New Era Reseller
New Era Reseller is the podcast for regular people who want to build a real income using arbitrage strategies, without gimmicks, gurus, or guesswork. Each week we break down the moves that work right now: how to find products that actually sell, how to read the data so you stop guessing, and how to price and restock for steady profit.
But this is not only about the numbers. Building a business builds you. So alongside the tactics we talk about the habits, mindset, and small daily wins that turn a side hustle into something that lasts.
This is for people who want to build a predictable, sustainable, scalable source of income, without feeling like they are putting money into a slot machine. No hacks. No tricks. Just real business principles, and a practical playbook for building a business, and a life, you are proud of.
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New Era Reseller
Profit Tune-Up: Scaling Beyond ROI Limits
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About 20 minutes into a coaching session, Brian said something he had never said to a client before: "I don't know what I would change."
Not one red line. A seller one year into the business, running just under $14,000 a month in revenue with more than $2,000 a month in net profit. A 3.29 multiplier when the typical seller runs 1.80 to 1.85. Seventeen percent gross margin, 56% gross ROI, and just under 50% net ROI after overhead. Brian says the only place he normally sees numbers that clean is private label.
So what do you do when the diagnostic comes back with no problem to solve?
You start a completely different conversation. In this episode Brian and Robin Joy walk through what happens after the numbers are already good: the difference between growing and scaling, why the margin percentage was never the real constraint, and why trading a few points of ROI for ten times the volume is the trade most sellers refuse to make right before they hit their own ceiling.
They get specific about the handoff, too. This client has more than 300 replenishable ASINs and spends about eight hours a week on prep and ship, which is exactly why he has stopped finding new products. Brian breaks down why a prep center at $1.50 a unit would gut a business earning $2.15 a unit in profit, why hiring by the hour changes that math, and why you should plan on three to four weeks of training before you are fully out of it.
Robin Joy pushes on the part most people miss. Being frugal and keeping your risk low is a good instinct, but it comes in two versions. One builds a moat that protects you. The other builds a cage. They look identical right up until they don't.
There is also the target scoreboard nobody wants to talk about. Ninety days earlier they set four goals and he hit two. Inbound transportation dropped from 50 cents to 40 cents a unit. Profit per unit went from $1.72 to $2.15. Average sales price moved, but not to goal. Two out of four, and the two that landed compounded enough to carry the rest. You can miss half your targets and still get the year right when you decided before you were in the situation.
Plus, a shout-out to Matt Hassler, who just crossed eight figures in annual revenue on a 77-day cash cycle. That is five turns of his money a year. Five turns at these kinds of returns is not something you can buy anywhere else.
The quote this week comes from Michael Gerber, author of The E-Myth: if your business depends on you, you don't own a business, you own a job. That sentence lands very differently when the business is losing money than when it is netting 50% and still cannot run without you.
In this episode:
- Why "there is nothing to fix" is the start of the hardest coaching conversation, not the end of one
- The old 3x rule from 2015, why it is dead, and what Brian actually targets now (2.0 to 2.5)
- The three nitpicks that survived a clean review: FBA fees, storage at a penny over ideal, and refunds
- Using Keepa's low-return tag and a four-star-and-up rating filter to cut refund exposure, and why beginners should skip this entirely
- Growing (2x, do more of what you already do) versus scaling (10x, build something different)
- Why giving up ROI percentage can grow ROI dollars, and the turn-rate math behind it
- Prep and ship versus sourcing: which one to hand off first, and why sourcing is usually the worst first outsource
- Paying by the piece versus paying by the hour when your profit per unit is thin
- Splitting the task instead of the whole job, and why outsourcing does not have to be all or nothing
- The $1,000 / $1,000 split: fund a new channel with money the business made, not money out of your pocket
- Why hitting two of four targets was still a win
- The car in great shape that is still the same old car
Free tool mentioned: The Profit Tune-Up. Upload your Amazon or Seller Board data (a Seller Board screenshot works), and the AI-driven analysis runs the same review Brian runs in a live coaching session. Find it at officialolsons.com (all O's, no E's).
The hardest version of this problem is the one where nothing is broken. Clean numbers, a real ceiling, and the only thing standing between you and a bigger business is the eight hours a week you have not handed off yet.
