Sacred Sitdowns
Sharing one’s personal story is sometimes hard, but it is holy. Sacred Sitdowns seeks to allow a safe space for faith-filled conversations with members and friends of Geist Christian Church. Hosts Kyle Brown and Danny Gulden hope that all those who hear will be enlightened and inspired. Listen with us. You’ll be glad you did.
Sacred Sitdowns
CJ McClanahan
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
CJ McClanahan is a speaker, author, and “Recovering Overachiever” who is obsessed with inspiring professionals to become charitable leaders within their communities. After advising entrepreneurs, CEOs, and other high-impact leaders for years, he recognized no matter what goal they achieved, it never seemed to be enough to deliver what they really craved—happiness, joy, and contentment. On today’s podcast, CJ will challenge our understanding of success as we strive to improve our quality of life.
To learn more about CJ, visit https://www.generosity-first.com.
Let us tell you a story.
SPEAKER_01A story that will transform, enlighten, challenge, and change how we see the world. My name is Kyle Brown. And I'm Danny Goulden. And we'd like to welcome you to Sacred Sit Downs, a conversational podcast that explores how the Spirit of God moves within this world through the power of story.
SPEAKER_02In today's episode, we will sit down with a member or friend of Geist Christian Church as they share their dynamic, faith-filled story.
SPEAKER_01We hope you will be enlightened and inspired by the word shared today. This is Sacred Sit Downs.
SPEAKER_02Well, episode two, and we have a wonderful guest. CJ, tell us a little bit about yourself for those that don't know.
SPEAKER_00I am six feet five inches, bald, Sagittarius. I like long walks on the beach. That's not what you wanted to know, is it?
SPEAKER_02No, but it's a great star.
SPEAKER_00I like it though. I like it. I am I do consulting and speaking for CEOs. I have a wonderful wife named Nicole, a son named Ian, uh, who's a freshman in college, a daughter named Crin, who is a sophomore. And I've lived in Indianapolis for 32 years. Born in Cheyenne, Wyoming. You did not know that. I did not know that. Lived in Denver until I was Denver, Colorado until I was 17 years old. I love the Nebraska Corn Huskers, so the last decade has been extremely painful for me. It has been painful. It's been a hard 10 years. No, and there is no there seems to be no light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.
SPEAKER_01They seem to be in the middle of the tunnel right now.
SPEAKER_00I don't even think they've made it to the middle. Maybe not. Maybe not. They might even be at the beginning of the tunnel, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02So how did you get so you said consult? Like how did you get into that?
SPEAKER_00Like that? Um yeah. Interesting story. So I I started off my career uh working at Arthur Anderson, the big accounting consulting firm. I then ran a small manufacturing company. I said really unique opportunity to do that because I was a good basketball coach for fifth graders. And anyway, stumbled into that, ran a sales team at a software company. 2003 we got pregnant with Ian. When I say we, my Nicole got pregnant with Ian. I was in no, I mean I participated early on, but not eventually was not pregnant with Ian.
SPEAKER_01We knew what you meant. Yeah, we had you. We had you.
SPEAKER_00Give the background there. So uh and Nicole, I said to Nicole, I want to start my own company. She said, What do you want to do? I don't know, let's see what I can afford. It turns out I could afford a consulting company of small businesses. So I got into the consulting business. Did not anticipate to do it, did not plan on doing it. One thing led to another, got a client, got two, got three. 19 years later, I've had probably 300 clients in a variety of different industries. Did not plan to do it. Uh, it just happened, honestly. I think some people have these really great plans they lay out for themselves. I do not. I did not. It just happened, you know, really blessed to be here now. But yeah, just kind of stumbled upon it.
SPEAKER_01So, what did you learn from coaching fifth grade basketball?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a great question. Um, yeah, that's a great question. I learned number one, um, do not under any circumstances tell the referees that they are doing a poor job at any time during the game. Ever. That's bad. Number two, I learned that if you do not play all the kids the amount same amount of time, the parents, someone will be tracking it up in the stands and you will hear about it after the game.
SPEAKER_01This is true.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Those are my two biggest lessons from fifth grade basketball.
SPEAKER_01Very good. One day I'll tell you the story. I I um was coaching eighth grade basketball and was ejected from a game. I got two technical fouls and was ejected. Yes. Not my finest moment.
