Judy Apple-VanAlstine

Judy Apple-VanAlstine is an educator, author, and thinker. She is retired from a long career in teaching and administration and currently serves on the Board of Trustees at Christian Theological Seminary in Indianapolis. She has been a member of Geist Christian Church for 15 years and is one of the wonderful spiritual teachers at Geist. She also has served on the Board of Geist and as an Elder. Enjoy this conversation between Kyle, Danny, and Judy.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:04

Let us tell you a story.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

A story that will transform, enlighten, challenge, and change how we see the world.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

My name is Kyle Brown. And I'm Danny Goulden. And we'd like to welcome you to Sacred Sit Downs.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

A conversational podcast that explores how the Spirit of God moves within this world through the power of story.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

In today's episode, we will sit down with a member or friend of Geist Christian Church as they share their dynamic, faith-filled story.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

We hope you will be enlightened and inspired by the word shared today. This is Sacred Sit Downs. Hello, everyone. Hope you're doing well. Kyle, how are you doing? I'm doing great. Great, great to see you. Judy, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I'm doing well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Thank you for being here with us today. This is episode five of Sacred Sit Downs. And uh Judy Apple van Alstein is our guest. She is a member of Geist Christian Church. And whether she knows it or not, she was one of the people that was really pushing us to launch this podcast and help plant the seed. And we might not be sitting here right now without Judy's uh encouragement and support. And so thank you, Judy, and thank you for being here. Uh you'll get to know Judy during the podcast, a little bit about her. Like I said, she's a member of Geist Christian Church. Um, she has served in many, many capacities on the board and as an elder professionally. She is an educator. Uh she teaches uh Sunday school here at Geist and does just a number of things, has a heart for serving uh the community around us. And so, Judy, it's a blessing to have you here today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Thank you for having me in quite an intro.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

All right. Well, Kyle, anything else you want to add about Judy?

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Or I think we covered it. You you did. Actually, uh Judy was one of the first church members that I actually sat down and had a meal with uh when I came. My job was uh mission uh here at Geist. And so uh one of the things that Judy was uh overseeing and helping and very influential was Season of Giving, which is a campaign where we uh partner with agencies here in the uh Fishers uh community and the Indianapolis community, and and we partner and and walk alongside them in Thanksgiving, Christmas, and uh and and Easter. And so Judy and I sat down and she uh laid out what the church did not only in the amount of families, because we were at that time before COVID about 200 families. About 200, yes. And uh we just looked at the financial commitment that the church members were putting toward this ministry. Um and I mean it was pretty staggering the amount of love and care that uh people were doing on behalf of of their faith uh to help those that were in need, um, especially during some pretty stressful times.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Aaron Powell Especially for them. I mean, the some of our families were with us the entire 10 years. Um they struggled.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Aaron Powell And we have continued that ministry um up until uh now 2022. Um I want to think it's going on 30 plus years. Well um uh it started out with like four or five families and and uh every year it ebb and flows. Um but it's just a powerful way to serve uh those uh in our community on behalf of of our faith. And I I just I'm I'm honored to be a part of it. But that's when Judy and I sat down and Ruby Tuesdays there on 96. We did indeed.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

So we did indeed.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Do you all do the salad bar?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

That's why we went there. Yeah, they have a great salad bar.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

They used to, yeah. It was great. I guess it's going on now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Like other things in COVID. Judy was on my search committee, and despite her uh objections, I received the job, and so I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

I was also on Kyle's.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

So we have two of the best. Well, I'll tell you one.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

I don't Judy, your taste in ministers. I don't know. It might be a little uh we might have to revisit it. So listen, let's let's move on from that. Um tell us uh tell us a little bit, just give us sort of a snapshot of your background, especially as it comes to faith.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Um I was not raised in the church, as I know many were not. Um my family moved around a lot, so we never really settled in any one um house, we never settled in any one state, and certainly didn't settle in any one church. And so from the time I started kindergarten till the time I graduated to high school, I went to 11 different schools. So we um we moved around a lot, and we were nomadic and uh Christians and we were tepid Christians. I contacted, I have a sister and a brother, and as we all know, sometimes our memories are faulty. So I contacted uh my sister in particular because she and I are 22 months apart, and I said, Tell me what you remember about growing up in faith in our in our house. And her response was, Judy, we live together. So uh we talked about there was not a Bible in our house. Um we went to church on Easter, perhaps, and uh so my faith growing my faith uh journey really did not start until I was 18. And I walked into Old Bethel Methodist Church on the east side of Indianapolis by myself and walked up to the altar, and that was when I accepted Christ as my Savior. So I was by myself when I did that. My family didn't even know I was going to do that.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Now do you rem I mean, wow. Um do you remember what may have uh like that that push to walk in that church that day? Were you invited or just I was not invited.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Um it was December 17th, and I'm going to show my age here. December 17th of 1961. I was 18 years old, so you can do the math on that. And I remember standing in church, it was a Sunday before Christmas, and we were standing and singing, and it there was an altar call, and I walked by myself to the altar I wasn't by myself, but I didn't have family there. Uh I walked with others to the altar and res responded to that altar call.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Wow. That's that's amazing. It is. So did you did you go back the next Sunday? What was it?

