Episode 1: Friendships & How They Evolve

It’s been a long time coming…literally! Craig “The Writer” Stewart and Danielle M. Brown have finally made it to the mic. In the premiere episode of Too Much 2 Text, they take you back to where it all began at Hampton University, reflect on the journey that shaped their lifelong friendship, and unpack the love, beauty, compassion, hurt, and occasional heartbreak that come with life—and with friendship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Craig's do it. I'm so happy that we're finally here doing this podcast. It's ironically in my phone, in my notes where I went for um Too Much to Say podcast. April 29th, 2004.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

That was before we called it Too Much to Text.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

Yes, Too Much to Text, exactly. Well, no. You said too much to say. I meant to say too much to text.

SPEAKER_05 0:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

I have here April 29th, 2024, artwork finalized and specs for all platforms. Spotify, YouTube, Apple, SoundCloud. Where would we be distributing it? A taping schedule. Podcast episodes we're going to drop on Tuesdays. 30-minute episodes, 10 episodes a season. What does success look like?

SPEAKER_05 1:13

We did say Tuesdays because somebody said that Tuesdays is a good day and we researched it or something. And they said something about Tuesdays was a good day to because we looked at it versus what other podcasts dropped on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, Thursdays, you know like that. And then we said Weren't it like Tuesdays at 10 or something? It was something with the T's. It was something with T's.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

I mean, Tuesdays at 10 sounds fine. People would be waiting for it and 10 in the app in the morning.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

I think it was 10 in the morning.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Okay. Um, but we were securing music. We were gonna ask some of our friends if they wanted to provide music for us. And then May 31st, we were going, the music should have been secured by then. June 30th, August 31st, pre-season teasers and meetup. September 3rd, official launch date.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

And this is all in 2024.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

This is in 2024. But what's ironic is today is May 25th.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

No, April 25th. April 25th, yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

And it's almost it's only two years later, but that's okay. We made it. We made it. Here we are. Um I'm excited.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

Me too.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Yeah, I'm really excited. I'm really excited about this. I um you know, I always talk about the fact that you are my there's no other friend like you, friend.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

Mm-hmm. You've been saying that since wait, maybe at right after Hampton, maybe? I don't think you ever said it at Hampton.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

No, no, no. I definitely didn't say that at Hampton. I I really think that that came about. Was that before or after that whole remember we got into that thing?

SPEAKER_06 3:01

And we're it was after that.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Because I was like, Yeah, we don't do that.

SPEAKER_06 3:06

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

That communication was like, we had into the little friends.

SPEAKER_05 3:09

We had bumped heads.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:10

Yeah. With um That was the beginning of social media.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Was that?

SPEAKER_05 3:16

No, it was the beginning of me getting on social media.

SPEAKER_04 3:18

Do you remember? No, I'm talking about when you were told that it was so terrible that you couldn't stay at my house and oh that.

SPEAKER_06 3:30

Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Yeah. But what was it? What were you talking about?

SPEAKER_05 3:34

I was talking about the thing where I don't remember what, I don't remember what the scenario was, but I remember I had talked about it on my Facebook, and I was like a friend of mine got upset with me because of such and such. Sure. I don't remember what that was. I don't remember what that was about though.

SPEAKER_04 3:50

Oh, I do, but we won't be talking about we won't be talking about that here. Okay. Well you'll have to tell me. Yeah, that's one of this, that's this, this is one of those moments where we learn too much to text and too much to say. Some things you just some things are just not for the camera.

SPEAKER_06 4:08

Right, right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Um but anyway, um thinking back to too much to text and bringing us here today and this podcast when we first uh talked about what the podcast was going to be, and as time evolved, the other day we were on the phone, and per usual, whenever I call Craig or Craig calls me, we go, Hello. Hello?

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Hi, hello, hello, hello, hi, hi, hello.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Is is this Craig?

SPEAKER_05 4:41

This is Craig. Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

Hi, it's Danielle. How are you?

SPEAKER_05 4:44

Oh, hi. Hello. Hi.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Hi, hello. Who's speaking? Craig.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Hi, hey.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Hi. How's it going? I'm awesome. Who is this?

SPEAKER_04 4:56

This is so it's so crazy because we have never done this face to face. This is what we always do on the phone and we are cutting up because we're like, hello?

SPEAKER_06 5:04

Hello.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

Hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

We done gone through 60 different octaves.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

Right. And tones.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Exactly. Um, too much to text. I'm s I love that we're here doing this podcast. I had a note in my phone that said it was May, April 24th, 2024.

SPEAKER_05 5:24

So two years ago.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

April 29th, 2024, that we had started toying with the idea of having a podcast. And um I think that you and I have a love of words, um, emotion.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Um and this concept and idea of love and the ideal kind of relationship that we want, and the ebbs and flows of love and relationships. I think we connect and talk about that a lot.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Yeah. We don't mind dissecting the living and taking a minute to talk about what life involves and the emotions that go along with it.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

But I think also it's like we're now like almost 50.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Ciao.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

And like we met when we were like 21.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

We weren't even 21 yet. Because I met I met you my junior year. It was the end of junior year. It was the end of junior year at Hampton. I turned at Hampton University. I turned 21 my senior year. In October. Of my senior year. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

And see, I turned 21 our junior year.

SPEAKER_04 6:44

Yeah, because you're a little older than me.

SPEAKER_05 6:46

Right. And then by the time we graduated.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Oh. You turned 21 your junior year?

SPEAKER_05 6:50

I graduated at 22.

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Oh, I was still 21 when I graduated. Yeah. Oh, but that makes sense because I'm in, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:57

Right. My birthday is May. And so by the time we graduated, I had just turned 22.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

Um, and we met at the end of junior year. And I just think that wait a minute. Every conversation begins and ends with the hourglass. Once the sand is gone, the conversation ends.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

We're on the clock.

SPEAKER_05 7:15

Yes, we're on the clock. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Um, I think that's so not to bore you, because we could talk all day long.

