Sacred Sitdowns
Sharing one’s personal story is sometimes hard, but it is holy. Sacred Sitdowns seeks to allow a safe space for faith-filled conversations with members and friends of Geist Christian Church. Hosts Kyle Brown and Danny Gulden hope that all those who hear will be enlightened and inspired. Listen with us. You’ll be glad you did.
Sacred Sitdowns
Core Value - Engagement
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In this episode of Sacred Sitdowns, Danny and Kyle close out season four's core value series with Reverend Sarah Renfro to talk about our core value of community. They explore what it means to be a church of compassion and care, walking with one another through every season of life, and share stories of the elders and mentors who first shaped their own sense of belonging at Geist. Sarah and Danny talk about the tension between wanting community's benefits without its demands, why prayer letters and handwritten notes still carry so much power, and what it looks like to hold onto authentic community in a world of screens and isolation. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation on presence, prayer, and what it means to give the ball away.
Let us tell you a story. A story that will challenge, inspire, and change the way you see the world. We are your host. I'm Danny Goolden. And I'm Kyle Brown, and this is Sacred Sit Downs.
SPEAKER_00A conversational podcast that explores how the Spirit of God moves within this world through the power of story.
SPEAKER_01In today's episode, we will sit down with a member or friend of Geist Christian Church as they share their dynamic, faith-filled story.
SPEAKER_00We hope that you will be enlightened and inspired by the words shared today as we gain deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us. This is Sacred Sit Downs.
SPEAKER_01Welcome everyone to episode four. We are finishing up our four-part core value series here for Geist Christian Church. It's been a chance for us to focus on what we find to be extremely important for the ministry and the life here at Geist Christian Church. And so over the past couple of weeks, we've been looking at inclusion, uh, faithful curiosity, engagement. Uh today we are going to look at community, and by that we mean we seek to be a church of compassion and care, walking with one another through every season of life. We believe community is built through presence and prayer and practical support. Together, we become the body of Christ stronger, kinder, and more faithful than we could ever be alone. And so today, to help us dive deeper into what it means to be a community, we have Reverend Sarah Renfro. Sarah, it's good to have you with us on the podcast again.
SPEAKER_02Good to be with you again.
SPEAKER_00As we're recording this, the baseball playoffs started yesterday. So as we kick off community, I just wanted to share a little bit about a story I shared uh during my sermon on Sunday. And it is the story of a young man about nine years old at a baseball game at Yankee Stadium, and foul ball comes his way, and you know, the kid's got his hat. He's obviously a fan, he's there ready to catch it. It's gonna mean a lot to him. And as he gets ready to catch it, a middle-aged man kind of comes down from a couple rows up and pushes the kid out of the way, catches the ball, takes it back to a seat. So everyone in the stands can see that this ball was intended for this young man, right? He was going to catch it. Uh so the people in the stand start chanting, give the kid the ball, give the kid the ball. And uh the man is kind of unmoved by that. And so if you've been to baseball games, I think one of the beautiful things about baseball games, they move at a pace where you can gather what's going on in the crowd. And so the section over from this section starts chanting, give the kid the ball. Eventually, the whole stadium, for the most part, is chanting, give the kid the ball, even though they don't exactly know what's going on. But the chant is so loud, this reporter said, that players on the field are are looking up in the stance to see what happens. And so this man is completely unmoved. How he was not, I don't know, but he just sat there with his ball in hand. So over the course of the game, a couple more foul balls come into that area. People catch them, and they go over and they give this kid the ball. And uh, you know, people are chanting, he gave the kid the ball, she gave the kid the ball, and so this chant sort of catches on, and then finally at the end, the original man is moved enough, caught the ball, went over and gave the kid the ball, and people started chanting, he finally gave the kid the ball. And so all these chants come up, and so I think it's just a wonderful illustration of the power of community and how it catches on and how it moves us to want to experience something together. Community, it it it's kind of contagious in a good way, where um people want to be a part of something.
SPEAKER_01So, Sarah, uh speaking of community and this contagiousness of it, w when did you kind of experience church as a community?
SPEAKER_02I am really lucky. I grew up in the church and always felt part of it. My dad dedicated me when I was weeks old and held me up high like Simba, and I have been loved by the church ever since. I always knew that I was surrounded by not only my family of origin, my parents, both sets of grandparents and sister in church, but also the elders and pastors and youth group leaders and choir directors. I was surrounded by a community of faith that helped form me as a person and as a Christian.
