008: Your Story is Your Superpower With Courtney Clark

Is the market too saturated for you to stand out? Spoiler alert: nope! In this empowering episode, I’m joined by the incredible Courtney Clark—business owner, photographer, and all-around encourager—for a heart-to-heart about why the magic of your business lies in you.

We’re diving into:

✨ Why the market isn’t as crowded as you think (and how to reframe that fear!)

✨ How your personality, story, and lived experience are your unique edge

✨ Letting go of perfection and embracing consistency in your content and brand

Courtney reminds us that you don’t need to be louder, just more you. Your story is your superpower, and when you lean into that, you attract your people—no gimmicks required.

Whether you’re just starting out or you’ve been in the game for years, this convo is your permission slip to ditch comparison and show up with confidence.

Connect with Courtney:

Instagram

Courtney Clark Photography

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Music: "Great podcast intro (both short and long version included)" by Lundstroem. Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Today's episode is with our very own social media manager and photographer, Courtney Clark. She is an amazing photographer. She mostly does weddings, branding photography, but for some reason she runs my social media and she absolutely crushes it every single time. So I'm so excited to have this conversation with her. We always end up yapping for most of our content creation time, and we're somehow cousins. So welcome to Utah. Um but before, without any further ado, let's get into the episode. Well, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you. We always end up having great conversations, so I'm glad that we're finally getting it recorded.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah, go ahead and introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your business, yourself, all the things.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, so I'm Courtney and I've been doing wedding photography for about six years now, about five years full-time. Um, and yeah, I don't know, it's really stemmed into a lot of different things. I started doing social media pretty consistently for a whole bunch of like wedding vendor kind of specific clients. Um, I travel a lot. If you want to know like personal stuff, I'm rarely home. Love traveling, love photography. Really big into hiking and anything outdoors and just spending time with families.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah, and you've started doing some content creation too, right? Yeah. Tell us about that. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Super random. I just because I travel so often and I pay so much in hotels, I figured there's a way to monetize this and enjoy it and get to know new people. And so, yeah, we've started doing content, photo and video for Airbnbs, and then they've been loving it, and so it's been great.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, your content always looks so good. Thank you. It always is amazing. Um so we were talking the other day about. I mean, we're both in industries where it could easily feel like the market is oversaturated. How do you deal with that? Like, especially getting because you're kind of, I mean, you've been in photography for a while, like you're pretty established in that. But with content creation and like traveling, like that's something as an outsider where I'm like, oh, there's no way I could get my foot in the door. Like, that is like it's established, it's done. Like, there no one's gonna be looking for someone new. So, I guess, like, where does that conference send from? How do you manage that? Hopefully, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

I'll take that in a couple of different areas. I'll start with maybe so. One of my things for 2024, I don't really set New Year's resolutions, but I set like mantras or kind of goals. And mine for 2024 was um just say yes and like say yes to every opportunity that I can. And then 2025 is to just ask, which the power of asking has been huge for me and opened so many doors with Airbnb specifically. I just started messaging people on Instagram just saying, Hey, like I would love to document your Airbnb, whatever, whatever. And of course, I got a bunch of no's, but it's the four yeses that you know starts get the ball rolling, and it really everything does compound and word of mouth is everything, and so and then for the oversaturation point, I think that's something that I hear all the time, specifically as a photographer that's mainly based in Utah, is that everyone and their mom is a photographer here, everyone. Um, and so I think just deciding that it's not oversaturated, it's really not. If you think about the amount of couples that get married every year in Utah, it's actually absurd. And everyone has someone they're looking for, and so I think focusing more on what you can hone and do better at and what your sort of niche is rather than trying to compete is kind of where it's at. But I don't think oversaturation is really a thing because there's so many people in the world. Totally. What's your opinion on that?

