Entering The Job Market

This episode draws of the experience of people who talk about some of the very different options when thinking about what’s next – either into work for the first time, or progressing in an existing career. From hints-and-tips when preparing for interview, to apprenticeships, and a career in the armed forces, it’s all covered in this bumper episode.  Host Laura Cook talks to recruitment specialist Esther Marsden, apprenticeship coach Chris Littlewood and Brigadier Gary McDade, currently working with Cadets at Regional Command.  

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SPEAKER_04 0:04

Hello and welcome once again to Cadet to Career, the podcast series dedicated to the world of opportunity available through Cadet Vocational College. So far in this series, we've looked at the training, development and qualifications developed by CV College that help enhance the activities and achievements undertaken as part of a youth organisation. In this episode, we'll be looking at all important next step post-GCSEs. Whether it's a decision to carry on to further education at college or university, go directly into employment, maybe think about an apprenticeship, or even choose a life in the armed forces. There is plenty to talk about. We'll hear advice and very useful tips from a recruitment specialist, a nationwide apprenticeship employer, and we'll also learn about the experience of choosing the armed forces as a career. Whichever opportunity presents itself, it's vital to be properly prepared if you're going to stand out and make the right impression. Which is why we've enlisted the help of our guests for this episode. Esther Marsden is a business consultant with Career Tree, and she's helped many people entering the workplace for the first time. She's got some fabulous tips. Chris Littlewood is an apprentice coach from car servicing and repairs expert QuickFit who take on up to 300 new apprentices every year. And Brigadier Gary McDade looks back at his long career in the army and what it has to offer. There comes a time when we all have to face up to the challenge of attending an interview, and while some may think they can wing it on personality and charm alone, the most successful candidates all have one thing in common. They've prepared and practised in advance. Thinking about what to wear, how to behave, and how to respond effectively to questions during an interview is important and could make the difference between success and disappointment. Whether it's seeking to secure your first employment or maybe a promotion, the route to finally being successful can be varied from responding to an advertised post, applying for an apprenticeship through an employer or college, or looking for help from a recruitment agency. There's plenty to think about. I caught up with business consultant Esther Marsden from Career Tree and started by asking her about the expectations people have when they start the job seeking process. Esther, I'm looking forward to talking to you about the whole recruitment process, the whole people seeking jobs. It's a bit of a minefield. It's something that you've spent your career doing. So over to you, really. The somebody starting off, whether whatever age they are, seeking a new career, from the starting point, what in your in your experience are the expectations that they they sort of set on finding a career? Are they are they realistic? Are they wanting to palm it all off onto someone like you? Are they are they really proactive in the whole thing? What what's the starting process, do you think?

SPEAKER_03 3:16

I think it depends very much on the individual, as all these things do. Some are very proactive, some are um uh expect the recruiter to do everything for them and they need their hand holding all the time, and and you know, and that that's the there's there's no shame in that, you know, because that's what we're there for. But the people who are most successful are the ones who are very proactive, most definitely.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

So, proactive, let's talk about proactive. Yeah. Um, what in your mind should people be thinking of before they even kind of start? So they've got their they've got their qualifications, they've got a mindset about where they want to be. What are the key ingredients, if you like, of starting their journey?

SPEAKER_03 3:59

I suppose uh there are there are various components. Um one is obviously preparation, you know, they need to be really prepared, and by that I mean, you know, they they've got to have some idea of uh the direction in which they want to go, what sort of career they want. Probably the best thing that they can do is network. And I know that's very difficult these days to network, but um, you can network online, it doesn't have to be face-to-face. Obviously, it's really good if they could do it face to face, because there's nothing like a human connection. And and actually, some of the young they they don't really like doing that anymore. Um, but um networking is a really, really good way of actually understanding what's out there, talking to people, finding out what employers are looking for, um, who they who they should be talking to. Um, and they can do it online. I mean, uh, LinkedIn is a fantastic uh resource for people to look at. Um, LinkedIn, I'm I'm not advertising for LinkedIn, by the way. I'm just it is it is a very good resource. It's a good resource, yeah. And uh and also it's a professional resource because I think sometimes, you know, um uh people starting off they think they can go on Instagram and things like that. And and you know, unless you want to be an influencer, which an awful lot of them do, um, you know, if you're looking for a professional career, then LinkedIn is a really good place for for two things. One is to to learn, um, because they've got some fantastic resources, but also it gives you an opportunity to look for the type of companies, what they're looking for, what sort of jobs they advertise, uh, what uh they quite often put on their um on their profiles what it is that they are actually looking for for people starting off, and not to be put off by uh a job that sounds as if maybe they need a bit more than they've got, because you can always find something that you've got for a role if that's what you really want to do.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

It's interesting you're talking there, you know, we've you mentioned the the influencer, and and it's it's something that's obviously a trend, whether it's going to go stay or go away or whatever. But it's important to know also your social media footprint, and that's what we're sort of talking about here. So tell me a little bit more about particularly young people. I mean, people my age, if you know, we're talking about you know adult uh volunteers as well, um, anybody wanting to go into the job market, it's very rare that you don't have some kind of social media footprint. But how important is it that people are aware of what potential employers will look at?

