Episode 3: Part 2 Fourth Wing Deep Dive Cont..

🐉 Fourth Wing Deep Dive — Part Two: The Theories Get Even More Unhinged

We told you we had WAY too much to say for one episode… so welcome to Part Two of our Fourth Wing / Empyrean Series deep dive! ⚔️🔥

Sam and Kayla are jumping right back into Basgiath and continuing down every rabbit hole we possibly can.

🐉 Dragons, riders & bonds
🩸 Venin theories and questions we NEED answered
👀 Characters we’re suspicious of
⚔️ Predictions for what could happen next
📚 Connections and clues we may have completely overanalyzed
🤯 And the theories that get more unhinged the longer we talk about them

Are we onto something… or have we officially spent WAY too much time thinking about these books? 😂

⚠️ MAJOR EMPYREAN SERIES SPOILERS! If you aren't caught up, save this episode and come back!

🎧 Listen to Enchanted & Exhausted on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and wherever you get your podcasts — or watch the full video podcast on YouTube.

If you haven't listened to Part One yet, start there first!

Then come back and tell us: What Empyrean theory are you willing to bet EVERYTHING on? 👀🐉

#FourthWing #EmpyreanSeries #RebeccaYarros #BookTok #EnchantedAndExhausted

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay, we've gotten totally off topic though, in a way. Because we were going through who who were doing the threshing.