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Okay, so you I did.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

It wasn't just a uh uh in the moment, it was you really were convicted. It was there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

It was there. There wasn't any doubt about it, and it is one of the probably half a dozen times where I have felt absolutely certain of anything, and there was no doubt. And um I came home and this was before my senior year in high school before I went to college, and um my parents said, Where did you go? Because we only had one car and I had borrowed the car, and I said I just went to church, and it was kind of, oh, okay, well, dinner's ready, our lunch is ready, so it wasn't a big deal. There were really weren't any questions about it. Um but it was there was no no question, absolutely no doubt.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Did uh rhythm change for you after that?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Actually, uh as far as a rhythm, I don't know that a rhythm changed, a contentment changed. Um there was a sense of peace at that point because I had moved around so much. I almost got married at the age of 16, so we didn't have to move, so I didn't have to move again, probably wouldn't have worked out because a senior in college he learned that he was gay, so that marriage probably wouldn't have worked really very well. So I think um I didn't recognize it at the time, but I think probably God stepped in and said, Hey, this is probably not the best path for you. And so there was a sense of contentment, there was a sense of peace, there was a sense of this is where I belong.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

You that kind of reframes the term church home for me. Like we use that, and sometimes I'm aware it's a it's a hard term for some people because maybe their home life wasn't great, and so to say, well, this is your home. Really for you, it sounds like it was something that rooted you needed that root, you needed somewhere to put down roots, and faith in that church allowed you to do that, it allowed you to be centered.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

That's very true. And my pe my family, I mean, my parents are were good parents. They were just really good parents. I mean, they took good care of us. Just going to church wasn't part of it. So, yes, Danny, and you're absolutely right. When I went to Old Bathall and eventually was married there, um that became my center. That became where I felt at home. That was in December of my senior year in high school. I continued there until I went to college, and then after college came back, um, married my husband there along with his minister from Good Shepherd United Methodist Church, and we raised our kids in that church.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

So you t you talked about moving nomadic um for a large part of your early life. Um looking back on that experience um through the lens of of the experience you had at at Bethel, um are there things that grounded you in in that season of of movement and that nomadic that that maybe you didn't see in the moment, but looking back, um they uh to use the term Danny rooted you in some way, shape, or form?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

I I don't know what it would be, Kyle, other than when you move that frequently you have a hard time making friendships. So in answer to your question, the only thing that I can tell you that rooted me anywhere, quite frankly, were the friendships that I developed. They were short term because we weren't long enough to we weren't anywhere long enough to do long-term friendships. But the friendships and the friendships that I had in the fifth grade, I went to three different schools in three different states. And when I got to New Orleans um in the fifth grade, when you walk into a new situation that many times, you have multiple opportunities to be the new kid on the block. So oftentimes I found in the fifth grade and forward, those who accept you are the ones who are kind of on the fringe. And so I begin to be comfortable on the fringe. That's where I became comfortable. So when I moved to New Orleans, uh those were the good folks who accepted me. They were folks who, in one case, the young man didn't have shoes. Um, but he recognized my first week of school when no one had spoken to me. And I'm an introvert by nature, as you know. And so um he on after I'd had a really negative experience with one of my teachers there, the following day he said, Let's go to trapanies and have lunch. A bunch of us are going to trapanies. Well, trapanys was just a little grocery down at the end of the street. And I said, No, I brought my lunch, and he said, So you're gonna sit in the cafeteria again by yourself. And I said, Okay, I'll go to Trapanny's. And uh fourth day there, and I found out the Trapanes, the lady there served lunch to kids who could not afford it. And so she opened her s little grocery store to people to kids who could not. So I had my, you know, shiny red lunchbox or whatever color it was, and an apple rolled out, and a young man by the name of Didi de Tillier, most of my friends were Italian in New Orleans and Catholic. And uh so he went and picked up the apple and I said, You can have it. And he said, and he took it to Mrs. Trapani and he said, Well, you cut this in enough pieces for everybody here. So those kinds of experiences, I can't say that I can't necessarily say, even though they were very good people and I loved them to pieces, that my family rooted me. I can't say that. I can say more that experiences rooted me and caused uh whatever faith I was gaining at that time, although I don't know that I would have called it that, um, to grow, to become rooted, to become centered.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Do you think that experience growing up, you said on the fringe, which I like? Because I think you your faith, at least to me, seem you you definitely have a special concern for those on the fringe. Um we talk about Jesus' care and concern for those on the margins or the fringe. I mean, you kind of embody that in your faith. Um did that did those experiences inform that? I mean, can you kind of trace back and say, I kind of know what it's like to be on the on the fringe, however you might you know say that? And um how has that kind of shaped you today?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

