Benefits of Tourism - Mornings on MainStreet

Special guest Cisco Guevara discusses his involvement in tourism and some of the less tangible benefits experienced through tourism in our community.

Mornings on MainStreet airs every third Thursday of the month on KNCE 93.5 True Taos Radio. This episode originally aired on June 18th, 2026.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

School will be out soon. That means downtown Taos, and all of Taos County for that matter, is gonna be bustling with visitors from all over the world. Which leads us to a few important questions. Is Taos still a tourist town? What type of tourist, like visitor, guest, passerby, vacationer, seeker, adventurer, comes to a place like Taos? Is Taos a true destination? Stay tuned and we'll take a deep dive into the benefits of tourism. It's time once again for mornings on Main Street.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Really, the overall goal of the show is to help build the movement to really revitalize our downtown. Main Street Radio here on True Taos Radio. So the Main Street program was developed to start to address and really uh revitalize these historic downtowns and historic neighborhoods throughout the country.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

It is important to show folks that the historic downtown House District is very possible and people enjoy the amenities that exist.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

My name is Charles Whitson. I'm the executive director of Taos Main Street, and you are listening to Mornings on Main Street on 93.5 KNCE and on the digital realm at TrueTausRadio.com. We're here coming to you with our once-a-month show every third Thursday to talk about news, updates, people, projects, stories, culture, everything that really makes our downtown a vibrant and inclusive place. So last uh last month we discussed, we had Miss Amber from uh Twirlon, where we discussed the importance of families in downtown Taos. Um, we believe that's a critical area that's really important for our community and for our visitors to continue to serve. Um and and just a reminder to all the listeners, you know, Main Street kind of has a strategic focus in how we actually do our work. So, first, we want to position our downtown as a vibrant, inclusive civic space. Second, we want to ensure that our the economy is diverse, dynamic, and creative. And third, we want to we want to uh really focus on responsible tourism in a community-focused district. And that's really gonna be part of our uh part, the focus of our show today. Um, part of part of that responsible tourism aspect of our strategy really leads us to destination stewardship and the work that Taos Main Street has done to help develop the destination stewardship plan and then really advance the goals of those plans. Um with me today, where we're really excited to have this conversation um about uh benefits and tour about benefits and costs of tourism. So we really believe that those are those are two sort of sides of the coin to tourism. And we really believe that's it's important for our community to generally grow its understanding of both the benefits and the costs that come with tourism. So we could really think of no better guest to join us to really hone in on some of the benefits of tourism today. With me in the studio, uh, we have longtime uh local influencer, probably an influencer before influencers were even a thing, uh, a great storyteller. He is the owner, the operator of Los Rios River Runners. Um, he is also currently the president of the Lodgers Tax Chairman, yes, chairman of the town of Taos' Lodgers Tax Advisory Board and also president of Amigos Bravos. Correct. Um I'm sure I missed a few things, but anyway, he needs he doesn't need uh a really long introduction, but we'll give him one anyway in the studio today. Cisco Guevara. Cisco, welcome to Mornings on Main Street.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Thank you. Good morning, and thanks for the invite invitation to be here.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Excellent. So we're really excited to to dive into this conversation today, but we really like to start with all of our guests with a question. So, Cisco, um, what is what is one of your favorite favorite memories or stories about Taos Plaza?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Taos Plaza, well, it's a little known fact that the very first rafting company in New Mexico uh was started and had a a store on Taos Plaza. It's uh one door to the east of uh Nola's Coffee thereby um La Fonda called Taos Mountain Outfitters back in the day. And uh I remember opening the shop at eight o'clock in the morning each day, and back then the plaza was uh kind of a little forest. There was a lot of bushes and trees, and the uh native guys from the Pueblo wrapped in their uh iconic JC Penny blankets would spend the night under these bushes and then they'd crawl out in the morning and come uh asking for some spare change or some coffee or to use the restroom or whatever. And we made friends with uh a lot of those guys, and it was just a regular thing to see them waking up, rolling out from under the bushes, and uh that was that was a lot of fun. I'd talk about an iconic cultural connection, it was really cool. But then they remodeled the plaza and got rid of all the shrubbery and bushes and a lot of the trees, and that kind of ended that that era.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Excellent. Those are always fun stories, and I'm always amazed to hear just kind of like people's people's connections and really what they remember about about the plaza itself. So again, today we we really want to hone in on uh the benefits of tourism, and we want to try and and draw out some context here. Um we want to talk about maybe some of the things that that perhaps are less understood as benefits um for tourism. Now, I think you know, broadly everybody understands tourists come to Taos, they spend money, that's good for us and our economy. But I think there's some other things that's really important to kind of touch on when we try and have a nuanced conversation around tourism. So again, you know, the goal here is we're not we're not really here to to just say yay, yay, tourism, but we want to start helping the community build a more informed perspective of of its impacts, both both cost and benefit side. So um Cisco, you you've really seen tourism for the ins from the inside out for decades at this point, right? And maybe you can talk to us about just how far your that goes back, and then maybe tell us a little bit about sort of the perspective that you want you were trying to bring to this conversation about the benefits of tourism.