Did you say they used to bundle vaccines into yes? Is that a bad thing? Because I I feel like I feel like seven things in one. That that sounds really efficient.
SPEAKER_03Efficient, exactly. Except when your immune system goes haywire because it's like, dude, you're asking me to do all this shit at one time. Seriously? Together, an industry disruptor.
SPEAKER_00And renowned veterinarian discuss and debate, establish norms and new ideas in the pet world.
SPEAKER_03This is challenging pet health. I think a great topic of conversation is talking about supporting people through the steps of taking care of a new puppy or kitten.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's so much to cover. And I think it's easier with adult dogs talking about what to do with an adult dog than it is with a puppy sometimes.
SPEAKER_03It is. I think it's a and and we should do that conversation another time because I think we could really target it towards adopting an adult animal. And so that's a great conversation to have. And we'll weave some of that into today, but targeting puppies and kittens, because I get a lot of people asking about that as well. And there's some very particular, you know, details and nuances we want to talk about. And even in my clinical practice, I actually created a 30-minute video a little more tailored to puppies, but kittens too. And we actually send that to clients before they ever even come in the office for the exam visit, because there's, like you said, there is so much to talk about that you can't even scratch the surface of what a lot of people want to know in a typical veterinary exam visit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's funny because a friend of mine just got a puppy recently, and um he was sort of saying, like, what do I do? And I'm like, I actually don't even know anymore, to be honest. Because again, some of it goes against the orthodoxy, and when people buy from a breeder, they'll have like their own foods that they're being fed on, and you're like, that is a horrible dog food to be giving your animal, and but then you're kind of you also don't want to like overload people with things, so it's really hard. And look, just from a formulation aspect, we like so I used to sell this brand of dog food years ago, and the only difference between the adult dog food and the puppy one was they used to just add egg. Interesting, it was a wet meat product, and I used to sell loads of it, but it was like literally. I remember when we did run out of the puppy version, and I was like, uh like people are like who've got puppies want this product, and they're like, just tell them add egg. That's all we do. We literally just add egg to the normal product.
SPEAKER_03Uh makes sense from a nutritional standpoint because egg is such a good thing for growth. I mean, you know, eggs were so that the baby neonate chicken could grow with those nutrients. So that actually makes sense. But obviously, diet companies would be putting higher levels of protein and fats and you know, certain things the amino acids and things that puppies need to grow and other certain, you know, minerals and vitamins, etc. But food is always a perfect discussion to start out with because supporting pet parents to start them off on the right foot, so that we start in a preventative, health, supportive manner, and diet's the number one factor, pretty much, in that conversation.
SPEAKER_00More so with kittens as well. I'm slightly obsessed by how many cats get like kidney problems from not from being dehydrated. A lot of that's down to kibble feeding, in my opinion. Indeed. And like it's not that's not me saying kibble feeding bad, whatever, but it's like cats don't have a natural thirst drive. So if you're feeding, like in the wild, a cat a cat would get its moisture from prey animals, and so if you're starting it off on a kibble-fed diet, it can be very hard to transition it onto something else because cats cats aren't like dogs, dog dogs are easy enough to transition from what whatever diet you've got to a new diet. Cats can become quite routinely stuck in certain diet types.
SPEAKER_03They can be more finicky or selective compared to the average dog, certainly. And you're 100% correct that feeding dry food certainly lifelong for a cat is absolutely causing issues. When dogs eat kibble, they will go slurp down a bunch of water to make up for being on a dry food, most of them. Some small breed dogs don't do that as much as large breeds, but inherently most cats will not. And they are spending their lives dehydrated, anywhere from borderline dehydrated to true dehydrated. And it's certainly causing a lot of bladder problems, you know, crystal stones, kidney failure as they get older, etc. So certainly in the food discussion, quality of food, what to do for puppies and kittens, but I love that you hit on right away in the conversation, is moisture in the food, especially for cats, is critical importance. And so when you start them out on dry, there are a lot of addictive things on a lot of the kibbles. They spray them with the animal digests and the things that are really tasty. And um, like you said, it can be hard to convert them over to other options once they get in that dry food pattern.