unknown 0:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

What were you reading? So we definitely went out of order. We did series first, and now we're back to threshing. Um I still have my theories though. We have not gone deep into those yet. Yeah. But so threshing day theories, we're getting 13 stories. 13 threshing day stories. And it does not say that it's 13 stories from Violet's year. They have confirmed some of the voice actors. Not all, but some. I did send you that information on Instagram a few days ago, I think. I think I've done if you saw that or not. Um, so I think that we're gonna get Zaydan's thrushing for sure. Yes. I think we're also gonna get Jack Barlow's thrushing. And was he vening before or after he bonded Bade? I think before I think he was Venom. Why did she bond? I think because this is one of my theories. Don't we just start going into Jack Barlow's theory? Yeah. Okay. Jack Barlow, I believe, has been Venin for a very long time. Um, because he's been able to hide that he's Venin. Once, and he makes the comment to Violet that you'd be surprised how many are here, right? So that makes me believe they can get to the point where they can either disguise their redness and their veins and stuff and learn that. And Zayden hasn't gotten to that point yet. So they can learn how to disguise all of that and hide it. And um, so I think he's been venomed the whole time. And then when he kills his dragon, he says, Do you see how easy it is for me to control her? I don't know if he ever truly quote unquote bonded or he fooled her and she bonded, but then he took control immediately from her because number one, he wanted to bond with Taryn. Yeah, he did. Okay. And so why think about Threshing Day? Why was he so adamant about killing Indarna? And we talked about how Theophany wanted a feather tail and he knew this information. And Violet even says, No one knows stuff about feather tails. How does he know that? Because he spits out some stuff about them. Okay. And so my theory is he took over his dragon and learned a lot of secrets, made his dragon tell him. And that's why his dragon's name means flock, is because it's just another one of the oh no, means herd. Just another one of the herd, just another one, just a random dragon. That that dragon doesn't truly have a significance outside of Jack using him. And so, you know, he had, so I believe he bonded with his dragon, and then he went on this killing spree, or wanted to. I mean, he had heavy bloodlust. That's another reason why, too. He was bloodlust from the get-go, and that is a sign of venom, also. Um, and he really, really wanted Terran for the power. Mm-hmm. And I'm wondering if when he bonded to that dragon, he's like, How can I get to the black dragon? How can I how can I get there? And maybe that dragon's like, well, I know him and Sigil really admire and protect the feather tail. Yeah. And so he wanted to go after that feather tail to either try to bond with Tarran, or you know what I mean? Kind of like, it's like I don't know his thought process or try to get to Tarran. Maybe he was hoping that if Taryn came down to protect the feather tail, he could take control of Terran, like he took control of that dragon. Because he knows he can mind control them. Yeah. So maybe that was also part of his purpose for that. Um, and it says if you read down at the bottom of this list that I sent you, black dragons on how to approach them. Um never approach for permission. Maintain eye contact only when appropriate. Um, black dragons are most powerful and least tolerant. So he had this cockiness and this confidentness about him that made it makes me believe that he thought he could mind control Taryn if Taryn came to go save Indarna. And Violet being there was the piece that Jack didn't anticipate. Yeah. Um I think about it. Yeah, I think because of all of that. Back to Thresh Days. Is it just going to be Dragon Threshing Days? Or do Wyvern have threshing days? And are we gonna get Theophany's story? And see, that's what makes me wonder. Was Theophany previously a dragon rider? No, because she was a um uh she was a priestess for Dune. What? Good morning. Um are we gonna get any of the griffin threshing stories? I know it's not called thrushing for griffins, it's called something else, but I'm wondering if we're gonna get any of those stories. Because griffins have to know something too. Yeah, it can't just be but I also have a theory that not all writers are just from Visgiath. And that's what makes me think about Taryn's other writers. That's why I'm like, Theophany could have been. She could have been bonded. We don't know. She could have been bonded, yeah. Nobody said it had to be all because the Irids don't live. The the Arids don't live near and they've only had records of the 400 years. What if Theophany is like 800 years old? She could have been bonded decades ago. I'm also wondering how much about Venin, because about Venin does poor Emil know that they're not sharing with Navarre because we know that tensions are high and they've been at battle and war and everything else for hundreds of years. How much does poor meal know that they are not sharing with Navarre? Um, number five on my flashing day series is Lilith responding to Ames here, Brennan, Bodie, Imogen, and Dane. So on mine, the first five have been confirmed that these