DEIA:Better Together - For Them, By Them: Student-Centered Engagement

In this episode of DEIA: Better Together, we’re exploring the importance of ensuring that students are a part of the planning process as we build programs and initiatives designed to benefit and support them, and the impact of centering student voice and facilitating opportunities for students to lead the work.

Co-Host Camille Jones, DEIA Specialist is joined by Lyn Fiscus, Extracurricular Specialist with the Student Activities & Engagement Coordinator program (SAEC), and Alix Tate, School Counseling Coordinator for the College Achievement & Multicultural Program for Unique Students (CAMPUS), to discuss how LCPS is centering student voices within classroom learning communities, school culture, and dynamic instruction.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It's your co-hosts, Anthony, Camille, and Everett. Welcome and thank you for joining us for another episode of DEIA Better Together. Thank you for joining us for DEIA Better Together. My name is Camille Jones. It's another beautiful day at LCPS, and today we're going to talk about the importance of including students and the design of programs built for them. Before we dive into our main topic, we're going to have an appetizer, Alphabet Soup. Today's letter is J. So our two guests today are Lynn Fiskis and Alex Tate. We're going to start with Lynn. What is a word starting with the letter J that resonates with you and connects to equity work?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

I wanted to go with join. Joining, I think it is so important for every student to find something that they can join and express their voice in, right? Their little niche that that makes them feel welcome and belong, that like they belong to the school community. So join would be my word.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I love that. That's so fitting for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I went with joy because I think that our students deserve to feel joy during the day. And I think that they work hard and they're doing lots of things. And I think it's important for all of us that we take time and are intentional about making space for joy.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Those are two excellent J words. You guys are right on it. I chose justice. So our student groups that we work with use the acronym Jedi. And the J stands for justice. And especially when you're working with students, they have such a strong sense of what is right and what should be and what is fair. And I think a lot of times as adults, we get so caught up in, well, this is how it's always been, and this is how it has to be. And here are all these limitations, but kids are just like, well, this is what's right. And I think a lot of times we need to lean more into that sense of like, well, just because something is, doesn't mean that we have to be at peace with that and we should fight for everybody to have that same, you know, sense of love and belonging that our kids have. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing your J words for appetizer. Uh, our main topic today for today's podcast is for them, by them, student-centered engagement. How can we ensure that students are a part of the planning process as we build programs and initiatives designed to benefit and support them in what is the impact of centering student voice and facilitating opportunities for students to lead in the work? As I mentioned earlier, our guests today are going to offer some insight into this topic. And we have Lynn Fiskis, who is the extracurricular specialist with the Student Activities and Engagement Coordinator Program. Our second guest is Alex Tate, the School Counseling Coordinator for Campus, or the College Achievement and Multicultural Program for Unique Students. Thank you, both of our guests, for joining us today. I'm really, really excited to have you guys here for this conversation. Um, Lynn, we're gonna start with you. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about your background in education and your current role in LCBS?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Um I've been in education for a long time. I started teaching in 1983 and um got into student activities right away. Uh in fact, the principal who hired me was like, well, what else can you do besides teach? You know, so uh my um third year of teaching, I started teaching leadership and uh worked with the student council and that got me involved right away with because my school was the state's student council secretary for the state association, got me involved right away with some really quality individuals at the state level. And then I got involved in National Student Council and um just you know just started getting more and more involved. And I developed as an educator um by being the sponsor or being the teacher, right? And I learned so much more than what I I mean, I was in a leadership class in high school, but being the the person who was teaching the class, I learned a lot, right? And um, at some point I was writing a monthly column for the Leadership for Student Activities magazine, which was published by the National Association of Secondary School Principals. And I called to ask for an extension on my deadline, and the editor said um that she was retiring. And I thought, journalism, which was my I was teaching journalism, leadership, one job, right? So I moved here to Virginia and I edited that magazine for 12 years and just continued to learn and grow and do more and more with student activities and leadership development. So um that's there's more, but that's kind of the short version of things. But um, I've been involved in student activities and leadership development for all these years for over 40 years.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Wow, that's incredible. Um Alex, can you tell us a little bit about your background?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah, so this is my 11th year in public education. My have always served in Virginia public schools in the role as a school counselor. Um, my background is in being a school counselor, and then I was a director of school counseling at a high school in Virginia. And then this is my third school year serving in this role um as the campus coordinator. Um I am very passionate about student voice. I think I remember my own experience in high school and my experience working in schools, I think a lot is done to our students rather than with them. Um and I think that it's very important that we center their voice um and make sure that they are active parts of their educational experience. Um so that's the lens that I've always had, whether it's working directly in the schools or working in an administrative role. I've always tried, of course, to keep the students and their voice and what they would want at the center.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

