Philosophy for Kids / Philosophy's Not Boring: The Kids Philosophy Podcast
A groundbreaking podcast for curious kids aged 4-12, and the grown-ups listening with them, that proves philosophy, psychology and religion are anything but dull.
Join our fictional AI hosts Mira, a brilliant 9-year-old, and her younger brother Finn, age 7, as they explore philosophy, psychology and religion as one big family of questions about how we make sense of things. Each episode takes a real thinker or idea seriously, from what makes you the same person you were as a baby to why people across the world believe such different things about the soul, and then lands it somewhere in your actual life.
We don't hand you the answer and move on. Some questions have one; some have several worth comparing; some nobody has ever settled, and we'll tell you which is which. On matters of faith we stay even-handed: we describe what people believe from the outside, and never tell you what to believe yourself. Because philosophy isn't a pile of hard words to memorize. It's learning to ask a better question, and to sit with it honestly, even when it's uncomfortable.
A note on why we use AI. For us, AI allows us to deliver learning at a scale and quality that previously would have been too expensive. If we make the odd technical error, or the sound goes a bit funny, bear with us, we're trying our best. We hope you enjoy the show!
Philosophy for Kids / Philosophy's Not Boring: The Kids Philosophy Podcast
What is the Experience Machine?
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Welcome to Philosophy is not boring by kidopoly.com. I'm Mira and I'm Finn. Before we dive into today's big question, we have a very special hello to send out. A massive shout out to Ellis, who is nine, Rory, who is seven, and their little sister Asta, who is three.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they are listening all the way from Geneva and Newfoundland. This episode is for all three of you.
SPEAKER_00You know, Finn, thinking about Ellis, Rory and Asta playing together fits perfectly with today's question. Because we are talking about what makes the things we do actually matter.
SPEAKER_01Wait, what do you mean? Don't things matter just because they're fun?
SPEAKER_00Well, imagine this. What if I had a machine? And if you plugged yourself into this machine, it could give you any experience you ever wanted.
SPEAKER_01Any experience? Like hitting a game-winning home run, or flying in space, or eating a giant mountain of chocolate ice cream.
SPEAKER_00Exactly! And here is the trick. Once you plug in, you completely forget you are in a machine. It feels 100% real.
SPEAKER_01Whoa, so my brain would think I'm actually in space.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you wouldn't know it was fake. It would just feel like the most amazing, happy, perfect life imaginable. But your real body would just be floating in a tank in a laboratory.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that sounds a little weird.
SPEAKER_00Here is the big question, Finn. If you could plug into that machine for the rest of your life, would you do it?
SPEAKER_01Wait, for the rest of my life? I can never come out.
SPEAKER_00Nope. You plug in and you stay there forever. But remember, inside the machine, you are perfectly happy. You never feel sad, you never get hurt, you just have incredible adventures.
SPEAKER_01Man, that's a tough choice. Part of me says yes, because it sounds awesome, but part of me says absolutely no way.
SPEAKER_00That exact feeling of no way is what a famous philosopher named Robert Nozick was looking for. He came up with this thought experiment in 1974.
SPEAKER_01Why did he invent a fake machine? Just to mess with people?
SPEAKER_00Sort of. He was trying to test an idea called hedonism. Hedonism is the belief that the only thing that matters in life, the only thing that makes a life good, is feeling pleasure and avoiding pain.
SPEAKER_01Well, feeling happy is really good, and feeling pain is bad. That kinda makes sense. Right.
SPEAKER_00It sounds totally reasonable. But Nozick said, wait a minute, if hedonism is completely true, then every single person should want to plug into the experience machine immediately.
SPEAKER_01Oh, because the machine gives you maximum happiness and zero pain.
SPEAKER_00Exactly! If all that matters is how you feel on the inside, the machine is the ultimate jackpot.
SPEAKER_01But wait, if I asked my friends, I bet almost all of them would refuse to go in.
SPEAKER_00And that is exactly what happens. When people are asked this question, almost nobody says yes.
SPEAKER_01Most people refuse to plug in. So what does that mean? If we don't want the perfect happiness machine, what do we actually want?
SPEAKER_00That's the brilliant part. Nozick said our refusal to plug in proves something huge. It proves that feeling happy is not the only thing we care about.
SPEAKER_01Okay, then what else do we care about? Why wouldn't I want to just feel like I'm eating infinite ice cream and flying?
SPEAKER_00Nozick gave three main reasons. Let's test them. The first reason is that we want to actually do things, not just have the experience of doing them.
SPEAKER_01Wait, what's the difference? If my brain thinks I'm scoring a soccer goal, isn't that the same as scoring a soccer goal?
