WOW: Wise Older Women
“Wisdom That Grows Louder with Time.”
Welcome to WOW: Wise Older Women a podcast dedicated to raising the status of ageing women and dismantling the narratives that silence them.
Here, older women speak with authority, beauty, depth, and fire. Their stories challenge, inspire, and illuminate.
In a world that too often ignores, isolates, or diminishes older women, we choose to listen. To revere and celebrate the brilliance, courage, humour and tenderness they bring along with plenty of high‑vibration wisdom carried in their words.
These conversations aren’t just stories, each one of them is a teaching. A personal map from the past, forging the way ahead, full of magic, medicine and momentum.
This storytelling series presents ageing not as decline, but as ascent. It’s a platform where older women don’t need to hide. This is where they are honoured, uplifted, heard and held; with reverence, respect, and wonder.
Their voices are powerful, their wisdom is vibrant, and their stories are a gift to us all.
Welcome to the podcast. Settle in. Let their voices guide you.
WOW: Wise Older Women
S1 Ep3: Nancy Jo Falcone
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Nancy Jo to her listeners, is a proud founding member of BAYFM community radio and has been involved in the Community broadcasting sector for over 30 years.
She worked for 12 years as a volunteer in the early days of BAYFM presenting different programs, serving all executive committee positions, including President, fundraising, and sponsorship to name a few.
Over the years she has also worked as a station manager in the First Nations sector in WA, an administrator for the National Ethnic and Multicultural Broadcasters Council in Melbourne and a Radio Broadcast trainer for the CMTO (Community Media Training Organisation).
Having come full circle, she’s very happy to be back as part of the Multicultural Nation radio program team. You'll hear her every 5th Tuesday of the month, focusing on stories from migrant workers with their music and cultural aspects of living in Australia, contributing to our truly Multicultural Nation.
Traditional storytelling at its best with wisdom and knowledge shared through the age-old art of conversation.
This is a CBF grant funded project in collaboration with BayFM Byron and Plantation Studios.
Executive producer Rasela Torise.
Music www.purple-planet.com
First of all, it was racism, and then it was sexism, and now it's ageism. So I've gotta fight three battlefronts.
SPEAKER_04Wisdom's not something you can buy a book and learn. It's not something you can grab off Instagram, it's not something you can you can buy in a course.
SPEAKER_07I needed that courage when I was being threatened, kidnapped, raped, almost murdered.
SPEAKER_03As I'm speaking now, the tears are just rolling down my cheeks. Tears of utility. So important.
SPEAKER_01And the work is so much knowledge supporting your knowing. Your wisdom. It's a possibility.
SPEAKER_06The most important activism right now is information for yourself and others. And that's why I'm so happy to be on a community radio initiative to raise the status of older women. Because older women in almost every community carry knowledge and gifts and experience that are of real value in the real world, in the economy, in the culture that we all care about.
SPEAKER_08Welcome to a new series, Wow, Wise Older Women, a CBF grant-funded project created to raise the profile and status of women aged 55 to 85. Across six episodes, we celebrate the profound value of older women and their essential role in society as wisdom keepers, culture carriers, and the voices of lived experience. Through intimate, thoughtful conversations, this series honours the knowledge that only time can teach. In this episode, we meet Nancy Joe Falcone, a proud founding member of Bay FM Byron and a deeply respected figure in Australia's community broadcasting landscape. For more than 30 years, she has championed the power of local media. Beginning with 12 years of volunteer service in Bay FM's early days, she presented programs, held executive committee roles, including president, and drove fundraising and sponsorship efforts that helped shape the station's future. Her commitment to community broadcasting took her across the country, working as a station manager in the First Nations sector in Western Australia, serving as an administrator with the National Ethnic and Multicultural Broadcasters Council in Melbourne, and training the next generation of broadcasters through the Community Media Training Organisation. Now, having come full circle, Nancy Jo returns to the airwaves as part of the Multicultural Nation team, sharing stories from migrant workers, their music, their cultures, and their contributions to Australia's rich multicultural identity. The series brings you traditional storytelling at its finest. Wisdom shared through the age-old art of conversation. Join us as we listen, learn and celebrate the voices of women whose insight enriches us all.
SPEAKER_05My name is Nancy Cho or Nancy Falcone. I will be 79 years old this year. In November, I feel very privileged to be part of Wise Older Women and thank you for inviting me to participate.
SPEAKER_08It's my absolute pleasure. So this microphone in front of you isn't an unusual thing for you, is it? You've got a long and lustrous history in community radio. Tell me what you love about community radio.
SPEAKER_05Doing something for the community in a volunteer situation, doing the thing I love the most, playing music or listening to music, and have that be the so-called job, quote unquote, to contribute to the community that I was living in at Byron Bay, like in other words, paying my dues for being so privileged to live in that area.
SPEAKER_08But it wasn't the area that you were born and raised in. So can you tell us a little bit about your origins and where this lovely warm accent comes from?