SPEAKER_00I should have been ejected on many an occasion. I overreacted many times to refs. There is there are many a ref out there who I walked up to after the game, and I'm like, whatever you are paid to do this, I'm gonna double it. Because you should never have to take the abuse that I gave you during the game. It is a basketball game for the love of God. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I um I could not coach. Um you're too short. Well, thank you. Thank you. Let's go back to CJ and how tall he was. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Six four, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, six four-ish. Well, I pull five nine with my cowboy boots on, maybe. So uh one of the things that we have um wanted to hear about is how did you get to Geist Christian Church? Like, what's what's your background? Um, were you did you grow up a disciple of Christ, which is what Guy's Christian Church is, or like how did you like what does that story look like for you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I grew up Catholic. Okay. Uh I grew up in Denver, Colorado, grew up Catholic, went to a Catholic grade school. After college, went to a Catholic church, uh, met Nicole, and I said, Um, I'd like maybe we should go to a Catholic church. She burst out laughing and said, That will never happen. So we checked around and we ended up going to a Presbyterian church here in town.
SPEAKER_01What was Nicole's background?
SPEAKER_00Uh Methodist. Okay. Okay. Yes. She was one of the um non-Catholics who is not a a favor, not a big fan of the Catholicism, which right now I'm I mean, Catholicism, me and Catholicism got some issues. But at any rate, we went to a um Presbyterian church, switched to another Presbyterian church about eight or nine years ago. I kind of got the inkling that I just wanted to try something new. And I stumbled across guys' Christian church, honestly, stumbled across it, attended a few services, and I'm like, I like this. I had never heard of disciples of Christ in my life, uh, did not know a thing about it until I attended the new member class and they taught me all about disciples of Christ in the denomination. I'm like, oh, that sounds like me. So I didn't was not searching in any way, shape, or form, stumbled across it. And I've been here for eight years and having a blast.
SPEAKER_02So one of the things that I know that you are passionate about uh is generosity. Um so I'm I'm really curious what does generosity mean to you? And then uh I know you have a website that I was kind of combing through today uh with some some really great quotes and some of the ways that you implement or try to get your clients to implement generosity. And we'll talk a little bit about that. But what does generosity mean to you?
SPEAKER_00Generosity means to me that for a moment you take your focus off of yourself and you put your focus onto the needs of someone else. And you simply stop worrying about the things that are going right or wrong in your own life. Instead, you worry about the things that could be going wrong in someone else's life and you give of your resources to the other to someone else, whether that is money, whether that is time, whatever those resources are. And ultimately, having a generous heart is all about taking that focus, right? We're so focused and obsessed on what's going right or wrong in our own life and focusing on somebody else.
SPEAKER_02So where did where did that love I think that's a muscle. I think generosity is something we have to work on. It's not something we can wake up one day and be like, I'm gonna be generous today. Um we may have moments that we think of being generous, but to live a life of generosity, like where where did you begin to formulate that muscle? How did that how did that come to be for you? And how what influences were in your life that helped you kind of massage that and and strengthen that muscle? I'd love to say the Bible here.
SPEAKER_00I'd love to say that I was reading the Bible one day, and some verse in the Bible said, be generous.
SPEAKER_01That would be a good answer.
SPEAKER_02It would be. It would be every kid's answer. Right, right. The Bible. What would be yours?
SPEAKER_00One day I was reading the Bible, Kyle. No, that's not at all. Um Well, I think all of us at some level, I mean, I grew up in the church. At some level, we we kind of know we need to be generous. I mean, it's some level, right? We do. We know we need to be generous. To me, about 12-ish, 13-ish years ago, um, my clients were were having success financially. Their businesses were growing, that sort of thing. And I and I noticed, I I thought it was linear. The more money they made, the happier they would be. I I assumed it's a very linear curve. If I make you more money and we help make your business grow, then you will be happier. And what I found is they weren't. And I had this, oh my gosh, come to Jesus moment, quote unquote. I don't even think is that in the Bible, by the way, Danny? It's come to Jesus moment.
SPEAKER_01It actually is not.
SPEAKER_02That's not in the Bible, but it is not in the Bible. No, it's it's a come to me all that are, and then but not necessarily.
