All 13 Christopher Nolan films ranked featuring Bryan Lomax

Charles is joined by good friend of the channel Bryan Lomax and they will rank the Nolan filmography, and the countdown will be based on their averages. What's YOUR list look like?

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Charles 0:03

Hello, it's me Charles. Welcome to a special uh podcasty type thing. And uh we have something special. Uh number 13 is special in our group. And uh oh backwards, I guess. 13 backwards is special to us. I'm I'm joined by Brian Lomax. Sir, what are we doing here? What are we talking about?

Bryan Lomax 0:22

I'm talking about my favorite director, Christopher Nolan. What with him having a little film out called The Odyssey? A little independent number. Yeah, yeah. So it's a good time to rank all 13 of his movies. Dude's just just reached Kubrick kind of numbers now. So Kubrick made 13 movies. Nolan, who has been heavily influenced by Kubrick, has the best Friday isn't the 13th. So he's just hit 13 movies, same as his hero, Kubrick. Um yeah, so we're gonna rank all 13 of those movies. We're gonna do so that we're gonna give you them in the order that our averages have come out. So this isn't my ranking or CP's ranking, it is like both of our rankings kind of averaged it out to give what what it is. But we will we will let you know individually where we where we put each film.

Charles 1:19

Yeah.

Bryan Lomax 1:19

But we're gonna do them in the order of how it averaged out.

Charles 1:22

It's funny because even with just two of us averaging some of these things, you look at the average number, you're like, wow, that's that's interesting. Some of them kind of make sense, but some of them when we get to them, it it's yeah, it's very interesting. I will say that uh I have recency bias with all the stuff that I rank, and I have not seen Odyssey the way I would like to see it. Yes. So when we get to that, we'll uh I'll explain how or why I have it where I do.

Bryan Lomax 1:50

Yeah. I I'm I'm I've got Odyssey where I've got it right now because that's on one watch, and it's I'm reluctant to put it higher because of the recency bias. Right. Um, because that's failed me in the past. Likewise. Um so I'm I'm I'm keeping it where it is with the full knowledge that it will it if it holds up the way it yeah, you know, these things do, it it could very well jump one, if not two places higher for me. But yeah, yeah, likewise. Currently, this is this is where we sit.

Charles 2:24

Right, so the average between the two of us, number 13, our our combined least favorite Christopher Nolan film, and it it's a total of 13. It's following. We both have it at 13. So we we agree universally on all of this, no math needed. Um following Brian.

Bryan Lomax 2:45

Yeah. Again, like you know, go going off the the Kubrick analogies, they both both of their first movies were these independently funded black and white uh shoots it by themselves, kind of no budget, like no act no big names or anything like that. Um now while Kubrick's effort, fear, and desire is what I would describe as practically unwatchable, it's a terrible, terrible movie. Uh following is actually just it is a damn good movie, and it is only let down essentially by that lack of budget and the fact that you can tell this is a bunch of bunch of guys, bunch of friends getting together on weekends to shoot it. Like story-wise, you know, it's great. I I think the dialogue's a bit ropey, it's got some some of Nolan's worst dialogue is in it, very expositional. And again, I think you wouldn't notice that as much if you had A-list actors.

Charles 3:46

I think that's fair. There's something I've noticed about him. You know, I'm like, I I trust him with a lot of Warner Brothers or a lot of Universal's money. And I I don't know if that's saying much about the the process or the actors or what, but following is probably the I mean it's his first go. So, you know, if I again we said this earlier, if if your 13th best film is following, you're you're doing all right.

Bryan Lomax 4:13

There's not a single bad movie on this list. That's it. I mean, Nolan has yet to make a movie where I'm like, oh that's oops, that was a slip. Like his first movie right out the gate, it's an independently funded film. If I could make a film that was that I just funded myself, that good, I would I would be very happy with myself. So yeah, nothing to be embarrassed about at all as far as debut effort goes.

Charles 4:40

Yeah, when you consider him with a couple of hundred million dollars, him with with nothing is quite impressive as well.

Bryan Lomax 4:46

Yeah.

Charles 4:47

Uh moving on to number 12 between us, and there's a little bit of shift here. Um, it is Insomnia. Uh you have it at 11, I have it at 12.

Bryan Lomax 4:57

Yeah.

Charles 4:58

Um, I need to re-watch it. I'll I'll I'll be I haven't watched it since we did 31 in what 2022, I think.

Bryan Lomax 5:04

Yeah, yeah.

Charles 5:05

So it's it's been a while, but um it it anything before Batman Begins for me feels like Nolan being normal, and I'm using quotes like the closest thing to like I don't know. I I just feel like once he did Batman Begins, his style is distinct. And I think before Batman Begins, and and probably most especially in Insomnia, I there's just something that I can't put my finger on it, but this is going on a very old memory of it. But I I'm I'm not like blown away. I'm I'm not turned off by it, I'm not blown away by it, but it doesn't have that this is definitely a molin film.

Bryan Lomax 5:49

Okay. This is insomnia. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've heard quite a few people describe it as like it it's Nolan doing Fincha. Um and it's like okay, uh a little unfair, I would say, but um I I mean it's fairly unfair to the original Swedish version that was it Swedish, I think, or whatever. Norwegian, I don't know. One of those countries.

Charles 6:19

So one of the happy ones.

Bryan Lomax 6:20

Yeah, I I I like it. I just think it's got some really solid performances in it. Uh, and I I just I like a good kind of detective serial killer thriller kind of movie, and this is this is a a grade A version of that. It's just that Nolan's filmography is so damn strong that it ends up lower down the list.

Charles 6:46

Yeah, um, I I think it's wild when we get to the next one. I uh Nolan pre-Batman begins. Um, even without him having his quote unquote voice, as I like to call it. I I I thought he did a little bit better with something else rather than Insomnia. But again, I I really would like to re-watch. I might re-watch all of them just to do something from my channel or something, something more than this. Um but yeah, on to the next one, and that is Memento at 11. You have it at 10, I have it at 10. Averages be damned.

Bryan Lomax 7:20

Uh so we both have it at 10. We both have it. And yeah, because of those stupid averages, it's at 11.

Charles 7:26

Already, already we're doing a five.

Bryan Lomax 7:27

Alright, right. Well, it's right, so yeah. This should be at 10, then we both got it at 10, it should be at 10. That's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. We should have set a rule. Yeah, we should have set a rule that if we both have it at the same number, that's where it goes. But yeah, um Wow, okay. So Memento is at 11.

Charles 7:48

Yeah, this is the movie that like uh I don't think you need money. Uh this movie, I don't know how much money strength is in the idea.

Bryan Lomax 7:56

Yeah, it's in the script.

Charles 7:58

It's just an yeah, it's it's I think it speaks to me a hell of a lot because I have you know neurological issues, memory issues, and like watching it a a number of times and being able to figure out uh not figure out, but being able to have something that I can relate to and understand and and have it still be like a thriller, yeah. Um is is really, really impressive considering this is what his second film?

Bryan Lomax 8:24

Yeah, yeah, second. This is like his first proper kind of movie. Right. Which you know, that's no disrespect to follow in, but it's like this is the first first film that he's got back in that he's not just flying by the seat of his pants, but yeah, I can't remember when I first watched it either.

Charles 8:40

It was one of those things where it's like, oh, have you heard of this movie where the guy tattoos himself and know who Nolan was in there?

Bryan Lomax 8:46

Yeah, it was it was quite a critical darling when it came out, and then all of a sudden it's like Nolan's this quite oh, it's like director, what one to watch kind of thing. Um I I loved Memento when I first saw it, but I I'm I'm always reluctant to get on the you know, Jordan Peel is the next John Carpenter, dude, he's done one film, shut up. Uh so like yeah, I I I I whenever a director comes out and they do a great film, I'm just like, okay, that was really good. I'll I'll see see where they go.

