Disability, Faith & Free-Market Policy: A Conversation with "The Disapologist"

In this episode, we sit down with Ella — known online as The Disapologist — a Christian apologist and disability advocate who's carving out a distinct voice in a policy space and disability space. 

Drawing on her own experience living with a disability and navigating SSDI, Ella unpacks why she believes true interdependence — not government dependency — is the path to dignity and empowerment. 

She digs into hard topics: benefits cliffs that punish work, the push for government-run healthcare, and the growing acceptance of assisted dying within disability policy circles.

Ella also opens up about the pushback she's faced for holding pro-life, faith-rooted views that challenge assumptions about what "disability rights" should mean — and makes the case for why a free-market, individual-empowerment approach can offer disabled Americans more freedom, not less.

A candid conversation about faith, autonomy, and what dignity really requires from public policy.

🔔 Subscribe for more conversations on disability policy and reform.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, Able Americans. I am Erica Anderson and I am here with Ella, also known as the Disapologist on Instagram. And we are so excited to talk with her today for our new interview series. Thank you so much for joining us, Ella. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. Okay, so I don't know when I first I ran into one of your videos that had gone kind of viral. And so tell us a little bit about why you started your account and what you focus on over there.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Well, like you said, you found me first on Christian, the Christian side of Instagram. I am a Christian apologist, meaning a defender of the faith and what's true about it, all of that. And I my specific niche within that focuses on disability because I have a disability myself. And there is a lot of just bad theology out there about disability. And a lot of it is a lot more common than you would think within the church. So I'm my the whole mission of my page is to equip right more Christian disciples with disabilities to like understand how do you think about this with a Christian worldview?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Um, but let's talk a little bit just about your experience. Um, how for you, how has living with a disability shaped your understanding of what independence actually looks like?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Well, I will say I don't think any of us can be truly a hundred percent independent, right? I mean, the interdependence is one of the things that I do agree with the modern disability rights movement on. And I would even say that's supported in a Christian worldview and probably a lot of other religious worldviews too, are that you cannot just act alone as an island, but you really are dependent on one another. I mean, you you're dependent on one another if you're going to Starbucks, you're depending on that barista to make your drink, you're depending on the coffee beans to be prop processed and become a part. So it's there is no just 100% independence on your own. And so I've sort of, as I've gotten older, have learned like, okay, then if I need a little bit more help with certain things than others, that's okay. We're all essentially reliant on one another, just to varying degrees.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

That's a really good point. Um, you mentioned, you know, kind of differing from some of the disability community on certain things. Where do you think you veer off um maybe a couple ways that you think that you think a little differently than say the majority out there in terms of policy?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I would say I am most certainly a lot more conservative on policy than the larger disability community. That's for sure. Um, I know one of the reels that I think is you were mentioning, I talked a little bit about a couple cases of MAID that have gone viral. And that is one I was appalled to find out that in Canada it was actually two disabled people that wanted to open track to and basically argued that this was discrimination that you could get made for a terminal diagnosis, but not a non-terminal diagnosis. And so now that they're sort of making this the next big social justice issue, right, because the disability community wants the universal health care and a lot more of the socialism in policy. And I'm like, that is the worst possible thing for us. That is the worst possible thing for disabled people is to be so reliant on the government that now they're dictating our they're dictating the end of our lives.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Right. And what what do you think is behind this sort of the mindset of someone with a disability that wants this for your community? I mean, what why would we want to be pushing for this? You know, when we're all over here being like every life matters and like every person has such dignity. Um, like what is the disconnect?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

I think for a lot of the disability community, it sounds nice, right? To have universal healthcare and a big social safety net. And in theory, it sounds like wonderful. Someone's gonna take care of me when I can't take care of myself necessarily. But it's you're missing the point that the hand that feeds you can also starve you. Right. Right. So, and and I don't think people have thought it to that extent. And I've said in one of my videos, you're presupposing that the government is gonna act in your best interest.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

And I mean, you are as you already know, like relying on the government thus far. I mean, there, I mean, I do think the government obviously has a place and should be there to help and be a safety net, but but people are already feeling that it's not enough. It's not enough. And so um, I think sort of the shift in how can we actually empower people to do more for themselves in terms of like how do we give them that financial incentive and create those, you know, kind of accounts and policies that give people their own way to make money and save it and invest it. Um, you know, that's like right now, you probably know um there are sort of like these benefits cliffs where you reach a certain level, you make a certain amount of money and you lose some of those benefits. And then that's a that's a disincentive, you know, to do more. And so what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 6:05

