Sacred Sitdowns
Sharing one’s personal story is sometimes hard, but it is holy. Sacred Sitdowns seeks to allow a safe space for faith-filled conversations with members and friends of Geist Christian Church. Hosts Kyle Brown and Danny Gulden hope that all those who hear will be enlightened and inspired. Listen with us. You’ll be glad you did.
Sacred Sitdowns
Casey Osterkamp
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Casey Osterkamp is currently serving as the vice president of operations at Herron Classical Schools. This intentionally diverse, tuition-free, college prep charter school network serves 1,900 scholars in three schools in downtown Indianapolis. She and her family moved to Indianapolis earlier this year from Missouri where she was the director of the Division of Personnel for the State of Missouri. Casey started her professional career as a surface warfare officer in the U.S. Navy and has worked in management roles for the Chicago Public Schools and IBM. Casey earned her Bachelor of Science in Political Science and Communication from Northwestern University, her Master of Public Policy from Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, and her Master of Education Policy and Leadership from the University of Missouri. Casey, her husband Beau, and five-year-old son Jesse live in Indianapolis.
Let us tell you a story. A story that will challenge, inspire, and change the way you see the world. We're your host. I'm Danny Goulden. And I'm Kyle Brown. And this is Sacred Sit Downs.
SPEAKER_01A conversational podcast that explores how the Spirit of God moves within this world through the power of story.
SPEAKER_00In today's episode, we will sit down with a member or friend of Geist Christian Church as they share their dynamic, faith-filled story.
SPEAKER_01We hope that you will be enlightened and inspired by the words shared today as we gain deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us. This is Sacred Sit Downs. Well, hello, Kyle. Good afternoon. Hey Danny, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm doing really good today. We have a great episode in store today. Season two is rolling right along. Casey, how are you?
SPEAKER_03I'm doing fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Our guest today is Casey Osterkamp. Casey was born in Columbus, Ohio, just recently moved here to Indianapolis in January. So new to our city. Casey, and and we'll get more into this. I told Kyle before we started recording, Casey is the most impressive person we've had on the podcast so far to this point. She's a graduate of Northwestern University. She has a master's degree from the Harvard Kennedy School of Business and Public Policy. She has served in the Navy. She has a master's in public policy from the University of Education. Masters of Education from the University of Missouri. She was the director of personnel in the state of Missouri and here in Indianapolis. She currently serves as the COO for the Heron Classical Schools. She is married to her husband Bo, and they have one son, Jesse.
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SPEAKER_01Did I get and Casey brought the biggest water bottle to any recording we've ever done?
SPEAKER_00It's huge. And I have a water bottle, and she just kind of looked at me and goes, Hey Kyle, nice water bottle. And it's very small compared to.
SPEAKER_03I mean it's a gallon.
SPEAKER_00And mine is not that. So but this your bottle looks at least two gallons.
SPEAKER_01Oh one gallon. Oh yeah, it does. Well, that's proof. That's proof. And you finish that every day.
SPEAKER_03Every day. That's impressive.
SPEAKER_00So I'm so glad that you got to do the intro. And you just a little flub because if I would have messed up uh all over the place. I mean that is that is quite an impressive resume. Casey, welcome.
SPEAKER_03Just in the right place at the right time. Well.
SPEAKER_00And sometimes it's good to step through those doors when you're in the right. You still have to respond when you're in those. So uh Casey, tell us a little bit about um your story. Um where were you know, Danny talked about kind of the touch points, but you were born in um Columbus, Ohio.
SPEAKER_03To but I'm not a Buckeye fan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you said you grew up an Iowa Hawkeye fan.
SPEAKER_03Yes. So my dad, huge Iowa Hawkeye fan. I was a daddy's girl, only child growing up. And so I was a huge Iowa Hawkeyes fan. Um I used to go to Ohio State football games with all decked out in Iowa apparel and get I remember being booed by uh by fans when I was seven years old.
SPEAKER_01So when you're a kid, they're booing you. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Those are those are some hardcore fans. It's a hard place to grow up when you are not a Buckeye fan. But uh that's why I chose to go to Northwestern because it was the nerdiest school I could find with Big Ten sports or major sports. So that's still true today.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, we don't talk about their football team. Yeah, we'll just we'll skip over that. That's another addition. So did you grow up in the church?
