Enchanted and Exhausted
Enchanted & Exhausted is the podcast where romantasy obsession meets real-life motherhood. Join Kayla and Sam each week as they dive into the latest BookTok favorites, fantasy worlds, unforgettable characters, and all the books keeping them up way too late. From spoiler-free recommendations and monthly book club picks to author interviews and conversations with indie bookstore owners, there's always another chapter to explore.
Between the dragons, morally gray book boyfriends, and overflowing TBRs, you'll also find honest conversations about motherhood, creativity, small businesses, and navigating the beautiful chaos of everyday life.
Whether you're here for the books, the laughs, or the reminder that you're not the only one reading "just one more chapter" at 2 a.m., grab your favorite drink, get cozy, and join us.
New episodes every week wherever you get your podcasts, with full video episodes available on YouTube.
✨ Because life is enchanting... and exhausting.
Enchanted and Exhausted
Episode 3: Dragons, Signets & Secrets: Diving Into Fourth Wing
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🐉 Mom Life, Unhinged Chaos & a Fourth Wing Deep Dive — Part One
This week on Enchanted & Exhausted, Sam and Kayla start with the absolute CHAOS that is mom life and all the unhinged moments from our week… and then we head straight to Basgiath. ⚔️🐉
We’re diving DEEP into Fourth Wing and the Empyrean Series and putting our theories on the record.
✨ Who we think will appear in the new Threshing Day book
✨ Our theories about “the other brother” 👀
✨ Venin, venin, and MORE venin
✨ Dragons, riders, bonds & signets
✨ The theories we’re convinced Rebecca Yarros has been leaving clues for
✨ And plenty of completely unhinged predictions that could either age beautifully… or terribly. 😂
⚠️ SPOILER WARNING: This episode discusses the Empyrean Series, so proceed accordingly!
And apparently we had WAY too much to say, because this episode had to be split into TWO PARTS.
🎧 Listen to Enchanted & Exhausted on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and wherever you get your podcasts, or watch the video podcast on YouTube.
🔥 Part Two drops August 20! If you’re listening after August 20, don’t stop now—jump straight into Part Two and keep the deep dive going.
Now tell us: What is your most unhinged Fourth Wing theory?! 🐉⚔️
#FourthWing #EmpyreanSeries #BookTok #Romantasy #EnchantedAndExhausted
Welcome to Enchanted and Exhausted, the podcast where we find enchantment among everyday chaos. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Enchanted and Exhausted. I'm Sam. And I'm Kayla. And we're just two moms who are trying to survive motherhood one chapter at a time.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Before we jump into today's episode, we do want to just take a minute and thank every comment, share, like, message, um, show of excitement support that you guys have given us. We would not be able to do this without y'all. And um, we just seriously appreciate every single one of you. Um, today's gonna be a little different. Hosting, we're gonna do the mom part first and spend some time catching up because mom life has just been mom life in lately, and then we will hop into the book part of the episode.
SPEAKER_01Well, because also with our book part, there's a chance, depending on how long this goes, we might have to split this up into two parts.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there might be a part two for this episode.
SPEAKER_01We'll see. Yeah, so we didn't want to get lost in our book talk and um not go through spoiler alert, spoiler alert, spoiler alert.
SPEAKER_00If you have not read and you are going to read fourth wing, pause this and come back to it. Pause it after the mom part and come back to it after you have read fourth wing because there are going to be some serious spoilers. But anyway, how has your week been with children?
SPEAKER_01So we are currently down from six kids to three, and this happens every so often because our two older kids will go to their mom's house, and then um my eight-year-old will go to his grandparents' house, and so he's been at their house since Sunday night afternoon, and we'll be there until tomorrow morning. Um well, actually, I don't know morning, but sometime tomorrow, and we get the other two kids tomorrow. So it's gonna be back to full-blown chaos tomorrow. But I I am just I want to kind of brag about my little five-year-old right now, which he will be six next month. And he's not little, I should say that too. He's not he's taller than his eight-year-old brother. Everyone's always asked me if they're twins because he's always been like right there with him with his height and stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he's in a size eight, and he's not an overweight kid, he's tall and solid. He it's just his genetics. He has a lot of Scottish and Viking and Irish in him. Um from both me and my husband, we're both very heavy Scottish, and he just gets he just that's where he gets it. My husband has a lot of tallness on his side. My family has a lot of bruteness, and he got the best of both worlds. So he is always been that kid that because he looks older than he is, we kind of get uh treated more like he's older than he is. And we gotta constantly remind ourselves he's five. He just finished kindergarten, you know, like he's he's he's not like his older siblings, and so we we've been trying a lot more to give him more more grace and patience. And just the last couple of days, um I really noticed starting Sunday morning. I don't know what the shift was, but there is a shift with him where he started to take responsibility for so many things. And like it was like getting ready for church. He just I don't know, he just he just came up to me and he's like, Mom, I just need help buttoning my shirt, you know, and they're button-down shirts, and five-year-olds can't do that very well. But he was just like how he was talking to me, he's like, Oh, this happened, but I went ahead and did this. Like, he took care of it without being told to take care of it. And some of my older kids don't do that. We have a cat right now who's been she eats plastic and throws it up, and so like I'll be in the room. This is this is what happened Sunday morning, and made me really realize what was going on and and how my five-year-old was acting compared to my 12-year-old, who I'm in my room getting ready for church in the morning. We have church at 9 a.m. So, you know, we have to get up early, get everyone ready, and I have to um, I was getting my girls ready before I get ready myself. And so I'm in my room and my husband before we do. Yeah, my husband's in the shower, I'm getting the girls ready, you know. Like, so it's we're we're in the midst of things. It's not like us adults are available to stop what we're doing. And my 12-year-old comes and knocks on the door and Luna threw up again. Clean it up. Like, why do you have to report this? Just take initiative, right? And we try really hard to stress that on our older kids because I don't want to be holding their hands their whole life. We try really hard to push to think for yourselves, think independently. You know, and she kind of did that all day though, too. So it was I knew she didn't want to, but we're like, you find it, you clean it up. Like if I find it, I clean it up. Like, that's just what happens, right? Yeah, and so that's what my little five-year-old was doing is he was like, Oh, I saw Luna, you know, spit up here, and I I went ahead and he gets this brush and the spray and he scrubs the carpet, and like you know how my husband taught him how to do it. And he was also like, Oh, Colby wanted this, so I went ahead and got it for her. And it's not like he's trying to brag about it, but it's more of he's letting me know, don't worry, mom, I've taken care of things. Like