's for your more recent learning? Because I know you learned like from my very beginning. Anytime. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is that's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah, picking it up, picking it up, keeping all the bases together, because I feel like when I first started picking them up, everything would just kind of go all over the place. Okay, and so it kind of took me like my first like training day.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

I was like, but I just edited our last podcast today, and you said that even when you were learning our new fanning technique, how it changed the game just to have a better quality lash extension. So, and that if only you had soft line when you first started learning. If only have you ever had a client whose lashes just didn't turn out how you wanted?

SPEAKER_01 9:02

I mean, probably, not like at the top of my head. I can't like think of like a specific situation, but I'm sure that that has happened, especially in my earlier days. I think it's really hard to figure out what kind of like mapping goes with each person's eyes in the beginning stages. Like, that's definitely something that's like very trial and error, and I feel like symmetry is really difficult in the very beginning, so I can't think of like a specific situation, but I'm like sure that that yeah has been a thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, and I this is something I've been doing more recently when in doubt. I just have them open their eyes a little bit halfway through the appointment. Yeah, I never even used to do that, but recently I was like, you know what, I want to see how this is turning out, and like you could use a mirror, but I feel like nothing compares to them actually opening their eyes. So I've been like stopping halfway through, leaving their iPads on, saying, Hey, this is gonna feel really weird, but I just want to look. Yeah, because then it kind of gives you like, oh wait, like, is that curl working in the way that you wanted it to? Because I just feel more than ever, people's lashes are just so different in the way that they they land.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

So this has doesn't really have that much to do with what we're talking about, but I kind of want to like explore into like mixing curls together. Yeah, maybe I'll do that on Jaden today. Maybe I'll do C C's and C's on her.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

What did you do last time?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

C's.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Do you think they weren't curly enough for her? I think she's longer for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Really?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

I think she's like hoochie long once. Like twelves. What'd you have on her?

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Up to 10.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Oh, that probably maybe even 13 spikes or something. I know. Her strips were dramatic, girl. What's something you thought you were doing right but later realized was wrong?

unknown 10:46

Pinching.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Okay. I don't agree with that because I do think that in certain situations, pinching, okay. I don't think that there's any rights or wrongs. Except like if you're not isolating right, then that's wrong. But like I feel like I've always said isolated right. Yeah. Um not right or wrong, but when I did learn the very first time, I learned to always pinch my fan. So it's the only fanning method that I was taught. I do think that there's a time and place for that. But after Danielle taught me, what do you even call it?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Rolling? Rolling. Rolling, fan and roll.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Fan, roll.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Stop, drop, and roll. I don't know, rolling. Rolling away. Rolling away. Yeah. We like to roll. We roll on a rolling on a strip.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah. Um, I feel like I still don't think that pinching is wrong. I think that if I were to be doing a heavy mega volume, or even just like a heavier volume, I would still pinch. But I think that rolling your fans does make it more natural, which has honestly kind of become like my specialty.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Natural. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

When it used to actually be big, fluffy mega volumes. That's used to be all I would do, and now all of a sudden I'm just like natural.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

So I think you're right. Like I was teasing about the pinching only because um I do rarely see pinching turning out like able to pass the standards that we set here. And that's more so because of bases. Yeah. Um, it and that still comes down to the pincher. Obviously, there's different pinching methods, and you're some people are gonna be better at pinching than others, but I've seen a lot of pinching that ends up in very loose, like frayed bases, or too much adhesive. And so, um, no, I think you're right. As far as pinching is great for creating heavier sets, we're just in in our locations, and I think industry-wide people are moving towards less fluffy and more natural looks.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Why do you think isolation is so hard for beginners?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

I think it's just it's like learning we use chopsticks for the first time. It's tedious. Yeah, you have to use your end of tweezers to like do everything for you. So yeah, I think isolation is just a muscle memory thing that's tough to gather at first.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Do you have any isolation fails?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Not me. No, I mastered that right from the start. I had a good trainer though. I had a mentor and a trainer, and it was like done right or not done at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So I don't really think that I ever had any like isolation fails in my beginning stages. Like, I wouldn't really like go through at the end of each set and like check my isolation. So maybe I would have like one or two stickies, but like I've never had a situation where like I've had a fail.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Glued everybody. I think you either get it or you don't.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