Charles 9:19

But I I ain't gonna start naming them the one of the best filmmakers out there until but yeah, to be fair, if if this were his ceiling, it's still pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still pretty impressive. Yeah, oh yeah.

Bryan Lomax 9:33

I mean the the film itself is is damn good. Uh, but it's just it's just a really great movie about how we we can't really trust our own perspective on life. Um it's just we're we're constrained by the limits of our own experience, really. And and yeah, and and in this case of of a neurological disorder.

Charles 9:57

And and again, as someone who who has issues like this, it's it's it yeah, to to describe my wife's face when she'll describe something like you know, what did you mean yesterday when you said this? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's such a foreign experience, but to to see it portrayed like this is uh incredible. I I'm gonna have you watch that that Korean film too, which is is nowhere close to uh Memento, but uh Memoirs of a Murderer is is similar. It's it speaks to me for neurological issues, but this and this was the first time Guy Pierce became someone other than that guy off neighbours to me.

Bryan Lomax 10:37

Oh wow, see I didn't know him as that guy off neighbours. Yeah, he started out in neighbours, and it's like all of a sudden it's like he's in a movie and it's like okay, it's like soap soap opera actors don't go to movies, uh and then all of a sudden he's like, Oh, oh no, he's actually an actor. Okay, cool. Uh I mean Russell Crowe as well. He Russell Crowe did did soap. He was either in Neighbours or Home and Away. He was in one of those two Australian. He kind of made his yeah.

Charles 11:04

It's hysterical.

Bryan Lomax 11:05

Yeah, it's pretty, pretty funny.

Charles 11:07

Okay, so to the average's number 10, it's Brian's 12, it's my number seven. Again, I need to rewatch these. It is Dunkirk.

Bryan Lomax 11:17

Yes, I mean, like this this is the biggest drop-off for any Nolan film for me. Like it was it was a five-star film when I first saw it. And and I'll stand by that, like the the the first time watch experience in a cinema of just that that constant ticking clock in the soundtrack, the the fact that these guys have just got to get off this beach and the race to get them off by water and by air. Like, it was all just it's really frenetic. And and and again, it was one of those movies that was all about the experience, not necessarily about it's not a character-driven movie, it's an experience-driven movie. Sure. Um, and I'm fine with that, just as long as the experience you take on is actually one that again puts you on the edge EC and makes you feel that. And and it's just the law of diminishing returns, because I know what's happening, I know what's gonna happen. It doesn't quite hold the same momentum and the same kind of um yeah, adrenaline fuel that that it previously did. Uh like I remember on the second watch, I I still really loved it, it still kind of held that. And then yeah, I watched it recently, and I'm just like, it's just I'm that I'm at that point now where something is quite kind of missing, and I would like a particular character that I could stay with because once all the it's like a roller coaster, once you know what's coming, eventually it just subsides and subsides until eventually you don't really feel much at all. Um, and I won't say I don't feel anything at all, it's just that drop-off from going to wow, what an experience to okay, I know this particular band on the roller coaster.

Charles 12:55

Yeah, it's I yeah, I I think what I appreciated about this movie again. I I I would like to rewatch it like soon. Um a lot of this is this is the first non-American World War II movie that felt like an American type action movie, where it was like, oh, we're not talking about America saving the day. This is this is England running for their lives and you know doing everything they can. Um, you know, I I'd like seeing World War II stuff in movies, but you know, I don't want to I don't want to hear about how Japan's the bad guy, how Germany's the bad guy, even though you know the Germany technically is the well literally is the bad guy in this movie. But we don't see them. Right, right.

Bryan Lomax 13:35

They're just this even at the beginning where the when the firing on those soldiers at the beginning, we don't see them. Right. We just hear the gunfire and we know where they are. We don't we don't necessarily get to see the mustache twirl in bad guys.

Charles 13:46

Right, and that's something that I really really respected about it, where it's like uh it doesn't matter what you you're running from, be afraid. Yeah, they're coming. Um, to have that was was a really welcome experience for me because you know I I I like experiencing things that I'm interested in from different perspectives. Uh I watched a movie uh when I was in Denmark, a movie came out uh about April 9th, I think. Uh Denmark uh submitted relinquished whatever. Over the course of three hours, they they you know waved the white flag. Germany just marched up there and within four hours it was over. Yeah. They made a movie about that in Denmark. It was really interesting because it's it's not something I I learn about in the US, it's not something that's fitting for a movie at least.

Bryan Lomax 14:35

Like U571, where you get a British story that is then Americanized and and just becomes another American one.

Charles 14:43

That that is a brilliant example. U571 is a it's like I really have fun with that movie. But you know, why not just watch um what U571 copied? What is the movie I'm thinking of?

Bryan Lomax 14:54

The German film. Yeah, Das Boot. Das Boot, yeah.

Charles 14:58

Like um, it's interesting that things that go through America have to have like some sort of Americanization. Like, you know, World War II was a world war well before we even decided to get this off the couch. The Yanks actually came in at the tail end of it just to use the firepower to our third act revealed where were you two years ago, guys? Yeah, so uh you know, having having the element of time, having a a like a big budget American feeling World War II story that surprise has nothing to do with America. It was, I don't know, I I really enjoyed it, and it was I don't know, having it told as by Christopher Nolan. I you know, like let me add more of that.

Bryan Lomax 15:41

I don't know if if if I needed uh a protagonist to roll with like any one character to go with no well, I I didn't the first time I watched it, and even the second time I watched it, like I said, it was about the experience. Yeah, but when something's based purely on the experiential, yeah, one should keep reliving that experience. Something slightly dies, unless you've got a hook to keep you invested. Um, and that's why films have more of an emotional through line in terms of a character I can follow, whose journey I can identify with specifically.

Charles 16:15

To your point though, like the fact that we don't we don't know who the villains are, isn't that like you know, we we don't know we don't have someone to follow, but we also don't we're just running from stuff. We're we're in danger. It doesn't matter who it is, you're in danger. You gotta you gotta go.

Bryan Lomax 16:29

Yeah, and like and like I say, first time around, that works. So second time.

Charles 16:34

I shouldn't watch it again, is what you're saying.

Bryan Lomax 16:36

Yeah, I I'd say just keep it that way.

Charles 16:39

Yeah, just keep it up. Yeah, yeah.

Bryan Lomax 16:43

You know, it's I like I say it was a five-star film for me. It's just watching it this time around and knowing knowing all the peril that they go in. Like, you know, we're gonna get to another film on this list at some point, which is Interstellar, and that hits me s so deeply emotionally. Like it hit me emotionally the first time we saw it, but now as a father, like in in 2014, um, that's that's when my daughter was born. So I I I didn't, you know, I watched it.

Charles 17:11

Like well, yeah. Save the interject.

Bryan Lomax 17:15

It's just yeah, just things things, yeah. I just think it's more than just experiential. There it there is a certain emotional investment that comes from being identified specifically with a particular character.

Charles 17:29

Um at number nine, this is where I kind of tank the averages here. At number nine, you had it at number four, I had it at number eleven. It is a dark knight rises. And this is something I have seen a couple of times, and I I feel like it's it's the inverse of the Odyssey for me, where I feel like the beginning is is very strong and the third act is is less strong. Um that's not to say I'm comparing it to the Odyssey. I just think the Odyssey is its slowest in the beginning. Let me just stay on Dark Knight Rises here too. Um the introduction of Bane, everything going on in Gotham up until Batman's back is broken. I'm like all for it. Um the logic and everything after that. You know, um the second half of the movie has I I enjoy it, don't get me wrong. I I I have a good time with it. The the second half just doesn't match the the build-up and and the the table that was set for the first half. So um that's that's why I have it at 11.

Bryan Lomax 18:49

Yeah, and I have it as high as I do because I'm just a Batman fan.

Charles 18:52

Like it's it's it's like at least you're honest.

Bryan Lomax 18:54

I no, I I hear the criticisms of the Dark Night Rises, and I'm not gonna try and argue against them. I like if you see those criticisms, it's like alright, yeah, I get it.

