Everything on Plaza's - Mornings on MainStreet

Charles and Arcenio talk with Howie about the history and function of the Plaza, both in Taos and in other places around the world.

Mornings on MainStreet airs every third Thursday of the month on KNCE 93.5 True Taos Radio. This episode originally aired on November 21st, 2025.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think we are in a day and age where we're seeing we're seeing a decay in in human connection. You know, maybe maybe the devices that we all carry around in our pockets and and all of the artificial intelligence and social media, I think, is is kind of pulling us away from each other. And a plaza can really help connect people. Really, the overall goal of the show is to help build the movement to really revitalize our downtown. Main Street Radio here on True Toast Radio. So the Main Street program was developed to start to address and really uh revitalize these historic downtowns and historic neighborhoods throughout the country.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

It is important to show folks that the historic downtown Toast District is very watchable and people enjoy the amenities that existed.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Joining me in studio from Taust Main Street, Charles and Arsenio. Good morning, guys. Good morning, Howie. Thanks for uh being here again, episode three, are we calling it, of Main Mornings on Main Street. That's correct. Excellent. So we talked about it last month, and uh we'll talk again about what our our goal is here with Mornings on Main Street. Um we're gonna do it once a month. We're likely gonna do it the third Tuesday of every month from nine until ten. I know today's Thursday. This is an exceptional month. But uh once a month, you'll be hearing from Charles and Arsenio and and guests. We had a couple of guests uh last time. We did this for episode number two, and um, I'm looking forward to what's in store uh for mornings on Main Street, Main Street Radio here on True Taos Radio. So like we did for episode two, Charles, I would love for an introduction to Taos Main Street and um what your role is, why we're doing this radio show, and uh, and then we'll get into uh today's topics.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Great. And and thank you once again for having us back on uh 93.5 K N C E True Taos Radio. We're thrilled about this partnership. We're excited about this show. Uh the first first episode really was just just kind of an intro, a reintroduction, an overview of Taos Main Street, how it works, how it's connected to you know a larger Main Street movement across the country. Um, in the second episode, we brought in, you know, Ilona Spruce and Jesse Hook, who really talked to us about tourism, destination stewardship. Um, that was a really great episode. I actually had a lot of feedback from folks that saw clips on social media from it that then went and saw watched the whole show and they found it quite fascinating. Um, really, the overall goal of the show is to um, you know, help help build the movement to really revitalize our downtown. Um, I think it's not it's not just about Taos Main Street as an organization. We want to highlight people, projects, events, activities, individuals, organizations, everybody who really is contributing to these larger goals and these bigger ideas of how how we actually revitalize um the heart of our town.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Yeah. You talked about a Main Street network, a larger effort nationally. Um how do you kind of describe in your elevator pitch what really Main Street, the organization, is about?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So yeah, again, part of part of a large network, uh Main Street America exists in in communities all across the country. Um New Mexico Main Street is a is the coordinating program here in our state. There's 32 programs currently in the state of New Mexico. Taos Main Street is one of those programs. Um each each Main Street program, while there are plenty of common threads, it does look different in each community because the needs, um, the physical makeup of of their downtowns are different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

What are some of the other communities that uh have have a Main Street affiliate?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Uh so in in our state, just just some of our neighbors that are close to us, um, Los Alamos, uh Raton, Mora, um, Gallup, Farmington, Grants, Out West, Tukum, Carrie.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

I mean, they're so like you said, totally different types of downtowns, types of main streets where we have the plaza, folks will have a main street, and uh yeah, everyone takes a different approach to how to revitalize or vitalize. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, that's correct. And and you know, we we really break our our work, strategy is important for us. And so we really spent a lot of time refining and refining and refining our our strategic approach to our work. So we kind of have, you know, a four, a four-pillared approach, you know, and I'm not gonna do a deep dive on that. We talked a little bit about that in the pilot, but you know, first off is is really vibrant and inclusive civic space. It's ensuring that that our downtown is welcoming, it's inclusive. Um, it's a space where everybody feels comfortable and it's a place where people want to spend time. Uh our second strategy is is about a dynamic creative economy. Um, I think there's a lot of that is that that already exists in our downtown, but we really want to lean into that more. There's a lot of there's a lot of trends happening happening nationally and even within the state. Their creation of the the the creative industries division at the state. They're really looking at at ways to uh inject more investment into the creative economy statewide. So we're really trying to bolster, bolster the creative um and dynamic uh uh component to our economy in the downtown area. Third is really about about destination stewardship. It is about you know responsible tourism in a community-centered district. So we want to make sure that tourism is really is is an active contributor to the vitality of our downtown. You know, it's not necessarily just a stop for tourists to kind of shop and and take some photos, but that you know, the resources that come into our community through tourism should should continually continuously be reinvested into our downtown and ensure that there's a good reciprocal relationship between tourism and locals and investment in our downtown.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

And the fourth strategy is really just about it, you know, the the jingo term, jingoistic term in the nonprofit world is capacity building. We see it as a little bit bigger than that. We we see it as movement building. It's a movement across the country to do this work. However, the stuff that we're talking about, I think requires a movement even within our community. So it requires more than just Main Street as an organization. It requires government partners, it requires businesses, it requires community members and other organizations who are really, you know, contributing to this big idea, this big action, this big movement of revitalizing downtown.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