SPEAKER_03Uh yes. So uh I grew up in a Presbyterian church, the church where Bo and I got married, Worthington Presbyterian Church, but my dad uh grew up Lutheran, and so I learned Lord's Prayer with trespasses, which is something my dad and I try to always sp spit it spit in when uh the other words go in there. Not that it makes that big of a difference to me, but it yeah. Um and so grew up in Presbyterian church. I uh became a disciples when I married my husband because when I moved to Washington, DC, I was going church shopping and it was uh the third closest church to my apartment. And both says I walked in, saw the cute minister in the pulpit and couldn't leave.
SPEAKER_00So who was a cute minister in the pulpit? Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Like I So how did you get to Northwestern? What I mean, I know that it was uh Big Ten school, like uh what did you choose to study while you were there?
SPEAKER_03So I did Navy ROTC while I was at Northwestern, and so you apply for ROTC program at the same same time as you apply to a school. And I uh I'm a big planner type A and I went early decision there, so I didn't have to think about it if I got in. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01So did you have family history in the Navy? Was that my grandfather was an admiral. Okay.
SPEAKER_03So he was in for 35 years.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_03And uh yeah, I this is the corny part of Casey here, but I was a had an incredibly privileged upbringing, only child. I did tennis and ballet, and I was on a path to only meet a certain type of person in my life, and the Navy changed all that. Um gives great perspective on a day-to-day basis when people freak out or worry about little things that seem very big in their mind, but it sounds a little dramatic, but there's no one shooting at you, and you're going home to your family tonight, so you're gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00So, did you go straight into the Navy after you graduated? Yep.
SPEAKER_03Same day graduation was the same day we were commissioned.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So any doubts about that, or did you know this is what I want to do? So you're 18 at this point. Seventeen. Seventeen.
SPEAKER_03My birthday's in September, yep. And uh it was the first time I had really been yelled at in my entire life. And uh it's yeah, unpack that right there too. Um I just remember bawling and I called my parents and I said, I don't care how much money this is saving us on tuition, I can't do it. Um but got through and I'm glad I did. I I mean, I was I met so many different types of people, and that's really why I went into education, because I met people from all parts of the country who um didn't have the education that I had. And so that's why my passion for policy and process and um the do-gooder part of me and um educational quality. So that's I'm in my dream job right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Did so I assume it gave you a sense of discipline you might not have otherwise had. I mean, did you go in there earlier?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's a joke in my family uh whether or not I I was this type A before the Navy or whether or not the Navy did it. Um I had these tendencies beforehand. Gotcha. It was it was an easy, yeah, easy jump for you. It wasn't anybody you ask. I like to be very organized and on top of things. And so then the Navy was good for me like that.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell So was there a when did that transition happen for you between that being screamed at this shock and awe at the beginning? When did you find your stride and and move from uh can I get out of this to here? And I'm sure it didn't happen overnight, it was probably a process. But do you remember?
SPEAKER_03I mean, Northwestern's not a huge school, but it's 8,000 people. And so it's it was always good to be part of a a team, a crew, a group of people who had the same mission in mind, who were working towards towards a common goal. And that really when I was in the Navy on ships, uh as difficult as it was, as tiring as it was, as scary as it was, you were all there for the same purpose and goal. And there's really something incredibly satisfying and motivating about that.
SPEAKER_00So now where how many uh tours did you have in in your service?
SPEAKER_03So I did three deployments.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um, and uh uh so three deployments in four years.
SPEAKER_00And um is that a lot or is that fairly normal?
SPEAKER_03Not during 2005 to 2009 time frame. Okay. Yeah, there's a lot of it.
SPEAKER_01A bit of an unstable time around the world. Yeah, definitely. Um And by the time you finished, you you had achieved the rank of lieutenant, right? And so you you served on an aircraft carrier, right?