No, exactly. And I think that that's the main thing. Like, I don't care what your sets look like, I don't care what fan you're doing. If you don't isolate right, you should not be doing lashes. I'm sorry, but that's how you ruin people.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, that's that's definitely number one. How do you know if you're using too much adhesive?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

So, like in volume sets, I can tell that I'm using too much adhesive if I see a bead.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah. You should not see a little circle bead at the end of your base because that's one gonna make it bulky. Two stickies, three, damaging.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

She said it. That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

How do you know what curl to use?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

I would say there's no way to surely know, because it is an experiment, but you're really looking at the facial features, how the eyes are placed, in more, you know, deep set, not deep set. I mean, honestly, I have clients look to the side and I like look at their side profile. Like I have them look straight. Cause sometimes you can then see like, do their lashes go up or down? My my lashes go up, so my lashes are really curly naturally. We're you know, so so really addressing the client's anatomy is the only way to surely choose a good curl, but even then, I always tell clients it's a graduation process, I'm gonna choose the best styling that I think is gonna work for you today. But let me know at your next appointment what you loved and what you didn't love, so I can make that better for you.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I also think that the curl is a very important and crucial part of the lashes. Like me, for example, we did C's on me once, and I absolutely hated them. I mean, they didn't look bad, but I just didn't like them on me. But like another example is I have a client and she's like gorgeous, love her, she's a queen, but she loves de-curl lashes, and I'm just like, girl, those don't look good.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Preference, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

It's very much preference. Yeah, I don't think they look good, but she's obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Exactly. Totally. Yeah. Do you ever feel pressure to go faster? Slow and steady wins the race. I'll tell you when I feel pressure to go faster, when Ashton gives me 20-minute timers to do her lashes and be and she gets Aantsy and needs to get up, and I feel pressure. I feel so much pressure.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Anyways, no, I don't feel pressure to go faster. You're on my time. Why do some artists skip the cleanse?

SPEAKER_00 15:58

I don't know. Why do you skip the cleanse?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah, you should stop doing that.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

I don't think anyone skips cleanses these days. I think that really I do you think people skip cleansing?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I feel like they definitely do. I see some of those lash with me's, and some of those lashes are gross.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Oh no. Don't skip the cleanse. Like, even when somebody comes in fresh out of the shower or they say, Oh, I just cleaned my lashes, I'm like, that's cool. I'm gonna clean them anyway because you want to dissolve the grime and grease. Don't skip the cleanse and don't skip on telling your clients to cleanse. And I think that can prevent issues sometimes because people think that you know, lashes have been around for a long time. They've been other places where another lash artist didn't tell them to cleanse or told them they could use baby shampoo or whatever. But I think it's super important to to be that lash authority to your clients and say, you need to clean your lashes. I don't care what you, you know, what you did in your last lash relationship. Um, did you track humidity when you first started?

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yes. I didn't really know what it meant, but like I did, so I had a hydrometer. Yeah. I don't really know what I was doing with it, but I had one. She was tracking. She didn't know what she was tracking. She didn't know what I was tracking, but you know. She knows now. It was there. Have you ever used adhesive past four weeks?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Not that I can remember, but I have been involved in formulating an adhesive for over 10 years. So, and I'm very aware of the downsides to that. Have you ever had a client unhappy because of miscommunication?

SPEAKER_01 17:39

I don't think that I would say that I've ever had somebody unhappy because I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

So you're such a great communicator too.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Um, after every appointment, I have them stand up and I say, Look in the mirror, tell me if there's anything you want me to change, you will not hurt my feelings. What do you want to change? And most of the time they'll say nothing or they'll give me a couple things that they want to change and I'll change it really quick. But if they say nothing, I have had situations where I'll be like, Okay, you, especially first appointments, I'll tell them to live with their lashes for two weeks, come back and tell me how they feel. So I'll have people come back and be like, hey, can we go shorter? Can we go longer? Can we go more dramatic this time? So I wouldn't say that they're necessarily hap unhappy, but we also it's a it's a building thing. So like you have to kind of work with them. So like not unhappy, but yes, wanting things different. Okay. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, but I again that's why I invite conversation about it, you know, like you might like these for the first week and then not like them for the second week as your lashes grow out. There's always things that could change or factors that can change.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Okay, so if someone realizes they're making these mistakes, how do they fix them? Is it ever too late to improve your technique?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah, I feel like it's never too late to learn new skills. I think that every professional should go with ongoing education no matter what. Um, Jess and I talked about this on our pad on the society talk episode. And um, yeah, I mean, we have a great resource uh that we partner with. It's the ultimate lash course. It's a series of 13 online courses. It has A to Z, how to do a five-star appointment, not only the classic and volume technique with practice exercises, but how to price yourself appropriately from an apprentice to an expert to a master and lots of things like that. So we have resources that we partner with. We're also always looking for other trainers to partner with and sponsor um their trainings with our kids. But uh yeah, it's never too late to reach out to a mentor or get some get some help. If you're obviously struggling with something like retention or isolation or placement or anything, um then fix your issue.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