No small undertaking by any stretch in any community here in Taos. We all know it, what it takes to uh kind of thrive. It's it's it's kind of a rugged, rugged uh environment, uh figuratively and literally here in northern New Mexico. And it takes a certain amount of uh willpower and uh perseverance to kind of keep a community strong. And uh I I grew up in the suburbs of New Jersey where uh the community was kind of already there. You know, they're such an infrastructure and it's just kind of easy to do things. Um moving out here now, all these years later, I still realize what it takes to just kind of keep a community together. And because I live in the downtown area, um I'm sensitive to uh the work Main Street is doing and and a lot of the other folks who are involved to just keep downtown thriving or or just moving along, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, it really does take take a community-wide effort. And if it was if it was easy, you know, every every little town in in all all across the state and all across America would have a thriving, booming downtown. Right. That's obviously not the case, so that's why we're here to do that work.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Morning's on Main Street underway, episode number three. Charles is in studio from Taos Main Street. Arsenio is here too. We haven't said hello yet. Hey Arsenio.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

Good morning, Howie.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Um so since episode two was about five or six weeks ago, um, what's been going on? Have you uh completed any project or you know, undertaken any any work, gotten the word out about stuff in town since we last spoke?

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Sure, sure. Uh you know, one thing that I just that I always want to highlight is, you know, if you if you really want to stay plugged into what's what's going on with Main Street as an organization, but maybe maybe even more importantly, like what's going on downtown on a on a weekly and monthly basis. Um, check out our website. That's tausmainstreet.com. Uh sign up for our newsletter. You can find us on social media, both Facebook and Instagram at Taos Main Street. Um, we we really have developed a great partnership with with the Bent House Creative Team. Um, and they they do an amazing job at helping us keep our ear to the ground. So the newsletter and and social media is is constantly uh updated with information. Um and I think I think a lot of people tend not to quite realize how much stuff actually happens in our downtown on a daily and weekly basis. So again, to to stay tuned in and plugged into everything that's going on down there, you know, use use those resources. Check the website, check the social media, check the newsletter.

SPEAKER_04 9:33

Great to hear that you're working with Bent House. Um, because not only do they do great work and have their ear to the ground, but they're right in the heart of town on Bent Street, and uh they can speak to it as well as anyone what down what's happening in the downtown area, you know, the historic district. Um we look at the live Tows calendar here uh on KNCE every day and every hour throughout the day, and it just blows me away how much is going on, especially a weekend like this where there's so much activity around Halloween and all the events. And um you're right. There's there's plenty going on in downtown, and again, because I live there, I get to see it. And um it's it's one of the reasons I stay down there. Really is more excuse me, more vibrant, I think, than people realize, you know. And uh I'm so glad that there's people paying attention to this and putting some effort into it. Um what else has been going on downtown? I I do look at the newsletter, I don't read the entire thing, I have to confess, but I do skim it and I'm always blown away at how much uh work is happening. Um one thing I I noted was the Meet Me at McCarthy's Monday night uh strolls that you were doing, and it looks like some pretty good turnout. I I kind of had got involved in one of them and uh lots of folks uh showed up for that.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Uh oh, absolutely. Um and and Arsenio, why don't you why don't you just step in and and give us this is really part of Arsenio's uh parsenio and aurora's brainchild, and we were we were thrilled at the at the at the turnout, the results, and like let's let's let's let him tell us about a bit about that.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Yeah, and and don't hesitate to let folks know what it was all about, how it even got started.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Sure. Um yeah, thanks. Um yeah, meet me McCarthy's. We uh we finished our inaugural year. Um 21 Mondays we gathered on the plaza to uh you know to to to walk, jog, run, or do nothing. And that's that was by design. We didn't want to twist anybody's arm about doing a fitness program. They we more than anything wanted them to come and show up and just make that space uh vibrant. We keep saying the words.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

I know, yeah, but vibrancy is essential, you know, if you want to feel good about your life.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Exactly. And uh um throughout throughout the course of the summer, we had a lot of people show up. A very, very diverse uh group of people showed up, uh young ones, really young ones, two-year-olds, all the way up to 80 something, you know, and uh and then from all corners of Taos County.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

So uh it was really nice. And you mentioned the the walking or running. I know you had put together some uh suggested routes around the downtown area that folks could do a smaller loop, medium-sized loop, or a bigger loop if they wanted to walk or run. And um you also mentioned fitness, and I I know that that wasn't ultimately the goal as much as it was to uh just kind of experience downtown, right? A lot of people don't see it on foot.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

Exactly. But uh, you know, if you take a drive through downtown, you see tourists really enjoying the new boulevard style uh sidewalks we got now and the crosswalks, and and uh I I I really was uh trying to highlight that as well and and and trying to show everybody that we got some really nice stuff now, especially on that main drag. But uh um things are starting to perk up as well on the plaza, and we want to really highlight those through the yeah, yeah, in the coming.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

