It's just that everybody needs more omega-3s. Almost everyone is omega-3 deficient. And this includes our pets. And I know this because I've been routinely testing omega-3 levels for several years now. And nine out of ten dogs are low in omega-3. And many of them are significantly low. Together, an industry disruptor.
SPEAKER_01And renowned veterinarian discuss and debate, establish norms and new ideas in the pet world.
SPEAKER_00This is challenging pet health.
SPEAKER_01Morning, Casey.
SPEAKER_00Hey Clayton, good morning.
SPEAKER_01How are you saying I'm phenomenal?
SPEAKER_00How are you?
SPEAKER_01Sensational. Thank you very much for asking. Absolutely. So I recently just had like a full health panel which told me how goddamn healthy I am, because I'm extremely healthy. And uh maybe one of the healthiest people ever. But actually, quite possibly. One of the things that came up was my Amiga levels, my Amiga-3 levels, which were very, very good, I believe. Uh 3.4.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Which is just fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Little room for improvement, but but still very good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, when you consider like I have like a very strict sort of health routine that I go through. So yeah, so I thought we'd talk about omegas.
SPEAKER_00I love that because it is such an important topic for health for everyone, humans and pets. And it's a huge point of interest for pet parents. And there are a ton of omega-3 products, obviously, on the market and a lot of products that include omega-3. And you've got such a great product, you know, in manufacturing and distribution. But from a medical standpoint or a healthcare standpoint, I love to promote omega-3s for pets. And quite frankly, most pets are not getting enough. Even on fresh food diets, even on raw food diets, um, I routinely test omega-3. So I'm so proud of you for getting yours tested. Yeah, right. And it's something that I routinely recommend testing for other nutrients as well. But omega-3s are so important for many organ systems in the body. We can get into that, but also just for anti-inflammatory. And that speaks to all overall wellness, you know, well-being. So it's such an important nutrient to talk about. And there's so many products out there I think it'll be fun to help people figure out how to choose a good product for their pet.
SPEAKER_01So what are omega-3s and why are they important?
SPEAKER_00The omega-3 fatty acids that we're talking about today, DHA and EPA, are specifically long-chain fatty acids that are known to be very protective for cellular damage, inflammation, or what we call, you know, ox oxidation of the cells, free radical damage of the cells, et cetera. And so this is involved in the aging process and you know all chronic inflammation. And so we know these omega-3s help protect our cells to repair, you know, from that.
SPEAKER_01So let's start off by just talking about the different types of omega-3s, right? So EPA D H A. Because again, I think when I was young, the only one we ever used to look at was cod liver oil. So like if you go back to the 80s, 90s, when I was sort of young in the industry, we all we like there was we weren't talking about salmon oil, we weren't talking about sardine oil, krill oil, all these different oils. It was just cod liver oil. And we always used to recommend that historically for young dogs for brain function.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And cod liver oil happens to be higher in the ratio of DHA versus EPA. And DHA is very um specifically recognized for helping brain development, neural, nervous, you know, tissue, eye and retina development as well, or health, I should say. And so literally back in the 30s and 40s, they they would give cod liver oil out. There's historical pictures of lining the kids up at school and everybody getting their spoonful of cod liver oil at school because they're growing children's with with developing brains, and cod liver oil was a superstar supplement to support that.
SPEAKER_01Because then we had like, let's say, salmon oil coming in, which I believe is much higher in EPA rather than DHA. Could be wrong.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so a lot of fish oils are, yep.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And so again, so that then led to people almost ditching cod liver oil because they didn't know what it did. Yep. And moving to southern.
SPEAKER_00It sounded more gross.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it sounds kind of. But it doesn't it doesn't sound I mean, like krill oil sounds fantastic, right? No, that's totally it sounds like you know, yeah. Yeah, super sort of cool waters, you know, Antarctic.
SPEAKER_00It's like it doesn't sound like it tastes like fish. Yeah, it doesn't matter. People think of cod liver oil and they already make a face.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it kind it kind of sounds gross, right? Yeah, we stopped talking about cod liver oil and we went to salmon oil, which again functionally is different. I always believed it was more of a skin and coat product.