SPEAKER_01So I had that moment. Jesus doesn't say come to Jesus. Jesus does not come to Jesus. Correct.
SPEAKER_00So I had this moment, I'm like, what am I doing? And then I asked myself, what do people really want? What what do they want? And then ultimately what I found is what people want is joy. People want joy and happiness and contentment. That is what we are all striving for. And so I went around and I said, Well, what brings people joy and happiness and contentment? And I literally, I cannot, and I told myself I wouldn't say the word literally so much because my daughter Corinne is obsessed with that word at a level that drives me bananas. But I stumbled across a book called When Good Things Happen to Good People by a guy by the name of Dr. Stephen Post. And Dr. Post got me to believe that there is a quantifiable, measurable connection between the joy you feel in life and the amount of time and effort you spend giving and living generously. And it was it was quantitative, it was backed by science. And I'm like, oh my gosh, is this real? And so at that time I said, well, why don't I give it a shot? Why don't I start giving more? And so I didn't do it, I didn't start giving to be a good dude. I just so we're clear, audience, I want the audience to know I did not do it to be a good guy. I did it because I wanted to test the theory. Does giving make me happier? Does giving increase my quality of life? Does giving bring me more joy? Does it give me more peace? Does it give me more satisfaction? And that's how it happened. Oh, there's no doubt. Absolutely no doubt.
SPEAKER_01One of the things you've said on your, you know, a successful bottom line does very little to improve your life. And I I think to me, the difference between this is gonna lead to a question about the difference between um being charitable and being generous is I think as a person of faith, I think we believe we're hardwired for generosity. Like there's something in it that we're not hardwired for a successful bottom line, whereas we're hardwired about generosity. So maybe um with your clients, how do you talk about? I mean, not every client is of the Christian faith. I know you you were open and talking about you know your personal experience, but so is there any delineation, or how do you talk about what do you notice the difference between being charitable and being generous?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great point. Um I think people are charitable out of guilt and generous because it truly is their wired to feel good. And by the way, nonprofit organizations run their entire nonprofit giving mantra based upon we're gonna guilt people into give. Charitable people are truly charitable at their core and they want what is best for other people. My point, my my point with my clients is fundament I never say to my clients, hey, FYI, I read the Bible every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You want to into heaven, give more. Guaranteed entrance. I don't say that to them. What I say to them, and by the way, Danny, that's correct, right?
SPEAKER_01That is correct. Okay, good.
SPEAKER_00That's correct. That's from our biblical scholar. Okay, so what I do say to them fundamentally is this do you want more joy? Do you want more satisfaction? Do you want more peace in your life? Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm like, all right, well, we can make a gobs more money. And if the data told me making gobs more money was going to deliver that joy you want, I'd say, let's make more money. But the data doesn't tell me that. Um the data tells me that giving provides you with more joy. And if it didn't, I wouldn't do it. Honest to God. I see but but again, back to Danny's point. I I believe deep down we're wired to give. We're wired by a creator who said, if you live more like me, I will make you filled with more joy.
SPEAKER_01I have never met anyone, Kyle, I've never met anyone that said, I started giving, or I start giving more. I did this to serve another person, and I didn't like that, and I'm not going to do it again. You know, I'm just saying, it's like a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00Right. The only time someone has ever given and then regretted it afterwards is if you get super hammered at one of these black tie events and you end up buying like a six thousand dollar puppy or something like that because you're trying to impress your buddies. Other than that, we all love giving.
SPEAKER_02All so talking with your clients and giving is one thing. Um I have worked uh with both of your kids on mission trips. I've seen their heart, uh their attitude for gratitude, this kind of living a generous life. Um I assume it comes from not only spending time with uh me as I think that's most of it. No, I just it had to come from uh you all uh raising them to embrace this. And so what are some things outside of like I said, I know they've done a lot within the church. What are some things that you all have done as a family to highlight the importance of being generous?