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Okay, well, one thing I advise everybody is before they start applying for a job, if they haven't looked at their social media footprint, they need to. Because every employer will go online and look for them. And if there's stuff on there that they think is not appropriate to their business, then they will take that into consideration. So if you want to put stuff out there, then do it under a name that is, you know, a sort of not a pseudonym, but sort of something that is not recognizable. Make sure that your your personal life and your professional life are definitely in two different camps. Um, it's I I can't stress that enough because I I would say every single employer will do that now. They will look at your social media footprint. Um if you're if you're using LinkedIn, again, I would suggest that they can see that you have been either sharing posts about their type of business, or you've you've been attending um some sort of networking event, or you've been attending a course, anything, anything that shows that you're serious about what it about their particular area, um, so that you're really looking to move into that. So I would yeah, I'd really suggest that you make sure that your LinkedIn profile is absolutely up to date and also that it matches what you say on your CV.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

So that leads nicely on to what makes a candidate stand out. The the various little components, well, they're not little by any means, but CVs, um, attending interview, the prep for interview, what makes a candidate stand out? And though those things that you're saying there, I mean, being proactive and researching the the company that you're wanting to go to go for probably you know slots into that.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

But it certainly does. I mean, so uh every time you apply for a job, you should be tailoring it to the job. Uh and and I know it's really annoying that, and it takes time, and you know, and you don't what you want to do is just send off your CV or do the application. So there are various things. One is that as I say, make sure your CV matches your LinkedIn profile. Um you have to tailor it, you absolutely have to tailor it to the job. So make sure that it's pulling out the things that they you know that they want to see. So read the job description and mirror the job description to your CV. Don't lie, obviously, but just make sure that you're pulling out the things that you feel would be relevant to the job description. Think about the person who's reading it. You know, they're they're really busy people. These these uh companies they get hundreds and hundreds of CVs. And what you're trying to do is you're trying to make it easy for them. Just highlight the things, have a little praise, have a couple of bullet points that you know are just going to grab their attention because it is, I'm afraid, it is a bit of a yes-no, yes, no, yes, no situation when somebody's that busy. I mean, obviously they have algorithms now as well. Um, and I'd say again, probably about 80% of jobs now go through an algorithm. So making sure that your CV has keywords in it that match the job description so you don't get filtered out. So there are all sorts of things you have to think about, I'm afraid, even before before you get to the interview. But um, but making sure that you're using those keywords and that you're highlighting the things that you know match the job description.

SPEAKER_04 10:17

The clues are there, aren't they, in the in the job description. They're giving you basically they're giving you some information and it's up to you to pick it out. And and that's that's part of the thing as well. If you're if you're observant and you're you know attention to detail, if you can't even read the job description, then there's not there's not a huge amount of hope, is there?

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Don't use AI, because if you do that, it's quite often recognisable. Uh, and secondly, if you use AI to do the application, if lots of people have done that, all the applications will look the same. And and so therefore they'll just filter out.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

I think we've covered off the question of has how how have things changed over the past few years. Hugely. We could spend an entire podcast just talking about it. Um it's really interesting to to it listen about uh certain sectors and industries and uh what what's popular at the moment. And you know, we talk about influencers, people thinking, you know, that that that's that's a career uh um choice, you know. Yes, maybe yeah, you can make a lot of money and all that kind of stuff. But from your experience, what are the what are the the things that are sort of grabbing and and and people are uh you know have remained popular, if you like, over past years?

SPEAKER_03 11:25

I suppose the things that have remained popular are anything in the creative, the media, the and anything creative people love, you know. That word creative is is a catch-all. Um so if if somebody can put creative in their job description, then you know they probably get more people to apply than not. Um I mean obviously, you know, the the the um financial sector is also very popular. Um, but I think probably it's not so much the sector, it's more what the companies, how how the companies put themselves across to their employees. So it's their D E and I um uh proposals, um, uh how flexible are they for working? Um will they let you work remotely or not? And and that I'd say that is much more important than necessarily the sector, because you know the sector you want to go into, so that's the sector you go into, but it it's more of a company policies and how they treat their staff, and that is much more important, I would say, now than anything else.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

And if we're talking particularly about here, we're talking about CV College and we're talking about the opportunities that the college offers all ages, but it in from those types of um those types of jobs, looking at sort of apprentice roles, graduate roles, all the all the things that you can add to your CV, it's very important to make that sing, isn't it? What what we've we've been saying is make the most out of yourself. Uh and certainly what CV College is is sort of offering young people and adult um adults as well, you you've got to make that really work for you, haven't you?