that's the attitude he comes with, and he was doing that all day, even like after church, we came home. I always lay down with the girls, something I can't even remember what happened, but oh, Colby woke up in one of the iPad and I went ahead and got it for her and turned it on for her. Um, oh, the putting incident. The pudding incident, but that was yesterday. So that was yesterday was Monday, and that was yesterday. I came home from the gym. My husband was laying down with the baby. He was up with Colby, and I came home, and he's like, he's in the hallway with her, and he I opened the door and he's like, Mom, Colby got two pudding cups and got it everywhere, wiped it all over the walls and stuff. And he's like, I've already already wiped up the walls by the time I got home. And he was in the process of getting Colby into the bathroom to wash her hands. And so I was just like, I don't know, I was just like super amazed with him. That it's just like, and I told him that too. And I'm like, this, I'm so thank you for taking charge on this, Austin. Like, you shouldn't have had to do this, you know. I get things happen, and because like even the night before, I don't know what's going on with my little two-year-old. She's getting into everything. The night before, we're playing Monopoly at our table, and she dumped out an entire bottle of shampoo, carpet shampoo concentrate. I don't know why they don't have the child safety caps on those things, but they don't. And all of a sudden, we we I heard Austin he went into the kitchen, he was on the iPad on the couch. We're here at the table playing the game, and then he goes into the kitchen and he's like, Oh my gosh. And then it hit me, and like, I'm smelling a chemical smell. And that like it was him like starting it, and he first thing he did put the iPad down and grabbed his sisters and pulled them out of the kitchen, and like just things like he didn't have to be told, it stood there because I've I've even seen my older kids see like their siblings fall and they just look at him and we're like, pick them up, like yeah, come on, you know. So I'm very proud of my little five-year-old right now. He seems granted, it could only last a couple of days, and then he's gonna go back to his crazy ADHD five-year-oldness, which that's okay, that's how he is, but it's just kind of really blown me away how he's kind of stepped up, and I don't know where it came from, but it's really adorable and cute, and I absolutely love it. Anyway, sorry, little tangent, but it was kind of a proud mama moment for me.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm all proud of our kids. Like, we all deserve to be proud of our kids and brag about our kids. Um, kid-wise, the week was pretty good. I think we finally have the um, I want to say like the Georgia washed out of them, but like the Georgia washed out of them.
SPEAKER_01Is freaking still being said a lot?
SPEAKER_00Not as much. Um and like we are back to we get up in the morning, we eat breakfast, we do a little bit of our because we uh we we're homeschooling the boys, so we do a little bit of like our phonics and our letters and whatever for the day.
SPEAKER_01Because AJ's only four, so like we're not we make our kids read for an hour every day, and we use the Epic app. Yeah, and then he's especially for the ones who can't read because they'll get read too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so he has a couple of library books, so we read our library books in the morning, and so we're finally back to like no tantrum and attitude being thrown about not turning the TV on immediately because as much as I love my in-laws when they go over there, they just have like my kids have free reign, they watch as much TV as they want, which the TV is usually always on for background noise, but I don't let them have like you can't watch YouTube until daddy gets home type thing because they're you're not allowed to have free reign of YouTube because I'm not paying attention. I'm probably doing something else working on Twitter. We are the same way with YouTube. Yeah, we're the same way with YouTube. I don't know, like so many horror stories of YouTube, and I'm like, no, you can watch when your dad gets home. Like that is.
SPEAKER_01I've actually seen some weird things. Luckily, it hasn't been anything like super bad on YouTube, but just weird, like it's the videos that pop up after the ones they watch. The ones I know are okay, and then it's the ones that pop up after. And I've seen like really weird like animations of stuff, or like they like to watch um like Roblox videos, people playing Roblox, and there's creepy, like creepy like Peppa Pig animation stuff too, where they make them all like evil, and I'm just like, no, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So they're not allowed to have free reign of YouTube. Um and yesterday my husband was home all day. Like he got home, he left for work at like probably like 5.15, and he got home at 8.30 because they had a thing happen at work and whatever. And so that like threw our whole schedule off for the day, but they handled it really well. I mean, we went to a indoor play place, it's literally like a trampoline park, not so much trampoline park, it's like small kids, like it's really good for like like seven and under. She's got a bounce house in there, she has a whole bunch of yeah.
SPEAKER_01We have a place like that that's like full of bounce houses.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so she's got one big bounce house, she's got a smaller one for like the little ones for the little babies, and then there's just a whole bunch of like hands-on play stuff, like she's got the like the little play kitchens and all of that set up, and there's like a whole Paw Patrol station, and AJ is obsessed with Paw Patrol, so of course he loved that. But we were there for like two and a half hours, and of course, they didn't want to leave, so there was a tantrum whenever we left, and I called my husband, and I was like, Hey, it's like five blocks from my house. I was like, Hey, come get your kid, because he doesn't want to leave. So, but we I mean, other than that, we had a good week. Um, Lucas is trying to potty train himself, I think, which I'm really excited about because he sees Big Brother. He's gonna be when they're ready, and he's like trying to take his diaper off and take his pants off. And I was like, all right, well, I guess it's time to break out the little potty again. Um, so I'm really hoping that we'll be potty trained in the next like few weeks. Because AJ we AJ didn't potty train until he was like two and a half.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I really want to work with my daughter. She's just over two and a half, but we haven't really pushed her because she's had some um bowel movement issues, inconsistencies that we've had to get her blood tested for and stuff, making sure she's okay. So we're kind of waiting for all of that to get settled first because she has a really hard time having a bowel movement unless we give her like mirror lax on the daily. If not, then she's like constantly having problems and trying to go to the bathroom. I mean she'll she's so funny, she gets in her squatting position. But it's all day, and it's like changing like 10 to 15 diapers of hers because it's always just like a little bit. And I'm like, we can't potty train her like this. There's gonna be messes all over the house because she feels like she's gonna have to go to the bathroom constantly. So we're working on getting her figured out first with that before we really push her to to potty train because it's like that's not fair to treat her to potty train, but then she has a problem going to the bathroom. Like that's yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, most unhinged thing your kid did this week or your kids did this week.
