What does the World Health Organization actually do?

Many people know WHO from global emergencies like COVID-19. But what does the World Health Organization actually do the rest of the time? How does WHO develop health recommendations ? Does WHO tell countries what to do? And why does trust matter more than ever?

In this special launch episode of Health Reality Check, host Dr Margarida Santos sits down with Dr Hans Kluge, WHO Regional Director for Europe, for a candid conversation about how WHO works behind the scenes, how science becomes public policy, why prevention is often invisible when it succeeds, and the biggest health challenges facing Europe today.

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Health Reality Check is a podcast from the World Health Organization that goes beyond the headlines to explore what the evidence says about today’s biggest health questions. Hosted by family doctor Dr Margarida Santos, each episode brings together leading  experts and professionals public health for clear answers to complex questions. From nutrition and cancer to digital health and health inequalities, we put health claims under the microscope. Whether you're making decisions about your own health or trying to make sense of today’s health debates, Health Reality Check gives you the evidence behind the headlines.

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Show notes/links

WHO Regional Office for Europe: https://www.who.int/europe

Heat-health action plans: https://www.who.int/europe/health-topics/climate-change-and-health/heat-and-health

 Second European Programme of Work (EPW2): https://www.who.int/europe/about-us/our-work/second-european-programme-of-work-2026-2030

WHO – what we do? https://www.who.int/about/what-we-do/

No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health: No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

Mental Health of doctors and nurses https://www.who.int/europe/publications/i/item/WHO-EURO-2025-12709-52483-81031

Global Status report on cancer 2026: https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240123977

Transcript

Dr Margarida Santos 0:10

When people hear WHO, they often think of pandemics, global emergencies, or headlines about bacon and cancer risk. But what and who exactly is the World Health Organization? How does WHO work with countries, and how does science become policy? If you're as curious as I am about what happens behind the scenes of public health, this episode is for you. Today we're joined by Dr. Hans Gluge, WHO Regional Director for Europe, to talk about how the WHO actually works, how health decisions are made, why trust in health institutions matters, and what are some of the biggest health challenges facing Europe today. Hans, thank you so much for joining us.

Dr Hans Kluge 0:51

My pleasure. Thank you.

Dr Margarida Santos 0:52

So first of all, let's kind of understand what exactly is the WHO. Because there's still a lot of, I mean, we we all recognize WHO, but what exactly does the WHO do?

Dr Hans Kluge 1:03

Yes, so there are many what we call United Nations agencies. WHO is what we call the specialized technical agency for health. So health is our mandate. What's our mission? Our mission is health for all. Health meaning not only the absence of disease that you have to cure someone, but also try to remain healthy, particularly as you get older. Now, could they in fact say WHO is maybe the biggest public health university in the world? It's not that we are necessarily knowing it all better, but we know what's happening in each of the 194 countries.

Dr Margarida Santos 1:43

You kind of build the bridge between all countries so we all learn from each other. Yes. And that's interesting because we kind of have this idea that the WHO tells countries what to do, but that's not at all what is.

Dr Hans Kluge 1:54

Oh, Margarida, so important that you clarify this that countries or people think I don't like the WHO because they tell I should be forced to be vaccinated. We should uh lock down uh the countries. No, no, no. We have what we call soft power, it means we are gathering the evidence, what's available of the science, and then give it to the countries to make sound policy. But our governors, we are what we call governed by member states.

Dr Margarida Santos 2:23

But that's important because that's something I didn't realize. That's that you're actually as an institution, you work with the country, so they also tell you these are our needs and this is what we need to focus on, right? It's absolutely you don't just decide, okay, today this year we're going to talk about just about alcohol or tobacco. The countries also tell you we have this uh special need or right.

Dr Hans Kluge 2:44

Actually, the WHO is the only UN agency which has three levels. The headquarters, most people know, is in Geneva. Right? Our director, General Dr. Tedros, is sitting there, and they make a lot of guidelines which are relevant for all 194 countries.

Dr Margarida Santos 3:00

Like breastfeeding guidelines, whatever.