Run your own numbers. The Profit Tune-Up is free. Upload your Amazon or Seller Board data, or even a Seller Board screenshot, and get the same review Brian runs in a live coaching session. officialolsons.com
Everything else lives in one place. The newsletter, the coaching, the community, and the rest of the tools are all at officialolsons.com (all O's, no E's).
New episodes weekly. If this one helped, leave a rating. It is the single easiest thing you can do for us.
The New Era Reseller is part of the Modern Builders Network, hosted by Brian and Robin Joy Olson.
Become undeniable.
Profit Tune-Up: Scaling Beyond ROI Limits
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Brian: [00:00:00] So I ran a profit tune-up this week with a client.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: Now, I hadn't talked to this person in three months, so we actually reviewed a full three-month window.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: This is the second time I'm meeting with him. So we put some things in place to, like, make some adjustments, and I'm looking through his numbers.
About 20 minutes in, I said something I have never said to a coaching client before.
Robin Joy: And what was that?
Brian: I don't know what I would change.
Robin Joy: Wow. Really?
Brian: Nothing. Not one- You
Robin Joy: mean it looked good.
Brian: Not one red line.
Robin Joy: He had made the adjustments he said he was gonna make. All was good. That's great.
Brian: Um, and here's the thing that really surprised me the most, right?
This was really just the start of a whole new conversation. So welcome back to the Modern Builders Network. We are The Official Olsens. I'm Brian.
Robin Joy: And I'm Robin Joy.
Brian: And this is the new era reseller.
Robin Joy: Hi, [00:01:00] everybody.
Brian: So, um, this was actually, this took place a couple weeks ago.
Robin Joy: Okay, so what came up in the, in the, in that coaching session that you want to talk about?
I want to talk about it.
Brian: I know. It sounds pretty good, right?
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Intriguing?
Robin Joy: Yes.
Brian: Yeah. Well, um, so we have this tool called a Profit Tune-Up.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: It is a free, um, online tool where you can upload, like, your data from, uh, Amazon or from Seller Board. Mm-hmm. A screenshot even from Seller Board works really well.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Drop it into this little window. Uh, theoretically, you're evaluating a 30-day period, or however long of a period you want.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: And the, and the application will detect what the, what the time period was, and go through and do some analysis.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: And that analysis is based on the way I would normally run one of these profit tune-up sessions.
Robin Joy: Now, where do we get this profit tune-up that you're talking about? You can find it- I know everybody wants to know ...
Brian: at
Robin Joy: officialolsens.com. Officialolsens.com, all O's, no E's.
Brian: Yes. So, [00:02:00] um, so this client that I have been working with, like I said, um, and we did set some targets back in the spring- Mm-hmm ... and this was basically a remeasure.
Okay. Okay? This is the second time, only the second time, that I've gotten to do a remeasure with clients, okay? That's, that's the unfortunate part of this. Um, actually, it's the third time. I take that back, it's the third time. But the, um, but this is the first time it actually happened with the new automated application, which is agentic.
That's fun. Yeah. It, it's- Yeah ... it is AI-driven, but like I said, or like you've heard us say before, AI is only as good as how much it knows you. Mm-hmm. And I trained that thing so well on the way that I do this, it is just so spot on.
Robin Joy: So this, this particular client came back, and his numbers came back clean.
Brian: Yeah. I mean, maybe just ev- just little nitpicks, is what I said. I mean- Yeah ... there's just a couple... If you want me to pick at something, I
Robin Joy: will. A million girls would die for that business? Is that what you're trying to say?
Brian: Exactly. And, and let me just at a high level tell you about his business, okay?
Robin Joy: All right.
Brian: Now, [00:03:00] he's just shy of $14,000 a month in revenue.
Robin Joy: Okay. That's pretty good.
Brian: But he has over $2,000 a month of net profit.
Robin Joy: That's great.
Brian: Right? So his average sales price- What
Robin Joy: other business gives you that? How long has he been in business?
Brian: Uh, a year.
Robin Joy: A y- a year?
Brian: Yeah, a year.
Robin Joy: That's impressive.
Brian: Yeah. So, um, he, he, his, his sales price is a little low, which is why it's only, you know- Okay
a little less than 14,000. So that was one thing I did push on
Robin Joy: him. So he did it without a whole lot of capital- Right. ... it sounds like, too. Without a whole lot of investment to start
Brian: with. Absolutely. I, he kept it low risk,
Robin Joy: right? That's exciting. Yeah. That is great.