So and I forgot to mention that this is my fourth year and then just third. I eventually switched back to teaching from the editing job. So I taught in Fairbacks for seven years, and this is my fourth year in lab. Yeah. And I love what you said about um the the students, and maybe I'm jumping ahead, but the the phrase um nothing for us for us without us is something that I like to live by. Yeah, it's important.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, the the inspiration for the title behind this episode was like a clothing company that was really big when I was a kid was called Fulu, and it was for us by us. And so the idea that you are involving people in whatever it is that's being made for them instead of presuming that you know what's best for them or you know what they might want or how they feel, um, you know, that really makes for a more authentic experience. And you know, as you guys know, there's one more buy-in and all that good stuff, which we'll we'll get into. Um thank you both for sharing your background. I'm really excited to see how that's um your different experiences are gonna come into the conversation. So we're gonna start with a working definition for student voice. Um, this is one that we've used in a couple different PDs and resources that we um use with educators across the county. So, our definition of student voice is that it is the process of students sharing their values, opinions, beliefs, experiences, interests, and perspectives that support classroom learning communities, school culture, and instruction. And a really important thing to note is that student voice isn't just the feedback process of students being able to actually use their voice, it's what happens afterwards, the change that happens, the the input that is valued, you know, when they um when they are asked to come to the table and to raise their voice. So with that definition in mind, um Lynn, I want to start with you and um ask you to talk a little bit about how student voice and choice has come into your experience, um, specifically within your role in LCPS.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

I have the opportunity to work with lots of different student groups um providing you know resources and support training. And I work with um one group that it's called the Presidents and Officers. And it's the student council and class council presidents and officers from all the high schools. We call it Pando for sure. They have presidents and officers. Um and they uh they come together and they talk about all kinds of issues in the district and they they share ideas for what their student councils and their class councils can do to help build positive school culture and um sponsor activities for the for the students in their school. So that's one thing. Um I've also been working with the superintendent's advisory student advisory committee, which is an amazing group of people that that um each school can send four students to participate in this monthly thing where they identify the issues in the school district and then they come up with a plan for dealing with them. And I think it's amazing, and and you know, you guys have all seen them in action, that it's amazing to hear the ideas and the fresh perspectives that the students bring to things. And it's something I have lived by for all these years since I started doing student activities, is people support what they create. So if they have a voice in making something happen, they're gonna be supportive of it. And if they don't have any voice in it, then they're likely, you know, it's gonna be forced on them or or maybe they grudgingly accept it. But it's not like wholehearted passion, like I am in it in this, because it's, you know, I had a voice in it. Somebody asked me what I thought, and I was able to have a perspective on it. And and I think involving all the different kinds of students that we have is is so important because everybody brings their lived experience to the table. And, you know, my experience is going to be different than yours, and or yours or yours. And so we come to better solutions by involving all the different perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I like what you said also about um, I mean, the both of the programs that you mentioned involve students from all across the county. And a lot of times you have students that um, if they're high schools or middle schools or what have you are close to each other, then they get to interact in those settings or in certain sports settings, but it's not always students from all over are bringing their perspectives and saying what works at their school and what they've seen and what they care about, what's important to them. So that's always great to see um just such a wide diversity of experience at our kids.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

One of the goals for the Pando group is to build those connections between schools so that you know, so that they have a network of other students in the district. And their favorite part, honestly, is hearing the ideas of what happens at the other schools.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Alex, I didn't mean to cut you off. What were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Oh no, I just was trying that the student advisory committee is always one of my favorite days of work because I just love to hear their ideas and the energy of the room. It's an amazing um thing that you do for our students. Um I have the campus student ambassador meetings. So we host those throughout the year. Um and ours also echo the same. They love to come together with other high schools and hear what they're doing. We used to meet twice a year, but they asked for more meetings. Actually, they come like last our last meeting, we had over 50 on a student holiday. Um, so they come ready and they're very active and they're very engaged. Um, and we love to give them a platform. I always tell students campus is not my program, it's your program. Um, and I genuinely mean that, whether it's field back feet feedback about um the in-class experience in terms of the lessons, the curriculums, the support they're getting, or our field trips, our college field trips are a very big deal. So, where do they want to go? We center our field trips around where they're asking to go. Um, so that again, they're they're buying into it and it's it's a program for them that's been created by them.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