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yeah, I agree, and I think that people connect with you on a personal level, and I don't think that they're necessarily shopping as much as it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Um, one thing that I do find interesting as a business owner in today's age is you're compared against millions of people through social media. It's not just like I think about like my dad, right? Like he's an entrepreneur, but he owns a concrete company. And first of all, I mean that's like location specific, so it's a little different than like what you and I do as service providers, but like he would only be like he started when he was like 18, I think, or something like that, and one of those things were just one thing led to another, and it wasn't like he woke up one day and decided to quit a business and just evolved into that. But I think about what the competition would have been like, and it would have been people that he probably knew, and like it's such a small town, and I don't think that takes away from his success by any means, like at all. But it's just interesting the mental load that it is to be up against so many people instead of just like your hometown. Definitely, and even just the amount of people that we know now is wild.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

It is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I'm just like this is so different than even 30 years ago, 40 years ago, when you only I mean people move so much more, like just I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

It is very a lot. I use the word dystopian to like describe it because sometimes I'll run into someone, whether it's a photographer or just someone that I know through social media in person, and it's so weird because you yeah, you know way too many people than you should. So many people just like we have a mutual that we met through social media.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Like, oh you know so and so, and you're like, Yeah, I think only through Instagram, yeah. Oh, that's like one of my best friends.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

We're friends, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

I know, I know, yeah. And she has such a large following, yeah, but I know her from church, and so then like my perception of her is so different than what someone's perception of her would be if they met her from Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

And one thing with how many people we know and followings, that's something that I think is super easy to get into comparison about. And this is kind of like a sidebar, but it's crazy how I had I remember at the beginning of my career starting at the exact same place with some other photographers that I knew, and we started with like the same amount of followers, all the things some of them will have reels that just take off and get millions of views, and then they're sitting at like 12k followers, and like that automatically makes them better in the eyes of like a crowd, or I think like for show it designers, like someone randomly had a reel blow up and they're sitting at whatever, and so it's weird how numbers give people visibility and credibility, even without like backing it up. Yeah, they may not be the best at their thing, but because of that number, isn't that weird how that's also a thing?

SPEAKER_01 7:12

I think about that a lot, actually. Like when I see a photographer or another web designer have like exactly what you're saying. Like if they have 12k followers versus 400, I'm like, oh, the 12k person is automatically better. Yeah, it's so strange. Like I think that sometimes that takes away from like if I let it, I would let that be at my confidence for like having a new client call. And that's just so not accurate. Like just this morning I had someone from Instagram decide to book with me, and I'm like, huh, so weird. Like what makes someone book with you from Instagram, but then the reality is like it is still about personal relationships, and this kind of circles back to what we were originally saying is like people aren't actually shopping as much as it seems, like you're not actually compared against everyone in the world because, like you've said before, like you're the secret sauce in your business, like it is still a personal connection, absolutely, especially with photography. Like, you have to be comfortable with the person, yeah. Like it shows in the photos, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

And I think on that point, that's something that I tell all of my friends, especially when I've done mentorships in the past, and and now working with social media clients, being the face of your business is so important because at the end of the day, they may be looking at only two or three different vendors or whoever they're looking at, your client. But yeah, you're the one thing that's unique. Someone can know every single technique you have, they can have your editing style, they can have et cetera, et cetera, but you are the only difference. And so the more you show up authentically and just be you, like you sell yourself to your clients. And with that, it's really interesting how over the years, like all of my clients now kind of fit in this box, but they're all unique in their own way, but they have similarities of interest, like the national parks and outdoorsy and like things like that that you attract through sharing your own personality and they resonate with you rather than just yeah, like a style even they like you personally, and I think that's the key to kind of beating that mindset of okay, I don't have as many followers, but I have like the confidence behind it, and I stand my ground in what I know that I love and all the things like that. So definitely showing up as you is super important and creating like a brand identity.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah. Do you find it easy to have your social media be like an extension of your personality and like sharing your story, or like are there parts that you keep off limits? Like, what how do you infuse like your story and yourself within your social media?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

That's a great question, and that's something that I've learned over time. I grew up in the public eye in the sense of I had Instagram pretty young, and like my personal account was pretty big at one point, and I would overshare a lot, and that's kind of like a deep-rooted issue from like childhood, is like I would way overshare, and it helped me build a following and helps me be very relatable. But this last year I really learned to like dial that back, and I had made my accounts private and stuff, but now I'm back in the phase of sharing more again and just understanding like what should be shared and what shouldn't. But I do think when I share more about myself, I get more inquiries, which is really weird. But I think people just relate to you and they want to see you, not like a curated highlight reel of your life, like they want to see the behind the scenes and yeah. So I think navigating that can be tricky, but at the end of the day, I love when clients like I'm at a session and they're like, Oh my gosh, tell me about this, or I saw you did this, and so it's fun that they can relate with you and they feel like they know you better than they do.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, it like continues the conversation, yeah. Especially with like the price point, like the investment that someone's making with you, and the same thing with myself. Like, I think them feeling like they're still talking to you kind of gives them like peace of mind in their purchasing decisions as well, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

