Dick Forsythe

Dick and his spouse, Marcia, moved to the Indianapolis area from Wisconsin and joined Geist Christian Church in 2009. Dick is passionate about continuing to learn and grow in faith, expanding both mind and heart. He is active in The Bridge men's ministry, the Guatemala mission trip, and as an Elder. He is retired from a career in finance and is an avid cyclist.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:02

Let us tell you a story.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

A story that will transform, enlighten, challenge, and change how we see the world. My name is Kyle Brown. And I'm Danny Goulden. And we'd like to welcome you to Sacred Sit Downs. A conversational podcast that explores how the Spirit of God moves within this world through the power of story.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

In today's episode, we will sit down with a member or friend of Geist Christian Church as they share their dynamic, faith-filled story.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

We hope you will be enlightened and inspired by the word shared today. This is Sacred Sit Downs. All right. Well, hello, everyone. Good to be with you. Kyle, good to see you. How are you doing this afternoon? You know, Danny, I'm doing well. It's good to be here. We got a great guest for us today. We have a wonderful guest. So if you've been listening, you know the last two episodes we were on location uh in Nashville, Tennessee. We uh uh had our friends Kelly Dick and Chris Fur on. Today we have another friend. He is a uh member of Guy Christian Church. In fact, he is an elder here at Guy Christian Church, so we will be on our best behavior today. Uh Dick Forsythe is with us. Dick, hello. Hello, how are you all doing? We we're doing great. We're glad to have you today, Dick. This is gonna be a lot of fun. I'm excited. Dick is a uh a retired professor from Butler. He is an avid cyclist. Can I call you an avid cyclist? Is that fair? I'm coming back. All right, coming back. Yeah, Dick just had back surgery, and as part of our heal his healing, he said he needed to be with us here on Sacred Sit Downs today. So um, Dick, you've been in our prayers for uh healing and uh continued healing, but good to see you up and around. And um it's just great to have you today. We want to uh start. Uh tell us a little bit about um we always ask about faith journey, how you found particular places, and sometimes those questions are separate, sometimes they're similar. Uh so just start tell us a little bit about how you uh found Geist Christian Church.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Well, first I'll make a little correction. Uh although I was a professor, I didn't exactly retire from there. I I was a professor and then went back to industry, and that's where I retired in the finance world.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

That's good. I'm sorry. That's okay. We're we're a little loose with the facts here sometimes on sacred sit-downs, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Okay. Uh I found Marsh and I moved down here around 2012, I think it was, somewhere in that neighborhood, because we wanted to be closer to family. And um we moved we were living in Wisconsin, and both of our mothers were getting up in here. So we said, let's move down. And I was recruited uh from IBM to um work on. I said, fine, I'll work if you move me to Indiana. So we came down here, and Marcia has family here, so we started looking at churches, and we went to um uh Omega Church, is why you like to call them the church of what's happening now. There's a lot of action, a exit stage left, exit stage right, and that really wasn't what kind of appealed to us. So we tried another church, but and we came to Geist, and uh we liked the friendliness. It was um and and it's interesting from our time here how we've grown how the love of the church has grown from the original onset. You know, we um uh as with anything learning about it, uh there's uh peaks and there's valleys. But uh as we got to know more people, uh guys like Kyle came in and and I got involved with him through some mission work. And then um Danny came in. I got to know uh Ryan so much better, and I'm it's reinforced that sometimes uh in spite of yourself you make some good decisions, and this is one of them.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

I like that honesty, just because you know, so often we think church is based off uh the leadership, and and there is a part of that to church, but really it's the people you meet, uh Sundays that community, community that that you find with one another. And and I think you're right, there's peaks and valleys with any faith, you know, faith community that you're a part of, and and weathering those storms and and and celebrating them when they're really good and and when things are are um a little more difficult to transition, if you will.

unknown 4:22

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So talk about your faith journey before that. What what's kind of your background? What um'd you grow up? How have you been as an adult? All those all those good good questions.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Uh as long as uh the gong doesn't go off, uh I'll try and tell the truth as best I could and recall it. At my age recollection is not that long.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