I know we have to uh talk a little bit about the the plaza and the gazebo. I saw um crew going gangbusters there getting it ready for uh Halloween, which is tomorrow. And uh I know Main Street had their hands in that.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yeah, that's correct. And we're we're we're really excited to see to see that that project moving forward. Uh part of our role was for one, uh securing securing some large capital outlay investments. So we secured uh a million dollars for public infrastructure improvements on the plaza. Um the town, the town uh developed the original plan and took and took on the first phase, which was really fixing some key underlying infrastructure, which which happened you know a a season ago in in our downtown. Um and then the county pick picked up the next step, and so they're really making some improvements to the the above-ground public infrastructure. And and the gazebo was first on that list. Um, you know, there was the gazebo had hadn't really had much love in a long time. There was some there was some leaks in the roof. We know that the leaks had kind of led to some damage from when there was live music and rain at the same time happening on the plaza. Um, so so the the county uh took took on really really making some some improvements to the gazebo and the surrounding area. Um they've they've been absolutely flying on that on that project, actually, in the past what six six weeks or so.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

And our our role is essentially after securing the money, you know, we we we gotta keep tabs. Uh we have to, for reporting purposes, um, we we kind of need to know like what the state of the project is so we can report back to the state. Um and if there are any change orders, things like that. And also it's to keep the community uh uh informed and updated. Um, I think that that that that's an important piece, you know, even if if there's nothing visibly that seems to be changing over the course of a week or two, a lot of times there is, and just the simple act of communicating directly with the community, making sure that they they see what's happening, they hear about things moving, they hear about all the things that are being done is is critical. So you can again on our website, we have a press room that has all of the write-ups that Arsenio puts together after the bi-weekly construction meeting. So, you know, check check out check out all those details there to see to see everything that's really going on with the gazebo.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Well, I love those two examples of some of the work Main Street's doing the gazebo and securing all that funding to make it make the renovations happen. And then uh meet me at McCarthy's, right? Two very different uh ways to affect uh a a community. Um before we uh jump into a break here. I know we're gonna we're gonna dig in and talk a little bit about what the Taus Plaza and just in general a gathering space like Tows Plaza means to folks. Um but I've noticed after the construction, especially those uh the electric boxes, the dunk the utility boxes on the street corners, which I feel like over the last several years I've seen some art decorating. And uh Jackie, I think, was involved with that program. And then I think I saw some new artwork on some of these electric boxes around downtown as I make my weekend stroll. Um that was a Main Street uh initiative.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah, yeah. And that was actually uh a really, a really fun project. And that was the second, the second iteration of that of that project. And as you mentioned, Jackie, uh Jackie Cl Colenshaw, Colbanschlag. Sorry, Jackie, if you're listening, um, she she came to me originally with the idea. Um, and I think that's one way that Main Street can really uh can really help is when when people motivated people like Jackie come along and they say, I have this great idea, I know how to do it, you know, can you help? And you know, we we we try and make sure the answer is yes, as often as it can be. And so we really provided some some organizational backing to that type of project, helped, help seek some additional funding, help pull a lot of threads together with the planning. Um, and then Jackie was able to just run with it. So this year we had all student artists. Um, I think we had almost 60 submissions. We had to narrow that down to 18. There are 18 traffic signal boxes in all of Taos County. So we we tried to cover each each one of them with a piece of student art. Um each each uh each student artist received a stipend. We actually had a reception for them um at the Revolt Gallery once it was all done. Um so it was just really cool to see you know uh public artwork, these young aspiring artists to kind of like get their artwork out there in a publicly visible space and and be able to be get paid for it, be proud of it. Like those those are just kind of like great, feel-good projects. Yeah. Although they are a lot more complicated than you would think. It takes a lot more time, effort, funding to actually pull something like that off than I think one would realize.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

Sure. And I I'm not surprised to hear that. Um a a third example, another great example of of the work that Main Street's doing, right? So we talked about um a significant renovation to the gazebo in the plaza, um, getting people engaged and walking around downtown, getting student uh children artists involved, and just kind of beautifying um street corners. All of the very simple things, maybe not that simple, like you said, it takes a lot of work to do it, but um it's it's projects like that that make me realize how important and vital Taus Main Street is and and just the community involvement to do this kind of stuff. Um it is 22 minutes past nine o'clock. We have to take a quick break here, and then when we come back, um I want to have a little conversation about nine o'clock downtown 30th. I have some thoughts. Mornings on Main Street. What you guys Taos Main Street radio underway what Charlton Arsenio are in studio. My name's Howie sticking around until 10 o'clock today. Um welcome back, guys.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah, thanks for having us again.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Yeah, so um, we talked about all that great stuff that Main Street's been doing since our last episode of Mornings with Main Street. Did I have my preposition wrong? Are we calling it Mornings with Main Street? Mornings on Main Street. On Main Street. Mornings on Main Street. Okay, good. Um Mornings on Main Street on the radio. So we had the a conversation uh yesterday or a couple days ago, we kind of got together to talk about this this uh radio program, and the conversation turned to uh Taus Plaza, right? Which is the we've been talking about all the work and it's the center of town, and it obviously has some historical significance here in this town. And and I imagine for all the main street communities around New Mexico and all of the towns, really, even the neighborhoods here in northern New Mexico kind of have a central gathering place, right? And it's I guess arguably how how these little communities and towns even formed, right? They just were a common space. So um, Arsenio, you grew up here in Taos?