It's very much so I little known fact, but in my 20s, I was on SSDI and I hated it. I hated it for that exact reason, having this income limit that, you know, now I'm I'm stuck to uh what is it, $2,000 in assets, total assets. That's yeah, that's nothing. No, not just your checking account, not just no, total assets, and I'm thinking that's insane. No one can live like that. But that's what they that then you become incentivized to be more reliant on the government, and then you're incentivized, like, well, yes, of course, I want Medicare to be expanded, and I want this, that, and the third to be expanded even more, give it more funding, more funding. And but again, the logical conclusion of that is gonna be that when the government is the hand that feeds you, they can and likely will also starve you. Yeah, they're the ones in charge. Yeah, and I I cannot fathom giving strangers that sort of authority, people who know nothing about my life, nothing about, and they're they're likely not operating from the same worldview that I am. They're imposing their worldview onto me.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I I and you and you know, strangely, it it and it kind of goes hand in hand with the youth in Asia conversation because you know, when the government is, you know, the there's limited funding, no matter what you say. Like we're not, you know, so so many. I I see so many progressive policies as well. Meaning, but uh, you know, they're operating under the thought that we can actually make everything good and right here on earth, like we can do the best we can, but uh we're this is a fallen world, right? And we we we'll never have a utopia here.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yes, that's exactly it. We are operating that the fundamental state of our reality is flawed, right? Yeah, and uh even progressives will agree, like, of course, things are not as they should be. It's just that we're operating from two different explanations. You know, the secular world is gonna say it's ableism and sexism, racism, you know, the set and the third. And for those of us, at least from a Christian worldview, and I would assume a lot of other religious worldviews too, there is this understanding, like, well, it's more than that. That's a symptom of the root cause. The root cause is this fundamental flaw, what we would refer to as sin, right? This fundamental flaw within every human being, within the state of reality as a whole.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And and oh, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

No, no, no. And go for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Well, I was just gonna say, I mean, to to get back to the um sort of the point I was making, which is just that um there is an incentive to push more euthanasia when funding is a part of that decision. When, you know, when when this person costs so much money and they're not contributing to society, they're less, you know, they're less important to society. Well, let's kind of push them in this direction, free up some funding in this direction. Um, and then lives just become a commodity. And, you know, the the the people that are pushing euthanasia, I don't, they would never say that. They would never maybe they don't even believe that, but that's just the reality of what will happen and what even is happening, I think, in places like Canada right now.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yes. And that's why, to me, I mean, I can remember even not even 10 years ago, the larger disabled community was very much opposed to the idea of euthanasia, very much like, you know, it was like the most able thing you could say was that disability is worse than death. Yes, that's so true. It is. And I'm thinking, like, what happened to that? What did happen? What honestly happened to that? That now you've essentially been gaslit into thinking that it's more compassionate to end your earthly life. And then for me as a Christian, and you know, I would say most of the Christian side of the internet would say, like, now that means stepping into an eternity that you may or may not be prepared for. And that's there, that's the thing. There's, I think, I think in the secular world, an assumption that once your life ends, you are either automatically going somewhere better or nothing is gonna happen. Or nothing, no one thinks, no one wants to confront the reality that there is a third option that we don't like to talk about. Right. Right. And for the people that are rejecting God, that are just completely, you know, want nothing to do with him, it's like I I hate to think that you've been disabled and had all of this earthly struggle and pain, and that's now going to be infinitely worse. And you have been deceived into thinking that's compassionate.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, we at Able Americans focus a lot on the inherent dignity of people with disabilities and all people. How do you think that public policy should reflect that dignity?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Where does it fall short? Well, for one thing, you have to start with an inherent right to life. If you do not have a right to life, you have no other rights after that. True. Nothing else, you can't have a right to anything else if you're not alive.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Well, that reminds me, I mean, that that goes to the whole conversation this past couple weeks about the couple that aborted the child because it had Down syndrome. Yep. I mean, and that, I mean, that had everyone up in arms. I mean, I I feel like left and right, no matter where you say, there's a lot of people very upset about that.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yes, yes, there was for sure. And I was surprised, I guess I shouldn't be, because the the overarching disabled community is very much on the left. But they they were defending it. They were defending it as a personal choice, right? Rather than saying something's wrong when this is the reason that you're doing this. I mean, it's wrong regardless, but still.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