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yes, my involvement in tourism goes back about 55 years. So I've seen all different aspects, good and bad, ups and downs. Tourism is a major economic impact around the world. It drives more dollars than pretty much anything else. And it also has the aura and energy of people are looking to have fun. They're looking to learn to experience, they're looking to change their everyday humdrum routine and to find something exciting that they'll bond with the other members of their family, their friends, whoever they're traveling with. Tourism is super important, not just economically, but also culturally, and just the whole vibe of the human experience is lifted to a better place if tourism is done right.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Yeah, uh, could uh absolutely agree. Um, so we've heard we've heard some things over over the years, you know, um about Taos. And and again, I think you have this really unique perspective considering the amount of time and the depth that you've spent interacting with with travelers and people that come visit us here, but also being, you know, at uh what what is it that you say you arrived in Taos when? I came to Taos on the day I was born. Exactly. So so I that that's a really valuable perspective, I think, in this conversation. And so over the years, like we've heard Taos kind of defined several ways. And I'm gonna throw a few things at you, and I want you to just kind of generally react to say, are are we this or are we that? Or does any of that even matter? So we've heard, you know, Taos is Taos is a mountain town, it's a high desert town, it's it's an art mecca, um, it's a paranormal, paranormal or natural phenomenon outpost. Um, it's a historic one of the most historically significant communities in the United States. Um, it's an adventure town, it's a geological wonder. Um, it's a great place for sports and outdoor recreation, it's a winter or summer haven. So, you know, in again, in your experience, do you feel that Taos is those things? Is it all of those things? Is it none of those things? How how do you how do you define it?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Well, I think all those things are true. I think that Taos has a very unique place that includes the recreation, the culture, the geology. Remember when I uh first started hanging out here when I was a kid, we would hear how there's a uh an energy field, there's a focus, there's a vortex that there's only seven in the world, and Taos is one of them, and all that kind of stuff. And when you look at the geology, it's totally believable. You got this big giant crack and the biggest mountains in New Mexico opposed to each other, um, kind of yin and yang like. So it's really easy to believe, yeah, this is a very special place physically, culturally, spiritually, uh, and beyond.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Very good. So Taos, Taos is many things, and I think the reality is is it it it it kind of represents something a little different to everyone, but it is certainly a place that is many things to to many people. Um on that note, you know, we uh we we definitely have some some major some major draws, some major events that that go on in Taos. And, you know, I I think it's kind of interesting to note in this conversation that, you know, these events do inherently attract visitors, of course. But I would also put you know, put up for consideration that like these events are also critically important to the people that live here. So I think I think you can you can kind of do both. So just just some examples, and Cisco, please throw out some some additional examples, but just the list I have in front of me again, large events that really serve visitors coming to Taos, but also are really important staples of our community. We have the powwow, we have the fiestas de Taos, we've got the Big Barn Dance, we've got the Rodeo de Taos, we've got uh the biker rally in Red River, we've got San Geronimo Feast Day at Taos Pueblo, we've got the Christmas Eve bonfires at the Pueblo, we have a hot air balloon rally and and and many others. Do you have any others that that you you see as again kind of that dual purpose? They serve visitors really well, but they're also critically important for our community.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Well, I think you've covered all the major ones. Uh one that comes to mind is the uh annual Mother's Day race on the rafting race that happens down by Pilar. Uh 68th year coming up on this Mother's Day. It's the second oldest race on uh west of the Mississippi, and it's been low-key for many, many years because it's run by a private club, and they don't have the wherewithal or desire to push it at all. But again, back in the day, there was hundreds and hundreds of people that would participate. You drive down the highway south of Pilar and you couldn't find a parking place because both sides of the highway were lined with cars to watch these really exciting races. Now, you know, we're lucky if we get um you know a few dozen people to participate. So you're right, all those things are important and they all have different uh demographics. And part of the thing that we need to do is figure out if we're gonna try and steer tourism, how do we steer it to which demographic are we gonna appeal to? The whole thing with the uh the biker shootings and the violence and all that that uh that event is famous for. You know, do we want to capitalize on that and bring more of that to our county? Or there's things like um the Hahneman Temple just had their annual gathering, whatever that's about, and it brings a lot of people. And is that the kind of thing we want to attract here and try and do something about to attract?