SPEAKER_03 19:43

I I did, yes.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

So uh in Taos proper, or did you grow up near I grew up all over the place, man?

SPEAKER_03 19:49

My parents used to drop me off with with whoever would be willing to take us, you know. But yeah, no, um mostly Arroyo Hondo was uh was where I I spent some of my younger years. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

Yeah, another example. I I I lived in Hondo for a little while, and and they have even a little plaza area, right? They used to do, I don't know if they still do their fiestas. They used to have like a little gathering every summer right there at the bend in the heart of Hondo.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Yeah, actually, that was my dad that used to put on the Arroyo Hondo Fiesta. So uh that that was uh my sole inheritance from him was supposed to be to carry on that uh that tradition, but uh uh unfortunately it has kind of faded.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Yeah, but there's always always hope to get it back. I know your focus now is on Taos Plaza.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

That is correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

Um we were speaking with the folks at Bent House the other day too, just about um kind of understanding understanding the the history of uh the plaza. I know here in in the southwest and New Mexico especially, there's um multiple cultures that kind of dictated how these uh hubs uh originated. Charles, do you have any thoughts on on like um the significance of the history and and if it's still relevant today uh the reasons why these plazas kind of be came to be?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Sure. And I by no means uh am an expert in this. Let me let me just preface everything I'm about to say. Um I think I think originally they were they were born out of out of out of a form of necessity. Um they were born as uh you know uh for for protection, you know, easily defensible spaces um where where walls and gates could be erected and you know people who lived you know outside the plaza could easily come into the plaza for protection. Um nowadays I think I think those have those have changed in around the world. I mean, there are plazas obviously all up and down Central and and and South America, and even in the old world in Europe, you know, you you see lots of lots of plazas or piazzas in in Italy. And I think they really still hold a significant role. And and that is they provide they provide a central, a central gathering place. Um They provide some some sense of social glue. They provide a sense of of people being able to just come, people watch, meet new people, engage in commerce. Um I think we are in a day and age where we're we're seeing we're seeing a di decay in in human connection. You know, maybe, maybe the devices that we all carry around in our our pockets and and all of the artificial intelligence and social media, I think is is kind of pulling us away from each other. And a plaza can really help connect people. And I don't want to uh understate the importance of that. I think I think the element of human connection, community building that that a central space like a plaza can offer is is is really hard to measure. I mean, not only does it benefit the community in terms of the social fabric, but I think there are lots of economic benefits that can come along with that as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Yeah. I I we could talk about tourism too, because I imagine for generations, um Taos Plaza and and town centers, town squares, main streets um were always the destination for someone who had never been to a community before. And so tourism perhaps evolved out of that, right? If it was a place for trade or people who were traveling across the country would stop and it it was a logical gathering place. And Taus Plaza, I'm sure, was no different. Um I spend a lot of time downtown because I live there, and um even in in the years I've been here, over 20 years, and uh I feel like it's shifted. You like you said, maybe the devices, maybe the um uh attention of of the the youth especially uh is elsewhere. But um people still do gather, and I I marvel at how many people come and just will read a book on the plaza, Kit Carson Park, right? I mean we can kind of talk about the greater uh downtown area, although the center is kind of geographically the the plaza, right? You know. And um so yeah, I've seen I feel like I've seen a change in how the plaza is used. There's all the shops and it's a lot of uh tourist activity. Um but I've also seen that the more tourists are strolling through that downtown area and through the plaza, it kind of encourages locals to do the same, right? I know I've been caught up in that. I'm like, wow, there's quite a bustle down here. I think I'm gonna get in on that and just hang out and stroll around and meet people, like you said. It's still kind of that gathering place. Um Arsenio, I'm really interested to hear what it was like um when you were growing up. I don't know how many years ago that was, but it was before my time, I'm sure. Um, did you see much change in Taos Plaza or even the smaller gathering places in Hondo or other communities around northern New Mexico?

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Yeah, and I I should probably mention that I also grew up in La Placita, which is right there uh uh at the end of uh La Placita on the north side and in the main drag that was uh my family's property as well. So it didn't occur to me that the uh the word La Placita also is a derivative of yeah, and and uh um and I'm starting to notice that there's a lot of plaza names all over the uh the area, but um uh one of the things that you mentioned about the uh the greater area of downtown, uh that we used to do a lot of stuff in the plaza, but um more importantly, downtown. And uh I think we talked about this. This is a it was a place to go get your hair cut, to go buy shoes, to go um to go eat, to go catch a movie. Um there was a longtime doctor that was downtown, Dr. Dominguez, who was right on the main drag, and everybody used to go to Dr. Dominguez because he had his own pharmacy, you know, and it was easy to go and get your checkups and then get your meds right away. Uh the dentist also was downtown, so everything was right in that little uh that little space. And so um, yes, it has changed tremendously. Uh I was even mentioning the swimming pool that was downtown. You know, that used to be a big, a big deal for us kids to to go down there, go down there and do something.