We practice freedom of belief here, so we'll we'll believe whatever you tell us.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Um uh actually uh it's a long uh it's always been involved around the church. Uh I have the uh uh fortunate or unfortunate being a PK, a preacher's kid, and it was a uh fundamentalist uh uh r uh group, um and that's a whole nother story that I probably has my faith journey has um evolved. And uh I know probably my biggest faith hero was not my father, who I have uh issues with his theology, because uh I saw even from his letters from Okinawa, he was more about proving wrong, people wrong in their doctrine than following what I perceive. Uh but my faith hero was my grandfather. Um I can't recall who actually said it, but uh sometimes you show your cred you you proclaim your Christianity and sometimes you use words. And my grandfather proclaimed his Christianity. Uh he he wasn't uh quoting Bible chapter and verse, but he just lived a life that you know I as I grew grew older and had grandchildren, I said, I hope I can be as good half as good as he was as a grandparent. But uh I've always been attached, um even in college at uh undergraduate at Butler, uh uh I um conducted services at the chapel. I I guess I always felt as part of it. Um and every place we went, um that was our first thing to do is find a church home. Um and our last one, when we moved down from here from Wisconsin, uh it was uh altogether different. It's a small community uh with an interesting accent coming from south of there. Uh our daughter picked it up more quickly than I did. Uh they probably thought I was from some area like Danny, although uh I I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

I try to hide my accent though. Sometimes it comes out.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Uh you're not very good at hiding. Thank you. Yes. Mine comes out most when I talk to my parents. Like Sarah will listen in, and it's just the longer I talk to them, the more that Eastern Kentucky twang comes out. And and that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

It reminds me of the thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Mine's around food, yeah. When I start talking about food, like deviled eggs.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Oh, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

That's sweet, sweet tea.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Sweet, sweet tea. Sweet tea. And they always ask you what's sweet tea, and I said, no, thank you. I'm sweet enough. Um, but uh so that faith journey has gone, and I think it is always evolving, whether that's good or bad. Um I was thinking today, I thought, boy, if I were to go back and get my doctorate, like some people, I think it would be in comparative religions. Because uh my faith is strengthened, challenged, um, more so by uh I don't know, more so, but it's much by the Bible, but reading the Bible through different eyes. Um you know, reading the eye, there's a book called the um uh basically indigenous way of life. It was um I I see a lot in the Native American culture. I thought, oh, okay. And you see that in uh Hindu culture, and there was a book that I know you guys are familiar with, which is uh uh uh uh Brown Taylor. Uh Barbara Brown Taylor. I couldn't remember. I always get uh Taylor before Brown. But anyway, uh she wrote um Holy Envy, as you know, and I remember a Buddhist priest who was challenging a young man who was afraid he was going to try and convert him. He says, I don't care what you are, whatever you are in your faith, whichever faith you ascribe to, be the best that you can be in that faith. And so the more you read, the more you study, the more your questions, at least for me, that come out. And uh the more I see similarities. Um and uh and I I think comparing you know the gospels to the uh uh Paul's letters and assumed letters and such, um they're two different two different Bibles almost.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

So Dick, as as you talk about your faith journey, one of the things that is part of your journey is you you served in the Navy. It's a good looking uniform.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Yeah, a good looking uniform. Uh I didn't look like a bus driver that I always tease my Air Force friends. Uh but uh uh no, I went in the Navy and I w, you know, being a landlocked person, you always think the grass is greener on the other side, or there's more than just the pond that's a little muddy. Uh so I joined the Navy and then I wanted to do something different, so I went into submarine service, and um uh that was a challenge. Uh that was exciting. I thought, well, it's not something you get to do every day. At submarine school and our chapel there, we had a list at the front of all the boats that went down. We call them they're on the eternal patrol. So that's always very close. You you realize the fragile life that you live. And the other one of the jobs I had in the Navy when I got shore duty was uh something that you folks have had to do. And um it it was profound to me in a way as as a KCO officer during NAM where you had to you were the person that knocked on the door when something happened to their loved one. And uh that I don't know about you guys, that was one of the out-of-the-body experiences that you have. You you don't hear yourself talking, but it it's one of the things that you kinda it reinforces your faith that even though you you're in a horrible situation, it's not as horrible as those on the other side, but also that God is there with both of us uh trying to trying to help help me show her up, not only them but myself.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Where did you find the strength to do that? Because you're right, it's a bit of whenever you have to deliver bad news or you're in the midst of uh people who are grieving, um that's incredibly difficult. Uh where did you find the strength to do that?