Dr Hans Kluge 3:01

Exactly exactly, bravo, or HIV or or uh tuberculosis. But this also means that it's quite generic. So what we do, like here in Copenhagen, there are six regional offices. The European office is one of them. We adapt this global guideline to the European region. Okay, and then we have a third level in 153 countries, we have a country office. Like for example, in let's say uh Ankara in Turkey or in Chisno in Moldova, and there there are teams which are working according to the priorities of the country. We never impose ourselves. Okay, we ask to the country, to the Minister of Health, usually, what is your national health plan? Where would you like to have some extra uh brain or extra hands?

Dr Margarida Santos 3:47

But how does that happen? Do you meet with them? Is this something that is done multiple times a year? Is it like you have one big meeting with everyone at the same time? I'm curious.

Dr Hans Kluge 3:57

Yeah, great points. So usually in October we have our governing board meeting. Okay. Then the 53 ministers of health come to Copenhagen because my region is the one with the largest number of member states from UK to Vladivostok, Turkey, Israel, Central Asia is a big one. We come together. Okay, but then in between, whenever there's a new minister, I invite him or her to Copenhagen to expose the minister to our whole work portfolio, and there is where the matching happens. The minister presents his or her priorities for the reform, and then we present our portfolio and we see where we match.

Dr Margarida Santos 4:34

But then how do you because every country is very different, uh either culturally, right? When, for example, thinking about alcohol policies. Yes. I'm sure it's very different from country to country. Do you, once you get all the evidence and you work on these guidelines, then do you meet with different countries and advise them in a different way? How does it work? Is it also I I want to ask you, is it challenging to uh work with the health ministers and advise them? How is that relationship?

Dr Hans Kluge 5:02

Yes. So we work a lot sub-regional. For example, we work with the five Central Asian countries, with the Balkan countries, with the Nordics, and that works very well because they have similar language, similar history, and similar priorities. Now, on the relation with the ministry, uh, usually, you know, often they are from the health field. You know, we we speak literally almost the same language, like you, Margarita. But the challenge is more with the other ministries, and what what's very important to remember for the people is that actually the health sector accounts only about 20% for improving health. 80% depends on other ministers, like uh let's say um uh housing or exactly housing, which often has a bigger impact on health than a hospital.

Dr Margarida Santos 5:54

But Hans, that's exactly and even we had one episode with Mike where Michael Marmot said, Oh yes, my friend. He quoted he quoted um a minister that said, every minister is a health minister.

Dr Hans Kluge 6:05

Yes.

Dr Margarida Santos 6:06

And it's exactly what you're saying, where really, I mean, if the person doesn't have uh a place to sleep at, or if uh their uh job doesn't give them the conditions to have a good life, it's very hard to give health advice. Yes. But then wouldn't it be important for, for example, the WHO to also meet with these other ministers? Do you think this is something that would uh make health help us look at the bigger picture?

Dr Hans Kluge 6:31

Absolutely. It's potum. Actually, we have a term for this, it's called health in all policies. So we are working on that one, never bypassing the Ministry of Health, but together. And that's what Ministry of Health appreciates from WHO. They say it's not necessarily that you say many more things, but it gives an importance with the WHO. Exactly, to go together to the Prime Minister and say, without health, how can you have competitiveness? The the challenge that we have, uh Margarita, and that that that that's a big one, is we're not as doctors not always good in explaining to another minister the importance. We speak a little bit over jargon.

Dr Margarida Santos 7:11

But it creates a gap between that's true, the communication is a very important part.

Dr Hans Kluge 7:15

It's essential. So now we are doing a lot of training into developing that narrative, and not only to ministers, also to the people. We have to explain to the person in the street what is WHO, what does it mean, you know, to uh to have a healthy lifestyle, to speak people language.

Dr Margarida Santos 7:32

But for example, uh, we had a recent heat wave that was very big, and for me that was the perfect example of everyone, you know, they're interviewing health experts on okay, what um what things do we need to be careful about with the heat wave? But really, this is a problem of climate change, of housing, like houses are not ready for the heat wave. And I feel like that's the challenge. How do you get the other ministers to realize that we really all need to work together? Yes, and it can't just be the health policies, it needs to be like the global policies.