SPEAKER_00I'm always like really like nervous around marketing language because again, like I just said, like you got a dog food and it's just basically adult dog food and they add egg in, which okay, that's it's better than the normal, right? But like that growth phase is so important and like a poor growth phase, like it when you've got like a young animal, if they're not getting what they need, they'll have lifelong issues off the back of the head.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Like starting them off right from the get-go, you know, you can't understate the value of that because yeah, you're starting at a deficit if you have nutrient deficiencies from the start. You did talk about how a lot of puppies will be sent home from the breeder with the food or perhaps a shelter if people are, you know, rescuing, adopting. There's something to be said for having a little slow, you know, transition time of taking them on what they've been previously eating, but then supporting pet parents to start transitioning, combining in other less processed forms of food, you know, low processed or fresh versus the typical ultra-processed kibble.
SPEAKER_00So what do you look for in the freeze? Like so, because I feel like like nutrition is one of those things that actually genuinely does my head in at this point. But I think like the problem is is obviously, you know, people work to budgets. They need convenient there's an element of convenience involved because again, if you're feeding a frozen food, you need a lot of space, especially if you've got like a larger breed dog that's gonna that's gonna eat a hell of a lot of food. So like what what do you what would you say your main guides are in terms of like if I'm I've just brought home a puppy or a kitten, like what what are you looking for really?
SPEAKER_03My you know, my goals to support people would be to say limit or omit at some point, if possible, ultra-processed food. So we know most people are on a budget. There are, you know, variances within different formats of food as far as cost, but most people can at least include some low-processed and some fresh food in the diet. Like even toppers, you know, and there are a lot of veterinary experts that say, you know, adding 10% fresh food into a bowl of kibble goes an extraordinarily long way, then nothing at all. And so even just adding some toppers, and I love to tell people I'm not a all-one format of food or it's all or nothing, you know, there's there's different variations of things that we can do and slowly step into stuff, baby stuff step into stuff. But if we can move away from heavily, meaning high heated, you know, when anything it goes through extreme heat and pressure, which is the extrusion method, is the standard, not only are nutrients, you know, damaged and therefore not bioavailable. So you're getting less nutrition out of something heavily processed, but frankly, anything that's heated to that extreme is also more inflammatory to the body. So now you're eating more pro-inflammatory. So my goal for everyone is always to move toward low-processed or fresh, and even just adding some in the diet is better than none.
SPEAKER_00When you say fresh, what like you're talking about like raw or like gently cooked? Because again, like like because when you've got, let's say, so because some people might take fresh as some of the tins or like the some of the shelf stable products. Okay. And like from my experience, some of the tins and shelf stable products, they need to use bot like emulsifiers, yeah. Which binds the proteins and fats together and essentially makes it something else. So we're talking about like even if even if you only like use like a small amount of raw or a small amount of something gently cooked, it's about putting something. That's the fresh, yeah. That's the whole thing. That's how I would define it as well. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Gently cooked or raw. And raw, obviously, we you know, we want a decent amount of protein in their diet. That's always a big topic of the discussion. But even raw in like a couple blueberries, like we could be talking some fruits and a little bit of veggie, you know, et cetera. But certainly, you know, the proteins, whether it's a raw or gently cooked egg or some meat, etc., there's all kinds of toppers that can be used.
SPEAKER_00So let's say like I'm on a budget and I'm using like sort of 10, 20%, like let's say a fresh food, whether that be raw or gently cooked, like the rest of the the does it need to be something marketed as a puppy or kitten food? My issue is that obviously with like the marketing spin, it like I say, just add an egg and that's that's your puppy food.