Brian: We've talked about this before. You can absolutely find product, like, for less than $5 that you can sell.
And I remember I was quite s- surprised w- the first time I did an analysis on our books to find out that our average sales price was $15.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: And it was in no small part because we were selling a lot of grocery items-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm ...
Brian: in single or, or double packs, [00:04:00] and food generally is cheap, right?
Robin Joy: Yeah. Yeah, compared.
Yeah. Comparatively speaking.
Brian: Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, I, I shouldn't have been surprised. And, uh, and then I, after I've sort of did the analysis, I wasn't. But still, um, this particular client is not necessarily, not necessarily selling a lot of food.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: Right? There are a lot of other products that you could get.
I mean, just search Walmart for how many products that are less than five bucks. Yeah. You are gonna find a ton of them, right? And think about the old standbys, Dollar General-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm ...
Brian: Family Dollar- Mm-hmm ... Dollar Tree.
Robin Joy: Oh, a lot of the craft supplies and, uh, things
Brian: like
Robin Joy: that
Brian: are- Michael's, Hobby Lobby.
Robin Joy: Yeah,
Brian: yeah.
Um, yeah. There's all-
Robin Joy: To- tons of stuff- Mm-hmm ... if you look.
Brian: Yeah. So anyway, yeah, this was basically the cleanest numbers I'd ever seen, right? Which we're gonna talk about that and unpack it in this episode. Okay. Ready, you ready to dive in?
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: So, uh, one thing, uh, I wanna get out there really quickly is I typically am, and I have a, a couple of [00:05:00] talk tracks around this-
Robin Joy: Okay
Brian: which is back when I started, um, there was, like, this myth that the whole game was to, uh, find products that you could buy, uh, and sell at a 3x your cost.
Robin Joy: Uh-huh.
Brian: So what that meant is for, like if I bought a product for $1, I'd be selling it for $3.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: And why three? Because Amazon takes a third right off the top.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: Okay? And then you put a, the other third to replace your cost of goods, and the rest of it is your profit.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay? And that assumes 100% ROI.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay? Now, um, this, uh, what I find most of the time-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm ...
Brian: okay? Uh, well, this guy, hi- hi- his multiplier was 3.29.
Robin Joy: Is that more like normal?
Brian: No, no, no. Okay.
It is way above normal, right?
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: So w- normal, it, what I usually see is more like 1.8, 1.85.
Robin Joy: Oh, okay. So this is-
Brian: And I'm- ...
Robin Joy: really good in, in
Brian: that way ... it's so good. Yeah. Okay. And I'm nudging [00:06:00] people toward, um- Uh, toward two, two and a quarter, 2.5.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: Right? Um, so for, you know, if it costs $10, you're selling it for, uh, $20.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: $25.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Right? That's what we're shooting for. And, and I, I personally, I like 2.5 as my starting point- Mm-hmm ... when I can get it.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: You can't always get it, right?
Robin Joy: Right.
Brian: And so, um, I was, uh, I, I, I usually tell people, like, well, you know, that's, that's from like 2015. We're not in the same space right now, right?
Robin Joy: That, that's true. And, and the, the ways the fees work- Mm-hmm ... and the inbound shipping and everything is very, very different than it was at that time.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: But-
Brian: Yeah ...
Robin Joy: for that target, the new target that you use, he's way past that, right?
Brian: Yeah, yeah. A- and he was running, like get this, like 17%, um, gross margin and 56% gross ROI.
Okay?
Robin Joy: That's amazing.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: On average for his whole book.
Brian: Yep.
Robin Joy: I love it. I love it.
Brian: And then- [00:07:00] 50% net ROI after overhead. 50% net ROI. Wow. Really good, right? Yeah. The only place that I would normally see numbers that look this good is in private label.
Robin Joy: Yeah. Yeah, then you might. So what are the yellow flags? What, what are the things that we still have to be cautious about in this?
Brian: Well, there were three of them. Okay. Um, and like I said, every one of them was pretty nitpicky.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Right? Okay.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Um, and a lot of them, them are based on optimums-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm ...
Brian: right? Which is so hard to meet the optimum.