SPEAKER_00We we talk about gratitude all the time. Um now the truth is I'm grateful 68% of the time, 32% of the time, I'm the biggest whiny baby you will ever run into. The 68% of the time I find joy. We talk about our children about gratitude relentlessly all the time. We talk about it every time we eat a meal. We pray, we're the kind of goofy people that pray at dinner at restaurants, not because we feel grateful to have it. And I know, I recognize that gratitude is the cornerstone upon which all the joy they will have the rest of their life is built. Because gratitude is a is a lens through which you see everything. And if you see everything in life as I deserve this or what don't I have, life is not going to be any fun. So we talk about it relentless. And then um, and then we also we we give back during the holidays. We give back in a big way, and we we involve our kids in giving back. Um, a story that happened here at Geist Christian Church. Um, someone needed uh someone was working somewhere in the church and they needed a little bit extra one year. And we came in and we bought a cup of coffee here, and the coffee was like $2, and I had a hundred dollar bill, and I gave them the hundred-dollar bill. And um uh the um the person's like, Oh, I I can't break the change. I'm like, ah, just keep it. And this person's like, What do you mean? What do you mean just keep it? And I'm like, oh, we my daughter and well, I made up some story. I said, My daughter and I, every year we just go and give a hundred dollar bill to someone randomly. And this person started crying. So then I walk out, and my and Krin is about, I don't know if I've ever told you guys this story. Krin's about 10. So I walk out and Krin and I are walking out, and then Krin turns back around and walks back, and she pulls out of her purse and gives this lady $10. You don't get goosebumps there, you don't get goosebumps. Right. And I didn't do anything. I didn't say, oh, by the way, FYI, if you get any extra cash, you got to slip it this way. She just did it. Um, I think maybe talking about it all the time permeates what it is that they do. And and I don't say it to brag to my children, but I say, hey guys, FYI, we wrote a check for X to this charity this year. Um we just talk about it a ton. We don't, I don't talk about my achievements in business or anything of that nature. We just talk about how we give uh for no other reason than we just think we want our kids to have a giving heart. Not because we think it's quicker entrance into heaven. We think it just is going to make you feel more joy in life.
SPEAKER_01Well, you learn that from others. I think of all the spiritual disciplines, and I think the church through the years has not talked about generosity enough as a spiritual discipline. Um I think it's it's more powerful when it's demonstrated like that, right? Corinne, and you're not you're not thinking I'm gonna give a hundred dollars so that Corinne will want to give ten. It's just a naturally generosity is naturally contagious like that. Um that's a beautiful story, beautiful illustration of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it is maybe one of my most favorite stories of all time. Absolutely one of my most favorite stories of all time. And then we we did um one year we did the uh Salvation Army has the giving tree thing, and and you know, you go and you get an angel off the giving tree. So one year I'm feeling this one was driven by my ego, by the way. God would know that this was my ego. Uh, I did 30 of them. I bought 30 trees. I got 30 of these kids. And I came home and Nicole's like, um, what are you doing? And I'm like, 30, how hard can it be? And she's like, Oh, you'll find out. So I shopped with my kids for all 30. And my kids were very tired of it at the end. But I mean, imagine, I mean, so that's probably like 12 hours of shopping, relentless shopping. And but it but again, all what do they see? They just see the fact that there are kids out there who don't have anything. Right. What is our biggest thing we don't have? We have everything we need. We've also made a conscious decision to live in a house that we bought 20 years ago. I mean, we we there I think there are subtle choices you make that tell the world what you value. So what it is w uh what do you value? That is what do I value? Well, I tell you what, it changes. This is CJ therapy for CJ now. It changes over time. Um, I value my family deeply, I value my dearest friends deeply, I value my health deeply, I value peace deeply. If you'd have asked me that a decade ago, I would have said clients in 401k and that sort of stuff, which I value those. I mean you gotta have those to live, but uh as I get older, I value peace more and more every single day. And I find um that peace of mind becomes more and more value valuable to me as I get older, and dear friends become more and more valuable to me as I get older, and thoughtful conversations with people who listen become more and more valuable with me as I get older.
SPEAKER_01So, how is the way as as you've gotten older and grown in your faith journey, how is the way you look at God, how has that changed over time?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, it feels like it changes all it changes every day with me. I think there was a time when I ex when I thought if I did certain things that God would think differently of me. I believe now that God is with me right this moment, He is with me at all times, and the more that I live the way He wants me to, the more I will recognize Him, and the more I recognize Him, the more peace I will have. I think that's maturing in my faith. That's one way I've matured. I'm air quoting maturity now. The other way I've matured, I think, over the years is I'm a spreadsheet guy. Um, I love give me give me a spreadsheet, let me connect it with eight other spreadsheets. And I thought that if I read enough books about Christianity and spirituality, my certainty about the whole thing would get so dialed in that I would like float. I could just rise above it all and tell people, well, if you would just do what I do, you wouldn't understand it all. And I found as I've gotten older that my certainty has become less, but my peace has become greater, recognizing that I don't need to have quite as much certainty.
