Sacred Sitdowns
Sharing one’s personal story is sometimes hard, but it is holy. Sacred Sitdowns seeks to allow a safe space for faith-filled conversations with members and friends of Geist Christian Church. Hosts Kyle Brown and Danny Gulden hope that all those who hear will be enlightened and inspired. Listen with us. You’ll be glad you did.
Sacred Sitdowns
Megan Phillippe
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In this episode of Sacred Sitdowns, Danny and Kyle welcome Megan Phillippe to explore the intersections of architecture, social justice, and public art. Megan shares their journey from growing up in a family of educators to pursuing a PhD in architecture, focusing on urban design and equity. They discuss the impact of historical events in Charlottesville on Megan’s work, the significance of public monuments, and how art can serve as a tool for community healing and engagement. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation on the power of design, education, and storytelling in shaping more just and inclusive spaces
Let us tell you a story. A story that will challenge, inspire, and change the way you see the world. We're your host. I'm Danny Goulden. And I'm Kyle Brown, and this is Sacred Sit Downs.
SPEAKER_00A conversational podcast that explores how the Spirit of God moves within this world through the power of story.
SPEAKER_01In today's episode, we will sit down with a member or friend of Geist Christian Church as they share their dynamic, faith-filled story.
SPEAKER_00We hope that you will be enlightened and inspired by the words shared today as we gain deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us. This is Sacred Sit Downs. Welcome to Sacred Sit Downs. We're glad that you are here today. Hello, Kyle. Good afternoon. Hi Danny, how are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I am so excited for our guest today. Uh, Megan Philippi. Did I say that right, Megan? You did. Ooh, great. Thank you. I already asked her you're not related to Ryan.
SPEAKER_02That's right, as far as I know.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Okay. Well, that's good. We we you were our first choice of the Philippines anyway. So we're glad you're here. Um and looking forward to the conversation today. And so I think Kyle's gonna ask our first question of the day.
SPEAKER_01You know, we always like to when we have someone on, how how did you get here? Uh and that's kind of an open-ended question. You can take it however you want, but how did you get here?
SPEAKER_02Great question. So I grew up in Hanover, Madison, Indiana. I grew up in southern Indiana.
SPEAKER_01On the yeah, south side of the state. There we go.
SPEAKER_02And I had the pleasure of having four amazing parents that were actually three out of four were educators. And so I grew up in the church. I grew up in United Methodist Church. And I went to uh Trinity United Methodist, which is the historic church across from the Broadway fountain, if you know downtown Madison. So surrounded by architecture and history from the beginning. And um I did youth group and all those fun things growing up and went to uh college and continued church a little bit there and then finally Did you go to Hanover College? No.
SPEAKER_01Where'd you go to college?
SPEAKER_02I went to Ball State.
SPEAKER_01Ball State, chirp, chirp.
SPEAKER_02I did.
SPEAKER_01You came north.
SPEAKER_02I did.
SPEAKER_01North.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was either it was either Ball State or University of Kentucky, believe it or not.
SPEAKER_01I'm not gonna say you chose poorly, but you made the right choice. You definitely made the right choice. So why did you choose ball state over UK?
SPEAKER_02Because I had in-state tuition. That's smart. Yeah, uh they gave me more scholarships. Okay. Um so I wanted to study architecture. And so that's why I went to Ball State and uh had that in-state scholarship, all that fun stuff. And so graduated, went to Indianapolis, met my husband, Michael, who's also a member at Geist, and he was an architecture as well, but he went to be a contractor instead. So and then we started going to church at Northwood. Okay. Um and then we finally decided, well, it was more me than him, but I wanted to get my master's degree in architectural history. So I went to University of Virginia to do that. And we moved to Charlottesville. And in Charlottesville, we uh went to First Pres, which First Presbyterian church in downtown Charlottesville, which was a great experience for us. We did a lot of youth group leadership, we were deacons, we were all kinds of things there. It was a great experience. And then eventually we had a daughter and we came back to Indianapolis and then through It was a mutual friend.
SPEAKER_01What you you all know John Davidson?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Jay John Davidson had suggested coming back to Geist. Okay. So that's where we we had been. And actually we had been in I had been in a wedding at Geist a long time.
