The Power of Connection
Conversations on leadership, storytelling, and staying human in a noisy world.
I'm Bobby Umar. 5x TEDx speaker, Inc Magazine Top 100 Leadership Speaker, and 2x LinkedIn Top Voice. For 25 years I've spoken on stages across 4 continents about the one thing that actually drives careers, businesses, and lives: the power of connection.
This show is where influence gets human again. Each episode gives you one big idea and something you can use right away, whether that's telling stories that move people, building a personal brand rooted in who you really are, becoming a thought leader without becoming a performer, or leading with the kind of vulnerability that builds real trust.
Expect solo teaching sessions, masterclasses with brilliant guest experts, and honest conversations about what it takes to be seen, heard, and remembered.
If you're a leader, entrepreneur, speaker, or anyone building something that depends on people trusting you, this show is for you.
New episodes weekly. Let's get into it.
The Power of Connection
Why LinkedIn Comments Beat LinkedIn Posts
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Digital relationships run on a longer clock than in-person ones. Several comments and a couple of messages spread over weeks, rather than one good fifteen-minute conversation at an event. Most people quit long before it works.
In this session Bobby is joined by Niraj Kapur, Ariel Lee and Jonaed Iqbal to work through how relationships actually get built on LinkedIn. Why comments are the currency that drives reach, and why a good one runs twelve words rather than "great post." The sequence that turns a stranger into a familiar face before you ever send a connection request. Voice notes and video over typed messages. And why effort is the entire differentiator when almost nobody makes any.
Bobby closes with his own approach. He is a huge advocate for multiplatform content, because we are all on rented space. And he makes the case that personal branding is what gives the whole thing direction, so that every comment and every reach-out is purposeful instead of scattered.
Niraj Kapur is a LinkedIn Top Voice in sales and author of "Everybody Works In Sales," based in Northern Ireland. Ariel Lee is a LinkedIn coach. Jonaed Iqbal is the founder of NoDegree.
The Power of Connection is hosted by Bobby Umar, 5x TEDx speaker and Inc Magazine Top 100 Leadership Speaker. For weekly insights on personal branding and thought leadership, join his newsletter: https://bobbyumar.substack.com
Welcome to the Power of Connection. I am Bobby Umar, five-time TEDx speaker, and this is where we make influence human again. One idea, one conversation, one thing you can use. Let's get into it.
SPEAKER_05My name is Bobby Umar. I am a five-time TEDx speaker and Inca Magazine Top Water speaker and now LinkedIn Top Voice, and also from the Father Brain Club, which is a membership community to help people elevate their digital voice and brand. I'm very excited to have our monthly live stream. I have three amazing speakers that are going to share knowledge about how to build meaningful relationships and how to cultivate uh cultivate those connections uh online and digital because I think it's a very hard thing for a lot of us to do. I'll start off but actually by uh intro uh getting the folks to introduce themselves. Um and uh we'll start with uh we'll start with Ariel. Ariel, please introduce yourself and then can you pass it on to the next person and the next person so that I have to like keep talking.
SPEAKER_00Of course, of course. Good morning, everybody, or whatever time zone you happen to be in. Um I'm on the east coast of the United States in Spartanburg, South Carolina. My name is Ariel Lee. Um, I cannot talk on a recorded thing about what I do for a living, but I'm super happy to connect with everybody um on LinkedIn who happens to be watching this live. If we are not already friends, um I'm a massive LinkedIn nerd and have met most of my best friends in the whole entire world. Um, as a matter of fact, right after this Zoom, I am getting, or not Zoom, this live, I'm getting in the car uh with two strangers from the internet, driving seven hours down the road to Orlando to stay at a giant Airbnb with a bunch of other internet stranger friends. Um so I'm just really, really passionate about this topic. Um, I didn't know it was going to fall on the day of my trip, but um building meaningful relationships online is something that has absolutely changed my life. And so I'm really excited to be here and chat about it. So um Janayed is on top of my picture for my view. So uh why don't you go next?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my name is Janay Dickball. I'm the founder of no degree.com and host of the no degree podcast where I interview people without college degrees and have them share their stories. I've had Ariel on four years ago, so we are actual LinkedIn friends. One day we'll meet in person somehow, someplace somewhere. Uh but yeah, I'm also very active on LinkedIn and I've been consistent. It's been like five years. I I've networked so much and I've met so many amazing people, and I have done the stranger thing with LinkedIn friends in an Airbnb. So I'm always excited to share those things.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, and of course, Niraj, go ahead. Hi, everybody, I'm Niraj. Um, I spent 30 years working in London, and now I live in Game of Thrones territory in Ireland, really the most spectacularly beautiful country. So I'm very lucky to live here. Um LinkedIn's been quite incredible for me because the first few years I used it, I did not know how to use it. And now I know how to use it, and I have a fantastic, not just a fantastic career, but I have a wonderful tribe and a wonderful community, and I meet people from all over the world, which really and truly is such a joy. I can't even tell you. And I'm just looking forward to not only sharing ideas, but listen to what Ariel and Janaide and Bobby have to say today as well.
SPEAKER_05Awesome. Thanks, guys. And for those of you listening in, again, if you have questions or comments or you want to share where you're coming, calling in from, put in the chat box so I can feature on the plat on the on the call. I want to start with you, Ariel. You know, you're a very nationally bubbly public persona. I love talking to you. You have so much energy. Can you talk about how you translated that into digital? Because was there any sort of challenge in the early days? I'm just curious how that how that happened for you.
SPEAKER_00So it's funny because I'm actually I felt more empowered to be super um, super authentic, very much myself, very open on LinkedIn or online um than I do in real life, right? Like I, the real life people that I'm exposed to don't necessarily have a choice whether or not to spend time with me, right? They are fellow parents in my daughter's class. They are coworkers in my previous industry. All of these things I had always kind of boxed myself up and not ever wanted to be too much or too out there because I don't have a choice of whether to see these people again. The beautiful thing about LinkedIn for me was that I was very aware of the fact that it was a global network and anybody who didn't like what I was about um could just keep scrolling if they weren't, you know, if they didn't want to be a part of my tribe, like Niraj said, I believe that your vibe attracts your tribe. Um, I was chatting with the friends that I'm about to road trip with earlier, and they had seen a um a post that said something to the effect of um how someone would never work with or hire someone who had the pronoun field spilled out in their LinkedIn name. Like I've it was obviously it was a you know super bigoted thought process. But I'm like, but isn't that such a beautiful thing that something that simple could be a trigger to let us know that we are not meant to work with those people, um, other than going into a business relationship and then finding out down the line um that it's not a good fit from a personality or a values-based perspective. So I'm just a huge fan of the fact that LinkedIn allows you, if you show up as who you are, um, your vibe is gonna attract that tribe and you don't have to put on any kind of mask or um or waste any bandwidth being something that you're not. People love you for who you are, um, or they don't, which is also amazing. Um, so just really, really a big fan of that.