SPEAKER_01And so we had infant baptism. So it was kind of like a dedication in the sense that uh this new child is here in front of this community of faith. And it was always an introduction to the aunts and uncles uh that will care well for you, that will love you and support you. And I I remember walking around the the congregation uh so that those in the back had a chance to to be up close to remind us of community, but also our responsibility as the as the older folks to care well for the younger folks, knowing that one day they will be in our shoes to offer that same kind of support and care.
SPEAKER_00It's one of my favorite things we do for that very reason. It's just the communal nature of it, it it shows the child, the family, the parents, the village that is going to help them raise their child. And so there is this um covenant of relationship that that we're yours, you're ours. And um, and I think that goes too with, you know, when we talk about joining the church now, um, that can be a bit of a weird phrase because what exactly does that mean? I'll tell people there's there's no, you know, we've already given you your first-time visitor gift, so you've already got the mug or whatever you have, but really it's covenant. It's about being in relationship and and we'll serve together and care for one another. All those are just beautiful moments to me.
SPEAKER_01So do you all have folks that really helped shape um that idea of community?
SPEAKER_02I like here at Geist, pastors class kids have an elder to study alongside, to go through that six-week course or whatever it may be on the way to baptism. And my elder was present with me not only during that time where we could have good theological discussions, although I wouldn't have used that word at the time. We talked about God and Jesus and school and family and all of that. But then she continued to be in my life. And I always looked up to her, Kate Covington as her name. And she actually prayed at the table at my ordination. So she made um an impact in my life that I doubt that many of our elders realize how much of an impact they are making on pastor's class kids, because it's a short time, you visit a couple of times, but as long as you continue to be in relationship, you are seeing church on Sundays and throughout the week, then that relationship forms something deep inside of you.
SPEAKER_00In the same way, we had um our elders were baptism sponsors, and so I still uh remember my elder um who did that for me, a gentleman named uh Greg Peterson, and he was also at my ordination. These are just small examples. I think just the interaction, and there are m less and less places in the world where people of different ages and stages and journeys interact in life, and so I think the church is one of those places who I mean there's all sorts of stats on in church life. If if a teenager is able to have a relationship with an adult outside of um parent, um their chances of of success, church involvement, whatever the the measurements are, are are a lot greater.
SPEAKER_01The the idea of it does take a village, and I I would love to see youth sundays where we highlight the youth and the senior speeches because seniors had a chance to stand up and kind of give their testimony about their faith journey, but they also always highlighted people along the way, folks sitting in the pews as their names were said aloud, they never realized the impact that they had on a kid. I just found that to be such a a powerful reminder of the role that you play in kids' lives.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've seen people almost taken aback at the impact they've had when someone I I too am a fan of Youth Sunday. I think it's a great, it's a great way just to hear about different experiences, but also I've experienced the same thing where youth will say, you know, Kyle, you had a great impact in my life, and Kyle's, you're sitting out in the pew and you're like, I never knew that. I never knew that. And so it's a great format and a way to remind ourselves of just the little things in community go a long way. The scripture we use to teach about this is one of the most beautiful scriptures, Acts 2, verses 42 through 47. This is following uh the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. It is following um the Pentecost event, which is the giving of the Holy Spirit to God's people. And so now we are seeing a group of people try to figure out what it means to live as followers of Jesus Christ. And so we get this beautiful image of community from this text of the things that people are doing with one another. Uh uh it says they're all together, they're breaking bread together, they're praying, they're listening to the apostles' teaching, they're sharing things in common. But one of the things I pointed out that I think would be good for us to explore is there is um this tension I think in community where we often want its benefits, but we resist its demands. So I want the communal, but I don't want to give the time to it, or I don't want to give the energy to it, or you know, I like breaking bread together, but uh when you ask me to to give up some of my money, you know, that sort of oh, I don't know if I like that. And so I think that's the tension I think that this particular text in Acts 2 calls us to is to think about benefits, but also the tension we face in our lives and some of the demands that community makes on us.
SPEAKER_02I do believe that if you want to be part of something, you actually have to engage. It's not going to come to you. Community isn't going to just show up at your door if you aren't present to it, aware and active in the community itself. It is a give and take, but only in the best sense. I know we are new to the marching band community, which requires not just showing up for football games and competitions, but participating in volunteer opportunities and lending a hand wherever there is need, and there is always need. The church is the same way, just showing up, walking in and out on a Sunday morning. You're not going to feel the same community as if you are here early and participating in the hospitality that is provided, that you are part of a team that is welcoming or serving in some way. And throughout the week, we have so many midweek opportunities for that connection, for that community that is important for us to feel that way. I know that that's how I've gotten involved here over the last 10 years.