Robin Joy: Like the perfect book of business- Yeah ... would have, yeah.
Brian: Yeah. Um, one was the FBA fee. Okay. I felt like his FBA fee was still a little bit high, and-
Robin Joy: Okay
Brian: and, uh, he could mix in-
Robin Joy: Just shave it a little ...
Brian: some more box filler to help bring that down.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay. Um, he did have some, uh, storage costs at five cents on average, and, and the ideal says four cents, so-
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Yeah ... it's a penny.
Robin Joy: That's, that's hard to- Right ... argue over.
Brian: Um, and then- The
Robin Joy: guy's been in business a year.
I'm, I'm way more- Yeah ... than [00:08:00] impressed.
Brian: And then refunds. And, and we all- Yeah ... face refunds. Yeah. But the goal is to, you know, minimize the refunds to the maximum extent. Mm-hmm. And you're always gonna have some of that. Minimize to the maximum? Is that what
Robin Joy: you- Well, yeah. Mini- Min to the max. Um-
Brian: The
Robin Joy: maximum minimum.
Brian: Uh, yeah, 'cause, you know, the words are just- Did
Robin Joy: I throw you off there? ... coming out. Yeah. I'm not thinking about it and things. Did I throw you off a little there?
Brian: Right. Yeah. Um, so obviously we just, h- how do you improve your, your refunds? You know, make sure your sourcing is correct. You're not sending in the wrong products.
Yeah. You're not sending in products that get a lot of re- that have high refund rates.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: You know, things like that.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: So just, just the fundamentals, which honestly-
Robin Joy: And Keepa even has a little tag that you can tag low refund, um, or low return.
Brian: Low return,
Robin Joy: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to, or you can get high returns too.
Brian: Or you can get high returns.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Some people- And there's another, there's another thing- ... thrive
Robin Joy: in that space ...
Brian: in Keepa that you can do to b- to push that number, um, which is the review, [00:09:00] average review count.
Robin Joy: Uh-huh.
Brian: So, um, if you look for, like, the rating, I should say.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Uh, uh, rating, so four stars and up.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Right? Anything that's less than four stars, typically clients aren't, uh, thrilled with.
Robin Joy: Yeah. And- That's interesting, uh, reason to do that- Mm-hmm ... because I've al- I've always stuck with, and I still do, for people who are new, don't overthink this. You know, get, get what you can get. Your n- cast your net wide right now.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: But as you're thinking through it, um, I usually tell people, "Don't worry about the ratings and reviews, and if, if you don't have a book of business or you're still building foundationally-
Brian: Mm-hmm ...
Robin Joy: don't worry about this." Uh, there, there are l- lot of things to get into your book first, and then shave it down. So as this person did- These are
Brian: fine-tuning metrics-
Robin Joy: Yeah
Brian: right?
Robin Joy: Yes.
Brian: Like, we're not gonna spend time on fine-tuning things up front.
Robin Joy: Yeah. So most of the people assume that the point of diagnostic is to find the problem.
Brian: [00:10:00] Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: What do you do when the honest answer is there is no problem?
Brian: So that's where the conversation actually turned to a whole different- Yeah
in, in a whole different direction, right?
Robin Joy: Okay, so where'd you go?
Brian: And so, um, then we start talking about,
Robin Joy: okay- You're like, "Okay, I don't have any problems- ... to solve you with. Thank you. Have a good night."
Brian: No, I ask him. Well- I'm like, you know, "So is this how much money you wanna make?" And he's like, "No, I wanna make more."
Okay, then let's talk about, um, expanding your business.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Now, there are two ways you can go with that. You can grow or you can scale.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: I like to distinguish between the two.
Robin Joy: All right. Tell me what's the difference.
Brian: Growing is something that you can usually, like, double your efforts, right? Yeah.
Double your efforts, double your spend, double your- Double down ... blah, blah,
Robin Joy: blah. Put your nose- Right ... to the grindstone.
Brian: Right. Right. Get it
Robin Joy: up.
Brian: Um- Yeah ... and, and it comes from you actually doing a lot more of what you are already doing. Yeah. Right? Ch-ksht. Uh, yeah. Do more. Yeah.
Robin Joy: Do more.
Brian: Right.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Um, [00:11:00] scaling though is more...