SPEAKER_05That's an interesting idea, the idea of being someone that you're not. I mean, sometimes I think our persona in person versus what's online is different. Janay, have you ever like how do you be yourself uh visually? And did you ever have any problems with overcoming that?
SPEAKER_01You know, one of the best compliments I get when I meet people is like you're exactly who I expected you to be. So I've always found that like eventually I'll meet these people in a different setting. And if I'm not who I say I am, then that's gonna be a problem. Because I've met a lot of people, I've met over a thousand people on LinkedIn in person through just various. I'm in New York City, so you get to see a lot of people, and then some people are very underwhelming. Like it's like, hey, you're not that person, you're not this nice guy who's really there. You just play it up for social media, and when I meet you, you're just all about business, you're not trustworthy, you're not this, you say no to things, whereas online you you come across this person. So I always say that you don't focus on growth for the sake of growth, focus on growing organically and growing in a way that people resonate. Because if you can't grow that way, you're gonna run into issues. I've known people who grow accounts certain ways and they get to big size, and now you you you can't really go back, right? You've grown a certain way and words are spreading around. I think like as big of a LinkedIn, as big of a community LinkedIn is, it's also a small community, so you start realizing like who is what they say they are and who isn't. So I always say that if you're growing in your networking, be who you say you are. That's where you're gonna get opportunity, that's where you're gonna get the right opportunity. And just like Ariel said, some people are not the right opportunity for you. You know, just because someone has a big following, I'm not gonna be like, hey, I want to do this with this person. Some people are just not good for me, and they're not good for my audience, and I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_05And you know, Niraj, I'm curious, and again, this is you guys can also interrupt me and it with uh counterpoints or other add-ons, it's fine. But I want to start by asking you a question. Niraj, you know that uh, you know, one of the things I I love the way you post, I love the way you are, uh you talk about sales and things like that. But you know, let's talk about the sales thing because I'm curious, I'm curious about that. I think a lot of people are afraid of sales on the end. Uh and uh and the fear of sales and the fear of let's say, you know, having real conversation on digital is something that people I think are uncomfortable with and afraid of. And so now that's two things. There's the the digital conversation, then there's the sales thing. I'm just curious if you have any tips for people to, I guess, overcome that fear, overcome those that that mindset that, oh my gosh, like, you know, can I really do this?
SPEAKER_02Sure. I'm gonna go back to what Ariel uh said for a second about authenticity. I 100% believe you should be authentic online. However, what's more important is that you work on yourself first, because some people are authentically just they come across badly, but they go, hey, I'm just being authentic. So it's really important to know yourself and it's really important to work on yourself. And not many people do that. So that's the first thing you should do before you be authentic. And in terms of selling the mindset, my mind the shift is really tiny, it's so tiny you wouldn't believe it. Instead of saying I hate sales, which a lot of people do, instead of saying sales makes me icky, which a lot of people do, as a business owner, you often don't have a choice, especially at the beginning. I know how difficult the first two years of business were. They were terrible. And despite my vast experience in London, I still find it quite difficult selling on LinkedIn. But when you change your attitude from I'm gonna sell to people to I'm going to help people and I'm gonna give value to people and I'm gonna solve problems, all of a sudden selling becomes a better way of doing business, a better way of showing up, and also a much stronger way of building relationships with people.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I'll add on to that. Well, go ahead, Mariel. No, I was gonna say that Naraj just took the words right out of my mouth because Lynn Williams in the comments said authenticity is important, but you need to be cognizant of your long-term digital footprint. And so what I always tell people is that if you are a jerk, work on that first before you try to develop a personal brand. Um, I have zero qualms or concerns about my digital footprint because even if I put things out that are silly or ridiculous or, you know, whatever, it is true to who I am. So I would never put something out that was unkind or untruthful because that's not who I am. Um, so I think that folks that are worried about their digital footprint are people who, like Miraj said, probably need to work on a little bit of self-development before they focus on any sort of um personal branding effort. But I'm so sorry to interrupt you, Janaide.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean I didn't even get started, so you didn't interrupt anything.
SPEAKER_05See, that's all polite, these relationship builder people. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So one thing I'll say is like when you're going online and you're in business for yourself, oftentimes, and this aerial former career, people have this perception of the used car salesperson, right? That you're hey, you need to buy now, quick, quick, quick. This high pressure sales, and that exists online. But I always tell people, and they're worried about this criticism, like, oh, someone's gonna comment and be like, oh, you're selling, what are you doing? And everyone's just supposed to post. And I tell people, it's okay to sell, it's okay to add value, it's okay to get customers, especially if you have something that they can benefit from. And you know, you're worried about this commenter. The commenter works for a company that has salespeople, you know. So I've had people criticize me and I'd be like, Well, you work for HubSpot, and I'm getting emails for them salespeople. So, you know, it's like this cognitive dissonance, as like a lot of people who don't work in sales, they just assume that money just flows into the company somehow. There has to be a way, right? They have to have some marketing, they have to have some sales. So I tell people, ignore those other people because there are other people who are gonna be like, Hey, Ariel, you have what I need. Janay, you have what I need, Naraj, you have this thing. Who cares about some people who are criticizing you who would never buy your product anyway? There are other people who are like, you know, they're browsing the feed and you have something just like you know, you help people with the TEDx talks. And it's like there's some people who are generally interested in that and they want to hear that. And the fact is, we have to make a living, right? So you have to. And then one comment I'll say is I'm so glad I got online because I have found that online friends will support your business more than real more than people in real life. It's just for whatever reason, I find that there's a there's something special and they give you a reach that you can't get in person.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I think a lot of people uh a lot of people struggle with uh getting online. I mean, one of the things that I tell people to get started with is you know, get clear on your objective. Like, what are you trying to do? What's your brand? What's your target eyes? Like, think about those things. Like, why am I on LinkedIn? Why am I on other platforms? You know, and uh are you there to just, you know, like I'm on, you know, like Twitter on there, I Twitter on Top of Politics, right? And on Instagram I share family photos. Like I had we celebrated e just on Monday, you know, so like that was a big thing. And then what am I on LinkedIn for? And I think about those things, and I think for a lot of people who are trying to figure out, you know, how to build relationships that digitally. I mean, the pandemic certainly threw us into that digital landscape most of the time. And now we're trying to traverse both the in-person as well as the digital. So I think a lot of people still struggle with that. I kind of want to throw it to the panel to see like, you know, what do you think are uh you know, why is it so hard? Why is digital relationship building and cultivating these relationships so hard? And maybe I'll start with you uh uh start with you, Niraj.