SPEAKER_03Is that or uh So it's kind of the easy my first two deployments were on the guided missile cruiser. Okay. Guided missile, yes. Yep, so guided missile cruiser is the Lake Champlain, which is actually being um retired, or I keep blanking on the actual phrase right now, but it's the ship that uh drives fast and protects the aircraft carrier. And then so the interesting part about that is I was on it for three I was on it with 350 men and five women.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_03And we all joked, I don't know which one is more uh um intense. The that ratio or the fact that all five women were in one room for six months at a time on deployment.
SPEAKER_01Um they they didn't even have a second room for you all.
SPEAKER_03Well, we all fit in one room, three beds on top of each other, so that's it. We had an extra one to store whatever stuff. Yeah, store stuff. Because five women you can see.
SPEAKER_00No, well, yeah, I guess. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy.
SPEAKER_03And then my third deployment was on the easiest way to describe it is a marine aircraft carrier, the USS Tarawa. And so they were uh about 2,500 Marines, um v more equal, probably like 25% women, 75% men, and then the Navy people that took the Marines to where they needed to be.
SPEAKER_00So you talk a little bit about shifting that perspective um that it gave you when you serve. Could you talk a little bit more about that?
SPEAKER_03So one of the things it definitely taught me decisiveness. I remember for whatever reason this sticks out in my mind. I remember being in a grocery store and debating what type of cereal am I gonna buy and like comparing the comparing different things on the box. And then after being in the military, you have to make so many quick decisions so quickly that that decision seems so trivial and silly in my mind. I mean, it's trivial and silly to most people, but that for some reason that always stuck out in my mind that in a split second you're making decisions that are going to affect hundreds of lives and trajectory of um a lot of things bigger than you in a split second. And so I think decisiveness and then the perspective of the world is so much bigger than any one of us, and it sounds silly to say that, but when you're when it takes you three weeks to get to the other side of the ocean on a ship, um, just the perspective.
SPEAKER_01Although cereal is important. I mean, that is a big decision, right?
SPEAKER_03I mean, that is I mean, the the sugar content, the fiber content. Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_01There's many delicious cereals. The price. The price, yeah, the price. I mean, so that is a lot of pressure. So I I understand.
SPEAKER_03I mean, even now I do this weird thing where I I put in a little handful of multi-grain Cheerios and a little handful of Raisin Bran Crunch. That's not the topic. No one cares about that.
SPEAKER_01No, but mix it, listen, mixing cereal, I I like it. I I do the same thing when I eat it. We do vacation cereal, we don't eat a lot of cereal, but when we go on vacation, we always have like trash cereal for breakfast. So it's like, you know, cookie crisp or whatever, golden grams. Tricks. Tricks are for kids.
SPEAKER_03People, I wasn't weren't they saying that cereal was out, like not that many people were buying it, but I was asking some kiddos at school the other day what they had for breakfast, and I would say like eight out of ten of them gave me a cereal answer.
SPEAKER_01I think it's making a comeback. Yeah. I really do. I don't have any evidence to prove that, but I mean, you've been doing research obviously on the cereal, so I take Casey's word for it. So, so when your time in the Navy comes to how did you make that decision? Oh, yeah. Um, did you consider staying in longer? What is what was the kind of year?
SPEAKER_03My commitment was four years. And I got out exactly four years later, and it was it was a handful of things, but I never had a woman boss or had a woman work for me. And so it was I couldn't see what my future looked like. And it's hard to date when you're on a ship in the middle of the ocean. Right. Uh so it really cramps your dating style and I wasn't getting any younger. I wanted to get married someday, wanted to have kids, and I really just couldn't see what my life looked like. And um I just it was a great experience. I'm so glad that I had it, but four years was plenty.
SPEAKER_00And so from there you went to the Kennedy School?
SPEAKER_03Yep, Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. Uh, I made friends so fast in that environment because everyone came to school today, came to school every day, thinking, how am I gonna save the world today and what actionable items am I going to do? Like that sounds silly, but that's literally what everybody was so passionate about making the world a better place and getting smarter to be able to do that and getting tools to be able to make a difference.
SPEAKER_01And public policy, I assume, gives you the foundation to be able to do that, but in a meaningful way, right?