And so the growing is like a 2X thing. Yeah.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Scaling I look at like a 10X. Okay. Okay. This is the, this is the, what... We're going to scale. We're going to grow the business by a lot, not just- I
Robin Joy: think I would agree- ... double ... with that.
Brian: Yeah. Okay?
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: So, but here's the part that, where I usually lose people when I talk about scaling.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay. Scaling is usually gonna cost some of that net 50% ROI.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: And you're gonna give some of that up, but what you are gaining back is time, and then a business where you become the owner and not the day-to-day operator.
Robin Joy: Okay. So most sellers here give up margin-
Brian: Yep ...
Robin Joy: and they're like, "Ugh, I'm, I'm done.
I'm- Yeah ... I'm not listening anymore."
Brian: Uh-huh. Right.
Robin Joy: So why is that the wrong reflex?
Brian: Well, you know, it's a great question because, um, in this case, and in most people's cases, when you're facing this particular challenge, the margin itself, or the ROI itself, was [00:12:00] never really the constraint.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: The constraint-
Robin Joy: He's got good ROI.
Exactly. Nobody can argue with that.
Brian: Yeah. I mean, it's rarely... I told him, and I tell everybody, I've done this over 50 times. There are only two people that weren't making money at the ASIN level. Mm-hmm. Okay. I mean, all the times I've done this. Um, and it may be more than that, 'cause, uh, now people are, have, have access to this tool, and, uh, a- and I don't know what all that data looks like, but-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm
Brian: um, so usually you're making money at the ASIN level.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: And so it's not that margin or profit was the constraint, it's the m- it's the amount of dollars that are running through that calculation. Okay?
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: So what we can do is we can create more, uh, investment or return dollars or margin dollars overall-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm
Brian: even though we may be giving up a percentage.
Robin Joy: So on each ASIN, we may give up a little bit.
Brian: Yes. But- But
Robin Joy: we can- ... we can do so much more that [00:13:00] the dollars grow-
Brian: So let's say this ...
Robin Joy: exponentially.
Brian: Yeah. Just a real quick back of the napkin, uh- Okay ... math, 'cause I know we don't like to do math on camera.
Robin Joy: No math on camera.
Okay. All right.
Brian: So if I'm-
Robin Joy: Put on your seatbelt if you're driving ...
Brian: if I'm netting 50% ROI-
Robin Joy: Yes ...
Brian: on my, whatever my monthly, uh, spend is-
Robin Joy: Yes
Brian: And I drop that to 35% net ROI- ... but I can do 10 times more of it.
Robin Joy: Oh.
Brian: How many... Which dollar amount is bigger at the end of the month,
Robin Joy: right? Are you gonna do the math?
Brian: No, I'm not gonna do the math.
It's, it's obvious, right?
Robin Joy: You do the math.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Because if we say it, it'll... out loud, it'll be wrong. But it's obviously more. Oh. It's clearly-
Brian: It, it, it's clearly more, right? ...
Robin Joy: clearly more dollars. Yeah. And do we want... What do we want? More dollars.
Brian: So-
Robin Joy: Right?
Brian: Yeah. So what you do then is take that dollar, those dollars that you're, uh, that you're doing wh- at whatever level, at your current level or, uh, at a growth level or at a scaling level, [00:14:00] and then start applying, uh, another concept that I like to talk about, which is your turn rate mathematics to it.
How many times a year- More math. I know, more math. How many times a year- I'm getting nervous ... can you turn your money?
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Okay? It's like you buy a CD, you can turn it ideally, or, you know, maybe the most frequently, I don't know, let's say one time a year.
Robin Joy: Sorry, um, I was thinking of music CD and not like it, it doesn't...
Uh, never mind.
Brian: Yeah. Not the same. You, you don't have to turn those.
Robin Joy: You don't have to turn those. That, that's the whole idea, right? Yeah. Okay. A, a CD, a savings- Yeah ... uh-
Brian: Yeah, like a savings account. Like your savings CD. Like, oh- Yeah ... here's my money and the, and the bank is like, "
Robin Joy: Okay." Certificate of deposit- That's right
I believe that's called. The bank
Brian: will say- Okay ... "We'll give you this much money, uh, in interest," and they usually give you more the longer you leave it with them.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay? But it's so small. So small.