SPEAKER_05I was born in New York City. My father came from Italy and my mother from Mexico, so I'm first generation American, I suppose. I came to Australia in 1971 with a husband and a baby. I immigrated here because I felt that it would be a good place to raise a child. This is my home now. Can you reflect back maybe on your upbringing and what it felt like to grow up there? In the beginning, having my family around me, which were all Latinos andor Italians, we had not only Mexicans, we had Chileans and people from Puerto Rico and that were part of our family. You know, they either married into the family, mainly Chileans, besides the Mexicans. So I had the Spanish language, I had the cultural aspects of food, and then there was that Italian side too. So that made me feel comfortable living on the East Coast. But when I was about nine years old, we moved out to the West Coast to California, and along with that was a mass migration of people from the Midwest who weren't used to seeing people with darker skin that I have. The only group of people that I felt comfortable with were the other Mexican Americans who lived in California, so we kind of made friends with them, even though they weren't family, because most of my family stayed on the East Coast. So those were the challenges of growing up in California, and then with the US becoming involved through the Cold War and then Vietnam, I felt sort of disillusioned with the politics, and I left when Nixon got elected and decided that there must be a better place. And my parents were migrants, so they couldn't say, Oh, where are you going, what you're doing? It's just like I'm going for the better life like you did. My father passed away just before I left, so I felt I could go.
SPEAKER_08And you said that you had a small child and a husband. How did that all happen before you left in 71?
SPEAKER_05Kind of ready, I'd been traveling around Europe, kind of ready to settle down. And I've had these fantasies of arriving in Australia and having my pick. But I went back to the States to work and save money, and in the meantime, my brother's best friend was in the Navy, and I knew him way before he was around our house as teenagers. And there he was with his uh his navy suit on, his uniform, and he looked so cute. So anyway, my brother made sure that I ended up with him. His parents were from England, so they were migrants as well. And I said, I want to go to Australia, and he said, Okay, let's go. We'd had a child in between that time, so we did the same thing his parents did and my parents did.
SPEAKER_08And how easy or difficult was it to migrate to Australia from America in 71?
SPEAKER_05I hate to say it. It was so easy that I feel really sorry for people today. All we had to do was get a TB test and be married with a baby, speak English. We both had a couple of years in college, so we were educated and skilled. We applied and got permanent residency straight away, plus three-quarters of our airfare given back to us. And I feel that it was so easy and almost unfair what they're doing today. But that's how it happened. So they made it easy for us, and I also had relatives from Italy that I didn't know about who were living in Melbourne who came from my father's village, and also my friend that I'd met in London. So we had people to go to when we got here. So that's why we ended up in Melbourne.
SPEAKER_08What were the most significant cultural differences or changes that you noticed from you know where you'd come from?
SPEAKER_05It was pretty similar back in those days, especially having that Italian community that I had access to, and having like second cousin relatives, I kind of felt at home really. We both worked, he worked during the day and I worked at night. Jobs were easy to get, and I feel that it was very similar in the sense of our lifestyle. Of course it was freezing cold down there. Do you wouldn't believe it? We lived in Turek, because my friend said we had to live there in this little flat we shared. And I used to walk down to Pran to the market square. And as I walked down there, I felt that wind go through me. I said, Oh yeah, I'm next to the Antarctic for sure. So I met a girl from Queensland at work, and I said, Where's that? She says up north, and I said, What's it like? She goes, Oh, it's sunny and warm. So I went home and because we arrived in winter, and I said to my husband, We're getting out of here, we're going to Queensland. So we left and headed north. And he's still there behind Burley Heads. We ended up on the Gulf Coast. That's how we got up in this area. And then the surf and everything, it was just like we just fitted in. What was it like arriving there? Was it 72? 73. Yeah, no high rises. Surfers were starting to get above three floors, going to four, but the big towers hadn't been built yet. And then nowhere else along the coast. It was like what two kilometers wide. And as soon as you went inland, which we were, Alphtella Buddha Valley, it was all farms, dairy farms, no country estates, none of that. No traffic, no freeways. If you wanted to get to Brisbane, you had to take the Pacific Coast Highway. It was very peaceful and lovely, and even the weather was different. The winters there were very dry and warm. It was just glorious out there. We had access to fresh milk because we were on a dairy farm. It was like having the hippie lifestyle dream, uh, having your own gardens, having cow manure and horse manure. We had horses we could ride. It was just ideal of being sustainable yourself, but still working.
SPEAKER_08So what sorts of work opportunities were available to you?
SPEAKER_05I met Taco Bill, who is a Californian who brought the tortilla making machines to Carumban, and he was producing corn chips and tortillas and opening up restaurants, particularly in Melbourne to begin with. I didn't even know he was there. But I met him and when we got to the Gold Coast, he said, Go to Surface Paradise, there's a restaurant there, and you know, you can work. So I did, and then I thought, where's the next one? The next one was in Byron Bay, a Mexican Mix. And I thought, maybe I should do one in Coolingata, you know, I could do it. So I opened up a restaurant in Coolingata called the Mexican Garden, and it was there for the next twenty some odd years. Not me, but my ex took it over. People would come from the hills because they could get vegetarian meals, beans, rice, tacos, and all that, and turned them on to guacamole, and people coming in after hours banging on the door, please I want some of your Mexican cake, which is really just a made-up thing of a bit of pineapple and flour and sugar. It wasn't much, you know, it wasn't real Mexican cake. And the guacamole and the chili sauce, they all loved it.
SPEAKER_08So were there a lot of Australians that were really opening up to new flavors and and cultures at the same time?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, it was also surfing community as well, which we were comfortable in coming from California. So we kind of melted into that, and we had taken over, I had, I'm the one that started it, had taken over a kitchen that was already set up because it was a vegetarian restaurant. But for some reason or other that didn't work because that was like one of the first ones that were ever around. And so we had a kitchen set up, not with stainless steel standard, but just with home stoves and ordinary benches and big sink and introducing that food, being able to have vegetarian again. That's what people came down from the hills for, those people that lived up the back of the Gold Coast in Catella Bojavelli, Carumbin, Top of Tweed, Glengarry, around there. They'd come down f because they knew they could get vegetarian meals, even though I served meat as well. That I even had Mexican mix show up one night, trying to tell me, Well, you better have the same standard I do so that you know when they come down to Byron, I said to him, Excuse me, and I'm half Mexican. Where are you from? He was a pommy. What did he know?