SPEAKER_00You are exactly right, because I can just add in right there that EPA, which is in a higher ratio in a lot of fish oils, including salmon, EPA is really um more targeted for anti-inflammatory than DHA is. These long-chain omega-3 fatty acids both are protecting cells from oxidation, from inflammation. So they're both, you know, protecting from cellular degradation or cellular damage. So that is a huge reason why they're so helpful for the entire body, because they're protecting our cells in general. But there's very specific targeted things that they can do for certain organ systems. And because EPA is really functioning in the anti-inflammatory cascade of things, it's exceptional for joints and for skin and hair coat as well. And it also is really good for cardiac, you know, support. Um, whereas the DHA, again, the brain, the you know, eye, but together they are a you know comprehensive pair of support for the body that are really essential for all of us and very, very important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, come to 2026, that is a time of supplements and time of people selling all kinds of things. Now we're talking about you know, krill oil, sardine oil, algo oil, hemp oil, linseed. Yes, linseed oil.
SPEAKER_00Like there's like flaxseed oil, hemp oil, so those are the plant oils.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so I feel like the whole category now is so confusing. It is cool that actually like just to break down like what everything does, understand like you know, like as a consumer, how do you even know what the hell to look for anymore? Exactly. Because look, the penistry is highly about marketing. So and like, you know, it's should should I be buying an Antarctic krill oil or should I be buying a salmon oil or should I be buying cod liver oil or should you know, and what is the difference and why why are we selling all these different types of oils, you know?
SPEAKER_00A lot of people understand now that salmon and a lot of the larger fish, because generally when salmon are caught for consumption, they are very large, you know, fish in the ocean. So they've had a lot of time to accumulate heavy metals. Mercury is one that a lot of people are very familiar with that is a high, highly contaminant in salmon and tuna. And so now we're told by all the health experts, don't eat too much fish. Don't eat fish every day, or you're gonna have a lot of heavy metals and mercury in your body. Same thing with our pets. So along came, you know, the sardine anchovy. And I mean, sardines date back at in our country, you know, World War II. I mean, the canned sardines, but now they really hit the market as a good source of omega-3s, and they're often blended with anchovy. So you see a lot of sardine anchovy blends. And I'm a big fan of feeding sardines as a functional food for, you know, to be in pet diets, um, dogs and cats, it's a great thing to do for cats who might be selective and finicky about supplements in their food. And I've commonly said the average-sized cat, one sardine three times a week, is a really nice, you know, kind of a support regimen. But for dogs, I promote sardines too, because sardines and anchovies being very small fish on the bottom of the food chain, they're estimated to have little to no mercury and heavy metals compared to the salmon and the tuna. So a lot of companies are flipping over to doing those fish because they're less, you know, contaminated, safer.
SPEAKER_01But also, my understanding was, again, from when I used to market sardine oil, that it actually has a much higher concentration of omega-3s compared to salmon.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01It was like, why is sardine more expensive than salmon and why would I give it? And this was before the talk of mercury and oxidation and all this sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_00Contamination, it was concentration.
SPEAKER_01It was concentration of omega-3s, is that it contains a much higher concentration. So you don't have to give as much. So if you've got a dog which um is on a more calorie-controlled diet, that it's a it's a better way of getting the omega-3s into them because you don't have to give so much as much oil.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Which is, I think, always almost always an asset in using less products. So I love to talk about concentration of omega-3s too, and how to read a label. Um, and we can, you know, get into that. But I think giving less, you know, the ability to give less oil for as much or more of what we're after, the omega-3, you know, milligram volume, um, is an asset because you know, anybody with a sensitive GI tract, sensitive gut, sometimes more oil in the food can be an issue. Finicky dogs that maybe just don't like the flavor or cats, the less that you have to give to get in, you know, the benefit and the value is awesome.
SPEAKER_01I just want to like also tackle something which I thought was a thing, but then someone told me it wasn't a thing, which is the omega-threes to omega-six ratio.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that is a a big, you know, uh central conversation that's been happening in the scientific community, the medical community.