SPEAKER_05 7:20

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

And we don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

But I think that what happens is we had this idea, at least I had this idea at Hampton, like what my friendships would look like beyond Hampton. And I always knew that I would be in touch with friends from school, but the people that I was closest to, I'm not in touch with. Not that anything has happened, but I'm just not in touch with them anymore. You know, there may be life events that happen and that cause us to be in touch again. I'll reach out and they may reach out. But we're not in touch like we were. And I know when we went undergrad, we used to say, like, well, we're always going to be in touch. And I remember saying to one of my friends in particular, listen, we need to start being so, we need to still be in sync that if you have a dentist appointment, if you have a cavity, I need to know about that cavity. But but those friendships have changed. And like, and it's now you and other people that I'm still in touch with. And again, we were close in Hampton, but we met at the end of junior year, and then we had senior year. So while we had those moments at Hampton, we didn't get to build to this point because we were seniors. You know what I'm saying? I had thesis and you had everything that you had going on over there in the business department. So it was just different. Yeah. But I think it takes 30 years, because it's about 29 years of friendship, to build this. It doesn't just happen in undergrad. You know what I mean? I think those are the seeds that get planted.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

It doesn't happen in undergrad, but I knew because what did I tell you when I met you? When I met you, I knew that I was going to like you and that we would be friends.

SPEAKER_05 8:59

And you and you said, and I don't usually like people right away.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

I don't like I don't normally like people right away.

SPEAKER_05 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

But back then at least I didn't.

SPEAKER_05 9:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

And I I liked you immediately.

SPEAKER_05 9:09

And I knew that we were-cause I'm really likable.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Give me a break. Um, but I didn't know that we were going to be friends for a long time. Yeah. Um, and I am happy that I spoke that in two weeks.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

But ironically, I thought we were gonna be friends before we knew each other. Because I remember you from freshman year.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

And we had an African-American history class together. I sat in the back of the class, I was very quiet, very shy, and you sat in the front of the class, and she's coming from New York, outspoken, loud. Well, not loud, but just outspoken. It wasn't loud, but it was outspoken. And there's a difference. Yeah, there is a difference. And um, so that was freshman year, and we didn't meet until, and I used to see you in the yard, but we didn't meet until junior year. And that was when you said, Yeah, I who are you?

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Because you were running your mouth about something at a friend's house, and I was like, This guy got something to say.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

Yeah, and you said, I don't know who you are, but I think I'm I I think I'm gonna like you, or we're gonna be friends, or something like that.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:18

But but what's the thing that you always say? Um, and you said this.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

You're there, you are my there's no other friend like you, friend.

SPEAKER_05 10:26

There's no other friend like your friend, yes.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

You are my only friend like you.

SPEAKER_05 10:31

Yes. Have you ever said that to somebody else?

SPEAKER_04 10:34

No.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

You're the only one. Okay, that's mine. That is yours. That belongs to me. Yes, you are uh you are my there's no other friend like you, friend. That is that is the truth. Yeah. Um, and I I I love that we've grown together. There are conversations that I have with you that I cannot have with others. Um because everything ain't for everybody, and everybody doesn't appreciate everything.

SPEAKER_06 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

And like I said, you know, there are we appreciate words, we appreciate emotion, we appreciate relationship. Um, and it's not that others don't, but the way in which we appreciate it allows us to go deeper on some things that people, you know, we might hear some words and the way that they have been strung together.

SPEAKER_06 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

We're like, Did you hear that? And it could be simple. It could be simple. Because I always say my love of words, it's not that I need the super califragilistic and spealidocious type of words. I don't need the, it is the power of the arrangement of words that I love. Um and so getting back to too much to text and this podcast, you know, we live in a time where people are always texting and they're quick to go, and everything has to be in a certain amount of characters. But there are some conversations that it is just.

SPEAKER_05 12:01

They have to go beyond, they have to go beyond the technology.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

This deserves a conversation. This deserves a call.

SPEAKER_05 12:06

And I also think what I would attach to that is not just because some conversations are just bigger than text, but also because we our friendship is bigger than text. Like we have to connect. You know what I'm saying? Like we have to, we have to get on the phone and run our jigs. Yes, yeah. It's not the same. Yeah. Not just because certain things are lost through text messaging, but just because we just have to be able to say certain things. I need you to hear the emotion in my voice.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

I need you to Well, because I mean, I don't know why just now hearing that got me a little filled up. There are certain things that we say, and how we say it changes everything.

SPEAKER_06 12:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

You could say, I'm alright.

SPEAKER_06 12:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

And I could No, you ain't. Like there's a way to there's a way that we say things.

SPEAKER_06 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

And speaking of saying things, um, I remember when you first told me, well, you couldn't say, you would not say that you could say yes. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

And I was gonna come to that.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Yes. I I I recall, I I'll never forget I was at work. I was working for Morgan Stanley at the time. I was at work and we were having a call. And you said you said, I have something to tell you, and I was like, Well, what is it?

SPEAKER_05 13:27

Because I was at that point before you finished, because I was at that point in my life, I was 22, and I was at the point in my life where I was just tired of manufacturing this story and just performing, really, because that's really what it is. It's really performing, and it's exhausting, and I really feel sorry for people who don't live their truth, whether that's sexuality or anything else. Like, you know, it is more exhausting pretending to be someone that you're not than it is to just be who you are. And and I had just told another friend, I I really had no intention of telling her, but she called me, and to your point, she could hear over the phone that something was going on with me. And I just had the first experience with the guy that I met, and we were kind of dating or whatever, and it just came to that realization that nothing was happening with that. And she called me and I told her, and it wasn't received well. I remember she cried and she was just like, but you're you're supposed to be one of the she said, You're one of the good ones, you're supposed to get married and have kids and have a family. And and I remember her saying to me, it's never gonna work because it's wrong.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

You know this story enrages me.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

I know. And so I don't know how much time had passed between then and when I told you, but that kind of added to my reticence to mention it to you. And so I remember, I don't remember where you were, but you said you were at Morgan Stanley. And I remember, I didn't even recall that you were at work, but I remember saying to you, what I remember is saying, What do you think I want to say? I remember, and you said, I don't know, what is it? I said, Well, what do you think I want to tell you?

SPEAKER_04 15:18

Yeah, and I said, Whatever it is that you're gonna tell me, I love you regardless. So tell me.