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Right. What about are there any are there any, you know, events that used to happen that no longer happen that we think you know would be really interesting to consider uh bringing back?

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Well, I thought about that and most things uh still exist. Some are struggling, some need help. You know, the the balloon fiesta here in Taos, it kind of comes and goes and has different levels of energy. That Mother's Day race, that could definitely be a much, much bigger thing. I think the thing that I miss the most is not so much of an an event, but uh uh energy and a culture that was very strong here in Taos and actually brought a lot of people, the hippies. People would come to see hippies. And you can still do that, although they're sometimes called uh macer rats, but um there was a counter-culture thing that Taos was famous for, all the communes. They were there's 12 strong communes throughout the Taos Valley. That's uh part of the art culture, uh the native culture, the outdoor adventure culture all kind of blended into one. I think it's an interesting energy that Taos is famous for. And maybe there's a way to enhance that and steer it towards a positive effect on the community.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

So you considering uh your your position on on the Lodgers Tax Advisory Board, um, we know that, you know, obviously you guys there look at look at numbers and and impact from time to time. And and I I understand that, you know, sometimes uh you know, to referring to the financial impact of these events, you know, that can be it can be tricky to develop that data. So have you seen anything in your position there that really is is a good formula for us to refer to about sort of some of those financial impacts of those events and and the people that come in um as a result?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Well, I think that the data already exists out there.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Um and I'm troubled by when they come to us with these plans, hey, let's spend, you know, thirty, forty thousand dollars to have this study done of the impact, the financial impact that our event does. It's like, ouch, that's a lot of money, and we know that it's a good thing. Just how much detail do you really need and and how is that valuable to us? I still question that. Um I might be in the minority in the effort to uh figure out how to spend and where to spend those monies. I'm saying that all that information is already being uh gathered in uh the gross receipts reports and uh some other stuff that the town does with uh DataFy and things like that. What we're missing is somebody uh internal that can interpret that. So we have to go outside and hire an outside firm to then interpret that for us. And then when you look at the way things are studied and looked at, uh statistics, they're going to bend it towards what they think you want to hear. And the way that the information is collected and interpreted isn't always accurate. And then when you finally get this report that cost you tens of thousands of dollars, that happened a couple of years ago. It takes them a long time to figure this out. And does that have any relevance to what's going to happen in the future? Yeah, it might, but then again, the more you look at things, the more they change. So I'm thinking that we should put less emphasis on getting the minute details of what happened in the past and just learn and skim the obvious stuff. You know, Barn Dance, great, great event. They spend a lot of money. They're here for days and they're respectful. That's the kind of tourists we want. But then at the same time, yeah, but what about the locals? You know, that's not exactly the music that the locals like. So then they made an effort to have free locals' day with the all Hispanic bands. That's awesome. You know, that's a really cool thing to do. Do you need a study in minute detail that costs tens of thousands of dollars to let you know that? Or should you take that tens of thousands of dollars and pay the bands what they deserve and get more of them?

