Philosophy for Kids / Philosophy's Not Boring: The Kids Philosophy Podcast
A groundbreaking podcast for curious kids aged 4-12, and the grown-ups listening with them, that proves philosophy, psychology and religion are anything but dull.
Join our fictional AI hosts Mira, a brilliant 9-year-old, and her younger brother Finn, age 7, as they explore philosophy, psychology and religion as one big family of questions about how we make sense of things. Each episode takes a real thinker or idea seriously, from what makes you the same person you were as a baby to why people across the world believe such different things about the soul, and then lands it somewhere in your actual life.
We don't hand you the answer and move on. Some questions have one; some have several worth comparing; some nobody has ever settled, and we'll tell you which is which. On matters of faith we stay even-handed: we describe what people believe from the outside, and never tell you what to believe yourself. Because philosophy isn't a pile of hard words to memorize. It's learning to ask a better question, and to sit with it honestly, even when it's uncomfortable.
A note on why we use AI. For us, AI allows us to deliver learning at a scale and quality that previously would have been too expensive. If we make the odd technical error, or the sound goes a bit funny, bear with us, we're trying our best. We hope you enjoy the show!
Philosophy for Kids / Philosophy's Not Boring: The Kids Philosophy Podcast
What is Sufism?
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Welcome to Philosophy is not boring by kidopoly.com.
SPEAKER_01I'm Mira. And I'm Finn. Hey Finn, have you ever tried to make yourself better at something? Oh sure. Like trying to run faster at recess. Or practising my spelling words. Or trying to be more patient when my little sister takes my toys without asking.
SPEAKER_00Exactly! From the time we are really little, we are taught to improve ourselves. We try to get better grades, earn gold stars, and level up in video games. We spend a lot of time treating our self like a giant construction project.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, you want to build a smarter, nicer, stronger me. That's just what people do.
SPEAKER_00But what if we've got it all wrong? Today we are exploring a totally different, mind-bending idea. What if the goal of life isn't to improve your self at all?
SPEAKER_01It isn't? Then what are we supposed to do?
SPEAKER_00What if the ultimate goal is to stop being a separate you altogether?
SPEAKER_01Wait, stop being me? But if I'm not me, who am I?
SPEAKER_00How does that even work? Stick around, because we're about to dive into a tradition of poets and dancers who think losing yourself is the best thing you could ever do. Most of the time, we think ourself, our ego, our personality, the voice in our head that says, I want this, or that's mine, is the most important thing in the world.
SPEAKER_01It feels like the most important thing. When someone eats the last chocolate chip cookie, myself gets really mad. Mine too.
SPEAKER_00But inside the major world religion of Islam, there is a mystical tradition called Sufism, and Sufis look at the self very differently. How do they see it? They see the self, the ego, not as the true you, but as a veil. Like a heavy curtain that blocks you from seeing the truth of the universe and from connecting with God.
SPEAKER_01A veil. Like a curtain covering a window so you can't see outside. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00To really understand this, we need to meet a real historical person. His name was Jalaladin Rumi. He was a 13th century scholar and poet.
SPEAKER_01The 13th century? That was about 800 years ago.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Rumi was born in 1207, in a region that is near present-day Afghanistan and Tajikistan. But he spent most of his life in a city called Konya, which is in present-day Turkey. Was he always writing poetry about the self? Actually, no. For a long time, he was just a very serious teacher and scholar. But then he met a wandering mystic named Shams, who showed him that knowing things in your head wasn't enough. You had to experience love and let go of your ego. After that, Rumi started writing poems about how our me-me-me keeps us separated from the divine.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but I still don't completely get the veil thing. What does it actually mean that my ego is a veil?
SPEAKER_00Okay, picture this. Imagine you were going outside, but you were wearing a heavy winter coat, a thick wool hat, a scarf wrapped tightly around your face, and dark sunglasses. Right. You wouldn't feel the breeze, you wouldn't feel the warm sunshine on your skin, and you wouldn't see the true bright colours of the trees. The Sufi idea is that our ego, which they call the nafs, is exactly like those heavy winter layers.
SPEAKER_01Wait, so my worries, my pride, and me getting mad about the last cookie, those are the winter coat.
SPEAKER_00Yes, the nafs is all those layers of, I want this and I am better than them. Many Sufis believe that to truly connect with God, you shouldn't try to decorate the winter coat with fancy buttons. You have to take it off entirely.
SPEAKER_01Huh. So self-improvement is just sewing nice buttons on a coat that's blocking the sun anyway.