SPEAKER_04 26:05

So the yeah, the plaza's not going away. I mean, the downtown area, any any community's downtown area will never go away. And of course, you know, in the last 50 years, cars have allowed things to be happening much further away, and and it might seem less relevant um for people to use the downtown area for those places, like you said, for doctors' offices and the swimming pool and stuff like that. Um but it will forever remain the the the hub of the community. And um but there is a challenge, obviously, in in keeping it uh relevant and keeping it thriving and and uh uh what was the word that we said vibrant vibrant. Yeah. Um so yeah, I think we can learn a lot from uh history, right? I mean, even though it's a different time and a kind of uh different communication and transportation. Um but I think we could learn from how these these uh places were used historically for generations and generations. And I think of Taos Pueblo and how um their plaza area is still the the the hub of their community there. And um there's the church, right? And we didn't talk too much about that. I imagine a lot of these gathering places um formed around the churches, which was uh obviously a gathering place as well, and bringing community together. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know we're not gonna come up with any solutions here about how we can get people downtown and utilizing the plaza, but um it's just such an essential uh an essential component, I think, to any community. It is for me. And because I live downtown, I might not spend as much time on the plaza as I would like to and as as others, but um it's there, it's not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Yeah, that's that's right. And you know, I think you know, they're they're uh yeah, maybe maybe we're not gonna have some some magic wand type of solution right right now to to this. But I do think, you know, part of it is is is a bit of a mind chat sift mindset shift. And I I think we we do have to kind of look at look at the historical context like Arsenio mentioned, and you know, when we when in our many conversations, you know, he's he's talked at length, you know, about how much how much you know everyday weekly life kind of occurred for residents of the community, like in and around the plaza area. I would say in a pretty short time frame, you know, by the time that I kind of came up and was was you know running running around that area at times and and going to play little league in the park, you know, late 80s to the night to the 90s, I think a lot that dynamic had had had already substantially shifted. And you know, as a kid, like we were not that welcome on the plaza. I mean, it I think I think we kind of have to be really, really clear-eyed and real about when we do talk about those dynamics. And you know, I mean, there's there was a sign on the side of the gazebo for decades that said, you know, no, no skateboarding or inline skating. And back in the the late 80s and early 90s, the the plaza was one of the few like hardscapes in the community before the youth and family center, before the skate park, where kids could come and ride their skateboards, and they were quite often chased away, you know, like youth of this community not being welcome in the center of the community. Yeah. Um, and so again, I I think those dynamics, you know, I I can't put a finger exactly on when that shift happened or or how it happened, but I do think it happened at some point. And, you know, when we think about these things, we're not we're not we're not saying like, look, we're going to the plaza needs to be exactly as it was, you know, back in in the 50s or the 60s, where you know, the only commerce that was happening all happened there. We know that that's that's Taus has grown, it's it's spread out. We have we have you know department stores, we have Walmart, we have other things now, and and that's that's that's good.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

But I think we we just need to be creative of how we of how we think about the plaza and its use. And you know, Meet Me and McCarthy's I think provides one tangible example of like, hey, just just a simple activity can bring people to the plaza. And we don't need to put any pressure on anything else. We don't need to have have all of the events and activities focused on commerce necessarily. Um we can just give people more reasons to come, to engage, to build community together. And an outcome of that is is commerce because the more time people spend in a place generally leads to them spending money in a place. After you've been there for an hour or two, you know, and people somebody gets hungry, it's like, well, why don't we just there's you know, three restaurants right here. Let's just walk into one of those instead of getting in our car and leaving.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yeah, or the or the coffee shops or you know, folks who just go to the coffee shop and then suddenly, oh, I'm in the plaza now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Yeah, Taus Plaza Live provides another great example. I mean, you know, there was in this summer, it's like you could go, you could go there on a given Thursday night, and there are hundreds of people just like dancing, listening to music together. Like that that's a beautiful example of of how community can utilize that space and build. Um, there are other cultural events that I think used to take place on the plaza that I think we want to we want to continue working with the folks and the organizations that put those on to maybe help revive and revitalize a little bit of those things. So there are more cultural events. Again, the idea is like we just need to give the community more reasons to be downtown on a more regular basis.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

And just to remind them that it's there, it's a place for them and it's accessible. And uh we could get into the parking perhaps in another episode, but it's easy to get to the plaza and it's easy to park your car and spend some time. I live down there, so I feel like I have uh uh the added privilege of of uh having my car parked and I can just walk around. I'm glad you mentioned Taos Plaza Live because I've lived down there for so long and I've participated and performed at Taos Plaza Live. Um I I I think someday how great it would be if if that wasn't like a special occasion, right? Plaza Live is like such a big thing. There's so much preparation that goes into it. Now with the new gazebo, I imagine it's gonna be a little easier and more efficient to put on events like this. And um that's something I love so much about living downtown is when when there's an event like Plaza Live or the concerts in the park, um, and they're just people everywhere and they they don't realize that this isn't how it always is, right? People from out of town are strolling around like, oh man, I love this town. There's just people everywhere. And for someone who lives down there, it's the same thing. It's like, yeah, this this is how it can be. Just, you know, people doing stuff, you know, hanging out in the park, in the plaza, seeing music. I love the buskers that are set up on the John Dunn shops and over on over by World Cup, you know, there's it just it kind of has uh uh almost like an urban feel where it's just like where these people hang out. And uh I think it's I think it's attainable.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