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I think the same place you guys find it. Uh uh it's kind of like a lot of things. Uh you have to do it. There's no one turning back. You know, you were called upon to do it. And um it I shirking your duty sounds too mild, but it it is your duty. And it's your duty to be there for people. And I know people challenge you. Well, why did you do that? Well, you did that because you were called to do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

I think that's so important. Kyle, you may have had this experience. I know I've sat with uh families who have just received bad news or just lost a loved one, and I'll look around the room and think, uh, God, why am I the one here? But that same, well, you've called me to be here, and I'm gonna try to do something that no one else in the room uh is supposed to be doing at this moment, and that's provide comfort, provide support. And um, but it's it's humbling. That's I think one of the most humbling things that we do. And I and I don't think you ever feel adequate in doing it, but um I think also your presence matters more than we uh someone once told me they don't, you know, people don't remember exactly what you told them, but they remember that you were there.

unknown 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

And and I think from your perspective, uh that's true. When we were not accepted. Uh because I I took my chief of the boat, which is a senior enlisted, uh I had an independent command of a training boat, sub, but you know the people we were telling the parents, and as you guys know, meeting with the parents when their child went all too soon is even harder because you identify as parents what that feels like.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Sure, yeah. I mean it it is and and there's no fixing, it's it's sit being able to sit with someone in the midst of pain. Um there's vulnerability and and difficultiness to that. Um and yet there you sit and and you do your best to remind um yourself as much as you remind those that you're with of of God's presence even in the midst uh of this uh very difficult time.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I remember when Kyle uh came to see me when my mother was dying. And uh just him walking in uh was all he didn't have to say anything. And he didn't I don't know what he said. And but just the presence that you knew, you know, you weren't alone even though I didn't want to talk.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

I knew you were there, so I remember that driving home down Cumberland and pulling in. And I don't know what you know, is I those spirit moments, those holy moments, like you know, I think I ought to swing in and see how things are going. And um and those are are those are moments, touch points that remind me as a pastor, why I'm called to do the things that I do, um, and the friendships that form out of those deeply uh personal moments that you share with with your members.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

I think something that um Dick, you you mentioned as you were talking a little bit about your faith journey that I found interesting because one of the ways in which I knew that um I would really like Dick was that he he said to me, he asked me about Richard Rohr one day, and uh we all love Richard Rohr, and I thought I I I resonate with anyone that reads Richard Rohr. Uh you mentioned your father being a minister, and you at some point not uh not tracking with his theology, finding his theology not to be yours. At what point in your life was that? And how did you how did you come to that realization?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

My father died when I was 13 years old. So uh as I go through it now, I I say, boy, I wish I would have challenged him on this. Maybe he would, you know, he was 43 years old, 42, 43, and maybe I was different at 42, 43, so I can cut him some slack. But you know, it was I was brought up with um at the time strong anti-semitism. Uh I'm sure uh racism. Um I'd laugh at it, even though one of the places he moved us to uh was a basement apartment and um right by the railroad attack, so it was a little different uh um diversity than I'd had before. But he always it was always what we're against. And you guys are probably too young to remember, but I remember the and this is um I won't say the denomination because I'm sure they've changed. But the ministers used to get up and they would have the sermon outlined on a board in front of the church. And as a kid, I would say, oh my gosh, it's we're a half hour and they're only on point B and there's down to E. Is this ever going to get over? So I don't know. You start making looking for the exit doors. Where can I leave? Where can I leave? And there's no exit. Yes, but uh uh the more I thought when I read, I I found what Christ was for, the more I read the Bible, I found what he was for seemed to ring out larger to me than what he was against. You know, he was a he was against the norms where everybody sort of had, uh if you will, very legalistic interpretation. Uh it's almost like a debate society, and we're not debating, you know, where uh the house is big enough for us all. Like the old joke goes when St. Peter meets the man at the pearly gates and he wants to show him heaven. And yeah, and you guys all probably know this one, but i i it it's an example. But anyway, he takes him and he sees hears a lot of singing and music, and he says, Oh, you know, that's uh as we used to call them the holy rollers with uh big rock bands long before we went that way. And he went to another and he heard the Gregorian chants, oh those uh a particular uh order of the Catholic Church. And then he went by another and he said, he said, Shh, be quiet. Why? He said the Baptists are in there and they think they're the only ones. And and that and that my father wasn't a Baptist preacher, that's why I'll throw their name out. But but that was what they were doing, and I didn't think that was uh I've had very, you know, I never went to a Christmas Eve service, though I went to a Catholic church in college. And uh because uh our church never believed in that, they said there's nothing in the Bible that says December 25th is Christmas, therefore we won't celebrate. Well, that's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