are the voice actors Zaydan, Bodie, Liam, Riddick, and Rihanna. They've confirmed those five voice actors are going to be in it. They have also confirmed that Theophany's voice actor is going to be in there. So they're wondering was she at Violet's threshing, or was she? That's where I'm like, is it Sam's theory of the wyvern, or is it, you know, my theory that maybe she was bonded to a dragon at some point in her? I also wonder if we're gonna get Melgren's threshing. I think so. Because I don't think Melgren is as. I don't think Melgren is in in charge. I think Melgren is a pawn. Coda is his handler, and Coda tells Melgram everything to say, do, present, announce, etc. Or he manipulates him that way. He makes Melgren think he's in charge, but really he's yeah, yeah. So I also think we're gonna get Sawyers. Um I think we're gonna get Sawyers because what is Sawyer's dragon thing? Atram? No, that's Reddit's. Um uh Sleag. Sleag, yeah. Um, because why wasn't he bonded the first year? Why is Hram okay? So if all the dragon names coordinate with their signets, why is Hram light and Reddit's signet is ice? I think he has a second signet. Oh, another reason why I think Dane has a second signet is because at the end of Onyx Storm, when he's seeing all of the second signets come from, you know, he saw he saw Imogen turn that shield to stone, he saw um um Garrick Distance Wheeled. Like he he saw all of those things. And so, and he said, We need to talk about this. And it makes me wonder if he's ready then to open up about his second signet too. And it might help them trust him so much more with everything going on that if he's like, Look, I have a second signet also, like, and so then they realize that Dane has been chosen for this army that Zaydan talks about, that these dragons are building an army. So there's one, and even I watched in an interview with uh Rebecca Yarros that um she almost gave away stuff from book four. She caught herself, and they they asked the question what are the unbonded dragons doing? And she said, They are just hanging out in the veil, either the one in Aresha or the one, uh, because there's two veils now. There's two, or not necessarily veils, but uh hatching grounds, the one in orisha, the one in the veil. And she said something along the lines of they are choosing what to do. And she's like, Oh, I almost just gave away a big part. And so it's like, are they choosing to join this quote unquote my that's my theory dragon rebellion that not a rebellion? Revolution, whatever. Even even Melgren, even Melgren calls it a revolution. That's true, he did. So it's like Sagale was the start of that, or I guess in a sense, Coda, Coda was the start of it. Go back, but it didn't start until Zaydan got into Thrushing, got into the academy. He was originally started with Finn Ryerson. No, no, no, no, no. I mean as far as the dragons forming this army, so it was Coda. Coda marked those kids, yeah, and then um yeah, I was saying how um Coda is the leader of this revolution, and then it couldn't truly start to build the army until Zaydon got in there and Sigil bonded with him and the other dragons bonded as well. But it also makes me wonder, though, about Taryn. Did Taryn truly not intend to bond with Violet, or did he choose not to present himself so it wouldn't be such a like a battle struggle for other people to bond with him or whatever the case might be? Because Siguel, I mean, and they knew that he was there. I think he had always planned a bottle. It's like, I know your name and I know what you are. I know who and what you are. Yeah, I think he always planned a bond with Violet. Yeah, and it was just a matter of the timing when he showed up into the field because Violet was like, I didn't feel like I, you know, connected with any of the dragons at present presentation day. I didn't, you know, and versus like Rihanna was like, I'm gonna go for that green one that was near you and smelling your bet, you know. So it's like, yeah, they it but she didn't feel it, she she was like, maybe I won't, you know, but it um I think Violet was always meant to bond with Taryn, and I think that and Darna hatching and being ready for presentation day and for threshing that year was all a part of the plan. I think Taren knew when she was gonna catch, and after everything with Naylan and Brennan, then he was gonna wait and bite his time until it was Violet's turn. No, and Darna talked about that. She she picked Violet inside her egg. She's like, I heard about this girl who was and that that's a scribe. Yes, but who was talking about her? That she heard of an egg. Yep. Who's talking about uh yeah, who's who was talking about Violet? Was it Taryn? Was it other people saying, oh, we need to push her to be a scribe? Like who who was talking about Violet to Andarna that made Andarna choose that she wanted to bond with her? Mm-hmm. So and not only that, but that's what makes me almost wonder how much the dragons, who in the dragons has precog abilities? It has to be a dragon who has that. Because if they give that, I mean, even like they talk about um dragons have dragons have faresight, they can see amazing. And Violet even mentions like, well, then why does why do they give that as a, you know, if our dragons can see this well? Oh, she it was Taryn, she asked, because Taryn gave him her vision for something she