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Great, some great points there on data and impact and some things that maybe should seem really obvious and aren't always quite obvious to us here. That's a perfect spot for us to take a short little station break here. Uh, stay tuned and join us when we come back for more mornings on Main Street. And we are back. Uh, if you're welcome back, everyone. If you're just joining us, this is Mornings on Main Street, right here on 93.5 KNCE and on the web at www.truosradio.com. Once again, I'm your host, Charles Whitson, and today we're talking about the benefits of tourism in Taos with Cisco Guevara. So Cisco, jumping in kind of right into our next uh segment, um, something here that I don't know that I've that I've heard much, but according to one of our the show's producers, Arsenio, over there, um, and the plaza, they used to call tourists swishers, which is the term based on the sound that their ski pants made as they walked around in the shops downtown. Is there is there an identifier or name uh that that you guys use for visiting, you know, rafters, kayakers, sort of the water and river enthusiasts that come to Taos?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Uh yeah, lily dippers. Uh the main thing is the guides are very much dependent on the ability of the guides to follow directions, act as a team, and actually pull their weight. And a lot of people don't. They just kind of lily dip, you know, they're just going through the motions and they're really not helping at all. The other term that uh we hear is, you know, was your group friends of Ben? You know, Ben Franklin on the $100 bill, that's always foremost on their minds because the they usually pool their tips. And so if you know somebody's getting a 20 and somebody's getting a hundred, they want to know about the hundred for sure. They want to know about Ben.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Yeah, that's good. That's fun. So Lily Dippers, swishers and lily dippers. Those are some some interesting terms we've got for some of our visitors. And, you know, those are those are um those are they're not derogatory. We're just we're just kind of having coming up with fun ways to kind of communicate um, you know, visitors and how they visit. So uh, you know, we want to kind of drill in a little bit here onto, you know, maybe some of the the lesser understood benefits of tourism. And I think you you touched on it sort of in in the intro section really well about just how people are coming and they're looking to have fun, and you know, they really kind of uh can can lift up the vibe of this place. I wanted to share just a brief story. I was in uh Chicago this past week for a conference, not really a super exciting conference in some ways, but one that was really good for for something that we're working on. So there were a bunch of people there from all across the country who were talking about business innovation and incubation. And it always does surprise me a little bit when I tell people where I'm from. I'm from Taos. I had two people at the conference be like, I love Taos. I was in both of them somehow, even though they didn't know each other, were in Taos for Christmas this year and attended. You know, the the bonfires on on Christmas Eve and said that it's w Taos is one of my favorite places. That was like one of my favorite things I've done at Christmas time. Um, and I I just kind of want to put the question to you, I guess, like this. Like, sometimes people come and they have those experiences and they leave with something I would say like really special. Um, I've heard that characterized as like, well, that's that's extractive in nature. And I'm just kind of wondering, like, when somebody comes and they have an experience like that that they talk about and they remember, uh, you know, is that is that one of the benefits that maybe we don't quite understand? Is that a way of Taos like sharing its culture with a much broader audience and like having them take take something away that maybe really impacts their life in a positive way?

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah, Taos definitely has a very unique aspect about it. There's the energy that's created by the geology, the culture, the spirituality, the history. And when people come and experience that and gather it and take it away, I don't consider it extractive. I consider it as propagating the goodness that we have to offer. There's plenty of bad stuff, negative stuff in the world. And if we have a chance to increase the good positive energy, you know, if that's our export, that's awesome. And if we can make a good living at it, that's even more awesome. So I don't look at it as extractive. People are coming here because they want an authentic experience, and Taos is more authentic than most places because of its unique uh culture, history, geology, and spirituality.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Do you do you think that is that is that something that is inherently protected? Do we need to do a better job at protecting those things? Um, I I often hear that that kind of enter into this conversation as well, is like we have all of these things, and so we want to make sure that that we protect these things for the future generations. So, in in your opinion, are those things already being protected? Could could we do a better job at protecting some of those things?