I think it shaped me totally. Um when I came to high school here, once again, it was the rougher crowd that welcomed me. It was not the insiders.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

It was not the disciples.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

It was not the disciples. Well, it depends on what you're adjusting. Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Um but they welcomed me in, and uh, you know, I've been an insider and I've been an outsider, and it's a lot more fun to be an insider. But what I have found, and Danny, this goes back to your question, is that outsiders are more likely to welcome outsiders than insiders are likely to welcome outsiders. So I have found that in multiple places where I have been, and um, you know, when you end up in a car with a guy with a flask and you're 17 years old, you're not quite sure what to do with that, except they were the first and only people to invite me to be a part of what they were doing. So, yes, I the people on the fringes in whatever size, shape, form, or color have a a place in my heart.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

So we fast forward a little bit. How did you find your way to Geist Christian Church?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

That was an interesting endeavor. Um so I had I left the church for a while. And um after our kids were grown, my husband and I divorced, and um we had left the church actually long before that, and that ended up in a divorce. And so after we divorced, once again I was feeling unrooted. I don't know that that's a word, but feeling unrooted. And so I started going to um St. Luke's United Methodist, and I went to the garden there, which was then affiliated with St. Luke's and absolutely loved Linda McCoy. I mean, to this day, I think the world of her. And I like the whole informality of it. I like the fact that you could walk into beef and boards or walk into what was then Oak Hill Mansion and just be at peace. There wasn't the formality of it. So then I remarried in St. Luke's United, or yes, St. Luke's United Methodist Church. Two years and four months later, my husband passed away. And it was an incredible church. And but still a year later, folks were asking me how I was. So it was hard to move on. So then I and I know I know pastors probably don't like to hear this, but I began to church shop and uh went to a number of different churches, and three of the churches, because I had been divorced, would not accept me as a member. So that was an interesting experience. So came to Geist Christian and um talked with Ryan actually, and I told a story, and he said, you know, if we didn't allow people who were divorced in our church, we wouldn't have a half of our congregation. So I knew at that point that that was a place where I guess I shouldn't say I knew at that point that that was a place where anyone could was welcome. I knew I was welcome there. And Courtney Richards, this story will go many places, but Courtney Richards welcomed me, got me immediately involved, which I think is key in any church, is to become immediately involved. So I grew to love Guys Christian Church. It is my church home, it is my center.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

So uh Courtney that is a spiritual gift of Courtney. Courtney is really good. Um I don't know how many stories I've heard of of Geist members saying that um I was sitting next to her at a meal and the next thing I know I'm I'm volunteering for for this or participating or leading worship. Um a spiritual gift that um that she she is is so good at. Uh what are some we've talked about season of giving, what are other ways that you have used your gifts uh in the life of the church?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Oh my. Um I'm not sure what gifts I have, Kyle. So that's kind of a uh an interesting question. I will tell you where my interest have lied, have been. Is that all right? That's fair. Um helping helping people. It just is. Um and that's where my volunteer work lies. That's where if I really roll up my sleeves and get down and dirty, that's where my heart lies. Uh I want to know people. I want to know their stories. Um, I want to know their relationships. And I had my my late husband said, You're really nosy. And he's right, because I really want to know the story. I can give you a bag of food, I can give you a backpack, I can give you, I can give you, I can give you, I can give you. But I want to know who you are. I want to know who you are. I want to know what your dreams are, I want to know what your hopes are, I want to know what your aspirations are, I want to know what your challenges are, I want to know you.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