SPEAKER_01Which is a small world because I John and I went to seminary together. So it was I remember him calling and saying, Hey, you these folks may walk through the door of the church, be mindful, and and I just think that's so cool uh that connection as you all came to Geist. Small disciples world. Yeah, because John and and his wife were members of Geist before they moved out to uh Denver. Colorado, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we met them in North at Northwood.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um when we were there for a few years.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So you said you had three educators in the family growing up. What what was their specialty?
SPEAKER_02So my stepfather was a professor at Hanover College. So I grew up on Hanover College campus. We actually lived on campus for half of my childhood and then we moved right off. But I it was still kind of our playground where we would drive ride our bikes and it's a beautiful campus.
SPEAKER_01It is. I almost went there. I mean, it was one of the schools I looked at back in the day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02My parents are right there by the entrance.
SPEAKER_01It was the first place I'd ever seen frisbee golf because they have a frisbee golf course. Oh, that's right. They do. Yeah, but it was different elements of the campus that you would use as your your goal. Um, and and I just remember walking to campus and all of a sudden you'd see these frisbees go by, and I was like, what is going on?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's also kind of that old school like college setting, right? Small town college setting. You kind of think when you think of prestigious institutions, it looks like that. And it's over on it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there's a bluff, right? You can see the water. I mean, it is quite lovely.
SPEAKER_02It is. It's a beautiful campus, Georgian kind of neoclassical architecture. Yeah, it overlooks the Ohio River and it's wooded and and beautiful. Yeah, lots of natural beauty.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So what did what were interrupted? What what were their specialties?
SPEAKER_02Uh sure. And then my stepmother was a she's an elementary principal, still is.
SPEAKER_01Awesome.
SPEAKER_02And then my mom was a music teacher in high school. Uh, so she actually had my husband as a student in high school. Yes.
SPEAKER_00What was he like as a student?
SPEAKER_02Younger.
SPEAKER_00Younger. Just a younger version of himself now. Yeah. Less of a beard.
SPEAKER_02That's good. Yeah, no beard then.
SPEAKER_00Oh, no beard. Okay. He grows a great beard.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm super jealous every time I say it is a gift that he has.
SPEAKER_00It's just so anyway, that's probably we'll we'll leave that there. My beard constantly looks like I haven't shaved for 10 days, no matter what I do to it. So did he grow up in the same town? How did that connection happen?
SPEAKER_02He did. Okay. It was very unusual. My mother was the one that introduced us. I had I bought a house in Broaderple and I needed a contractor. And she knew Michael from high school, and he had just graduated college, Ball State. He went to Ball State as well. He's younger, so we we didn't cross paths until um until he became my contractor on my first house. That is so fast.
SPEAKER_00So when you all got married, your mother could not complain about who you were marrying. Correct. Correct.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's so cool. Yeah. I had no clue. So what was what was the first job that you needed done at the house in Broad Ripple? Do you remember?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had a gas stove and my parents did not know how to install a gas stove. They were terrified. And so they wanted a professional.
SPEAKER_00To be fair, if you don't know what you're doing around natural gas, you gotta call it professional. That's not a bad thing to be afraid of. You don't want to overestimate your gifts with natural gas. So where'd you all get married?