SPEAKER_01Like honestly, the pudding cups right now is top of the list. That and the floor cleaner. Um, let me double check, let me think. Um, we went camping over the weekend for just one night, too, and my husband understands why. Now I refuse to go camping for a week this summer. He's like, we plan a camping trip. And I was like, I love camping. I was like, um, we're gonna do that next summer. We have a, you know, she's gonna be one on Saturday. It's gonna be one on Saturday. She started walking too. I know. She started walking on the 23rd. I was like, but um, I told him, I was like, no, we are not gonna go camping with a under one year old, yeah, and a two-year-old, because I was like, number one, she's not walking yet. We're gonna have to carry her everywhere. And that girl is over 20 pounds. She's a big, like, she's in 18 to 2T clothes. And I'm like, and that's gonna be me. Because my husband's gonna be able to handle the older kids better than me. They listen to him better. That's just how things go. I'm like, I am going to have to be holding her constantly. If not, then she's down getting extremely filthy, dirty, constantly in that dirt, you know? And that doesn't bother me, but when you're doing it for four or five days out of the week, it's like I can't, we have to bathe her every single day. Like, you know, it's like that's just it's it's it's hard to do that when you're showering constantly, right? Or camping the whole time. So we went, we just it wasn't, it was like 20 minutes from our house. Our church put on this barbecue night and said, if anyone wants to camp out, they can. It's just it's owned by our church, it's a property owned by our church and stuff. So um, we did one night. I didn't sleep. Number one, we forgot to go grab our king mattress out of our storage unit on our way there, so we had a twin.
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_01And my husband let me have it with the baby, but she moves around like crazy and uses my pillow as a body pillow. So she's like up here when she sleeps at night. And um I was freezing cold, even though I was like I was just cold. I have sweater on, everything. I was still just cold. Um I didn't sleep because of that. I also had to pee, but I was afraid to get up because I was worried about her. I did try to like move her down to where my husband was to go to the bathroom, and she woke up and cried, so I had to like snuggle her again. And I didn't want to wake everyone else up around us, so I held that for like four hours.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Thankfully, you didn't get like a bladder infection.
SPEAKER_01Um, and she so finally around 4 30, I was like, I can't hold, I gotta go to the bathroom. And so I didn't sleep because I had to go to the bathroom. I was freezing cold and I was worried about her falling off of the air mattress. And then 4 30 going to the bathroom, she woke up ready to party. Woke everyone else up in the tent. So then we have my two-year-old and my baby just hanging out with us, and my poor 12. We put the boys in their own tent. We were like, there's no way those. Oh my gosh, that would have been terrible. So the boys had their own tent, so it was just our 12-year-old, us two, and the two girls, and um, yep, she she loves to um go back and forth between me and dad on the bed, so she loved that sister was there too, and she was going back between all three of us, just ah, and she was up the whole time until we left. So I got two naps that day. But um, yeah, so that I don't really remember what your question was, but I was like, oh sorry, unhinged, unhinged things. Um that was kind of unhinged though, no sleeping. Yeah, was very that's where I was going with that. No sleep.
SPEAKER_00The road that we live on, um, the police department uses it as a cut-through road all the time. Because we're to get to places quickly, yeah, because it's like a like we live kind of on like a circle drive. Um, but it's really easy to get from like one of the main roads in our little city to the next main road. So they use it because it comes out like right in front of the school, especially during school. They'll use it to go do like um like when school gets out, they'll sit and catch people speeding through the school zones or on their phones or whatever. And I'm all for that. Like, you should be able to do that. Oh, me too. You should be able to do that. I wish they did that at our school.
SPEAKER_01So I can't stand some of those parents how they drive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no. We live on a curve, like our house is on the curve, and AJ has no shame. AJ was AJ was taught how to potty, like we potty trained him when we lived out at my parents' house on a farm. So he just peased wherever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And when we moved into the house, we told him you can pee in the front yard, but you have to face the house, like pee in the bushes, pee on the trash can.
SPEAKER_01Does he still pull his pants down all the way though? Because my boys do that.
SPEAKER_00It's he's never been a pants to the floor kind of guy. He like pulls it, pulls him down just enough to get it out. And so the day I have to get Lucas out of the car, and I turn around and AJ is peeing in the front yard, facing the road, like almost to the curb, facing the road. And the next thing I know, here comes two New Orleans police officers just driving by. And I'm like, oh my god, today is the day that they're gonna be like, ma'am, you can't let your kid pee like that, facing the road. Their parents, hopefully, they know. They just kept going. They just kept going. I was like, well, if anything, it made them laugh. Okay. Here's your entertainment for the day. My four and a half-year-old does not like to pee inside, he only likes to pee outside. That's my eight-year-old.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, my eight-year-old has zero shame. And same thing, my parents have five acres out in the middle of nowhere that when we're out there, they see all their boy cousins. It's like we actually make a joke, it's not a McMartin get together unless there's nudity because the boys always just pee anywhere they want, and there's so many boy cousins. Yeah, and um, and that that happened when we were camping. There's a bathroom like 20 feet away, and my eight-year-old, I see him standing by a tree, starting to like get his pants undone. And I'm like, what are you doing? Go to the bathroom, and he's like, No, I'll be all right. No, you go to the bathroom. Don't hold it and wait for me not to look so you can just be where you want to, because that's what he was gonna do. And he comes out of the shower, like he wants to shower with the bathroom door open because he thinks it's funny when like the girls will play peekaboo with him with the shower curtain, or he'll just we're like, Jameson, you're eight years old now. You need to have a little bit more modesty. Yeah, you can't be doing this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. AJ runs to the house, he'll get out of the shower. So we have a heater. Our kids are spoiled. We have a heater in the bathroom, and whenever they go take a shower, we turn the heater on so that way they don't they They're cold when they get out. And he'll get out and he'll put his little towel on. And then he'll run to the house and he will go and jump on my husband naked. And my husband's like, ew, ew, ew, it's touching me. At least he's clean. I'm like, hey, he's clean and he loves you.