Dr Hans Kluge 8:02

Yes. Everything starts with data. WHO is the the I always say the guardian of good sound data. And the data speaks for itself. Last year, 50,000 people in our region. This speaks to every minister. But for the heat, actually, a lot of action is to happen at the local level. If I went to Berlin, I mean it's amazing. The Health Commission in Berlin implemented 72 actions of our action plan guidelines, for example, to put blue water fountains. It's very simple. But people see it, oh yeah, I I'm reminded I should uh drink before I get thirsty, right? Or they put shaded uh bus stops or play yards. So there are very simple things to do that does not necessarily cost money, including in places where you don't have air conditioning.

Dr Margarida Santos 8:53

Right? It's interesting to see that even this concept of uh one health or you know the building a healthy city, sometimes it's not just about giving advice, it's also about creating an environment where it's easier for you to be healthy. Yes. And the WHO also does that, right? You get all of this information, and what I from working now in the podcast, what I thought was fascinating is the transparency, the fact that everything is very evidence-based and you're very careful making sure that everything is has no conflicts of interest and all that.

Dr Hans Kluge 9:25

Very important, yes, because sometimes people say, Oh, are they influenced by the industry or by the pharma or this? Listen, the WHO really has to stick to its scientific independence. Not everyone likes it. What comes out of the evidence? For example, we know now that every level of uh drinking alcohol harms. We are not telling to the people that they cannot have uh a beer anymore or something. We're just giving the evidence that it harms, it increases seven types of uh of cancer, and then it's up to the country, it's up to the people to do. We don't have this mandate and we shouldn't do this, but we should tell what is evidence.

Dr Margarida Santos 10:03

Yeah, it's really interesting because it's exactly that where uh that that when you give a recommendation, you just want people to have the knowledge on their side so they can make an informed decision.

Dr Hans Kluge 10:12

Informed decision, yes.

Dr Margarida Santos 10:12

Never telling people what to do.

Speaker 10:14

Yes.

Speaker 3 10:15

And that leads me, so I want to get to know you a little better as well because I know you were also a family doctor, and I'm a family doctor.

Speaker 2 10:21

Yes.

Speaker 3 10:21

And then how did you go into public health and into WHO? How did your interests go into that? I'm curious.

Speaker 10:29

So I was uh educated by my dad, a surgeon, and my uh mum, a nurse. Okay, according to a simple but very important principle that uh each person is to be treated independent of religion, background, sexual orientation, gender. So I started as a family doctor, and then I started with Médecins of Frontier, with doctors without borders, in some very difficult uh circumstances during the civil war in Somalia. And there I got to know if you really want to have a big impact, you want to have an impact on thousands, ten thousand of people, this is public health. This is good policy. Policy, good policy saves lives.

Speaker 3 11:08

That's I think once you dive into all these themes, that's exactly what you realize. And as a family doctor, that's it. Sometimes I realize that we need health policies that protect people. Yes. And it's not enough to just say this is healthy, this is unhealthy. You need to what did you learn from that experience and working in Doctors Without Borders? Is there anything that you took from that and that still has impact in your work today?

Speaker 11:32

Absolutely. First thing, people are the same everywhere. I worked in North Korea, in Myanmar. You know, people want one thing a better future for their children. That's it, right? So health is very important because mortality under five years is too high still. Maternal mortality, I mean, can you imagine every two minutes still a pregnant woman is is dying because there is no safe uh delivery. I mean, it's unacceptable. So there again, training of uh skilled birth attendants, doesn't have to be necessarily uh a doctor, is very, very important. So this gave me the motivation always to keep in mind if you make policy, will it change the life of the most poor, the most vulnerable? And I have a special initiative. Um it's to address violence against women and girls. We're not doing uh I just saw the figures. Uh when there is a no, but if the football, if uh one I will not name it, one country was uh uh lost with 30% domestic violence was increasing. I mean it's crazy. And no one talks about uh that one. And that uh was uh given to me in uh Somalia when I saw girls who who uh you know were suffering uh a lot, and also how you have to uh try to address this in the local culture. You cannot come and then you you had to talk with the uh tribes with uh respect uh the culture.