We have one other opportunity that's unique that's allowed for students to share and network and and and all of that. Um, are you familiar with the WILD Student Leadership Conference? Wild stands for We're Intentional About Leadership Development. And this this was when I was hired four years ago, my position was brand new, and that was one of the things I was charged with was having a leadership conference for our students. So it happens once a year, and um all of the high schools are allowed to send 20 to 40 student leaders. Oh wow. And the we have a we bring in a professional motivational speaker this year. Um, it's Dr. Julia Garcia, who's uh author of the Five Habits of Hope, which I think is kind of needed right now. Um and and then all the breakout sessions are student-led. So students from nine to eleven can can attend the conference, and each school is their the student activities and engagement coordinator is charged with picking students who represent the diversity of their school and the diversity of the organizations in the school. So it's not just like all the student council kids, you know, they we want all the clubs, and um so nine through 11 can attend, and then seniors can only come if they present. So they're the workshop presenters, the breakout presenters, and we have lots of them that want to be a part of it because now this is the fourth year, it's gonna be January 23rd this year, and it'll be at Independence High School. And I love it because it one, we're investing in the leadership development of our kids. And I really encourage the SACs to get like freshmen and sophomores to come because then we can, you know, build their leadership um strengths over the years, and then the seniors get a chance to give back what have they learned as as they have developed their leadership skills in the district. So it's it's my favorite day of the year. Um, but it's always a good, good experience.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

And I'm sure that's a program where you have schools that have like way, way more kids showing interest than can actually go to the event itself because want that leadership opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

One of our schools um last year, their workshop, their break breakout presenter applications, they had like five or six co-presenters for the workshops because it was the seniors and they wanted to come and they could only come if they were a workshop presenter. So we had multiple presenters for each one from that school. So that was fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

With um campus, I wanted to ask about the age range of students that it serves. I know usually when people think about college, they think about like juniors and seniors more specifically, but what kind of students do you work with? And then are there opportunities for even like the freshmen or younger to have their voice elevated?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, that's a great question. So they the program serves students in grades nine through 12. And we'll take a student ambassador from any grade because your experience as a freshman is just as important as if you've been in it for four years. Um, but yeah, so the program is throughout the entire time when you're in when you're in high school. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

And are the freshmen just as um eager to share their absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And the student ambassadors have a role too in even in full how to facilitate feedback from their class and how to share that out and that so that they feel like they have a voice, even if they maybe aren't a student ambassador. I also am not good at saying no, and I like I think we have over a hundred student ambassadors just because of like because some of them maybe they can't all make the first meeting, but that so we want to make sure. So I'm very much like, if you want to do this and you want your voice to be heard, we will have a seat at the table for you. Um, and also they can participate virtually if they don't have a ride or anything. So we don't want that to be um any sort of barrier. So um yeah, and then also when I go, I visit every class. I've gone to all the classes so far. We have 49 classes across the 19 high schools, which include Rovi and North Star, of course. Um, I go and visit and I talk with the students, um, and I always tell them they can tell me any sort of feedback, and then they'll raise their hand and ask questions or share things. So I don't just want it to be where they feel like they only have a voice if they're a student master. Um, I want them to know that they can always have a voice. So that's another way that we we get their feedback.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

There's a lot of different like accessibility and choice, even in the feedback, like choice in making the choices.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yes, yes, yes. I think choice is important.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

So moving right into our kind of meat of the discussion, how do we strike a balance between allowing our students to lead and utilizing our knowledge and our experiences to help guide them?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

It's kind of a big this yeah, this is a big focus for me. Um, because I see too many times where there's a student council, for example, where the the advisor is directing things and the students are just doing what the advisor tells them to do, right? And and I I emphasize starting in the summer and the before school even starts with your student council or whatever group you have, um and have the students set goals. Actually, we do a vision first, a vision of the perfect high school. You know, if if John Champ High School were the perfect place to go to school, what would it be like? And they you know, brainstorm all the things and then they come up with a statement of the vision for their school. And then let's pick five or six goals that will move us in the direction of achieving that vision. Okay. And this goes back to what I said, people support what they create. But if the students understand that they're working towards creating this perfect high school out of for their school, they're gonna work really hard to make it happen and they're gonna they're gonna set their goals and they're gonna work to achieve them. And I I really believe that they shouldn't do any activities if it doesn't support one of the goals. And um this this really gets a lot of buy-in from the students, and then the advisor then takes a backseat and and puts the students forward ideally. And this is what I want to see, and this is what I've been working towards you know, getting um that the students take the lead, they actually do the things to make their goals happen, you know. So, like let's say they want to have a a pep rally, um, you know, a lot of people think, oh, well, that's just fluff and it's it's you know, distracts from from academics. It doesn't, it helps create a really positive climate if you work it right. And have the students lead the pep rally, have the students plan the activities and not just random, oh, this will be fun to do, but like why are we doing this cheer or why are we doing this activity to help build class identity, to help students feel like they belong, you know, they have a place in the school. Those those um class competitions serve a purpose, they help mold the class together to make people feel like they they have a place and they belong. That's just one example. But if the students actually do the work and the advisor is there to guide and ask questions and to maybe some nudges or some reminders and things, but let the students do the work.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, I think similar to that, we um last admission cycle for campus, we had and we had our campus students lead the presentations for our rising ninth graders, which I think was really important. You don't want to hear from me, you know, like those all day long. Um and I think part of that, so we saw our applications increase by over 300%. I think huge because I think students are seeing themselves. They first of all, when we went back and it was let's say a student from a certain high school went back to the middle school that they had, that just that was such a beautiful thing. They were saying hi to their teachers, they were saying hi. And when students can see themselves not only in an LCPS student, but I see myself and you not that long ago were sitting here as an eighth grade student. Yeah. And for them to hear from a student, this has been my experience, I think makes it relatable and relevant for them. Um, even something like that, like something as simple as like I can present as an adult, or we can have our students who are if they're what you know, they love to go back and serve in that capacity.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Um and present the exact same information, but coming from a different messenger.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Exactly. It makes a difference, I think, in piquing students' interest in the program. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