SPEAKER_01See, that kind of stuff doesn't bother me that much, but and I feel like if I had a boy house, I wouldn't probably be so strict when it comes to like have a little modesty. Yeah. But because we have girls, it's like you have older sisters and younger sisters, you know, like there needs to be some sort of all right.
SPEAKER_00Before Teresa's there. Before we get into the big part of the episode, um, enough about the tiny terrorist. Um what are you reading right now? What are you currently reading?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So um in preparation for today's episode, I, of course, I did finish all of the Empyrean series. Um and I've actually been going back, like I went and listened to the end, the very end of Onyx Storm again, just to kind of like make sure I'm catching as much as I can. And like I start to think of theories, and I'm like, well, wait, I think something was said then. So I've been not necessarily like solidly reading a book, but more of doing a lot of research um for that. But then I also um I've been working on our uh book club read, which is kissed by the gods, and I got I don't know if it's necessarily halfway. I got to I I don't know if it's part two, but it's like let me pull up the chapters here in my thing because I can do that real quick. Um so part one is the grounded, and then there's part two is the winged, and there's a part three is the gifted, and there's a part four, the dead. Okay, so I got to part two, the winged, and I decided to um go back and listen to it again because not the whole thing. I remember a lot of the beginning of the book and I remember or beginning of part one, and I remember the end of part one, but the middle part I zoned out a lot. And I'm going back and kind of listening to what I don't remember, and I'm glad I did because it is one of those things where you know one of the characters is more prevalent towards the end of part one, and then you see where he comes in and part when you're like, Oh, that makes sense now. Like it's it's one of those things, so it's like even if you I think it would be good if you almost because I know you told me you had a hard time kind of focusing too. I would say get through part one and then go back to like chapter, did I start? I think back on chapter six or seven, when she um first meets Riot. Okay, and um and gets introduced to all of that world. So that's yeah. So I'd say, and then go back and finish and start back at part two because there's so much politics and stuff that they go over, but at the by the end of part one, you have a more firm understanding of what's going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So then going back, you're like, oh, okay. It it's like it's just like when you read Fourth Wing and you're like they start throwing out all these names and the dragons and all those things, and you have to almost read it again to be like, oh, now I know who that is. Oh, now I know who that is. And so it's like it's nice that they broke it up into these parts because then you can go yeah back like that. And so um working on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. All right, um, current reads, I am oh my god. Okay, I'm still trying to finish yesteryear.
SPEAKER_01Didn't you say you had like a hundred pages?
SPEAKER_00Yes, but I was trying to figure out who Ailen Galathenius was. I literally have not been able to focus on anything else besides finishing Crown of Midnight.
SPEAKER_01Wait till you read Prescent City and you learn about Lydia.
SPEAKER_00I went from chapter that name just irritates me right now.
SPEAKER_01I know, but it's a good character anyway.
SPEAKER_00I went from chapter like 12 to finishing the book with 56 chapters in like three days. Because it just finally like pulled me in.
SPEAKER_01Um and now you're getting to the really good stuff too.
SPEAKER_00Now I have to pause and I have to read Kiss by the Gods.
SPEAKER_01I think you should just finish it and then do Kiss by the Gods.
SPEAKER_00Well, I want to have Kiss by the Gods done for this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but we have a couple more episodes before we need to finish wrapping up our, especially if this becomes a two-parter.
SPEAKER_00This is true. This is true. I might do that. I might do that. I don't know if I'm gonna get through Kingdom of Ash, though, because I'm looking at it on my bookshelf right now and I'm like, Jesus, Jesus Christ. I listened to it. That's what I did with um Crown of Midnight. I listened to most of it. Um, but yeah, I will finish yesteryear this week. What else maybe? Oh, I need to finish degradation too.
SPEAKER_01What's that one?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's like a very, very dark, very dark.
SPEAKER_01Oh, we talked about that. That's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, six out of five on the darkness scale. Would not recommend unless I know your mental status, like your mental health is is good. And then I did get the Did I show you the new book I got?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. You've shown me a lot of different new ones you've gotten.
SPEAKER_00I got a new sprayed edge. I got a new sprayed edge. Hold on. The perfect man.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I've heard of that one.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, it's so good. I read it on Kindle and then I texted Amy and I was like, I need this collector's edition. Nice, perfect, and then I got I ordered Storm Side, haven't read starside yet.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Wait, wait, which one's what's the spine of that one though? Let me see it because they're all different. Let me grab mine.
SPEAKER_00Yours is red, mine is not red.
SPEAKER_01Mine's also swords.
SPEAKER_00Look, yeah, mine is lightning and a dragon.
SPEAKER_01Something else also um I saw the author do was that in the map she highlighted different spots for different editions. So, what spots highlighted for yours?
SPEAKER_00Mine's not colored. Mine has no color on it. Oh, interesting. It's just black, and then there's a black.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I like your front. This is my front. I like your front. I like the red. That's a target edition, though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what I'm reading right now. Is yesterday. I'm gonna finish yesteryear. I'm gonna start, I'm gonna restart Kiss by the Gods. Um, we've talked about kids, we've talked about books. Now it is time to become completely delusional and grab your tinfoil hats because we're talking all the most unhinged wild fourth wing theories that we can come up with ourselves. That we can research in our reasonable amount of time.
SPEAKER_01And this is much more.
SPEAKER_00Which is why there might be a part two.
SPEAKER_01So we will take a quick little intermission. Go grab your favorite drink, your notebook, whatever you need to do to take your own notes on this and be able to challenge us, challenge us in the comments on these theories and throw in your own ideas. We want to hear it. So, quick little intermission. We will be um right back. So get ready.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yep, be back. All right, welcome back. Before we can can before we continue, again, official spoiler warning. We're discussing the first three books that have been released. Not book four, aka Threshing Day, and book four. So if you haven't finished reading And apparently a graphic novel, too. Yeah. If you haven't finished reading Fourth Wing Ironflame and Onyx Storm, pause the episode, go read it, come back, watch it whenever you're done.