Charles 19:04

But there has to be a better take of her dying. I'm sorry that it could not be the best take.

Bryan Lomax 19:09

There does have to be a better take. Yeah, I can definitely admit that. Um, but it's no, it's just so my favourite Batman story in the comic books of all time is Nightfall, it's the whole Nightfall storyline, which was the big bane breaking all the inmates out of Akham and breaking Batman's back, and then Batman recovering and coming back. And it's just yeah, this is essentially a a loose kind of adaptation of the Nightfall story, along with a few other famous comic bus stories that have kind of been amalgamated and been nolanised and becoming something. And yeah, from a purely film-making terms, I could see that there are certain things that make this not quite as flawless as the two films that came before it. Um Batman Begins the Dark Knight. I mean, um, not the ones we missed.

Charles 19:58

I mean, if the Dark Knight Rises is the worst movie in a trilogy, you do it quite well.

Bryan Lomax 20:02

Yeah, yeah. So it's just like purely as someone who grew up on Batman, who's he's an absolute Batman fan, who's whose number one movie has always been a Batman movie, depending on which point in my life you you get me at. Um, it it's like I can know I can forgive a lot of sins when it comes to Batman. Um not Schumacher level sins, but uh yeah. I just I'm like Bane's one of my favourite villains in comic books, and I just thought they nailed it. Um even though they made changes in in in a similar that they did with Heath Ledger's Joker. Changes that on paper, if you read them, you're like, you can't do that. That's like fundamentals, and then you're watching it, uh no one knows what he's doing. Um so yeah, for me, just it's a film that while flawed, admittedly, I just I enjoy the heck out of. As a Batman fan, I can watch it again and again and again, and it just won't get old for me.

Charles 21:00

Eight um you have it at seven, I have it at six, and it's the most recent entry on this list, and it's the Odyssey.

Bryan Lomax 21:07

Yeah, yeah, this is definitely the one that has potential to rise. Right. Um and fall, maybe who knows? But I I'm just like it's it's certainly been on my brain a lot since I watched it. Likewise. And it's it's one of those movies where you re you think over a lot of scenes. There's a lot of scenes that keep coming back, and you're like, oh yeah, yeah. So I think like I think the the likelihood is that it is gonna rise. Um I just it was it was touch and go anyway, between this one and the next one on my list as to those positions. And the only reason the one I put above it is above it is because I have seen it multiple times and it and and it it remained consistently great from the previous viewing.

Charles 21:54

So do you know what the runtime of Magnolia is?

Bryan Lomax 21:58

It's like three hours, yeah.

Charles 22:00

Yeah, so Magnolia, Wolf of Wall Street and and Now the Odyssey are are three movies that are around three hours that just don't feel it. No. Um I I remember people saying, you know, before I I saw I I ended up being sick, so I had to see the Odyssey a little late. Um people saying it's kind of slow in the beginning. And by the time it it picked up, I was like, what are these people talking about? It's it's been like 20 minutes and we're rolling. It feels like, you know, for maybe the first 15-20 minutes, it it gets you to a cliff, and then just from that moment on, it it rolls very quickly. And it feels like every little set piece in the Odyssey is its own little mini movie where you know we're here, we're doing this, and it has its own thing. And the thing that I'm I am absolutely impressed with, uh again, a three-hour movie that that does not feel it. For like the middle hour there, it's a horror movie. Yeah, a lot of the way that movie is presented and and shot, and you know, uh the the trauma and things that are happening there feel very horrific and are even presented. Like even when you know when it goes to Haiti, the people crawling out of the ground, it's like really scary. Um, people saying that Nolan wouldn't be able to do horror. He he I think he just did.

Bryan Lomax 23:20

He's just done, he just did like that that Cersei Cersei Cersei Cersei scene where she's moulding the faces into animal. Oh, yeah, the dicks.

Charles 23:30

That was just like oh and the foley work too. Like, can you guys not eat like that?

Bryan Lomax 23:35

And just the brutality of Samantha Martin's performance, as she's like really ragging this guy's face, like close-ups of faces and stuff. Like, how did you do that in camera? That's wild. Yeah, definitely like the most horrific scene so far this year.

Charles 23:50

Yeah, yeah. And you know, when when all that is done, it's still oh, yeah, by the way, there's another hour left, and it's it's pretty incredible. Yeah. Uh you know, with it not very I I like I said, I'd like to see it again, but it it's cruised, yeah. Absolutely cruised, and and I uh every little scent piece felt like its own movie, and and they themselves were and and and Nolan never lost sight of the personal journey as well.

Bryan Lomax 24:19

Like and just that that always remains the main focus is is that it's just trying to get back. What is it that's keeping him from getting back? And like you know, learning that it's it's not just about events conspiring against him, there's other things at play there. It's like, oh okay, and that that really makes it uh it just keeps that personal through line.

Charles 24:43

The other thing about about like Robert Pattinson's character, just slowly but surely becoming more and more a prick where you're like, Man, I you're an ass. Like I'm enjoying hating you. Yeah. Yeah, it's just uh a really, really surprising. Usually when I hear run times, I'm like, oh, you you better make it important. And um I it I probably could have done with another. I'm not saying that you know it needs to be, but yeah, another half an hour or so, I I would have been alright at that pace that it was going.

Bryan Lomax 25:15

Um every time I looked at Robert Pattinson in this, I was like, How can this dude be Batman? Right. There's nothing about him in this that says Batman.

Charles 25:25

He's been a chameleon for about 10 years now, since good time. Yeah, I at l every time I see him in something, I'm like, I I disrespected you. I I'm I'm sorry.

Bryan Lomax 25:34

Um just goes to show, guys, just disrespect the content, not the not everyone involved in the making of the content.

Charles 25:42

Yeah, and uh you know, Twilight was uh was a was a thing in the past.

Bryan Lomax 25:47

Scripted by someone else, directed by someone else. He showed up, he did his part, move on.

Charles 25:54

Number seven for us as a movie, you have at nine, and I have at four, and it is the prestige where I'm I'm kind of curious to hear why you have this so so low. I I don't know.

Bryan Lomax 26:07

Uh it it does seem very it seems ridiculous to have it down there, but again, it's just it's the strength of the filmmaking. This is a five-star film for me. Prestige is a five-star film for me. Um just one of the greatest movies about obsession. Uh just these two characters who are so consumed by a mutual obsession for each other that everything else in their life just gets wiped out, just gets thrown to the floor. It's just it's yeah, the the the corrosive side of obsession is just really scrutinised in this film. It's and it's and it's brilliant. Brilliant performance from Hugh Jackman, brilliant performance from uh Christian Bale. I I I don't know about anyone else, and I don't know if it's purposeful or whether whether you're meant to, and that's part of the trick that no one's pulling, but I always saw the twist with Christian Bale's character coming, where he's yeah, spoilers by the way, but come on, guys. 20 years, guys. 20 years get on it. So the fact if if you don't want any spoilers, move on, like 20 seconds. The fact that Christian Bale's character he's two people, yeah, right. He's twin brothers. Yeah, like I saw I saw that.

Charles 27:21

The theme was all over the movie, like right down to the birds and things.

Bryan Lomax 27:25

Yeah, so it's it's just something I'm always just interested in hearing other people's perspectives. Was that was that a surprise to you when you first noticed? Was that a was that a twist? Or you're like, well, yeah, of course that's Chris Christian Bale playing two roles.

Charles 27:37

Um I don't I don't know if you can remember, but like oh um no, I I I feel like the the movie set that up pretty well. I if anything, I thought it was something of a misdirect Christian Bale's thing.