And I think if it it as educators, if we scaffold their experience so that they're prepared to lead, right? You don't just throw them to the wolves and let them, you know, run a meeting with no preparation. Right. So, you know, meet with them ahead of time, teach them, go over like the wild uh presentations. I've just been, I sent all the students who applied. I have over 40 applications for January's um workshops. I sent they all provided the name of a faculty advisor who um would be able to support them in their effort, right? So I sent emails to all those faculty people asking them, you know, is this person do you think they can do a quality thing? And will you help them prepare so that they're ready to do it? And they and they all, you know, they all say yes. So that scaffolding is really important.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah for high high support.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah. So that the student has a successful experience, you know? They can they have all their ideas that they want to share, but let's help them be prepared to do it in a way that's gonna make them succeed.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah. And we might be providing some structure. But they're like you said, it's them leading. So yeah, up to the people.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

And I think every experience we can put students in that they do something like that just helps them grow their own confidence. So then they take the next thing with more confidence.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah. Do you find that the more that you kind of interact with um student voice in an intentional way, you learn how to balance those nudges when they're more um, you know, keeping students on track versus, well, this is what I think is best, or you know, this is what I, you know, this is what research is saying, or this is what I know your parents might like. You know, how do you kind of strike that balance?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I don't know if that's a hot take because I think I'm talking with, and I'm very, trust me, I'm reading research all day. Every day I'm always open a journal article and study crash. So I I love research, but I think a student is right here, right now in front of me where maybe that research was done a year or two ago. I mean, I was a teenager, but none of us, no adults working in a school system were teenagers in 2025. Yeah at the end of the day. They have that, teenagers have that leg up on us. Like we don't have that experience. So um when we talk about that, I I still will always prioritize what a student is sharing with me. Um and and what their lived experience is. And I'll be honest, I maybe because I have always been lucky to work with amazing students. I haven't had where there's been a conflict with research or the because in the back of my head, I'm like, you're right, that's exactly what research says. Like in my head, I'm like, they they know what the kids need. Um and same with parents, because I think parents and guardians know what their students need, I think, and I think students know what they need.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Um so yeah, I don't yeah, the experience factor I think is is important because you know, you're working with the students and you it there's a lot of intangible stuff that goes on, right? Um if you think about and every student isn't gonna be the same. You know, you take a student that's new, maybe one of your freshmen or sophomores that hasn't been involved, you're gonna you're gonna adjust your strategies to work with that student differently than you're gonna work with a senior who's got one leg out the door because they're ready to go to college, you know. So you you need to tweak your your strategies for motivating that that sort of burned out senior, maybe, or or coaching the the new person. Um there's a lot of different things that come into play with that. Um and I also think that sometimes it's okay to let them fail. And and I I think maybe people might disagree with that, but think about the times where you've messed up something. How much more did you learn from that than if everything went perfectly specifically? You know, now that being said, you have to look at lots of factors, you know, you're not gonna let a student fail at something if you know that or from knowing that student that that's just gonna devastate them, right? And you're not gonna just like throw them in the deep bed and let them sink.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Right, like it's not trial by fire.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

But I'm thinking of things like in student activities. I I had a student one time who was in charge of a lunchtime activity, and it was this game where um there's a there's a like a hand thing and it comes up and puts a pie in your face if if you you know knew the answer wrong or it's not, I don't even remember, but she forgot to get the whipped cream right now. I could have run out to the store and gotten the whipped cream and bailed her out and made sure that that lunchtime activity happened. But I didn't do it because I thought in the scheme of things, this little lunchtime game, it's not a big deal if that doesn't happen. But you know what? That student, the rest of the year, she was on it. She had every single thing that she needed to have for all the things that she was in charge of because she learned from that minor failure. Now, if it's a student who's in charge of the homecoming parade, I'm not letting the homecoming parade fail.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

There are scales to this.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah. So so I think you know, failure is an option. If you're you know a seasoned advisor, you kind of judge how how often or how much scaffolding you need to give people and sometimes maybe pull it back and let them let them learn from their mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