And I think that's an important part of mission. I think um uh the easier part of mission is to serve a meal and um, you know, uh when we work with youth or or any any person um to get them to experience to what I say is move behind the counter. Um that that more is done sitting and breaking bread with someone than serving them the meal in which you were eating at that table. Um because uh people's stories, I mean that's part of the the point of this podcast, is people's stories um uh uh bring something about within us, um, but also uh we often are left changed when we hear someone else's story. When you when you put a face to a story, when that story doesn't match up to the cover of what you thought it to be, um we're left with reorienting ourselves and an understanding of of how we engage with one another. And so um I think there's a a lot of power in that stepping behind, uh stepping in front of the counter to to be with people, to know their story.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

I agree with that. And may I tell you a story about an eighth grader?

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

I was an eighth grader. Um one year I was assigned when I wanted to finish my doctorate, I was reassigned to a classroom. I'd been in a leadership position and had been out of the classroom. So I was assigned to kids who had not passed what was then I step. So I had eighth graders, and eighth graders are hormones on wheels from the word go. And so one young man just wasn't doing anything, wasn't doing anything, wasn't doing anything. So I finally said, Let's talk. And so he I said, Come in after school, I'll take you home. I got permission from his grandmother, and I said, What's going on? And he said he was becoming a gang member. He his initiation was to become a gang member. And with every group that we belong to, there's an initiation of some kind, whatever it is. There's a secret code, there's a pinky ring, there's well in this case, his initiation was that he had to kill someone. And he was really worried about that, and needless to say, and the outcome of all of that was if he didn't, then he would be killed. So this is an eighth grader dealing with that. So I said, Does your grandmother know? No. I said, is this something you want to do? No. And so we spent about three hours talking about how he could first of all, how he could not do that. But then we talked more importantly about why he wanted to be a member of this guy gang. And it was something like that I kind of shared, it was they were the people who invited him.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

So a lost an outsider trying to find a tribe, a a place that uh he was felt, welcomed and seen.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

He wanted to be an insider, and this was the only place he was an insider. He was 14 years old in the eighth grade, which is a couple of years older than you need to be to be in the eighth grade, or or most eighth graders are. So um but yes, he was looking for a place to belong, and this was the place to belong, and that was the price of admission.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

You use the term uh church shop, which I think to me there's a difference between church shopping and community shopping. Um you know, like I I I'm a big believer that you you join a church for the other people around you, right? I mean, you join the church for the ethos of that church, and um that story about the eighth grader points to our need for community.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

There were always community shopping in one way or another, where we even realize it or not. Um and I'm just impressed, I mean, you you found community. I mean, that's what you you were looking for when you came to church, and I think that's that's a powerful um that's a powerful testimony to that. How so Judy, in terms of teaching, what what um terms of faith, how how were you able to sort of use that in in your teaching and your education career? How did what role did that play um and the reason I'm thinking about community, but what other roles did that play in your um in your career?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Um I think that that's a great question, Danny, actually. Um I think it played a role in that. I looked for those who are marginalized, if that makes any sense at all.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Absolutely. Um when I was That's what Jesus did too, so you're in good company, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Well, he did it three thousand times better than I could ever begin to do it. But um I I don't know. There's there's something about someone who's hurting and doesn't belong. And it that's easy to pick up on if you look for it. And I've always kind of looked at the visibly invisible, if that makes any sense at all. So um when I was at the University of Indianapolis, all of our students were um 25 and older, and they all had life experiences, many, many, many life experiences. And they had been told almost without exception, and I was there for over 800 kids, too, uh kids, their students, walk over, walk across the stage with their degrees. And almost without exception, they had been told they weren't good enough. They had been told they weren't good enough in school, they weren't good enough in their career, they weren't good enough, they weren't good enough, they weren't good enough. And many of them had been in trouble, had been in trouble with all kinds of p folks and organizations and institutions. So I don't know, Danny, I don't know that my faith played a role in that. It's just that you know, when I I learned that one of my students had been thrown down the stairs by a stepfather, that broke my heart. So I all I don't I don't I won't say always. I try to look for the story behind the behavior. So I try to look at you know, I I think about you mentioned Jesus and and the folks with whom he associated. He wasn't with the cream of the crop or what would be considered the cream of the crop. And boy, that cream of the crop looks different in many ways. And the the folks on the fringes and on the margins are the cream of the crop. They truly are. So if that is faith in action, I don't know. I can't speak to that. I just know that that's where my heart goes, and that quite frankly, is where my head goes.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