So it's interesting that even still today, many Christians and many people outside of Christianity look at Christianity and believe that most Christians know what they're against way more than they know what they're for.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

That's interesting. I would agree.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Well, and it's uh Roar falling upward, where he talks about early on in our lives we create negative foundations of who we are, right? We uh we know we're not that, so we must be this, and that the rest of our life is kind of pulling out those boxes and and truly figuring out who we are. And not only do we do that in a life, but in our faith formation is we we are so quick to say what we're not, instead of uh coming at it through a sense of of of wonder, um, of awe, of, of questioning, and realizing that um uh there is beauty in that instead of trying to be, to your point, so legalistic in uh if I check these boxes, I'm okay. And and I think there's so much more to our faith formation than just checking boxes.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah. Years ago, I think one of the things that kind of got me started on the right was Annie Lamont's book on traveling mercies. And Annie Lamont took it down in a street vernacular, and I thought, yeah, she's talking about the message, not the rules. And and I remember going to uh our daughter's church uh at when they were l at the time they were living in the city in Chicago and it was an evening service, maybe it's a Christmas Eve service, and this guy came in off the street in his Episcopal church, and he looked I mean he looked like basically he's a street person. And he was coughing, and as you know from episcopal tradition, uh you take the bread and you sip the same wine cup, and I found, oh my gosh, I hope I'm not right after him. And uh but what struck me was how people got up and went back and made sure he was comfortable. What struck me was I realized I shouldn't worry about things like that. That's that's you know, it's it's an open door. Yeah, the picture of Christ is his arms open, you don't see him that often with him his arms crossed.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

That's a powerful example of being able to recognize Christ in the face of a stranger. Yep. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

And even our own short sightedness. That um I'm not always going to get it right, but being open to that moment to see um our own short-sightedness and and to grow from that.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Dick, one of the things you've been involved with here at Geist is the uh mission trip to Guatemala. Uh-huh. Um tell us a little bit how you got involved in that and what your experience has been. I know um I'm sure Kyle had a role to play in your involvement in that, but tell us just a little bit how you felt called to go and serve in Guatemala and what your experience there has been and how it's uh shaped your faith.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Well, Kyle started, and Danny, you perpetuated it. So um we're a good tag team. Yeah, you're a good tag team. That's usually how it goes. And and Sarah was a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

That's right. Sarah went on one of those trips with us.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Absolutely. Um I felt like I wanted to do a mission trip. And um I think about it, I thought, well, this is something it's a place I've never been. And um I had taught when I was a professor at St. Mary of the Woods College. Um, we had a program called English Language Institute, where we had a lot of young women from um South America come up. So I was interested in the culture, and uh they would uh develop their English skills and then move on. I taught them when they're went on into the university or the college. But my experience there was so eye eye-opening the those who have little give so much kind of keeps coming to my mind. They had not much to give, but they gave what they could. And uh we give what we have to spare. And uh I was telling someone the story of when as a trip with Kyle, we went to the church. It was on it was in uh October, the end of October, we went to the church in the center of town of Pa of Pawnham. And um on the outside, one of their large problems is alcoholism, and on the outside of the if you call it the fence or the property, you know, there are folks that had really made a lot of poor choices. But you walked in, we wanted to go into the church, and it was an evening service. I don't know if Kyle remembers this, but we were welcomed, and and I was looking around, and I've been in churches in different countries, and could pretty well figure out, you know, if you've been to one Catholic church, you've been to them all. Maybe they were just a little different in Christ, he may have been he he adopts the persona of whatever nationality is there. Uh but in this church he had things that I couldn't understand. So I I don't know if you remember, I motioned over the priest. I thought, well, he's educated, he can speak English. He couldn't. But we noticed this family that was about midway up the uh the rows in the in the church. And by the way, the church was packed. Um and they kept pointing to their daughter, who was probably a little bit, it's probably around 10.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

10 or 11, probably about the age of Miriam, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Yeah, that's what I was and pointing to her and finally. So I thought, ah, this little girl's had some English. And she did, she translated for us. She did. And the and and to see the smile on her parents' face, my goodness, that I would have paid for another trip right there. I mean, it was just it was just amazing. And uh we and within the people, the they you know, the the conditions that they live in and we build these homes that we would basically probably park our car in. I mean i we don't I mean, you know, they're concrete block, cement floors, they do have indoor and they think they're a palace. And you look at what they're living in, you would not put you wouldn't put your lawnmower in these places. And that's if you think your lawnmower is going to be stolen, you'd put them wouldn't put them in.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