Speaker 3 12:55

So so it's it's uh you can't just go and and put rules, right? You need to understand why things are happening and also understand the culture. Right.

Speaker 13:04

And right, and this is the same in uh in Europe as well. So this basic respect for everyone. No, everyone has right to health and to dignity.

Speaker 3 13:13

Every human life is a human life and should be respected.

Speaker 13:16

Yes.

Speaker 3 13:17

But that's uh uh that's super important, and I think what should drive every uh health professional to be a health professional, but health inequalities are very hard to fight, and sometimes we kind of fall into this myth where, well, why should I, if I'm privileged, why should I be worried about it? But fighting health inequalities is important for everyone as a society, right?

Speaker 13:38

Yes, especially, you know, we see happening in the world is pretty scary. No, we we create what we call two-tier systems. It means I'm uh like you were mentioning, I'm rich, I can pay for healthcare, I'm poor, I have to wait for months, and maybe I will uh die uh before. Right? So this is we this is a red line. We we have to stand strong in the region and globally on equity, also from an even egoistic point of view, I would say. What did we see with Hunter virus, with Ebola? That no one is safe until everyone is safe. You know, I can be very rich and have all the wealth, but uh a virus doesn't stop at my home, right? Of course. I have to breathe. So, in that sense, it's both a value issue that we have to help each other, but also health security. That uh there's so many health issues, climate change we mentioned already, no one escapes from it.

Speaker 3 14:32

And wouldn't you say that's also why it's so important to have health institutions that are independent and that are giving this uh uh advice and coming up with all this information so that we make sure evidence and policies are accessible to all and take everyone into account?

Speaker 14:47

Absolutely, two things. One, WHO really needs to focus on evidence, independent, and number two, which some countries have difficulty with, we shall never politicize health. There are many wars in the world, health for all. You know, people, the the normal people, no one wants war, right? Of course. If a child with uh cancer in some war-torn country, we shouldn't look to what's happening with the government, we should help the child.

Speaker 3 15:16

Health is a human right and it shouldn't be but that's sometimes a challenge with countries. It it that is that uh decisions on political uh on health policies are very political instead of evidence-based and separate.

Speaker 15:28

Absolutely, this is a red line. I mean health for uh for everyone.

Speaker 3 15:32

Yes, for sure. Um I also want to ask, because we associate a lot of WHO with, you know, COVID and emergency and pandemics, but what exactly how is the day of uh a person who works at the WHO? Because there's a lot of other stuff you guys do, you know, it's not just about that.

Speaker 15:47

We work a lot on what we call preparedness. The best way to manage a crisis, be it a heat wave or a uh chemical disaster or a flooding or earthquake, is to be working on preparedness. And for this, like for the we uh published the guidelines on heat health action to prepare uh cities and countries before it uh hits, and that we do a lot of training, we do a lot of uh capacity building exchange between the countries. So this is uh one element. Number two is to keep the world safe. People don't see this, but in this building we have uh an emergency room where every single day we analyze about I think 20,000 what we call signals picked up from media, from newspapers, from uh surveillance. It's something that could become a threat. For example, we had uh children dying still from uh cuff syrup which was toxic, or from baby food, which was not safe, or a virus, you know, a variant of a certain flu virus that we don't know yet is it going to become an outbreak or not. So we are analyzing this. It's like actually I have to remember um I think it was Sherlock Holmes uh he told. He said, if it's quiet, it means we're doing a good job. But usually we're in the news when it explodes. But if it's quiet, it means my guys here are doing a good job.

Speaker 3 17:13

That's like prevention, right? When it works, people don't realize.

Speaker 17:16

Absolutely, prevention is so important.