SPEAKER_08So where did all these recipes and flavors? Were they just things that you grew up with? Were you in the kitchens with your grandmothers or your p your mom? Yeah. And my mother. Yes, she taught me and my grandmother. Everything. You mentioned that you had one child when you first arrived in Australia. What was it like working probably full time?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was the thing that eventually got to me because at that time I'd split up with my husband and he was looking after our son. And I was working, um no kidding, sixteen hours a day. And even when I would go to sleep, oh I've got to get some beans tomorrow I gotta buy some more tomatoes. You know, it was just constantly on my mind. So I have a big laugh when these people go on Master Shep and say, I want to open my restaurant. And I'm going, Yeah, you wait. It's hard work. And after a year, it was doing well. It was on a mezzanine floor, they were lining up down the stairs to get in, you know. We could only see thirty people, so we were doing two sets every night. And I just said to my ex, I can't do this anymore. I want my son back. And do you want it? And he said, Yeah, I'll do it. After a year, he's the one that took it to the next twenty some odd years. Made it bigger. He went up another floor and had a bigger shop, put all the proper stainless steel kitchen in, everything, put in more chairs and that. All he could cook was eggs on toast when I first met him. So I taught him everything and and he's the one that profited from it, did really well. So yeah, it was too hard for me. I was hiring my friends, which was stupid, but I didn't know anybody, you know. So yeah, it was really hard. And I thought, no, I'd rather be with my kid than be working twelve to sixteen hours a day. 'Cause that's what it felt like.
SPEAKER_08Uh a lot of women do have to take pauses. Don't have to, but choose to. What did you and your son do? Did you stay in the area and call and gather?
SPEAKER_05We moved up the back of Tweed and I think I was on a single mother's pension in those days and I wasn't working per se. Uh some of my friends started moving down to Byron from the Gold Coast, and I thought I think I'd like to go down there. But when I did move up the back of Tweed, that's when I fell pregnant again.
SPEAKER_08That's a funny story, but is it one that you want to briefly touch on?
SPEAKER_05It was with my ex. Oh, him and his brother-in-law opened up a restaurant in Moulinball and called it South of the Border. They opened up a Mexican down there as well. So we were kind of expanding the business. So he came up one night to drop off the sun up at the back of Tweed, and then came down into Carumbin Valley, and then into Total Budget Valley to go home. Well, he spent the night, okay, so the rest is history. So I had this baby up there. So I had the two kids then. But then I moved down to Byron with both of them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08What were your first impressions and memories of Byron Bay back then?
SPEAKER_05Oh man, it stank. When the wind was coming from the north, you could smell the meatworks. When it was coming from the west, you could smell the tip. When it was coming from the south, you could smell the sewerage works, which was in between or just opposite the footy ground. All right? That's what it was like. The tip was where the market ground is. But the beauty of it was that there was this surf culture happening and food culture starting up, and and you'll find out lots about it in Trish Chance's book called Neverland. She wrote a book about that beginning surf culture and the and the US influence, because there were a few of us. And Aussie together making this cultural place with vegetarian restaurants and I didn't do any more food though. I worked in restaurants, I didn't have my own. So that all started there, and shop owners knew your name. You could say, Have you seen my son? Yeah, he walked past here 15 minutes ago. He's on his way to the Pinny Pollar, you know. So yeah, it was beautiful. It was really quiet and peaceful and beautiful surf.
SPEAKER_08And when did that all change? All the the smells coming from every direction. Was it a gradual change or what did it seem like, you know, there were plans to make this place more than what it was?
SPEAKER_05More and more people came. That's what happened. And so they needed more accommodation to accommodate them. More and more people were discovering Byron Bay, including people that stayed permanently, and they came and went. A big San Yasin contingent showed up and changed a few things. A lot of them were European. Oh, and then the Swedish backpackers changing it through that tourism backpacking, but still low-key. And then it just kept accelerating from then until what it is now.
SPEAKER_08And what about you? Are you much of a surfer yourself?
SPEAKER_05Well I used to be. Yeah, I was in the water all day long, in California particularly, and coming out and there were the girls that used to make fun of my skin color, and I'd say, Oh, you all trying to get my colour now, are ya? Because they didn't go in the water. You know, they had to keep their little bubble hair due in perfect place and their little lacy bikini on, you know, they just laid in the sun. What kind of board did you ride? Oh, I used to ride great big mailboards with the boys. So I'm out in the water with the boys.
SPEAKER_08So that would have been pretty rare as well, especially in Byron back though.
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah, it didn't do much in Byron because it was a different attitude. I knew a lot of girls that went in the water in Byron and got told to get out, you know. I was in the water still swimming and body surfing, but no, I didn't get much into board surfing as I got older.
SPEAKER_08Do you think that also changes with children? Some of the ways that you approach things in life?
SPEAKER_05Well, my kids were in the water every day because we lived on Shirley Street. All they had to do was cross the railroad track, go up the dune and down, and there they were at the wreck. Every day after school that's where they were until it got dark. My eldest son did really well. He was part of a board writers club and he would compete, but only in a club situation where some of his friends went on to be professionals. So it was a major part of our life, yeah.