SPEAKER_02Digital is so hard because a lot of people, when they're unsure of how to do something, default to cliche. So when people try and build relationships with me, they genuinely think that by talking about their business and trying to sell to me is a good way of doing it. A good example is my birthday every year. I've got at least eight to ten people saying, happy birthday, Nairaj. Because it's your birthday, I'd like to give you a 30% discount off our software.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, no, it's not it.
SPEAKER_02Um and you know, I have literally had about, I don't know, say about a thousand LinkedIn DMs and emails this year from people trying to sell to me. I have met one person, I'm almost about to buy from him. And the reason I met him was he researched my company, he looked at my post, he made an effort. And to anybody out there that's a bit unsure, or maybe someone maybe who's an introvert and thinks, oh God, I can never do this, there's two things I want to say. First of all, if you make an effort, you will stand over and above 99% of people on social media in general who make zero effort. And the second thing is, as as Bobby and Ariel know, I flew back from a LinkedIn training session yesterday in England. And I would say 90% of the room were men under 30 who use social media a lot, but were terrified, terrified of selling on LinkedIn. I did not expect that because they used uh you know, Instagram, no problem, they used Facebook, TikTok, but they were terrified of LinkedIn. And that surprised me. And I kept saying to them, okay, instead of tapping a message to somebody, let's let's be different, because LinkedIn is not just about being authentic, which it is, it's about standing out. And one of the smartest things you can do when you connect with people, because nobody needs more messages, is to send a video or send a voice note because your energy, your enthusiasm, your passion, your tone, everything comes across so much better on a voice note or a video. And that's lot certainly how I communicate with so many people. I mean, Bobby, almost all our conversations are voice notes because A, I find it easier, but also B, I can communicate so much better that way.
SPEAKER_05What about you guys? What do you uh, Ariel, what do you think about that in terms of you know uh overcoming the struggles or the challenge to, you know, keep for people that are trying to try to figure this out.
SPEAKER_00So I think on LinkedIn specifically, there's um a lot of folks that go into it with and just overthink the heck out of it. Um, because there's so many people floating around the platform that are really, really heavy on you have to provide value, you have to do this. And we get inside our own heads about what we know or what we have to share that's valuable. And we forget that there are things that um are valuable just inherently, like communication and conversation. And um, you know, so I I don't spend a lot of time on content creation because my stuff is more just off the cuff. That's the style that I choose to um choose to work with because again, I don't want to overthink it, I just want to roll with it. Um, but there's a lot of value in creating conversations and I think um in entertainment is a value. So I think people get in their heads about, oh, I don't have anything worth sharing. I don't, I don't know anything special or I don't do anything special. Um, and we all, and that's you know, so many of the brilliant LinkedIn coaches that I know um and I'm friends with, that's the main thing that they accomplish with their clients is just having a literal 20-minute conversation to pull out of them all their life experiences and their things that are different or unique or special that they can talk about. Um, because until somebody, you know, like Janayed with his podcast, until somebody highlights that, we don't feel like our story is worth telling or is special enough to talk about. Um, so I think that that's something that people struggle with.
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna go a little against the grain, and I don't think it's hard to build relationships online. I just think is different. And I'm just gonna talk about just people have become friends with through people through online chats, through online games, through online that. I just think people don't realize, like, hey, just because I don't meet someone in person does not mean I can't consider them a friend. I think it's actually easier because in real life, right, you have to meet them, there's some proximity, right? You meet people through school, work, the community, and all that online. That is the community. So, like, I mean, Ariel's done a great job at it. Like, when I started on LinkedIn five years ago, I just used to comment, and I find that you can just comment, you can do things, you can never create content and make a lot of friends. So I think it's about that commenting, and sometimes people feel weird. Like, why would I can I comment? Like, can I congratulate like this person that I don't know? Of course you can. And eventually you start commenting and you start finding some people who respond back to you. You you like some people's personalities, and then eventually you hop on a call. And I think that sometimes online friendships are easier to maintain because you're both online and you could spend two minutes while you're microwaving your food, leaving a comment and on to the next thing. So I I find that if you can mix the online with in-person, you have something very valuable. Like Ariel, she's meeting two online friends and going on a trip with them. And it's different because when you meet them, you already know a lot about them, you know their personality. So I think it's it's different, it takes consistency and work, but I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be.