I do. And you know, I think you just touch on something that's that's actually really important to to can to elevate in conversation, to think about, to understand, is that you know, people attract people. Um, and you know, we've used the word vibrancy a a bunch of times. You know, tourists, tourists and visitors, they they are contributors to to that vibrancy by just kind of the sum, by by more people being downtown. However, I would I would kind of I would postulate that they're not really the source of vibrancy in a downtown. You know, so the more the more music, the more cultural activity, the more, the more sort of local people are just downtown makes it a much more interesting place for our visitors to to be in to spend time. If a visitor comes and you know, let's say they they came to ski and they want to come downtown, and they come, they come downtown and there's really nothing happening at all downtown, they're gonna spend a very short amount of time there. They they might walk around and and go into a few few shops and then head back. So the more things that are happening, the more people that are there on a regular basis give our visitors more opportunity to spend more time, and more time means more money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

I think about um, you know, the upper Bent Street start doing the first Fridays, the Harwood, there's the whole bunch of First Friday activities. And uh again, I'm able to observe it living downtown. Um just staying open an extra hour or two. Um, and people come down from the Ski Valley if it's in the wintertime or summer, they're doing their outdoor activities. They come and I could just tell it's it's so satisfying for them to have kind of a landing place and to kind of just unwind after a day of whatever they're doing. And even if it's just window shopping, you know, a lot of my shop owners on Benn Street, um, they they welcome people, just walk by. They might not even walk into the store, but the stores open and the people do the window shopping. It probably sticks in their head that this is a place we're gonna come back. That's downtown towns is great. It's a topping, you know? And even on a chill winter night where it's, you know, people are moving slow and it's not like loud music in the summertime. You might get a lot of that. But um just the fact that it's available for people and like Arsenio, you were saying, these the new sidewalks are wider and it seems like such a small detail, but I don't know, I feel a lot more comfortable, a lot more safe walking on those sidewalks, and it's just gonna encourage me to do it more often, you know?

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Right. And one of the things that I did want to touch on as well is that what what Charles said about that perhaps maybe there was a an era where there was an unwelcome, you know, uh thing that happened. But yeah, the merchants uh I'm getting to know the merchants really well that they want to see a lot more local foot traffic and they're welcoming and they're they're really nice and they're you know, they want to see more of that. And so we've been working with them and and and visiting and making the rounds regularly and and and they're fully on board.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

That's great to hear because I know there's you know, if there's just one person who doesn't want the kid on the skateboard, then it it kind of becomes like a focus point. It's like, oh my god, there's a problem with skateboarding on the plaza. But you know, it's just what people choose to uh put their attention to, and you know, choosing one's battles is a big part of it, you know. And uh yeah, I I feel pretty optimistic that everyone can really just get along and and make it a destination for locals and tourists alike. Um we have to take another break. It is 9 41, 20 minutes before 10 o'clock. Mornings on Main Street, Main Street Radio, once a month here on KNCE, Charles and Arcinio from Taos Main Street are in studio. You can check out Tausemain Street.org to see more about what is happening with Taos Main Street. Get yourself signed up for the newsletter. And um, when we come back, I'd like to hear a little bit more about the gazebo because I know it was uh the intention was to have it ready for Halloween, which is tomorrow. And from what I'm hearing, it sounds like it might be ready. And then uh let's talk about some of the other work that Main Street's doing and kind of wrap things up here for this episode. Sounds good. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Welcome back to Morning on Main Streets, everybody. I'm Charles. We've got Howie and Arsenio with us in the studio, and we're we're continuing our conversation about the plaza. We we did want to touch a little bit more on the the construction that everybody's been seeing happening on the plaza. And I I did want to, you know, maybe maybe this is a little uninteresting, but I think that something really important is happening here with with just this project. Um, I think recently over the course of the past several years, we're seeing a pretty massive public investment happening in our downtown. We we saw the the DOT's roadway project, which we all know was quite quite challenging, quite long, but they're done now. And that that that was tens of millions of dollars just in our little downtown stretch alone that that was invested in that area. We see the county investing investing a lot of money to bring the county courthouse back online. We see the town of Taos investing in purchasing the bank building and really trying to come up with some creative new uses for a building like that. We hope that they're very community driven and minded at the end of the day. And we see the use of this capital outlay money that Taos Main Street secured really trying to build up public infrastructure with with the plaza improvement project. So this is this is the second the second phase. And why why that's so critical is because you know, something that's that's really tried and true across the country is that private investment typically follows public investment. You know, you you don't see a lot of a lot of business owners or new businesses or new creatives chomping at the bit to come into an area where the public infrastructure is all really beat up. Um, things haven't been updated in in years or decades. And so when when these things start to happen, there really is a synergy between the public and the private sector. So there's there's more space for new creative and cultural events now on the plaza. There's new reasons for for new creative entrepreneurs to maybe think about doing something, you know, down on the plaza that maybe they hadn't previously considered. So that that's a really important dynamic. And and I do want to stress like, I think, I think this is a really exciting time for for our downtown and for our plaza. We we all know the challenges, but I think there are things that are starting to happen here that just haven't happened in decades. And I'm I am thrilled and excited to to for to help build the future of of downtown. I wanted to throw it over to Arsenio. He's been, you know, really, really keeping his ear to the ground on the actual construction process that's that's going on right now. He's been attending the bi-weekly construction meetings. Arsenio, give us a little a little update on on just kind of the scope of work and where where the where the progress in the project stands now.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