SPEAKER_02We got married at Trinity United Methodist Church in Madison. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So Megan, education obviously runs in your family. Yes. Um undergrad, masters, you're currently doing a PhD, correct? Correct. Correct. Uh tell us a little bit about that work and your focus area and um all of that good stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So a couple years ago, I I decided to attend an informational session about a PhD at the University of Cincinnati in architecture. And they said, you know, if you apply, you'll probably get in. And I said, okay. And uh they gave me an awesome deal and it's pretty much a full ride. So that's awesome. It is it is amazing. I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better opportunity. But there were things that I had started researching with students and with life that I thought needed to have more exploration uh with my topics, so in social justice in American cities.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So one of the things I know about you is, and you mentioned to everyone that you all lived in Charlottesville, Virginia, which is a beautiful town. Talk about architecture and history. I mean, it it is its stamp is everywhere in that city. It's it is beautiful. Uh, but you all were living there during uh kind of the at the riots. Um what was that experience like for you all?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thanks. That that actually probably was the instigator of my focus of my studies for my PhD, for better or for worse, I guess. Um I worked on the downtown mall for six years in a firm on 4th Street, which is now nicknamed Heather Higher Way. And so every day I walked up Fourth Street to the office. And if you don't know Charlottesville, there's an amazing pedestrian mall by Lawrence Halpron, built in the 1970s, and it was probably one of the more successful pedestrian malls that seemed to be a trend in the 60s and 70s, and uh Hal Halpern made that happen in Charlottesville. But I walked up that street every day. Then uh I had the pleasure of of witnessing a couple really interesting things at that office. One day, I think it was in 2012, Obama's motorcade came right by our windows and stopped at that crossing on the downtown mall and got out and we got to see Obama from the windows. And then in 2017, I had moved on. I actually had started my own firm at that point in time, but I was on Court Square. Our office was on Court Square, where one of the other Confederate statues was. And the protests happened over the removal of Confederate statues in Charlottesville. There were there was a firestorm of all kinds of things that were happening at the time. People just started coming out of the woodwork and the town was not ready for it. And counter-protesters and protesters collided, white nationalists versus people that didn't want white nationalists there. And when the white nationalist drove his car through the crowd, that was down Fourth Street, the street that I walked every day. So that woman that died in that crash on um in August of 2017 was like just a minute from where I walked every day for six years. Wow. And so that really just kind of hit home. Uh there was a lot, and plus seeing um guns in the streets and Confederate flags and uh people just all kinds of hate descend on Charlottesville was unworldly. I mean, it was something else and um completely shook shook me to my core, really.
SPEAKER_01What was it like for you know, uh for Danny and I, I remember watching it on television unfold and and sometimes TV doesn't give us the full breadth and depth of what's going on. But for someone who is literally living in the community that is being broadcasted, um what were some similarities or differences that you saw between the message going out and what you were experiencing within the community at there at Charlottesville?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um there were I think the images that the national news was showing were probably not as traumatic. I mean, they were traumatic, but they weren't as traumatic unless you really could see like if you knew the places that it was happening. Sure. And I think it was also really terrifying because there were so many people that we knew that were involved in the things that were happening, the boots on the ground. It turns out, I didn't learn this until recently, a year or so ago, that there was training happening with community leaders for this to happen. It wasn't the police, it was other people that were training for this event to happen. And so we knew a lot of those people that were on the front lines that were trying to combat hate with compassion and with trying to calm people down and to quell the fears.
SPEAKER_00So I think that's one of the shortcomings of coverage is that it over it tends to oversensationalize while also under it just can't capture the trauma, I think, that people experience, that communities experience during events like that. So you talked about the removal of Confederate statues, and that that makes me think, Megan, and I think I'll write asked this question in the right way. But so where where does uh where does architecture and social justice intersect very broadly?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. We as educators, I also teach at Ball State. We're we're trying uh there's a whole social justice kind of movement that's been happening for a while in architecture. Sure. Uh there's so much history that's not covered or that is not talked about in I think our history classes. As kids, as even as college students, I think there's a lot of things that have been glossed over. And so we try as educators, especially even architectural educators, to try to think about the butt built environment and talk about the histories that have happened and what can be done to kind of rectify that or to help heal that.
SPEAKER_01So one of the things you have spent time studying and understanding some of these monuments that have been built. Most of them are Confederate monuments that have been built. You know, I hear folks say, well, it's history. We shouldn't tear down our history. But there's more to that than just saying we're tearing down our history. Because you informed me and and I've learned that most of these monuments were not built in a more accurately historic time of the Civil War. They were done much later. Could you talk a little bit more about those findings and and your understanding of that?
SPEAKER_02Sure, yeah. Uh that's I get that uh reaction from people a lot is that they don't know that they weren't products of the Confederacy or can of that time period of the Civil War. They were actually symbols that were designed and put up later as symbols of intimidation and to let people know who was welcome in those spaces and who was not. And so it was a way of intimidation, it was a way of power. And those a lot of those uh statues that we're talking about in Charlottesville were built in like the 1920s or so. Um some that I've researched are in the 1940s and into the 190s, which is really Jim Crow starting to get into civil rights movements, that kind of thing. And so it's definitely a symbol of something else besides the Confederacy.