SPEAKER_05Well, you know, I think there's two things that come to my mind. One is the uh you mentioned different formats, right? So you talked about you know putting comments out there, and so often when I work with uh CEO type people, I start going on comments because it's easier for them to just post post content, and it's easier for them to comment. You know, Niraj mentioned the voice notes and video message, I think that was another way to do things. So I think that's that's that's so having different types of things. I mean, you gotta play your strengths, you know, know what you like to do, know what you don't like to do. There's like there's certain things that I will do, and other things that I'm not typically will do. I still can, but I know it's not my it's not my my main thing I would do. But the other thing I want to kind of mention is I think with digital, it's a longer play. Um, so for example, when I meet someone at a conference, I will typically meet them in person and you know, within 15-20 minutes, we have a pretty good connection. We met each other, and it can often lead to a call or a coffee pretty quickly. Whereas uh on digital it's a longer play. So I may have several comments, several DMs, uh, a long time before we actually get on a call or or or have some sort of you know uh relationship that way. So I think to me, it's I think the reason why it's hard for some folks is they think, oh, I commented three times and nothing happened, what's the point? Or you know, I messaged him uh twice and then they stopped talking to me and what's going on here. And so I don't know what kind of voice that was, but I've and and they get frustrated, they they let it go. And so, you know, I'm curious what do you guys think about that. I mean, I'm thinking that there's there's a longer, like when you think about building a meaningful relationship, and you know, like there's there's certainly the instant connection piece, but then you have to build a longer connection. I mean, I'm curious for you guys what are some of the strategies you employ, including tactics, to build a long-term relationship. And I'll start with uh Ariel.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, I was just reading through. So Daniel Wright commented and asked if um nonprofits should have a different approach. And I just wanted to address that question that in in my and again, this is just my opinion, and and my approach to LinkedIn is very um casual and lighthearted. So take it with a grain of salt. If it doesn't resonate with you, that's totally fine. But my thought process has always been the humans do business with humans. Um, and in nonprofits, your business, right, or volunteers and fundraising. Uh, and so I don't care if you're a B2B, a B2C, a nonprofit, whatever. I think that you show up as a human being on LinkedIn, you form valuable relationships because you never know who knows somebody. Um, for example, my um in my industry now, I can also Only do business with people who live inside the United States. Now, does that mean that I turn my nose up at someone like Mirage who lives in Ireland and say, Well, I don't want to be friends with him because there's no way that he can ever be a client of mine? No, he's a brilliant friend. I've learned a million and one things from him. He supports me to the moon and back. Um, and there may be a point where he has a client or a friend who's in the United States and he says, Hey, you know who you need to talk to? My friend Ariel. So I think that there is value in showing up as a human, no matter what your business is, what your offer is. Um, just make those connections because you never know where the synapses are going to fire that links you to the right um person. And now that I've gone on that tirade, I kind of forgot what your initial you said what the strategies were to build those relationships.
SPEAKER_05Sure, sure, like the long-term strategy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00For a nonprofit. Oh, well, so Daniel was asking about the nonprofits, but I think Bobby was just asking in general. Um, and again, I am not a very strategic person. I'm very off the cuffs and I don't overthink um a lot of things. I mean, I I do overthink a lot of things. I'm like classic ADHD anxiety, but my LinkedIn presence is the one area of my life that I'm like, just take it or leave it. Um, and so I think that Janay had hit the nail on the head earlier with the word consistency. Um, it is so easy to maintain online relationships because we are all spending time on this platform. Um, it is easier than taking an hour out of your day to go grab coffee or lunch to catch up with friends. However, it is very out of sight and out of mind. Um, I have people that were dear, dear friends of mine in 2020 and 2021, and they no longer post, either they change jobs or whatever, so they don't hang out on the platform anymore. And I honestly struggle to bring their names to my brain at this point just because they have they have been removed from my ecosystem for so long that they're no longer top of mind for me. So I think consistency is the important part when it comes to maintaining those relationships because if you're not showing up, and it's the same with in-person stuff, right? If you don't call or text a friend to catch up that lives locally for years at a time, they're gonna forget you exist. And that sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. And I just think it's easier to maintain that consistency in an online world because if you're commenting or creating content, it you know, if I write a post that takes me five minutes to write and a hundred people react to it, that's a hundred people that were reminded that I exist today. I didn't have to have a hundred separate conversations, I got to just have that five minutes that it took me to write the post. So, um, anyway, that's my that's my thoughts on a non-strategic strategy.
SPEAKER_01So I'll chime in on nonprofits. I think nonprofits have an easier time than traditional businesses because nonprofits have a cause that they support, and there are plenty of business professionals who support causes, and there are plenty of organizations that support a cause. So I know I want to highlight Ariel's nonprofit, the nonprofit she works for. So think about this: you highlight the members, you highlight the cause, you highlight what you did. Hey, we just launched a new center, hey, we just launched a new program here to we just help you know for you get their first job. Like that's exciting, as opposed to like, hey, my accounting firm saves you 22% on taxes. So you really have to highlight the people, the causes, what you're doing, and really engage with the people. And then why wouldn't you want? And then when you're ready, like, hey, we're having our annual gala, hey, we want to raise XYZ, we're gonna match funds. Uh it's so much easier to do it when you've actually seen the stories and you can do it digitally, whereas a lot of nonprofits sometimes they have to do a lot of physical events, and these cost money, they cost time. Now, when you expand it digitally, you have access to so many more people, and you can get the message out so much further.
SPEAKER_02Uh, we just had Father's Day in England on Sunday, and uh I noticed four people in my network who said this is the first year without my father. I reached out to all four with a voice note to say, I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine what you're feeling. Uh because I genuinely can't. Um, here's my number, here is my email address. Uh, please reach out, let's have a zoom. I'm not gonna give you my advice unless you want it. I'm just simply happy to listen. Of those four people, all four came back to me saying thank you. And two of them are gonna meet me this week. That to me is a power of LinkedIn. It's being able to reach out and help people. At least three times a week. I'll help someone who is lost a job or open for work and I'll say, look, you your banner is blank. You need to have something there. Your about section's got two lines. I strongly urge you to fill it up. You may want to think about liking and commenting and post because I know that you're not doing that at all. So, LinkedIn for me is an unbelievable support system to help other people, and that is one of the easiest ways to build relationships, is purely by helping other people. Sarah Sarah Clay is doing her book launch today, and I said, Look, I'm with Bobby today in Ariel, I can't make it, but I wish you the very best luck. But you mentioned me back saying, Thank you so much, you always wish me well. I appreciate that. Now that doesn't have any financial benefit to me, but I do it because I genuinely wish you the very best luck. And she's a LinkedIn connection, and I hope she does well. So it's just about giving, giving, giving and not really expecting anything in return. And in terms of the there's in the comments section, there's two things. In terms of the nonprofit angle, non-profits and charities need to become better at storytelling and sales because the ones that approach me certainly are not. They say, Hey, do you want to support us? I'm like, No, I don't know you, you know. But if you tell me a story, tell me about your cause, as we discussed earlier. I need to I have a I need to have a reason on why to do things. Uh, I think it was Chris Barnes earlier who said uh voice notes don't work for me. Uh Chris, if you want to reach out to me privately um and tell me what it is you say, I'll then respond to you. Because a lot of people that do use video or voice notes use it to say, Hi, um, how are you? I'd like to uh explore synergies with you. That doesn't work. It doesn't work. Stop saying that. Um, so quite often what you say in a voice note or a video is just as important. You should do it because you stand out. However, what you say in it is very important too.