SPEAKER_02I think there's a lot of power in that statement. I mean, I I think we live in a world where certainty, there's a sense of comfort in that. And so we seek it, and what we find is when we let go of that certainty a little bit, we actually find more comfort in the unknown. I mean, that's what faith is, is stepping out, that leap of faith. Um, but it's so daggone hard to do. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00It's so hard to do. It is mind-bogglingly hard to do.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're more comfortable, I think, being spreadsheet people, whether we know it or not. We want everything to add up. And as long as it adds up, it it's good. And sometimes faith just does not it it just does not add up, and we have to be comfortable with the uncertainty. Right. And most people like to they like to know for sure. Um my gosh, do we love it?
SPEAKER_00We love knowing. Love to know.
SPEAKER_02So uh w one of the things I would be really curious about is um what other things in a lie? I mean, uh practicing a generosity, this this uh this importance of of giving and then talking about it because you you talk to your clients, uh, you you model it as a family. What are some other spiritual practices that you do um that keep you uh dialed in, that keep you grounded? What are some things that you do uh in just your spiritual practice beyond this I this this giving that is really important to you?
SPEAKER_00I have a um I have uh three quotes, not quotes, I have three statements on a um on a uh a framed uh picture in my office. And the first one says, I am on the right path for me. And the second one says, I see Jesus everywhere. And the third one says, I forgive myself when I stray from the first two. Um I believe that strengthening your faith is a lot like getting good at golf, which I'm a disaster at golf, right? But I believe it is. I think I've read before it. It's a lot like getting it at golf, which is the game, intellectually speaking, is fairly simple. Mastering the game requires a constant practice. And I believe that if I practice seeing Jesus everywhere, I will um I will consciously excuse me, I will subconsciously reconnect in a faithful way to peace. I will consciously or subconsciously reconnect to more of what it is that God wants me to feel. Um but I'm wired to not see Jesus everywhere. I'm wired to judge. I'm wired to be right. I'm wired to do what I want for my own purposes. Um so that's a practice. Silence, I practice silence quite a bit, um, guys. And the reason I practice silence is because I think the only way that I can ever hear what God wants from me is when I'm in silence. Which for like all human beings is hard because we want stimulation in some way, shape, or form. Um I think those are two things. And then I ask, I have people in my life that I trust a ton to speak to me about my faith, to hold me accountable around my faith. Uh, and I think those are just kind of some important, very simple practices that help me grow. I think some days I do a really good job of it, other days. I think I'm I got I'm I am a work in process to say the least.
SPEAKER_01Well, you're you're talking about learning, retraining to see, to see in a new way. Um and the silence thing is learning to listen. Learning to listen. And um there's a lot of noise in the world. I mean, we're trained to make noise, which is ironic to say on a podcast, but we're trained to make noise. So to sit in silence, to learn to see another way, that's powerful. And it sounds like that's what you you help your clients do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, someday, yeah, if it's hard, right? You guys know it's hard. It is um everything ultimately I'm an unlicensed therapist for business people. Uh in what people want is magic some days. And I got no magic. I mean, I got no that's not true. Every now and then someone is doing something really dumb in business. I'm like, stop doing this, start doing this. And they're like, oh my god, you're a genius. Okay, tell others, but unlikely. Um, you know, but but the simple is the simple fact of the matter is it's the basics that get us where we need to be. We just have to have the patience and the discipline to put the very basic practices into place. And it starts with a humble acceptance that you are not the answer to everything. Oh my gosh, I just said that out loud, and I meant to say it just to myself in my own head. But it is boy, did I need to hear that, right? I'm not the answer to everything. I got some answers, but I'm not the answer to everything.
SPEAKER_01We probably needed to hear that too, so that was good.