When do you know when you should just give up and start over?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

In life? Like take it out? No, okay, no. Um, I mean, if you're talking about a set, then I mean I feel like there's never a time to give up and start over, but I do feel like no matter what, whenever I'm doing lashes, um, sometimes one didn't adhere the way I wanted it to, so I take that one off. You know, I like redo as I go. Um, if your results are horrible, then maybe it's time for a new method or technique.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah, but I think it's really dramatic to just like stop doing your lash set and just take it off and try again. Yeah, I don't think that's actually a thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Even after 17 years, I still have to remember to go through my client's lashes at the end because I get overconfident and I don't check at the end, and then of course I'll have a sticky or two whether that bothers my client or me when they come back. So I've noticed that on myself. Um, being a little more conscious about that lately. Um, current challenges and areas for growth. I feel like I need to step out of my comfort zone. And I use I'm such a CC girl. No, I'm sorry, I use Cs on most of my clients. I think that you should bring back the 0.25s.

unknown 21:06

Shut up.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Do you have any of these Ashton admits?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Well, no, because I'm perfect. Yes, okay. Okay, guys, I have a confession to make. I have been doing lashes for going on four years, and this is proof that this is authentic. I did somebody's lashes last week. Her fill is supposed to be next week. She texted me, all of her lashes came out.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

We're troubleshooting that in about eight minutes.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I did everything that I always normally would do. I can't think of anything different. But if that happens to you, don't let it discourage you because I've been doing lashes for four years now, and this is the first time anything like this has ever happened.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

And she, in all fairness, it was so sweet. She kept asking me all the ways that she might have made this mistake. You, she, I keep saying she, Ashton. Yeah. But it's often the client's fault. And it's so funny because I'm actually the queen of taking responsibility. And I actually was thinking about this earlier in another scenario. It's always my fault when something goes wrong. My belief is if you are confident in your skill, and there are steps that we take in our method, including the water scrub method, which is something we're gonna talk about in a future episode. Um, when you can feel confident that your bonds are good, then you can also feel confident that it wasn't your fault when the retention isn't good. That's why I say, I know it wasn't me. So let's start going down the line of what that client might have experienced. Did you cry a lot over the weekend? Did you it did you add a new product?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

In the situation, it's important to have send you their skincare to see what kind of ingredients could be counteracting. Did they put makeup on their eyes? Did they curl their lashes? Did they put clusters on? Did they put mascara on?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, it's it's um, and a client will often say, Oh, I didn't put anything on my lashes. But something I also point out is that our skin on our face is kind of like tissue paper. So even if you end your serums like this far away from your lashes, the product actually seeps as time goes on, especially when you're sleeping, you're pushing it. I mean, there's so many things. Washing your hair and rinsing the shampoo through the front of your face could interfere with your bonds, depending on what's in your shampoo. And so there are so many factors that really can happen after the client leaves. But I will say one of the number one helpers to that is making sure they have a clarity cleanser. And if they are using a ton of products, wear a lot of makeup, very active, they should wash their lashes twice a day, not once. And that was a game changer for me, too, with some clients. I had them washing their lashes more often, and their retention improved. So I think that is going to have to be where we end today because we have things to do, and that was fun. That was fun, just comfy chat. So thanks for being here. Do you want to close it out?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Like and subscribe, comment, do all the things, click all the buttons, follow us on Instagram, Lash Exec, Daniel Caesar. What?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Daniel Racer Caesar. Um let us know if you have had any of these fails, if any of these tips have helped you. If you want us to dive deep onto something else, let us know in the comments.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Follow LashX Ash. I was not done plugging our socials.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

We'll line the socials up. And we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Bye.