SPEAKER_00That is a brilliant way to say it, Finn. They don't want to improve the illusion of being separate. They want to wear the veil away, layer by layer, until there is nothing standing between them and the truth.
SPEAKER_01But wait, if I take off all my me layers, what's left? Do I just disappear? That sounds kind of scary to think about.
SPEAKER_00That is a really honest way to feel, Finn. It can sound very scary to let go of who we think we are. But Sufis don't see it as disappearing into nothing. They see it as finally joining with everything. Like a single drop of water finally falling into the ocean.
SPEAKER_01Oh. So you're not just a tiny, worried drop anymore, you are the whole ocean.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly how they describe it. And they have beautiful practices to help them feel this connection. One practice is called thhika, which is the rhythmic breathing and repeating of God's names to completely quiet the noisy mind. What else do they do? Do they just sit still? Not always. Have you ever heard of the whirling dervishes? They are part of the Mevlevi order, which was founded by Rumi's followers. They do a spinning practice called the Semar. Like a dance performance on a stage. It looks like a beautiful dance, but to them it's a deep, active prayer. They wear tall hats that symbolise the tombstone of the ego, and white robes for its shroud. As they spin, they put their right hand up toward the sky to receive blessings from God, and their left hand down toward the earth to pass those blessings to everyone else.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So they become like a bridge between the sky and the ground. They aren't spinning to show off, they are spinning to let go of themselves.
SPEAKER_00Now, you and I might not be Sufi mystics, and since we're exploring this from the outside, we can't test scientifically what happens to the soul when we let go. But have you ever felt a tiny piece of this in your own everyday life?
SPEAKER_01What do you mean, like losing myself?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Have you ever been so focused on drawing a picture or building a giant Lego spaceship that you completely forgot you existed?
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh, yes! Last week I was reading a really good adventure book, and I didn't even hear mum calling me for dinner. I forgot I was hungry. I forgot I was sitting in my room. I forgot I was Finn. I was just inside the story.
SPEAKER_00That is exactly it. Psychologists sometimes call that a flow state. It's that magical feeling where the you just melts away, and there's only the thing you love doing. When you aren't worried about being cool or being right, you're just perfectly part of the moment.
SPEAKER_01That's actually a really amazing feeling. It's a huge relief not to have to worry about being me for a little while.
SPEAKER_00And here are some mind-bending facts. During the summer, those whirling dervishers can spin on their left foot for nearly an hour without getting dizzy, completely lost in their connection to the divine.
SPEAKER_01An hour? I get dizzy after spinning on the playground for 10 seconds.
SPEAKER_00It's incredible. And Rumi, the poet who wrote about all this 800 years ago. His poems, originally written in Persian, are still some of the most read in the entire world today. People everywhere are still trying to understand that beautiful feeling of letting go. Alright, Finn, it's time for our favourite part! Quiz time.
SPEAKER_01Are you ready? Okay, I'm ready. Let's see if my naft was paying attention and remembers the answers.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure you'll do great. First question. What is the name of the famous 13th century Sufi poet we talked about today? Next one. What do Sufis call the ego or the self that acts like a heavy winter coat or a veil? Question 3. Think about the dancers. In the whirling prayer of the Semmer, which hand points up to the sky? Here's number four. What is the rhythmic repetition of God's names and breathing called? Last question. Geography time. What present day country did Rumi live in for most of his life? Great job! Let's see how you did. The first answer is Rumi. He's the poet who wrote about losing the ego. For question two, the ego or the self is called the nafs. Number three, the answer is the right hand points up to receive blessings from God, while the left points down. Question four. The rhythmic repetition of names is called thikur. And the final answer is he lived mostly in Turkey.
SPEAKER_01You know, Mira, I'm still wondering what it would really feel like to have no ego at all. To not worry about who gets the last cookie and just be the whole ocean instead of a single drop.
SPEAKER_00I know exactly what you mean. It's a huge, mysterious idea, and nobody has all the answers. It's totally okay to just sit and wonder about what that might feel like. That's the beautiful part of asking these big questions together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it actually feels really peaceful to think about. Hey, if you liked losing yourself in this episode and exploring big ideas with us, please leave us a five-star review.
SPEAKER_00Yes, please. Just scroll down on your podcast app and tap the five stars. It helps other kids find the show so we can all wander together. Oh, and don't forget to check out our site, kidopoly.com. We've got tons of fun learning games and activities waiting for you there.
SPEAKER_01And if you want a shout out on a future show or just want to say hi, send us an email at hello at kidopoly.com.
SPEAKER_00We love hearing from you. See you next time on Philosophy is not boring. Bye everyone. Keep wondering.