SPEAKER_03So I always I always equate it, um, and a master's in public policy is a relatively new degree, I guess, in the sense of MBA, everybody knows what an MBA is. And so I see the difference. MBA is you you take statistics, you learn economics, you learn things that you need to know, but I always kind of joked it was to make rich people richer. And public policy was to create bubb public value. You learn the same things, you take stats, you do econ, you do um all all the other courses, but it's to create public value. How can you make the world a better place through institutions or nonprofits?
SPEAKER_01So while you were there, do you feel like um your interest? I don't I don't know if this is the right question, but in making the world a better place, I mean, was there sort of a moment where you're like, this is this is too much of an uphill battle, or this is like was there were there moments of discouragement in that in terms of of what could be what was actionable in the real world?
SPEAKER_03So it's it's interesting. Uh this might not be the direction you were gonna go. Well, it wasn't a very good question. So in different phases of my life, I feel like because I I grew up daddy's girl, he believed a certain pol politics um approach to the world. And every phase in my life, I have learned something different about the world that has either taken me away from that or at least expanded my worldview. And I think the thing that I took away from the policy program and the people that I met was that not everyone can just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and make the world what they want it to be and how they want to live in the world. That there are just systems in place, institutions, structures that don't allow for everyone to just work as hard as they can to get where they want to be. Um, and so I think that was the biggest mind shift for me in grad school. Um I think uh in my faith journey, uh, I think meeting my husband and talking more because he knows a whole lot more about the inner workings of the Bible and all those things than I do. But but by the grace of God, I was born in the United States as opposed to someplace else. And so that is something that I definitely almost like a light switch with me in terms of um, it's just a line in a in a country line that we drew or whoever drew so so long ago. And so it's it's more complicated than this, but but by the grace of God, we were born here and we have the rights that we have and the have and we have the privileges that we do. And so, how do we approach someone from another place just because they weren't born into what we were born into?
SPEAKER_01And I think by and large, the idea of the self-made person is a myth. You know, I think the reason when we hear those stories on occasion of someone who did that, they're probably also they're probably leaving out people who helped them, but it's such an incredible story. That's why we gravitate toward it. Um because it doesn't happen very often. I mean, and so I think um I resonate with that. I think too, when I've traveled, like especially in mission trips and other places, you realize the line based on what you're born, the line between you and other people. I mean, you could easily switch places based on where you were born, economic, all that. Yep, all that kind of stuff. Like I I kind of feel like I landed on third base by accident, like nothing, nothing I did for sure.
SPEAKER_03I think about that a lot when I think about raising my four-year-old son. Um, he is by all means going to be a straight white privileged man. And so how do I think about the decisions that I make every day and the things that I say to him to make sure that he he's one of the one of the do-gooders?
SPEAKER_00Going from service to uh an Ivy League school in an environment, you're in this kind of safe, suspended space surrounded by a lot of people of privilege who aren't aware of that, and you're like, Do you know what people are doing on a regular basis? And here you are enjoying creature comforts.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, how did how did you wrap your mind around that and to to process that in a way that was meaningful and helpful and allowed you to continue to be present with with folks?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so in the military, before you get out, you basically have to take a transition class. It's a week-long class of how to become a civilian again. And they they try to put as many things, remind you of as many things about the real world before you get out, because military people do struggle with that transition, struggle for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which is it's very hard to explain what you do in the military and how to translate it into a real world civilian job. And so they they do a lot of resume help and things like that. But I think school is probably the easiest way to transition, just because what you said, you're kind of like in your own little bubble of a different way. And so you have support structures, you have things in place. Um the Kennedy School does a great job of they welcome in a lot of military people and a lot of different people from different walks of life. Um, and so I think just by the nature of the people that they attract, people have some kind of perspective. There are a lot of um a lot of Teach for America people who go into it, a lot of um different um uh different different backgrounds. And so it that really wasn't a s a struggle in the sense of people not having the perspective there. Sure.
SPEAKER_01Um so during this time, you're you're in the Navy grad school, what what role is faith playing? Where is that in your life? What is what is going on with that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so growing up, my I went to church with my dad. Um my mom always joked, you can worship from your bed just as easy as you can the pew.