SPEAKER_01 24:38

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Um I think that a lot of the unique aspects of Taos are under threat just because of the way the world is. There's so many people. And finding a balance and finding a way to direct the energy that is coming at us is really important to take a look at. Hence my dedication to the Destination Stewardship Network. Um you know, it's like herding cats, but you can influence the outside influences that may change our community. Over my lifetime, I've seen, you know, tremendous changes to the Taos community, not all of them good. Um but we can't just sit back and say, oh well, whatever. We have to make an effort to try and influence to make sure we're heading in a positive way. Now, part of the thing about the Taos energy and what draws people here is that authentic, real atmosphere, experience that we offer. If we try to control that in a micromanaged way, it's not gonna happen. It's gonna destroy the thing that Taos is about. Taos is not about being micromanaged. It's about individual individuality, it's about culture, it's about history, it's about opportunity, the opportunity of the outdoors, the opportunity of connection. The thing that excites me the most about tourism is the networking that takes place. Um, not just me personally, but my guides meet people, make friends, start relationships, get job opportunities, education opportunities, travel opportunities. There was one guy who had really bad teeth, and uh people came and requested him for several years in a row, and the last time they came, they gave him enough money to fix his teeth. So there's all sorts of benefits out there.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Yeah, that's that that's really great. Um, and you know, that's that's that's interesting, you know, kind of an interesting point to segue into, you know, some of the ideas around destination stewardship are are, you know, kind of this this collective approach to, you know, I I don't necessarily want to just say managing tourism, because I think to your point, like there's certain things that we're not trying to overmanage in tourism. We're not trying to, you know, cultivate this uh experience for a visitor that's that's so structured that it's like day one, you're going to do this, day two, you're going to do this. But I think we are working on ways to really kind of how do we how do we better connect some of these economies, I for lack of a better word, that maybe aren't always connected. So, for example, like how do we do a better job of connecting the ski valley in the wintertime to the plaza? You know, how can we make sure that the people who are coming predominantly to take uh advantage of our world-class uh skiing are actually coming coming down into town and spending a night or two nights um in our town taking taking in everything has to offer? So um we know that there's work already happening in these areas of how you know businesses and different sectors trying to do a better job of maybe connecting to each other so that the visitor then can be better connected to to a variety of things. What are what are some of the things that you're seeing around sort of like this collective approach to tourism and how different groups, you know, whether they're for-profit, nonprofit, huge industries, small business, are trying to kind of connect together in a way to sort of offer our visitors um, you know, a much more broad variety of experience in TAUS.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

That was a complicated question.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah, I went on a little too far. Should I repeat the important part? Uh yeah. Get me back on track here. You got my brain going all different directions. What do you see? What are some of the interesting things you're seeing happening by taking kind of a collective approach to tourism and how we can con how we're trying to connect more experiences together for our visitors?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Yeah, I have seen a lot of different efforts to enhance tourism in New Mexico.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

The you know, trying to bring the skiers in the ski valley down to town to shop, that's been going on for since the beginning of the ski valley. You know, how do you solve that? They've tried everything and some work better than others. Um really the bottom line is if there's a lot of snow, then there's a lot of people, and a lot of people are gonna filter out and start shopping at the places that don't normally see skiers. So weather has a lot to do with what we're talking about. Same thing with rafting. If we got high water, it brings a lot of people. Well, that's not true anymore. We had high water a couple years ago, and it scared the people away. I have more people now uh calling to book because they heard the water's gonna be low and they like that better. So it's weird. You never can tell what's going on. The thing that I've noticed in all my years is that house has a special funkiness to it. It's funky, it's cool. And the thing that worries me is the funkiness is being eroded. We got you know new sidewalks and paved roads and new infrastructure. And I remember I was in uh Phoenix uh last year on some business, and I was crossing a busy street and I stood there and I looked down, and I was standing on this red mat with big bumps on it. And I realized we have those in Taos now. We're being gentrified. We're our corners look like any other street corner in across the USA because they're up to code and they're safe, and they got this stupid little beep, beep, beep that drives me nuts. Taos is losing its cool funkiness, and that scares me.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

So uh a follow-up question there. I mean, what are I mean, are are there ways, is this kind of an inevitable tide, or are there ways that we can retain some of that cool funkiness?