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Yes, you do. And and make sure it's highlighted as well, you know, in your CV and and any application that you make. So education is important, obviously. Um, you know, any any uh extra things that you do, and anything that you've got that's sort of slightly unique, maybe, you know, if you've got a language, and anything you've done, uh perhaps you've done some work experience somewhere that you can use just to sort of highlight that either you're serious about the sector you want to go into, or that actually, you know, you're a hardworking person, you haven't been sitting on your bottom, you know, doing nothing, and that um you can actually, you know, you you're keen to find work. Um, but at the same time, as I say, that with the client, sorry, with the employers, um the what people are looking for are what they're going to give back to them. And I think that that's the biggest change in the last few years is that you know, it used to be that you went along for a job and whippy, I've got a job, and you almost particularly when you were starting out, you you it didn't really matter, you just wanted to get a job, and hopefully they were nice and you would move on, and you could then move on to the next job. Whereas now it's much more about okay, what it what's the employer going to do for me? Um, and employers have had to have had to respond to that.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

That's really interesting. I didn't even I didn't I hadn't really factored that in um to my thought process, really, because everybody since COVID as well, everybody's changed their mindset. Yes. Um, and that that's a that's a really interesting point. If I could just finish off, you know, this this this puts you on the spot. We've spoken about do's and don'ts, we've spoken about all those things. But if you if if you could give me a top tip, a top do and a top don't for um preparing myself for putting myself out there, what what would that be?

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Top do, top don't. The top do, there are two. I'd say persistence, you have to persevere, because i I'll be honest, it's a pretty, you know, hard thing to do, look for a job these days. Uh it's a full-time job in itself, looking for a job. So persistence and and not getting downhearted is really important. And I will go back to the networking. I think I I'm sorry, those two are uh absolutely key. Don't I suppose don't give up, you know? Um, and um make sure you've you've got lots and lots and lots of information about what you're going to say in your interviews. So don't just swan up to an interview thinking that you know you're wing it. That won't work. It's very precious getting an interview these days, so you really must make the most of it.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

The interview process, I mean, that's another subject on it on its own, isn't it? But the whole preparation, knowing how you come across, knowing your preparation. You've done you've done the hard work of preparing and getting yourself seen. Uh elaborate for me a little bit more about then the the preparation process of of making that into the interview, and you're you're there on the day. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

So you've got you've got your interview. First thing is don't be late, because that will really set a bad tone, I tell you, if you're late. Um, secondly, um, you know, a lot of people now don't want to shake hands um when they go for an interview, and that's perfectly fine, but make it clear why you why you're not, because again, that might sort of set a slightly um different tone. That uh all the questions, think, try and think of every single question that they may ask. They may want to look up if they haven't already the star method, which is you know, they're competency-based interviews. All interviews now are competency-based. So if you're not ready for it, then you'll fail. So make sure that um you've done the um you understand the star technique, which is it's describe a situation, you know, what task was needed to be done, what action did you take, and what was the outcome. And if if you can't answer questions like that, then the interview won't flow, and it will be less of a conversation because the star technique it allows you to introduce more of a conversational type of interview rather than question-answer, question-answer. And and again, you're trying to build rapport with somebody, so that's that's a really good and very important um thing to do before you go on your interview. So lots of examples. Think about loads and loads and loads of examples. I mean, I I have a a friend who went uh for a job at one of the top legal firms, one of the Magic Circle, when he when he was just starting out. And one of the examples he gave of what he'd done was working in a chicken factory. And, you know, and it was it was quite monotonous and it was very not terribly interesting, and they were more interested in that than anything else that he had done because it was different, and because it showed that he was prepared to do something that perhaps wasn't that exciting. And so, you know, don't don't think that something won't be relevant, you know.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Use any example that you've got to try and or also things that might not have gone right, things that you've learned from and and how you've adapted and how you've moved on.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Because people will ask you, you know, tell me a time when you you know you had to adapt or you had to change or something didn't go right. What did you do about it? How did you manage it? Uh, what was the result of it? So any examples, in and it that that is probably one of the biggest things about preparing for an interview is thinking of examples of things that you're going to talk about, because it's quite a stressful situation in an interview, especially if you're not used to it. And trying to think of things on the hop is really hard. Uh, so if you've thought about it before and you've practiced, practice, practice, and practice with people, you know, get somebody to interview you before you go along.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