So my next question for you both is uh what benefits have you seen in utilizing student input or student feedback during your planning processes as you're developing new programs and different events, um, you know, within your different scopes.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Alex, your comment about none of us have been a you know, a teenager in 2025 is right on target for this question, right? Because we don't know what it's like to be them. And and especially having come through the pandemic, I I noticed that students are a lot different you know, post-pandemic than pre-pandemic. So, you know, and and we went through it with them, but from a different perspective, you know, so having their their ideas um and their current experience is so important. Um but prior to that, um when I was uh when I was actually still teaching, I was working with the student council that um they didn't like the way homecoming court um forced people into gender roles at the school that I was teaching at. And they wanted to do something different, and we tried for two or three years different tweaks on things to make sh, you know, to try to make it better that we did because the way it way it was structured were there were five senior boys and five senior girls, and they were paired up together to be on court together. And it in practice it ended up being mostly the students would vote for couples to be the on the court, right? In fact, we had a couple of times where there was there were students that weren't part of a couple that got in the top five and they're like, I'm not gonna do it, or I don't, you know, I'm not my friends with that guy, you know, whatever. That's interesting. So we kept trying to tweak it over the years, and then finally we just said we're doing away with it. And and it was because of the student input that we completely did away with homecoming court, but we replaced it with spirit court, and any student in the school could be nominated to be on spirit court, and it was based on their um on their participation in the spirit dress-up days during homecoming week. Oh, I love that. So they said we put QR codes all over the building, and people submitted photos, and it wasn't based on how many times you got nominated, it was based on the quality of your participation. So there was a committee that picked on Thursday of Spirit Week two students from each grade, and it could have could be two boys, two girls, boy, the girl, didn't matter. Two people that they thought did the best participation in Spirit Week. We announced them on Thursday afternoon, and then Friday was um class color day, so they came to school dressed in their class color outfits. Each grade level had a different color, right? And at the pep rally, we introduced the two for each grade and they paraded around the gym in their fancy, colorful outfits and everything. And then we used the phones, and the students voted right there at the pep rally. And by the end of the pep rally, we crowned one ruler to rule them all, right? So we just blew away the old paradigm of you know, couples being on spirit court, and that all was totally student driven. It came from the students and and they ended up being happy with the way it went. And by the way, it also made our spirit week participation skyrocket because everybody could see people really going all out. And and so yeah, we had we took we counted in the classes every morning how many people were dressed up, and we never have less than half of the students dressed up.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

So that buy-in, yeah, because they were part of the planning, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

And that just goes beyond the spirit week, I think, in terms of like the connection and liveliness of your school that week, I imagine, and the camaraderie that comes along with that. And it carries over beyond carrying. It carries over beyond, yeah, exactly. I love that. I always say I love working up here, but we don't have spirit weeks. So I love that people are like, what do you miss about the schools in like spirit weeks? Like, yeah, so yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Well, it helps build a positive climate. It does. People feel like they can belong. And and if you're intentional about it, which you know, I try to teach student leaders, like not everybody can, you know, run out and buy a costume, you know, plan some spirit days that are, you know, wear green, you know, or wear blue jeans, or your favorite, or you know, whatever ones that anybody can participate in. Um, and that helps also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Alex, I want to circle back to what you said about like experience trumping everything else, because I feel the same way. Like I I read so many great things while I was completing my grad degree, but then I would go to cite that source and it was like written in the 90s, written in the 80s. And I feel like it's so important for us to center what's going on right now, like to have a finger on the pulse of especially when it comes to college. Like things have changed so much. Um, and they change so quickly.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah, that's very true. Um, yeah, I I yeah, I think even just within a little over a decade and being in a school counselor emerging, yeah, I think so much that she. I mean, it can change year to year, especially if we're talking about if we are talking about college admissions, that definitely can change year to year. Um, yeah, so I I think it is very important to make sure that like when we zoom out, not talking about HCBS. We as an education system in America have a very archaic industrial model style where it's still the teacher talking at the center of the room to the kids. Like, why am I walking into a school and it looks exactly like when I went there in the 2000s? Cars don't look the same. They don't. The inside of a car does not look the same.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

You're completely right.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

But we have not on a large scale yet. Yes, there's pockets, and I don't mean, you know, doom and gloom, but I mean like model-wise, systems-wise. So because of that, I think student voice is even more important because how can we make sure that yes, we recognize there are faults inherently to the system. It it has not caught up um to where you are. As I heard the other day, I think it was 22nd century. I don't know if we can say that yet, but I already heard like 22nd century. Was it 22nd? I don't know, but it was it was something like we need to up it, like we need to get going. Um so I think I mean these are our future everything. Like when I look at the youth, I think you are who will be in charge of everything.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Um, and it is like Lynn said, this is about life, right? Schools, yes, we teach you, but how are we preparing you for life? And I think the example of the um the whipped cream example is a perfect example because within the confines, yes, like this is a safe place to make mistakes, to practice, to learn. Um, that you don't learn unless you're unless you're failing at making mistakes, right? Um but I think yeah. So I'm trying to think how that centers back to student voicemail. I just sometimes I don't can't split.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

No, that was a great I love that.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

That's yeah, I just yeah.

unknown 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

So looking forward and you know, keeping in mind that we don't really know how the educational landscape and the social landscape is going to continue to change and grow, um, what opportunities might exist to invite students to some new tables and some new decision-making spaces? Like where is student voice lacking?