SPEAKER_00I think that's an interesting perspective because so many people will think maybe this statue was put here in 1880, but yeah, it's more I I grew up in the Shadow of Stone Mountain, which has a carving of Confederate soldiers on it, a rather large carving. And so we spent a lot of time at the park. And growing up, you you see the architecture, you re hear the story about how that was carved into a mountain. And then as you get a little bit older and you do a little research, you start to understand and you start to learn, well, the the you know, it was done much later than it kind of uh what Megan was mentioning, and then was actually funded by the Ku Klux Klan as a permanent reminder of who is is quote really in charge in this area. Um and so there there was no better way to display that into the side of a huge mountain. And so you I've wrestled, I mean, I I've really as a young adult, I once I started learning and and wrestling with that, and what does that mean? What I want to ask is how might once people kind of learn the architectural history uh and timeline behind some of these statues, how do you think it it it might change the way we approach it? Because um I think in some ways what we're doing is you know, people say, as Kyle mentioned, well, we we we should honor our history, but really there was nothing honorable in my opinion about those statues going up to begin with. So um how does that how does that maybe change people's perception, you think?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, great question. I think they I think a lot of people struggle with how to interpret those and I you know, and what comes next. And I think once they're removed, there are questions about what remains, you know, the the pedestal that's there, what it's used for. A lot of times it's left. There's questions about, you know, do we turn this into like in Charlottesville, they are working with swords to plowshares, swords into plowshares, which they're thinking about melting down the Robert E. Lee statue and then doing something different, creating a new art piece that's more inclusive and socially just and and welcoming to everyone. Then there are other movements like the story of us that have happened in Charlottesville too, where there's like photographs of people that were involved during the August uh 11th and 12th days and who were real leaders in the community during that time period. And so I think these artworks that people are coming up with that are uh kind of new symbols of what new we can do with the community, what we can help the community recover, we can we can try to help with some of this trauma that's happened is something that that's really good that's coming out of this. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, the idea of of kind of reshaping our understanding of history. I mean many of these, you know, we talked about it's they they help shape, although maybe a distortion of of accuracy in in how they shape. And so kind of reshaping those uh understandings of of what we see and and how we act. Uh Mark Yacinelli talks about how stories can reclaim after tragedy or trauma, especially in communities that have experienced it, is is instead of being known for that traumatic experience, how do you see the full breadth and depth of that community? And so after a s a shooting in a in a college, they came in and and began to tell stories of folks that responded um and how they responded to show both sides of that horrific event. I think it's fascinating how art and and pieces of art can do the same thing. It's this kind of reclaiming and using those stories on the 11th and 12th as a way of doing that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Trying to to find new ways of of helping people with art and architecture.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna ask, I mean, we we live in a very polarized world right now. We we tend to sort of you know dig our heels and uh to our own opinions and and political parties and all that. And so how does that affect what is what is the future of public art? Um, because I think it's important. A lot of communities are notice. She just she she just raised her eyes at me. But it's a big question. So what are some examples? Like how do public art projects um how can they promote inclusivity, um, historical accuracy, and how can it be something that diverse how can a piece of public art be something that diverse communities are are proud of and want to associate with?
SPEAKER_02That's a really good question, too. So I think I have no more good questions.
SPEAKER_00That's it. That's the only good question. You've had a few. That was a good two. That's it. That's it. No more good questions.
SPEAKER_02One of the the pieces of artwork that I always point students to is the crown fountain outside of the Art Institute of Chicago in Millennium Park. I don't know if you know that one.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So one of the things that the creators were trying to do was use people in the community of Chicago at those images of the people that shoot the water out of their mouths. Those are actually people that are in the community that they've used for that artwork.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I don't know if I knew that. I did not know that. That's really neat then.
SPEAKER_02So things like that where people can really be involved and actually see themselves. It's one of the reasons I love the bean, actually, right next door to that, is because we see ourselves in that artwork and we see the context, we see the skyline, we're immersed. It's something that we we can see ourselves in. And I think that is a really, really great art piece as well as is the Cloud Gate, which is well known more well known as the Bean in Chicago. But I think there's other types of art that people are trying to do. The Mellon Foundation is trying to work through all these statues, the Confederacy statues, other statues. You know, there's other things like Christopher Columbus statues that are being taken down, and they're trying to come up with better ways of telling what really happened in history and either putting those back or just telling the story next to some of those monuments.