What do you think it is like for an in like for the disability community? Why do you think so many of them are more on the left than the right or in the middle?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I think it's a lot of the promises of the social justice movements. A lot of the promises that, you know, we can have a better existence and we need these allies and this, that, and the. I think it's a lot of that. I think it's a lot. Um, I do know that the disabled community is very underreached, not just among Christians, but most major religions. So it's very underreached. So you've got people that are maybe already upset at the idea of a deity that's created them this way, or a deity that's allowed them to live this way. So I think there's already some emotional response against that. A lot of them have had problems in religious communities that they then just throw the baby out with the bath water, essentially. Um, and then the left makes these big promises, right? These big claims, like it'll be so much better. We're gonna love and accept you for exactly who you are. And and now all of a sudden, disability because disability is a descriptor of how you are, right? It's a physical description of how you are. Now they've equated that with who you are. You just it's not that you have a disability, yes, so much of it. And that's become a social identity to where that is now fundamentally.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

It has. It's been one of those, it's yes. Yeah, sorry, I thought I think we were a little uh delayed there. Um, yeah, it's become, you know, that whole um the hierarchy of oppression chart, you know, where they talk about like uh, you know, you know, you're this, you have how however many oppression points you have, and and a disability is certainly part of that. And I mean, there's a reality to that too. I mean, that is true. Like there, you know, there are things that are harder that make life more difficult, um, but it's then sort of weaponized against potentially would actually truly empower people in the long term. Um, and uh what is the quote? There's a quote, and I I can't remember who said it, but it's like we should be judging policies by their outcomes, not their intentions. And so I think so many progressive policies have great intentions. I think I think everybody wants, you know, the best and the good things to happen. But you have to look at the reality of how have things been going and able America exists because we want to, you know, be a real realistic looking at what's been happening and how can we change that to actually empower people instead of disempower them and give more to the government? We want to give more to the people and get rid of you know some of those benefits, cliffs, and things like that, um, so that everyone can thrive um in sort of their chosen profession or whatever it is they can or choose to do. Um what do you think what do you think families, churches, um, just surrounding communities can do to support people with disabilities better than government programs or in addition to government programs? Like what can we be doing that we're not doing? What do you what do you see as sort of things that could be better, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, I do know specifically within churches and religious communities, they're exempt from the Americans with Disabilities Act. So you've got a lot of very old buildings that maybe are not accessible, and then you're talking a community that's not getting any government funding, everything's run on volunteers, so they're realistically not very equipped to accommodate and be accessible for a lot of disabilities. And I think that's one thing we maybe do need to be a little bit more intentional about that and say, hey, if we are truly gonna say, right, our worldview is correct, and I'm gonna say this for all religious communities, right? If you're gonna say your worldview is correct, this is what we you know want for a flourishing society, you've got to reach the disabled because any one of you can also be disabled. And you've got to be prepared for that. You got to be because it's easy to say, of course, we believe everyone has inherent dignity and value. Absolutely. But if you're sending a missions team to a foreign country and you don't have a ramp outside your own front door, you've got to reevaluate some of these priorities.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

That's a good point. That's a really good point. Um, what would you say? Uh I guess thinking in some in terms of some of your videos and some of what you put out there, what are some of the biggest bits of pushback you get? Like comments that you get frequently from people who disagree with you?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I I would say probably the biggest one is that I am have internalized ableism. Um, because again, I am certainly far more conservative than the rest of the disabled community. And they don't understand how could I vote for policies that effectively in their mind is a form of eugenics. That's that's the thing. In their mind, these policies are a form of eugenics. And I'm I'm over here thinking, well, but wait a minute. If we do re-examine, let's say who's getting the benefits, we can make sure that these finite resources are allocated to those who need it most. Right? Having work requirements is not a bad thing. That that gives your life some structure, some purpose. Like we want, if you're gonna say you want disabled people to be empowered, like you say, well, then why are we voting to just have socialism and be dependent on whoever is elected at this point? So, but the biggest ones that I get about universal health care is a big one. People like that I'm not for that. People don't like that, because again, they see it as a rights issue. So the fact that I am pro-life, both with abortion and now with the other side of medical aid and dying, they see it as I'm taking away or voting to take away a certain right. And it's like, but you don't have a right to end a life.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

That's not right. Even your own, really. I mean, right. That's the that's that's the I guess the whole argument that they're making. It's such a I mean, you can make more than a even a faith-based argument for uh the right to life. Like you could you could make secular arguments for that too. It's just absolutely and there are it's a it's it's as if like there's it there really is like a sort of a culture of death that has overtaken um the I don't know if it's the West America, like North America, whatever it is. It's uh and and and I don't know what it is. I don't know, I don't know exactly where it's coming at. It could be, you know, the the fact that we are moving away from faith. We people aren't going to church, people are sort of the nuns in the middle. I don't do you have any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 20:15