SPEAKER_03So and again, I think a lot of it is marketing. However, there's probably some differences depending on the breed and the size of the dog. So a small breed dog that's not gonna grow a lot, um, you know, as far as size, that can make a big difference. But a large breed or giant breed dog that has a lot of growth can have very different requirements. Um, interestingly, though, a lot of large breed puppy foods that are marketed for that are designed to sort of slow the growth rate so they don't have a huge fast growth spurt, because that can lend to more joint problems and cartilage problems if they grow too fast. So, you know, that's sometimes obviously calculated into some of these foods, but I don't think it's ultra, and I don't develop food, so to say with some caveat, I don't think it's ultra important to have really specifics, you know, to that degree in the type of food that you feed. I would be going more towards high-quality, low-processed, correct volumes of food, you know, that we're feeding. Um, and just to find to define low-processed so everyone has a little clarity around that, things that aren't ultra-processed or heavily heated, different formats of food can be freeze-dried, dehydrated, air-dried, you know, et cetera.
SPEAKER_00So there's all kinds of formats of food that are but then like I think it's like when we talk about let's say the larger dogs, things like bone broth then become important because again, you've got hot like speed of like growth in like the joints and that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_03And supporting them with those nutrients is huge.
SPEAKER_00But actually, when you've got a puppy, this is the ultimate time to act proactively because a little like doing the right thing at the beginning means that you're gonna not have those problems down the line.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So other topics that you know really play into the puppy and kitten conversation, tons of people want to know about what to do with vaccines. Um, and so when I, you know, support pet parents, certainly from an integrative approach, a big part of the discussion for both dogs and cats is to minimize vaccinations, not to overvaccinate, when to start them, um separating multiple vaccines to not be done at the exact same time on the same day, you know, administering multiple at the same time. And then very thoughtfully through adult life, minimizing to what is appropriate for their region, their lifestyle, you know, their own individual risks, and not just to blanketly vaccinate just because we can.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it depends important to like to realize there is like vaccine hesitancy and like Tim Four hat merchants where they're just like all vaccines are horrendous. Do you know what I mean? And it's sort of like it's about like my thing with vaccines is like you know, you don't take headache medication for a headache you might have tomorrow, but at the same time, like with vaccinations, there are certain things which are just dangerous not to have vaccines for, right?
SPEAKER_03So there are, and so to really speak to that in sort of an easy way, uh at least, and I'm pretty sure this may be the world small animal, but definitely world small animal uh veterinary association, but definitely at least in the US, the core vaccines for a dog are considered parvo, distemper, and rabies. Those are the three core. So those would be the life-threatening, you know, big diseases that we really want to prevent. And quite frankly, those three vaccines are good vaccines, meaning they have a high rate of efficacy. There are a lot of other optional vaccines that are not core vaccines that people should really pay more attention to as far as decision-making around that. Does my pet really need this? What is the efficacy rate of this vaccine, et cetera? So there are a lot of other ones that simply may not be needed and are just overused because that's just kind of the way protocols go. So, as far as getting puppies and kittens started, most breeders unfortunately will start them too early at even five or six weeks of age. There's a lot of scientific data, published data to show that maternal antibody, which will block a vaccine, meaning maternal antibody is what the mom gives to the puppy or kitten through the placenta or the mammary glands through the milk. Um, they're gaining antibodies from mom to help support them to fight off things early in life before they've had the chance to create their own immunity. And so the thing is they're born essentially, you know, and and as neonates, acquire immunity from mom, and that will block a vaccine. So a vaccine is trying to trigger the body to create its own antibodies to protect itself in the future if it faces that virus. But if maternal antibodies are already on board, then the body's like, I don't need to spend energy creating an antibody of that. I already got some. So the whole point of not starting them too soon is that when you give a vaccine with maternal antibody on board, you are potentially offering a risk to the body of stimulating it immunologically for something that isn't going to help it. So you're taking on risk with no reward.
SPEAKER_00When should they be started?