SPEAKER_01Unless you want the spoilers.
SPEAKER_00Unless you want the spoilers, and you're unless you're here for the spoilers.
SPEAKER_01So which not that I'm saying I encourage it, but at the same time, I feel like knowing some of these theories and then reading it, you're like, oh, there's that theory. You might pay attention a different way than you would reading it for the first time, too.
SPEAKER_00But like taking the test with the study guide.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but then you will also get a lot of shockers happen. At least read fourth wing completely because what happens about. Well, and I feel like at the end of that book is the biggest, one of the biggest emotional damaging moments of this entire series.
SPEAKER_00Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01And so to not have that be given away to you, at least have read Fourth Wing all the way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All right, hot take one, and I know this has been confirmed, but people still debate it online so much. Um, Violet's Signet is not lightning. That is just how her power manifests is with lightning. Um, her actual power, and there's so many, there's so many like instances in the books themselves of this being true, but her actual power and her actual segment is that she channels raw power herself, power itself, like she it is just pure unfiltered power.
SPEAKER_01And that's how Rebecca Yarros even um describes it. We found a clip of her doing an interview. Yep, and she says it is power, and how she um is honing it with lightning is for her to practice being able to aim and zero in on her power.
SPEAKER_00Yep, but she never seems fully in control, especially whenever she first manifests. She never seems fully in control.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna be taking more notes, by the way. I suggest she is she is the thing is when the other books come out, you know we're gonna come back to all this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she is constantly described as having too much power. Um, so much power that, like, how can her frail little body house this much power? Um, and then her, I don't know if anybody else has noticed this, but her friend, like all of her friends and her friend group have been described as like the strongest riders they've seen in years. And I think it is unit. I think it's because her power, like her friends and her um like quest squad, the whole squad, I think it's because she amplifies everybody else's power.
SPEAKER_01You know, it makes me think about um like I'm really curious about Dane because when Sloane siphons from him, she says no one should have this much power. That's it. And he says, Well, it's a good thing I do. And I don't know if it's because Violet is right there next to him, you know, they're saving Mira's life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or does Dane have that's why I want to know Dane's story.
SPEAKER_00I think that we don't know.
SPEAKER_01I think I do too. It's same here because also thinking of his first signet, I'm almost wondering if he has a second signet. So I think his first signet um is it's the retrocognition. Thank you. I'm like, it's not pre-cog, that's not what it is. Yes, retrocog. So he and like how Violet constantly goes through the story. Like, oh, your signets reflect who you truly are, and he wants to know secrets and look at his dad.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Who's his dad? This secret hidden thing that no one realizes how truly evil he is.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01So I think that's where that stems from.
SPEAKER_00Um, so back to Violet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sorry. See, I'm gonna do that. I think that it reflected Violet's power. She could be also powering Dane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I also think that her segment being pure power is why she can channel when they go to the aisles.
SPEAKER_01I also heard this is that it's also how And Darna channels.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Andarna channels from the sky, not from the earth.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01And so that is why also, and that they have a huge theory that that's going to be a huge reason or how they're able to cure Zaydan, or at least the Venom, in a sense, is that they're all channeling from the wrong source to begin with.
SPEAKER_00So um, Violet Signet theory number one Violet Signet isn't lightning, she just harnesses full power.
SPEAKER_01She doesn't know that yet, though.
SPEAKER_00No, she still thinks that it's lightning.
SPEAKER_01And everything according to Rebecca Yarros, she's only reached 10% of her powers ability.
SPEAKER_00That's in an interview. 85% of her lightning power ability. It's 10% of the dream walking.
SPEAKER_01I I just watched it this morning. Did I it's 85%? Hold on, let me see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, okay. So you were right. My bad. So but still, I know they did talk about Zadens. Zaden's still only at 50%, which yeah, they do show that towards the end of Aric Storm, he is improving his intensive side. Okay, anyways, keep going.
SPEAKER_00All right, so that is um theory number one. I'm gonna skip theory number two because we both talk about that for right now. Um, theory number three, Arik is the brother. Arik is the new brother at the end of Onyx Storm.
SPEAKER_01I agree with you after just listening to it.
SPEAKER_00I do it it can't be Dane because of where he's at on the battlefield. Somebody went and drew like a map of where everybody was at on the battlefield.
SPEAKER_01Well, when they what when they go into battle, because I just read it, it was like super fresh in my mind. When they go into battle, number one, the first years are not supposed to be there. Number two, the first thing Violet sees is Aric flying away. Yep.
SPEAKER_00So he's not physically on the battlefield, and if we think about it, so Aryx Signet is true, like it's not battle precog like Melgren. It is true precog.
SPEAKER_01Like he can't see the future of everything, and he's not limited by the the um marked ones. By the marked ones or anything like that, because because of Coda. Coda is affected fully from Melgren from that.
SPEAKER_00I think that part of that is also because of the dragons. I think that is why he's the only other one.
SPEAKER_01What is his dragon's name? It's in the list, and his only other, he's the only other one. Um, so Molvik.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Mulvik.
SPEAKER_01Mulvik, and it means praised sun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I think that first of all, this also goes into the dragons are lying about everything.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think you see that that's what right underneath Aryx's name is Professor Carr and his dragon's name of Brugan. Brugen? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Means um so if you don't, if if you don't know this, all of the dragons' names are Gaelic, and they we we have found all of the translations.
SPEAKER_01Not all that's available. Because if you go down to the bottom of the list, um Jason and Leopold. We don't know the meaning of the Irids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And what I thought was interesting too is the two other bonded dragons that they talk about who's been bonded for years and years and years, and that's why they can communicate so far apart from each other. We don't know their writer, their signets, their color. We don't know anything but their names.
SPEAKER_00I'm also interested about bade meaning herd.
SPEAKER_01I know. I have some I have so many Jack Barlow theories. So I have so many. And I was talking about we'll we'll get into that.