SPEAKER_08What about your own thoughts and dreams? I know that you're someone that's very capable, and when you put your heart into something, it feels like you give it absolutely everything. So were you at home with kids but still wanting to have some kind of career or anything like that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I did. I had a couple of ways of doing that, starting out with the arts factory that was getting ready to open as a so-called arts center owned by Dan Dopel. It was at the old piggery, but by the time I got there that piggery was finished. But the one out at Skinner Chute was still there. They weren't slaughtering animals there, but if you drive past it, it still stunk. So anyway, um he bought the old piggery and we started remodeling that, cleaning it out and turning it into a so-called arts hub where people could have different spaces and do different things. BC had his leather shop up the front, Colin Haney was out the back making candles and then got into glass blowing. So those sort of things were happening in that space, and then uh we got a liquor license, had a bar, and then there was a group of us that produced theater there once the stages and everything was set and the place was all cleaned up and the kitchens were made and chairs, tables, everything was put in there. We did children's panamine theater, and we also did a burlesque cabaret there, which kind of set the town upside down. Those were just temporary events that happened, and then Kevin and Karen Oxford came up and it was turned into a touring band music venue and went on from there to be that till the day it closed and also the creation of Bluesfest at the premises.
SPEAKER_08Can you give us an inkling of what the very first Bluesfest was like? And even where the idea came from and what it took to actually get that off the ground.
SPEAKER_05Well Kevin Oxford, I would say, is the main thing because Dan was open to anything. Kevin was already touring bands down in Sydney and Central Coast. So he had already had that experience. And Peter Noble, who is now the director of Blues Fest, used to bring bands to the arts factory. And Karen was the licensee for the alcohol sales. Two stages, one upstairs, one downstairs. Major touring bands coming through there, all from Australia or even overseas. We had a few. And then the Blues Festival started with the idea of getting some overseas acts and a few Aussie acts, but it was very, very small. It only had maybe twelve, thirteen, fourteen acts. How many does it have nowadays? Too many. Yeah, that was amazing because you you kind of got introduced to that genre of music and artists that you didn't really know much about. Yeah, it was amazing the very first one. And it just grew and grew and grew from there.
SPEAKER_08Probably also had quite an impact on the town itself. What an introduction to the place, the energy. Was there a community radio station anywhere in Byron around that time?
SPEAKER_05Well, that was all part of it too. No, there wasn't. But there was a group of people who wanted to do it. There was a gang of us. You know, we were all the same age in our 30s. Uh there was a whole mob of us that were either involved with the arts factory working in that industry or working in hospitality. Musicians were coming, music was happening in Byron, so how can we keep it here instead of it going off and waiting another year before it came back? Bob Commodore, who was one of the gang, he said, let's start a station. So they called a meeting for people that were interested. I didn't go to the first one, but Terry Wells did. I went to the second meeting and got hooked. And so, well, what do we have to do? How do you have a radio station? Don't you have to have lots of money? Now there's community broadcasting. What's that about? Okay, so got an introduction to that. We have to be incorporated, we have to have elections, we have to apply for licenses. Where are we gonna do this? How are we gonna do it? And we just all put our heads together and had our mock broadcast in the park where we hired a caravan with a little studio set up in it from the health service. Had it in Railway Park and had the speaker outside, and each of us played DJ and this is what it could sound like. You know, do you want it? Sign up here, help us out, give us money. We had little raffle prizes and what have you to give away. So the mock broadcast was good, and then we applied for an official broadcast with what was called the ABA. So we hired the caravan again and set it out and took it to various sites up the Cape, up the top of Ewingsdale, over at Ocean Shores, and we took it at various locations. We had a frequency allocated to us, but it was only for a week. And it was only like six o'clock in the morning till midnight. So for six hours there wasn't anything. So we moved around with the little caravan and that was our first broadcast. And then we applied again for another one, which I think went for two weeks. And we did it again. We drummed up all sorts of things. We were going to air, and people were starting to like it and think, yeah, we could have this, this would be great. And we had an office at the epicenter. The meatworks turned into an art thing, like a doof hole and some offices, so we had our office there. And then we went for the third one, which was a month. We asked for letters of support and they came pouring in. Written letters in the post. There was no email then. And they came pouring in. And people could hear us, you know, and every day it was just full-on exhaustion, because somebody always had to be around the person on air and make sure they got on on time, and everything went well. So there was a group of us who were there day and and night almost, you know. And then we had uh Neville Newell, who was our member for Parliament. And the day we were supposed to finish, he came in and said, You have to keep going. And we said, No, we've had enough, we can't do it anymore, you know. You've got a special drop-through license that has only been given out to one other station. I don't know the history. Hardly anybody ever gets it, and you have to keep going. So we went, Okay, okay, we did it, we did it. Hey, you know, we were so happy. So there was a radio course over at TAFE, so some of us went along over there to learn how to use a desk and to, you know, make pretend we were on air and you got a certificate, just radio one. That was the only thing that was happening at the time, to help us, you know, sound a little bit more professional because you know, we were pretty rough in those days. And it just evolved from there into 24 hours award-winning, because we became part of the Community Broadcasting Association of Australia, which now includes over 400 radio stations in this country. And I will tell you now, I don't think there's another country on this planet that has a community broadcasting system that this country has. It's amazing. We became part of a family, learned even more about different things, and the business community supported us. I'd go see Tom Mooney at the Rails, and he'd say, Nancy, just take the money. I don't care if you mention our business or not, I want you to have it because you're working hard for nothing, right? And you're helping getting something going. Here, have it. That's the sort of attitude that was happening in those days. It was great.
SPEAKER_08Well, so it's up and running. You have many roles at Bay FM over your years. Can you remember maybe a handful of those? Because I'm sure there were more.