And that's something that I have learned from my photographer friend friends that is interesting about my business is that I stay friends with my clients for years. Like I talk to them very consistently through Instagram, they'll respond to my stories, or like they're having their second or third kid, and so I stay very like interacted with them, and most of my core people in my life have come from photography, which is weird too. Yeah, um, but you just get to know each other on such an intimate level, and then you know, you were there at one of the most important days of their life, like they're gonna remember you, and so that's been such a rewarding part of it too, and showing up for them in that way.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

You're capturing like such a major moment, yeah. So, you know, they're gonna they need to trust you absolutely and feel like you're gonna do it in the right way and not yeah. I think too like with photography, it's trending more into because you have more of like a documentary style and do a really good job of like capturing the couple and like their love story versus these like posed portraits. So I think for like your photography style too, it makes so much sense that your Instagram would be real, yeah, and not posed.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Totally. I don't know if that made sense. Yeah, uh-huh. And it's very kind, so thank you. I think that's one thing I always say on my client calls is uh like verbatim. I always say, like, this is one of the most important days of your life. I'm not gonna be a stranger that just shows up. Like, I want to know you guys, and that is reflected in my work that I actually know things about them, and like I know their birthdays, and I know what their dogs' names are, and I just care. And I think that comes down to it is if you want to do well in your business, just care, like show up.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

And that's something that can't be replaced or like replicated, like that's something that only you can do. Like, there's a million photographers, there's a million web designers, but you there's still space of us, which I think is cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

And to like small business owners out there, like don't let that bug you. Be delusional, post whatever you want to post, like show up for yourself and invest in yourself because you'll never regret it. Like, if I started, yeah, about six years ago and I was working kind of a horrible job, just paycheck to paycheck. Like, always felt like I couldn't get like an upper hand on life. Yeah, but you know, the second you decide to not be embarrassed and not be your biggest critic, like yeah, you and I can both attest to that. Like, now we get to work from home and we're gute little coffee shops and live the little girlbosh dream.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah, what everyone wants, right? Yeah, really, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

So you can do it, like just trust yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

You know more than anyone that I'm very critical of pretty much everything, and myself is not an exception. And for me to post a reel, it takes like three hours. Like I posted a reel the other day that was one clip with text over it, and I swear it took me two hours to like write the caption and re-watch it a million times and get approval from people, and then you know what? Like, I posted it and nothing happened, like the world did not burn down, um, which is crazy, but so I'm so grateful to have you posting my reels because you helped me stay consistent without me having to like tear myself apart. So I feel like that is genuinely like the best investment I can make in my business because it like helps me personally and professionally. Yeah, I think that people are scared to show their face or like post on social media because they are scared of like what people say or what people will think like people that actually know them in their life. Like I have a friend who is in the music industry and he's like trying to build up his I mean he's trying to make it in music, and so he's like trying to post stuff, and he said something to me the other day of like, oh you know, like I need to post dumb reels, whatever, and I'm like, I will never be the one to make fun of you for that. Like just do it. Like, we're all trying to make it. There's not, I don't know. I've never seen someone post a reel and then been like, wow, that's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Have you had that experience? Like, has anyone ever said anything negative to you?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Unfortunately, yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

I think it star it stemmed very, it happened very long ago. Yeah. It happened a long time ago. Um, in high school, one of my reels was sent to it was supposed to be sent to a group chat, and this girl had sent something like how embarrassing, or something like crazy like that. And so I took the higher road and I was like, hey, like, I don't think this was meant for me, but like I said something nice back, and she was, you know, profusely apologizing, like, I'm so sorry, blah blah blah. But like, you know, you might be embarrassing, you might be cringy, but it's okay. I'm sitting here doing what I love. Yeah, I might have been cringy, I might have been embarrassing at the beginning. I may not have been the best photographer at times, but you know, there's nothing wrong with showing up and just trying because you know, they'll laugh until they see you making millions and they're like, Oh, be like, Oh, how'd she do it? Yeah, exactly. And so it's pretty full circle, but yeah, like I experienced that pretty young, and then I don't know about now.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Definitely I definitely face that in high school as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah, just people can be mean, and you know, have kind of having a smaller, tight-knit community, you get judged, but again, oh well, yeah, let people think what they want to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