Robin Joy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brian: Right?
Robin Joy: A few
Brian: cents. You're like, "Oh, I can get 2%, 3%, 4%," whatever. Right. Um, compared to what you can do in this business.
E- even in this case before we scale up, at [00:15:00] 50% return on investment,
Robin Joy: okay- You can't get a CD for that ...
Brian: how many times a year can we do that?
Robin Joy: Ah.
Brian: Okay, now I know- Plus ... a larger operation-
Robin Joy: Okay ...
Brian: shout out to Matt Hassler, who just crossed- ... like the, uh, uh, eight figure mark-
Robin Joy: Yeah. Talk about impressive ...
Brian: in annual revenue.
Yeah, yeah.
Robin Joy: Impressive.
Brian: And you have to be turning your money a lot to make that happen.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: He's got a 77-day cash cycle. So from the day it leaves his bank to purchase to the day it comes back into his bank account, 77 days.
Robin Joy: You know, if there are any investors, uh, angel investors or-
Brian: Uh-huh ...
Robin Joy: um, people who put in money, they're going, "Um, can I have this guy's phone number, please?"
No kidding, right? Because this- Yeah ... simply does not happen.
Brian: And at that number of days, he's turning his money five times a year.
Robin Joy: Five times a year.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: So this person that we're, we were talking [00:16:00] about-
Brian: Mm-hmm ...
Robin Joy: he's been i- in one year, he's got a 50% ROI. Mm-hmm. If he can turn that fi- oh, my goodness. Yeah,
Brian: right?
Robin Joy: I can't even-
Brian: So five turns at 50% ROI is a return that you simply cannot get anywhere else, right?
Robin Joy: Right.
Brian: His numbers already work at that rate, and most people's do, even at 30%, right?
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: It turns out that he's the constraint, though, in his own business- Yeah ... which is exactly where- We see that a lot
Robin Joy: too
Brian: this always ends, right?
Robin Joy: We see that a lot too.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Okay. So he's getting some time back, right?
Brian: Yes.
Robin Joy: And where is that time going?
Brian: Well, this is, um, uh, currently where the, what we hypothesized, what we put out there was, why don't you outsource your prep and ship? 'Cause we were talking about how much time does he spend doing all these things, and he said, "Look, the- the- the bottom line for me right now is I'm not actually finding that many new ASINs because I'm just so busy replenishing my existing ones."
Over 300, by the way. Over 300 replenishable ASINs in a year, okay? Um, which meant he- he- That's- He, he did a lot of testing.
Robin Joy: Yes.
Brian: He's done a [00:17:00] lot of testing in those 12 months too. You have to
Robin Joy: do a lot of testing to get- Right ... that many
Brian: prep. In order to uncover that, yep. So, um, prep, so that prep and ship was costing him about eight hours a week.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: So if he can get those eight hours a week back, then he can start focusing on adding, g- really changing his business as opposed to prepping and shipping.
Robin Joy: Right.
Brian: Okay?
Robin Joy: Right. Okay. So, but we gotta, we gotta make sure we're on target here for accurate thinking.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: Is prep and ship really the right first thing to outsource?
Brian: It was either that or sourcing and, and I'm, it's not that I'm not in favor of sourcing. I mean, or, or the two most obvious options- Yeah ... are those two things. Mm-hmm. But h- i- and theoretically could make sense, like, or well, the most obvious one is he doesn't have time to source, so outsource it. Sourcing is the lowest quality work that you typically are gonna get back from somebody-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm
Brian: uh, as a, as an outsourced contractor, unless they are [00:18:00] trained exa- Again, how much do they know about you and your process?
Robin Joy: Right.
Brian: Right?
Robin Joy: Same thing.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Right. If AI is doing your sourcing for you, he needs to know exactly what your pro- what the way you would do it, and you have to have it in a system that you can hand off.
If you're making a deci- if you're making a, a different decision every time you look at an ASIN-
Brian: Mm-hmm ...
Robin Joy: you cannot hand that off. They're just gonna come back to you for exceptions every time anyway, so. A-
Brian: and I wasn't suggesting you use AI. I'm just saying- No, I- ... any person. Right. Right? But yeah, it's a good example.
Yeah. Good use case, right? So-
Robin Joy: Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that either. A whole bunch of people, "So how do you use AI in a source?"