I mean I think that's a perfect example of faith, um, of embodying God's hands and feet, and and you know, that the phrase that we use so often here at the church is we are God's hands and feet. And uh so often we want to be that with the folks that look and sound and and have similar stories to us, but but that's if if we look at the gospel and the stories, it's uh Jesus met people where they were. Um He didn't expect them to come to him um all the time. And so uh as you continue to tell your story, it's one of those of of meeting people and being in tune with where people are instead of assuming um you come with um a question of of why this is the way it is or why are you acting like you are? It's not just it it's not just face value. You want to know the reason behind it, and that's the hard work. That's that's that's the hard work of faith that that I think we all need to to attempt uh on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

What so Judy, what unanswered questions do you have about faith? Or what is a question? What is a question that is unanswered for you? Is that for another podcast?

SPEAKER_00 26:57

There are not enough hours in the day. Um a number of questions. Um and this is a question that I'm sure a lot of all of us have, and that is and I and this is probably an unfair question, and I know that right up front, but why does God allow the civil unrest that's occurring now? Why are all of the natural disasters occurring now? Why do we have the political climate that we have? Why do we have, at least in my viewpoint, the tearing of the fabric of society right now? Um and I guess the ultimate question is what's it look like in heaven?

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Those are all great questions. Those are good questions. Danny, you have answers?

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I was gonna ask you, Kyle.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

I was quicker to the question. Yeah, you were. Man.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Should have been closer to the mic. I'm sitting with two pastors. Surely I could get those answers here.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Well, those are the questions though, I think a lot of people are I mean, I think your questions are not unique in the sense that a lot of people are wrestling with those, wondering where where is where is God in all this, right? Where is God? And um that's tough to answer. I mean, I think well, no, this isn't for me to answer. So but I mean, what I think is, in short, is I think it's those of us who um know God, especially those of us who know God through the person of Jesus Christ, we've kind of we've missed the mark on on some of Jesus' teachings, and that's why you see some of the the things we have. I mean, the loving your neighbor and loving your enemies and kind of the hard work Jesus calls us to, we don't we don't really want to do it. We've become insiders. Well we have, yeah. We've we've looked for Jesus in the wrong place. Yeah. We've become too comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Go ahead. No, please.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

No, you, you, though. No, I was done.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Um one of the things that it that I've written a little bit about is um Judy is also a published author.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

I should have mentioned that in the intro.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Um Thank you. Um One of the things that I've written about is and I think this plays into my faith, Danny, in response to your question a minute ago. One of the things I've written about is the us, them, we, they, you, me phenomenon. And I believe there's an in-between in each of those. There's an arc. And I think we within the church, we as people play a role in that piece. And there are many ways we can do that, but I'll focus on how I feel we as people can do it. I call it a dance because it is a dance. We're moving forward, we're moving backward, we're doing better, we're doing less well, that kind of thing in our Christian faith. And the whole idea of breathing and dancing is what I've really come to believe are three different things. And one is compassion, one is connection, and and one is commitment. And compassion is the call to care, and that's simply to realize that it's there. I mean, we can, I will speak for myself, I can become so insulated that I don't see a gentleman on the street experiencing homelessness. I don't see a child suffering. Um, so to even recognize that those needs are there, and then secondly, to make that connection, we've kind of talked about that, and that is what is that story? How did you get to be to this place? And then the last one for me is the commitment, and that is the call to action. Okay, we've recognized this, and I truly believe in my heart that the church is the reconciliation place for that, where we have the ability and our faith to be able to be that bridge, to be able to be that dance partner, to be able to be that breath in between the us and them and we're and they's. So that's that's where my faith lies.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Well, and if the if the church cannot take a lead on modeling new ways of being in community together, it's hard to expect other places in society to be able to do that. I mean, I feel like that's a place the church should lead.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