SPEAKER_01There's definitely an overlap between engagement and community. The more engaged you are, the more you're going to feel as if you're part of the community in which you you are actively involved in. There's a there's a level of participation on the individual that they have to be willing to step out and to step into opportunity so that that community can begin to form. Because it's not always gonna happen on Sunday. Let's let's be honest, Sunday morning is probably not the place where community may be felt on a personal level. There is more of a collective community, but it's in the Bible studies, the trips, the mission experiences, service learning opportunities. It's that kind of smaller group gatherings that allow for people to really get to know one another.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, worship is not designed to help people get to know one another better, right? I mean, there's not a lot of ongoing talking. And so I like to think of it as sort of an investment. I mean, you really do get out of it what you put into it. And so it's sort of like, you know, if you open a money market account, but you never put any money into it, you're probably not gonna have any money in it. So it's kind of the same deal. Typically, I I have found that the people who, if you just take that first step, if you just one more step and just see where that takes you and see where it gets you.
SPEAKER_01You know, you highlighted that it's a group of people coming together. There is this give and take. And it's a reminder, though, that that in many ways we're not perfect people. The church and and the collective is isn't an imperfect group of folks that come together.
SPEAKER_02On Sunday here at Promise Road, Ryan reminded us that the church as a family isn't a family like a Hallmark movie, but it is messy, more like a biblical family, which is actually comforting to hear because I think so many have been turned away from the church or pushed away from the church because of the whole family language that we use, as if it's someplace that is perfect and pretty and everybody looks nice and acts right. Well, we know that's not true. I like to picture church if we use the family language as not just a family of origin, but a chosen family. That we get to choose who we worship with. And in the same way, Ryan mentioned we have to accept everybody. All are welcome to the family of faith. All are welcome to this community. And none of us is perfect. But we show up as we are, welcomed as we are. We take the bread and cup as a community of faith each time we worship and have the opportunity to extend that community throughout the week.
SPEAKER_00So Kyle and I spend most of our time at Guy's Christian Church, just by the nature of our jobs, your ministry gives you the benefit to see lots of different congregations and context and that sort of thing. So, in terms of community, what are some things, what are some common threads that you see that that churches who are doing community well, what are they doing in your experience?
SPEAKER_02Again, I think that any church that is working together as a community to help the community around them doing service and service to others, helping together with intentionality, with a certain focus, really provides that sense of this is who we are, with like their core values, with their mission statement, how they live out who they are, their identity as a church, and provides so many opportunities for that community, which again kind of goes with the engagement piece. But when all feel like they have a part to play, when they are one body of Christ, they don't have to be the whole body of Christ, but they are one member that makes up the body. That is what I see. And every church has their own context and what their focus is and their certain city or state or county, but they are doing it together and they have they have made that a vision and a way to be engaged with community.
SPEAKER_01When it comes to Geist, one of the things that makes us unique is is prayer and and the ways in which we use prayer to care well for folks, not only within our community, but within the greater community each week. It is an opportunity for us to sit and and to pray for those things that have been named aloud. And, you know, the men's prayer group, the women's prayer group, the the elders and as well as the pastoral staff. I mean, there is a lot of power to getting up at uh 5 30 in the morning to to be here for a men's prayer group and to know that every concern that came in that week will be on that list, and that someone around that table is going to pray for that individual as well as write them a letter to let them know uh that we had prayed for them and and lifted them up in prayer.
SPEAKER_00And there's something valuable to getting a a letter, a card in the mail from prayer groups, pastors, other groups in the church. Because these days in the mail, right, you get you get kind of bills and junk mails. So I think I'm I'm always reminded when people come and say, Well, thank you for the note. Those those handwritten notes have a lot of power. And I think it it's unique, and I think it helps people reminded that they've been prayed for and cared for and um all those good things.
SPEAKER_01I know that you and Ryan, every Lint, on behalf of the church, we send out a request for any anything going on in your life that we can pray. And you sit down and write a letter to each church member as a way of offering up a prayer.
SPEAKER_00We do in praise. So during Lent, people turn in prayer requests. Everyone has a day. We pray for them on that day, and then they get a note from us, and and many of you turn in requests, some don't, and some we we have a sense of what's going on in your life, so we try to lift that up in prayer. And for me, I mean, hopefully it does something well for the people who receive, but for me, it is one of the best things I do all year. It's actually one of my favorite things selfishly, because I feel connected to God in a particular way, but I also feel connected to the people in the congregation, to you all, um, in ways in which I otherwise would not be connected. And so it goes from, you know, in the beginning of the year thinking, oh my gosh, we got to do this again, too. I miss it when my time is done. So it it has it has transformed my prayer life. So hopefully it's been good for those on the receiving end of the prayers, but it is it's been transformational for me.