SPEAKER_05 15:24

What you actually said was, that's the derivative of it. What you said was, there isn't anything that you could say to cause me to stop loving you because you are my friend. Well, that was what you said, and again, I remember it a different way because it it was it was mine, it was me, yeah. And so, um, and it and also looking back on that, it's just a reminder that I was so uncomfortable with the words I'm gay that I couldn't even say it. And I notice it in other people now. You know what I mean? Like they'll whether they use a pronoun, like when they're describing somebody that they're dating, they'll say, Oh, I went out with the person, or I went out with them, or you know, like, well, you went out with multiple people, like what do you, you know? But yeah, so I called you, you were at Morgan Stanley, and what do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 16:16

And and that, and then I remember saying to you, like, well, what is it that you want to say? And then finally you said, I said, Well, say it. Like, why can't you say it? Yeah, and finally you said that.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

And then I said it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Um and I cried.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

Yes, you cried, but for a very different reason.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

A very different reason. The tears were I was so grateful.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

You said, I'm so honored that you share that you shared that with me, that you trusted me enough to share that.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

100%. And I feel that way about my friendships, I feel that way about life. We don't we get to share life with each other, and so if somebody trusts you enough to share their life with you, that is an honor. Honestly to share their life with you. And the fact that you had been living or holding this secret, um, I loved that you chose me to be one of the people that you were comfortable enough to share your secret with as life came on. Um so yeah, I um but that that is the type of friendship that we have, and that is one of the conversations that was too much to text.

SPEAKER_05 17:37

It was.

SPEAKER_04 17:39

That would have been too much. Well, I don't even think. I was just gonna say. Was it a sidekick?

SPEAKER_05 17:47

It may have been a sidekick, but I didn't have a sidekick.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

No, a sidekick came after the two-way pages.

SPEAKER_05 17:52

We weren't definitely not texting yet.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Because we are friends who often talk about relations and life and what's going on. I wanted to start the podcast off um by asking you, how's your heart?

SPEAKER_05 18:09

Oh. Um, my my heart is good. My heart is in a good space. I think my heart is healed. Healed from that last relationship.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

I love that um when you when I asked about your heart, you immediately went to relationship. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 18:30

Yeah. I think I'm I'm happier now than I've ever been in my life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

That's a blessing. Yeah. That's a moment to stop and think, thank you, God.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things that that gives me pause like regularly. Um I haven't had a moment, a morning where I've um wake up in tears. I haven't had that happen in a while, but that's happened plenty of times. Where I'm just like, thank you, God, for my life. Thank you, God, for the life that you've given me. And and and I don't just mean like um, because I think like when I say this sometimes, I think people think that I mean um like stuff or money or things like that. I don't mean that. That that helps, but what I mean is just the freedom to just live and wake up and and live the life that I want to live every day, do the work that I want to do, like to have the freedom to the privilege to do that every single day because I remember the journey. I remember all of the days, the weeks, the months, the years that I was just dreaming about this life that I live now. And what I mean again is to be able to just go podcast city to city, writing books, creating online content to put into the like using my creativity. You understand what I'm saying? So it's just like like there are days that I'm still like in awe, like, because I've always known what God was capable of doing. I just didn't know if he would do it for me. I always knew what he was capable of doing. But you're just like, God, are you gonna do it for me? Are you every are you gonna actually choose me? Yeah. Because like for so many years you feel like you've been overlooked. But those I now know, looking back, it's those are the years that you're that you're being pruned, you're being primed, you're honing your craft, you know what I'm saying? Like all of that stuff is happening. You're do you're building and learning compassion, appreciation, all of that stuff. And so um that's the way I see it now. But when you're in the moment and you're going through it and your bills are late, and you know, you're struggling to make it day to day, month to month, whatever, you don't really, you just want to get out of that. You want to get out of that that space and time.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Um, you're ready to get over the hill. You're not really thinking about the lessons as much. But it's not until you really start to focus on the lessons that you do get advanced to that next level, whatever that is for you.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Yeah. So your heart is good.

SPEAKER_05 21:22

My heart is good. How is your heart?

SPEAKER_04 21:27

My heart is at peace. My heart is very grateful. My heart is loving and being loved.

SPEAKER_05 21:37

What are you grateful for?

SPEAKER_04 21:41

Peace. Love. Clarity. Companionship. Romantic companionship. Health. Good health. I'm grateful for my job because I've been laid off in my life twice. I'm grateful for my friends. And I say that understanding that I have clarity on who my friends are. Indyari. She said it best.

SPEAKER_05 22:28

And get it together.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

One shot to your heart without breaking the skin. No one has the power to hurt you like your friends.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

I didn't even want to admit it to myself. Yes, and now your chest burns and your heart aches.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

My heart is good, but it's been on so many levels, it is good. I would be lying if I didn't say that there are some days where I encounter moments of sadness. Um ironically, because of friendships that have expired. Dissipated.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

We don't really spend a lot of time talking about the heartache that comes from losing friendships or friendships coming to an end. We spend a lot of time talking about a breakup and how the absence of a relationship or the or the demise of a relationship causes us pain and that kind of thing. But those friendships, they can be just as painful. Of course. Like when they come to an end. And one of the things that I'm realizing is that sometimes, and this is for any in the context of any relationship, romantic or platonic, sometimes the cycle, they've cycled out of your life. Like the cycle has ended. You know what I mean? And like I was saying before, when we were talking yesterday, sometimes what happens is they've served their purpose in your life, you served your purpose in their life, and then you can sometimes never see people again. Like I was saying, like there are people from college, for example. I can pretty much get in touch with anybody through somebody that we went to school with because there are people who are still present and active in somebody's life that we're connected to. But then there are those people where you're like, oh my God, nobody's heard from her. And you know these people are still alive.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

But it's just like they don't ever show up for a homecoming. You never see them at out in a city anywhere, or you know what I mean, at no type of an event. And you're like, well, damn, what happened? Did they just withdraw from the world?

SPEAKER_04 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

But then I just think that sometimes No, there's another world.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

The world is so big.

SPEAKER_06 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

But yes, so small. But yet so small. Yeah. But it's so big that people are busy. Busy living life living their lives in other ways.