Speaker 3 17:18

I remember uh they told me this in the first year of medical school. They're like, if you're doing your job right, no one will really tell you're there, but if you do something wrong, everyone will know. And with the WHO, this kind of happened with COVID. And one argument that a lot of people have is oh, why should I trust the WHO after what happened with COVID?

Speaker 17:35

Yeah.

Speaker 3 17:35

How would you react to that? What would you tell them?

Speaker 17:38

I think first and foremost, not to be defensive. We could have communicated better. You spoke about communication, that to explain to the people that good science takes time. Now, what was the big headache that there was no time because people were dying from, let's not forget, a completely new virus that we didn't know. For example, usually you would infect someone with a virus if you have symptoms, you're coughing. But for the COVID, even we found out uh later on that without symptoms, you could still you could still transmit. We didn't know this. So when all of a sudden WJO told masks are very important, people were telling me these guys are flip-flopping. No, no, it is because the science developed. But what we also learned is that we had to give advice to countries before we knew with certainty that something was proven. We we couldn't wait. And that's why it's very important to tell the people what you don't know. Very transparent, that we don't know. The moment we know, we're going to tell. And it's not because we flip-flop policy, it's because we have new evidence. This is very important.

Speaker 3 18:51

But that's a very and science usually isn't very like that because we don't want to admit we don't know something. But for the population, I uh don't you agree that yes, it's better when we admit, okay, this we still don't know, so let's be careful. Absolutely. But you definitely, and I I feel like, do you think if if if a new emergency came, you would be a lot more prepared and learning and and that's the thing, it doesn't take credibility away from an institution when you admit that okay, there's things that we are looking into.

Speaker 19:17

Absolutely. Transparency, integrity. People will much more trust an institution that is open to learn the lessons, which we did, we did a lot of lesson learning on that one, than an institute, which you know thin that it knows uh everything uh basically. That's absolutely very uh very key.

Speaker 3 19:32

You also think the f there's a lot of formality in these institutions, right? And I, from uh uh an outsider's perspective, I do understand there is there has to build you have to build credibility and but don't you think the language is also sometimes a barrier to get to the population?

Speaker 19:48

Oh absolutely. Actually, I was surprised when when we we got to know each other, you asked me if they could say Hans.

Speaker 3 19:54

Yeah, can I call you Hans? Yes, yes.

Speaker 19:55

Everyone is a person we should we should really communicate with actually we should communicate different to different audiences because of the scientists, I mean we have to be very, very scientific, but you're absolutely right. To the people we have I always tell to uh my communications people make sure that my granny from eight years understand the press statement.

Speaker 3 20:16

Yes, for example, then the world uh the report on cancer, it's uh like 300 pages, and it's super interesting. As a doctor, I was reading it and I was fascinated.

Speaker 20:25

But it's also important that that information gets to people in a more informal and that's why uh one of the first things I did seven years ago when I became regional director was to establish the Youth for Health movement. Actually, my eldest daughter is also a part of it. I am asking them advice how to communicate to the youth. Yes, you know, I'm still using myself Facebook. I mean, who looks to uh Facebook? The same generation, but they are on the TikTok, on the Instagram. So ask the youth their help. There are many enthusiastic youth who want to help us.

Speaker 3 20:57

That's super true, and it leads it uh makes me think about another problem, which is misinformation and disinformation, which is a big thing. And I think sometimes it's also the fact that because people don't have uh information in an easy way and without jargon and everything, they look for uh information where it is.

Speaker 2 21:14

Yes.

Speaker 3 21:15

Do you think it's also a health threat and how can we overcome it and maybe also be there and be present?

Speaker 21:22

It's a big threat. I know with AI, almost you don't know if something is real or not. So, of course, all this information, first I start, you know, I'm I'm an optimist, so I start with the positive. Actually, it helped a lot also during the lockdown, for example, that still there was social contact. So it has this advantage, but people to take information from trusted sources, actually, who's uh doing this uh very well is uh your home country is uh Portugal. I asked once to a previous minister why the vaccination rate are always uh so high in Swordstand. Listen, Hans, we have this from primary school, from the schools. I'm a great supporter of collaboration between the health sector. And the education sector. If children are exactly Finland also, if you uh the earlier you educate the children, the better. That vaccination is part of good practice, right? Of being healthy. A healthy society is a actually a big one, really, yes.