SPEAKER_02And I've had the privilege of being on the praying side of attending women's prayer breakfast and being part of an elder, but I also know it from the side of receiving letters. My dad especially has been lifted up and named and is prayed for and has received the letters as my mom has, and they keep each letter, as I know you know folks who have a stack of letters that they can refer to and just know that that is a community holding them in prayer. And so, like for my dad, when when he gets to visit Geist Christian Church, he is part of this family. He can come in here and feel like home because he has been prayed for, and that is a gift.
SPEAKER_00I I've seen when your dad when your dad comes to church, he comes in and and moves around and chats with uh you would never know that he's you know here in person, like maybe two or three times a year. You would think he's here every Sunday.
SPEAKER_02And that's part of just who my dad is. Yes, yes. But that is also a testimony to how Geist is.
SPEAKER_01So here's the rub that we have in our current context, right? We have technology that allows us to be connected to people around the world at any given time. And yet there is this deep longing for community. How do we combat that? How do how do we help people see or move beyond where they are to what could be?
SPEAKER_00I think um we have to get back to seeing technology as a tool, not the end goal. And kind of what I mean by that is I think it is obviously since we've started online worship, it has allowed us to expand our reach and it has allowed a really incredible number of people to be a part of the Geist community who've either moved away, physically can't get to church, simply live somewhere else and found us. And so I think that is a beautiful tool. And yet, I still think we need to think about how we create community with those of you who are worshiping online just past the Sunday morning experience. And so what we know is that technology is making us more isolated. Um, and also what we know part of what the church is supposed to be doing is to bring us together and to help us understand one another. And so I think it's seeing technology as a tool, but not as the solution, perhaps.
SPEAKER_02We are using technology right now to produce a podcast. Sure, yeah, that is creating a community. There are people who will listen and have something to talk about with each other, not only here in Guy's land, but around the country and anyone who has access to a podcast. I think it's incredible that we can use this technology for this purpose. But it is just one piece of the puzzle. If we listen to a podcast just once a week or watch a sermon just once a week online, then we are not fully engaging, not fully being part of God's community, being active with our family of faith.
SPEAKER_01So part of that is embracing the technology to listen to a podcast, to listen to a sermon, but the part that takes it a step further is having someone to converse with about the podcast that you listen together or the sermon that you heard together, is that this was my perspective. Oh, you heard that. Well, this is what I heard. Bringing your personal experiences and stories from the lens in which you see it based on the same sermon you heard. You probably left with a different take on that. Something hit you differently.
SPEAKER_00My favorite thing is after worship when someone comes up and says, To me when I preached, I heard something, I heard, you know, they'll say, I heard this in your sermon, or even better, I heard this in this text and you didn't really touch on it. And to me, that's literally one of my favorite things, because A, it means people are curious. Um, but also it gives me new perspective too. And so I love that. I also do, I want to, Sarah, I love that you used the term Geisland. It made me think of a big amusement park here on our property, like the communion coaster. I can't wait to ride that. That's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_01Well, but you think of community and you highlight a roller coaster, our daughter being in the band, they're going to Orlando for fall break. Talk about a place that makes people feel welcomed and a there is a community when you walk on to a an amusement park, whether it's Kings Island, but I mean Disney does it really, really well. Is is when you walk in, you feel like you don't know anyone other than probably your family, and yet there's this sense of communal experience that one's having there at the park that I think churches could learn from when it comes to that Disney experience.
SPEAKER_00There is more to Disney than just the money you spend. That's why it's different to me than going to different amusement parks, is when you go to Disney, you feel a part of The family. You feel a part of the community. I mean, even down to what they call their employees cast members. And so they are creating an experience of community that goes beyond I'm just going here to ride this particular roller coaster. There's a sense of wonder.
SPEAKER_01And that's part of community. And so as a church, what wonder do we have to offer as we move into this new season in the life of Geist Christian?
SPEAKER_02We are recording this after the Saturday from the women's retreat. And that was a place with a sense of wonder, and the Holy Spirit was absolutely present. And it was a hundred and forty women who gathered in one place at one particular time. So, like scripture, it's taken in context. It can never be repeated. But yet the relationships that were the relationships that were developed, the words that were heard and shared and written have created bonds, bonds that did not exist prior to Saturday. There are so many opportunities here at Geist. Yes, we know the folks probably that are listening to this podcast who show up every day of the week in some form or fashion. There's an opportunity every day to increase that community, to be part of some group where you can form fuller relationships with somebody you met one time at a retreat or one time in worship, but you can have those conversations and increase your faith by doing so.