SPEAKER_00Let me ask you this. Think about when you built that giant Lego castle last week. It took you three days, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my thumbs hurt, but it was awesome.
SPEAKER_00What if I just handed you the finished castle and used a magic wand to zap your brain so you had the memory of building it? Would that be just as good?
SPEAKER_01No, that's cheating. The whole point was that I actually snapped the pieces together. If I didn't actually do it, I wouldn't be proud of it.
SPEAKER_00Boom! That's Nozick's first point. We want to actually do the things we are proud of. If you're in the machine, you aren't doing anything. You're just floating in a tank dreaming.
SPEAKER_01Wow, yeah. I want the real Lego bricks. I want my real thumbs to hurt a little bit. That makes it real.
SPEAKER_00Okay, ready for Nozick's second reason? He said, we don't just want to do things, we want to be a certain kind of person.
SPEAKER_01Be a certain kind of person? Like being kind or being brave.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Imagine someone plugs into the machine and programs a life where they are a huge hero who saves people from burning buildings every day. That sounds cool. But are they actually brave? They are sitting safe in a tank. There is no real fire. There is no real danger. Can you be a brave person if nothing is actually scary?
SPEAKER_01Oh. No. You're just pretending. You're not actually brave at all. You're just a person in a tank pushing a button.
SPEAKER_00Right. We want to actually be kind or smart or courageous. And you can only be those things if you live in a real world where things can be hard.
SPEAKER_01Wait. And what about my friends? If I'm in the machine, are my friends real?
SPEAKER_00That brings us to Nozick's third reason. He said plugging in limits us to a man-made reality. In the machine, everyone you talk to is just a computer programme designed to agree with you.
SPEAKER_01So my best friend wouldn't actually like me. It would just be a computer pretending to like me. That's so lonely. It is.
SPEAKER_00We want contact with actual reality. We want to know real people, and we want them to know the real us, even if it's messy sometimes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I've made up my mind. I am definitely not plugging into that machine. Real life is better, even if I get sad or scrape my knee sometimes.
SPEAKER_00You know, Finn, what's crazy is that Robert Nozick invented this idea in 1974. They didn't even have modern video games back then.
SPEAKER_01Really? But this sounds exactly like a virtual reality headset.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. We actually live with mini experience machines all around us today. Every time we scroll on a phone or play a video game, we are kind of stepping away from the real world into a perfectly designed fake one.
SPEAKER_01Whoa, that's true. In a video game, I can be a superhero, but I'm just sitting on the couch.
SPEAKER_00And games are super fun. There is nothing wrong with playing them. But Nozick's puzzle explains why eventually we always want to take the VR headset off. Why we eventually put the controller down and go outside.
SPEAKER_01Because going outside and playing a real game of tag with Ellis, Rory, and Aster is way better than a fake video game.
SPEAKER_00Yes, a real scraped knee from a real game of tag means you were actually there, living your actual life. Are there other movies or stories about this? Oh, tons! Have you ever heard of a movie called The Matrix? It's basically a giant story about this exact idea. Whether people would rather live in a happy dream or face a difficult reality. It's one of the most famous puzzles in philosophy.
SPEAKER_01That is so cool. I'm going to ask my friends tomorrow if they would plug in. Alright, Finn, it is time for the quiz. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_00I'm ready. Bring it on! First question. What is the name of the philosopher who came up with the experience machine? Next one. What year did he invent this thought experiment? Question three. What is the belief called that says only pleasure and avoiding pain matter? Here's number four. What happens to your real body when you plug into the machine? Last question. Did Nozick think most people would say yes or no to plugging in? Great job! Let's see how you did. The first answer is Robert Nozick. For question two, it was the year 1974. Number three, the answer is hedonism. Question 4. Your body just floats in a tank in a lab. And the final answer is he knew most people would say no to plugging in.
SPEAKER_01Man, the experience machine really makes you think. It makes me kind of glad that my real life isn't perfect.
SPEAKER_00I know what you mean. The messy stuff, the hard stuff. That's what proves we are really living and really growing.
SPEAKER_01Hey, if you are listening out there and you liked exploring the experience machine with us, could you leave us a five-star review? Just scroll down on your app and tap the stars.
SPEAKER_00Yes, please do. It helps other kids find the show. Oh, and don't forget to head over to our site, kidopoly.com. We have tons of fun learning games and activities waiting for you.
SPEAKER_01And if you want a shout out on the show, just like Ellis, Rory, and Aster, ask a grown-up to email us at hello at kidopoly.com.
SPEAKER_00We'd love to hear what you would do if someone offered you a ticket to the experience machine. Until then, keep wondering. See you next time on Philosophy is not boring. Bye, everyone!