SPEAKER_06 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

And life keeps going. But my heart is really good. And like I said, some days it's really good. I've been going to therapist since I was 19 years old. And recently, um, I had stopped for a little bit, especially when I got laid off the second time. I mean, the first time I got laid off was in 2020. And then I got laid off in 2024.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Twenty-four. I don't know, whatever. But anyway, I had stopped seeing my therapist during that time just for a little bit because it was shit was expensive. Right. Um, but when I started seeing him again, when we got on the phone, I was just having such great life was good. Life is good. And I said that to him. And he said, Oh, you sound so good. And there was one thing that I could have talked about, and I said, I don't want to, because I didn't want to give that any energy. And so what I'm finding in life is the importance of placing energy where it's deserving.

SPEAKER_05 26:34

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

Or where it's deserved.

SPEAKER_05 26:36

And not feeding things that don't deserve that energy.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

But it's it's a it's an interesting act or a balancing act because sometimes you gotta give something energy in order for it to heal.

SPEAKER_06 26:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

You have to tend to a wound. Craig, I've been so hurt by some friends.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

But that hurt makes me realize how important I've all I've always known the importance and the power of good friendship.

SPEAKER_06 27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

Some people they've been in a relationship their whole lives, and they they you know, they got a man or they're in and out of men all the time, or they're in and out of women all the time, whatever it is. But my friends and my family have been my life.

SPEAKER_06 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

You know, I always say that life is about experiences and experiences happen with people. Right. So that means that my life is really made up of my time with my people. And um, I've always valued my friendships because I have some amazing friends. I'm very, very grateful for the friendships that I have.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

One of the things that I'm writing in this book is how souls come into your life. How is it predetermined what souls come into your life? Like there are nine, eight billion people in the world, however many there are. How was it decided that you and I would meet at Hampton? And then here we are 29, 30 years later, when I went to school with a lot of other people, you went to school with a lot of other people. You know what I'm saying? But then even when you dig deeper, even than that, I was so close to my family as a kid. Like we used to go to the beach every week in the in the summertime or every every day, every other day. Like it was such a close-knit family. And now as an adult, there may be a couple people in my family that I'm still in touch with.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

Very closely like that.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

But I think, and not because anything has happened, and not even just because of geography, because I live here and they live there, but I think it's also because, again, there's it's about cycling, there's different cycles, and it makes room. The universe makes room for other experiences and other interactions and other souls to collide with yours. Um, but then there are those that are like mainstays, you know, that have been steadfast. And like Elliot and I were saying yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

I'm so happy you're a mainstay.

SPEAKER_05 29:20

Right. Yeah, exactly. And so like Elliot and I were saying yesterday, like when I, because yesterday I had a housewarming, but it was really just a housewarming for people who were there supporting me, like when I was at the ground level, either they helped print books when I couldn't do it, they gave me a place to stay, or whatever it was. And so I only invited those people. So this was not an event for every friend of mine or everybody I know, it was just those people who I remembered. And so I said to Elliot at some point off to the side, I said, because I would have never met you if it hadn't been for Kim. Kim was his friend that had the natural, natural hair who was helping the cleanup. I would I knew her, and I knew her through an ex. Um we had met at the Bronze Lens Film Festival. It was her and Jodine. She and Jodine were friends.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Jodine.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

Yes. So it was me, Yso, the ex, and Jodine, and then Kim was there, and we were at the Bronze Lens Film Festival. I think it was the first one that they did here in Atlanta. And several years later, when I put that first book out, she reached out because she saw it on Facebook. I didn't even have, I don't even think I had, we may have had each other's phone number. I think we did have each other's phone number, but we weren't like friends like where we hung out or anything like that. But when my when I put that first book out, she reached out because she saw it on Facebook and said, Hey, I want to get a couple of those books. And so I met her in person, gave her the books, and then like a day later, she called me or text me and said, Hey, my friend Elliot wants five more of those books. Is it all right if I give you give him your number? And I said, Yeah, go ahead. I met Elliot at a gas station.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

Wow, to give him the books.

SPEAKER_05 31:04

To give him the five books. And then he and I became very close after that. Like he just kept reaching out to me. I need ten more books. I need he was buying the books and sending them to people in every different states. And then we became very close. And now he and I are very close.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

I think Elliot is one of the sweetest people on earth.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and speaking of friendship, I guess this is a perfect place to kind of weave this in. He showed uh, and again, when I think about like if I had never met him, when I was taking care of my mom, when my mom came to live with me, I would not have been able to do that without him. I couldn't have done that without him.

SPEAKER_04 31:44

And I think about it was the leaf from the tree just fell out.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

You really gonna do that? But uh, but yeah, I think about like how I wouldn't have been able to do that because I was taking her to dialysis three days a week. I was exhausted. And because he had lost his mom many years before, before I even knew him, he knew what that looked like, what that experience was like, what that felt like. And so he literally would bring his two work laptops to my house every single day. First it was on Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays, the days that she had dialysis. Then it became, he was coming every day, the weekends included. But he would come every weekday with his laptops and he would work from my house. Now just imagine you have the privilege and the luxury of working from home and you're packing your shit up to drive across town to a friend's house. Something you don't have to, that's friendship.

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

That's friendship. And if I'm honest, I can't even imagine doing that for anybody. I can't imagine me doing that. But that taught me a whole nother level of compassion and friendship.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Compassion and friendship got me in trouble. It caused me to lose a friend. But that doesn't mean that I'm not gonna continue to be compassionate or be a friend. Because I'm gonna continue to be compassionate and be a friend. Um but when I just said cons compassionate and friendship, compassion and friendship caused me to lose a friend. It made me think about Soul Food when she was like, The family fuck my husband. I had the family in my house.