SPEAKER_01Because it was always like you have to balance your threes with your sixes. And then I read this thing, I don't know, a little while back, which said, no, you don't.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's garbage.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I just learned that recently too. Um I'm, you know, more information's coming out and and different things, you know, kind of get outdated, obviously, with with um beliefs and concepts around what's best. But um, for a long time everybody said that, you know, the omega-6s are way too high in the standard modern day diet, and even for pets, you know, on processed food, et cetera. And so we were trying to bring our omega-3s closer to the omega-6, and everyone was focusing on the ratio. Like the ratio of threes has to be better to sixes than what it is, because a lot of people it's like 20 to 1. And we want it more to be like four to one or five to one of sixes to threes. Um, and so a lot of the focus was on that. And so there are tests available for testing the ratio of omega-6s to threes. I I flipped over from my omega-3 index test to that test for a little while when, you know, really under the belief system that that was the main thing to be looking at. But with the new data coming out saying we just need to add more omega-3s, the ratio is not the important piece of things. It is nice to say that I saw that in a reflection of my testing, which is why I went back to the omega-3 index testing, because the ratio could look great. It could look like it's four to one or five to one, six to three. Yet I would take that same exact pet, same, you know, week or month, test the omega-3 level, and it's totally low. Because omega-6s have their health value as well. It's just that everybody needs more omega-3s. Almost everyone is omega-3 deficient. And this includes our pets. And I know this because I've been routinely testing omega-3 levels for several years now. And 90% of dogs, and I don't test as many cats, but it's about the same. Um, but I test many, many dogs, and nine out of ten dogs are low in omega-3, and many of them are significantly low. So, you know, now we know that, you know, this, you know, this deficiency is definitely a big issue, and that's playing into all kinds of inflammatory levels in the body.
SPEAKER_01What do you see as being important in an omega-3 product?
SPEAKER_00When you look at a label, on the front of the label, it may say a thousand milligrams of omega-3 per serving, per whether it's two capsules is the serving or one teaspoon of oil is the serving. On the front of the label, it'll say X number of milligrams of total omega-3s. But we have to remember there are omega-3s that are not DHA and EPA. And so when you turn the bottle over and you look at the specific, you know, um column on the back that's listing everything, what the consumer really should be doing is looking at how much DHA and EPA are in there. Because you may have a total combined only 700 milligrams of DHA, EPA in the whole serving, yet the front of the label says there's a thousand. So if you're calculating your dose or your pet's dose on what the front of the label says, that is the whole category of omega-3. That's not specifically DHA EPA.
SPEAKER_01Does that make the other 300, let's say, in that scenario, redundant?
SPEAKER_00Not necessarily redundant because those can be important too. And this is a good lead into the plant oils conversation. It's not necessarily redundant because other omega-3s can be useful, but we want to make sure we get enough EPA and DHA because most people and pets are not getting enough. So when you're wanting to get the most value out of your supplement and your intention, your target of, you know, the value of that supplement, you really want to be calculating your EPA, DHA total, you know, number. And that leads into the plant oil discussion, is that, and this is quite frankly one of my pet peeves about a lot of products. So I would love to hear your take on this, being such a product expert and um, you know, really looking deeper into what's going on in products. But there are so many products out there that are like combo products that have a bunch of stuff in them for all kinds of stuff, all health factors, multivitamins and joint stuff and et cetera. And it'll say good source of omega-3 on the front of the label. And then you look at the ingredients and it's flaxseed oil or it's flaxseed. And they're saying omega-3. So there are omega-3s in that, but it's not DHA EPA. It's ALA, alpha alpha-linoleic acid. Okay. Humans have some capacity to convert that to DHA EPA. Dogs have very little, cats have just about zilch.
SPEAKER_01But that's kind of interesting because obviously there's, yeah, there's been so much buzz around things like hemp oil, for example, and which again is the most unpalatable stuff ever. Yeah. Like I've like it's like dogs don't like here. A line which I remember bringing to market was hemp oil mixed with sheep fat, just so we could like disguise the color, the taste of the hemp oil because dogs really didn't like it. But there was so much buzz around hemp oil that like people wanted the hemp oil on the shelf.