SPEAKER_00So Mulvik Mulvik gave pre-cog to Arik for a specific reason, and I think it's because that at the end of the day, Arik knew what was happening because Zaydan says, How could he do this? He's watched me struggle with this for the last five months, but Arik has known for a lot longer that five months would be when his signet manifested.
SPEAKER_01I also think that um if it is Arik, he knew he had to go down this path.
SPEAKER_00I think he knew what was gonna happen. He knew Arik knew that Zaydan knew because Zaydan is in a form of intensic. So Arik knew that Zaydan knew that he that Arik knew. Um he knew what was gonna happen at Drayfus. He knew what was gonna happen at the battle. He knew he was going to have to be the one to turn and then be the one.
SPEAKER_01He also knew he had to be the one to go on the trip, not Haldin.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Well, Holden would have gotten everybody killed.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but here's something also interesting to think about when it comes to the signets of Venon and the signets of the writers, they all have there's a balance.
SPEAKER_00There's a balance.
SPEAKER_01So there's also that where it's like, is Arik the balance for Melgren? Is um, and I even I even think about too the sage. How does the sage come to Zaydan? Think about it. I don't know, I need to reread it again. In his dreams. Violet's a dream. So is this so yeah, so is the sage that counter because even um I have more, we're gonna get into this too, but um uh how do you say her name? The Theophany. She makes a comment. I don't know if you remember this, but um, this is why I'm so glad I reread all of these so fresh in my mind. She makes a comment to Violet that says, When your mother was your age, she knew she couldn't be compared to me. Because she's theophany is Lilith's their that's their equal. They're they're they're opposite. Yeah, they're yeah, they're balanced there. So it also makes me wonder how old is Theophany?
SPEAKER_00That's what I was gonna say is how old is Theophany? Because she had to have been for Lilith to be her counter, she has to be older than Violet's mom.
SPEAKER_01And knowing, knowing at Violet's age, she couldn't be compared to Theophany, which Violet's 21. And so that means her mom is, of course, like doubled plus that because she has that was before she ever even had Brennan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So Theophany was already mastered in her storm weather or her storm wielding before when she was when Lilith was 21.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't Theophany say something about your mother knew that she didn't Couldn't compete with me, that's why she hid behind the walls of the cat of the college.
SPEAKER_01Not exactly behind the college, but I just said that she couldn't compete with me at your age. I do remember her saying that at your age. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um that is my second theory is that Arik is the brother. I will die on the bottom.
SPEAKER_01But Theophany is dead, isn't she?
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01She killed, killed her.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah. Um, Arik is the second brother, it's not Riddick, it's not Bodhi, it's not Sawyer, it's not Garrick, it is Arik.
SPEAKER_01Because I feel like Zaydon wouldn't be as surprised if he saw Bodhi and stuff, but also knowing how much Arik hates him because he killed his brother. Yep. Um, I feel like it was way more of a surprise. And also because like he was the last one who would be here because he's royalty, he's he's all of those things.
SPEAKER_00Um, next theory the dragons are lying. I'm gonna agree with um Jack Barlow. The dragons are lying about everything, they're lying about how much they know, they're lying about, and the biggest one is that they're lying about their ages.
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't even just say their ages, but there's actually um, it's one of the parts I've marked in the book, so I was gonna come back to, but Zaydan even says the records aren't correct, and it's the dragons that are controlling that because it's said that Segaal is 50 years younger than Terran, and that Terran is 100, around 100. He's over a hundred. They know he's at least a hundred.
SPEAKER_00And we know for a fact that Segael bonded Zaydan's grandfather and great grandfather. Bonded somebody that would make her older than 50.
SPEAKER_01That's true. Well, they don't know Taryn's exact age, they know he's over a hundred, so he could be like 180.
SPEAKER_00That's what I'm saying, they're lying about their ages. Yeah, so he said, um Gail has had too many writers to match her to match her age. It doesn't make sense. How many especially she has had Zaydan? She has had Zaden. I think it's Zaydan's, it's either his greatest. Yeah, she said not my grandfather.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it helps the writer. Uh it helps uh the writer of record was thought to be my great uncle, not my grandfather.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So on record it is Zaiden's great uncle, but actuality it is his grandfather.
SPEAKER_01Who takes the records when the names are it's a scribe.
SPEAKER_00I forget which scribe it is, but it's a scribe. Because um, and that's something else to that's something else to really think about as you this entire series is and it says right in the front.
SPEAKER_01I want to see, I meant to look at this to see if it's the same in every book.
SPEAKER_00Um the first chapter says this has been faithfully transcribed.
SPEAKER_01Um Justinia just modern language by Justinia Nealwart. Does it say that same way as far as faithfully? Because this is it makes me it makes me question. I have all three of them right here. It makes me question Justinia, honestly. All events are true and names have been preserved to honor the courage of those who have fallen. Yeah, so it says the same thing in part in one, two, and then three. Um but here's my thing, it it really makes me question Justinia because what do they constantly start to talk about? Or at least um start to realize scribes hold all the power. Scribes are the one that tells the history, warps it how they want it to be warped. And so it makes you wonder is Jacenia a part of that as well? And we just don't know that yet because we trust Violet. But here's the thing, Jacenia is writing this story. So of course she's going to make her look perfect and a part of the crew. You know, because she's she wants she wants to be trusted since she's the one writing this story.
SPEAKER_00Dragons are lying about everything, they're lying about who they're right who their past writers are and have been.
SPEAKER_01They all know about the venom because even even once they start to come out about that, they um all those people double checked with their dragons. They're like, what the heck? Like, this is true. Yes, yes, they know so much more.
SPEAKER_00So, not so much a theory, but a question. Why did Asher try to dedicate Violet?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's something I was I was trying to think about that too. And they talked about her having an illness when she was younger, remember?