And in terms of um the examples, I mean, just just highlighting that any old person can say, I can do this because I'm interested in this, because I'm doing this, wah, wah, wah. But I suppose as well, when we're talking about CV college, the teamwork, the the things that they actually do, the tasks that they actually perform, they are examples in the making. And and just write them down and keep them in your mind. I mean, probably keep a log as you're going on through your career because when something occurs to you, you it could it could come up in a future interview, couldn't it? It's it's all about preparation.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Absolutely. It's all about preparation. It's like it's like, you know, where if you're if you're going to have a a review of your job, you do if you've been writing things down that you've done throughout the six months before the review, you don't have to think, oh god, what have I done? You know. So it's exactly the same thing. Yeah, write things down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Esther, it's been fascinating talking to you. Lots to think about there, lots for uh anyone listening to this podcast to think about. Thank you very much. Business consultant with a career tree. Thank you so much for your insight and your experiences and more importantly, your advice.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Not at all. It's my pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Some sound advice from Esther there. You're listening to the Cadet to Career Podcast brought to you by Cadet Vocational College. Improving lives through vocational education. One of the increasingly popular options for the transition into full-time employment is through an apprenticeship. And with new government plans to place more emphasis on opportunities for those under 22, the earn while you learn route to a career is well worth considering. There are thousands of opportunities available at all levels in hundreds of different industry sectors. One crucial factor for those who choose the apprenticeship route is the opportunity to be paid a salary while you learn a trade and can be a key factor for those who may prefer not to take the college or university route, particularly if potential costs of fees and loans is an issue. Automotive specialists QuickFit have an annual nationwide programme to recruit up to 300 new apprentices each year. Chris Littlewood is a QuickFit Apprentice coach and joins Steve Taylor to explain how the scheme works.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

It's quite a big apprenticeship scheme that we've got going. We take on up to 300 apprentices a year at the moment. Not in one go though. Over seven intakes we we do it to make it a little bit more reasonable. But it also means that if at any point you're you're looking to join us, you don't have to wait too long. We have centres all over the country, so there's plenty of options for roles in the company that you can join it at plenty of places. And we've got training academies throughout the country as well. So throughout the apprenticeship there's twelve weeks that a learner would spend at the training academy. They'd do it in separate week stints and then over the two years they'll finish the apprenticeship with a a level two autocare so that they're they're then fully qualified to service within the company.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Famously, uh Chris, you had an advertising campaign years ago which was you can't get better than a quick fit-fitter. Is is that the next generation that you're training?

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yes, yes, definitely. Our apprentices, they they tend to do really, really well. We've got lots of apprentices that have gone on to to management and even higher. I mean, currently uh at the very top of our company, so our operations director, he started off as an apprentice as well within our company. So the really big on internal promotion, it's really important to us.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

That's a great example, Chris, isn't it, of of where a job becomes a career. Uh, because if if your head of operations started as an apprentice and is now in that senior management role, uh it's the proof in the pudding. Yes, definitely. Yeah, were you an apprentice, Chris?

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I wasn't, unfortunately. I wasn't aware of the apprenticeship when I started, which is a massive, massive shame. We do have other coaches that were apprentices. Um but no, for me, I started with a company when I was about 18, going 19, so a similar age. Um I started as a tire fitter and worked my way up to doing more mechanical jobs, servicing, and then I went into management. I was in management for 15 years, and then went over to the training side of it, which it's a lot different. It's fun. You get to spend time doing interesting things with all the apprentices, getting out and about. But uh, no, it as a unfortunately I didn't wish I did though.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Uh it's a great scheme because you as you've highlighted, you could start off uh you know as a as a tire fitter and end up as the uh director of operations. So at those early stages, um Chris, uh everybody uh is aware that when you're an apprentice you earn while you're learning, which is one of the fundamental differences to say college or university. What sort of salary can an apprentice um hope to uh hope to achieve when they start?

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Oh at the very beginning they start off uh just over 15 and a half thousand pounds a year. Uh 15, 577 off the top of my head. Um but as they progress it it does go up. Um it goes up after the first year and when they're almost finished, um, and then when they've passed their exams, they then go on to be a fully full qualified service technician, so they they can end up getting a a good wage just from the two years' apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Absolutely, and it's uh a five-day a week operation, but one of those days is uh spent off site or at college, maybe, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

So with our company it's a little different. So they spend the the full five days in their centre, and then every so often they'll go away for a week to one of our training academies. So we have them all over the country. Um we've got them Scotland, we've got Sheffield, Derby, and then down south. We've got two down south. Um so they'll go away for the full week. They have the opportunity when they start, they book all of the 12 weeks of courses. So they can start with that same group of apprentices and then go to the same um courses throughout their apprenticeship, or if they want to break it up, they can go to different ones, it's up to them. But it it just gives them that opportunity to stay together as a group and and progress together, really.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

And that's important as well, isn't it? When you can make friends with the people that you're learning with and that you're going to be embarking on your career with. So, what do you look for when you're recruiting new apprentices? I can imagine that you're overwhelmed with applications, which means you have to sift through them. So, what do you look for?

SPEAKER_02 26:15

So, for us, we're looking for a passion for the industry, someone who's looking to be in that sort of role, someone that enjoys cars, they're they're interested in cars.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

The uh people that are on the books of uh Cadet Vocational College uh do their BTEC, which enables them to develop uh communication skills, teamworking skills, problem solving skills. Presumably, if they were able to demonstrate those to you, they would be useful at that interview stage.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Absolutely, because uh in the long run, that's what we're looking for. We don't need people that can work on cars, we need people that can problem solve and find faults, uh, for example, uh, and then communication part of our apprenticeship is dealing with customers, customer service, customer care. Um, and then we have, as I said earlier, we have a lot of examples of apprentices that do go on to become management, some almost as soon as they finish their their apprenticeship, if they do that well. Um so it is a big part communication, makes a big, big difference.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

How big of an importance is the way they present themselves at interview as well? I mean, a CV is one thing, uh, as we all know, and a job application letter can have a few uh little bits of embellishment in it, can't it? But when it comes to the interview stage, how important is it that they're prepared for that? And how much of a difference does that make when you're thinking about taking somebody on?