SPEAKER_05 33:30

In the family, fuck my husband. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Um, but it did make me think of this thing that I saw on on the gram. And I don't know if um I guess you can hear it if I put it to my um my uh hold it up to my mic. Let me see if this works. I thought it was uh very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Your intentions are pure, you don't lose people, they lose you because you know what purity is in today's world? That exposes what other people are doing to me. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know what's happening. They lost the person who met with They lost the friend who cared deeply, they lost the partner who showed the effort. They lost the heart that they didn't know how to present. They lost the version of you that'll never meet again. Um sooner or later life will show them the weight of the loss. Not because you want revenge, but because you know, purity has a value. People only recognize in hindsight. So, you know, don't sit there wondering what's wrong with you. Don't replay the moments, don't question your worth. Don't rewrite your intentions. If you acted with sincerity, with loyalty, with clarity, with heart, then it wasn't your failure, it was their consequence. Because when your intentions are pure, God replaces every loss with something aligned, something better, something that matches the level you were giving. So yeah, you don't lose people, you simply stop caring those who were never capable of matching your honesty.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

The piece where he said something to the effect of um both of your your souls know that something to the effect of the your souls know that the relationship is over, and so you avoid each other, or something he said to that effect. I I think that kind of speaks to some of what we were talking about yesterday with Gina. We were talking about I think sometimes it's just this unspoken. You know that the relationship has kind of come to an expiration date, to its expiration date. Or even if you look at it like from a romantic standpoint, like neither one of us want to be the first to say goodbye. It's like no one. Yes. And so instead of broaching the conversation or saying the things that need to be said, you just kind of avoid each other.

SPEAKER_04 36:51

Yeah, but in friendships, I I I do think that all friendships, real friendships, deserve a conversation.

SPEAKER_05 36:59

I think so too.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

And I think that sometimes we take too long to have the conversations because we're so busy having the conversation with everybody else that we don't have it with the person that should be having the conversation with.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

And I think when too much space fills in there, both people start to make assumptions about what's happening, what's going on, and then you you just never get back to talking about it. Yeah. That happens in relationships too. Yeah. Like when you do that silent treatment thing, then next thing you know, somebody else then started moving on because it's like, okay, now we haven't talked in three days.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

Well, let's be clear, a friendship is a relationship.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

It is.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:44

Um But you know how there's this there's this conversation around we make more effort for relationships, like we'll give a relationship chance after chance after chance, but we don't really do that with our friendships. I beg to differ. I think that we do that in our friendships too. It just shows up differently, it just looks differently. Um and I think that what happens is in friendships, every at every turn, we don't have a discussion. But in a relationship, every time something gets uncomfortable, we want to have a conversation about it. But in relationships, I mean in friendships, it's like they just kind of we just kind of pile it on and pile it on, or we overlook it, or we just say, oh, that's just small, or you know, or we excuse it away because we know the person, and so we give them a pass, or you know.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

Until you sit back and then go over the years and be like And it accumulates. Well, this happened before.

SPEAKER_05 38:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

And before, and once before, and once before. And this is who they are.

SPEAKER_06 38:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

I have a friend who tells me all the time that I make excuses for my friends. He's always like, You you love to make an excuse for somebody? And I'm like, is it an excuse when you're really just trying to give somebody grace for human nature, for some people's human nature, or that you are understanding or trying to see, you know, I always see both sides of every point. Is that making an excuse, or is that just allowing people to be people and still accept them?

SPEAKER_05 39:21

You know, like but I guess the question is for me, where's the line? It's just kind of keeping with this whole idea that sometimes friendships cycle and and the cycle is over. Um I was telling you about two different friends, two separate friends of mine, where we've had distance between us before. And I feel the same way then as I do now about the distance, because to me, there shouldn't have been distance then or now because there was nothing significant that happened to cause the distance. But then I also understand that people have their own personalities, their own temperament, and people go through things, people go through their own seasons of depression and things like that, and sometimes you can't take things personally, but I'm just at a space in my life where I want easy friends. And I said this to you all yesterday. I'm not, my life has changed too much for me to be babysitting any friendships. Um and and and it's just gotten to the point where in this particular instance, it was a matter of this particular friend felt the way because me and a mutual friend of ours had been hanging out, and she failed to return his call in a timely manner, I guess, or how he felt. And he said to her, Well, I mean, I guess you you didn't have time to call me back because you were too busy running around looking for furniture with Craig. And so he didn't return her call, he ignored her texts. And my thing is, so you punishing her because she didn't respond to you quick enough? Or because you felt the way about her being out with me? And I just think that that's silly, especially since you're knocking at 60. And then I think that it was irresponsible because there's a history of suicide attempts, and for you to do that to her and not return her calls or texts, you're making her think something has happened. Something happened to you. Right, so that was selfish. And so, again, like I'm at the point now where it's just like, you know what, I can't keep revisiting this. And so I guess the question becomes how do you know in friendship? I guess the same as in a relationship, a romantic relationship, when is enough enough? Like, when do you get past trying to get past things? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's like I'm tired of trying to get past things with you. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just like this is too much. And you know what? Ironically, when we went to the gym today, there was a guy in there, when I first started out with my book, my first book, he offered to do my PR. And I don't remember, I must have put this in a part of my memory because I usually remember things to the letter. And I can't remember how we stopped talking, but he got upset and he stopped speaking to me and and and he stopped returning my calls and emails. I can't remember, I don't know if something happened or if I know he was going through something personally because he had a relationship that fell apart. And so I don't know if he got swept up in that. I can't really remember, but he was so excited to see me today.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

I saw somebody shaking your hand. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:57

Yeah. He was so excited. And I didn't see him sitting there, and he stopped me. He said, Oh my God. He said, It's so good to see you. And he was just like, I see everything that you're doing online. I'm so proud of you. And I'm just, I'm like, thank you. And I'm smiling, and I'm thinking, I'm trying to remember why the fuck we stopped talking.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

And now you all elated that you see me, and I'm sitting there thinking, don't be elated now.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

You know, but it also don't be elated now, but can he get a little grace? We don't know what was going on or why.

SPEAKER_05 43:29

Well, that's true. But my number hasn't changed. My number's been the same since 1999.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

You know, I I think um But that's my point.

SPEAKER_05 43:38

You didn't need to bump into me. My number's been the same since 1999.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

Child, you'd love to pick up the run that line.

SPEAKER_05 43:49

Because you could listen, I'm not one of the kids whose numbers changing every two and three years.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

Here's the thing things happen in friendships. Um, things happen.