SPEAKER_05Janet, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01You want to share what you're saying? And one other thing about voice notes, I find that if you send a voice note, a lot of people don't even know that you can do voice notes on LinkedIn. So I always say give context. So you give the note and just be like, hey, just want to say, I just want to give you a voice note doing XYZ. So now they have context because what happens is sometimes I get a voice note, but I'm in the middle of a meeting or I see it and I can't listen to it. And then I promptly kind of forget, or whatever. But if I see the context, I'll be like, okay, now I know. Oh, Ariel's telling me about an update. Uh Naraj is giving me, you know, some insight about an incident that happened to me. Now that gives me some context. So I always say give some context on the voice notes or the videos so that people know what they're opening up. And I just want to say, like, the power of networking. I'm actually going, I have a flight that I gotta catch, and I'm actually going to uh Milwaukee, and my friend from LinkedIn is picking me up from the airport. I'm staying with her and her family. I'm going to Chicago because my other friend from Australia is hosting an event in Chicago, and then I have a webinar and I'm meeting my friend from college, and I only know she's in Chicago because I messaged her on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is something that's so powerful if you actually use it. And if you try to be a good member of the community, I find that the LinkedIn community is one of those that if you pour into, it will pour back into you in so many ways.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And so I really appreciate this. And I gotta go. I really appreciate all of you. I gotta get on the flight. Have a good one, everyone.
SPEAKER_05Good to see you, Janet. Take care. Thanks, Janet. And I just want to comment like, look, I know you guys are all LinkedIn people. I'm gonna comment on the thing that look, this is live streaming across Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, uh, and and LinkedIn and YouTube. And what I can tell you is that when it comes to building culture and deep relationships, most of strategies are very, very similar. Okay, it's about engaging people, it's about replying, it's about retweeting, supporting them, it's about commenting, uh, going to DMs and all that kind of stuff. It's very similar. The only difference is that you know your objective and your target on those platforms are those different. I'm a huge advocate for multi-platform content because we're on written space, and I believe that while LinkedIn is my primary, I'm definitely quite prolific on Instagram and Twitter as well. So because the truth is I have a diverse network and I find people who come to me from those platforms, and next thing you know, they all end up, I I bring them all to my website and to my email list, right? That's what that's where I want them to go. But I think that's I just want to make that point because I think it's really important to understand that. And uh, you know, you you find your tribe wherever you are, but I think there's huge benefits to having uh a diverse uh retailer. So just want to share that. But I what I want I what I want to get into now, guys, and again, I I was I haven't shared as many comp comp comments because it kept covering Mirage's face, and so now that Jai's gonna share share the comments. I don't know why you're on the bottom. I was like, can I move him? I would probably figure it out. So I don't know who Jordan Carter is. Uh, do you guys know what this reference is?
SPEAKER_00I don't, and I do notice this is a YouTube comment, so I don't know if he's a LinkedIn person or if this is on a display.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a it's a it's a YouTube, it's a YouTube comment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so if um if you would like to elaborate a little bit on that, um yeah, put that in the comments and and I'll be able to see it because I'm curious what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_05I mean, again, I send voice notes on Instagram and Facebook messages as well as LinkedIn. I love doing voice notes. And I kind of what I kind of want to get into actually is tactics because I think people here would benefit from your knowledge of the tactics. So, you know, let's start with let's start with commenting, right? I mean, when you're trying to build a connection and get their attention and start cultivating a meaningful relationship, what exactly do you do when it comes to commenting on people's posts? I'll start with you and your eyes and go Ariel.
SPEAKER_02Well, what I do is if I'm really interested in uh with somebody, what I'll do first of all before I uh connect with them is I'll comment on their post. I won't just go great post or awesome because that doesn't really connect with the algorithm. You want to do five words or more, ideally. Uh, anybody can do five words or more, 12 words or more, according to the recent algorithm report from Richard Vanderblom, works fantastically well. So now I've started to make an effort to do 12 words or more. 12 words, okay. 12 words or more. So I but I do comment at least once or twice in people's posts, and then I send a personalized connection request, not a generic one, because I don't want generic connections. Why would you send a generic invite? So I also send a personalized invite, say I've been liking and commenting on your posts because of something I liked about it. And then once they accept that invite, I then click the bell next to their profile, which means every time they post, it goes straight through to my notifications. And that's just an easy way of kind of following somebody online, seeing what they're talking about, and engaging with them. And it's something I encourage people to do because it's a great way, because sometimes you don't always get what people are talking about online. Sometimes it doesn't show up in your feed. I believe only about 20% of your connections content shows up in your feed, which is terrible. So clicking the bell next to their profile is a sort of a more effective way of doing that. And that's how I build a relationship. And by the third or fourth time I've commented in their post, if I want that person to become a client, then I reach out to them with a video or a voice note. But only business owners are really my client. Not again a salesperson, but really it's business owners. So a lot of my community aren't business owners, just everyday people working nine to five. So I don't reach out and sell to them, but I still give them value. I will still wish them happy birthday with a voice note or a video. I will still congratulate them if they do a really good post. So today, someone who's not a client or a potential client, um, she's got 2.3 million views on TikTok. And she did a post today to say, I have made no money in 2024. And I reached out to her by voice note to go, whoa, that is gutsy. I respect you for saying that. Everybody thinks you're smashing it. And you just done a post saying you've earned no money in 2024. Whoa, I love that because it's honest and it's real, and so many people on LinkedIn feel the need to brag and exaggerate, and you've just gone the opposite direction. And I love that. Sorry, I'm off on a slight tangent there, but I just had to mention that because it happened today.
SPEAKER_05Okay, but I I but I I want to I want to counter this and play devil's advocate. I mean, as a newbie or someone who's not very prolific with uh using digital, what I heard you say overwhelmed me. Right? That seemed like a lot. So, how do you manage the time to do those things? Because you can't do that for every single person. So I just want to ask you that.
SPEAKER_0210 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes over lunch, five or 10 minutes in the evening is manageable for most people. I would never say spend one hour, two hours a day. I mean, yes, at my level I can do that, but the beginning, always do things in small steps, build a confidence and then grow. That's the easiest way to do anything.