It's usually people that are on the outside, it's not usually people that genuinely know you or genuinely care, in my experience. Like my actual close friends and family are applauding me or happy, or like absolutely like, oh, you're crushing it. Like, I saw your new podcast episode, like, oh you, and then if it is a negative whatever one at this point, I don't know about it because people aren't saying it to my face, but I definitely had that happen in high school where like a couple of girls just like tore me apart in the comments of my own post. Yeah, I had that too. I'm like, what is happening? And I think I ended up like deleting it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

And there's something to be said about people that are I don't know, this is something like my mom would always say is that they're insecure, and I think that does come down to that. That you know, we're willing to be courageous and put ourselves out there and try something new. And honestly, some of that might be envy, some of that might be insecurity. I don't know. Yeah, but no either. At the end of the day, at least we're doing what we love, and you know, doesn't matter. They can work from nine to five forever, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

I know, yeah. I was hard scrolling through my camera roll the other day and found this picture that I had used as my like I don't know. I remember taking this photo, and I remember it was for my blog. I had a vlog too in like middle school, and I'm like, man, like I wish that I hadn't let people tear me down. Like, I was actually doing pretty similar to what I'm doing now at like such a young age. Like I would sew pencil pouches and make DIY popsicle recipes and like coasters and like I made these clay coasters and they're in my sister. My sister's had a baby, they're in her nursery. Oh how have you held on to those all these years? It's just like I'm just glad to one be out of that season where like people's opinions matter so much, where it like hinders your creativity. But two, it's like cool to look back and be like, oh, I'm actually doing like what that version of me wanted.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, that's when I was this like insecure middle school girl trying to run a blog. Like, I'm happy to know that now I'm kind of fulfilling that in a way.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Absolutely. So did you use BlogSpot or what did you use?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I think it was on Weebly.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Weebly, yeah. Mine was on BlogSpot.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, so fun. The original bloggers right there.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

No, I think that's so true though. And kind of like you were saying with you know, delegating your social media to me, I think that's something that's helpful because then you're able to show up authentically and do what you love, but not creatively drain yourself by trying to fit into this social box or whatever. And I hear the same from a lot of my clients. Like it's so nice to like get inquiries and do things, and like I just have to be in the camera for an hour, yeah, once a month or whatever it is for like content creation. But it's just nice to yeah, do what you love and not drain yourself.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Yeah, the call I was on this morning, she was saying something very similar. I was like telling her that because something that's important to me is that people can make small changes to their website, like after we hit publish. Like, I just don't want to be the person that's charging them for like micro edits, um, which is unique as a designer, so that's awesome. So, like, I take I take a lot of pride in educating my clients and like giving them that confidence for themselves later. But a lot of times they're like, I don't want anything to do with it, and I'm like, that's fine, but she that was her response. And she was like, That's great, but honestly, don't care, like, I don't want to touch it. She's like, I've been trying to launch for four years, and I'm realizing that I just need to delegate this. Like, I want so badly to do it all, and like have my hand in every single part of my business, but then the reality is like I need to just pay someone, yeah. And like, yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

That's a quality that a lot of small business owners need to implement, is just like the release of yeah, letting something go. Cause at the end of the day, you look at these big corporations that are successful, and they have accountants and managers and social media people and all these things, so you don't have to be everything, you can definitely outsource whatever you want, and I think there's power in that as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

How are there any parts of your business that you've outsourced?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Um, I think my biggest and most impactful one is like a CPA for taxes. That is so nice just to have that buffer of protection too of like, okay, I'm doing everything right. If I were to get audited, they can help me. Right. I think that's my biggest one. Trying to think if there's any others. I don't know, because I love the social media and the so I kind of do a little bit of all of that. I would say yeah, mainly like tax stuff is what I outsource.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's scary when you're dependent on yourself, like how much you put in is how much you get out as a business owner to like outsource something or like trust someone else. But I think it can if you're willing to take those risks, it can get you bringing in larger numbers faster.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