SPEAKER_00What does he know? So you remember how he left the books? He left all the books and the notes and everything for Violet, and she had to solve them to get it open. What else has he hidden? What else has he hidden that we don't know yet? That we don't know about, and what else does he know? And why does he know so much? Because he is a scribe, yes, but what did he know that he didn't leave in his books that he has left knowledge with somebody else? Because somebody else knows.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's what I was wondering. I'm like, how does he know all of this? Number one, he's not even bonded. So is there another scribe? Goes back to the scribe that he got a lot of this on. Yeah, that is there another scribe. Okay, so here's my my theories about her dad. So Theophany keeps telling Violet, I can give you the truth. I know the answers that you're looking for. Um, she does also tell Violet, though, that Venon lie. But I've I've had this huge theory that her dad was Venon and that his own her own mom had to kill him. Number one, she keeps the knife at her desk. Lilith does. She knows that that's what kills Venon. Number two, she tells um she says to Violet. Um I'm blanking, I can't remember exactly where it is. I know it's in the first book, but she tells Violet. Lila says to Violet in the book, um, when you have kids come back and talk to me, you will do anything to keep your kids safe. And it's like, is she even gonna go as far as to I think it's in the second book? Maybe I don't know. They all blend and merge into one for me. They honestly they all blend and merge into one big story for me. But um, yeah, she tells that to Violet. And it it's really interesting to think of like, okay, what is she referring to? What it what would you do for your own kids that's that big of a thing? And I I think that, and she even said to a um before she she sacrificed herself, she even said to one of the chapter headings, I think, where they wrote a letter to her husband that um, you know, if I go, it's going to be to protecting my kids. And so I I don't think he either he's not dead and he's venom, and she's always been armed to make sure if he came back, or he is and she's the one that took him out. That's what I think. And I think that's I think Asher is dead dead. I kind of do also, and I also think that um, but yeah, I think I think that he was Venom, but I don't know if how long was he Venom? Did he get to the point where you know how they talk about Riddick's like, okay, Violet, what's Zaydan's breaking point? What's the point that's going to get you to take him out? You know, and so she said, I hate all the theories about that now that are like Riddick asking what the breaking point is, and it's it's Zaydan taking Riddick out, and I'm like, please don't.
SPEAKER_00Like we already know it's gonna happen because of how much everybody loves Riddick as a character, and she's already kind of hinted at it for sure. She's hinted at it. She's like, if a character's regardless of how much a fan base loves a character, if that's his storyline, that's his storyline. And I'm like, Rebecca, respectfully stop killing my favorite characters.
SPEAKER_01But I also really like a lot of other ones, though, too. But like I'm I um dang it, where was oh so it makes you wonder, okay, if that's Violet's breaking point, what was her mom's breaking point? Was she was he putting the kids in danger? Was he like, because there's also tons of stuff about, you know, Jack Barlow says you have no idea how many Venon are probably here at Baskaya itself. And so you gotta wonder how many other people are there, how long I feel like Venon are also kind of immortal, or at least have an extremely long lifespan based off of what Theophany has said.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and that if I her dad was venom and knew all these secrets about feather tails, because also there is something that the venom want from feather tails. There's something because when Theophany or when Violet showed up to Theophany, she said, Oh, you don't have your feather tail anymore. Like she made that comment in a way that she was annoyed. Like she wanted her power or she wanted something from Andarna.
SPEAKER_00I think the Irids and the Venon go way deeper together than people realize.
SPEAKER_01Like maybe they were both the first start of power, like one siphon from the sky, one siphon from the earth. Like they're each other's balances in general.
SPEAKER_00I think the irids and the people that have bonded irids in the past were the venom's counters.
SPEAKER_01Because this goes back to the scribe where Venin came from. What if that's where Venom came from? Like you saying that what if yeah, what if the first venom was someone who was bonded to an erit, and so they were able to access this unimaginable power because and now they've been chasing that power since then.
SPEAKER_00Because this all goes back to the scribes and lying. So whenever they're talking about the wardstones and the first six, it's we know that we know that by firing the wardstone at um erasia, that there has to be a seventh. Because Antarna's fire is what fires the wardstone. So why is there no record of an Erid firing the wardstone at Bizgayath? It only talks about the first six.
SPEAKER_01In one of the journals, in the other journal, it talks about the seventh.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and the journal that everybody reads some were not. Not the journal that is in Royal, the Royal Vault. We're just gonna call it the Royal Vault because I can't think of what it's called right now. Um, in all the other journals, and in all of the education that they have, and everything that they've learned within the college itself from the scribes, because Warwick was not a scribe. Warwick was one of the first seven. But in all of the scribes and first six, yeah, first six.
SPEAKER_01So it makes you wonder has an ear in everbowed seven. So they get the two journals out of the vault. In one of the journals, it talks about the seven. It says the six plus the six plus the one. And then in the other one, it only talks about the six because that's where Jessenia realizes there's a difference there, and that's what makes Violet click that there's a seventh breed. Um and but that makes you wonder then, hasn't Erid ever bonded to? I know because they don't have, I mean, they can talk to whoever they want. So, I mean, I don't know, like either they have bonded with Venom before, and that's how they maybe maybe they were bonded with people who became Venom, and then once they became Venom and they realized the power they had, they needed to make the wards in order to protect themselves from them. Maybe, you know what I mean? And then after that, they never bonded with a villa with a venom.
SPEAKER_00Because they say that Leothan says that and darna was the like she was the test, the test subject, basically. Like we waited for you to hatch for so long because we were testing you and testing the humans to see if they could live in peace and learn from their mistakes. Yep. But if the mistakes are not kept clearly in the riot in the records of the scribes, then how would they know that they're making the same mistakes again? And maybe that's just back to the scribes are lying and the dragons are lying. Okay, last question for me. What power does Dane have? And why does Sloane say no one should have this much power, especially you?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so we are coming back to that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, we're coming back to that.
SPEAKER_01Like I said, I think Dane has a second signet and he's interesting. Um because the dragons know his dad is not as truthful as he is. So there's this theory out there that there is um two sides to the dragons. There's the dragons that want to keep everything secret, and then there's the dragons that don't. And that Taryn and Segel are like the lead on this rebellion. Like they're they're the lead on the rebellion. And so I'm wondering if that's part of Dane's dragon is like, hey, I know about your dad. They're doing really shady crap. So and I've I've bonded with your previous family, so I'm gonna come over to you and bond with you. And either he's being secretive about it or he doesn't know he has something yet.