SPEAKER_05 43:58

And I wouldn't even say he was a friend. But still.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

I I get it. What I'm hearing from you is that you don't like people to fall out of touch.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

Because I'm a Taurus and I'm I'm consistent.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

Yeah, and it it bothers you when people It does. People, if you're friends with Craig, keep in touch. Please keep in touch. Um it's that simple. His number hasn't changed since 1999. Please keep in touch. I have a friend, she's not really good with staying in touch. But you reach out to her and um she may never get back to you. But if you have an event and you embark it, she'll show up. She might be late, but she will show up.

SPEAKER_05 44:47

And um But is she also there for the meaningful things in your life? Not an event, but like let's just say there's a death in the family, or you know what I mean, is she's one of those people that will rise to the occasion.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

I I'm just thinking that I've had a lot of death in my family. And I don't recall her being at a funeral. But that doesn't mean that she's not a friend. Where I was going with this is that she stopped being my friend because of alignment with another friend.

SPEAKER_05 45:22

Do I know her?

SPEAKER_04 45:23

You do. And I was so taken aback by that shit.

SPEAKER_06 45:31

Now I'm trying to figure out who these people are.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

Um and you'll never know on this camera, because that's when you know that I ain't gonna do that. I will not drop any names. But I was so surprised at how willingly she dropped my ass for the alignment of another friend. And then when she came to her senses, she sent me a long text apologizing. You have never been anything but good to her.

SPEAKER_06 46:11

I know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 46:12

And I am sorry, and this, that, and the third. And what made me think about her with what you just said is she gave me this apology and um wrote this whole text and offered to take me to dinner and all of this, and I never heard from her again. My birthday's in October, and then I saw her at a holiday party in December. And she was so excited to see me and hug me and like like we had spoken again after she the apology. Yeah, and you gotta let people be who they are.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

Yeah, but I think sometimes that means letting them go. Well and being okay with that.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Because I I will let I will allow that some friendships dissipate.

SPEAKER_05 47:07

Right. I'll allow because I've had I can I can think of at least three friends, in addition to the two I just spoke about. Um, and I don't mean the one that we saw at the gym today, I mean the other two. I only shared one of the stories, but I have a third friend who happened, one of them he happened to be here yesterday. We didn't speak for a long time, and it had nothing to do with me. It had something to do with whatever was going on with him at the time. He just stopped speaking. When we finally sat down to have a come to Jesus, he said to me that he felt like he said he really couldn't remember what had happened, but he said he felt like I took someone else's advice about my career over his. Now, mind you, the person, I don't even remember this, but mind you, the person whose advice I took is somebody who's actively in the industry, entertainment. And I'm like, but you're not even in this field. So if I if I was to take somebody's advice, why would I take yours? But that's enough cause.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

Why are you mad that I took advice is something that we give and you do with it what you may.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

That's right. And not to mention it was unsolicited. I didn't ask you for your advice.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

Listen, the four agreements said it best.

SPEAKER_05 48:28

Don't take anything personally.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

Don't take it personal, because it ain't about you, it's about them.

SPEAKER_05 48:32

That's right. And then the other part of it is that that was enough cause for you to stop speaking to me for over a decade.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

I'm so happy he made it back here yesterday.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

I'm so glad he did too. But again, after that one, it we can never have another infraction like that.

SPEAKER_04 48:49

I You're not doing that.

SPEAKER_05 48:51

I'm not doing that again. You know what I'm saying? And so that's kind of where I am with the two that I was just talking about. This has happened before with them. So I'm just like, yeah, okay, I'm I'm okay with releasing this.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

Yeah. Yeah. I do want us to get back to the joys of friendship. I'm about to be 50.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 49:16

And I am at a point in my life where, like you said, when what was the getting past it?

SPEAKER_05 49:25

When do you get past trying to get past it with people? You know what I mean? Like, like, how do you know when you're you're tired of trying to work things through with people? When when are you?

SPEAKER_04 49:39

Even if and and and here's here's the issue. When you do get to that point, when you are past trying to get past it, that doesn't mean that you are not still dealing with the emotions and the feelings and the pain or the joy that comes with it.

SPEAKER_06 50:00

Yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 50:03

It's something that are emotions that come with the end.

SPEAKER_05 50:08

I don't feel anything with those two friendships that I just told you about, though. I I don't feel like any type of um grief associated with that. Like I don't even think about it. Um the only time I really think about it is when the friend, she said, Well, have you heard from him? I'm like, No. Why have you? And she's like, no. Like, I don't think about it. When do you know you're tired or exhausted from trying to get to the common ground with somebody and trying to get back to center and trying to smooth things out? It's like because some friendships, they just always have something going on.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

And it's just like, oh well, it's like in relationships where like I roots always used to say, um, sometimes you just have a good run.

SPEAKER_05 50:55

And that's what I'm saying. I think sometimes people cycle out of your life. Friendships, you just we had a good run.

SPEAKER_04 51:01

Yeah. We had some good times.

SPEAKER_05 51:03

Because I wrote that down. Let me see what um what did I how did I word that? Their cycle in your life is complete. Their cycle in your life is complete. And even though you were friends for 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 51:17

But there are some cycles that you don't want to end.

SPEAKER_05 51:20

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

And and because you feel that way about it, you will work towards it. Correct. There are some friendships, some relationships, some things that you are just not willing to let go.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

And so you've gotten to the point that you're tired of trying to get past it. Whatever that new thing is.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

We are gonna work this out.

SPEAKER_05 51:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

Because you believe that you two can. You know why?

SPEAKER_05 51:48

Because there's there's equal effort though.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

Exactly. And the and the conditioning of the relationship up until this point allows you to do that.

SPEAKER_05 51:56

It's the tanning of the relationship.

unknown 51:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 51:59

Yeah. But then there are those where you're like, God damn it, every time I look up every three months, it's something with you. I'm I'm tired of trying to get past things with you.

SPEAKER_04 52:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:08

You know, yeah, and that's just kind of how I am with with those two.

SPEAKER_04 52:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:13

I'm I'm just not doing it anymore. You know what I'm saying? I have enough, enough healthy, flourishing relationships, friendships, that I'm I'm fine, you know. Um, but I also think about as we approach 50, you know, like your friendship circle may start to dwindle or starts to dwindle.