SPEAKER_03So a lot of integrative vets that have studied this, Dr. Gene Dodds, one of them, one of the premier, and Dr. Ron Schultz, who was actually my immunologist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and he was actually preaching to us in the early 90s that the veterinary field overall is we're overvaccinating. And he said, we haven't caught up with the studies yet, but you know, mark my word, we'll we'll get there over the years, but it'll take some time. Um, Dr. Jean Dodds has been a big proponent of this too, um, as a big, you know, immunologist. She's also endocrinology. And um, they have established recommended minimal protocols, minimal vaccine protocols that are still considered very safe and you know, efficacious for the pet, but not overdoing it and you know, having protocols that could lead to compromise. And so it is recommended to start at eight to ten weeks, nine to ten weeks right in there, rather than five to six.
SPEAKER_00Well, we in the UK we're eight, we it's we do eight weeks and twelve weeks, is normally what we do. Excellent. Yeah, like no, I don't think anybody does it before eight weeks, and it's supposed to be you do it eight weeks and I think maybe ten or twelve weeks afterwards. But I know some people push it to nine or ten weeks.
SPEAKER_03Okay, which is great. Right in there is what I like to recommend, and it is standardly done here much sooner.
SPEAKER_00Oh, really?
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. And so that can cause some immunal compromise without the reward. As far as maternal antibody, like the then the whole puppy or kitten series, that's coming after that with the vaccinations. The typical protocols, at least in the US, is you do the first vaccine, whether that's done at six weeks or eight weeks or whatever, and then three to four, sometimes they even shorten it two to four weeks later, you keep boosting them until they're at least 16 weeks of age. Some people even go through 18 or 20 weeks, and you keep boosting them at windows of two, three, four weeks until they are beyond 16 weeks. And the whole premises of that is that maternal antibody will fade naturally, but you don't know when it's gonna fade for each individual. So you could have a litter of six puppies, two puppies could lose maternal antibody at 10 weeks, two could lose at 11 weeks, two could lose at 13, 12 or 13 weeks, but we know that maternal antibody will be gone by 15 weeks. So that's why if we're gonna test them, by the way, with a titer test to see if they have immunity, we always wait till after 15 weeks, if we've been vaccinating them and people want to be minimalist with vaccines, you can do an antibody titer blood test to check if that puppy or kitten has antibodies after 15 weeks of age. If measurable antibodies are coming up, you know they have their own antibodies that those are not moms because moms are gone. But the reason the 16-week is considered the end of the series or something beyond that is because we know maternal antibody is gone by 15 weeks. So that vaccine after that time should take effect and support that pet's body to make their own antibodies there on forward.
SPEAKER_00So what what like vaccines would you recommend? Because I'd like we've had like a lot of um in the UK, there's been a lot of people kicking off about is it leptophor? Leptospirosis. Yeah, so it's one of the leptos, there's like one leptospirosis vaccine. Okay. That and I look, I don't know a lot about it, if I'm honest. I just know there's people saying that like it's caused like real problems in some dogs. I think it's leptfor or something like that.
SPEAKER_03Okay, and I don't know what the four is for, but I'm sure you know that's within the you know, the the bacterial group of leptospirosis. And the thing with lepto is that it is recognized as one of the vaccines, or it could be a portion of a multiple-way, you know. They used to do like a five-way or six or seven-way vaccine, which has distemper and parvo and coronavirus and lepto and like all this stuff in one, which I never would advocate for. And we know so much more now than we did decades ago, that separating those out is so much safer on the immune system. But a lot of veterinarians in the US for decades took out lepto because it was the most problematic in causing reactions for dogs. Um, more um represented in small breeds than large breeds, but definitely across the board, lepto caused more reactions than all of the other vaccines. And so a lot of people were taking it out because there are a lot of regions that never see lepto, or very, very minimally, it's just not a high risk. Like Distemper and Parvo are hardy viruses. They're out there, they're they, you know, there's so much exposure. But lepto is honestly it's a bacterial disease. It's a treatable disease. Unless you get to it in super advanced stages, it is very treatable. It responds to doxycycline or tetracycline class of antibiotics. And because it's a bacterial disease, the vaccine doesn't last for a long time, a duration of immunity, like viral vaccines typically do. Um, and so you got to boost a lot more often. Doesn't it come from like drinking like wildlife and water reservoirs?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was gonna say it's like water reservoirs.