Bryan Lomax 27:56

Yeah, that's what I felt like. I felt like so all the like all the way through, I'm I'm looking at the the brother, the boat Bordens, yeah, and I'm like I can I can literally see the body language, I can see the facial structure, I'm like, that's Christian Bale. And plus the way he was shooting it, yeah. Yeah, you know. So the whole way through, I'm like, that's Christian Bale. Right. That's the twist. That's gonna be the twist. That's Christian Bale right there. So then like the that twist happens, and I'm like, oh okay, yeah, well, I saw that coming in my life, but then the real twist is like, oh, Hubert Jackman's character is actually the movie opens at all the beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but the whole time you're expecting that to be explained in the way that a proper trick is explained, not for it to actually be what they're telling us it is. So it is this kind of rug pull of like, no, he is actually recreating himself, killing the and it's just like so that was so the first time I watched Prestige, I was just none of it it just it didn't gel with me in that in that way, like emotionally, it did all the way through the obsession stuff, then the one-upmanship did all the way through, and then when the twist thing happened right at the end, I was kind of blindsided where I didn't know how I felt about it, and then when I watched it second time, that's when it really hit, and I was like, ah, of course, that's the point. That's the point.

Charles 29:16

It's like the whole thing told you what he's gonna tell you, and then he's told you what he's told you he's gonna tell you, but because you've not been listening, it's like you get upset because well it's it's it it's it's also the the the the bird trick where the little kid is like where where's the other bird? And he goes, Oh, oh, smart. It's two different ways to do the trick where you know when they go back, there's a bunch of birds at the uh you know, at the wherever the hell they're living, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But you know, one way to do it is to kill the bird, and another way to do it is to have a duplicate. Yeah, and the movie kind of yeah, that's the way they they, you know, Christian Bale has a duplicate, and um, you know, Hugh Jackman just kills other two jackmans.

Bryan Lomax 30:01

He does both.

Charles 30:02

Yeah, the more I watch that movie, the more I'm like, I I think I like this even more. Like I had a discussion with someone where they're like, um, there should have been more I I I forgot what um his character's name is. Uh um David Bowies. No um Michael Cain. Michael Kine. What what was his character's name? I can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember. So the person I was talking to was like, well, he should have done something about uh Hugh Jackman's wife drowning. And I'm like, that's what that's why this movie doesn't work for you. Yeah, because he had an axe they they show you them preparing for the trick with her on the water, and he has an axe ready and he like he times whatever. Yeah. And he goes, Well, if if they showed you him preparing with an axe, he should have been the first one to to knock uh uh you know, her to knock her out when she was drowning. But you know, in between those two scenes, there's a discussion there where he says, If I can see that you're you're not, then people in the front row can. So what the movie is telling you is that Michael Cain's character shouldn't be able to see the knot. And part of that whole issue was what what type of knot did you tie?

Bryan Lomax 31:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charles 31:30

So they they were all kind of arrogant about it too, or even the you know, the the girlfriend who ended up dying was like, Yeah, let's let's try it this way. And I don't it was such an inconsequential moment of the movie where like I you're focusing on that.

Bryan Lomax 31:47

That's just one of those things where people just they really want to be the smartest person in the room, so they find things that they can go, they can tear it down with so that they can go, I'm smarter than Nail and actually. It's like okay, well, go and write and direct something out to track Caliban.

Charles 32:01

Like that was the problem with like I went and watched this movie, I watched that scene three or four times, and I'm like, I I actually like this movie more now because of this thing that I'm looking at that really means nothing to me.

Bryan Lomax 32:13

You're making a something out of nothing, yeah.

Charles 32:16

And it it has, it's it's picked up quite a bit. Every time I watched it, I'm like, man, I think I like this more. It's it's a great film.

Bryan Lomax 32:23

I mean, like everyone who knows me knows I'm biggest novel fact. Like, so for me, like every film from the prestige, including the prestige onwards on my list is five stars. Yeah, it's like it's it's the most five stars I've given to any director, which is nine, nine five, five star movies.

Charles 32:41

Theme thematically, it's something of a dry run for Inception too, which yeah, I'm I'm well.

Bryan Lomax 32:46

I feel like Inception is technically a remake of following, but just on a mass budget. So I'll explain that in a bit.

Charles 32:53

Um will you explain it? No, you will not. Um number six is Brian's number three, it's my number nine, it's Batman Begins.

Bryan Lomax 33:04

It's perfect origin story. Perfect superhero origin story. It's like um it it's is it's really the first time that the hero character became the focus of the origin story rather than just a stepping stone to get to the main villain who was gonna be the big colourful wife of the film. Um they they kind of did it with Toby Maguire's Spider-Man uh just a few years before, but it was they they were very quick to get him into the superpowers, into the yeah, and I just don't think it like I love Spider-Man, I think it's great, but it's just it's not quite as deep. Doesn't doesn't quite get under the skin as on such a deep level as what we get with Bruce Wayne in this movie. Ultimately it is about like Spider-Man ultimately ends up just being about uh the teenager at school is wants a girlfriend, you know, it's it's those shallow level kind of teenage problems, whereas this is like you know, big themes about fear and vengeance, and like when it when a j are justice and vengeance, can they be the same thing? Can you can you bring them together? Do they have to be separated and and what what's required for true justice?

Charles 34:24

And um I didn't realize what I needed from a Batman movie was to show me how he got to be so sm like strong and shit, like like the first 20 minutes or so, and like you know, when he's trying to steal stuff or what is it, the the the box that has nothing but but stuff from his business. Uh like that was stuff that it was the first time I've seen something like that in a a superhero film. And um I didn't realize I needed that sort of setup for for Bruce Wayne and and the Batman character, but and I I really appreciated it. I like I used to dig you know the Bat Cave and all the fun gadgets and stuff, but you know, seeing him get strong and and you know how he's able to do the things that he does.

Bryan Lomax 35:11

Seeing the reason for the Batcave. Sure. Seeing the reason for those gadgets and things like that. Like just the thing where they where they ordered 10,000 units of the thing that makes the mask. Right. Just like the yeah, think thinking about of course, if you're gonna get away with making this stuff and not be not be tracked down, like you would have to do it on an industrial level scale in order to hide your and and that and you know having having our our protagonist, our hero, be someone where it's like, yeah, he's doing this, and he's also got his own fears and stuff.

Charles 35:43

I I can't recall any superhero movie where it was like they're doing this because of you know something within themselves as far as like fear is concerned. I I don't know if I just needed a movie to hold your hand and tell you, but I I I can't remember a movie prior to Batman Begins saying, like, yeah, I I'm I'm going to be the thing that that I fear I I forgot what the the line was where people are going to see what I fear or something like that. It was just a really neat line.

Bryan Lomax 36:12

Criminal's gonna fear my my share my dread. Right, yeah, yeah. Just before he throws the barang, but yeah, it's just I I dig that. But I I I I mean I love what Nolan does with the villains throughout the Dark Knight trilogy as well, is that that it's not just ah let's let's pick a cool villain and we'll build a story. No, it's like he's he's picked the villains that that work thematically with what he's discussing, so it's like you've got fear in begins, chaos in the dark night, and then pain in the dark night rises, and he's picked the perfect villains to really dig into those themes. So, like just you know Scarecrow being an obvious one when you're dealing with fear, but Rachel Ghoul. But you know what a brilliant but even Rachel Ghoul, a villain that like most non-Batman, you know, if you're not deep in comic books and stuff, Rachel Ghoul is right or Razal Ghoul as they changed him to in the it's supposed to be pronounced Raish, but whatever. I'll let you off Nolan. But um it's just well like Rachel Ghoul is like the way he's used in the film. It's all it's always about looking at that theme that that runs throughout the entire movie if they're you know, coming in post-9-11 kind of um dissection of what where people were at at that time. It's just like, yeah, it just he he picked the right villains for it, they were there for a purpose. It wasn't just hey, Green Goblin is is the number one Spider-Man villain, so obviously we've gotta have him in, you know, it's like Joker is Batman's number one film. So, yeah, well actually we're gonna save him, but when he's relevant, we're gonna deal with these villains because they're actually relevant to the the themes that I'm trying to discuss here. Oh, okay, cool. I just genius.

Charles 37:57

Unpopular take, but I thought Katie Holmes was a better version of that character.