SPEAKER_00 31:42

That's a really good question, and that's a really big challenge. When I uh had my shop across from Michael's kitchen, the sidewalk in front of the store was really substandard. It was downright dangerous. And it's part of the funk and the cool and the unusual. Now it's this big, huge, wide thing you could drive a car down just about. And so the experience of walking down the street is safer, it's cleaner, it's no longer funky, and so your experience is not as memorable as when it was funky. So, how do you create a balance of cool funky and keeping the visitors safe and that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah, and I do think that's that's a question, and I, you know, obviously not one we're we're necessarily going to solve right here, right now on this show. But but I agree with that. And, you know, I've heard I've heard and said a variety of of of that type of thing over year over years. You know, there were some of the people at the same conference that I mentioned earlier that had never been to Taos, but had certainly been to Santa Fe. Oh, I love Santa Fe. And I was like, well, next time you really should come to Taos. I mean, Taos is the cooler, smaller, funkier, less gentrified version of Santa Fe. Um, and I think that that, you know, there is something to that. Now I'm not totally sure that I'm uh all for having an element of danger when I'm walking on a sidewalk. Um but I do I do kind of catch what you're throwing down too. Like I do think that like that is that is one of those pieces that makes Taos like truly, truly special, truly authentic. And like how can we, you know, fix our infrastructure when it's really needed to be fixed and maintain that element of of of like authenticity, of of funkiness, coolness. Um, I mean, certainly I've had friends from from from all over the state and even all over the country come to downtown Taos and immediately are struck that it's like this feels like an old place. Like it feels, it doesn't feel like it, it feels like it could be somewhere old, you know, in in Mexico, or even even in the old world in in Europe. Like it has this distinctive, almost old world feel to it. And again, I think that that's that's kind of that's a critical strength that we have that we need to really be able to lean into more.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Definitely that's the kind of value that we need to protect. That's the kind of value that people are coming here to experience, that the people that live here enjoy and benefit from, and that's what needs protection. I remember years ago, uh got connected got uh contacted by a very popular TV show out of uh France called Beautiful Adventures, and they wanted me to take them to all my favorite places in Taos and then a little gentle float trip on the river. So took them on a little gentle float trip, and then we started with my favorite places in Taos. And we're coming from the south, so I stopped at the uh the Rancho Church, the St. Francis de Assisi, and they were blown away. We spent two and a half hours there, and they said, Cisco, we've never seen anything like this before. I was like, Wait, what are you guys talking about? You're world travelers, you've been all over, you're sophisticated travelers. And then I realized, ah they've seen Adobe architecture, they've seen ancient buildings, way older than what we have, but they haven't seen the special funkiness. The drive-up liquor window next to the church, the abandoned, run-down car, the collapsed building, everywhere that I've been in Europe that has Adobe architecture, it's polished, it's clean, it's maintained. They don't have the funky, and they loved that. They spent two and a half hours filming down.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Amazing, amazing. That's that's really fascinating that even for you know, a world traveler, as you put it, can can come to Taos and be blown away by some of the things that we have here. Uh, that's a good, good point for another quick break. So stay tuned. Uh, join us back here shortly. You're listening to Mornings on Main Street. And we're back once again. If you're just joining us here, you are listening to Mornings on Main Street right here on 93.5 KNCE and on the web at www.truosradio.com. I'm your host, Charles Whitson, and today we're once again here talking with Cisco Guevara about the benefits of tourism. Uh, Cisco, you said something really, really cool in that last segment. And I did want to kind of piggyback on that um just a little bit. You know, when when somebody comes, you know, from somewhere else and has one of those experiences that kind of blows them away, whether that's, you know, our historic church, you know, and and the unique architecture or an experience on the river, on the mountain, whatever it may be, as a longtime local, does that does that give you a sense of pride when when it's like, hey, this is this this is my community, and people come here and experience it, these things, and take away something that's really special to them?

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Very much so. I hold a lot of pride in the fact that we have made a major impact on a lot of people's lives, groups, families. Uh, when we do the raft trips, one of the most common things I hear after we get to the end of the trip and they're so excited and exhilarated, one of the first things they say is, Oh, I gotta bring my dad here. And when the families do come, it's really beautiful to see the bonding of how the kids respect the parents for their leadership and their ability to take them on this wonderful adventure. So it's a commodity that Taos has on a lot of different levels, not just the rafting, not just the outdoor, but the the culture, the history, the vibe, the energy of Taos has the ability to affect people profoundly. On the rafts, we have a saying we're we're making the world a better place one raft at a time. Great.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

And do you do you think you know, this may be a hard question to answer, but do you think that, you know, we we you and I can answer that for ourselves. Do you think that that there are other people in the community that that do get that sense of pride from the same things that we're just talking about? Do you think that that's maybe a unique perspective, or do you feel that's shared a little more broadly?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

I think it's shared pretty broadly, actually. Um it kind of depends on what demographic you're looking at and talking to. But it pretty much everybody has a pride of belonging to Taos, of being from Taos, of living in Taos. I mean, that's the reason a lot of people move here is like because you know, I can say I'm a Taos local. It's like you've been here two months, you know. Slow down a little bit. Um again, it goes back to that special energy that is present here in Taos because of all the unique features the geology, the history, the culture, the spirituality. It creates an energy that envelops everything. And that's why visitors, when they come here, they can experience that. Not all of them do. Some of them are close to that kind of stuff. And that's okay. At least they had a chance. And that's the job of the stewarding of tourism is how do we attract people that will appreciate our energy, our unique funkiness, and how can we help them experience it and become part of their energy and go out into the world and make the world a better place?