A lot of it was perspective. I mean, just you you see and and and that first uh trip, uh, we worked with Carmelinda and uh she was actually moved to the top of the list uh for those needing a home. And and one of the things that we love, um Porch de Solomon, we'll include it in the link uh down below if you want to know more information. They do a really good job of of caring well for the people of Guatemala. Um and and one of the things they do is, you know, the girls get their own room, the boys get their room, and and mom and dad, if there is a mom and dad together, they they get their own room. And one of the things that we have found out through through this is oftentimes uh when they build a house for Solomon's porch, uh the deed goes in both uh the the wife and husband's name because what they had seen within the culture is uh after the house is built, if it's in the husband's name, then he kicks the family out. Uh not all the time, but they had seen this trend. And so uh they um uh empower uh the wife uh to have equal ownership in the house, and so it it legal, it it keeps uh a husband from abusing uh their power. And so um, you know, they have a kitchen, uh, but Carmelinda's son, uh, due to the conditions that they were living in, had unfortunately a respiratory issue, and uh due to that uh living condition, it cost his life at an early age. And you know, one of the things I I going to that church and and watching that child who is now my daughter's age uh walk us through. Um I also remember going to uh the burial site of Carmelinda's son and and we were there uh and celebrating and and finishing that uh monument to him. And one of the things they do around Halloween um is they fly kites as a way of of connecting us to those. And and you know, people are cemeteries, the way in which they uh mourn and celebrate the dead is just so very different.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

It it was a celebration, and I told Kyle from that time up, I I hope we get to go back during that time because you know they have a meal there at the grave site. You know, they they s it it's not the macabre view that we have.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

You know, they they you know we saw them carrying a casket up a hill on the street. Yeah, it was like a parade in the street with uh with the pall bears in that hill.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

It was a mountain. It was a mountain.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

I mean, carrying it the pall bear carrying it over their heads, uh, it was pretty pretty amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

It's it's a beautiful culture. And I remember one family brought a whole tray of fruit for us.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

And um and going to get flowers, we went to the market and yeah, we went to the and here's an interesting thing, and you uh uh uh from from my we took up a collection among those of us that went. We did uh two things uh, but uh I guess for the same family, but this time we knew we were going out to cemetery, we were going to dress up uh the the the plot, and actually she didn't have enough money for the plot. She didn't. A brother-in-law gave her uh space, but we went to this open market, we pulled her money, we said we're gonna buy flowers. And we let let the mother pick out the lab, I mean, as she should have picked out the flowers, but she she picked out the flowers and she said, We'd like to have some candles. And we said, Okay, go ahead, and we were prepared to take more money, and we had virtually the exact amount that she needed for the candles.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Oh, I'd forgotten that. It was it was awesome. And it was scary. It was so Dick, one of the other things we talk about Guatemala and and kind of some of your one of the other things that Deanny mentioned early on is you are cyclist. Yes. Uh you are an avid cyclist, you have traveled the country uh participating in different what is um talk about cycling as a spiritual discipline. You may not see it as that. I would say that of you. Um it's a chance for you to connect in a way that um is not traditional for me. I don't ride a bike very often, but you you do how is that a spiritual practice for you?

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Well, I I guess I never uh when you said that I think it well, there's times uh you folks know Todd Eisenminger. Uh he and I would discuss theology on some of the rides. Uh another fellow um uh um uh Shockley Flick, who is uh used to be at E91. That's a great name. Yeah. And he and I would discuss theology. But you know, one of the things, anything you can get at, whether you're walking, uh hiking in the woods, just walking, uh it's uh a thing that Richard Rohr, by the way, is talking in his weekly devotional. You can take a pilgrimage, you know, walking down the street. Right. And so it's uh it's allowing your mind to think. Uh now I would caution you can't get too deep in thought when you're on a cycle because you have to pay attention, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

There are people out there trying to kill you. So, but but it is anything, you know. Uh uh, it's it's you know, Paul will always talk about, you know, the body's pretty important, keeping your body tuned as well as your spirit tuned. And uh, and I know, you know, I I laugh when it when your body's got pain all the time, it's pretty depressing. When that pain is lifted, you just want to around, want to run around and hug everybody. So uh there is a very strong connection there.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Uh the other thing I I was curious, and and we usually ask this, is is um what unanswered, and my guess is knowing you like we know you, there may be more than one, but uh what unanswered questions do you have about your faith?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