SPEAKER_03Lakes, ponds, definitely from wildlife and urine it can be transmitted through urine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, if a dog does get it, they can get febrile, lethargic, bloody urine, et cetera. So um a lot of veterinarians are used to, you know, if there's those kinds of symptoms, they would test for lepto. It's easily tested for as well.
SPEAKER_00Did you say they used to bundle vaccines into yes? Is that a bad thing? So I feel like I feel like like seven things in one. That that sounds really efficient.
SPEAKER_03Efficient, exactly. Except when your immune system goes haywire because it's like, dude, you're asking me to do all this shit at one time? Seriously? Also, when you do a integrative people tend to call it combo wombo, you know, vaccine where there's all this, you know, going on in one vaccine. If the pet has a reaction to it, so many things were given you don't even know what the reaction was to. So even if you wanted to be more sensible in the future for that pet and avoid certain things that might have triggered them, you don't even know what it was because there were seven things in that vaccine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So that's a whole nother issue.
SPEAKER_00Do they still do that though? Do they still like give give not as much.
SPEAKER_03It's not standard like it used to be, but there are still some veterinarians who are. And there, and there are some veterinarians that are including things in that have been established to just not be necessary, like coronavirus. It's a sub-clinical, you know, disease state. You know, I mean, it just doesn't even really produce symptoms. And it's so young, it only affects the puppies in, you know, very young ages, like below eight weeks. By the time you vaccinate for it, it's literally not even a problem for them anymore. So again, An easy one to cross off the list. You know, there's a lot of canine flu, usually not, you know, not necessary and not recommended by a lot of um, you know, leading authority immunologists. The other thing though that I do want to bring up is the ability to use supportive tools after a vaccination to help the body adjust after the vaccine too. And so in my own line, I have a line of products that are homeopathic, Dr. Katie's remedies. I have a dental product too. Um, but most of my products to date are homeopathy remedies. And those really shine as a tool to give after an immune challenge to help support the body in eliminating, you know, some of the adjuvants and chemicals and things that are in the vaccine that might continue to trigger the immune system and you know, remedies that help the lymphatic system to drain and you know, just to support immune balance. So that's a lovely thing to do after a needed vaccine.
SPEAKER_00And it's safe to use alongside anything and at any age as well, isn't it? Yes. I think that's the thing with puppies, is like everybody's obsessed with like, is this suitable for puppies?
SPEAKER_03Yes. And so all it homeopathy can be used in all ages, all species. I mean, chickens, you know, emus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Emus in his family. Yeah. Um, but literally all species, and um, and as you mentioned, there's no interference of homeopathy with anything else.
SPEAKER_00You're sort of saying there's like three different vaccines, which you definitely should get, and then the rest are kind of optional after that.
SPEAKER_03For the most part.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Pretty good summary.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Um then But what I was gonna say is like well, I'm not being flippant. Um, the problem is is like when you go to vets, and like especially a lot of vets are corporate vets, and they are they they more and more corporate medicine is coming. People have a deference to vets. So, like when you go and you say, Well, actually, I don't want to get like your combo wombo, your combo wombo injection. I want to like break it into like different constituent parts. Like, well, it's I'm I'm I'm wearing a green jacket, so combo wombo it is, or kind of get out of my surgery. And they're kind of a bit like that, to be honest. They kind of say, Well, no, no, it this is I went to veterinary college and you know, my my my overlords tell me this is what I have to sell. So, how do you kind of deal with that as like a normal member of the public?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I and and that's a really good segue into supporting people who are getting new pets into choosing their primary veterinarian. You know, they're they're supportive veterinarian. You know, that's literally part of your pet's healthcare team. I mean, you want to choose wisely and you know, really have a little bit of intention in the process of choosing a vet. And not everybody has access, perhaps in their local region to an integrative veterinarian, but um, you know, many integrative veterinarians practice primary, you know, primary practice. They're there as a regular vet, but they also have an integrative or holistic focus. So you're getting the best of both worlds. There are some holistic veterinarians that don't do everything that a primary vet does, like myself in my practice. Um, I don't do full service practice before. I used to. I used to do surgeries and dentals and all that kind of stuff, and now I'm much more focused. So I like to tell people, at least if they're seeing someone like me, select a primary vet who you like that, you know, is is good to work with, and then, you know, tap into your holistic or integrative vet for, you know, those needs and those services. Um, but for some people it's just, you know, finding that one entity that can support them best.