SPEAKER_00And someday we should have a whole discussion about hemp oil because there's a lot to unpack in that, because there's hemp seed oil, which is like flaxseed oil, which people use for their source of omega-3s. But then there's also hemp oil from the plant, which people are after the CBDs and the cannabinoids and the full spectrum, this and that. And so that's like a whole cool conversation we should dive into another time. And so when you see the label and it says flaxseed oil or hemp seed oil or even chia, those are omega-3s and they do have health value, but they're not EPA D H A. And that's an important distinction.
SPEAKER_01I actually love that sort of like wording as well, a good source of omega-3s. Because it's just typical marketing nonsense. Right. It's just like, you know, because what does that mean? A good source of what? Like it's like it's so vague. Like when we and this is the problem again with pet food marketing and like just looking on the shelf, is when anything says a good source of omega-3s, that doesn't tell you anything.
SPEAKER_00And let's be clear that ALA is an essential, you know, acid. It's not the same as EPA DHA. And there are very specific health benefits that we're after with those omega-3 fatty acids.
SPEAKER_01So, like from the perspective of omega-3s for pets, what we're really what you're really saying is we need to then like then just focus that down to marine-based products.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I used to be much more akin to choose a fish oil product, thinking that algae oil either wasn't as, you know, high of concentration or wasn't as high of, you know, quality or um, you know, really as much delivery of EPA DHA. And now there's a lot of new data coming out to show that algae oil is really a great option.
SPEAKER_01My understanding of algae oil was always that the fish get the omega-3s from the algae and that by using algae oil you're really getting to the source. That that was what I was more efficient. That's what I was.
SPEAKER_00It's a revelation for me. I didn't even realize that until I really started getting some of the new data coming out. And it's true what you said is that fish don't inherently have a ton of EPA DHA in their, you know, muscle meat in their body. They are getting it because they're consuming this algae, you know, out of the ocean and they're accumulating all of this in their bodies. And then therefore, we extract it out, you know, of the fish as oil. But if we go straight to the algae, that's sparing a lot of fish. I mean, clearly it's more sustainable. They're now growing algae, you know, sustainably just to produce this. And here's another cool little factoid is that historically most algae species were giving more DHA than EPA. So a lot of algae oils, algal oils, would have a higher DHA content. So you might be missing out on the benefits of the EPA, which remember, joints and skin coming from the, you know, really from the EPA. But now they are um harvesting different species. They're focusing on different species of algae that create higher levels of EPA that come a little closer to the DHA. And then the other thing, too, is a lot of people do worry about fish um allergies or fish sensitivities that their pets may have. A lot of the lipid experts, meaning the oil, you know, experts, say that that really shouldn't be a thing because the oil is extracted, which is pure fat. There's no protein in it, and usually it's a protein allergy that's coming from the fish. That said, I've still had a lot of clients report to me through the years that their pets seem to react to fish oils and they put them on an algae oil and they and they do better. So there's a lot of reasons why a pet parent may want to reach for an algae oil. What I will say that is also really great is that in the past, when I would compare algae oils to fish oils, a lot of the ones that I was looking at, the algae oils would be less concentrated. And so I was like, oh, you can give less oil for the, you know, if you use the fish oil, you don't have to give as much volume in your pet's food. But there's several algae oils out now for pets that have really good concentration levels and quite frankly, sometimes better than the fish oil. So now, for several reasons, I'm kind of leaning into the algae oil, and clients, pet parents are really liking that.
SPEAKER_01I think also, look, there is a thing that not all oils are equal. So when you look at like let's say a salmon oil or a krill oil or whatever, that actually you do need to check the levels of omega-3s in there because the concentration can vary enormously. And and again, it's it's to do with how it's processed and like look, you know, you can get very, very, very high concentration omega omega-3 ores, which are very expensive.