And we're talking about the gazebo project specifically. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Yeah, sure. Um, and I think you mentioned something earlier about there's a lot that goes on that people don't see or don't know uh is happening. And a lot of it is underground stuff like redoing electrical lines or water lines or irrigation lines or things like that. And and for a while there, there was a little bit of panic because we got Halloween, like you said, Howie tomorrow, and people are like, There's no way they're gonna be done. But they uh they were doing those important jobs underground, and and um it was important to to to specify that that was happening, you know, and so um even underneath the gazebo, there's a there's a lot of work going on down there that people just can't see as you're driving by, but they're doing a lot of really neat improvements, and especially in a in a town like Taas is so old and such old infrastructure, and uh just seeing it in the in the the homes and apartments, you know, it just uh it's it's constantly upgrading and bringing into kind of the modern age here.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

And uh yeah, it's no wonder that they spend all that time and keep things torn up for so long because they got to get under there and clean it all up.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But uh now, um so so as uh Charles said, uh I used to attend the bi-weekly meetings, uh the construction meetings to to hear about all those things and then to report out. But um in the last couple of weeks, you can really see the progress and the fine-tuning that's occurring. And uh instead of waiting two weeks to get an update, you almost have to be there hour to hour. And I think you can allude to that as well, Howie.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Sure. Well, yeah, I've seen it even just the fence coming down, and uh yeah, they were going gangbusters. I saw 10 people probably on site a couple of days ago. Yeah, you know, and granted they're like cramming trying to get it done, but it's great to know that there's the resources out there and it's actually happening.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Yeah, the county uh have have set up a really awesome team to get that uh done, and of course, all the subcontractors that have been part of this as well, they're they're really uh I think they're really um conscientious about um our wants and needs here and and uh kudos to them for sure.

SPEAKER_04 42:33

Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to uh seeing it in the coming days because it's about like you said, every hour they make a little bit more progress. And then for uh the big Halloween downtown celebration that the town of Towns puts on um tomorrow, all afternoon, uh it'll be put to the test.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there's uh there's a new there's a new ADA ramp. So so now, you know, people that have any any level of mobility challenge are actually gonna be able to like get in into the gazebo and sit under the gazebo. Um they they had to redo a lot of the electrical work and really update it. So now I think more music is gonna be a lot easier to happen in the plaza. Um, you know, they fixed, they they fixed the the the roofing, which was which was causing some damage, water damage to to the frame of the gazebo, the posts, as well as anything that might be underneath the gazebo when it rains. Um they expanded what the bandstand of the gazebo, so there's actually now more space for for performances to to to pull out a little bit from underneath the gazebo, and and and that's really exciting. Arsenio, I know that we've we've had a lot of comments or questions about what's underneath the gazebo. We know that those those were bathrooms at one point in time, but they no longer are going to be bathrooms. What what's what's the plan for underneath?

SPEAKER_03 43:58

So they're restoring underneath. They're uh they're refixing the walls, yes. Um I've heard different stories about what that downtown used to be. I heard that it might have been a jail at one time. It was a place where they would all the confiscated uh things that the Taos uh police used to get used to end up down there and and the locks weren't uh exactly that um you know that foreboding.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

Have you been in that space? Have you personally been down there? I have, yes. Yeah, yeah. And is it um now I know I'm getting a little off point here, but is it um like a full basement, like headroom you could stand in there? Yeah, it's like it's like a separate floor basement or something.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Correct. And there's multiple rooms down there. There is one and uh there used to be two stairwells because there was a boys and girls bathroom uh uh down below, but now they just have the one and they have a really neat contraption to uh to keep people out of there. And so it's uh it's gonna be way more secure and it's gonna be uh way more um uh usable.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

Yeah, that's cool. I it's cool to think. I know, and we could spend an episode talking about the these mysterious tunnels that are all around the downtown area that I've been hearing about. And uh I imagine that's part of the network there underneath the plaza.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Yeah, I I would imagine so I bet there's uh there's a uh a mysterious door somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Sure. Well, that's great to hear that um so much work was ha is happening and it's gonna be uh there for the public to see um today and tomorrow for the Halloween celebration. That's great. Um let's just remind folks though that uh Main Street's role in securing the funds for that gazebo project, because that's uh no that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Yeah, that is that is a big deal, and it it takes it takes considerably more time than again, I think, I think a lot of people understand. And the reality too is that New Mexico Main Street, they don't, you know, you've gotta you've gotta kind of prove your mettle to some extent as a program before they're going to you know award you you you and your partners you know a significant amount of money for public infrastructure work. So we we had to really be diligent for you know four years or so before we could even think about applying for for money like that. There it if you start, you know, there nobody in their first year gets a million dollars of capital outlay money for public sector improvements because the capacity as a program and and the partnerships just aren't well developed.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