In my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

And one thing I'll add to that that I think is also super important in this conversation is like mental health. And mental health hygiene is like what a lot of therapists will call it. And I really struggled as a business owner before I figured out stuff on my end of yeah, becoming mentally healthy and stable and all the things. And so you really can't do it all. And the second you start taking care of yourself is the second you can start taking your care of your clients. And yeah, taking care of yourself physically and mentally help you show a lot better. And so I think that's an important ad to is if you're feeling so overwhelmed and stressed, like don't be scared to like reach out to a lifeline because that's so needed. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yeah, no, that's a really good point. It's kind of like the maternal relationship. Like when your mom This is gonna be a strange analogy, but like when your mom works on herself, it like benefits the descendants, like the children.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

And it's like in a way, I mean, we all view our businesses as like our little babies. It's like your business is gonna do better because you're working on yourself, like you're the mom of your business. Absolutely. Like this little baby is gonna have a much better life because you handled X, Y, and Z before it grew up.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Absolutely. No, I think that's and and that's one thing too is energetics and money are huge. And so if you show up in this anxious, like I do a client call for all my clients. Sorry, we're just taking so many sidebars, but hopefully it's good.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

This is good.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Cool. But yeah, energy and money and energy in your business is huge. And so if you're showing up to a new client call and you're kind of anxious and you're like, yeah, like you know, if you want to book, or like if if this and you you can your clients can feel that, and so I think showing up authentically is you and giving them the permission slip to buy and just yeah, being sure of you and your offerings that comes off very well too. Yeah, and so yeah, that's another one tangent.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Totally. No, I think having I mean confidence in your business, I think would be impossible without putting confidence in yourself first, especially as a service provider, like where it is kind of dependent on you, yeah. And relational like the whole I guess the whole model that like we're going off of where it's like people are booking for Courtney and people are booking for Abby, not necessarily photography and web design. Definitely, but I think like you have to figure yourself out first in order for that to work.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Well, and we've seen that since we've started social media together on your side, like how people are quicker to book when you're showing up and your face is there more, and you know, it's cool to see that direct correlation already, and just how that really does pay off and translate. Yeah, and you already have all the bones of your business set up, so it's just the cute little stupid reels that we post.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Right, yeah. You talked about you have taught me a lot about like being consistent versus being perfect. Like, I like things to be very curated and perfect, and not that you make things that are sloppy, that's not at all what I'm trying to say. But you do a really good job at like, hey, no, like we gotta just get this done. And like like just the other day when we were filming content, I'm like, oh, but what about if we worded it like this instead of the like you're just like girl, me and Bryson are both being there, like, keep it simple, just keep it simple. That's something I struggle with, but it's so refreshing to like be able to bounce ideas off of you, and like I'm just so glad that we have each other.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Me too, because it really is fate that put us together, it's kind of been crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

It is so wild because we literally met through Facebook, but yeah, honestly, you owe a lot to Meta because that's also how you met Kessler.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Okay, now we have a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

So like Meta can't go down because Courtney's life depends on it.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

No, but on a real no, it does.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

But that's why we have websites and left design because I cannot promise you that I will have you meet your future husband, but I can't build you a website.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah, so Abby and her cousin.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Basically. Basically, if you're still listening at this point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

So yeah, Abby and I did meet through a Facebook group. We did, and then we found out Facebook groups, same, yeah. Oh, such a untapped market for photography. I get so many clients through Facebook, it's actually crazy. Yeah, but yeah, we met through Facebook and then found out that our partners are related. And so we're coming back.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

I hopped on a call and Courtney goes, I'm pretty sure your wedding invitation is on my boyfriend's dad's fridge. And I'm like, What? Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Um it was pretty quick, but I brought it up too.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Like, hey, I'm Courtney and Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

I don't know if I need to disclaim this, but I'm going to like, I know who you are.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

I know where you're getting married and when.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

I saw the invitation. I'm pretty sure I have a call with her on Monday. And then sure enough.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

You knew who we were even when people that we invited didn't. Yeah. Because there were invites we sent out that people were like, I don't know who this is. I'm like, then why are you coming to our wedding?