Speaker 3 22:19

Yes, tackling schools and the fact because a lot of myths that we have come from the very, you know, the what you learn in school and what we get told.

Speaker 22:26

And also what I call the trusted people in society. I always remember that my my daughters, who who in the beginning also didn't want to wear a mask, were wearing a mask, not necessarily because their father, original director, was telling, but because their sport idol was wearing a mask in the tennis or the basket. Actually, here it's a good example with the MPOX. What I did in the beginning of the MPOX, I immediately invited the uh people in charge for the uh prides. You know, and we sit together and we gave very clear messages also to the uh LGBTQI plus community. Actually, Portugal did this very well with the MPOX before vaccination by empowering trusted people in the society. They know how to communicate. Another one was during COVID-19. I went with the Minister of Health in Greece to meet the uh priests and archbishop because the there it was the elderly people who didn't want to be vaccinated at some rural uh islands. Who did they trust? It was their clergy, their priests. So let's think who the people trust, right, and work with them and empower them with scientifically sound messages.

Speaker 3 23:35

And also, and and that's something you here at the WHO you do a lot, which is listen to the population population. So understand what the questions are. Because sometimes when we're in the scientific field, we think the questions are one thing, but then people actually want to know another. And so listening and understanding understanding that is also helpful.

Speaker 23:53

Yes, good. It's basic, no? Listening. But we forget to listen uh nowadays.

Speaker 3 23:57

True, exactly, and it's the first step of communication. When you look across Europe and Central Asia today, what health challenges worry you the most?

Speaker 24:06

You you mentioned already, right, the uh inequalities. This is in every uh country. It's not anymore between you're a poor country or a rich country, within one and the same country, particularly uh big cities. So you have a lot of uh poverty over there and then a lot of uh sickness. Of course, we we have a pretty complicated uh region. We have triple burden, I call it triple agenda. Number one, what I call the unfinished agenda, maternal and child mortality. No, it's a big issue. Second is what we call the chronic diseases, non-communical. Most of us and diabetes yes, diabetes, uh heart disease. Most of us are going to pass away from uh a heart attack or a stroke. And then third one uh is still the communical, the infectious disease, tuberculosis, HIV AIDS. And across those three, I am very con maybe that's my biggest concern is mental health. No, the mental health in the youth in our service, but also in the healthcare workers. One out of three healthcare workers is really struggling, particularly after COVID-19. So mental health, the biggest thing we have to do is to talk about it. It's not still there's a lot of stigma and discrimination within the health workforce as well. I always say it's okay not to be okay. Everyone can have a dip. It's fine. Talk to each other.

Speaker 3 25:24

But it's also, I feel like, it's a manifestation of a much bigger problem, the fact that, you know, why why are we so anxious and there's so much of it? Because really there's a lot of stuff going on. Yes. And when we talk about health inequalities, it's very important to talk about it. But sometimes I wonder what we can do to tackle this because it's becoming very hard. And you talked about infections. I always think about tuberculosis, for example. There's a lot of infections where, or even cancer. If we look at cancer, the probability of you um being able to fight that cancer and having access to treatment has a lot more to do with your postal code than your genetics. And this is frightening, right? Because it shouldn't be, I mean, it should be accessible to all. How do we fight this?

Speaker 26:05

Actually, I will go back to your core business and my core business, primary health care. Family medicine. I'm such a strong believer of primary health care. Bring the care closer first and foremost for prevention. Right? You can keep the people healthy. When I was a family doctor in Belgium, I was basically the trusted figure of the whole family. So when I went somewhere, you you you knew the whole situation, and each time, each encounter was an opportunity for some counseling, for some health education, maybe to smoke a little bit less or to drink a little bit less because they trusted me. And if a disease like cancer is being detected, to try to do it early on. Because we can treat and manage a whole number of cancers. We need to be early in the hospital, it's too late.