Sure, sure. So a million dollars was the uh amount that came in for the plaza project specifically.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Yeah, that goes. That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. And you know, as as qu as soon as as this gets spent down, um the beauty is is once once you've demonstrated success and and your ability to spend these funds down, there is a lot of capital outlay funds allocated all over the state, not just through New Mexico Main Street, but through the legislature that are not being spent. Spending spending that type of money is is is more complicated than it should be, maybe. Right. Yeah. Um and so we're we're really we're already thinking about, okay, we're they've got this phase, they've got a they've got another phase for the plaza that that they'll probably start in early spring. And we're already looking towards you know formulating formulating some plans and ideas for the next for applying for more money. Yeah. And we want to keep you know being able to deliver that kind of public investment to to continue to enhance our our public infrastructure.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

And like you said, um the private money tends to follow the public money. So this little project, I'm sure, is gonna raise some eyebrows like, oh, maybe I need to get in on this before it's too late. You know, let's let's uh take one of the properties we have in downtown and really make it uh capitalize on the on that uh improvement that's happening. Courtesy the Towns Main Street, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Absolutely. We're we're again, I think I think it's a really exciting time for the plaza for our downtown.

SPEAKER_04 47:49

Awesome. Um, all right. Well, we're kind of winding down here, running out of time. Um, is there anything else you want to touch on before we kind of wrap up and uh talk about what's next?

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yeah, absolutely. So a few things just on the horizon that I want to mention. I think some of these things we will we will really dive a little deeper into in some of our upcoming episodes. Um one one of the things that we're we're really excited about is is the brick. That's the business resource and innovation center. That is something that we are looking, you know, have built a really extensive partnership with the town, the county, uh, our local SBDC, the Chamber of Commerce, UNM TAUS, the Hive. Um, and the idea behind the BRIC is is there's a few things. One, it's to create really a one-stop shop for businesses in TAUS who are seeking resources and support um permits. There were there'll be space uh in the brick for both town and county staff to kind of help streamline uh the permitting process around businesses in Taos, um, just reduce kind of the the redundancies or or the the strain that that can put on aspiring entrepreneurs. So that's something that we're really excited about. That we will um there will be much more coming on that uh soon. Um we we continue to diligently work and host the destination stewardship network. There's a two really key initiatives, uh exciting key initiatives that are that are emerging from from that work. Um and that's that's a cultural events front fund that that's we're very close to launching. And again, um the idea there is to to kind of incubate and provide some level of of investment and financial support to small cultural events or events that haven't haven't quite happened yet, um, to really, again, you know, use the plaza and use other areas throughout the Tao Taos County for more cultural activities and events. So that's that's really exciting. Stay tuned for that. Awesome. Also, we have the tourism innovators cohort that's being led by the UNM TOUS Hive. Um, they're it that's a really fascinating program and approach. They're they're really looking at at innovators that are that are already here in the community that are just taking these really innovative approaches to to tourism, who are thinking outside the box, who are thinking about new ways that that we can create experiences for visitors that are meaningful, that are equitable. Um, so that's that's really exciting. Again, stay stay tuned. Uh, stay tuned for that. Um in the coming coming year, we certainly are gonna be launching season two of Meet Me McCarthy's. Nice. Um, I don't think I need to say much more about that, but that was enough. That was that was so successful that we're obviously gonna do that again.

SPEAKER_04 50:35

And not not have it for the winter, a little too cold to be strolling through downtown.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

But we are going to use that as a model again. Instead of instead of planning kind of large one-off events, we're gonna really hone in on how we can create more regular activity for the community to come and be downtown. I did want to give a quick uh a quick shout out uh to to uh the county and a partner of ours who who is engaged in in a in the cultural treasures project. I don't know if anybody's heard anything about this yet.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

We've been talking about it. I've been seeing the signs, the odd signs around town.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Absolutely. So uh we've been participating as a partner in that project. Um, that's also something that's come that's that sort of came out of the destination stewardship plan and efforts. And you know, when when we do talk about the plaza and we do talk about, you know, these these activities that used to be there, the history of the plaza, you know, the cultural event, uh, the the cultural treasures project is a really cool way to to actually record some history of of what used to be there or what used to happen there. So you can search the Cultural Treasures Project. You it's on the county's website, and we're really look, they're really looking to collect information from all over the community about you know what what does the community actually treasure? What are things that used to happen? Who are the people who are these treasures? Who are our storytellers? Um, it's a really, really important project for future planning, for future community and economic development. For it has it has land use implications, zoning implications. Um I'm I'm probably not doing it a ton of justice right now. Um, but again, check out the Cultural Treasures project uh at the on the Taos County website and please uh you know learn learn more. Really, really fascinating stuff going on.

SPEAKER_04 52:26

Awesome. And I expect we'll be um talking more about that uh independent of Main Street um as the project continues. Um Charles Arsenio, thanks so much for another fine episode of Mornings on Main Street. We're gonna be doing this once a month, probably the third Tuesday of every month. And uh it's still very much a works in progress, so we'll just see how it goes for next month, and um, we'll keep people informed here on KNC as to when and where and uh what to expect.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Awesome. Yeah, thank you, Howie. Great time. And again, all the listeners, you know, keep keep keep plugged into what's going on downtown, keep plugged into Taos Main Street. Check out the website taosmainstreet.com, social media at Taos Main Street. Um, sign up for the newsletter. Like, yeah, there's there's lots happening. It's an exciting time. It's it's a good time to be uh mornings on Main Street.

SPEAKER_04 53:18

Awesome. Thanks so much, guys.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

Have a great day.