And to create a space for people to have conversation without the fear of being judged, and a space where they can learn as an educator. I mean, uh the whole point is for us, I hope I haven't stopped learning and growing. And the church is one of those places that I mean, I hope that we will continue to to grow and to learn from one another. And uh, you know, community isn't always about patting ourselves on the back, hey, that's a great job. It's it's challenging people we care deeply for to see things differently and through a different lens so that we can continue to grow, the whole people accountable. And and the church should hold people accountable and uh as well as loving them. You can do both. It's not a it's not an us them. There is a dance between those two things that can take place uh in our faith journey.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

And to engage in civil discourse one with another.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Absolutely. Yeah. So um one of the things that we like uh to ask is uh any book or television show or movie, and you're pulling out a folder. You you wrote them down.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Well, only because uh well I'm not a commercial TV watcher.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

So I can't help you out there. If it has a commercial with it, I don't watch it. So this is what I'm reading now, and for better or for worse, just stay awake while I go through this. Um Behave by Sapolsky, Think Again by Adam Grant. That's what you learn after you think you know it all. Um The Church of Us versus Them, Locked In, which is about the incarceration system. The one I'm reading now is Dark Clouds, um Deep Mercy, Thinking Fast and Slow, and Keep Sharp, and Podcast. If they have commercials, I don't listen to them.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

That's honest. Um so I I follow Brene Brown. I love her, I love her sassiness, I love her down-to-earthness, I love her her reality. Um the Good Life Project I follow, which I really enjoy. And um Glenning Doyle Mellon, I follow her. And if there's a political podcast to be had on either side, I listen to that.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Well, um that list will be in the description. So all those books and examples so that if people want to take that list and um I've read a few of those. So you don't like light reading. Those are right, right. Or commercials.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

No, I don't like commercials.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

So what was what was the last commercial you've seen? How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

I I I can tell you that I am an avid cults fan and I watched the game yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Did you watch the commercials?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

I did not. Wow. I did not. I did not.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

What did you think of Jeff Saturday?

SPEAKER_00 34:32

I love him.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

All right. Uh I am I am intrigued to see how this plays out.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

I am too. Um and I appreciated his interview where he said, if I'm the best guy, fine, and if I'm not, thanks for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

I will say that I I I saw his press or I saw some of his interview and I thought, I'd consider running to a wall for this guy. I mean, I can see you can't help but like him and be inspired and want to play for him.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

So I I wish them well. I mean, I I it was a good game yesterday. It was um it's always a good day in Indianapolis or Indiana when the Colts win. Right. People are in a better mood. So you um you kind of listed listed a few questions, but if you could ask God one question, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 35:24

What can we expect in the second coming?

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Ooh. That'd be a good sermon series. Because you couldn't do it in just one.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

No, no. No. Well, you could, but it'd be two hours long, and I don't think I think everyone would stop listening, but yeah, that is a good question.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Because has he been here and we've not recognized him?

SPEAKER_03 35:50

My guess is uh we weren't looking on the fringe. We were definitely not looking in the right place, yeah. Um probably not in a a manger or any other place of maybe not even in a glow of light.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Maybe in the shadow of darkness.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

You can see why Judy's a published author.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

And and if you want to hear more thoughts uh from Judy, you guys uh at Promise Road, our Promise Road campus, have a Sunday Bible study in which you help lead.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

I'm sure you have other voices there, but Judy organizes and helps lead and teach a Sunday morning Bible study at 9 a.m. in the hospitality suite. They are uh very steadily outgrowing the hospitality suite, which means we're gonna have to find a new uh place for them very soon. But um anyone is welcome to join. And it is I have uh heard not a complaint and only good things. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

And um which, you know, it's a really good group of people, an incredible group of people.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Well, they have a good leader, and a good leader makes all the difference in the world. So Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Well, Judy, I want to say thank you for hiring Danny and I uh to this.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yes, we appreciate it. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

I I wasn't tracking the both of us, you were on both of our search committees, but um it was a pleasure in both.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

So, church, if you like neither Kyle nor I, uh blame Judy. It's Judy's fault. But if you like us, just give her the credit.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

I mean that's well, anyway, thank you so much for being with us this evening. Um we hope you um have enjoyed our time together. It's it's uh I just love how your faith is lived. Yes, um, it's not talked, it's lived. So thank you for your um witness uh and your ministry and your call to serve the least, the last, and the lost. Thank you. And thank you for the opportunity. Absolutely. This has been another episode of Sacred Sit Downs. We hope you will join us next time as we explore the power of story. We can be found on all major platforms, so be sure to subscribe. As always, thanks for listening. Until next time, this is Sacred Sit Downs.