I yeah, I do think that the more we sort of turn away from any sort of faith, any sort of God, um, and you see, you see this, I see this as the result of a very subjective morality. Because when you are moving away from faith, excuse me, moving away from God, you're moving away from any objective standard that says human life has value and it's wrong to end that. And now when you've got this more, because the last, I mean, at least in my lifetime, it's always been be authentic, live your truth, right? It's like, no, there is no your truth in my truth, there is the truth. Otherwise, it's an opinion. And I think the more we move into everything being so subjective, right? But there is, of course, the objectives claim that you must accept all subjective morality. Right, right, exactly. Right. The one that I say all the time is you're making an a judgment about judging, to say that it's wrong to judge. That is itself a judgment. You can't get away from that. But I certainly see that the more we try to make morality as subjective as possible, then yet the logical conclusion is that even the most egregious acts, somebody's gonna think that that's acceptable. Somebody's gonna say, in my worldview, that's okay. And that's what we're seeing the effects of.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Outside of, I know we've talked about universal health care, but outside of that, when you look at sort of disability disability advocacy out there on the internet, um What do you what is like something that you think that the larger community is getting wrong? Um, and then on the flip side of that, what's something that if you could have everyone's ear, if everyone was listening that had a you know sort of leadership role in this, what's something that you would say to them that you would want to see change or just a mindset shift for them?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Probably the biggest one is that we're not all going to be on the left. And that one is a big one because you know, there really isn't anybody other than me that I know of. I know of, well, I take that back, one other person. And I've had a couple in messages say, like, okay, you know what, I do agree more with you, but they won't say it out loud because the larger disability community is is not gonna stand for that. So I think there's there's very much a monolith that we have to move away from. And probably the biggest thing I would say is, especially if you're in the West, especially if you're in the United States, you are not nearly as oppressed as you think that you are. There are, I mean, there are other countries that have nothing equivalent to the disability rights that we have here. I'm by no means saying that it's perfect. No, our income threshold is egregiously low, right? Has no reflection on the actual cost of living. That's awful. We do need to change that. But to put it in perspective, other places don't even have that. Right, they have nothing. It's you're stuck in your family home until the end of your life. So I I think we need to maybe shift when we're talking about disability rights. It's like you need to look at the broader disability community globally. Like they don't have nearly the rights that we do as Americans.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of rights that we have as Americans that people do not appreciate, you know, those included. Um, and it is America 250 this year, so we'll we do want to celebrate those. Um, what else would you like? Is there anything else you'd like to say? Like, um, you know, I don't know if you're working on anything in particular on your channel right now, if you're seeing anything, any, any overarching messages that are sort of flying around that you might want to address. I I did see you address the uh God's throne is a wheelchair or something. Oh yes. Tell me about that because that made me laugh your response to it.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

That was well, and again, I see bad theology on all sides of the political spectrum when it comes to disability and within the church. You've got your Andrew Wilmack, Bethel, you know, that will tell you it's your fault you didn't believe enough to be healed. That's absolutely not a Christian teaching. No, I I mean, I I've read the Bible cover to cover, that's not in there. However, on the other side, I see the progressive ideas also coming in to religious communities to where, yeah, I've actually heard these statements that, well, God's throne has wheels on it, so we could imagine that as a wheelchair, or see Jesus resurrected with his crucifixion wound, so he's in a disabled body. And I'm thinking, you've got to be kidding me. You at this point, you're worshiping yourself.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Yeah, because is that is that hopeful to someone to think I'm gonna have the same body in in the in the afterlife?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I mean, wouldn't that be yes? I've heard some disabled professed Christians that will say that they want to keep their disability in heaven, that they, you know, in the coming new heavens, new earth that God is gonna create, they want to keep their disability. And they will say that that's the way they talk about it, it's almost like that's more important than even being in heaven, is to keep because it's so fundamental to who they are. That's why I say it's a difference in describing how versus who. And then I think at that point, um, you gotta be real. Now that's idolatry. Now you have taken your human condition, your diagnosis, and made that your little g god. And that's what you're idolizing. I mean, even like July is disability pride. Oh, right? I didn't know that. Oh, yes. And for one thing, I'm like, I first of all, I don't like that we talk about disability the same way as some of these other issues, demographics, because it's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

No, it's not at all the same thing, and so I I don't like that the broader disability community uses the same kind of language, like identifying as disabled, coming out as disabled, being an ally to like well, and and when it comes to um, you know, things like for example, the best example I can think of is autism, where people, I believe a lot of people that don't have autism are like, I'm autistic, you know, and they're you know, you see that either they're they're diagnosed incorrectly or they see it as this, oh, well, this explains everything about me, and I'm gonna claim this as an identity, and it becomes part of their Instagram bio, and it gives them some sort of, I guess there's a value attached to it.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