SPEAKER_02 27:44

It's massively important. We talk about first impressions, but really potentially it's only one impression. They get that one go at an interview, so if they put them across uh themselves across well, they're gonna stick in your mind, and that's what we want. Someone who who you remember.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Remember for the right reasons, presumably. Absolutely. I mean you must have interviewed hundreds, uh Chris. Can you spot the ones that you think, do you know what, they're gonna be on a trajectory towards uh management and great things from the outset? Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

It's it's it's all within that passion. If you find someone that's really, really passionate, we've got the people that can support and nurture that and help it grow. I mean, for example, that's what's happened with me. I wouldn't be in the place I am now without the the handful of people that we have in the company that are there to help you get there.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

It sounds like there's a heck of a lot of support as well. Your role uh as an apprenticeship coach is very uh closely connected with the with the apprentices, but I think I get the sense that the organisation puts a great deal of weight and effort behind supporting the apprentices through the programme.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

Absolutely. We genuinely feel uh the the the future of our business. So that that makes them one of the most important parts. Um without them we don't we don't have a future ourselves. Seeing them as an investment, not just an employee. Exactly. Once they've finished their apprenticeship, that is just the start of the journey. But when they start with us, if it's what they're looking for, they have a career for life. So it's just a case of when they're finished deciding where they want to go from there, what route to take, because there's so many options within the company.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

So uh Chris, what advice would you give to anybody who might be listening to this who either hasn't yet considered the apprenticeship route or didn't know about the uh the quick fit scheme? What advice would you give them uh if they are in that that balanced stage of trying to make up their mind whether to do an apprenticeship or not?

SPEAKER_02 29:51

For me, I I would just say to do the research, there's plenty of information out there and see if it is right for them because it needs to be, it needs to be what they want. If they're unsure, speak to people. There's plenty of people that have done an apprenticeship or are apprentices. If they speak to them, find out and and get some background. Obviously, I can say it's brilliant, but I'm a bit biased.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

I would expect you to be quite uh nothing but uh as well. It sounds like you've had uh a great time uh working on the apprenticeship scheme and then your time with QuickFit as well. So, where can people find out more information about QuickFit and particularly, of course, uh your apprenticeship scheme?

SPEAKER_02 30:34

So we've got a website set up that's QuickFit Careers. That's all you need to put in, and then it lists everything. It'll go through the whole apprenticeship and tell you all the details about it.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Chris, absolute pleasure to catch up with you and uh good luck with the rest of the QuickFit programme. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

It's good to hear from Chris about the apprenticeship option. And remember there are options across many industry sectors, right up to degree level. You can find lots of information about apprenticeships, including those in your local area, by simply searching online for apprenticeships near me. Or you can try the UCAS website at UCAS.com forward slash apprenticeships. And of course, you can log on to quickfit.com forward slash careers for more information about their apprenticeship scheme. And remember, many colleges and universities also have partner employers that offer a route to employment that might suit those who wish to go down the further or higher education pathway. Across the military-sponsored cadet forces in the UK, around 15% or so of cadets choose a career in the armed forces, with a diverse offering of trades, specialisms, and varied entry levels across all the services. There's plenty of career options that the Army, Royal Air Force, and Royal Navy provide. Now, a brigadier and deputy commander of cadets at Regional Command, Gary McDade, knew early on that his future was one to be spent in uniform. As he nears the end of his time in the army, he joined me to reflect on his own cadet to career journey. How and why did you make the decision to join the armed forces?