SPEAKER_02So you highlighted um that revisioning, that that reframing uh to see Jesus. I I am uh in the everyday. I'm I'm curious if there are is there a moment or is there a place that allows you to recenter yourself uh to see uh in a new way? Do you do you have a place that you retreat to that that maybe silence means a little more in that place than than others or a time maybe?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, in the mornings. I I I do have quiet time every single morning. Um I drive in the car without music or without any noise. And typically I like to have the the uh windows down, especially when it's cold, whim hof. Um it makes me feel good. Other than that, Kyle, honestly, I try, I know that's my least favorite word. I do everything in my power to find him everywhere. Some days, really good at it. Other days, someone in front of me in line at Starbucks is taking too long, and I want to get out of my car and put a bat through their windshield. You know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's it's but I think what I appreciate about you, CJ, is your honesty and authenticity. Uh what you see is what you get. Uh there is there is no I and there may be some days you put a mask on. I'm sure there are times and situations, but I I I've always appreciated your authenticity and your willingness to share and to be open. And I think I appreciate you uh coming on and kind of sharing some of that because uh telling our faith story, I think it's hard. Um it's not always easy. Um it's it's a very vulnerable act because you never know what we may ask you in this moment. And uh uh, you know, through the seven years I've known you, uh it's just I I what I see is what I get. And and that's such a gift in in in this world. Um and and I think you highlighted it, you model it because you said how important it is to have friends in your life that are as authentic with you. They're gonna tell you, CJ, hey, you're this is this this is not where you need to be doing or or going. And it's so nice to have people like that in our lives to to be open and honest, but we have to be willing to listen to those uh to those messages as well. And it's a two-part. Sometimes the listening's a little harder. It is for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we like to ask all our guests as we wrap up. Um, I do want everyone to go Google Wim Hof. CJ introduced me to the works of Wim Hof, and it is worth your time. Uh, what is the the last book you read, the last television show you watched? So either one of those or both of those. And then you I know you're a very big reader, so maybe along the lines of what we've been talking about today, especially around generosity, are there things, um, books you might recommend, one or two for people to read?
SPEAKER_00Well, read when good things happen to good people. It is the cornerstone of my belief system from Dr. Post. When good things happen to good people. It's a wonderful, fantastic, awesome book based upon gobs and gobs of data that I really find um I really find valuable. I just finished um Walter Isaacson's book on Einstein. I still don't understand the theory of relativity. And that's the second book I've read on it. I'm not sure I'm smart enough to get it. Honestly, don't think I am smart enough to get it. It is a con that is not easy stuff, man.
SPEAKER_01You're talking to two pastors, theologians, so we definitely don't get it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that is tricky, tricky stuff. And then, of course, any book by Richard Rohr. Richard Rohr is my he's a he's like uh just a really brilliant author who's really opened up my eyes to to thinking about God and and the Trinity in a totally different way. Um TV shows, what am I? I watch terrible television shows, you guys. I watch terrible. I so I am I we are getting ready to oh no, here we go. Only Murders in the Building.
SPEAKER_02It's a fantastic show.
SPEAKER_00So good. That is I we can't well, I love that show. We're almost done with season two. That is fantastic television.
SPEAKER_02It's on Hulu for those listening. It's it's well worth it. It's a great show with Steve Martin and uh Martin Short and uh Selena Gomez. It's it's a great television. It's brilliant television. Well written. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01It makes you realize the brilliance of Steve Martin and Martin Short, and Selena Gomez is really good, but just you see the difference in having professional working actors.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they're so good, so unbelievably talented. We love that TV show. Nicole and I absolutely love that show. Yeah. We started watching um we got through the for like maybe through first three seasons of Yellowstone, but then the plot gets so crazy, and some of the characters are just so goofy. I just can't wrap my arms around it. Maybe I'll get back to it, but right now it's in the it's in the cuckoo burr world to us, so not watching it too much.
SPEAKER_01All right.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Well, CJ, I just thank you uh for being here. Uh, thank you for sharing your story and and being authentically you tonight. Uh I appreciate it and hope everyone else has uh enjoyed our time together.
SPEAKER_00Thank you guys. Really appreciate the opportunity. It has been a blessing for me.
SPEAKER_02This has been another episode of Sacred Sit Downs. We hope you will join us next time as we explore the power of story. We can be found on all major platforms, so be sure to subscribe. As always, thanks for listening. Until next time, this is Sacred Sit Downs.