SPEAKER_00Maybe. But then that also leads to if Dane has a second signet, then that means that second signets are not directly tied into relic marks.
SPEAKER_01And that is that that is confirmed.
SPEAKER_00And that dragons can that's confirmed.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no. It's right here. I got it. I just hold on. I got it. I got it.
SPEAKER_00Please hold. And that dragons can then dispose how many signets they want to to their riders.
SPEAKER_01Okay, right here. Zaydin is talking to Violet and she's asking about it. So okay. Um this is when she finds out that um Garrick is a distance wielder. So Garrick is a distance we're a distance wielder, isn't he? So I will say too, just if anyone's wondering, this is in chapter 12, page 102 of the book. Um I didn't bother hinting around the question. A moment of silence passes between us, but I see the confirmation in his eyes. Are you pissed I didn't tell you? I shake my head. You don't owe me your friend's secrets. My brows knit. But 20 hours of flying gave me some time to think. You, Garrick, I tilt my head, and I once thought I saw Liam wield ice, Zaydan says, stroking his thumb along his chin. I nod. How often do second signets accompany these particular relics? My fingers trail down the side of his neck. Often enough to be sure Kayori can't possibly have accurate records, which I think Kayori's Venin, by the way. I'll come back to that. But not too often, uh, but not too completely that anyone questions why I only present with one, he answers. Our dragons came looking for us. They knew what they were doing. And she says, giving you a better chance to survive. Uh I rest my hand over his heart. If you wax sentiment, more like building their own army. So I it's not a matter of I think they chose those kids because of their second signet. I think it's more because of the background and where they came from with the rebellion. Um, but I did see somewhere else, maybe maybe it was in one of my research things, something about that it's because um they say that you can get a second signet from being bonded with a previous family member, not because they have that mark.
SPEAKER_00That's the reason why. Good morning.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I I I don't think it's just people with with those marks that can have a second signet. It's it's these dragons, like you said, they've been secretive. They knew they bonded with previous family members. And it makes you wonder then about um why don't we know Naolin's last name? We don't. We also don't know Jack Barlow's signet.
SPEAKER_00So I think I know that you have a whole Nailin Brennan theory, but I think that Naolin is Berwin and that Berwin is his last name. Okay. Because number one, we never know Naolin's last name, and we never truly know how old he is. I know it says he's a few years older than um, hold on, let me fix the TV for them real quick.
SPEAKER_01Well, it makes it sound like he's really old in the visions, unless that's just how I pictured it. Not visions, the dreams. You know what they need to do? They need to take Dane and be like, Dane, here, watch my my dreams. And then Brennan, hey, check my memories. Is it the same person?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So um I was looking for this and I just found it. Um in the book, it says Naylon didn't fail, but it cost him everything. Brennan is severely injured.
SPEAKER_01And what Brennan said.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Brennan is severely injured and can barely mend himself. He even says that healing himself takes far more effort than healing others. He has an arrow in his chest from Finn Ryerson. But you know who else almost died is Mira in Onyx Storm. And to save her, Brennan was walking a fine line of burnout. And what did he need? Extra power from Sloane. Now, when Brennan was dying with not enough power to mend himself, Naylon was there. So where did Naylan cypher power from in order to save Brennan? From himself, from his dragon, and eventually from the ground. Naylon didn't fail, but it cost him everything. Knowing that she's bonded to Terran, whose bond gets deeper with each writer, and whose previous bond was always so strong that Naylon's death nearly killed him. So we don't also don't know who Terran's other previous writers are.
SPEAKER_01Which I believe he does have other previous writers. I've marked so many things in these.
SPEAKER_00Because you can't say, you can't say that his bond gets deeper with previous writers with every writer, and he's only had one other writer.
SPEAKER_01Violet gets away from the other. Also goes into the fact that the dragons Violet gives away that he's had more writers. Dreamwalking is actually her second signet, not from Andarna.
SPEAKER_00I don't think Dreamwalking is from Andarna. I think she gets something completely different from Andornet.
SPEAKER_01Well, because and also what I've noticed is a lot of these people who have second signets, it tends to be something manipulative with the mind and then something physical.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Um that's what makes me think about Dane having another one, also. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00I don't think Tairn nearly died because Naolin died. I think Terran nearly died because he had to sever his bond with Nailin when he turned Venin.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that has now turned Nailin, aka Berwin, obsessed with killing dragons. Because Taren severed his bond. Because we know that dragons can be bonded to Venon because of Jack Barlow.
SPEAKER_01But we also know that if a dragon dies, the Venon don't.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01We know Brennan is clearly hiding something, saying it cost him everything.
SPEAKER_00And what is the mark?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he does. He has that mark on his hand as if like there was a um when they talked about that, it made me think that was there a like a deeper transfer because I think it's on his hand. So when they talked about that, I'm like, was there a deeper transfer of power when that happened? That it needed almost like blood contact. You know what I'm saying? But then that could also be theory to to support my theory, though, too, that Naolin and Brennan are kind of one person right now. Naolin and Brennan are like one in the same as far as like so, like he siphoned, he he like Naolin put himself into Brennan to save his life. He took his own life force and put it into Brennan to save his life, and that's how he lived. And that's why Segel hates Brennan because it's he's the reason, of course, that why Taryn doesn't have Naolin anymore because of the attempts of that power, but also because that's who his in a sense I don't know, he's also kind of bonded. But then there's also this this made me it made me think of this too, though, when what you were just saying to kind of support your theory, is that um Zaydan is able to tell Brennan about being Venon and he tries to help mend him. And what if that's a huge reason why he's able to see past all of it because he wants to save Nayland too. Brennan wants to try to help Zaiden and save Zaydan because he's like, oh my gosh, what if what if if I can help Zayd in, I can help. Okay, we had way too much to say for one episode, so we're splitting this into two parts. Part two drops August 20th, so come back and listen then. And if you're listening after August 20th, good news, you don't have to wait. Jump right into part two, and we'll see you there.