couldn't see in the dark or something like that during a battle. And she was like, Is this how Liam could see, you know, so why why don't dragons do this more often? And why do we get a signet that our dragons can just share their vision with us? And he just said some people get blessed or gifted what their dragons can do, also. And it makes me wonder then, okay, so when it comes to someone with precog like Eric Ark, is that something a dragon has or his dragon has and is part of this whole plan? And they know when Violet, because Violet was supposed to be a scribe up until six months before her threshing. So how did Andarna hatch two years before Violet was coming? Knew about it unless, unless it's not pre-cog, but have you seen the theory of Zaydan and Violet being the reincarnation of Dune and Malik? Malik. Yeah. But still, like, I just I think the gods play a much bigger role. I've also heard a theory that Taryn is Malik. So um going back to that Aryx dragon has pre-cog like he does, uh huh. Blue dragons also they talk about this in the first book when they're going through with when they're with Professor Kaori, and they are um talking about so he brings up Segale and he says she's a blue dagger tail, the rarest of blues. And yes, if you see her without her bonded writer, you should definitely find somewhere else to be. Ruthless does not to begin to describe her, nor does she abide by what we assume to be what dragons consider law. She even bonded a relative of one of her previous writers, which y'all know is typically forbidden, but Siguel does whatever she wants whenever she wants. In fact, if you see any of the blues, don't approach them. Blues do whatever they want. And that made me think of like, okay, well, Ark bonded with the blue, and they just like passed over that. Like it's a normal thing. When they even say there are a handful of other blues active in service, but you'll find them all along the uh Espen Mountains in the east, where the fighting is most intense, they're all intimidating, but Sigil is the most powerful of them all. So blue dragons are known to be powerful and intimidating and ruthless, just like Taryn is as a battle dragon. And so it makes you think about more of where is Ark going with all of this as a precog and things like that. And if Andarna heard to she heard about Violet, she heard about a uh a writer who has the mind of a scribe, but Violet didn't even know she was going to be a writer until six months before the academy. Where in the dragon world is there a precog that knows what's going on right now? Because Aindarna hatched two years before Violet went in there so she could be ready to bond with Violet. Theophany Dane's mother. I just read it on Facebook. Asher found out, and Dane's dad killed Asher. I j I literally just read it on a Facebook thread. But that would mean that Dane could be half Venom. Unless she turned no, she couldn't have turned after he was born because she's had her powers when Lilith was in school, and Dane is in between Mira and Violet's age. The hatching grounds for the Erids are in the barrens, and it's part of how Wyvern are generated. That wouldn't make sense though, then, because they're they're connected to their riders, where if their writer dies, they die. So it's almost the opposite, though, of a dragon dying, the rider dies. Yeah. Um, and then the last one I just found says that Bodhi is going to hurt Violet and Zaydon is going to kill him. That's a big one. That is a big one. But remember what Rebecca Yarrow said about how Bodhi wants what he can't have and he wants what Zaydan has. What's Bodhi's power again? Uh uh counter. Counter signet. Which, if you think about what a counter signet does, it gives you the ability to control someone else's signet temporarily. So something you want to have that you can't do. Yeah. But we don't know. Oh no, no, no. His other one too. So no no, is that Garek or Bodhi who does the distance? We don't know. Garek does air and distance building. We don't know Bodhi's second signet, do we? No. Unless it is Bodhi that turn, if he is the second brother, because he wants what Zaydan has, too. Maybe that's where that theory comes into play, also. Because Bodhi is supposed to be next in line after Zaydan. So is he gonna try to like but Zaiden leaves Tyrandoor to Violet, that's why they got married. But is Bodhi going to try to get with Tyrone? I think so. So another thing that I wanted to think about too was at the very end of the book, and I had to go back and listen to this, and this is when I caught it. When Violet wakes up, they said there was six missing, right? No, he says five missing now, four now. Okay, whatever. My bad. Got my numbers wrong. So only one person has come back. And that was Violet. So Imogen was not with them. Imogen stayed there. She wasn't one of them missing. So wherever she went, she came back and found Imogen and told her to wipe her memory. At least that's what Imogen is saying. Imogen is saying, I'm doing what you told me to. Yeah, and what he's saying here at the very end, also when Zaydan is talking to Segill. So they're talking about him marrying her right here. And there's this whole theory that they've been married since chapter three. I don't believe that because of this conversation he has with Siguel right here. Will you forsake me now? What is there left to forsake? You