SPEAKER_01Um so uh And this is before online worship, of course.
SPEAKER_03Yes, exactly. Um and so the church was something that I went to because it was something my dad and I did together. We always went to the bakery afterwards. It was kind of our Sunday morning thing, right? And college was the first time that I actually went about my own choice to go to church. Um was really lucky that there was a campus ministry right next to my dorm. And it was um, it was um non-denominational in the sense that it brought um people from Methodist, Presbyterian, all um all Protestant religion backgrounds. Um and so that was the first time that I really took ownership of it and found friends and really did that. And then when I was in the Navy, I did the same thing. I I just felt like I needed something that reminded me of what was important, but it was more about the tradition of what I was doing with my dad on a weekly basis than it was about uh about trying to be part of a community or rooted you to a powerful memory and a powerful, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say anchored, maybe anchored in that. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03But it is, I mean, now that I'm married to a minister and my son loves going to church, uh, because he likes to dance to the music. Um but I it would be interesting, obviously, I don't know, the counterfactual, but if I wasn't married to a minister, how I would like to think that I would still be going to church every Sunday, but what would that church be and where would it be? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00So uh from grad school, moved to DC.
SPEAKER_03Moved to DC, yes, because where else do you move with a master's in public policy?
SPEAKER_00Public policy, but gotta go to DC.
SPEAKER_03Our graduating class was 200 and about two-thirds of us moved to DC. So we joked it was like your third year of grad school. I lived with the my roommate in DC, was the person I wrote my thesis with. And we all lived within like a mile of each other. Now, DC is a fantastic place to live in your late 20s, single. Oh yeah. Um and we we so I went to National City Christian Church, was the church where I met my husband. We had engagement photos taken in the uh sanctuary. How dorky is that?
SPEAKER_01So you went to but you went to church on your own. I mean, you asked, would I be, but you were checking out churches?
SPEAKER_03Um and then I saw the cute minister and I couldn't leave.
SPEAKER_01Couldn't leave.
SPEAKER_03Um, but yeah, so and I'll give Bo a little credit. Uh, he did a fantastic job building up the young adult community there. I mean, he he really built it up from just a few people to probably 30 or 40. Wow, that's awesome. And I mean, it's a great, like you have so many young adults, 20s, 30s, who who are probably, well, I mean, looking for some place to ground them and some some consistency because DC is not a very it's uh it's a churn of lots of people.
SPEAKER_00It is kind of that a landing spot, and and it's I mean, you just said most of your class goes. There to do public policy. Not everyone is going to find a job that is going to pay them to be able to live in a city that is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And then, I mean, Bo and I left because we knew it was too expensive to have kids and we really wanted to have a child. So, I mean, we didn't uh we couldn't fathom what it would look like. I mean, people do it all the time. I still have friends from grad school who have families there and they do it. Um, but we were both from the Midwest originally, and so we we envisioned cars and which we did not have in DC and driving places, and so that took us to Missouri, a state I'd never been to before we decided to move there.
SPEAKER_01So you never step foot. Nope. He came home.
SPEAKER_03We lived a mile north of the White House, and he came home one day and said, What do you think about moving to Jefferson City, Missouri? And I said, And what did you you're looking at? What did you think about moving? I my I was like, I think I answered that on a Capitals quiz once in like fourth grade or fifth grade, because that is the Capitol. That is the 42,000 metrop person metropolis of Jefferson City. Um, so yeah, it was a great phase of our life. We our so we had our son there, met some fantastic people. I got the opportunity to be the director of personnel for the state, um, which you would I would have never done in a Indianapolis, for example. So yeah, it was a great phase, but I'm super excited that we're in Indianapolis now.
SPEAKER_00So uh what in this transition to Indianapolis have you enjoyed the most? Um restaurants. Restaurants?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00So I know you're you're you're a little bit of a foodie. You enjoy really good food. Yeah. Uh what's been your favorite restaurant so far since you've moved to the city?
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, that's a that's a hard question.
SPEAKER_00That's a good question, though.