SPEAKER_05President, vice president, secretary, sponsorship rep, fundraising organizer. The only thing I couldn't do was the tech and the treasury. I didn't want to know about, but everything else. And that also gave me experience and taught me new skills. And then I thought, how can I get paid to do this? Where could I go to get more knowledge? Because it was volunteer for 12 years, but the skills I learned besides all-air presentation, I thought there's gotta be a way to do it. So I discovered that there was a BA in communications at Southern Cross, and a few of us went over and did it. It took me four years. And what age were you when you started it?
SPEAKER_0854, 55. What was that like going to uni or being maybe slightly older in a in a different kind of environment again? Yeah, what was that experience like?
SPEAKER_05Speaking of wise older women, yes. Only 15 mature age students got in that year, and I was one of them because of the volunteer experience that I had. There were hundreds of applications for mature age. I felt very privileged, and then here I was. Oh my god, I have to write essays. I was going over there with other friends' kids who were going to uni. One was doing a business, another one was doing media with me. I was driving over there with 18-year-olds, you know. Sitting in class with 18-year-olds, you know, 19-year-olds. You know, it was just like, oh, I've got to study, I've got to do this, I've got to do that. So while I get the distinctions in radio one, two, and three and music promotion, those core subjects, philosophy and social studies, I don't know what they were. I just thought, oh no, this is this isn't easy. Big brick walls all the time that I had to constantly knock down. Luckily my kids were gone. They weren't living with me anymore. My younger son went up to live with his dad to do his last two years of high school, and my oldest boy was already out on his own. It wasn't easy at all. And even at the last day, the last assignment, the last minute, this is all I have to do now, and I'm finished. This is four years later because I couldn't do it full time. I had to work. I was in tears. I just thought, why? Why can't I just get over this? Why can't I knock this last brick wall down? It was huge. And somehow I managed and did it. Being 58, it wasn't easy.
SPEAKER_08What do you think kept you going? Is it just in you that you would never start something and not finish it? I'm a New Yorker.
SPEAKER_05I hate to say it. And a yank. And over there, you know, there's 350 million of you. If you don't stand up and speak a little louder, you ain't gonna be seen or heard, right? So yeah, I've always had that determination. And my father's work ethic too. I mean, I came from a family who all of us, didn't matter if it was aunties, uncles, we all worked too much, too hard to keep that dream going of having the pool and the new car every two years and all that sort of stuff that they wanted, not me. So I sort of had that determination from my family, I think. And mm, I suppose being American too, you know, it's the way it is. That's the way we are. Sorry. No, I'm not.
SPEAKER_08When you did finally finish uni and climb that last wall and and send that last paper off, what did you envision after that?
SPEAKER_05I looked at ads on the internet. Seek, all of 'em. CBAA puts out stuff. I wanted something in radio. I was ready to leave Byron, I didn't care. Nobody else wants to go, but if you want a good paying job that's gonna give you holiday pay, sick pay, superannuation, which I never got in a job in Byron, except for one working in a delicate test, and I used to get super. So I thought I want a good paying job, and the only way I'm gonna get it is with a degree, so now you've got it. What's happening in the country? And I started looking around and applying. Now that I had my degree, I could. And twelve years of volunteer experience.
SPEAKER_08It really does speak to the opportunities that come from volunteering in an organization. The rewards that come and the opportunities that arise are there for everyone. Where did it take you this degree and your hunting online?
SPEAKER_05I thought, well, you know, I can manage. I've done all the executive committee positions, I you know, know about broadcasting, I was teaching other people, so I thought, well, I think I'll try a manager because I saw some managerial jobs available. I looked for one that had a really good salary, it was fifty thousand dollars, and then that was 1999. And I went, wow, where's this fifty thousand dollar job at? The Kimberley in Western Australia. I thought, oh, Aboriginal radio station, this sounds interesting. Manager, 50 grand, holiday pay, sick pay, car, house, furniture, everything I needed. I could just leave everything behind in Byron and just go and be totally set up. So I applied for it. I had a friend who was at university with me and helping me through that last hurdle. She used to read poems at the markets. Her name was Bird, and she was a New Yorker as well. And she said to me, get a little recipe index thing and put down a hundred things that you want. So the first thing I wrote down is a good paying job. And then the second one was a new couch, a new washing machine, everything, right? And I only got to 74 and I couldn't think of anything else. So I put down diamonds and pearls just for the hell of it. And then when I got that job, I got the job. I got the washing machine with it, I got the fridge, got the because she said put anything down. And I got everything, including the diamonds and pearls, because they were in the Kimberley and I had the money to buy them. And I never even wanted them until I got there and saw how beautiful they were. So I thought I got all of the things I ever wanted. But the first thing had to be the job in order to have the money, but I didn't even have to buy these things. It was all there for me. It just all fell into place.
SPEAKER_08Can you describe what a small remote Aboriginal community radio station uh might look like in that home that contained all of those things on your wish list?