SPEAKER_00Um, but that's also an important reason why people should be looking at the label is quality and testing. Does it say that every batch is independently tested? Is there, you know, COAs of you know certification to say that these are clean? Are they, you know, independently assessed, et cetera? One um sort of qualifier that I would say, which isn't totally foolproof, but I think it's close. If it's packaged in a plastic bottle, I would not buy it for yourself or for your pet. Maybe, you know, there are some uh metal stainless steel bottles, you know, some good products that come in that. Um, and there's a lot of good products that are packaged in glass and specifically a dark-colored glass to protect it from light and heat, because light heat and oxygen cause spoilage or what we call oxidation of the fish oil. And once it starts to oxidize, which essentially means it's going rancid, it is actually more harmful to our cells than protective. And the whole reason we take it in the first place or give it to our pet is to protect our cells from inflammation and you know, degeneration. So storage not only is processing and cold processing of fish oils, bottling and packaging is really important, but refrigeration and storage, once the consumer has the product. What I like to tell people is as soon as you open the bottle and that seal is broken, keep it in the fridge. Even if the bottle and most bottles do say it, but it's tiny little print and people don't read that. Um, some marine oils may just say keep in a dark, you know, cool place or a dark, dry place. It doesn't mean you can't refrigerate it. It means that they're testing of you know quality uh for whatever length, you know, it says on the Best Buy date is adequate, but it it's still better in the fridge.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, and I think that's one thing we've kind of that's been more hot in the last five years on because again, look, you had let's say the fish oils went from nothing twenty years ago to being huge overnight. And then yeah, obviously the the the fastest way is just to make it as cheap as possible. So to put it in a plastic bottle. Plastic bottles are dirt cheap. Right.
SPEAKER_00And then like and easier to ship and lighter weight, and I see. The cost factor, but plastic will leach, you know, the the oils will leach some of the microplastics into it. It's just not a safe way to store.
SPEAKER_01And also a lot of them are in clear bottles and that sort of stuff, because again, like people like to see the people like to see the product. So I think that's a a good qualifier, at least to you know, as a as a basic line of I mean one thing I do find generally with foot fish oils and algorithms is that there really isn't that many producers globally of these things. So it's not unlike some products which you could almost do in your kitchen and have very, very poor quality standards behind, to actually do like fish oils properly. There's generally a small amount of big players in like different areas, so you know, Norwegian salmon oil, Scottish salmon oil, like they tend to dominate the salmon oil market, and then Antarctic krill, you know, and it it it's not like people are catching fish in their back garden and and like squeezing them right like wringing them out. So a lot of these brands may be getting from a small amount of sources or yes, so generally speaking, like the testing side of it is pretty straightforward, like for them to get those um COAs to get that like correct testing level because these are big companies usually doing it, um, and it's the machinery you need to do it effectively is pretty expensive.
SPEAKER_00But these these brands, the smaller companies that are putting the product out to market, they're getting large supplies from the producers, and then they're bottling it, etc. Because each company is gonna be different.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, for sure. They're normally what's happening is let's say there's a couple of major producers, like one in Norway, one in uh Scotland. For example, I phone them up and I say how much for like a a one-ton that of salmon oil, this is what I'm looking for, like, and they'll have a few different grades, and then you pick your grade based on your price, and then you can get that sent either to your co-packer or to your own bottling plant, and then you bottle it yourself. This is why I say it's important to actually check the amount of um DHA EPA on the bottle, the actual because there's different grades. Okay. If I went to a salmon oil supplier and I said I want to buy some salmon oil, they've that they haven't just got one salmon oil sitting there, believe it or not. It's not like they just put it all into one big basket, they generally grade it for quality. Wow. And so you can buy different grades of salmon oil. So there'll be ones which are crappier than others. And like, look, it depends what you're using it for.
SPEAKER_00Like looking lesser quality.
SPEAKER_01Generally speaking, if you're using it in like, let's say, a kibble-like recipe, you're you're generally not buying the high-quality salmon oil. You're just gonna buy the normal, like, because again, you're saying, well, we used X amount of salmon oil.
SPEAKER_00But that brings me to a really interesting question, which you may know the answer to with your background in manufacturing, is that a concern for you know, of mine, of course, is any oils that are heated, you know, as part of the food production process. And so omega-3 oils, if they're in a food, which I would not buy a food that touts, oh, we have omega-3s in it, like I would put omega-3s in fresh every day. Like that's not something you want to rely on your cooked food to give you. And so if a bag of dog food says it's got omega-3s in it, it's touting this you know, formula is great for skin and it's fortified with omega-3s. Are they putting those omega-3s in after it goes through ultra-processed massive amounts of heat, et cetera?