SPEAKER_00 27:56

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

But Ryson cut that out.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Cut that part out.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Cut that out. I get smack talk to family.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Uh that's real. So yeah, Facebook is kind of an untapped resource, our lifeline.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah. Are there any other random niche things like that for finding clients that you found?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, I think my so on my inquiry form I have How People Found Me. And I think the top is usually Facebook. And so yeah, I always recommend small business owners to join local groups, or they'll there's like one that we're both a part of, like the Utah Business Network or Utah Girls Business Network, whatever. Um, yeah, photographer Facebook groups, Instagram, a couple things that I do with Instagrams. I have different accounts, like one that's literally like Moab Wedding Photographer, or like the handle is like Zion Wedding Photographer, whatever it is, and that brings in people. And so I would say that obviously optimizing your website with keywords is huge. That really helps. Trying to think of a couple niche things.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, I think um, I mean, SEO gets a lot of hype, and I'm definitely think it's still worthwhile and still worth the investment. But recently heard it described as like search everywhere optimization instead of like search engine optimization. And I think that instead of it being like so overwhelming of like, oh, I need to be on every platform and like posting is this on every platform and yada yada, it's like okay, think about where your clients are searching for you. So, like a bride, like, where is she gonna be searching for a wedding photographer? And how can you utilize like the platforms that she would be searching on? And so same thing with web design. It's like, okay, where are people going to find a web designer? So that's why I spend a lot of time on Pinterest because I think people are gonna like go to Pinterest to find web design inspiration, and then like my thinking is like because Pinterest is always so aspirational, like you don't actually think that you're gonna find what you're looking for, it's like more to get a mood for build ideas, you know. And so, like, just a small example just the other day, like there's this lamp on Pinterest, and not like the shopping thing, like it was like wedding inspiration, and it was a lamp, and I was like, I want that exact lamp. And when I found it, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so good. Like, how in the world did I find this lamp for this pen? But anyways, so that's my thinking with Pinterest is it's like someone's gonna go on there and think that this is just an idea and that they could actually have that. And then when they realize that like they could, like that's gonna be such a like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing moment. So I like to showcase my work on Pinterest and then hope that people will get that feeling of like, I didn't know I could actually have my website look like this. Like I thought this was just a pipe dream, and then Instagram, you do a really good job at making accounts searchable. So I've had like three or four clients now say that they found me through Instagram because they like search for a web designer, and then my account pops up, even though I only have a couple hundred followers. So being searchable, I think, yeah, is like the key.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

And on that, Pinterest is such an untapped resource as well. I think I keep reiterating that, but yeah, I get a crazy amount of views from Pinterest. Yeah, and it's literally they have a future where you can connect your Instagram to Pinterest, and so I don't do literally anything, it just connects it and that's cool. Yeah, it's it's crazy what random pins will pop off. And I mean, at the end of the day, I think visibility is always king. Like, maybe don't chase virality, but one thing that I've learned from you is building what do you call it, like building brand recognition, but it's not to like get new leads, it's for what what do you call that?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Um validation tool. I don't know if that's what you're thinking. Something about that's what my websites are for a lot of clients, is it's like a validation tool. Like it helps them look reputable.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah, like a community builder rather than like pulling in a bunch of new leads.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Or whatever you're talking about. Like with my yes, relationship building, yeah type of thing. Yeah, we've talked about that like with my Instagram content specifically.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, I think that's important. Yeah, I think they're like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Facebook groups are such a random one, but I don't know if that is more location specific, like if Utah, that's true, because there's so many Utah business Facebook groups, and I'm people very active in them.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

So just for reference, I'm looking at my inquiries, and the last like seven of them have come from Facebook, and they're all for Colorado weddings because I'm in like a Colorado Bride's Facebook group, and so that yeah, again, join some Facebook groups, like you're gonna get clients so easily. And it's free, it's free, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Like that's the best part.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

And if you have free time as a business owner, like sit there, open Facebook, have I always have like a little blurb and then my links at the bottom that I just copy from my notes and paste, and yeah, you're yeah, it's like such an easy one.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

It's like instead of scrolling, why don't you just throw this in a Facebook group?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah, or paying for ads that you don't see results on, like that's again in your control.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

So I think people are kind of over paid ads too.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Oh yeah, like I scroll past any ad.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

I get so irritated with paid ads. Like I cannot see myself converting from a paid ad. But again, I mean there's different buyer personas. I know people do convert from paid ads, but that's my personal opinion.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