SPEAKER_05It was pretty well set up because it had a $250,000 a year budget. So it was well looked after and the presenters got paid. It was a job. So it was like an opportunity for people because it's it was in a town, it wasn't in a remote community, but they serviced the remote communities that were around the town. That's what their purpose was. So this is Fitzroy Crossing. Mm-hmm. And everyone said, Oh, Fitzroy Crossing, oh, it's got a pile of beer cans that you can see from space and all this sort of horror show stuff about it. And then my friend James Dodds, who owned the shoe factory, he said to me, Nancy, don't listen to them. He says, There's a light out there that will just astound you. And it did. It was so beautiful. The name of the station is Wongi Yupunarupuro, which means sending out a message. But it's known as Wangi Radio. And I was there for four years. I'd had a two-year contract. They asked me if I wanted to stay. I said yes, because I really enjoyed my job. I loved it. Go to Broome on the long weekends, go to the beach, go shopping, I had all this money. It was great. And then I'd go back and train new people all the time. Older presenters had come back, they'd left because Aboriginal people kind of move around a lot to different family areas and different communities. And I learned so much, so much out there from their culture because they're very traditional people. And I was astounded by their knowledge of things. And I would say to them, You are so intelligent. And they go, No, you're the one that's got the piece of paper that you you're the one that went to university. You're more smarter than we are. I said, No, I'm not. I said, I don't know what that little dent in the sand is, but you do. You know that if you see that little dent in the sand, you can stick your fingers down there, get a little frog out, put them on the end of a hook and catch a bear. I said, I don't know that. I said, You are more intelligent than I am. This is how I felt about them, even though most of them didn't even finish high school. I loved the time off that I had being out there and being in the bush in the wilderness and catching bear all week. Everything about it was amazing. There were hard times with some people, you know, inter-clan things, things that were going on in the town. But for the most part, I still reckon it was probably it's up there with being the best job I've ever had. And I was so glad that I went out there and experienced all that. And it set me up for life, basically. Because I was able to save money. I think that was the main thing that I had nothing when I got there. And when I left I was able to buy a house down in Calberry in Western Australia and start having some sort of financial security for my older years.
SPEAKER_08And I'm really interested to hear what that light was like that you that you yeah, that you throw your head back and stare as if you're staring at it again with a big smile on your face. What what is that light like out there?
SPEAKER_05Don't get me started on WA, okay, because I've been told to shut up about it when I first got back to Byron. Okay, we've heard enough about Western Australia. Especially the Kimberley area. It is just I can't describe it. It's indescribable. The weather there was hard and heavy, and it was a tropical savannah. It was hot as hell in the summer. It was harsh, and they handled it. It was part of their life. And yes, it was I can't describe it. I really can't. It's it's heavenly, it's just amazing place as far as the natural environment is concerned.
SPEAKER_08What about the day when it came that you had to leave? Leaving all of that, that magic and that experience.
SPEAKER_05The good thing I think about that is that I got that experience and I had been there longer than anybody else. Most of the managers only hung out for two years, that was it, they left. They couldn't handle it. And even the people after me didn't even last that long. It was hard for them because we cared for each other so much, but then again, they knew that I had to go. So they were used to that, people coming and going. Because they usually got outsiders to take managerial roles over because of nepotism. If someone is running a an organization, it's a family clan thing, you know, so they kind of like to get outsiders so there's none of that. And that's why I was there, and even the next person that came who had relatives there, that didn't last. So yeah, it was sad, but I was starting this new life. I was moving down to Calberry in my own home for the first time in my life, doing something completely different and just seeing where that took me. Because I travelled from Kananara all the way down to Perth, and I knew what was along that coast. How many thousands of kilometers is that? And Calberry struck me as a really amazing place, and I wanted to live there and experience it, so I did. And what did you do workwise or could you have a bit of time off? Well, I did to a certain extent, but it was easy to get jobs. I was working at the grocery store doing cashiering because I'd done it in the past. Then I got offered a job with real estate doing property management. And then my son went and had a son, and I became a grandmother, and I just had to come back over on the side. They were starting a station in Geraldton, an Aboriginal station. They wanted me to come and manage it. Geralton's about 180 K's away from Calberry. Somehow I was gonna manage to do it, but I said no, I've got to go back to the East Coast. So I sold my house in Calberry. I made a profit and I came back to BFM. Volunteer again. I wasn't environed for long and I worked as a real estate property manager with an old friend of mine in Suffolk Park. So I had a job and I was just around the corner from my grandson, and I just thought, I need to go away again and work. This isn't working. I'll see you soon. I'll come back. My son said to me, Come to Melbourne, Mum. I'm living in a big house, I've got a spare bedroom, it's my girlfriend's house. The rent will be really cheap. Come down here and stay if you want. Then I thought, okay, what can I do in Melbourne that has to do with radio? And I started looking for jobs, and sure enough, the National Ethnic and Multicultural Broadcasters Council, the N E M B C needed an administrator. I was 63 and they hired me because of all the experience I'd had in radio management. I didn't want to be the executive officer, they weren't looking for one. But the executive officer happened to be a guy from Nimben who used to be on Two Nim. And he remembered me from Bay FM and they hired me. So for a year I worked with ethnic and multicultural broadcasters. And we had a committee of people, one person from every state. There was management committee, president, vice president, blah blah organizing conferences and just doing admin sort of stuff, but still working with broadcasters in community radio. And found this whole other sector. I just discovered the Aboriginal sector and how big it was around the country. And now I discovered foreign language programs around the country, 150 different languages being spoken. Some of them are 24-7 Mandarin, 24-7 Arabic in Sydney and places like that. And then the other ones have different groups coming in, you know, one after another, so that when the government issues stuff and people don't really understand the English, this ethnic broadcaster can speak it in their language, so they can listen to the Greek show or they can listen to the whatever and get that information, plus their music, plus their culture. So that's a whole other segment of this country's wonderful community broadcasting system, which I really enjoyed working with.
