Philosophy's Not Boring
A groundbreaking podcast for curious kids aged 4-12, and the grown-ups listening with them, that proves philosophy, psychology and religion are anything but dull.
Join our fictional AI hosts Mira, a brilliant 9-year-old, and her younger brother Finn, age 7, as they explore philosophy, psychology and religion as one big family of questions about how we make sense of things. Each episode takes a real thinker or idea seriously, from what makes you the same person you were as a baby to why people across the world believe such different things about the soul, and then lands it somewhere in your actual life.
We don't hand you the answer and move on. Some questions have one; some have several worth comparing; some nobody has ever settled, and we'll tell you which is which. On matters of faith we stay even-handed: we describe what people believe from the outside, and never tell you what to believe yourself. Because philosophy isn't a pile of hard words to memorize. It's learning to ask a better question, and to sit with it honestly, even when it's uncomfortable.
A note on why we use AI. For us, AI allows us to deliver learning at a scale and quality that previously would have been too expensive. If we make the odd technical error, or the sound goes a bit funny, bear with us, we're trying our best. We hope you enjoy the show!
Philosophy's Not Boring
What was the marshmallow test?
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Welcome to Philosophy is not boring by kidopoly.com. I'm Mira! And I'm Finn. Okay, Finn, I want you to use your imagination for a second. Picture a single, perfectly squishy, powdery sweet marshmallow sitting on a plate right in front of you.
SPEAKER_01Ooh, I can totally picture it. I would eat it immediately.
SPEAKER_00Hold on, here is the catch. A scientist tells you that you can eat it right now. Or if you sit in that room all by yourself for 15 whole minutes without touching it, you get two marshmallows.
SPEAKER_01Ugh 15 minutes? If you're just sitting there staring at it, that is basically a hundred years.
SPEAKER_00Do you think you could do it? Today we're exploring one of the most famous psychology experiments ever run, the marshmallow test.
SPEAKER_01So it is literally just a test to see who really loves marshmallows the most.
SPEAKER_00Actually, it's way deeper than that. On this show we talk about philosophy, but we also talk about psychology, which is asking big questions about how our minds actually work. So we are asking big questions about our own brains. Exactly. And for decades, people thought this marshmallow test could predict your entire future, from your school grades to your whole life. But today we're going to see why real science means checking your facts. Because the truth turned out to be completely different. So, back in the late 1960s, a psychologist named Walter Michel set up this experiment at Stanford University.
SPEAKER_01Wait, he was a famous scientist, and his big idea was giving candy to kids.
SPEAKER_00Essentially, yes. He ran this test with four and five-year-olds at a place called Bing Nursery School.
SPEAKER_01Oh, so kids a couple years younger than me? Still, pretty little.
SPEAKER_00Right. But Michel wasn't just interested in candy. He was studying a big concept called delayed gratification.
SPEAKER_01Delayed gratifi-what? That sounds like a spell from a wizard movie.
SPEAKER_00It really does. Gratification is just a fancy word for getting something that feels good or rewarding. So delayed gratification means giving up a small reward right now, so you can get a much bigger reward later.
SPEAKER_01Oh wait! Like when I saved up my allowance for a whole month to buy that huge remote control car, instead of just buying a tiny candy bar at the grocery store that day.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. You delayed your gratification. And Walter Michel wanted to know: how do human beings actually do that? Because resisting something right in front of you is really, really hard.
SPEAKER_01Especially if I was four. If a marshmallow was right there, just staring at me. I don't know if my brain could handle it.
SPEAKER_00To make it even harder, he set up a special room that was completely blank. No toys, no books, no pictures on the walls, just a desk, a chair, and a plate with a treat.
SPEAKER_01That sounds like torture. A blank room with nothing to do but stare at a marshmallow. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00The researchers left the kids totally alone in that blank room and watched them through a hidden window to see what would happen.
SPEAKER_01What did the kids do? Did they just grab it?
SPEAKER_00Some kids popped it in their mouths the absolute second the door closed, but others really, really tried to hold out for the full 15 minutes. How?
SPEAKER_01If you just stare at it, wouldn't you go crazy?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Staring at it is exactly what you shouldn't do. The kids who successfully waited did hilarious things to distract themselves. Like what kind of things? They covered their eyes with their hands, they turned their chairs completely around to face the blank wall, so they couldn't even see the table.
SPEAKER_01Oh, out of sight, out of mind. That is actually really smart.
SPEAKER_00Some sang loud songs to themselves, kicked the desk, and one kid even gently petted the marshmallow like it was a tiny, squishy little animal.
SPEAKER_01A pet marshmallow. He was probably pretending it was a fluffy dog, so he wouldn't want to eat it.