SPEAKER_00But and but I do think with people with vets, they sometimes look at them like they should they are a specialist on everything for whatever reason. And I think that like actually just being a little bit more questioning and actually like preloading yourself so you actually know as much as you can. So when you walk in and they're they've got the combo bombo out, you're like, absolutely not.
SPEAKER_03Right. And you can ask respectfully, and you know, you can have the respectful boundaries of, hey, this is you know what I've learned and this is what you know the the angle I want for my pet. And I love to support people to be the best advocate for their pet. So people need to remember that they are the parent that they are the pet parent. It's like, you know, with your human child, you if you are not their strongest and and best and most informed advocate, who's gonna be? You know, and it's good to select a veterinarian you feel good working with to the best of your ability. Um, but it's also really important to know that you are you've pet parents very much have an important and significant role in decision making for their pets.
SPEAKER_00For me personally, like I've got at least one dog that wouldn't be here today if I wasn't able to push back against my vet because they were yeah, they just wanted to put her down, even though I knew she liked it.
SPEAKER_03And what a beautiful story, and the influence that that gave you uh clearly has come out in your work in sharing things with other people, and so that in and of itself leaves a legacy for other people to gain from, yeah, which is a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_00Right. So what's next? What what else do we need to know about a puppy?
SPEAKER_03So spay and neuter would be another thing, and we can have a whole episode on that because the whole endocrine system, spay and neuter thing is a huge spot of focus.
SPEAKER_00Let's just do top line though, because I think like ideas are changing on it because like it was like people were like literally like neutering at like crazy young ages. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I was a shelter vet, I did for years from uh the late 90s to 2005 and even beyond, and then I was still a um a shelter vet after that, but not full time. I mean, I did like 30 spawn neuters a day. And that was before we understood the ramifications of doing it so young, because but by US requirements in shelters and local and state laws and such, pets have to be spayed and neutered before they can be adopted out, which you can understand from the overpet population angle of things and the concern of the homeless pets being euthanized, um, that obviously the spaying and neutering before they're adopted had had a a basis, a a you know, a sensible basis to it, but strictly from the health standpoint of that individual animal, now we know far different that that is not serving their health well. And not only are they linking, you know, cancers, but also um joint and ligament problems, ACL ruptures, um, and all the way up to literally just chronic inflammation. You know, and there's just been huge discussions from a lot of, you know, prominent um integrative veterinarians, Dr. Karen Becker, Dr. Peter Debias, you know, big discussions, even conventional veterinarians are are starting to, the trend is to recommend that people wait. But definitely in the integrative space, we're telling people to wait at least until they're mature. Eight, you know, 12 to 18 months for a small breed dog, 18 to 24 months for a large breed dog, but considering keeping them intact lifetime.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's my understanding in Europe, a lot of people keep their pets intact. I think it's a very different lifestyle trend than in the US.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it is. I I would say like cats are different because again, like in Europe, there's a lot more people that let their cats out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And it is good to bring up that cats are very different because they cycle differently, and a lot of the data that's being demonstrated about issues with dogs that are spayed and neutered early have not been found in cats. So even a lot of the advocates for leaving them intact would err more on spaying and neutering of cats after they're mature. That would still be our goal. Um, but not necessarily leaving them intact lifelong the way that we are really trying to, you know, encourage people to do for dogs.