SPEAKER_08Another branch of that as well is teaching and the community media training organization, so the CMTO, which you've only just finished up with, haven't you? Tell us about your experience with them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well then I came back to be with the kids again because the granddaughter was born. I cried tears of joy because I grew up with three brothers. I have three nephews, there was no girls, and then my son went and had a little girl. So I came back to Byron again and discovered that there was a training organization in Sydney that needed people to go around northern New South Wales and Southeast Queensland to go to radio stations to do training. Now, most of those people have to have a cert for train the trainer. I didn't need it because of my experience. So I would go from Byron to Lismore to Casino, but then I got to go to Harvey Bay, and then I got to go to Cairns, and I'd get flown up to the Tableland to do some training. Went to Lightning Ridge, Glen Innes, Tanterfield, now Buckerheads, Coughs Harbor. Now that was the best job I ever had. That was even better per hour, and I love traveling anyway, and I'd stay wherever I wanted, and I'd go for two days, Saturday and Sunday, was usually the time that stations could have training classes. And I'd meet all these people and they would pick the topics that they wanted. And they could be executive topics like media law or administration or something like that, or they could be broadcasting topics, presentation, editing, different things like that. Whatever the station needed, we had curriculum from the place in Sydney that sent up all the paperwork, and then I would just drive out to the station and spend the weekends and you know that hot pool in Lightning Ridge sure was nice out under the stars. So I get to travel around and see different places and was good.
SPEAKER_08And you would also have such a great scope of the variety and diversity of people who are involved in community radio because most of those people would also be volunteers, wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_05Yes, they were all volunteers. There would be managers, some of them could afford a manager, but in most cases it was executive committees that were running them. Some were small, some were large. It just depended on where you were. As some were full-on Christian broadcasters. I went to one in Koff's Harbor and Nambucker Heads, and even the one up in the table end in near Cairns. It was a Christian radio station. So there's that arm as well. So you got the ethnic broadcasters, you got the Aboriginal broadcasters, you got the Christians, right? They've got their whole network. It's just amazing. I have to mind my P's and Q's when I was at the Christian station. I had to go back the next weekend. So I stayed up there, went down the hill, went to some island, had a week on an island. So I got to stay out there at my own expense, no problem, because it was a really good salary. And then I came back to Cairns and then went back up to Mariba and did this following weekend. So I could work out these trips and have quality time to myself, like little holidays, and then go to work and then come back home again. And I did that for twelve years. Actively for about six, and then I moved to Mildura and did more mentoring work there online. That was the last jobs that I was doing, where I would every week talk to the first one was in Narrabrai. There was a manager there who wanted some help with fundraising ideas. So I would see her every week. What do you want to do? What are you raising the funds for? What goes on in your community? And then we'd work it out. To do so we work on ideas and then we'd have a weekly meeting with the rest of the group, all online. This is COVID hit, so we were doing stuff online after that. Uh, that was kind of what I was doing in the end of those twelve years that I worked for the CMTO.
SPEAKER_08So these jobs have come to an end. And would you say that you're retired now? Not from broadcasting, but retired as in salaries and work and all that sort of thing. Jeez, you know, I even looked at some jobs the other day.
SPEAKER_05They want a manager up in Andina or Queensland somewhere and even the any MBC executive positions open. But there's no way I want to go back to full time work. I'm gonna be seventy nine this year and I you know, the pension supports me because I live in an area where there's lots of free food because I live in an agricultural area and I grow my own, so it's like I don't really need to go to work anymore. I could have stayed with the CMTO, but even those jobs were thinning out. Where I'm living there isn't a lot of community radio stations around for me to travel to. They did send me from the northwest corner of Victoria all the way down to Weraby, which is west southwest of Melbourne. They flew me and all that sort of stuff, but it it wasn't worth going that far. But they spent the money on me because they wanted me to do it. Those kind of jobs were just kind of thinning out. The mentoring jobs were still happening, but they weren't happening very often, and I just thought I think I can quit now. I gave them twelve years of service and I started there twenty eleven. So how old was I then? Sixty-five, sixty-four?
SPEAKER_08You are a wise older woman, and you have all of this incredible experience and knowledge inside of you. You are still sharing it in some way, aren't you? Tell us what projects you're working on at the moment, which are really close to your heart.
SPEAKER_05I'm back at Bay FM even though I'm not in the studio physically. I've been asked to join the multicultural nation team. They needed someone on the fifth Tuesday of the month, which is only four times a year. And I thought I could manage that. And I thought, okay, okay, multicultural nation, what does that mean? You know, right up my alley. I live in a very multicultural area at the moment. I do have plans to come back this way, but in the meantime, I'm producing a program that with my knowledge of recording and editing and all that, but that has migrant stories. And all my stories that I've presented so far have been from people who live in my area instead of the Byronshire. Because I figure maybe the Byronshire needs to know that there's not just backpackers running around from Sweden, but there's also other people from other parts of the world that are working too hard for very little and paying thousands of dollars for migrant lawyers, agents, English tests and all this other BS that they have to go through to hopefully get permanent residency in this country. So that they can work here in this country and send the money back to their families and support the families at home. And that sometimes includes their own kids that are being looked after by grandparents. Very lucky that the person can bring their child. I knew one Chilean woman who could because she wasn't a field worker. She was an agricultural inspector with a degree in horticulture, but still made her go and take English tests and pay the lawyers and which she could do. So that's my focus now. I I want to let people know of these stories, and that's what I'm doing for Bay FM.
SPEAKER_08Does it feel like it's come full circle in some ways?