SPEAKER_02 35:15

That's a great question. And I would say um school improvement efforts, the student voice is needed. And I love that our superintendent student advisory committee taps into the students and asks the students, we started out with a sort of similar to creating a vision. We started out with um what would LCPS be like if it was the perfect place to grow school?

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

And they brainstormed that. And then I had them go from there about talking about, well, okay, so how are our schools not meeting that vision of the perfect place? And what are the issues that you see in the schools? And that's how we came up with the the seven committees that the students are working on to come up with a plan for this is what we think would be would make it better. And that we've this is not the first year we've done this, and the and the um the presentations that they make in May are made to like all the higher level administration people in the district, and they're and they actually take the suggestions that the students come up with and try to improve if if they can't, you know, if they're practical to do. But definitely student student voice needs to be in there in the school improvement because what we think as grown-ups are is needed to improve things might not be what they think. But there's a program um called uh raising student voice and participation, RSVP, that um the Secondary School Principals Association put together. Yeah, so in full transparency, when I worked there, I I edited and helped make this program happen. Trained the first group of train the trainer people to do this, but it it does student summits where you have every student in the whole school in their different um smaller groups, you know, classrooms or however you want to structure it, asking them what's wrong with our school and what what's needed. And the really cool thing about it is that sometimes, and they they go through this whole process to come up with the things that they want to work on, but sometimes it's something really small, like we need a microwave in the cafeteria so we can eat our lunches, right? Yeah, and boom, the principal can take care of that right away and be responsive to the to the student needs, right? Um, but sometimes it's you know bigger, more serious things. But ask the students, that's what I say.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

And rather than like crossing your fingers that they'll fill out an email survey, you're doing it right there in person. In person happy, like tell us what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

And the this process uses um student facilitators that are trained in how to do the group discussions, and and the teachers just are there just to provide support, but the students lead the discussions and the kids are more willing to talk to each other, you know, and share what what their actual feelings are and their thoughts are. And it comes up, it you can come up with some really good um results if you if you just ask the students.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

I love that. Instead of, you know, we the adults have decided that this change would be good for the school. What do you guys think after the change has been implemented? Let them figure out what the change should be. I love that. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Yeah, I think I'm of course at one decision-making space table of campus. And I'll always make sure students are there. So I don't want to invite students to other parties where I'm not the head, you know, but I think students should have a voice at every table where a decision is made that impacts them. Every table. Yes. I think and looking at BOE, I think they I don't know if VBOE has student representation, but I because I think a lot of what we do and implement comes from BBOE, of course. But I think they need a, I think in Richmond they need a couple of students there. Um but yeah, I honestly, like you said, whether it's you know the microwave, the operational. I remember um being a part of the um student advisory committee and they they had amazing ideas for traffic and they so again, not just what's happening in the classroom, but traffic patterns or I was gonna say even for transportation or something. International, instructionally, every there's no aspect of it that I that I that I that is above a student at all because it it's them at the end of the day who it's who it's gonna have an impact on. Um so it it never hurts to ask. And just the very act of asking students their opinion makes them feel valued and seen and and that they matter, which at the end of the day we talk about belonging all of the time. But if I'm just making decisions in isolation and I'm not asking how that impacts you or asking your thought, right? We have to get we have to get away from that. That's not best for not only students who who don't have a choice in being here, right? They don't have a choice. Um, so I think the most autonomy and the most choice that we can give them, um, we do.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

That is like such a mic drop. I love that. Um, so what one kind of follow-up question that I had with that last question is when it comes to logistics, this is a problem that we run into a lot of like not being able to get all of our student leaders from across the county together in that space. The example that you mentioned, Lynn, is great if you have that happening within a school community of getting that feedback of those kids that are already right there. But when it comes to like an SAC or Student Jedi's or another group of students that is kind of scattered across, um, how do you find ways to bring them together and to kind of interact with each other organically to make those kinds of connections that help to raise their voice?