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Awesome. So again, sort of sort of piggybacking on that, we we've heard, we've heard and discussed a little bit about, you know, kind of the the impact that Taos has. And and I I think that that to me is a clear benefit that Taos has such a profound impact on people that come and visit us here. Um, I'm wondering kind of the reverse side of that for you, Cisco. Like what are some of the things that you feel like you've really personally gained by interacting with visitors over the years? Other than just money.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Well, the money, you know, it it ebbs and flows. Um my personal gain is the connections I've made with other human beings. Um the friendships, the uh visiting opportunities, just the learning opportunities are tremendously powerful in many. I look at my life and the people I know, and it's all connected to tourism. I meet so many wonderful people and get so many opportunities, not just for me, but for the people that work for me. And I would like to see that somehow enhanced. I remember uh last year I took a group on our native cultures feast and float, and they were very generous with their tips. And then they came to me afterwards and they said, Cisco, you know, we love this area so much. It's very, very unique and special. We want to help out. Can you give me two names of nonprofit organizations that I can donate to? And she donated $5,000 to two nonprofits that I mentioned. That's the kind of visitors we want. That's the opportunity that tourism affords us to meet good people that are capable of helping our community, that are capable of going out into the world and spreading that good positive energy that we want.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Yeah, that's that's uh that's that's really cool. So um what would you say to the to the Tao Senho that says, um, well, I've never, you know, I I don't bother meeting meeting any of the tourists, tourism or travelers that come here. Like they've got no impact on me or my life, you know, and I don't care, I don't care to meet any of them. Like what what what would you say to to that Tao Senho?

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Well, I would uh remind them that they're missing some really great opportunities to enhance their own life, and that tourism is such an important part of the economic base of Taos and always has been since before Europeans got here, that whatever you're doing, tourism dollars spent here affect you. It improved your roads, it uh supported the police and fire protection, it improved the schools, and it helps the hospital, just on and on and on. Nobody in Taos is not touched by tourism. And that's a fact. And I think that's one of the things that we as leaders can do a much, much better job at is educating the general population just how much value the tourist dollar has in our daily lives. You know, if you've got a a decent road to drive down, a decent hospital go to, a reliable fire protection program, reliable schools, a lot of that is because tourists came here and spent money.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yeah, I think that's a really, really critical point to make. And, you know, I I still I still don't think it's to your point, it's as well understood as as it should be about like how how those dollars branch out and really support our communities in different ways. And you know, we're really starting to see some cool things too as a result of these destination stewardship efforts of coming up with like new new ways that tourism dollars are supporting communities. So, you know, we have like the cultural events fund, which we want to see continue and grow and ensure that like some of those, you know, dollars, those hard, tangible dollars that come directly from tourism are actually going towards supporting, you know, cultural events and some of those culture bearers in our communities that that do those things. Um something else that that that's recently come up as well is the seed program, the sustainable experience and entrepreneur development program. And again, that's kind of taking look, taking a look at maybe some not as traditional experiences that people may be able to have in TAOS and really programmatically crafting out ways that we can support, you know, some visionaries to say, like, hey, can you can you build a business that that actually is going to give people some level of experience that they may not be able to access as easily? So I'm really excited to talk to see, you know, at least some some level of thinking to be like, how can we enhance this idea that like these experiences can be really good, they can have a real impact on people uh here. Um, they can they can kind of uh foster a sense of community pride. Um, and we can really, you know, have this outsized impact. And I really think Taos has an outsiz impact. You know, when I when I go to Chicago and meet two random people who are like, I've been to Taos, I love it there, I've done some of my favorite things ever there. I mean, there are not many places that are are the size of Taos that have the level of impact in the world. I mean, I I truly believe that. And I I feel like I do feel a sense of pride from that as well. Like, I think that's something that we should be proud of as Taos Annuals.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