Bryan Lomax 38:02

So do I. Sorry. Yeah, sorry guys. So do I. Me and my friend Clayton, we we agree. We're I there's something about Maggie Jill and Hall in The Dark Knight for some reason that's just a bit too I don't know what the word is. Yeah, she's a little odd. Um yeah, I might be smitten.

Charles 38:23

I I'll show my cards. I might be smitten for Katie Holmes, but I I just I I didn't have problems with her in that movie the way people did.

Bryan Lomax 38:31

I never did until people like like I would I wouldn't even be questioning her performance in that movie if if people aren't been so like Katie Holmes is such the weak link in the film, yeah. Really? Okay, yeah, I never thought that. And I think if if I see anything in her performance in that film that is like not great, I feel like I'm seeing it because I've been told to. So now I'm I'm always looking at her more than I should be because people have told me I should. And I and I do hate that fact. I hate the fact that whenever I see Batman begins, I'm always looking at Katie Holmes more intently. Well I'm looking for different reasons, but yes, I agree. Whereas you know, if if there hadn't been any discussion on that, it wouldn't even be it'd be a non- Yeah, yeah.

Charles 39:18

Talking about things that are a surface level that really probably don't need to be discussed. It's oh, it's a callback to a different video. Sorry. Um coming in at number five. Uh the group, the group average is five, but we both have it at six. Yeah, it's uh Oppenheimer. Yeah, the old longest one. Is it wait? Is it still the long no, it's it's it's Odyssey now.

Bryan Lomax 39:42

Odyssey is just it just gets longer with every film, and it's just people talking in a room for three hours. I don't know how you did it, Chris, but uh it shouldn't be interesting. And the thing is as well, is that some of those rooms aren't even that interesting. No, because like when talk about scaling down with a massive budget, because the the whole thing when he's having the private hearings, the one like the one where his wife turns up to Kitty, is it? So she turns up to give testimony, and they're literally just in a room not much bigger than the one we're in now, right? With blank walls, just office furniture to sit on it. Like it's it's it's the the setup for most student films, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, and and yet he achieves something that's highly cinematic um and deeply emotionally resonant.

Charles 40:34

Um this is giving me a reason to swing back to Odyssey for a split second, and I kind of hope that Christopher Nolan isn't getting in the habit of doing this. I could have done without the the nudity in Oppenheimer, but uh artistically I understand why he did the scene that he did, especially with you know Oppenheimer nude in the in those those room sequences. Um you know growing up on horror and stuff, you think people just are nude because you know it's a it's a slasher, you need to be nude, but yeah, uh artistically the person's exposed and it it's it's uh you know a literal representation of of them and not having anything to to to hide behind. Um in the Odyssey there was something close to a a a a romantic scene. And I I really hope that there isn't uh some sort of habit growing here because in Oppenheimer I I I didn't need I didn't need the romance scenes, uh especially the the nude ones.

Bryan Lomax 41:41

Yeah, I I just I just didn't need to see them having sex.

Charles 41:44

Right, right.

Bryan Lomax 41:44

I look like I I'm okay to I get that we have to see that these characters are going out at it behind because it's an indiscretion. You know, we we need to see that this guy is flawed, yeah, he's a genius, but he's cheating on his wife, so he's not he's not a perfect human being. But there's there's ways you can shoot that without having to see um what what's the actress's name now? I forgot her name. Florence we don't need to see Florence Pugh's bare ass. Right. We don't need to see her breast hanging out. There's a way you can shoot a sex scene where, okay, we know they're having sex, now we cut to the next scene. They've had sex, so we know he's cheating on his wife. Great. That's all the information we need. We don't need a lingering shot. I know some people will argue, oh, I'll always have a lingering shot on Florence Pew's ass. But for the sake of watching a movie, you know, what you want to do in your private time, fair enough. I just want to go see a story that's character driven.

Charles 42:35

I don't need to see right, and that's that's the thing I I quite appreciate from Christopher Nolan where what 11 of his movies, it's it's it there's there's not like romance nudity or something like that, and it it's not like there is in the Odyssey, there's just one little scene where I'm like, you didn't need to do like that.

Bryan Lomax 42:54

You get a film like The Dark Knight, there's a 12 over here, and it's like it it he he pushes the envelope in terms of what you should be doing with a 12, where it's like, but but it but it's great, it's like you got you go as dark as you can go, but you don't get to the point where you've tipped over into the 15 scale. Um, and I just feel like Oppenheimer wouldn't be a 15 if not for those sex scenes. Right. Like, I mean I'm sure there was some language in there, I can't quite remember the level. I don't remember it as being the film where it's F this, F that, or whatever. So um for me, I feel like you take those nudity shots out, you take the sex scene out, I'll re-shoot shoot it in a different way. That film's a 12. Um, and it's just yeah.

Charles 43:44

Yeah, it's just something that it's not like it's not like I'm saying the movie's bad for it. It it's just something that I I don't think it adds anything to the film because you can you can have nudity like him him topless, you don't see as his Johnson or anything in that that room stuff. Sequence, you can give off so much information with that.

Bryan Lomax 44:04

It's not an even what's the word? It's not balanced. When you've got a guy sat there with his top off and a girl sat there with a top off, she's more exposed than he is. Yep. And it's so it's not it's not like, oh, well, there's the trade. Look, they're both no, it's that's not an even trade. Right. Um so it's just like, yeah, uh we we we didn't need to see Florence Pugh's bits in the in that film.

Charles 44:33

The the bomb sequence at the end is is fantastic. Just wanted to talk about something positive.

Bryan Lomax 44:39

Uh the whole the whole film's great. I mean, we s we spent so much time on a sex scene, but we like in a three-hour movie, that's there's talking. Yeah, there's lots of talking. You're talking like 30 seconds of stuff in what is otherwise a three-hour movie in which everything else is great, brilliant character development, excellent dialogue, um, just the story structure, the back and forth, you know, back to the timeline stuff that Nolan's likes so much, just works with um for what he's trying to tell us, what he's trying to show us. It's just yeah, it's a fun phenomenal character journey, and you you feel a whole spectrum of emotions for this man who created one of the most devastating weapons of well, the most devastating weapon of human history, and yet you're still looking at him by the end of it as a human being who you know, and you and you feel for the guy because it's like if he hadn't made it, someone else would. And on one hand, we've got to be thankful that it was him who made it and not some Nazi scientist somewhere, and it's just like okay, it's it's just yeah. The the atom bomb is an evil, but thankfully it was created by someone who understood that fact that now if the person who created AI was only smarter.

Charles 46:00

Uh number four for the group, which is number five for both of us is tenet.

Bryan Lomax 46:07

Yeah. I'm surprised you have this this high.

Charles 46:10

Um I i it's uh poor man's inception, but it's it's great. It's really not, but it I yeah I you know the time travel and the um I I it it confuses me. I don't think I completely understand it, but I I really kind of dig the the effort and the I I yeah, the the effort more than anything and the execution is is wild. Like there's things that I'm not even sure I understand, but you know, there's still some big ideas in there, and um still a big action movie. The the highway sequence is incredible. Um so that there's there's some heavy stuff and there's some regular old um action movie stuff, and uh that's kind of what I love about Inception. It's it's it's a bit of everything, but we're talking about Tenet right now.

Bryan Lomax 47:05

I'm just gonna get a real full-size 747 and smash it into a building. So who else has the power to say that and and and do it and pull it up? Yeah, it I I love Tenet. For me, I'm more emotionally connected to it than I am with Inception, and that's why for me it's just it just I Inception is one of those films where it's just it's so clever in how it's written in that. Um, and I wouldn't say I'm emotionally disengaged, but I would just say it's like despite all its smart, I would say that tenant is on some levels less smart in in its execution. Like I think I feel like if if you look at it too much, if you just just you spend all your time just trying to wrap your head around the the mechanics of it, right? You will find holes and go, no, that's it, I'm done. But if you just feel it, if you feel what it wants you to feel, um then I just I can get around any little minor imperfections and just go on the journey and go, actually, yeah, no, that that does make me feel something that's that's like rewarding, it rewards repeat viewings, um, and just in terms of big Hollywood spectacle doing something that we've not seen before, um, you know, character interacting, a character going forward through time, interacting with the characters going backwards through time, and fighting, just yeah, just just say that to me. Yeah, like I'm like, all right, I'm gonna leave that up to someone else to figure that out. Exactly. That's not in my capacity to figure that out.