Speaker 3 26:56

I think uh uh general practice and public health have this in common. Their job is a lot about people not needing us too much. Yes, and so it's very invisible, and that's challenging. At least uh where I come from, I see this a lot where people don't really value primary care. You know, we celebrate a lot this innovative treatment that treats cancer, but then we have tools that help us uh prevent so many diseases, and there's no awareness or investment in them. So that's also a little challenging, right?

Speaker 27:23

I I must say, Marie, that the the at least I when I speak to ministers, from 10 years ago this the narrative is changing. They see with the aging of the population that the hospitals are collapsing. Okay. So they have to move it out too. And how do you keep uh manage uh aging again? By not by uh managing the elderly people, start early. Of course. Because the life expectancy increased with 10 years over the last decades. But we live we live older, sicker.

Speaker 3 27:53

And we want to live with quality of life, right? Not just longer.

Speaker 27:56

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3 27:57

So if governments could do just one thing that would improve health for millions of people, what do you think it would be?

Speaker 28:03

Oh, this one is straightforward, and I'm going to be very uh blunt here. It's to stop the war. I mean, I have both Russia and Ukraine in uh my region. I mean, every day. How many hundreds, thousands of uh people are suffering? Then uh Israel, Gaza. I mean, the best medicine is peace. Losing so many people, you know, this is something very, very uh painful. Yes, uh I I know we have uh another one in the Middle East which is bordering our uh region. I mean this is what governments should really sit around uh the table, right? We we don't politicize health, and then what concerns me most of all and uh keeps me up at night are these attacks on on health care, on hospitals, ambulances. When I was working in during the civil war in Somalia and Liberia, I saw some cruel things, but I was protected by my white coat. Now it's crazy, and it it happens so much that I see it becomes a new normal. This cannot be. This cannot become the new normal. We have to be activist and revolutionary on that one is a no-go.

Speaker 3 29:08

Hans, that's that's so interesting because it goes back to what you said in the beginning that every life is every every person has the right to be healthy. And also it makes me think, you know, when we learn CPR, the first thing you're taught to do is to check if you're safe to save that person. And when you when you replied, I mean, when I asked the question, maybe I was thinking you would say stuff like, you know, health policy. But it's like peace, you need security to implement health to implement healthy lives. So now let's look into the future. What gives you hope and what would your top priorities be for the next 10 years of the WHO?

Speaker 29:45

Hope is very important. I always say uh hope it is. Hope dies the last. So there was something that gave me tremendously hope a couple of months ago. There was the 75th anniversary of the International Federation of Medical Students, and it was in Denmark, because Denmark is a was a founding uh uh member, and I was speaking Friday evening, 10:30 at the closing, still everyone enthusiast. I was looking around and I was telling when I spoke, there was such enthusiasm and applause. I say there is a new generation of doctors, nurses ready to take on the challenges. So that's I'm a great believer of youth. Great believer.

Speaker 3 30:19

And let me just ask you, um, not sure you if you don't want me to ask this question, but there is You can ask any question.

Speaker 30:26

Okay, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 30:28

But um, I also think it's important for people to understand what do we risk if we stop having institutions like the WHO, which are independent. Is it something that we should be worried about? And I mean, because it it is so important in the way that it worries about health inequalities and making sure health is accessible to all, is it something we should really value before it's too late?

Speaker 30:49

Absolutely. We we don't need a weaker, we need a stronger WHO. I want to give an example here. It's who which country was responsible to tackle HANTA virus? You know which country? No country. So many nationalities, you know, the boat was there, no one, and you saw no one wanted to deal. WHO was there. We spoke to uh countries to let the ship disembark of right to to help the people. There has to be at least one global health conscience that no one is being left behind.

Speaker 3 31:23

Hans, thank you so much. This was super interesting. It's interesting to look at behind the scenes.

Speaker 31:27

I learned a lot.

Speaker 3 31:28

And thank you so much for letting me call you hands and do all the questions. Yes, thank you so much.

Speaker 31:33

Thank you. Thank you, my president.