SPEAKER_00You totally nailed it. Let's do a quick thought experiment. Tell me what makes a marshmallow tempting.
SPEAKER_01It's super squishy and white, and it tastes like sugary vanilla.
SPEAKER_00Right. Michelle called those hot thoughts. If you think about how sweet and chewy it is, the temptation is hot and you will eat it. But if you pretend it's a pet or a little white cloud, you cool the thought down.
SPEAKER_01Whoa, so willpower isn't just gritting your teeth, it is a trick you play on your own brain. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00But here is where the story gets a little messy, and why we always have to question the things we are told.
SPEAKER_01Uh-oh. What happened with the pet marshmallows?
SPEAKER_00Well, years later, Walter Michelle and other scientists checked in on those exact same kids when they were teenagers and adults.
SPEAKER_01And what did they find out?
SPEAKER_00For a long time, the famous story was that the kids who waited for two marshmallows did far better in life. They got higher test scores, and people claimed they were just more successful.
SPEAKER_01Wait, so if a kid ate the marshmallow right away, everyone thought they were doomed? That doesn't seem fair at all.
SPEAKER_00It isn't fair, and luckily, it also isn't entirely true. People loved the idea because it felt like a nice moral story. If you're good and patient, you succeed. But true psychology requires real evidence. So what did the real evidence say? In 2018, a scientist named Tyler Watts and his team did the experiment again. But this time they tested hundreds of kids from all sorts of different neighbourhoods and backgrounds. Oh, so they checked the facts on a bigger scale. Exactly! And they found that the ability to wait was actually tied heavily to a kid's family background, especially how much money their family had. Wait, why would money change how you look at a marshmallow? Think about it. If you grow up in a house where there's plenty of food and promises are always kept, waiting 15 minutes is easy. You know that second marshmallow is definitely coming.
SPEAKER_01Oh, but what if things are harder at home and sometimes the treats run out or promises get broken? Exactly.
SPEAKER_00If life is unpredictable, eating the treat right away is actually a really smart, logical choice, because tomorrow's treat isn't guaranteed. It meant eating it right away wasn't about being weak at all.
SPEAKER_01Wow, so all those people who judge the kids for eating the marshmallow early were totally missing the big picture.
SPEAKER_00They really were. The new studies showed that the link between waiting and later success was actually quite small once you looked at the kids' true life circumstances.
SPEAKER_01I like that so much better. It means a single marshmallow doesn't decide your destiny.
SPEAKER_00Exactly! And that is why psychology is so cool. It's not about labelling people as good or bad, it's about figuring out how our environments shape us.
SPEAKER_01So next time, I'm trying really hard not to eat the last chocolate chip cookie before dinner. I shouldn't just sit there staring at it and feeling bad.
SPEAKER_00Right! Turn your chair around, go play a game, or sing a loud song. Self-control is just a skill you can practice. Distraction is your best friend when waiting is hard. I'm gonna go pet the cookie like a tiny dog. That might make your hands a little melty, but sure, go for it. And here's a mind-bending fun fact for you. This experiment became so famous around the world that even Sesame Street did an episode about it. Wait, really? Who took the test? Cookie Monster, of course. He wanted to join the Cookie Connoisseurs Club, so he had to learn those exact self-control tricks to wait without gobbling everything up.
SPEAKER_01Whoa, if Cookie Monster can learn to cool down his hot thoughts and wait, I guess anyone can.
SPEAKER_00Alright, Finn, time for the quiz. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00First question. Who's the psychologist that ran the first marshmallow test? Next one, where did this famous first experiment take place? Question three. How long did the kids have to wait to get the second treat? Here's number four. What was one funny trick the kids used to distract themselves? Last question. What did later scientists find was a huge reason some kids waited and others didn't? Great job! Let's see how you did. The first answer is Walter Michelle. For question two, it took place at Stanford University in the 1960s. The third answer is they had to wait 15 long minutes. For question four, they covered their eyes, sang songs, turned around, or even petted the marshmallow. And the final answer is their family background, like how much money or stability they had at home.
SPEAKER_01You know, I really like that scientists went back and checked the marshmallow test again. It feels much fairer now that we know the whole story.
SPEAKER_00Me too, Finn. It just shows that it's okay to ask hard questions and keep testing the things we think we know. Nobody has all the answers right away. Do I still get a marshmallow for doing the podcast though? Only if you wait. Hey everyone, if you learned a new trick for waiting today, please give us a five-star review. Just scroll down and tap the stars.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and don't forget to check out our site kidopoly.com. We've got tons of fun learning games and activities there.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely! And if you want to shout out on the show, or just want to say hi, email us at hello at kidopoly.com.
SPEAKER_01See you next time on Philosophy Is Not Boring. Bye everyone.