SPEAKER_01So one of the things that I and I I may please help me correct if I if I say the name wrong, but it was the uh the Jackson monument, and I believe it is in Baltimore, right? It's uh outside of John Hopkins, it's it's very close. But another artist came and had a counter art piece there as well. And I believe that was also removed. And I cannot remember the name of the individual who who did that art piece. That's a good question. Is is it well, I just think it's a No, it is a good. I just wanted to affirm that. And I don't know which one was removed first or how, but it's this both and that you see within this experience of of public art.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So that piece that you're talking about was a double equestrian statue of Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee. And it was put up almost in the 19 that was the one I was talking about in the 40s, 50s that was put up in Baltimore. And Baltimore's always had, you know, a history of racial tension, and there there's been a lot of long history of that. That was put up in a Olmstead Brothers Park, who was a fame was a famous architect, a landscape architect, and his sons kind of took over from that. But that statue was removed in 2020. And before it was removed, and then after it was removed, there was an artist that put up a statue of an African American. woman who was pregnant and it was called Madre Lutz. And it was a it was not designed to be a permanent statue. It was designed to be something that was more temporary because it was made like chicken wire as the base and like kind of a plaster mold. It was not really made of strong, long-lasting materials.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, to withstand the elements.
SPEAKER_02Right. But his his take was I should put this here as kind of a symbol of what this could be or another counterpoint to um the hate that the other statue kind of symbolized. And so it got toppled twice. It people came and vandalized the Madre Lettes and pushed that down several times, which was unfortunate. So now if you go visit that statue location, which is across from the art museum in Baltimore, it's just a pedestal. It's and it's been graffitied, it has like plants there. It's kind of an abandoned area actually.
SPEAKER_01And I wonder w how we interpret that. I mean to me I think there is what is what does that say as public art as well? Because I think graffiti sometimes can get lost or minimized in the power that it has and and my guess is there's all types of graffiti and and verbiage but just that empty pedestal graffiti grass growing where steel and concrete used to be used to be. I mean that in itself is a piece of public art that probably tells a story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's a it's a history of what it used to be and maybe what it could be in the future. It's a history of a place where community can come and have free speech and not be judged or overpowered by that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Megan in in your paper one of the things that I uh gravitated toward that I'd never heard is lost cause ideology.
SPEAKER_02Could you tell us a little bit what what is that yeah so there were uh some movements after the Civil War where the South was trying to hold on as tightly as they could to what they had before the Civil War. And they were coming up with ways of intimidation. They were coming up with ways of kind of falsifying history or idolizing generals like Lee and others as very large heroes and trying to come up with ways of of showing that in a more glorifying kind of way, I guess. Does that make sense? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Now the students you work with have do they I mean the question is what do you do with some of these statues? And I know that Sword into Plowshare is melting and recreating. What do your students say in your classrooms that you hear of ideas of what should be or could be with these pieces of public art is there a place for them where should they be what do you hear from your students when they come to talk about this in a space that for many of them they're exploring and questioning and trying to figure out how to move forward yeah I think it's the same mix that the public gives I mean some people think they belong in a museum some people think they belong um melted down and created into something else and some people think they need to be reinvented or have something else put next to it to reinterpret them.
SPEAKER_02I had the pleasure a couple years ago of doing a studio where we designed a a memorial and a museum for peace and justice in Charlottesville. I actually we used that end of the mall where Heather Heyer had gotten killed um and I had the students actually design a building and a memorial there and it was amazing. It was an amazing experience.
SPEAKER_01So and healing I mean healing not only for those that will come to it but my guess is the folks that help participate in creating it.
SPEAKER_00I mean correct wow Megan as we're talking about public art what are for people who are listening what are some of your favorite pieces or of public art here in Indianapolis the greater Indianapolis area or a um significant piece or two that you would like to highlight um I the hardest question we'll ask all day.
SPEAKER_02That was a good question wasn't it is a good question. I'm on a roll today this is good thank you I actually this might be surprising but the Soldiers and Sailors monument in downtown Indianapolis is probably one of my favorite pieces in the whole city. And I think it's a there's a couple things that are hidden on that monument that people probably don't pick up on. One side is war there's a sculpture of war and the other side is peace and the war side actually has um a Confederate flag that's being trampled on by one of the soldiers. Now you have to look carefully for it but it's there and then Lady Victory is at the top and she was sculpted to look to the south to make sure that the Civil War or things like that never happened again. She's kind of making sure that just we're held accountable.