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Well, this is um a very easy question for me to answer. So I I was a cadet myself. I was a combined cadet force cadet at a school called Wycliffe College in Gloucestershire. Uh, and I think there are three reasons why I chose a life in the services. The first one was the fact that I was in the cadets, and it gave me an introduction into uh the values, uh, the type of career that the army would offer. And I was very fortunate, and I'm going to age myself now, that the first summer camp I ever went on was in 1987. I went to Berlin and I jumped on a train as a 14-year-old, and I went through East Germany, and I ended up in West Berlin hosted by 1st Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment. And for 14 days, my eyes were opened as to the opportunities of a life in the military, uh, and it was just a fantastic adventure. Uh, and then roll the clock forward uh to 1990, I went back to Berlin after the end of the Cold War, the war had come down, and I was in Berlin as a 17-year-old, and my cadet camp happened to coincide with Germany winning the World Cup final. I was on the streets of Berlin, age 17, with the West German, or the Germany fans as it was then, uh, and they'd beaten Argentina 1-0. Uh, and my insight to the life in the army and just generally the cadet force uh was that was it. That was the career for me. The second reason was I was at school in the Southwest and I did something called TEN Tours, the 10 Tours Challenge over Dartmoor, where youngsters uh varying ages walk between 35, 45, or 55 miles across the moor over a 36-hour period, completely self-sufficient. And I did the 35-mile challenge and the 45-mile challenge as a cadet. Uh, and it gave me great resilience, it gave me confidence, it made me learn about teamwork, uh, and just stepping outside uh into a pretty austere environment and learning for myself uh how far I could test myself and an acknowledgement that a life in the forces would give me more of that was a second reason. And the third reason, and probably the most important, was my contingent commander at my school uh was Major Wes Thomas. And Wes is now 90, and I've seen him a couple of times recently to thank him for the guidance and support he gave me as a schoolchild. Uh, but it's absolutely clear that when I was there as a 16-year-old, and we might touch on uh, you know, how I was as a 16-year-old, he was the person who metaphorically put an arm around me, gave me the confidence to go for it, he guided me, gave me support into what a life in the career, what a life in the military would be all about. And here I am. And I didn't go to university, but I left school, I took a gap year, I delivered a few pizzas, I travelled around Africa, I had some fun, uh, then I entered Sandhurst age 19. Uh, and uh wind the clock forward, I'm now in my 33rd year in the military, and I love it today as much as I did back then.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Well, it sounds like it. The passion is clearly it's not it's not going away, it's it's coming out in in huge amounts in how you're describing it.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Well, I've feeling incredibly privileged that um I've come full circle in two reasons. Number one, you know, I'm at the twilight of my military career and I'm now looking after you know army cadets uh on behalf of commander cadets, who's my boss, uh General James Sr. Commander Regional Command, but on a day-to-day basis, uh he he delegates that to me. So to end my career where I sort of was even before my career started as a cadet was fantastic. And in my last job as Commander Southwest, uh I was also director 10 tours. So for 22 and 23, I was the director of 10 tours where we had two and a half thousand youngsters going out on the moor. So to have done that event twice and come back and be the event's director uh was an incredible full circle. And so uh my my enthusiasm for this career endures.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

Yes, and the and brought about the youngsters that you're seeing coming through, you're seeing yourself back in those, and then the it's all like you say, the full circle. It's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

It it's fantastic. I mean, I I spend most of my days, um, like many people at my stage of my career, sitting behind a computer, writing policy, look dealing with knotty issues. Uh, but every now and again, and quite often I get out and I go and see cadets, and uh, and every time I see cadets and every time I see adult volunteers, uh, my batteries are recharged, and I'm reminded why you're the hard graft in the office, it is absolutely worth it. And just two days ago on Saturday, I was with Devon ACF uh at a rebadging parade where one of their companies uh was rebadging to the Royal Wessex Yeomery, uh, and there was 120 cadets on parade and the opportunity to go and shake their hands, to give them their new berets, and perhaps more importantly, to thank the adult volunteers, the incredible bunch of selfless volunteers who give of their time uh to enable the cadet experience. Uh and every opportunity I have to get out and about, um, I always seize it.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

I love the fact that in 20, 30 years' time we might be talking to somebody in your position, talking about you in the way that you just spoke about, the man who shaped you.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Well, maybe. I mean, I suppose my my role is one step removed from our volunteer community. It's really the volunteers uh within the Kinet Force, and it's not just the Army Connect Force, it's all Kinet forces and all youth organizations, actually, to that extent, who are giving their time, and they are the people who are teaching uh the next generation the skills, the confidence, the resilience, uh the values that we have in service life. Uh, I'm sort of one step removed from that. Uh, but I'd like to think that I and the team that I work with at Regional Command, we're a very diverse team. Uh, we're doing our bit to set the next generation up for lifelong success. And when I look at the foundations that I uh learnt when I was a cadet and the foundations that we are trying to instill in our cadets now, some 35 years later, uh, that hasn't really changed. And uh the values that we live by in the services are very similar to the values that existed 30, 35 years ago. Uh, and they certainly stood me in good stead for my career and my life. And I'd like to think that I'm playing a small part in the next generation um having this a similar foundation.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