You bet that's very true, and that's a good point. We're a tiny little town and we have a major, major impact. And that's been the way Taos is since the beginning of time, really. I'm super happy about the efforts of the uh destination stewardship plan and the network. The little mini grants they're giving out to try and stimulate types of tourism that benefit more of the community, not just the traditional businesses that kind of have a lockdown on the tourist dollar. I think it's a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for a lot more of the community to get involved and benefit, not just financially, but just the experience, the education, the friendships that come from this. I think that more money should go into that instead of just traditional advertising and you know, paying twenty thousand dollars for the back cover of a magazine kind of thing. Spread that money around the community, get these ideas that are baking in the back of people's minds. They just don't have the time, they don't have the money, they don't have the support. Put that out there because there's a lot of really cool, unique ideas that people have. If they just had some help, that energy would build and just the word of mouth. Most of my business in the rafting company comes from word of mouth. They come with us, they have a great time, they tell all their neighbors. And it doesn't matter how much money I spend on advertising if I don't have the good word of mouth. And so the good word of mouth for Taos already exists, and it can be enhanced and guided in such a way that we're bringing the type of visitors here that are spending the kind of money that benefits more of the community, not just the established tourism businesses, but it starts reaching to people like you mentioned before, who don't think they have a connection, don't think they benefit. And that's the really exciting thing about the destination stewardship plan and network. I hope we can continue and get more funding for those little microgrants like you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

Awesome. So, two-part question here to sort of to sort of end on for the day. Um in in your own travels, uh, are there any places you've been to, you know, given everything that we've just talked about, you know, and and given Taos as as a destination, um, are there any places you feel that are doing tourism well in a very thoughtful way? And then the second part of that question, like if tourism is done well in that thoughtful way, you know, what what do you think it can really give back to to Taos just beyond revenue?

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Well, uh I've done some traveling in my time and I've been to a lot of different places. Um every place has its own unique style and way of doing things. Taos is so unique and has such a powerful energy and on its own. I don't know that we can borrow stuff from other communities and replicate it. Um, you know, I was in Santa Fe, uh went down to the uh BAMF film festival down there, and I was walking around the plaza and yeah, they got a lot of people and they got a lot of successful stuff, but I'm I'm walking behind uh these three ladies that are dressed in fur coats and wearing inappropriate footwear and just dripping with jewelry and you know not really connecting. They don't get the energy that New Mexico has. Is that the kind of visitor we want here? Not really. Um I forgot the rest of the question.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

No, it's okay. Uh really just like are there any places, and maybe it doesn't have to be like as a whole of of tourism, they're doing it real, but may maybe any places that you specifically think are worth mentioning to wear of like they have this one thing that they do really well.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Yeah, you know, the thing that comes to mind is uh Steamboat Springs. I've spent a bunch of time up there. I had uh one of my kids went to school up there, and uh there's no parking meters. Parking is free, and that tone of free parking sets an energy of wow, I'm welcome here. They're not trying to nickel and dime me to death. I feel like I should shop here and buy stuff because they're really nice. The the energy, the tone that's set when you don't have to pay for parking, it's super valuable.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Excellent. So again, to to wrap up, and I think we've already answered this, but maybe if you just just some final thoughts on like, hey, if we're if we are doing tourism well, like what do we what do we think it's giving back to um to our community?

SPEAKER_00 51:20

If we're doing tourism well, we're getting back opportunities for friendship, networking, employment, experiences that wouldn't be available to us if we didn't have tourism. And there's some beautiful, powerful, wonderful people that want to come here and want to interact and want to have that one-on-one, authentic, genuine experience with the Taos locals, and we need to foster that.

SPEAKER_03 51:53

Awesome, well said. So I think that's that's that about wraps up this episode of Mornings on Main Street. Uh, listeners, you've been you've been listening to uh a friend, friend of Main Street, friend of the show, Cisco Guevada, talk to us a bit about some of some of the less tangible benefits that that we experience through through tourism in our community. I want to remind everybody that this is part of a two-show series. So next, next month on Third Thursday, we are going to have a guest who is going to dig into some of the costs associated with tourism. And again, I think the purpose of of these conversations and these this type of show is that we have this really honest and open dialogue about you know both of those things. You know, the way that that we say it sort of in the destination stewardship space is like we're talking about, you know, the costs managing the costs and benefits of tourism honestly and together. Um, so Cisco, thank you so much for coming. Anything you want to tell the listeners, real quick, any anything coming up that that's important for you that that you want to make sure people are aware of?

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Go rafting because it's fun. There you have it. And you don't need to be a tourist to go rafting. Like this is something that's right here, right in our backyard, and it's absolutely fun. And every Taosenho should should experience rafting on the Rio themselves. Definitely. Uh, so once again, this has been Mornings on Main Street right here on 93.5 KNCE on the World Wide Web at www.trueos radio. Once again, I'm Charles Whitson uh with Taos Main Street. And join us again next month uh on the third Thursday for another episode of Mornings on Main Street. Take care, everybody, and we'll we'll talk to you soon.