It's well, yeah, and they they there are some people out there diagnosing themselves, and that's that's one thing I think the most absurd thing that I hear out of the greater leftist disability community is the idea that if someone says they're disabled, you should automatically believe it, and that it's somehow wrong to question.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

That sounds familiar in terms of other ideologies, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

And I'm I'm thinking like that is the most, I mean, philosophy 101. You don't believe a claim just because someone says something, right? Claim anything, and and you know, and they're very offended at the idea that you have to give evidence of disability for anything. And I'm like, well, no, it's not wrong. I mean, when I want accommodations at my job, HR doesn't know who I am, much less what my disability is and how that affects me, they have no clue.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Right. And especially when you're talking about, you know, any kind of government benefits, you know, it's like, yeah, you're gonna need to prove that. We're not just gonna give you money, although there's a lot of fraud as well, right? Inside of some of the disability um uh government money. Like, you know, with the caregivers, that's been the one that's in the news.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

I I actually knew somebody. There was a doctor that lived across the street from me who was able to get disability SSDI money for his elderly mother overseas. And it was our mail carrier that caught on.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Oh my gosh. Mail carriers doing the Lord's work.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yes, yes, indeed. So when I hear from the greater disability community, like, oh, just believe it. Just I'm like, that's absurd to me. Why would I just believe anything because you've said it?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Mm-hmm. And then that gives, you know, then people think they have some sort of greater authority to speak on something. Um, and and then that actually does translate because there are people in government who's like, well, I'm gonna listen to this person because XYZ, um, and there is no sort of documentation about anything. Um, so that makes, yeah, that makes a that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

But but on the other hand, you'll notice they're not listening to somebody like me. Right. They're not listening, right? Because I can claim the same thing. I'm very visibly disabled, more so than some of these others on the left. You think they're gonna listen to me? Absolutely not. Why? Because I'm not going to just say, yep, everything is ableist. You're, you know, you're a victim of this, that, and the third. No.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Do you live in a state? Are you um, I don't know if you want to say where you live. I was gonna say, are you politically active at all in terms of like you know, trying to work on legislation or advocating for that?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

I'm starting to slowly through my social media do that more. I am I'm in Michigan. So I'm I'm in a blue state. Um, and I I follow and try to speak to issues, policy, particularly around chronic pain. That's a big one. Because now, most recent thing I've heard is that the states in in the United States that do offer euthanasia have some of the strictest prescribing laws for prescription pain medicine. Yeah, and yet they'll be like, here's your exactly there you go, go get euthanized yourself. Well, and because it's a voluntary, right? You've got to be able to take the medicine yourself. Medicine, the poison yourself. Right. I'm thinking, I'm sitting here thinking, so you mean to tell me there are doctors and pharmacists in these states that are going to say, nope, I'm not writing for the hydrocodone. Nope, I'm not gonna fill your oxycodone because you might get addicted and I might lose my license. But sure, I'll hand over a lethal dose of I don't know, whatever they give you.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

To end your own life rather than giving you the medication to help you live a life.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

It's like state-sanctioned murder almost.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

It is, yes. That is the most backwards thing. So when you say a culture of death, absolutely. Wow, absolutely, and so from a Christian standpoint, it's like, well, yeah, Satan is the one that comes to steal, kill, and destroy. This is a world that is run by the enemy at this point. I feel that for sure. And when this is what we've come to, where you've got the medical, the first do no harm, right? Hypocrite of medical community saying, I won't give you a full agonist opioid so that you can have some quality of life, hold a job, do things with your family. But if you want to end your life, no problem, not a second thought. We'll fill that today.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah, that's so that's so interesting. I have heard from people. Um, I actually used to work with an organization um for multiple sclerosis, and uh, you know, there was a lot of people there that struggled with being able to get enough of the pain meds that they needed and things like that. So um, you're right, like it's like it, it's like this backwards mentality, like they went way too far in one direction, but then like went off over here completely to the left, like in a totally different direction. And it's just really lacking in logic.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It is. It is so lacking in life, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Ella. I appreciate your voice. Um, it where can people follow you, learn more about you? I don't know if you have other resources on your website or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

I certainly do. So I am the disapologist on all social media platforms. Um, I do Instagram, Facebook, a little bit of YouTube. I'm dabbling into the longer form content. Most of my content is short form, um, but absolutely you can message me. I do answer messages through Instagram, TikTok, what have you. Um, and I I appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast. This has been great. I like I said, you know, most people are listening to the far off left side.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Well, we are um Able Americans is uh one of a kind, so as far as we know. So uh we're hoping to make some some headway with some of these more um economically free policies to really empower people.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

So I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, and I'm happy to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Thank you.