SPEAKER_05It does, doesn't it? Yeah, I guess it is. It's I got here nice and easy and now I'm I want my listener to know what's going on with other people and what they're going through to get here. And I think it's important for Australians to understand that it's not that easy for outsiders to come in. There's still some racism involved in some situations. People say, Oh, they're taking all the homes, we've gone taken all the jobs. But geez, aren't we supposed to be a global family? Aren't we supposed to be helping each other? Aren't we supposed to be making life easy for everybody, not just some people? Shouldn't we be talking to our neighbors and it's all gone individual now? You're looking at a screen instead of looking at your neighbor and talking to them. To me it's gone too individualistic in my lifetime, being that the age I am now, knowing that how it used to be, and everyone my age will understand that, you talk to your neighbors, you had that community conversations and communication, and now it seems to be like disappearing. And to me that's really sad. So if I can let the rest of the community know what these people are going through, and they're from all walks of life and what they went through. I had one guy that I talked to from Africa, he was fourteen years in a refugee camp in Uganda. From the time he was fourteen to the time he was twenty eight with his mum and dad, fending for themselves and waiting for a country to take them. He's here now and he works in disability and he drives the Subaru Liberty. I love it. And it's like he's got his mum here, he's got his beautiful wife and gorgeous children. But the tenacity that these people have, the determination for a better life is something that I feel those stories need to be told to the other ones who are just sitting back going, let's go get a beer at the pub, you know?
SPEAKER_08Because this is a wise older woman project and you are just about to turn 79 in November, how do you feel out in the world? People treating you differently because maybe you have some white streaks in your hair or anything like that, or a few extra wrinkles you somebody else might not have. What what's your first hand experience of of ageism being almost 79?
SPEAKER_05First of all, it was racism, and then it was sexism, and now it's ageism. So I've got to fight three battlefronts, right? And I always have had the skin color thing and the sexism being a woman. But I found those ones easy. This last one, and we talk about ageism all the time now. People that I look up to are people like David Attenborough, who's 94, is he? You know, and he's still working. Some of the older celebrities or important people in the world. It's like just because I'm an older woman doesn't mean I can't do things. And I had that problem with the radio station that I worked at once. I could feel it. And you know what? It's a tall poppy syndrome thing. Because I knew more than they did at this radio station, because I had so much more things. All I wanted to do was help them, train them. I had the experience, I wanted to share it. But it was always like, Oh, she's a woman, she's an old lady, we'll just ignore her. So yes, I have experienced all three. But the more I experience it, the more I like fighting back. I'm like, I'll show you, you bugger. I'll show you. You think I'm useless? I'll show you that I'm not. So I don't know if it's a Mexican Italian in me, the Yank in me, I don't know what it is, but I don't let anybody put me down or ignore me. Because if they don't answer my email, I'll write again and again and again until I get an answer. Oh, did you get my email that I sent you last week? It was about such and such. Oh hi, I haven't heard back from you. It's been over a week now. Did you get my I'm sorry, I'm a pain in the ass.
SPEAKER_08No, you're not. And it's part of the reason that you're chosen as one of these wise older women. I see you as somebody that is still so full of so much. It's infectious. Your energy and your drive, whatever it is that's driven you to be where you're at now, is very appealing, I think. And you know, if more younger people were surrounded by older women who were still working, then maybe they wouldn't be wanting to try to remain youthful forever because that's just not a reality, is it?
SPEAKER_05It's sad. It really is sad. Now I've got teenage granddaughter, and you know, we have our little moments. We just finished up a week together, and I said to her this morning, okay, it's all over now. You ready to forget about me for a while like I am you, you know? I said, one day you're gonna say, Granny said this one time, and she was right. She goes, No, I'm not. I said, you wait. I said, if you get my age, not only will you remember this, you will be very lucky to even get this old, because there's a lot of people dying a lot younger than me. So I consider luck a big part of aging, being able to still see a beautiful day like today. You know, how lucky am I? So I let her know that one day she will realize it when she's older and wiser.
SPEAKER_08A heartfelt thank you to Nancy Jo for her decades of service and her unwavering belief in the power of community radio. Her story is a testament to what one woman can build when she leads with purpose. These stories remind us of the depth, resilience, and wisdom carried by women aged 55 to 85. Women whose lived experience enriches our communities and strengthens the cultural fabric of this country. Join us for the next episode as we continue honouring the voices, insights, and life journeys of extraordinary women. This is a Plantation Studios production, executive producer Rasella Torres, and music from Purple Planet Music.
SPEAKER_02We are drenched in ageism in our culture, drenched in it. I believe we are in an extraordinarily ageist culture. Racism is being talked about, sexism is being talked about, we haven't even begun to talk about ageism.
SPEAKER_06So I very definitely noticed this becoming invisible. It is really something that we should try to understand as this sign of a culture that is rejecting the most important things in life.
SPEAKER_07So I sometimes notice that judgment of like you're just an old lady, but then I'm a lot pushier than I used to be. So I don't mind kind of playing the old lady card. I think you just gotta work it so you have fun with it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I haven't felt discriminated. Maybe it's been sometimes dismissed, but I think it's been more undervaluing, and I have undervalued myself.
SPEAKER_05The more I experience it, the more I like fighting back. And I'll show you your bugger. I'll show you. You think I'm useless? I'll show you that I'm not. I don't know if it's a Mexican-Italian in me, the Yank in me, I don't know what it is, but I don't let anybody put me down or ignore me.
SPEAKER_04When we let go and just acknowledge the stage of life we're at, and keep shining in the knowledge that we're in this new phase of beauty, and that it doesn't matter what age you are, things are beautiful in you, and just keep cultivating every day the beauty of who you are, that never changes.