SPEAKER_03That yeah. Oh my goodness. Um you know, it's hard for me to answer that because I'm trying to try out all the different restaurants, and so I I haven't I haven't let myself go back to a second a place the second time. And I feel like the first time you can always get this is a total cop-out answer. Um, because I'm avoiding answering your question.
SPEAKER_01Uh because you're in a new city, you want to explore new restaurants, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because the real test is if you go back a second time and it's still that good.
SPEAKER_00Now, is there a particular genre of food that you gravitate to more than others?
SPEAKER_03Uh ethnic food. Okay. Um, I'm having dinner, so I found international marketplace.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03Uh over on the west side.
SPEAKER_01Lafayette Square. It's good. I mean, you can find we we've had uh dim sum down there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they turned like strip malls into uh all different quit types of cuisines. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Ethiopian.
SPEAKER_03So it's not like a freestanding place, it's like a couple miles of the road.
SPEAKER_00Oh, no kidding.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's some good, you have to because we not know. We we moved here from Atlanta, which is a very has a very diverse dining scene and a lot of different options. And so when we first got here, um we were a little, you know, it was a little bit harder for us. Same thing. We wanted to go places once, and um, but once you start finding things, I mean you got to hunt a little harder here, but there's some really good, really good restaurants here, and really um, but just that, yeah, that side Lafayette Square, west side of Indy. I mean, there's some really great ethnic food restaurants over there. Kyle, I'll take you over there one day. Thanks, Danny. Yeah, appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00I would love nothing more. Absolutely. Be glad to do it. So why don't you tell us a little bit a little bit about what you do and the school?
SPEAKER_03So Heron Classical Schools is a charter school network. Um, we are part of the IPS Innovation Network. So we are public uh charter school in Indianapolis. We have two high schools, Heron High School, which is the old Heron Art Museum. There's around a thousand students who are in that high school. And then we have Heron Riverside, which is a second high school, about 400 students over 30th Street and the White River Parkway. And then we just opened our uh third building, Heron Preparatory Academy. It's 3100 North Meridian on the just right next to the children's museum. And we are a tuition-free, intentionally diverse college prep uh community. And I love it because, as I mentioned, I had a really privileged upbringing, went to great schools, and when I was in the Navy, it became painfully obvious to me that not everyone was that lucky. Um, so I had um sailors that worked for me who were from all walks of life, from cattle ranchers to inner city um upbringings, and I was teaching them basic math and English. And these are 18-year-olds, 30-year-olds. And I I'm embarrassed to say that it shocked me. And so from then, my passion has always been trying to create an education system that gives equal opportunity to all kiddos. Um, and so my um background of places that I've worked is all in um systems thinking and process, um, process improvement. And so my dream job has always been doing operations for a charter school network because it's what I do. I'm not an educator. I I have so much respect for people who um can educate our kids every day, but that's not where my skill sets are. Mine are in the operation side of things, running the train, not getting the trains on time. Um, so my job, I tell the teachers, is to try to do everything, take everything off their plate so they can do the important work of educating kids. Um and so I uh my husband says I'm on our first date. What was what was my dream job? And I said to be the CO of a charter school network. And so here we are.
SPEAKER_00Here we are.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, explain a little bit. I'm I'm kind of curious. Uh, you know, charter schools get thrown around a lot in the media. Um I would love for you to give me a perspective of a charter school like me would be able to understand.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So each charter school, whether or not it's a school or part of a network, has a different, a different approach, a different, um, a different way of doing things. And Heron Classical Schools is all about the classical model of educating. And so a couple really concrete examples is that we start teaching Latin in kindergarten. Um we are very much the uh classical, Socratic um sense of responsibility for individuals. And so um the common common respect between teachers and students. Um, we we do have uh rules like no phones, we wear uniforms, um, we we expect students to be on time, we expect them to show respect to each other and to teachers. And so um it's it's an environment where we we don't have um, we don't we we try to create an environment where students want to be there and teachers want to be there. Um we uh we accept any student who wants to come to us. So we are a part of the enroll indie um uh enrollment system that all Indianapolis schools are. And so we um I know that sometimes charter schools get a bad rap in the sense of, oh, you only take the smartest students, or oh, you you don't have to deal with students who have special needs. And I'll get on my little high horse here is a huge part of my job at the beginning of the school year has been ensuring that we can get all students, including students who um do not have a home right now, to school. And so a lot of my job is trying to figure out how to get them transportation to get to school, how um, how to get kids who don't have enough money for uniforms, how we can get them vouchers to get money for uniforms, how to make sure that students um who don't have enough money to pay for school or to pay for lunches have have the resources they need and go through the programs um to get those resources. And then um I love the fact that those students are being educated next to um a lot of people who might have the opportunity to send their kids to Park Tutor or Cathedral, but they like the fact that we have the highest scores. Heron High School has the highest scores for SAT and for general, um, general education uh measures in Indianapolis. Um I'm excited to have my son start there next year. Um, just the the difference, I really do believe that you learn a lot from the students that you go to school with. Um and we have diverse, diverse teacher population. Um, so it's it's a place I'm really proud to be a part of.