SPEAKER_04 52:37

Shirley always tells me, like, your friendship circle does not have to be that big.

SPEAKER_05 52:42

Well, I mean, I've heard people say for years, like you're lucky if at the end of your life you have two friends or one friend, one.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

God. I literally just thought that's extinguishing a lot of friendships because I am blessed.

SPEAKER_05 53:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:04

We are blessed. Yeah. We have a lot of friends. We do. We have a lot of good friends.

SPEAKER_05 53:08

We do.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

We do blessed. I remember for I don't even know what birthday it was. Maybe my I don't know what year it was, but I had a birthday party in New York. There was a bunch of people there. My friend Tyson was there, and he said, Ooh, Danny, turn around. We were at one end of the room. And I turned around, he is that Tyson. I love him. And I turned around and I looked, and he said, You are loved.

SPEAKER_05 53:34

How is he?

SPEAKER_04 53:36

He's good. Yeah, he's doing really well.

SPEAKER_05 53:38

You gotta tell him I said hello.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

I will. Um, he's such a good heart type. He is, he is.

SPEAKER_05 53:44

He has such a great spirit, a great energy about him.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Yeah, he does. Um, and so he said, Danny, turn around. And I turned around and I looked at the room and he said, look at all these people in here. He said, You are loved. I am loved. I am blessed.

SPEAKER_05 54:04

But I also think, too, it's not just about friendships extinguishing. We're getting older, people die. You know, and you know, after losing my mom, like that was the if you have a relationship with your mother, there is no other death that is going to compare to that. There is no other loss. I don't give a fuck what it is. If it's a job, if it's a house, if it's a relationship, there is no other loss that's going to feel or compare to that. And so when I think about what could even come close to that, and when I say come close, it may not really be close, but the next in line is the death of a friend. Like I've literally thought about, because losing her has brought death in focus for me. And it makes me think about yeah, losing people. And I mean, one day I remember just tearing up talking about my friend Angela. Angela is 65. And one day we were talking, and I said, and so she's 65, so that means she's 15 years older than me. Well, really 16, because I'm not 50 yet, but it's like Angela, when I'm 65, you're gonna be 80.

SPEAKER_04 55:34

Yeah. But then I saw Angela yesterday, and she looks like she absolutely does. So Angela hopefully she'll be swinging 100.

SPEAKER_05 55:46

Correct. But but in terms of chronology, if she passes before me, I'm going to lose her.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:55

And I was thinking about the day I learned that she passes. Because I mean, we'll talk loosely about things. Like she'll say, Craig, I'm leaving things to you, I'm gonna da-da-da-da. Or she'll say, I want you to take care of this, or you know, as I get older, da-da-da-da, because she doesn't have kids, um, and all her family is in Alaska, and some in St. Louis. So, you know, and so we talk about stuff like that. And so when I think about that, and like I said, after losing my mom, it made me start thinking about who else. And I'm like, oh my God. I said, I'm gonna be really sad. And I like got teary eye talking to her on the phone one day. She said, Yeah, but then you're gonna be like, oh, that was my girl. We used to, I said, yeah, but I'm still gonna have that vacancy.

SPEAKER_04 56:41

Well, 20 years ago, I had a friend, um, her name was Rachelay.

SPEAKER_05 56:50

Oh, I remember her.

SPEAKER_04 56:51

And uh the day before her 35th birthday, well, we went to dinner for her birthday, uh group of us. And um the next day her sister called me in tears. I don't know if she's gonna make it. And I was like, what? She was in a car accident and died. The story is much deeper than that. I know, I remember it there. And losing Roshallay changed the way that I live life. It's made me let me know when you get home to people. In relationships, men sometimes think that I'm just being controlling or I want to know that's a good thing. Or insecure or being yeah, or like, oh, you know, oh, you you didn't call when you got home, something could you didn't, something could happen. You're like, none was gonna happen to me. You just want to know something has happened. I have learned that in life things happen. So, and I'm saying that to say that age is not the only thing that's right to bring somebody out of our lives.

SPEAKER_06 58:06

Right.

SPEAKER_04 58:07

Anything can happen.

SPEAKER_06 58:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

And the reality of that makes me appreciate this even more. Um I don't take my friendships for granted, which is why I am so hurt when things go left in a friendship. Because I mean well. Um and if you don't know that by now about me and we're friends, then you don't know me. And that's what I've had to come to terms with. And that's when I understand that it is more about who you are and less about who I am. Because I believe that I'm a good friend. I try to be, I friend differently.

SPEAKER_05 58:59

Everybody don't friend the same, and that's part of the reason why I'm single, because I relationship differently.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

Ciao.

SPEAKER_05 59:06

This stuff that's going on out here, I don't know what that is. I can't get with that. Yeah. So I'm gonna be over here in my little corner with my friends.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

Exactly. Until I find somebody who wants to relation the way that I relation.

SPEAKER_05 59:21

And not because I'm pulling you in my direction, but because that's how you want to relationship.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 59:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

Are you dating?

SPEAKER_05 59:29

No.

SPEAKER_04 59:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 59:31

Mm-mm. Mm-mm. And going back to the top of this, when I said I'm happier now than I've ever been in my life, juxtaposed with that, but I lost my mom. So, like, that's that one thing that's like, damn. I wish she could have been here for all of this. I know she saw it, you know, and people will say, oh, but she can see it now, and she can see it, yeah, but that's different from her being here to experience it. Because you can't see her see it. Exactly. Exactly. So, um, but I mean, I think I've done a really good job of making peace with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

Um Because how when did what when how long has it been?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:14

A year and a half. Um I was gonna say it hasn't been two years. No, October 4th would be two years. And um I had a dream about her recently. It was like two weeks ago. This is the first time I had a dream. And I remembered the dream when I woke up, but now I don't remember what it was. But it wasn't nothing, anything major or anything, but I remember we it was a dream a dream. I've made peace with it, and so even though I think about her every day, um I'm not it it doesn't bring sadness to me. I don't think about it in a sad way. But then that's the other thing. I see people who have also lost their mom and they still struggle.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:59