SPEAKER_01Normally, I mean look, there's two ways of doing there's there's two ways of doing it. So, like you during the kibling process, you have the kibbling process.
SPEAKER_00Then a uh scientific process. That's it.
SPEAKER_01I only talk in scientific terms. So during the kibbling process, things are all fed into a central thing mixed and then and then sent through the the extruder. And then what they do normally, they spray it, and now the spray they put on it can be a number of different things. Like we uh we said before on a different podcast, you've got something like blood plasma, which you which you spray on. Another thing they use a lot is let's say other palatants. So it is possible for them to spray on their omega-3s.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's so interesting.
SPEAKER_01But I would say 90% of the time, if they're saying salmon oil's in the mix, it's going, it's going into the main mix.
SPEAKER_00And not afterwards.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay, that's huge.
SPEAKER_01And one thing I would say is just from an industry standpoint, is so for example, salmon oil, sardine oil are quite cheap compared to krill oil and definitely algo oil. And a lot of that is to do with the the reasoning behind like why they're turned into oil. Algo algae oil is specifically designed to be turned into algae, whereas salmon oil, sardine oil are byproducts of other uses of that fish.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's kind of being processed for meat consumption for people or in dog food or whatever, it's and then the oil is part of that.
SPEAKER_01So this is why I'm also saying that you have to look in budget and say, like realistically, you know, if you can if you can't afford algae oil and crillo, then actually using sardino, for example, isn't isn't a bad way to go. I I don't generally recommend salmon oil anymore.
SPEAKER_00I don't really recommend salmon oil either. And it's not that I would say you can't use it or or you know, absolutely shouldn't use it, but I would lean into other oils because salmon oil tends to be very contaminated. An easy way of not having to deal with all of those contaminants is just moving away from salmon oil and gearing more towards starting an anchovy if we're choosing fish oil, or gearing more towards the things that aren't contaminated, contaminated, like we talked about with the algae oil and the krill oil, et cetera. That said, I think it is a nice distinction for me to tell people is that because I routinely omega-3 test, I have come to the realization that for most dogs, even with regular fish in their diet, is if, you know, not they're not eating just solely fish as their protein, but they're getting regular fish, sardines three times a week, et cetera, more than not, their omega-3 levels are still low. So I have seen that most pets still need, even if they have some fish in their diet, they still need a supplement on top of that to, you know, combine in for the the total need to get them to their optimal omega-3 level. And the other thing that I have found is that some pets, you know, you generally want to use the guidelines on the label, unless you really have a targeted dose of how much EPA DHA you think your pet should have, your veterinarian recommended this much, then, you know, figure out the dose for your pet. But if you don't have that idea or target in mind, then you're generally going to go by the label. Give if your pet weighs between 15 and 25 pounds, this is how much you give them, et cetera. But I would love everyone to know that I have seen some pets need 1.5 or maybe even two times what the label dose says to get them to optimal levels when we're doing blood tests. So I'm a big fan of blood tests. You just had yours done. And not everyone can be as healthy as you can. You didn't tell me what your result was.
SPEAKER_01It was 3.4, which out of five sounds fantastic.
SPEAKER_00You're right. For humans too, and for pets, five percent as an index level is the optimal, you know, range. And it can even go up to eight percent for dogs. So now that we know there's a little room for improvement for your level, are you going out to get some fish oils or some marine algae krill oil? What's on your plan for supplement regimen for Clayton?
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna be going out getting cold-pressed krill oil, which is which has been hand-picked from the uh the base of the Antarctic.
SPEAKER_00That is a great plan.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know. I I have all the best plans.
SPEAKER_00Thanks everyone for watching. And if you enjoyed this and thought it was useful, please remember to like and subscribe and share with other people as well. For anyone you know who has pets and wants to learn a little bit more about how to care for them well.