SPEAKER_00And I think we have more time on our hands than we think they we do. Uh, when I started on LinkedIn, I sort of pivoted all of my social media activity that used to be non-productive scroll time and made it into intentional relationship building time on my chosen platform. And so, you know, that's like Jana said it earlier. I'm at the microwave standing for two minutes. I used to zone out and scroll Instagram, and now I scroll on LinkedIn because that's where my people are. Um, but I totally hear what you're saying, Bobby, in terms of that approach does feel a little bit overwhelming. So I'm going to offer, y'all will notice a thread through this um live that my approach is definitely more casual than most people. Um, and I like to share that because it has worked for me. I do a tremendous amount of business um through LinkedIn. I have built a sizable um community there. So, you know, there are different avenues for everyone. Um, I do want to challenge the word tactic, just because I would like to not look at it as a tactic. I'm I'm big on um on the words that we say matter. And so I don't want to, we're building relationships. We're human beings. We're not like, it's not an aggressive trying to weasel our way into anybody's life, right? We're just trying to make friends. So my strategy for commenting has always been since my very beginning baby days on LinkedIn, and I finally realized that comments are the currency that drives the impressions on the algorithm. So I was able to get out of that mindset where I was like, oh gosh, why would I comment on Bobby's post? He doesn't even know me, and say, you know what, I'm doing Bobby a favor by leaving a comment on this because my comment is going to allow more of his network to see that post and some of my network to see that post. And it's going to continue the distribution even further. Um, so my approach to those comments is that I am going to talk to every person, even if it's a second degree connection, like a friend of a friend, somebody I don't know yet, as if they're my new best friend. If I'm genuinely excited for them, I'm going to express excitement in that meaningful comment that has more than 12 words because I want it to be meaningful. Not because I want it to have more than 12 words for the algorithm, but because I want it to stick out in that person's brain. Um, if I am expressing sorrow or gratitude for something someone shared, I'm going to do that in a meaningful way, whether I know them or not. And then to the person who said it's hard to send personalized requests, your um security settings are such that it just says LinkedIn user. So I can't identify you by name and I'm sorry, but um I don't ever and haven't ever sent personalized connection requests unless I am connecting for a very specific reason. Hey, we worked together 10 years ago, or hey, Bobby, Niraj said that we needed to connect, or like if there's a very specific thread that I want to call back to, um, then I put that in a personalized connection request. Otherwise, I'm leaving a meaningful comment that's going to stick in their brain and I'm sending that person a connection request right after so that I am a familiar and friendly face at that point, not someone that is a complete stranger sending a cold connection request. Um the other connection requests I send are to people who follow me but did not ask to connect, or people who are second-degree connections who are commenting on my content. So again, I'm a familiar, friendly face to them. I'm not a stranger that's scary and sending a blank connection request. So I do not believe firmly that you have to have a personalized connection request. I think it's great. Um, I think going that extra step like Niraj does with sending the voice note after the fact is incredible and goes a long way towards building a relationship. Um, but it definitely is not a absolutely necessary to be successful thing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, I think all the different, I mean, first off, let me let me counter with the idea of you know words and tactics. I mean, tactics are related to strategy. So you call them tactics or actions or plans or things you do. I mean, that's what usually I use the word tactics as an as an action of strategy, but uh it's just like networking. People don't like the word networking. Okay, cultivate relationships, like you know, make connections, like whatever it is, just just do the stuff that we think is gonna help you. And everything we're everything we do is an asset, right? I mean, posting content is an asset to our brand. Having a clear LinkedIn profile so that people, when you send a credential request without a personal message, they quickly see it. Oh, okay, yeah, Bobby helps me with TEDx Talks. Great. Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna connect to this guy. So that's totally fine. And I think also it's interesting that we all do different things. Like I think what Mirage is doing, I don't actually do that either. I I am my my my my tactic or action is I do comments or I do DMs with people, and so I do comments on people's posts, and if it gets to something where I really have a conversation publicly, I'll say, hey, let's why don't we do a DM conversation? And then I get to know them better, and then I'll invite them potentially to connect with me. And so that's kind of what I do. But again, it's a it's a means to an end to build a relationship and whatnot. I'm also a little bit more mindful because I have a lot of connections that uh uh I've I've kind of maxed on my connections, so it's like, okay, how do I, how do I? And that's actually a mistake. Funny story, tomorrow I'm gonna do a lot uh an audio room on uh on failures. And one of the big failures I did back in early as LinkedIn was I connect with every single person, and I was mass connecting uh like you know five, six years ago and just end up having to get rid of a lot of people that you know weren't active accounts or weren't really in front of my target audience, and that was a mistake I made. So I'm trying to change that. Now I'm very mindful of who I connect with. And yes, I think people that you really like, you know, if I have an opportunity to meet Bill Gates at a at a party and then he says, hey, it connects and like it. Hey, I will send a personal message, I will comment on stuff, like I will do whatever I can to get there. So I want to actually mention one thing is one of my one of my best tactics actually is audio rooms. And the reason I like audio rooms is because having done them on Clubhouse and having done Twitter space on Twitter, I find that similar to what Nirash talks about with voice notes, when people see your authentic audible voice and they say, Oh, it's Bobby, he's just a regular dude talking like the way he is right now, they kind of want to uh they're they're pretty open to it. So when I have an audio room, what happens is we bring them on stage and now you're having this two-way conversation with somebody and they hear you, they see your face in the profile, and that's why I do two audio rooms per week because I find that it's a great way to have a conversation, and then uh when I follow up with them, it's actually a far, far more fruitful dialogue. There's something really powerful about audio rooms than I mean, I'm a video guy, you know, I do live streams and do videos, but it's it's me publishing to everybody else with audio, they're there with you having a conversation. So I'm a huge lover of audio events, and I kind of encourage everyone in the in who's listening in to think about that and try those out because you know we have tactics that work for us, and we have tac uh we have uh actions, we try these actions. We have actions and things we use that work for us and some that don't, right? So I'm curious about that because you know, like uh are the things that you that you that you do and other things that you don't typically do. I mean, when it comes to your relationship building on video.