As if they just found out, you know. Um, so that's one thing that I'm grateful for.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

That you're yeah, you're that I'm managing. How yeah, that you're how you're managing. I remember when um when Gladys passed. I was so hurt for you. Um and I couldn't wait to get to you. That was hard.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

Being your friend and not being here.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

Um because I talk about too much to text, that's too much for phone. That's too much for like I I needed to be and whether it was selfish or not, like I I needed to know how you were. I wanted to be um with you. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:04

But it was just like with that breakup.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:08

That breakup? I remember when you flew down here. Was it for my party that you came down here for, or was it yes, I think it was for the party.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

And as soon as you was that it?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:25

Was that it?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

I remember because it was the first time I saw you since the the breakup happened, right? And you opened the door. And you No, was that the same? Was that no, it was two different times. It had to do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:41

I seemed like it was two different times, but I don't remember. But what I remember is when I opened the I remember saying you coming down the driveway and I opened up the door, and we hugged, and I remember breaking down and crying.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:55

And you were crying, and you said, I am so sorry he hurt you. That's what I remember. And then I remember coming to New York for that dinner. And I remember like you noticed like there were people trying to talk to me or whatever, and I remember you said to me, You I felt you looking at me. And I remember you saying, He's really interested in you, Craig. Like, you're not even like it happened like a couple times. Like you were, you said something like you're not even giving them a chance or something. And I was just like, I'm just not ready for anything like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then I remember before I left to leave your place to go to the airport, and you said you were getting ready. I was sitting on the couch waiting for you, and you you were putting lotion on your hands and you were moving around. And you said, and let me just say this. And I can't remember everything that you said, but I remember you saying, I know he hurt you. Um, but you're gonna be fine, and and and and something to the effect of don't let this keep you from loving again.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Yeah. Something like Jill Scott says all the time, just because you have a nightmare doesn't mean you stop dreaming.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:12

And then I remember you saying, and if it doesn't work again, then we'll get we will get through the through it, or something like that. And I remember the sincerity in it and and hearing all of that. But you weren't there, I wasn't there, and it was just like, wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:32

I just didn't want that experience to rob you of the possibilities of another.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:39

And I get that, and I believe that too. But also, I think I see relationships so much so differently now. Like I just I feel like to a degree I was looking at relationships with like these rose-colored glasses, and I just feel like I'm looking at them more realistically now, and just from a through the lens of people are flawed. All people, and people are gonna make mistakes, people are gonna do things that are going to hurt you. Some of those things are gonna be intentional, some of the things are gonna be unintentional. And the question really becomes: are you willing to navigate relationships in such a way that you allow people to be human and allow people to be imperfect and go into relationships with without the expectation that someone is gonna be perfect or unflawed or flawless. You know what I mean? Um, like Madison always says, you know, you gotta brace yourself for impact. Just brace yourself for impact. Yeah, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:59

We were listening to That song when we were driving to the gym a little while ago, and um Wale says you accept my flaws even though you're flawless. Because in his eyes, she's flawless. She's flawless. But she too is flawless. Two things come to mind just now listening to you retell the story of when I saw you after your last big breakup and the pain that you were in and us being there for each other. That is the evolution of you and the evolution of me as we uh we are growing and we're maturing and we're becoming. And I was very concerned that, like I said, that that experience was going to rob you of the next great thing because life experience is a good teacher. Take someone like someone like me to know. Um, but I think that with experience, you know, and and we were talking about this a little bit last night. Uh I was talking about dreaming, and that I forget who was sitting at the table, but they said that they had they've checked off all their boxes for their dreams.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:24

And I said then you have to create new dreams.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

Exactly. And I was thinking about how children, um, I was saying that I saw something online where they asked these children, if you could change one thing about your body, what would it be? And the kids were like, I would fly and I would do this, and they would have all these superpowers, you know, and they asked the adults, and the adults were like, I'd have a flatter stomach, uh, you know, my my face would be lifted, my you know, thighs would be smaller. And I was thinking, the adults have lost dreams because life has gotten away. Right. Sometimes be we allow, we can allow life to jade us. And you have to be intentional about wanting to continue to dream even when life has taught you certain lessons, and not um let experience be a hindrance, but something that will catapult you forward, you know, with knowledge. And um I think that was very important to me in that moment. I wanted to make sure because you're such a good person and you deserve love, and you love love, and it's such a big part of who you are in your life. I just didn't want to see you say no to love again because you had been disappointed. That that wasn't the end all be all for love. Right. I thought about that in this moment, and I also thought about the evolution of you. And I don't know why I thought about this, but as you were coming into who you were, or who yeah, who you were then, um when you first came out, I remember I came here, I saw you, like, you know, we saw each other a few times, and then you came to New York one time, and you had dyed your hair, and you had on this t-shirt with these holes in it, and these safety pins in it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:32

Gina always brings that up. Y'all will never let that down.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Well, it was just it was a different Craig.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:40

And you were f you were finding who you were, like, you know, and that's who you were in that moment. But then the next time I saw you, you were a different, you know I mean you were Craig, but you aesthetically, you were a little different. And I was like, oh, he's coming into who he is, like this is who he is, you know what I mean? Um and I think that in friendships we get to see that, we get to see the evolution of us, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:13

And I think going back to what you said a moment ago too about the gratitude part, and when I was saying about being at peace and the gratitude that I feel now, it's because I didn't give up. Like the thing that you just said a moment ago, like you gotta establish new dreams. Like when people, whoever it was that said they've they've checked off all of their dreams, okay, now it's time to dream something else. But like there are a lot of people who give up on the dream because life beats you down, because life gets in the way. There's marriage, there's divorce, there's death, there are job losses, you know, financial setbacks, whatever it is that life throws your way that causes some people to get off course from whatever that dream that they had in mind for themselves. But I navigated around through that, you know what I'm saying? So, like that, that's sometimes the tears that I have. It's just like, wow, yeah, God did it for me, but it's also like, damn, you didn't give up. Like, no matter how difficult it became, you kept going.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:19

You know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:21

Well, I'm so glad we had this topic.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:27

Right. Because the time is up.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:28

The time is up.