SPEAKER_01So any any student who's eligible to go to an Indianapolis public school can go to your school. That's uh okay.
SPEAKER_03So the same way, the same way that you enroll your student in, they call it round one, round two enrollment in enroll indie, you can you can select Heron Classical Schools. You can collect select Heron Prep Academy. And we we have transportation because usually that's a big barrier because we are in downtown. Right. Um, but we have people we we try to provide transportation for any um elementary age student, and then for the high schoolers, we give indigo bus passes um to to get to school.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think an educ uh to me, I mean, I uh growing up as a person of privilege, I mean, there was never a doubt I was gonna go to college. It wasn't an option not to go to college. And um you kind of forget there's f for many who are the first people in their family to to go to college, to finish high school. Um and I think education's important. I mean, I I think it's really, really important. And so to give kids the opportunity who may not otherwise have the opportunity to do that, to have that path is is life-giving. I mean, that's important.
SPEAKER_03And to set high expectations. Right. You you can, you may not choose to, but you will be prepared to go to college.
SPEAKER_00Right. All right. So Casey, one of the things that uh has been throughout the story we've shared today is is this good-looking minister that you ran into and then eventually married. And uh what has it been like um being uh the the wife of a pastor? I mean, because part of the move to Jefferson was taking a job to serve Jefferson City to serve at a church. What what what has that been like for you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I'm definitely not the typical pastor's wife. I don't play the piano and I don't teach Sunday school. Uh at our church in Jefferson City, I was the go-to A V booth person in the back. Um I always joke with Bo that if I thought he's had a bad joke or I could hear him singing, I would just mute him.
SPEAKER_01Um You have a lot of power. A lot of power as the A V person.
SPEAKER_03Um I think for me, uh people just have a lot of assumptions, um, especially um in the black church, for example, what the first lady's responsibilities are. And so it's it's it's interesting when you say, Oh, I'm married to a minister, what people's reaction is. Um and I I think that because of the jobs that I've had, people have always understood that I have a full-time job and I'm not, you're not getting a two-for-one deal, right? Like you're not getting Casey uh when you when you hired both. Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Um I'm not gonna be the uh the other pastor that's unpaid.
SPEAKER_03Yep, exactly. I I really enjoy um the Jesse, my four-year-old, lets me get away with a lot. He loves dancing in church. And so he and I are dancing in the front of the church uh whenever there's music. And I'm not sure if I wasn't the pastor's wife, if somebody might, you know, look look a little funny at me because of that, but I'm gonna roll with it and I'm gonna create the opportunity for other kiddos and moms and dads to get down there and dance to enjoy it because my son loves going to church. Um, so I I see it as uh yeah, I'm I when I married Bo, he was not a minister full-time. And so I did not necessarily sign up for this.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Um, but I think um I I think this day and age, people don't necessarily assume that I'm gonna do uh what whatever they thought it was, but it's definitely not gonna be that. It's gonna be A V booth and dancing in the front of church.
SPEAKER_00I I like both of those are great. I think that is fascinating and and wonderful.
SPEAKER_01So what is what is Jesse's favorite TV show for? What does he like to watch?