Charles 48:43

I think that's part of the thing about it too, is like I like when I'm I'm seeing it, I'm I'm trying to figure out how do you describe this as someone? You can't, and it's like uh thank you. I I I don't know how you feel, but but thank you for doing something so bizarre.

Bryan Lomax 48:58

Conceptually, it's brilliant. I think uh character-wise, it's brilliant. I love uh John David Washington in it. Uh, I think his his character I really enjoy.

Charles 49:08

Um Robert Pattinson, yeah.

Bryan Lomax 49:10

Robert Pattinson's phenomenal in it, even though he's in a tiny role. I think Kenneth Branham makes a fantastic villain in it as well. Just this guy who's like, if I'm going down, I'm taking the whole world with me. Um is it is it Elizabeth DeBicke, I think, who's placed the Mike. I think I forgot. I think so. I always get confused between her and Mrs. Fantasy, the Invisible Woman from recent Fantastic Woven. Yeah, I get it. No, it's not it's not it's I think it's Elizabeth DeBicke, it's Elizabeth Bickey. Um Kirby, somebody Kirby Vanessa Kirby is fantastic four. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, I I think Elizabeth De Bickey I get like a real emotional connection to in the film. I think they do a good job of like just her plight, she's the victim in it all. She's the one who's kind of caught between everyone's machinations, and all she just wants to do is get out with a kid. Um, so you understand like some of the places she she goes to or feels she has to go to, like um extreme measures and things. But yeah, I I love it. I just think it's an original piece of work that does things we've not seen before on the screen, a big screen. Um, and like, yeah, if it's got a few little minor flaws in it due to the technicalities of trying to work out machinery of it, I don't like get over it.

Charles 50:30

It's it's one of the ones where I I I'm up for re-watching it. I it there's something that I'm always paying attention to, and it's not something that I can watch and and have someone else in the room talking during.

Bryan Lomax 50:40

So no, no, they have to be out. Leave the room.

Charles 50:43

If you're not what if you're not engaging, get out, please. I'm gonna start thinking and smoke's gonna come out of my head. Like, I that's something that I I don't mind re-watching. I'd like I would I'm open for the idea. It's just I I need to every time I watch it, there's something else picking up on.

Bryan Lomax 50:58

And there is a lot in there that it's saying as well that speaks to me on just a personal level, just in terms of like the best way I'd equate it to is d destiny is what you call the thing. Um the is what is is what you call the future that someone embraces despite the fact that it's out of their control, and fate is what somebody would call the future, despite the fact that it's out of their control. They're the same thing, but it's about perspective. And you've got like Kenneth Brannett's character, he's he's the one who looks at things from a fate perspective, where it's all it's all going to shit, and I can't do it about it. So I'm gonna I'm gonna punch the world for it. Whereas Robert Patterson's character, it's like there's a dude who knows he's going to his death. He knows what his fake or his in this case his destiny is, but he sees the bigger picture and he knows that there's value in even even if even if the rhyme's on the wall on that. Because of my perspective, I can go to it gladly because there's a bigger picture, it's not just about me. Um and I I so all that stuff really speaks to me, internet. Um so yeah.

Charles 52:17

Um on to three, which is your number two and my number eight, and it's interstellar. Um, I will reiterate uh or I'll start my story why it's so low for me. Um this is just personal bias and uh it's some sort of spite or something that I have. It's it's eight for me. Interstellar came out in 2014, which is the year my father died. Um and I remember I didn't expect this to be such a you know a father child heavy story. And I I went into this movie not realizing what you know some of the some of the subject matter was, and I wasn't ready for uh dramatic or emotional sequences like what happened in the movie. And it's just something that I I I kind of shut off to. And um you know, for a a science fiction film, for you know, it I I I I I'm okay with it. The emotion stuff, I just I I I I am not ready. I I I've I've rewatched it and after re-watching it, I'm like, oh, I I know why there's just like this cold spot for this movie that I I just it's an unfortunate thing. I mean, if I watched something else that had some sort of relationship like that, maybe I I wouldn't feel the same way about this, but there's this like this funky stench on this movie that I forever associate with with that.

Bryan Lomax 53:48

That I don't know, with a couple more viewings, I might be able to it is very interesting to see mine and your perspective on it, just because 2014, when this film came out, it's also the year that my daughter was born. It's just I mean, like, you want to talk about subjectivity of film and how our life experiences shape the way we view things, you know, that's a year of death for you, and for me, it's a year of of life, right? And it's like my daughter was born in that year, and I see this film about a father trying to get back home to his daughter and his son, and it's just like and that and and the feelings that that arise that arise in me when I watch that back then, just having that the one you know baby that has yet to say any words or have a full-on personality to watching it just a couple of weeks ago, where now my daughter's 12, my son's seven, and hold conversations with them, like they mean more to me now. And I know that sounds weird to say, like you know, when they're babies, of course they mean everything to me. But as they get older and you've vet invested so much of your life into them, to lose them at that that this sounds horrible to say, but to lose them at that point is so much worse than if I'd have lost them as a baby. For sure. Just because again, the more and more investment you've put in, the more they've grown, the more the personal and it's just and seeing that in and then that scene in Interstellar where he just loses all of that within the space of a video because he goes to a planet and it comes back up and boom, they've lost 14 years. It's like the idea that I could lose like a 14-year gap in my child, like it's just and it and McConaughey's reaction to it is just like a punch in the nuts. Um, and then and then the the closing line with his daughter when when she says, like, you know, and I I knew you were coming back, and he says, How? And it's like because my my dad promised me. Like I feel myself going now, just on that. That just hits me because I'm a dad now. Like, and it's just it is, it's just it's it it is the the f of all Nolan's films, it is the one that hits me emotionally more than any other. And from the sound of it, it is with you as well. Yeah, let me just that it because it hits you in a way that you don't want to be facing.

Charles 56:25

Let me put a wet blanket on on everything you're talking about. Keep in mind, he has two children in that movie, and it's all about his daughter. Casey Affleck, you know, he's he's kind of uh not much communication between Casey Affleck and Matt Matthew McConaughey. Once Matthew McConaughey's character is in space, it's all you know, there's this situation with him and the daughter, but I think the son's a foregone conclusion.

Bryan Lomax 56:53

Well, from a character from a character standpoint, and this is the way I like and I always look at it and defend it, is is that there's a reparation that needs to happen there between father and daughter, whereas there isn't between father and son. The son's kind of accepted it, and we see that because of the videos. He knows that because his son's still sending him videos, his daughter doesn't send him videos, and then when she does send him, it's to berate him and say what what the you know. So there's this yeah, between the father and son, there's no reparation that needs to happen.

Charles 57:24

Um but but I I'll give you my perspective from from the father and son, he's he's not concerned about his son.

Bryan Lomax 57:33

But it it I think it's unfair to say he's not concerned about his son because we can't see what's in his head.

Charles 57:40

The focus of the movie is my daughter, my daughter, my daughter. I get that, yeah. And so like that again, bringing my baggage, yeah. It's like, oh, yeah, this is telling me things that I don't want to think about because my father didn't die of natural causes. So um it it just kind of I I I I realize I'm reading into things, like absolutely, but it's like, oh, why is he more um why is this more about him getting back to his daughter? He has a son too, and it's just it's it's something that I don't know if I could ever pull away from, but it's just ironic that he has two children in that movie, but so what the daughter.

Bryan Lomax 58:21

No, I I I I do get it.