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Let me make sure I understand what you're asking. So the students, for example, the pando meetings that come together or the superintendent student advisory committee, we try to have them be representative of their schools. And especially with the superintendents group, we ask them to go back to their schools and like survey their peers and seek other people's opinions, not just their own. So I think that's one way, you know, because we have too many students to bring them all together. But if we use sort of the representative democracy idea where they represent their peers and and and we stress to them that they need to go out and seek other people's opinions and not just base it on their own opinions, I think that's one way that we do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, and for campus students specifically, for student bachelor's, we took away grade level prerequisites, grade prerequisites, attendance prerequisites because we want to hear from you if you're not coming to school and you're not performing well. Like we want to hear what's going on. So um we also yeah, we we want it to be representative of all students.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Well, and then that reminds me also is is when I do um workshops about school elections, I I ask the advisors to look at their elected students and ask them to see do those students represent your student's body? Or is it just one kind of student that you're getting the outgoing, you know, well-spoken, you know, high GPA students, that's not representing everybody.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Right. And so we we talk about taking away some of the barriers to running, like for example, giving a speech. If you have to stand up and give a speech in front of the whole student body or your whole grade to be elected to office, you're gonna cut out a lot of kids right off the bat. Yeah because they're not gonna want to stand up there and give a speech. So, what else can you do? What's the point of having them give a speech? You want people to understand what their viewpoints are, what their platform is, or you know, whatever. How else can you do that? Can you record their speeches and put them on a website? Can you have students answer a questionnaire and put their answers on a website? You know, what are the different ways that you can eliminate those barriers to keeping good students who maybe aren't that, you know, shining, you know, like well polished already a great student leader? Um how else can you, how can you be more inclusive with both other types of students who have great leadership skills? Or maybe are a diamond in the rough and they would have great leadership skills if they had a little polish, you know, but don't eliminate kids based on arbitrary things like a GPA or you know having to give a speech.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah. And I think too, we the education system tends to favor extroverts, an extroversion, and you can speak and you can communicate and you can, yes, all very important, but introverts can do that too, right? It's just a different, so I think that's yeah, I think it's important that yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

That's something that my uh SAC group brought up the last meeting that we had, that a lot of times when there is um opportunity for feedback for student council type opportunities, that there's always like a certain type of student that is very type A and very vocal and very outgoing that voices how they feel, but we have to find ways to get feedback from the student who's a little more, you know, quiet in the corner and may not be with the pom-poms at the pet rally, but they still have an opinion about you know what what they might like to see happen.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

And that goes for the things we were talking about earlier about like the spirit dress up days, you know, because not everybody wants to, you know, get all dressed up and make a fool of themselves, you know, but that doesn't mean they don't care about their school and they don't want to feel like they belong. So, you know, have levels of things or have have the goofy dress up thing or dress up in orange, you know, or you know, something easy that a person could still participate, still feel like they belong, even though they don't want to, you know, go all out, or maybe can't afford to go all out.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

And what has been your experience with students who have benefited from those barriers being taken away? Like have they expressed to you like, wow, this is a chance that I otherwise might not have had to lift my voice?

SPEAKER_01 45:58

I think of one student in particular who was in ninth grade, and we had not we had more than just one ninth grader, but he was so excited and so honored to be because I think sometimes leadership roles, not always, but sometimes they can be like 11th and 12th, or you have to have it, you know. But um I remember just how amazing and excited and engaged he was. Um so I I think yeah, I think just based on that experience.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Um yeah, I can't think of a specific example um, but I I know from experience and just general feedback from students that having the opportunity to say whatever they have experienced or or give their opinion makes people feel more valued and they get more involved.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

And the the the ability to participate in these kinds of activities supports the rest of the academic program. Yeah, because a lot of times kids will come back to school because of the program that they're part of, whether it's campus or student council or football or basketball or whatever, that's the thing that gets them there and gets their seat and you know, in the in their body in the seat so that they can be, you know, educated. Um and and I'll give you an example from Laudon of this. We have we had one school, okay. So the policy about being tardy to school and being able to participate in activities changed this year. Previously, you could be up to 15 minutes late and you could still participate in extracurricular activities, right? The principals voted last spring to do away with that, and you have to be on time and in school the whole day to participate in activities, unless you have like a doctor's note or you know something like that on time and in school all the whole day.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Okay, even if you're late from traffic or something or wow, on time.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