SPEAKER_03So right, uh he's Spidey and his amazing friends. Oh, yeah. He's still holding on to Paw Patrol. Bo would tell you I'm a little bit of a um screen time control freak.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03I uh I save it up. I totally bought into all the things that it's killing his brain cells. And so I save it up for when we uh when we want to have an adult dinner or adult conversation times.
SPEAKER_01That's smart.
SPEAKER_03Yep. So I uh Jesse and I went away to visit my dad in Columbus, Ohio last weekend, and I was so proud to tell Bo he only watched 15 minutes of screen time, and that was when we went to church and he can't concentrate during the sermon.
SPEAKER_00That's an impressive amount of screen time, though. So I I have a question. You talked about being daddy's girl and having a very strong uh relationship with your father. You also talked about him seeing the world one way, and the longer you have lived your life, that's not exactly how you see the world. I'm curious how you have navigated that as you've grown up.
SPEAKER_03That's been that's been very difficult for me, to be quite honest, because yes, daddy's girl, my mom worked a lot, traveled a lot, and so my dad and I spent tons of time together. I worship the ground. I mean, he he was my everything. And then as I got a little went to college, learned some things, thought, oh, daddy doesn't know everything all the time. Right. Um, Navy saw some things, experienced some things that he hadn't. Um and then the interesting thing has been uh seeing my faith journey and his faith journey. He's a very he's a very religious person. He believes that all of the uh um things, even political approaches that he has are based in his faith. And it's just so interesting for me to think about a lot of the decisions that I make about my life, I think are also based in how I would see the world through my faith journey and what I think Jesus would want us to be.
SPEAKER_01You could both be called faith-based voters. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And um, I I also try to remember that my dad is grew up in a small town in the middle of Iowa. The perspective and the upbringing that he has is just different from mine. And the opportunities and the things that I've seen are different. And so you can't you can't fault someone for having the thought and the approach that they have if they have never been kind of their. I don't want to, it sounds, I mean, my dad's a brilliant man, but the the opportunities that he's had to see things are just different than mine.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03Um, and so that that is a struggle for mine and from for me. And I think that I just keep my mouth closed um when I might want to say something because I don't want to make a fight when I mean you never know how many years you have left with your parents. Sure.
SPEAKER_01All right, Casey, we um ask all of our guests a final question. So this will be your final question. And um, a lot of our listeners have come back and said, I really enjoyed um hearing what this person had to say about this and checked it out. So we we we ask, um, is there a favorite TV show or book or podcast that you watch, listen to, read? Um, we won't ask about Jesse because we know he has limited screen time, but for you um that that you would recommend that that you enjoy and have gotten something out of and um would like to share with everyone else.
SPEAKER_03So um Bo and I have been re-watching The West Wing. Oh, it's a great show out of rewatched it probably like five or six times.
SPEAKER_01It has stood the test of time.
SPEAKER_03And because it's just for so many reasons, but uh it's so idealistic. Like it's it's how the it's how I want it to be, it's how the world can be. And I just love me some Josh Lyman. Um and yeah.
SPEAKER_01It has stood the test of time.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it's so weird because sometimes they'll have storylines and that like just happened two months ago.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03In current day. It's like how didn't they know that?
SPEAKER_00Right. The uh the episode on the virus, like it the the end of the world is not gonna come through uh nuclear attack, it's going to be somebody dropping a vial in the streets. But I mean, you know, it's this mass pandemic, whether it's man created or just world created. I'm like, oh my god, COVID. Or I mean it he was so uh enamored with the school board vote. And I'm like, oh, yep.
SPEAKER_01Are you in my community right now? I mean, do you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a good that's a great suggestion. Well, congratulations. You're almost at almost finished. I'm almost at your water on Casey's 7 p.m.
SPEAKER_00And it's uh right now uh we're finishing this podcast around 5 30. Yeah, so you're ahead of water schedule. So congratulations, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me. Yeah, Casey, thank you so much for making time to do this. Absolutely. Um it's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_03Well, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00This has been another episode of Sacred Sit Downs. We hope you will join us next time as we explore the power of story. We can be found on all major platforms, so be sure to subscribe. As always, thanks for listening. Until next time, this is Sacred Sit Downs.