SPEAKER_01And it was all because a group of women got together and said, we really think this would be good for our community, not just for Guys Christian Church, but for the community of Fishers and in Indianapolis. And I mean, every year it's grown and every year it's gotten, if you could say it, it's gotten better and better. I I don't know. It's just it's amazing to walk in and to see the amount of work and effort that's put into it. Uh, but also on Sunday, all the positive feedback and feelings of that experience just permeated any and all conversations I had with folks who attended. It was just such a wonderful, well done, beautiful experience.
SPEAKER_02And it couldn't have been done by one person. It couldn't have been done in a silo or uh it it took 41 women coming together to have some hand in it. And it was beautiful. And for some life-changing I know I had the privilege of being one of the keynoters and to be just a little bit part of that. But the spirit was working and we were a community gathered at one time in a circle holding hands, sharing a word. That was a gift.
SPEAKER_01You know, another thing you mentioned it on Sunday is the idea of the world is starving for authentic community. And I think that's one thing as a church that we can offer is that we need to be our authentic selves when we gather as a group or as a church. Is we're not trying to be something we're not. We are who we are, and we're gonna do that to the best of our ability. Even back, Disney isn't anything other than what Disney offers. They're authentically themselves. The church needs to lean into what that is. And I think over the past couple of weeks, we've tried to define what makes us us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I think it helps because, you know, if you look at organizational consultants, I mean, most of them will tell you that any organization can only do three or four things really well, like big picture things. And so that's where we started with these core values as what what do what do we think is important? What are we called to do well? What is God calling us to do well? And there is a tendency, especially in church, to look at another church community and say, well, they seem to be doing that really well. Maybe we should be doing that. That's not who we are. And so we celebrate them doing it well, and then we focus on what we do well. And so I think these have been important. And I do think authenticity. I think so many people have had bad church experiences or might have a negative image of church, and think of a church as a place they have to pretend to be someone they're not, or wear something they're not comfortable wearing. And so I love that we can create a space where people can just be who God has made them to be or explore who God has made them to be, and for us to say we don't have it all figured out, but I think we get closer to getting the glimpse when we do it together.
SPEAKER_01So I think the challenge for us is how do we give the ball away? I think there's many ways that we may phrase that is church is a place where we are inspired and we're empowered to leave. The church I served before coming to Geist head, enter to pray, leave to serve. This idea of being in community, but going forth and creating community.
SPEAKER_00I'm a big believer that I think it happens one person, one opportunity at a time. So we'll, you know, we'll send people on their way and say, look for the chance to give the ball away. And so really what that means is showing presence, prayer, practical support to one other person this week. And then the ripple effect, and maybe that's another person the next week or two people the next week. Um but just start where you are, start small. And you know, even if it's someone in the church you've been wanting to get to know better, and uh sometimes you think I got to get to know all these people, just pick someone you want to get to know better, or maybe learn a little bit more about their story and start there.
SPEAKER_02I love how you, Kyle, invited church attendees to switch up where they sit on Sunday morning. Folks who were there have mentioned that as a powerful experiment, but also that has shaped their worship lives. We as elders are invited to sit somewhere else on Sunday mornings. Each Sunday morning, we switch it up because we know there are folks who have a pattern and they always sit in their seat. But when we have the opportunity and when we take the opportunity to sit elsewhere, to move around, be part of the worshiping space in a different way. We get to know other folks that are in the same space, in the same community, but in a different way. When I hear a member or a visitor sing beside behind me, and it just lights me up. It just really feels feels like worship when I hear another's voice. I think that's an opportunity that we can take on our own. And we don't need permission to form community, to reach out, to form relationships. We can do that on our own because we have been inspired and empowered through our worship experiences, but also by the nature of Geist Christian Church, we are all empowered to do ministry in our own way. We are all called to be the hands and feet, the body of Christ, whether that is making a phone call, text, bringing a casserole, doing things behind the scenes that make a difference and create the community that we've been seeking.
SPEAKER_00Well, hope you've enjoyed this. Sarah, thank you for being our guest today and spending time with us today. Kyle, thank you for putting this all together. We hope everyone has enjoyed this four-part series to kick off season four on our core values and just something uh we're gonna be living more into these. And so, as we've said in worship, we hope none of these are new to you or surprise you, but that you have experienced them as a part of Geist Christian Church, and we uh hope to live deeper into that. So we'll be back very soon with some new episodes of Sacred Sit Downs as well. We've got some great folks we're talking with this season, so we will uh see you next time. Thanks.
SPEAKER_01This has been another episode of Sacred Sit Downs. We hope you will join us next time as we explore the power of story. We can be found on all major platforms, so be sure to subscribe. As always, thanks for listening. Until next time, this is Sacred Sit Downs.