Charles 58:22

If I was a girl, it'd be a different story.

Bryan Lomax 58:26

I get it. Um, I just again, um, as a father with two kids, um and this could be a mistake on my part, I fully accept that. Um there are certain things that oftentimes I need to say to one that I don't need to say to the other because uh the the one is looking for certain assurances, whereas the other one I can tell isn't. Um and and and to me, when I when I look at the film, it is just that thing that he knows the relationship with his daughter's been severed. Whereas in those 14 years that he lost, the son was still sending videos, the son was still um I don't know where you are, but I'm I'm still with you. So it's in his head, it's not you know, like we can't see what's in his head, but he to me he loves them both. It's just that he's desperate to get to his daughter and say, I I do, I love you, I love ya. Like and and it may be false to say that I'm a son doesn't need to hear that, but he knows she needs to hear it because she's all but washed her hands of him and and and told him that she feels abandoned. Um so for me it's just that's why the focus kind of shifts to the daughter, because there is that specific.

Charles 59:48

What what what do you take of the the son not leaving the house? What what was that about? I'm trying to remember because he like he wouldn't leave the house.

Bryan Lomax 1:00:00

Well, he didn't want his he didn't want his kid, did he, to go and to because his kid had a cough.

Charles 1:00:06

Right.

Bryan Lomax 1:00:06

And he wanted to keep them in the house because he's clinging on.

Charles 1:00:09

Because he made a promise to his dad?

Bryan Lomax 1:00:11

I I've I'm trying to remember what I think it's because it's because he's just he's clinging on to a way of life that is just gone. He's cling he's he's representative of those people on Earth who can't see the the writing's on the wall. Right. The sis the sister is she knows that we can't stay here. It's it's done, it's over. We got we gotta start looking to the stars, and he's it's just more it's showing that no, he's we're burying his head in the sand, we can carry on. And so that's why she burns his crops. Because that's the that's the one way to get him out of the house. Because as far as he's concerned, as long as we can plant these crappy crops on on this planet, then this is this is the planet that we call home, and it's just like she hits him where it hurts, which is yeah.

Charles 1:01:01

Another movie that you could look at it from the uh global warming perspective, but I don't think that's the chief concern of this movie.

Bryan Lomax 1:01:08

No, no, no.

Charles 1:01:09

Um number two. You had it at number eight, I had it at number one, it is Inception. This is my favorite movie of all time.

Bryan Lomax 1:01:20

And it's a five-star movie for me as well.

Charles 1:01:23

Um, yeah, uh no notes. Uh I I I love that this movie is is kind of petty. It it's it's uh it's a thinker, and it's it's quite a brilliant action action film. The the the elevator sequence, the the hallway fight scene, uh the the way everything kind of syncs up. Some there's people on YouTube who have like synced up the timing and all the different layers. Um I don't know. I I i if if that's shallow for for like a heady movie, I that's my kind of heady movie where it it's it's still grounded enough where you know it it's it it can it can still be entertaining and not lose you in in some of the uh in the minutia of the like you know it yeah, they they go into dream worlds and here's this metal suitcase that you know you just you just take the string and you know attach it to your wrist because that's how you fall asleep. Fine. I I don't I don't need to know that the tech behind it. Right. They fall asleep and that's where things really go up go, you know. That's w how this how they're in the same dream, fine. I'm I'm fine with it. Um and the the stories with with within that movie and and the themes within that movie is is fascinating. All the different discussions. Um it's it's one of those movies that you know what does does the top spit does it stop spinning or not? Doesn't it doesn't matter? I I don't think it matters. And and like furthermore, that's not his token. The top is is Maul's token. The wedding ring is his token. And if you watch that movie again, that's how you know he's dreaming, is when he has the wedding ring on.

Bryan Lomax 1:03:08

And and going off that, is is it even his dream? Or is it her dream? Very good point. Because she's the one who's like, yeah, you know, she's gonna top herself because you know, whatever she's experiencing and whatnot, and maybe in her dream it's that her family is happy without her, that they can survive without her.

Charles 1:03:33

That's a wild take. I don't have I never thought of that. That's awesome.

Bryan Lomax 1:03:37

But it's um but but that's again, that's why I love the film so much. Because it's like there is no wrong take, there is no right. Did it wobble at the end? Yeah, did it wobble at the end? No, who cares? Is that if you if you it's the blade runner thing, is it replicant or not? Yeah, it doesn't matter, it only matters to you. It's like whatever your answer is, that's the right answer. Yeah, um, it's like it's it's purposefully ambiguous.

Charles 1:04:03

Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like it does it change the quality of the movie if if it's one or the other, does it change the quality of the movie?

Bryan Lomax 1:04:11

Not at all. Not at all. It's just yeah, it's just it's it's again, like I say, it's a five-star film. Um I the only reason it's not higher for me. Because there's a bunch of Batman movies you guys. One, there's a bunch of Batman movies, and two, it's just it um I can forgive flaws in like I can have a movie that's more flawed, um technically, but if it hits me on a deeper emotional because that's what I go to the cinema for, I want to feel something. Absolutely. Um and like like I I I feel mesmerized by inception. I I feel in awe of what Nolan's doing from an intellectual standpoint, um, and that's great, but like Interstellar makes me cry four times. And it's just like you know, I know I'm feeling something on a really deep level with Interstellar. So, like whatever flaws people want to dig up, oh but what about this? Dude, I cried four times.

Charles 1:05:14

That's so um, like it's funny. I don't think I I don't think I have um a movie like that where I don't think Christopher Nolan has been someone to make me feel emotions like that. It's it's interesting, yeah, yeah.

Bryan Lomax 1:05:26

Um but uh going oh yeah, like for me it's the the wife stuff, the Marianne Cotilla stuff. I think because most of what we see with her is when she's already in a fallen state. Yeah, she's like it's all it's all from Cobb's memories. So there's she's you know, the wiring's starting to go really, and she's there's always something off about her. And I think obviously it's it's I mean it's a long film. Anyway, so it's like to start adding stuff. Um it's is it necessary? No.

Charles 1:06:06

Um, but like I think just to to get me more emotionally attached to her so that her decline becomes more tragic for me in how I feel, like to see what they were like as a proper married couple before him uh but she she's literally his projection of her, and yeah, yeah, she's kind of there to to haunt him because he's he's got some guilt for what happened with her.

Bryan Lomax 1:06:34

So uh but that it just it just it gives me like a certain level of emotional disconnect from her, which which doesn't matter too much because everything else in the film is so grand, is so you know, it's so much spectacle spectacle, it's so intelligently written and and and you know accomplished. It's like okay, so so I'm not quite as emotionally invested with that character as I'd like to be. Everything else is just so damn good, it's like alright, okay, whatever, it's still a five-star film.

Charles 1:07:05

Yeah, I don't know if the movie would want you to experience what's great about their I mean they do minor moments, it's more yeah, uh, you know, he kind of he he uh gaslit her into thinking something, and that that's the important part.

Bryan Lomax 1:07:20

I I I'm all for it, but yeah, I don't think there's an argument here on the subject of in Inception being essentially a high budget remake of following, it's like both both characters in those in in both movies are called Cobb, and the whole ethos behind those characters is about implanting an idea in someone else's head.

Charles 1:07:42

Sure.

Bryan Lomax 1:07:43

So like you look at following, it's like the whole time his mode's operandi, so to speak, is about getting this our main character to to believe something, as if it was his own, you know. He th he thinks he's making choices all through that movie until it's revealed at the end that he never was, he was always a patsy. He was always Cobb was putting ideas in his head and making him believe it. Um and essentially that's what Inception is, it's like that's that's who Cobb is, that's what his that's what his job is, that's why he gets hired, and it's just like you can see the seeds of Inception right there in following.

Charles 1:08:21

Um so well, it's it's wild that Inception is what we got because of our number one film, which is your number one film and my number two film. We wouldn't have Inception if we didn't have the Dark Knight. That was a uh a trade-off from Chris Nolan that he wouldn't do the dark night unless he got Inception. Like, how how do we get to it?