tell me. You cannot mean to, and then he cuts her off. You saw what happened. It's the only way. So he went full then in, took everything, and his only thing that left connected him was what snapped him out of it was um Violet saying, I love you down the bond. She glan and it's this is referring to Shiget Siguel. She glances over her shoulder, and you'll think she'll help. She loves me. Taryn does not, and you. You haven't looked in the mirror yet. The red veins branching from your eyes look like her lightning. She'll help. Even if she agrees, no one will. Someone owes me a favor. So someone owed him a favor to get them married. He'll never let you near her tail flicks, especially while she lies in a vulnerable state. Oh my gosh, no. Maybe it's not their marriage. Maybe they were married. Maybe they're talking about stealing the dragon eggs. Mm-hmm. I'm like, my mind's like I because everything's like coming to light. Okay. Um, I will say, okay, I wanted to read off my list really quick of the 13 that I assumed. Um, so I said Zaydon, Bodhi, Liam, Riddick, Rihannen, Sawyer, Dane, Brennan, Mira, if not Mira, Melgren, Garrick, Imogen, Jack Barlow, and Theophany. But I think Theophany has had a previous dragon. I think she bonded to a dragon. What if she bonded to Taryn? That was a huge thing that I guessed too because um of what Violet said. So a lot of people said, no, no, they they said that's his only. This is my last theory I want to do, and then we can wrap it up and either then go into part two later on or whatever. But my last theory about Taryn having a second writer is that, you know, and so I like I have like my my my my little annotation tabs, everything in my books here. So Taryn, Professor Kayori. Oh, reading this is what made me think Professor Kaori's venom. Okay, so I'll I'll read this really quick. Um, when they're talking about how many dragons are gonna bond. Well, they tell you they won't bond. Another first year asks. No, Jack ass, Jack scoffs. His icy blue narrow eyes on a cadet. Dragons only talk to their bonded riders, just like they only give their full name to their bonded rider. You should know that by now. So after he says that, Professor Kayori sends Jack a look that shuts the first year's mouth, but doesn't stop him from sneering the other cadet. As if like Kayori's like, keep your mouth shut, damn it. You know, like that kind of look. Like, like don't give too much away. Like him and Jack both know things that are going on because I think they're both venom. And then they also they continue to go on. It says, Do the numbers affect the wards? Someone uh uh one of the girls asks that sits behind her, tapping her quill against the edge of the desk. She never uh she's never happy sitting still. Professor Kayori's jaw ticks twice. They start talking about the wards, and his jaw twicks like he's irritated about it. Okay. Um there's one more thing to that is said. Okay, so right here, um, when they're talking about Sigel, run, Riddick repeats, raking his hand through his floppy brown hair. Run, Professor Kayori agrees with a smile. The mustache above his top lip quivering slightly. The red, like, you know, so it's like just from those three things when he's talking about dragons and interactions with Jack, make it seem like he's he's annoyed by the subject, you know. Makes me think there's more to him that way. Okay, but when they're talking about Taryn, he hasn't agreed to bond since his previous and only writer was killed during the uprising. And the only way you'd ever be near him is if you're in the veil. So, and even Professor Kaori says he hasn't seen him in five years. So who knows where he's been. Number two, black dragons all are only seemed to be born in Tirindor, like area. So that's where Kota and Terran were both born, and then two more black dragons hatch all of a sudden in the new hatching grounds. As soon as the new hatching grounds open in Terran, yes, and I know that is hugely important. Um, Rebecca Yar's hint at that. So they talk about this, and this is goes back to the theory that the scribes have been controlling things a lot more, but also that the dragons are. I almost want to say the dragons might almost be even be controlling the scribes, or maybe someone's going in there and tampering with the records. Because unless Taryn bonded with someone outside of Bezgayath, they only have record of him bonding with one person. But we also know they are wrong because they reported it being Zaidan's great uncle, not his grandfather. Right? So then that takes me to so that's in fourth wing, very beginning, right? We're gonna go into Onyx Storm. At the very end. Like, here's the rest of the book. That's the end. One page 395 at the bottom, it's when Violet is with Sawyer and he's trying to mount his dragon for the first time with his new prosthetic, so they can all go fly to Tyrandoor and do their runes training, right? So she sees Sawyer talking to his dragon, saying, like, I don't want to dishonor you by you having to which also that's the other thing, too. Sorry, super sidetrack. I heard this. Dragons don't like people. Why is it that Taryn is the only one who saves Violet's life when clearly all the other ones could? Griffins don't kill the writers, yeah, they just get to try again, or or they get to go to somewhere else. Dragons purposely just like whatever. Why? You