SPEAKER_00So I love and Niraj and I actually formed our relationship, and I think Bobby, that's how we met too, is on Clubhouse. So we are huge fans of the social audio. Um Niraj and I hung out almost daily uh for a couple hours a day um back in like early part of 2021. Um and our mutual friend Liam Darmodi said back then that social audio was the gasoline on the fire that our LinkedIn relationship started, right? So you might have been already connected to these people, but being able to have a two-way dialogue and hear the voice and the inflection and all of that was so powerful and just really, really dug those relationships a million miles deeper than they ever would have been had they stayed surface level. Um, so no matter what um path you take, getting the relationships offline in some way, whether it's social audio or video or a Zoom call or a phone call, an old fashioned phone call, it's so important to deepen those relationships. I think that it really does matter. I regretfully do not utilize them as much anymore. Um, as you can see, I'm in like an actual um off. I no longer work from home. I just simply do not have as much time in my day as I did in those earlier days of the pandemic. So I try to pop in when I can. Our friend Andy Foote leads the social club every once in a while. Liam actually has a LinkedIn block party going right now with Ashley BetQLR that they I butchered that name, Quayar, that they recently started hosting. So I pop in when I can, but it's not an intentional part of my strategy like so many other things are.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, I totally get that. And I just want to mention that too. Like, you know, on Clubhouse, I met all these people by running LinkedIn Mastery. I met Leah Turner, Andy Foote, John Espurian, uh, Joel Laujee. All these people came into the rooms and you guys as well. And that was a huge start of my community building on LinkedIn. So I think that's been a huge part of it. That's actually how the Thought League Brand Club started. We started up there and grew to like 37,000 followers. Now we have this membership community. This live stream is brought to you by the Thought Leisure Brand Club. It's a membership community, like the other ones you see out there, but basically you be part of like-minded people. There's trainings, there's great, great people that are there. We have a training every Thursday at 4 p.m. You can join us and see what it's all about. So make sure you check that out. And yeah, I one of the things I want to talk about is, you know, let's start with uh from a let's start with personal branding. Okay. I mean, you know, relationship building is a core of your personal brand. And I kind of want to get uh a sense from you guys. Start with you, Neraj, you know, you know why personal brand is so important and how relationship building is uh fostering that personal brand.
SPEAKER_02Well, somebody in the chat just brought up something I was about to say. People don't buy from companies, they buy from people representing those companies, and that's so true. And in my industry, I I work in two industries. I'm a sales trainer because I've worked in sales my entire life, and I'm a LinkedIn trainer because I'm a LinkedIn top voice. I visit LinkedIn HQ very regularly in Dublin and Europe, and I talk to people there and I teach people how to use LinkedIn. And now, as we all know, in the last year, every man and his dog and his friends are a LinkedIn coach or LinkedIn expert. Every marketing person is a LinkedIn, everybody's trying to offer LinkedIn in some way. And I would say about 10 to 20% of those people are very good at their jobs. The rest of them are what I call chancers. Um, because I know they're chancers because between a month or to six months after they post it, they're crushing it and they're turning away business, they approach me privately saying, Yeah, I'm out of curiosity, how much do you charge for coaching? I know what we charge, but what do you charge? Ask me questions that nobody in their right mind who is successful would ever ask. Um, and that's how I know they're chancing it. So I say, look at what a lot of people in your industry are doing and don't be afraid of going in a completely different direction. So most LinkedIn people will teach the same thing optimizing profile, how to write content. What I focus on more is sales and selling, because most people don't do that. When it comes to sales training, most sales trainers are often quite passive aggressive and they focus on the sale, sale, sale, sale. What I focus on in sales is mindset, vision boards, routines, habits, emotional mastery. Because if you can't get that right in sales, nothing else matters. But again, none of my competition are doing this. So I really recommend building a personal brand by looking very closely at your industry and going in a different direction to other people. I am not the best on LinkedIn, I'm certainly not the best, even the top 10 on LinkedIn, not even close. But I get the work because I'm different and I stand out. And that's what I always encourage people to do.
SPEAKER_00Same. I could just I could just leave it at that. But um, but yeah, I mean, like I said, I can't mention what I do for a living, but hopefully you guys are connecting with me. I'm really excited to meet her. Um you don't have to follow, we can connect, we can have a two-way friendship. But anyway, the people who do what I do are a dime a dozen on LinkedIn, unfortunately. And a lot of them, um, I'm gonna be less kind than Nirage. He said 10 to 20% of the LinkedIn trainers were doing a good job. I think maybe three percent of the folks who do what I do um are doing an okay job at LinkedIn. And so it's just so powerful if you show up um in a way that is slightly different and um unique and uh true to who you are. So don't I always sit in your Raj and I always joke about the use of emojis in a post. I had somebody tell me years ago that um they didn't feel like that was appropriate. It was probably four or five years ago, and they said, Ariel, I love what you're doing on LinkedIn, but I just wouldn't, you know, use emojis on a professional platform. And and respectfully, if somebody's turned off by emojis, there's gonna be a thousand other things about my personality they don't like. So it's really great that they know that up front. Um, and but using emojis on LinkedIn does not make you successful. I use emojis because that's who I am. If you text me, if you DM me, if you email me on my professional email address, you're gonna get emojis. That's who I am. Um, so anyway, just your personal brand should be like holding up a mirror and showing up on social media exactly the way you show up online and in person. Um, it shouldn't be something that you have to craft or really take a lot of energy into forming, it should just be exactly who you are.
SPEAKER_02So uh sorry, go ahead, Bobby. No, no, please. Somebody made a Jim Grohn quote earlier. I'm gonna do another Jim Rowland quote, success leaves clues. Find successful people who are doing well and learn from them. I started using emojis two years ago because of Ariel. And again, no other guys were using it. You know, I saw a few women, I didn't see any men use this. And I saw Ariel do it, and I thought I really like that. I didn't use the same emojis as her, mine are slightly different, but I used them and it made a difference. Again, it helps you stand out. And look at what successful people are doing. Don't copy them, but be inspired by them. Um, with Ariel, she's so down-to-earth and approachable. It just is like it almost comes naturally to her, even though it may not come naturally in real life, it just comes across so easily. And you know, be inspired by people who are successful, don't be jealous ever, and don't compare yourself to other people, but be inspired by them on LinkedIn and think that's what I'd like to be like. Not exactly like, but in the sense of being inspired by them. And I do that a lot. When I see people more successful than me, I don't go, they got lucky. You know, I never say that. I'm like, that's fantastic. How do they do that? That's brilliant. You know, be inspired by people who are doing well.