For me, I tell myself I believe it, but the unanswered question uh and I think a lot of people have is why? Uh why is it this way? You know, if if if it's uh a perfect God, why does he have to give pain? Well sometimes I think you never know joy till you've of winning, till you've known the agony of defeat, so to speak. But but why? You know, so and and uh you know I look at Paul's, you know, now you know in part, then you'll know fully. So I think, well, maybe this is all teaching me because it's if you didn't experience this, how can you relate to somebody without faith? How can you walk them through it? You can't walk them through it by quoting chapter and verse. You walk through it by just like you guys have said, just being there and and seeing how you react to a situation. So my you know, I think it would be a great discussion and and heaven is okay, Paul, why'd you think this way? Because I always have some questions, Paul. What'd you think about that? And I put him in his in the time of society, historical perspective helps me sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Absolutely. I think a lot of people would ask that same question. We um, Dick, every every guest we like to ask the same final question too. And um the question is uh what is the last book you read, television series you watched, podcast you listened to, um that that you enjoyed, that was entertaining, that meant something to you, uh, just that you would like to to share?

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Well, um the last I'll give you the last two, one a nonfiction and a fiction. The nonfiction, I've had this book since 2002. It was given to me at a conference and it was called Bush's War, and it was written by Bob Woodward. And so I said, I've had this on my shelf because I have some opinions about that war.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

So you took it home and you've just now read it.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Just now read it. Okay. I opened it up and it said to Dick from Bob Woodward. Wow. No kidding. Oh my gosh. Well, and I I have some respect for the man because he he takes no prisoners. Right. But it's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

He risks a lot to tell the stories he tells.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

And it is a very interesting, very interesting book because it was um is an Iraq war. Um the first when we went in Afghanistan, and I remember So he's talking about the first Bush. Yeah, no, Bush 2. No, Bush 2, okay, okay. After 9-11. Okay. It opens with 9 11.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Gotcha, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So uh and I another side story that's not important, but I I happen to be in I won't talk about because it says I'm I was in the White House because a friend of mine worked there. And when Bush announced he was going into Iraq. So that was always kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Um I like how you casually drop that.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Well, that's why I I wouldn't be upset if you took that part out because uh we're keeping that in. No, it's in I feel guilty of uh but but the other book that I read is um i i well it was uh is Barbara Kingsolver, who I always her poison wood Bible would kind of remind me of some heritage. But this one is uh Demon Copperhead. It's her new book, right? Yeah, it's a new book. And it's a fantastic, she she does a fantastic job in fiction with a message. And I don't know if you have read, but you know, it's it's pretty topical because it's about the opioid issue. And um, and so those are the two books. Uh I'm always uh I'm always reading, and so I pester a lot of people, you know, what are you reading? Uh and and so that's how I, you know.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

That's great. Those are two great uh great options for people to to check out. Thanks so much for sharing them.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Dick just had a force gump moment with, you know, force gump was in all these famous scenes of history, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Well, I happened to be in the White House when uh that's why I think you buried the lead. That was pretty good. Yeah. Can I can I give a follow-up?

SPEAKER_02 37:08

You can.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I was feeling pretty I was out there for a financial conference and my friends said, and I stayed with them. Can you come up? And I said, of course, you know, if you want me to come, I suppose. But I was feeling pretty pretty big about myself as I boarded the plane, you know, and and kind of starting. If my mom could see me now, you know. I get home and we had picked up this, we'd taken this German shepherd who had issues from my daughter, uh, because she was training for a marathon. And I walk in the house and we have this dining room with this rug we had made was white with the green border, and the dog had issues all over the rug. The rug. So there I was. I said, you know, one moment you're thinking you were pretty pretty top stuff. And next moment you're cleaning up a dog mess that you can you're gagging as you're going through.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Oh, back to that highs and lows. Highs and lows.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

So God has a wonderful way of telling me who you really are.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

It's uh sense of humor. It's always tell God the plan and and and watch that probably not unfold the way you want it to. Absolutely. Well, Dick, thanks so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Thank you, Dick. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you all for joining us, and we will uh uh we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

This has been another episode of Sacred Sit Downs. We hope you will join us next time as we explore the power of story. We can be found on all major platforms, so be sure to subscribe. As always, thanks for listening. Until next time, this is Sacred Sit Downs.