SPEAKER_00So there's there's all kinds of like hidden meanings in that monument that are that are I did not know either of those that's really I also want to walk downtown with you and have you point out I was just thinking I need a guide yeah that is so cool.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I I had no clue all the symbolism of that wow so one of the things that you have talked about um throughout our our podcast today is is social justice justice community welcoming kind of want to circle back and how your faith has helped shape that in in not only your calling as being an architect but designs and understanding of the ways in which we interact as public with art. How has your faith kind of shaped that?
SPEAKER_02I think part of my faith is how my parents raised me to be a good human being and to always instill values about kindness and caring and being able to hear other voices besides our own I think that's what's probably driven me the most throughout my throughout my career. But I think I've always been interested in you know what's right and how we become better humans. And I think our world needs that more than anything right now. I mean I think even since twenty seventeen I think there's just been so many things that happen every day that we just need to approach each day with um kindness in our hearts.
SPEAKER_01So I think it's great. I it's a solid response I mean it's that's a good answer.
SPEAKER_00That's no that is very good. That is very good okay so Megan we uh at the end of every uh time together we like to ask uh we like to play a little game called would you rather and ask our guest a question and so you're gonna have two choices so we're gonna ask you this now and you have to tell us which one you choose and why and so here is your question would you rather be chronically underdressed or overdressed and why I would say overdressed.
SPEAKER_02I think you can easily you know take off a blazer or something and still feel you know you're casual enough to be there. My mom was an impeccable dresser like she just she always looked great and I think that's where I learned how to have fashion and my fashion sense came from her. So I think yeah overdressed.
SPEAKER_00I tend to agree with you. I I'm more comfortable in a setting if I'm overdressed as compared to everyone else versus being underdressed as compared to everyone else.
SPEAKER_01As my yeah my parents always said it's better to be overdressed than underdressed. So I I would totally agree with that. Yeah right right so uh Megan what the other the other thing that we like to ask folks uh is there anything you are reading or listening to or have watched lately that maybe our audience uh should check out yeah and it doesn't have to be highbrow well a lot of the reading I'm I'm doing these days is a little bit um more academic but I'm I'm reading some interesting things about walking in the city um by Deserteaux and there are a couple of philosophers that have written about their journeys as they walk through the city and just how to be more influenced by what we see and how we feel and how the sidewalk and our everyday lives kind of shape us.
SPEAKER_02So that those have been the things that I've kind of been interested in in lately is how we remember our journeys through cities. And that will probably come into my PhD work somewhere.
SPEAKER_01So I've read a book once where a guy walked the same path with like 10 different experts and how each expert experienced that walk differently and helped him see things differently in each one of those walks. Same walk it was just a different perspective of each one that that enlightened him in his understanding of the walk which I thought was absolutely fascinating.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's great.
SPEAKER_01So if you had any city to walk through what would it be?
SPEAKER_02Uh I would probably pick London and Paris.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Only because I've been there I've been to both but I love them both and I I think I was there in my twenties and I was there uh I was in London in like 2011 and so it's been a while and I think there are a lot more things I'd put on my list to see. But yeah. Okay. I felt I felt very at home at London. I could probably live there.
SPEAKER_00I love walking around cities. It's one of my favorite when I visit somewhere like I I don't mind vacationing in big cities because I like I just like walking around them.
SPEAKER_01And it's such a gift that we're so I mean to me Chicago is one of my favorites to walk and there's so much variety and diversity and especially when you walk into different communities because you can you can feel walking into another culture or experience as you move in and through that city that I don't think we always get in Indianapolis or some of the other cities that I've been in. But just the architecture alone is I I've never thought of the bean or now the fountain quite the same way. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00I was about to say if I knew now if I knew what I was looking at that would make it even I want to go down to the monument downtown I'm gonna check it out.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. Well Megan thank you so much for sitting down with us today. Thanks for sharing your story but sharing the work that you've been doing uh it has been such an enlightening experience and I know our audience is going to enjoy every minute of it. So thank you so very much. Thank you. This has been another episode of Sacred Sit Downs. We hope you will join us next time as we explore the power of story. We can be found on all major platforms so be sure to subscribe. As always thanks for listening. Until next time this is Sacred Sit Downs