SPEAKER_05That's a great point about the emojis. I I think I started doing emojis because I saw someone do a post. Oh, those are good, those are kind of fun, and I'm a fun guy. Maybe I should be doing these. And I I don't know who it was, but I can imagine being aerial and then just saying, oh, yeah, I guess or maybe Leah Turner or something like that. Like I do Alex to do this. So I do them now all the time, almost all the time. I sometimes rarely do it without them. So in fact, I feel compelled to put an emoji. I want to I want to add one thing about the personal branding, which is look, personal branding is very often used as a means to stand out, which is great. The thing that I always advocate for personal branding is that if you do the deep dive work for personal branding, which is a little bit of work in deep dive work, um, you get more clarity and focus and direction. So now so when I know who I am and how people like me and what want to experience me, then when I put comments, when I reach out to people, when I'm engaging in conversations, it's much more focused and purposeful and meaningful than warning all over the place. And so I think that's one of the reasons why personal writing is so important when it comes to comes to doing that. And uh so yeah, I think that that's a that's a great piece. You know, this has been great. A lot of people have been commenting from all over the world, which is great. We we do appreciate it. Um let's talk a bit about the networking piece to you now as well. So I mean, you know, if you're trying to network on LinkedIn or other digital platforms, I mean, is there any sort of particular strategy that you think is really important for folks to use that we we haven't talked about? Because I feel we've talked a little about a lot of stuff. So is there anything we haven't mentioned yet?
SPEAKER_02When it comes to networking, I like networking because it's not digital. Uh, I don't enjoy online networking events. I've tried them, it's just not for me. I'd rather drive and see people face to face, shake their hand, look them in the eye. And a lot of people pitch networking events or even worse, they go, Hi, what do you do as soon as you meet them? And I feel often judged when people ask that. And I know when I used to ask that question, people felt judged. So when I go to a networking event, I always say, So what brought you here today? It's a really nice, open question, not offensive, what brought you here today? And I listen to what they say. And second of all, I always ask them, who are you interested in meeting? And if I like the person, I'll introduce them to somebody they're looking to meet, or I'll say to the organizers, who in this sector do you know they could meet? And that's really the key to networking events. It's asking questions, it's listening. If you're you're an introvert, especially if you're an introvert, and my daughter's an introvert, she hates networking events. And I said to her, sweetheart, just ask questions and listen. You don't say anything at all. And that's what she does. She asks questions and she listens. People think she's fascinating. She barely says a word because she's an introvert, she doesn't want to speak. Um, she's happy just sitting in the back of the room and not talking to anybody. But when you ask questions and listen, you come across very well at networking events. You don't have to be the loudest person in the room, you don't have to be the best storyteller, you don't have to walk in like a peacock saying, Hey, look at me. Walk into a room and say, Hey, how can I help you? It's just it makes networking much more enjoyable.
SPEAKER_05You just have to be be interested versus being interesting. If you be interested, you become far more interesting. So I think that's an important piece to remember. Uh uh, Eric, any thoughts on this? Actually, before you do before you do that, let me add, I just thought of something too. You're Raj made a great, great point. So you meet people in live network events and now we transfer them into digital, right? We get their business card, we get their emails, we connect them on LinkedIn. So now, you know, what do you guys do? Like, how do you transition from the in-person to the digital and then maintain that connection, Arrow? Maybe you can talk about that.
SPEAKER_00It all harkens back to consistency, whether that's consistency, maintaining a DM back and forth if they're not someone who's engaged on the feed or consistency in the comments, whether you're commenting on their post or they're commenting on yours, just maintaining that visibility where you're going to remain top of mind for that person is so important. And I think that taking in-person relationships online makes it all the more easier.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, guys. You know, I think we're coming to the end of our time here. I'd love for I want to thank everyone for being here. Keep sharing comments, keep tagging us. You can share this live stream, it's public on your profiles. You can reshare with folks and let folks put know what's all about. Um, Niraj, uh, how how can people follow you? How can we support you? Let us know what you're up to.
SPEAKER_02Uh, if you really want to support me, yeah, support this guy, please. We love this guy.
SPEAKER_03Come on.
SPEAKER_02If you want to support me, go to YouTube, type in everybody works in sales, and press subscribe. I've just relaunched my YouTube channel. I spent a lot of money on it, and it's really hard getting subscribers. On LinkedIn, it's easy getting followers, but on YouTube it's hard. And just to let you all know, you click subscribe on YouTube, you don't go into my sales panel, you don't go into my email system, you don't get the anything, you will just get value by videos every week. And that's my goal at the moment. Or follow me on LinkedIn. Um, I like to get personalized requests only because I like to know how I got to know somebody. And uh and when I send requests to people again at a networking event, I will always say hi, we met at this networking event and you mentioned dot dot dot. I do that for two reasons. A, it helps me keep account of how I know somebody, but also it shows somebody I was listening, and it's really important people know I listen because I work in sales and salespeople are notorious for not listening. So again, try and do the opposite of everybody else.
SPEAKER_05I love that. Ariel, how about you?
SPEAKER_00I am on LinkedIn in an appropriate amount of time. So the unicorn is not in my name on LinkedIn, so it's just Ariel Lee. The unicorn is in my headline, would love to connect with everybody. I'm gonna go back through my recent followers just in case there was anybody who didn't know that they had to click more and then connect um so that I can reach out to you. But I appreciate everybody being here. Hope you found it valuable. Bobby, thank you for hosting. As always, it's been a pleasure. Hope you guys have a great rest of your day.
SPEAKER_05Thanks, everybody. So if you like this live stream, share with the world. Thanks to Ariel, thanks to Nero, thanks to Janite, follow these people. Thanks, everybody. Have a wonderful, wonderful week, and we'll see you guys soon. Thanks, thank you, Bobby.
SPEAKER_04Before we wrap, one quick thing. If this episode sparks something for you, imagine what it does in a room. Bring these ideas to stage and boardrooms is what I do, and everything lives on one page, rayon.com slash podcast. Book me for your next event or join my TW Club community. One page, rayon.com slash podcast. That's it for this episode. If it gave you one useful idea, share it with someone who needs it and follow the show so the next one finds you. I'll see you next time on the power of connection.