It feels a little disingenuous, disingenuous. I don't know the right word for that. I agree. Yeah, if I see sponsored like on a Google search, I always skip it and go to like the top ranking one or Instagram if a a story comes up that's I skip it.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Just go right past it.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

So knowing that for myself, why would I invest in something that's A out of my control and B not bringing any leads? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

So I will say I think it does increase your brand recognition, like someone, like you coming to mind for someone. So like maybe they're not hot and ready to buy then, but like when the time comes that they are looking for you, your name is already in their head.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Definitely visibility, visibility, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Like I could see it for that reason, but I'm and some people kill it with ads, so I'm not discrediting that. Yeah, no, totally. I think I just take a different approach where I would rather them feel like it's their decision and not me selling something. So it's like showing the value, showing who I am, like showing that they can trust me. Like to me, that is more valuable than just being like, now's the time to buy because prices are about to go up and I'm booked out, and like you I don't know, I don't want people to feel rushed. It's like a scarcity mindset of like, yeah, like because I do want to help people, and that's like my priority over just I don't know, like charging as much as I possibly can.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

So yeah, I get that. That's my approach.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

It's working, it's working. You're butting busy.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

No, that's that's exactly right. It is working. Yeah, so good. Did you how did you get into photography? Like, is this the life that you pictured for yourself? Or tell us a little bit of background. How'd you get here?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Okay, the long story. So I was working at a normal job at the time. Um, keep in mind I was in college, and so I had class from about 9 a.m. to three, 9 a.m. to like 210 p.m. for college, and then I worked from three to nine at this job, and that was Monday through like Saturday, like every single day. Super busy. And so one of these days I already had like an extra $700 in my paycheck, and I was like, I'm finally gonna buy a camera, and so I went to Walmart or Target, it doesn't matter, and I bought like a Canon T6, like one of the most base models ever, and I just started shooting friends for fun, and I think I that I got that in like August or September, and then I got my first paid client for like 50 whole dollars in November, and I felt so excited, and then like that next year I had a wedding I did in March, and it just like really started spiraling from there. Um, and so that's kind of how I got my foot in the door, was just something that I'd wanted to do. And I I feel like this is very cliche, but I was exposed to it very young. Like, I picked up a camera. The first camera I ever had was a $25 pink little point and shoot from Toys R S. My friend would give me a gift card for my birthday, and I was like 10. Anyways, so I'd like to take little pictures of the neighborhood girls and like pose them, and and then it helps that I had an uncle and a cousin, and then my sister who had all done photography at one point or another, and so I knew it was a possibility, but I didn't think that it would spiral to where it is now. Um, but I do think this is always what I've wanted to do, and it's what aligns with me most, and so it's something that I wouldn't change anything for. Like I love what I do, and I am proud of myself too that I really have built it up from what it was.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

But yeah, okay. So, what was your major? What were you studying?

SPEAKER_00 37:31

So originally I went to school in the like pre-physical therapy program for whatever reason. That was just something I thought I was passionate about. I took it, I took a course in high school and I loved it, and then I actually loved it in college. I don't remember what made me pivot, but at some point I just decided to major in Spanish because that was something that I grew up with, and I've always loved it. And so I started, yeah, changed my major to Spanish. I got my associate of art. Um, and around that time was when COVID had hit.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

And so that kind of upended all of my plans. And I had someone in my life at the time that had told me, because I pretty much said, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go be a communications major now. Like I'm gonna be a communications major because you know that's what everyone does. And I said, Oh, but I really wish I could make like photography a full-time career. And I had an uh ex-partner at the time tell me, like, that will never be a thing, like you could never do that. And the spiteful, like feminine rage inside of me was like, you know what, whatever. Like that was like the motivator, that was the motivator, and I made it happen. And so that was one of the first like spiteful things where I'm like, yeah, right, like I could do anything I set my mind to, and that delusion just became a reality. So I did stop, I only got my associates, and then I stopped school and just did photography. Started doing photography. Because I'm like, why would I invest 10k in a degree when I could just invest that in my business? So yeah, totally. That's what I came to. That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Well, I'm glad that you did not listen to that.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Because that is wild.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, no, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