Bryan Lomax 1:08:45

It was Dark Knight Rises, so he was already doing Dark Knight. Um is that is that so off the success of the Dark Knight, he wanted to do Inception and then he's Warner Brothers was like, we gotta have a third, we've got to have a third Batman film, have a third Batman film, and he's like, Right, well, okay, I'll do Dark Knight Rises, but let me do Inception first. They're like, I knew it was one of those ridiculous, yeah.

Charles 1:09:13

But um, yeah, The Dark Knight, the my favorite uh comic book movie ever.

Bryan Lomax 1:09:20

Yeah, same. My favorite movie ever.

Charles 1:09:23

So see, I you you ask me on this list if I could re-watch any of these movies again for the first time. I I'm going to say they're Dark Knight. And I'm trying to think if if I'm stuck in that because Heath Ledger was dead already by the time the movie premiered. And there was already like buzz behind it, like, oh, he he he did really well. And I don't know if it was on those posthumous things where it was just like, oh, this is the last big performance, let's let's work around it. But um that that experienced um I I I don't know what it was about that movie that it was Heath Ledger's performance, the fact that it was kind of heat for the first five minutes. Um a lot of the sequence in the middle, the the score, the soundtrack, um the I've never seen a truck flip an 18-wheeler trip end over end like that. There's just things that happen in that movie where all of those things that have happened in that movie they happen for the first time, and I don't know, when you experience something awe-inspiring in a movie, you're like that first time you you would really like to feel it again. And in that movie, more than anything that I can think of, on this list at least, uh, there's so many moments in that movie where I'm like, I'm not really completely I'm not the Batman fan you are, but I enjoyed Batman Begins. Um I didn't think of Christopher Nolan as as anything really you know noteworthy at that moment. Um but going through that and at the end, it was just like that was that was really kind of special.

Bryan Lomax 1:10:59

Yeah.

Charles 1:11:00

And um go on, talk about your number one.

Bryan Lomax 1:11:05

Yeah, no, it is I mean it was a core memory for me, is the the the first time I went to see that. So I worked at a cinema at the at the time in Warrington, and there was gonna be a staff screening of IMAX. Nice uh Data Night and IMAX over in Manchester. Um I the the the show in was gonna be at midnight. I was on shift in Warrington till 11.45. Um I drove a n I drove a Nissan micro at the time and I got I clocked off at 11.45 and I was sat in my seat three minutes before the shows. So um I'm uh pretty sure I broke some laws getting from Warrington to Manchester in that time and getting seated, but um because I was just so excited to to watch that film, and it was two weeks before it came out, and it was on IMAX, everyone was just super noisy, like these north. I'm like, please, he's better but die down. But as soon as that Warren Brothers logo came up, everyone shut up. Nice, and the only time there was noise was when there was meant to be noise, like the pencil trick and all that kind of stuff, you know, got the laughs and things, and it was just a phenomenal experience. Just the reaction from the audience for like all across the board, like was just was the exact reaction I was giving. So you got that communal sense that everyone sat here right now is feeling the same thing, is sharing in this experience. Um, and I watched The Dark Knight eight times at the cinema, so it's the most I've ever been to cinema to watch film, but yeah, I love it.

Charles 1:12:46

Uh it was wild to see Heath Ledger's version of The Joker because the last thing we had was was Jack Nicholson, and it was special in its own way, but it felt like Heath Ledger's representation was unique, it was it wasn't modern. I I don't know, but it was just oh, this is this is chaos.

Bryan Lomax 1:13:04

This is it was bad casting at first. Well, yeah, in the internet, it became a being again, yeah. It's been the internet, and it's that I mean it's there's countless time like times when that's been proven. It's just like, but the the dude from a night's tale is playing Joker. Ten things I hate about you, what yeah, um, and it's just uh I mean I I I knew from that first teaser trailer when I heard the laugh. So you got the the teaser trailer was just it was uh Michael Cain's voice, you know, some men just want to watch the world burn, and then you heard that laugh as the card came up. I knew right there that alright, that sold me. I am fully buying.

Charles 1:13:50

Um it's just yeah, but it's just it was just a different version of what what you know. I'm not a comic kid, I'm I'm a movie kid. Last thing I I remember of Batman prior to Batman Begins was whatever the hell Arnold Schwarzenegger and and Uma Thurman. You know, it's ice skating around and and neon green, and um to have this world be like grounded, and I'm using air quotes when I say grounded, um, you know, having the two-phase character be like literally burned in half of his face, and it it really looks gnarly.

Bryan Lomax 1:14:31

Um he's not there as a character to be brought back in multiple sequels, right? He's he's there to explore the theme with which Nolan is dealing with in this particular movie. He is the result of chaos, like going full tilt and then stepping back and letting the damage be done. And it's like, you know, if Nolan got to make more load, just loads of Batman moves, he ain't coming back. That's not a character who's coming back, he's there to make a point. No.

Charles 1:15:02

My my favorite line in that movie is uh towards the end there, and it's a combination of the way it's all presented and the score, all building. Yeah, and you know, uh Gordon says, you know, don't punish me, don't punish my son, punish me because I'm about to. And it's like uh oh yeah great line. I I don't know of all the things that happened in that movie, that that moment like really, really hits hard for me. It's like, yeah, no, no, that's that's what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah.

Bryan Lomax 1:15:34

No, it's it's it's great, it's just uh such a phenomenal movie.

Charles 1:15:39

Won the coin toss anyway. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, no notes. Uh no notes. I I can't I can't really argue too much with the Dark Knight. I mean, it's my number two. Yeah. Um second only to my favorite movie of all time.

Bryan Lomax 1:15:57

Yeah. My my top two movies of all time are in this list.

Charles 1:16:01

So is it Dark Knight and Interstellar?

Bryan Lomax 1:16:04

Yeah, yeah.

Charles 1:16:05

Huh.

Bryan Lomax 1:16:06

Yeah.

Charles 1:16:07

Yeah, I've got to really re-watch some of these. Maybe I I won't re-watch Dunkirk and leave it be the way it is.

Bryan Lomax 1:16:17

Let that be what it is.

Charles 1:16:18

So um, yeah, so for the most part, our our list is kinda kinda close again for those who are fast-forwarding to the end for some reason. Following at 13, Insomnia at 12, Memento at 11, Dunkirk at 10, uh, Dark Knight Rises at 9, The Odyssey at 8, The Prestige at 7, uh Batman Begins at 6, Oppenheimer at 5, Tenet at 4, Interstellar at 3, Inception at 2, The Dark Knight at 1. Any closing thoughts, Brian?

Bryan Lomax 1:16:53

Nolan's still the best director for me. Uh only director I've ever given 9 5 star ratings to. Nine five-star ratings. Yeah, in a in a career that only has 13 movies, that's that's an epic run. Uh call me the fanboy. I I'm fine with that. It's whatever. Uh yeah. Something about the way he makes movies just speaks to me on both an intellectual level and an emotional kind of level.

Charles 1:17:22

So it's a nice round number too, 13. So 13, we're gonna talk for three hours next time about the Friday the 13th. No. Um, Brian, thank you for doing this. I don't know who who's hearing this, uh, but there's a couple of things you'll listen to of uh Brian and I interacting, and please uh let us know what your thoughts are, what your rankings are. Where do you differ? Where do you agree? Um, Brian, what do you got going on your side of the planet?

Bryan Lomax 1:17:49

Not right a lot. Replugs the same thing too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, right. Uh just currently in the editing phase of a short film that I've made. Um yeah, so just want to get that done and then try and find an outlet to put it on. I'm sure it will end up on YouTube at some point. Uh but I I'm not rushing to put it on YouTube because I want to see uh what else I might be able to do.

Charles 1:18:18

YouTube is your cover in the in the news anyway. Feature link. Yeah. Uh Brian, thank you for doing this.