know, okay, anyways. Okay, so yeah, he says, I don't want to dishonor you. And so then Violet starts talking to Taryn. Is that how you feel when you dip your shoulder for me? I asked Taryn. Dishonored. I am the second largest dragon on the continent in a review, revered warrior. My tales of leg are legendary, my mate unparalleled, my feet unmatched. That's another thing he says too. My tails are he's a legendary battle dragon. So, how has he only had one writer? Exactly. Okay, but and what was he doing in the five years between Naolin and Violet? Because nobody says, Do they confirm that Naolin, they do they confirm that Naolin is a couple years older than Brennan? Or they confirm that Brennan was dating someone a couple years older than him. But they don't confirm that that's the same person because there's another theory out there saying that Naolin has is like their their grandfather, like Lilith's dad, or something like that. And so that's another reason why he would go to those lengths to save Brennan because it was his grandson. Okay, but um, she said, doesn't change my question. I cut him off before he starts the list of accolades. It would take a great deal more than a change of posture to dishonor me. But you never had to lower yourself before me, did you? Not for Naolan or, and then he cuts her off and says, We do not speak of the one who came before. I don't think he's referring to Nolan there because he actually says Nolan's name in the series. When Sloan gets her powers, he says, marked it in this one. Okay, ready for so here in Iron Flame. Sloan is like, are my eyes red? Sloane uh shakes me, or maybe she's shaking and simply holding on to me. Are they red? I swear I didn't reach Violet, I didn't take anything from you on purpose. Oh gods, am I turning Venon? She is as Nolan was, Taryn says. So Taryn doesn't like to speak of the one who came before, not even mention the name or have anyone else. I if that's the case, then why would he bring up or even say Nolan's name? He would say, he he would say something like, Oh, she's as she's she's as if um my previous writer, or just say she's a siphon. But he actually says his name. So that makes me believe it's not Nolan that he is tore up about, it's the other writer. And maybe that other writer, you know, and then when he bonded with Nolan, it caused him almost the death because the more you bond, the more attached you get. Yeah. But really, it was another writer that burned him, did him wrong, became Venom, did something. So that's and he also um it makes me wonder too why they call he refers to Zaiden as the dark one, and he always calls Violet silver one. And you think that's just by her hair, but he calls Zaden Dark One because of how he wields. So how does Violet wield her magic with silver in a sense? Too. I don't know, that was another theory I had also. Because he claimed what she was too. So maybe that goes to the whole gods thing. But, anyways, I know we have to wrap up. But it was just that was my whole thing where he has had another writer, regardless if it has been in Threshing through Busgiath or outside of that, he had another writer, and it could have been Theophany, it could have been another family member, so then she has another um signet. It could, you know, like he could have had more than one, but I believe he's had more because she says or as if they have spoken, because they even talk about how when they're in long flights, he goes over all of his family lineage and all of these things, right? Well, who's not to say he even told her about another writer he had that she keeps secret because and they talk about the secrets of a bonded with their dragon, and this is all told through Jacenia's point of view. So, of course, we wouldn't know about it sooner because it's a secret that Violet has to keep that she's not gonna tell Jessenia. Yep. All right, I think we are. Sorry, I I I can go on. I'm just like I know we could literally debate theories for hours and hours and hours. Um well, here's one thing we know we'll probably do another episode coming um October, probably after we read Thrushing a couple times and kind of get our notes down with that. So this will be continued. I may edit this into a two-part or two. We we will see. All right. Um, so we're wrapping up for the day. Um, we do want to hear for you what's one fourth wing theory that you think is absolutely true. Um, and what is one theory that everyone else believes is true that you think is completely wrong? Leave us a comment um wherever you're streaming this out. Counter us, challenge us, give us other theories out there for us to play on. Yeah. Um if you, as always, if you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to leave us a five-star rating. It really helps our little podcast grow and get pushed out. And follow us on all of our socials, which will be linked in the comments below. Yep, we'll have a link tree. Yep, I have it up. It should be on our Facebook now. I'm working on getting we need to add to it though, since I've added um iHeartRadio and Amazon music. So I'll when we I'll I I'll give you those links. Yeah. So um, you can follow us on all of our socials to keep up with new episodes, behind the scenes, and all of the bookish content in between. And with that, we'll see you next week for another episode of Enchanted and Exhausted.