But um, so what are your future plans? Like, do you have any new projects coming up? Anything you're excited about? Tell us a little bit about the future.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah, that's honestly great. I don't really think too far ahead. I don't know why. I think it's because all of my goals I had I've met, and so now I'm kind of pivoting and figuring out what I want to do next. I think this year I'm doing, I feel like probably 80% of my weddings are in Colorado, which is gonna be fun. Just to have a different change of scenery, different wedding vendors to work with. Um, but yeah, goals-wise, I feel like I'm just really trying to travel and open myself to new opportunities. I think for me, my biggest goal is financial freedom. Like at the end of the day, that's why I do what I do. I want to be free and have time and yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

You know, you have to make money. Otherwise it's a hobby. Yeah, really expensive.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Exactly. And so I think that's just my goal, especially like turning 26 next year and getting off of insurance and all the things. It's like, hey, how can I diversify my income in a million ways and be successful doing it? Put all your things in one basket.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah, so that's why Is there a type of work that you like the most right now? Like, whether it be branding or weddings or the travel content, like what are you enjoying the most?

SPEAKER_00 40:24

A little bit of all of it. It depends seasonally. Some seasons I really love social media, and that's super fun, like especially through slow season. Um, and the Airbnbs have been really fun because it's just different. I a lot of the content includes me, which I'm not used to, but it's fun to just kind of have something creatively challenging. Um, but at the end of the day, I love weddings and couples, and right now is the season to hop on a bunch of client calls and onboard new people. And I think at the end of the day, that human connection is my favorite thing. Like a lot of people get burnt out of weddings, but I don't because I think I actually find joy in it. And you know, I do it every day if I could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

That's all I think.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

I think I kind of like all of it, but yeah, photography still reigns like the the king, what I love the most. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

And you just started adding in film.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

I did, yeah, that's been fun.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Right? How is that like working together with your partner? Like, how does that do you guys compartmentalize or is it kind of like conversation-wise? Like, how do you turn it off and on?

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Yeah, I think it really depends. Kess is really good about just kind of setting that boundary of like, okay, like we're you know, we're not doing work stuff right now, or like we like to edit together and find time to do things together, and it helps that he already has a photo and video background, and he's very knowledgeable and talented, and so it's been expansive to learn more about like his eye and the way he does things, and so it's been really fun. And he always travels with me, anyways, and so we're like, hey, why don't you just join and then we can both get paid, and it's beneficial for both of us, right? But then growing it together, yeah. So it's been fun and it's been a really good balance, which is nice.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

So does he have clients on his own as well?

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Not right now, okay. Yeah, we're pretty much just doing stuff together for now, just because then he doesn't have to do the socials and sure all of his own back end, you know. I just kind of take care of it.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yeah, yeah, that's super cool. I feel like that's so nice to have it all in one, like everything that you're offering all under the same roof is super cool.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

And clients are way more likely to book because it seems convenient for them. And like I've seen that in the past when I've offered joint packages, is they book way quicker because it's like, oh cool, I could just check one more thing off my list, whatever. And yep. We actually went to dinner with some clients that we have this coming year, and Kess and the groom like hit it off, like they're cute little besties, and we're like going to concert with them later in the year, and so it's fun to have that relationship too. That yeah, it's like a good balance to have like male and female energy to be able to show up for your clients, like they're way more comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

That's a really good point. Cause I think with wedding specifically, like it all gets put on the bride, yeah. But having Kessler like connect with the groom and kind of like make him feel special too. Definitely a point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Yeah, so it's it's been really fun. Well, it's nice because he's built to travel just like I am, and so we're always gone together, which I love.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Yeah, you guys are very compatible with like within business and then personally too.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

It's super cool to watch.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

So cool. Well, I'm so glad that we could have this conversation. Thank you for taking the time.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And then I'll link all your socials and your website and all those fun things in the show notes. People can connect with you.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

When are you booking currently? Are you booking?

SPEAKER_00 43:53

I'm booking into 2026 right now. So, like up until like November of 2026, I have bookings. And so my books are open, but you know, I always have last minute availability as well. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

And you travel Utah, Colorado, everywhere, Arizona, all over, California, Texas, Washington, Oregon.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

It's kind of insane. All over.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

I know, I know. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

It's awesome. If you want me there, I'll be there. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. Not ready to say goodbye, me neither. Follow along on Instagram at flourish.foundry to stay connected day to day or join my email list for freebies, new episode updates, fun links, and more.