So it used to be you had a 15-minute grace period, but they did away with that because students know, oh, I can be late, I can be up to 15 minutes late, it doesn't matter, right? So trying to to teach them good habits, right? So it went into effect this fall, I will say that it was being um erratically enforced across the district. And there was one school that was not enforcing it for some of their activities. Okay. And this particular Friday, there was like 12 band members who were late to school and they weren't going to be allowed to participate in that halftime performance that night at the football game. Oh and it caused big hubbub and you know, whatever. And so it our office got involved. And anyway, I decided we have this new click app that we can that we can see participation by groups. Okay. So I I looked at the participation numbers. I you can drill down to individual students, right? Oh wow. I looked at a school that I knew was enforcing the policy versus this school that was not so good at it, right? The tardies in the school that enforced it for band members, we were just looking at band members, they had zero, one, maybe two tardies in the band members, the school that hadn't been enforcing it, seven, eight, ten, more than ten parties for those suits. Now, the only difference is that this school enforced the tardy rule and this school didn't. So being able to be a part of these groups matters for these kids. You know, and and it and it gets them there. And that school is now enforcing it and their tardy rate has dropped. Right. So, you know, students know and they know what matters to them. And having an opportunity to express themselves as a member of the band was important to them. So now they're gonna be on time, right? So all of these different opportunities for student voice in whatever way they want to express themselves, whether it's to, you know, make the school a better place, or maybe it's just to express their own talents and joy in playing an instrument or playing a sport or whatever. All these different ways that we allow students to or encourage students to participate and have a voice, I think, are important.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah, they support our educational goals as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

That it kind of ties into the the final question of why is DEIA so important for student success? Because I feel like in in this conversation, we've talked about the diversity of experience and background that students bring. We've talked about, you know, the equity and opportunity that they have to bring their voice, the inclusive feelings that they feel, and then of course that access to feedback. Um, I'll pose the same question to you, Alex. Why do you think um DEIA is so important with student success when it comes to student voice and choice?

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Yeah, I think it's the foundation, and I don't think that these four letters can be separated necessarily. I think that they all beautifully work together. Um, I think with diversity, we want to be learning from others who aren't like us. Like that's a beautiful thing. Um, and we want to make sure that there's equity and that students are feeling included. That ties a lot to attend. Like students attend, yes, there's often sometimes there is, but students by and large attend where they feel they're, you know, if we're talking about research, like where they feel connected and included and that they feel safe, supported, celebrated, and and that they belong. And they can tell when it's genuine too. Not just like I want you here because it's accreditation on the line, versus like I genuinely want you here because I want to see you and I want to learn from you. And I you're a part of this class and the school community. Um and of course, accessibility, that's that's just it's critical. So all four of those I think are and it's not only it's not, it's it's a practice and it's school-wide, and it's not something that's done to a sooner, like it's it's how we have to be to best serve all of our students um in our schools and in our school community.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

I really love what you said at the very beginning of the conversation about things happening to students versus with them. Right. Like the old, you know, movie quote of like if you build it, they will come is is true in part. But building something with somebody versus like, hey, based on my observation, this is what I think you would like, versus I want to build something that you really like, so come build it with me. Like it makes just a world of difference.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

Well, and it just makes sense because students are not cookie cutters, right? Yeah, they're not the same. Yes, and they're all different, they're all different, and they all bring their experience to the table. And you know, even if they look like they're similar, they're not, you know, they have different backgrounds, different family life, different places they've lived, different schools they've attended, different, you know, whatever all their experiences combined together make everybody unique. And we can't treat them the same because they're not the same.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

And we can't also have educational experiences that are one size fits all, right? That is exactly what Linux says. Because of that.

SPEAKER_02 54:09

And I think you know, you asked about why is D DEIA so important. We need to prepare our students for the real world also. And you know, they're they're gonna encounter all kinds of people that are different from them out in the you know, world of work. Um and they need to be able to be um fluent in dealing with different kinds of people, yeah. You know, so I think that's another factor that's important.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Thank you both for for bringing your perspectives and your voices to this conversation. I I feel like we could go on and talk for like another hour, but um, I really appreciate what you guys both brought.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Thank you for having us. This is a pleasure. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

So now that we've discussed the importance of centering student voice and choice, how can we utilize what we've learned? This month we challenge you to turn these words into action. What connection does student agency have to the role that you play in the LCPS community? Try to find new ways to respond to what's relevant and important for students, invite them to decision-making spaces, and affirm their ability to make the choices that will forge their unique paths. Thank you so much for tuning in to DEI Better Together. And thank you one more time to our fantastic guests. I'm really glad that I get to work with you guys both in different capacities and to have this specific opportunity to bring all these different perspectives together. It's been great. So thank you for joining me so well.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Special thanks to our superintendent, Dr. Aaron Spence, and assistant superintendent of DEIA, Dr. Letitia Ellis Williams, for facilitating the development and distribution of this podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow us on Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts to tune in to more courageous conversations in and around DEIA. For our next episode, we will be joined by Dr. Elizabeth Whitehead and Mr. Gary Rickey to explore the topic silence isn't neutral. What happens when we don't talk? Please join us as we discuss why we avoid the hard conversations, the importance of restorative education in combating curriculum silence, and healing-centered engagement. What happens when we turn tension into transformation? And remember, take what applies. Leave the rest. Use what you can to be your best.