SPEAKER_00I think where cats like um also are people, like there's still a a sizable percentage of cat owners that let their cats just go off and go toilet in other people's gardens and like yeah, get other cats pregnant and stuff. There's like there's kind of that thing where it's kind of like, yeah, probably probably don't let your cat go around. Exactly. Right. So what else have we got?
SPEAKER_03What to do about flea and tick control, um, especially people that are interested in a more natural approach and wanting to avoid and minimize chemicals um going into their bodies or on their bodies all the time. And that is a really good goal because the cumulative effects of toxins throughout the life of a pet or anybody, a human in today's world is a lot. And just you can't think of, you know, I'm just putting it on them now. It's next month and next month and next month. And even one dose alone could, of course, create an adverse event or a reaction. But what I really like to promote and recommend is intentional use of things and obviously efforts to minimize the number of chemicals in their lives. I'm not an all or nothing. I'm not gonna sit on a soapbox and say, never ever, ever, you know, use a flea chemical product. But I certainly like to support people to exhaust all natural means first, you know, tap into all your natural things, your essential oil-based flea and tick products, diatomaceous earth, um, you know all of those types of strategies that um can be employed before you turn to a chemical and not just blanketly giving them something every month just because we can and call that prevention. When we are addressing fleas and ticks and trying to prevent or get rid of them, a layered approach is always a sensible thing, meaning it's just as important to treat your environment, meaning your house, as it is to address the pet, because more fleas are living in the environment than on the pet. And they get a blood meal and they jump off and they go lay a thousand eggs. And then there's, you know, hundreds of them laying thousands and thousands of eggs. And so it's really important to address the environment, or once you treat your pet, they just all still have to jump on the pet to get the well.
SPEAKER_00We used to see two bursts in sales. We used to see the sales during the summer, and then like obviously the UK it's cold, and like we also used to see a burst in like October-ish when everyone used to turn the heating on because it would like heat all the eggs up, and then and then like their pets would get covered in like the freeze off the eggs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So there was like the two bursts.
SPEAKER_03And then the other, you know, piece of the conversation that I love to share everybody with the knowledge we have now is that the new oral pills, the newer generation of stuff, um, lots of brands, you know, in the US that that fit this, we thought, you know, we're cleaner, simpler, you're not putting chemicals on them, but they're swallowing these, ingesting these, and they are getting systemic, meaning through the body, toxins in their system. And for most of these new, you know, pill type products, the oral products, there's a neurotoxin. These are neurotoxins that are getting, you know, into the bloodstream of the pet, and the flea or tick has to bite, get a toxic blood meal to die. And so a lot of pets are getting neurologic problems. And there can be other issues like, you know, liver disease and liver failure, but there's certainly, you know, seizures and neurologic stuff and ataxia and wobbling and you know, even up to fatal. But there's but point being is there's a lot more adverse events and more severe adverse events with the oral pills than there ever was with all the topicals. So a lot of integrative, natural, holistic veterinarians such as myself, are steering people to well, always using natural products first as your first option, but steering people back toward some of the topicals that are seen to be safer as opposed to just Is it certain types of year you put it on, or would you just like do it if you saw a problem? Or I like to be selective to if people see a problem. Like during the seasons of the year where in your area, you know, anybody's individual area where there may be fleas or tick. No, now ticks are a big deal too. So ticks carry tick-borne diseases, like that's a whole nother thing that you know is is a significant issue. Fleas are no fun to deal with and can cause a lot of problems, but they don't carry, you know, significant diseases like ticks. So if people are in a tick endemic region or there's times of the year where they're going out with their dogs and hiking and doing stuff where there's exposure, I would be more apt to use a product, although there are some natural things that of course can be used there too. But to answer your question more directly, I would minimize, depending on their lifestyle, the season, and their risk rate. And so I would only use it really when you need to. So I think that's a really good thing to talk about.