So let's talk about that a little bit more about the cadet experience, about what CV College offers in terms of qualifications and life opportunities and all those links because they're they are they're fascinating and vital, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yeah, well to answer the first the first question first, so the cadet experience. I would say at the heart of the cadet experience are three words uh values, standards, and leadership. Uh and if we can instill the army's values of selfless commitment, of respect for others, of discipline, etc., uh, then that is going to be a good basis for life. And whilst I absolutely acknowledge we are not here uh as a recruiting tool to make cadets join the services and a proportion, a minor a minority will choose to serve. Uh, regardless of what our cadets choose to do in their adult life, uh, I would like to think that these values will set them up for lifelong success. That is really important. And then if I was to describe the cadet experience in four words, uh the first would be fun. We want the cadets to turn up and have some fun. We want them to enjoy themselves and learn new skills in a safe environment. The second one would be friendship. Uh, come and be alongside like-minded peers, uh, people who have the same uh desires and outlook in life, uh, they want to have the same adventures and learn the same resilience and step outside their comfort zones. Uh, the third one is a sense of belonging, uh, belonging to uh your detachment, your company, uh, the uniform you wear, your county, your CCF contingent. Really, really important, that sense of belonging with like-minded people. And finally, it's about well-being. And of course, physical well-being, I think, is a given. And we allow people to stretch themselves physically, uh, but increasingly, mental well-being is a very important part of what we do. And I see that as a growth area in terms of uh uh supporting people uh who have perhaps uh less advantage than others by providing an opportunity for those who perhaps uh wouldn't find themselves naturally in military service to have an opportunity to dip their toe in the water through the cadet opportunity. And those four words are really the heart of what we do. Linking that to the vocational college, of course, in army cadets, the obvious things that people think of are drill, weapon handling, first aid, etc. But actually, I'd like to think that the cadet experience is far broader than that. Uh, and the vocational skills which are on offer to both our cadets and our adult volunteers, and it's really important that people acknowledge that the vocational uh college offers uh opportunities to our adults as well, um, that is equally important. So on your CV, uh, as well as being able to put down that you are an army cadet uh for X many years and you've got your one-star, two-star master cadet badge, the ability to put down that you've got your BTEC in whatever uh is just as important. And I think in some ways, uh perhaps more important because that's a language that employers understand. And so not only for the cadets who are seeking employment uh as they uh leave cadets and become adults, but for our adult volunteers, the opportunities offered by the Cadet Vocational College are really important uh and I'd like to think make them more interactive employees to their employers.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

We've certainly heard some examples of where employers have have noted that and noted that that is where uh certain youngsters have have gained a benefit and they've stood out in in the whole recruitment process. In saying that whatever pathway anybody takes, um, if we look at the army, if for example, and say some people are going to be going along that pathway, was talk about some of the elements of recruiting and some of the things that you'd be looking at to then stretch the the cadets and who whoever comes through.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Well, that's very interesting, and recruiting isn't my area of expertise uh in that you know we we absolutely there's an air gap between cadets and recruiting, but from my understanding of recruiting, of course, you can join the army one or two ways. You can go down the officer route, uh which I did, and that that requires uh sort of A levels and um sort of selection through the Army Officer Selection Board, and then you'd you'd go to Sanders and do your training, or go through the soldier route, and that's the way the majority go. And of course, depending on different parts of the army, there's a different level of expectation in terms of education. But of course, maths and English are a prerequisite for both uh parts of the army. But I think actually what's what people are more interested in is you know uh a sense of adventure, some resilience, um the opportunity to work as a team player, uh, a certain amount of discipline to uh to uh be able to acknowledge that you know it it's a challenging environment within which you're entering. Uh and I'd really encourage anybody who's interested in a career in the army uh to do their research. There's very a very good army website out there which will open up the opportunities to all the career paths uh which are available. And quite often one thinks that you can join the army as a soldier and you can join the infantry, you could join the engineers. But of course, we have you know we have dental technicians, we have all sorts of weird and wonderful jobs out there. Uh, and as an employer, the army offers this huge spectrum of opportunity. Uh so I urge people who do have an interest to just go and do their research.

SPEAKER_04 42:29

The reality of your whole career, the expectation that you had when when you were that that young and looking and thinking I've got this passion, which is clearly still in abundance. Did the reality align with the with with the life that you've the the expectation rather align with the reality of of of the career that you've had, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Yeah, I mean it's been incredible. So I I commissioned from Sanders, age 21. Uh I celebrated my 21st birthday in the bush in Botswana uh with a company with a platoon of soldiers. I met my platoon uh in Africa, uh, and then I was commanding 30 plus soldiers on operations in Bosnia, age 21. Uh that is uh that is uh quite a lot of responsibility. Uh I'm a father of two daughters, my elder one is 20 now, and I look at her and I think wow, in a year's time, she she'll be the same age that I was on operations, you know, making difficult decisions uh in a complex environment, an austere environment, uh, with responsibility for a platoon's worth of soldiers. And then, of course, my career has coincided with the period in which the British Army and defence more generally has been quite operationally focused. So, you know, I saw the tail end of Northern Ireland and as well as uh the Balkans, I've you know I've been to Iraq and Afghanistan, I've spent some time in Mali and Africa as well. Uh so I've seen a whole variety of operational theatres, uh, and it's been uh incredibly rewarding, it's been very challenging, it's been quite adventurous, uh, and in that respect it's completely lived up to expectations. And of course, the further you you go up the ladder and you gain a little bit more responsibility, uh perhaps you know, opportunities of you know day to day. Commanding of soldiers, which is what I did a lot of in my junior career. Uh, that that's become a little bit uh you know less prevalent, I suppose, but yeah, with more responsibility becomes uh you know a second half of my career which has been more office-based, dealing with different teams of people. Um, but the but the adventure endures. I've I've I've played sport, I've travelled the world, I've had some incredible adventures, uh, and I I can honestly not think I'd do it in any other way if I had the choice to do it again.

SPEAKER_04 44:26

We could spend an entire podcast talking to you, but could I ask you to single out the biggest challenge in that fascinating career that you've just basically put into a little five five-second description there?

SPEAKER_00 44:37

I I knew this question was going to come actually, and I've been so I've been doing a bit of thinking about it. Uh and did you know the biggest challenge has been holding my nerve? Uh and uh and and I say it because um my promotion, and it's not all about promotion, that is let me make that absolutely clear. And my career has been fantastic, but uh but I sit here as a as a brigadier, uh, and I'll be honest, never in a million years did I think I'd get to Brigadier. Uh and um I think there was a point where I was a major going on lieutenant colonel, where I perhaps I didn't make the wrong decisions in the early part of my career, but uh I acknowledged now that I didn't broaden myself and I was quite singular in my approach, and I think had I had my time again, I would have perhaps broadened myself, seen a few other bits of the army, because that would I think would have made me more employable when I was in the middle rank in the middle of my career. So for me to move from major to lieutenant colonel, then lieutenant colonel to colonel, those were both very, very um steep mountains for me to climb. Uh and there were times where promotion didn't come or I didn't get a job that I thought I was uh maybe you know suited to. Uh, and of course, each one of those is a is a knock to one's confidence. And you think, okay, well, I'm in my mid-30s, coming on 40, I've got two young children, yeah, perhaps is now the time to step off and go and do something else. Um, but you know, with uh the support of a fantastic wife behind me who you know urged me to be patient, take my time, you know, and you know, when one door closes, another opens. And that would be one of my key messages or lessons to those who who are listening is that um, you know, life will deal you uh a particular hand, uh, and it might not be the poor the path that you expected it to be, but actually you will achieve your goals if you maintain your patience and and your and your nerve. And so here I am, and I I like to think I'm around pegging a round hole doing a job which uh you know sees me working with cadets um and in a fantastically inspiring and rewarding uh role. Uh, but had we had this conversation 10 years ago, I probably couldn't have imagined myself here. And so that would be the biggest challenge, I think, just uh having the patience to to sort of let things naturally find their course. Uh and I've ended up in a position which I'm incredibly proud of, uh, but perhaps 10 years ago I would never expect it to be in.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

What's for you won't pass you by, certainly. That's what I believe in in life. If you have anything else to achieve, you know, there's we're all still growing, everybody still needs something to look look ahead to. What what what's the next uh step for you? Is there anything on the horizon?

SPEAKER_00 46:59

What's next? Um I'm 52, so I'm probably nearing the end of my military career. I mean, there's a lot I'd like to achieve in this job. Um there there's uh you know the the cadet movement is alive and well, and we have just around 75,000 army cadets, there's about 140,000 MOD cadets, uh, and there's an opportunity, I think, probably to do more. I mean, it's absolutely clear to my mind and to anybody who I speak to, the value of cadets is really well understood. Um, and I would like to do more to try and enable more youngsters to have the chance to experience what we have uh in the cadets. But in order to do so, you know, we have to find more adults. We can't have more cadets with more adults. We have to find the resource, and it's a very complicated world we live in in terms of money and access to defense training estate and volunteering time. So it's a very complex jigsaw. So I've got 18 months or so left in this role, and I think there are many things that I would like to uh achieve uh working alongside my army counterparts, my RAF and Navy counterparts, because collectively, um, you know, without being glib, we are we are setting up the next generation for lifelong success, and that is an incredibly rewarding thing to do. Uh, but it's quite complicated at the same time. And on a personal level, um, yeah, as I'm coming up, as I said, to you know, 34, 35 years in the military, I need to look after myself and working out what comes next for me um is important. And I'm starting to have a think about future careers, uh, and I've got a few iron, I haven't got any irons in the fire, but I've got a few ideas as to where I'd like to go. Uh, but I very much suspect that um youth and training and trying to inspire others uh will probably be a world that I'll hope to end up in.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Fascinating. Well, thank you very much for your time today, Brigadier Gary McDade. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

You're very welcome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 48:44

And that brings us to the end of this episode, a valuable insight into the road ahead on this Cadet to career journey. My thanks to Esther Marsden, Chris Littlewood, and Brigadier Gary McDade for sharing their expertise and experiences. And you can find links to our guests on the CV College website. If you haven't done so already, you can listen to our employability skills workshop briefing notes, a special episode for more insights and details about how to register for the workshop session. If you'd like to find out more about CV College and the qualifications on offer, then go to our website at CVcollege.org, or you can talk to our learner support services team on 01276-601701. Keep an eye out on our usual social media channels too for details of the next episode of Cadet to Career that will be available soon via our podcast channel, which you can find on our website on Spotify, Apple, iTunes, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The editor was Steve Taylor, and this has been a create media production for Cadet Vocational College. I'm Laura Cook. Thank you for listening.