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: There-
Brian: So-
Robin Joy: Actually, there are ways that he, he can help, for sure ...
Brian: so let me start talking about how do we do this, because his average sales price is pretty low.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: His profit per item is pretty low, too, just because of his average buy cost- Mm-hmm
is so stinkin' low, right? So we're trying to figure out how do we do this, because it could really hurt him if he went the tr- traditional route-
Robin Joy: Yeah ...
Brian: um, which is to hire a prep center and [00:19:00] pay by the piece.
Robin Joy: And there are some serious things that you have to consider when you do that.
Brian: Yeah. Um, like $1.50 a unit-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm
Brian: against his current $2.15 a unit of profit, that, that hurts. Now, I'm not saying that you can't scale your way out of that. Yeah,
Robin Joy: right.
Brian: But that is the biggest chunk that's gonna hit, like, that first month. You're gonna go, "Oh, my gosh. I don't have anything left to go buy inventory with," right? Mm-hmm. Like, there's no profits I can put back into the business.
So on the other hand, if we pay someone by the hour to do this, it's taken him eight hours, okay? Mm-hmm. Now, I d- in all fairness, I was like, it's gonna take your new, uh, the person you hire to do this longer than eight hours the first few times- Right ... because they're not as good as you, right?
Robin Joy: Right.
Brian: Um, and so, and the other thing is you need to spend some time training them, and be there for them- Mm-hmm
and then it's a gradual handoff- Mm-hmm ... you know, for them. And then so plan, plan on three to four weeks to get that where it needs to be, and then you can be fully out, and that person can run the whole thing. Yeah. And maybe it doesn't take that long, uh, especially if it's someone who's been watching you for a [00:20:00] long time.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Okay.
Robin Joy: Yeah, I like it.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: So, uh, not necessarily the only place, it just seemed like the most logical place that we could outsource. It's
Robin Joy: not gonna be the same place for everybody.
Brian: Correct.
Robin Joy: Right?
Brian: Yes. Yeah. I don't, I don't think it will be. It'll be, uh, it'll be in different places. I mean, there's a whole...
Like, a lot of people have an admin problem.
Robin Joy: Mm.
Brian: And so they need to outsource their admin because they just get so wrapped up in customer issues and listing p- problems and stuff like that, so.
Robin Joy: Yeah. Absolutely. And, and those are easier things to hand off because there are, you know, triggers that you can-
Brian: Mm-hmm
Robin Joy: teach.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: So this is one of the places that, um, I'm gonna go off script just a little bit here. Sure. Go ahead.
Brian: We haven't done that yet today.
Robin Joy: Yeah. This is one of the places that, um... Now I just lost it.
Brian: Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: So he was gonna do prep and ship
Brian: and- He was hire by the hour, having someone come into his house, prep and ship.
Robin Joy: Oh, so his, his, [00:21:00] uh, average sale price is low.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: And so when we first start working with people, you know, your average sales price is gonna be low, your average ROI is gonna be low, and so, so what we can do is start moving your book of business. Once you build a foundation, which he definitely has a nice foundation, move that book of business to the right- Mm-hmm
so he can increase. And we've done this two or three times in our business.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Has gone back and said, "Okay, we're not gonna test anything new that doesn't have potential to be at least the top 20% of our book." Yeah. And build it up.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: And then go 20%, the top 20% again. So this is, this is what we're talking about when we say this-
Brian: I, and you know, most people are trying to get from 1.85 to 2.5- Yeah
i- in that process. He's already at 3.29. Yeah,
Robin Joy: yeah.
Brian: So I'm like, okay, he's already pretty optimized- Superstar ... from, from that perspective.
Robin Joy: Yeah. Really.
Brian: So now it's just a, it's a, it's, we need more of that.
Robin Joy: Yeah. So he's saying that his business account is [00:22:00] growing. Uh-huh. And so he's having a hard time taking anything out of it.
Brian: Yes.
Robin Joy: Right? That's right. Both, both of these things are true.
Brian: Well, he, he's just been super cautious, right? Yeah. He's like, so yeah, I- Which
Robin Joy: is great, 'cause we want you to keep your risk low ...
Brian: he's like, "My business accounts is growing," which it should be at $2,000 a month profit. Um, he's, he's reinvesting at least a portion of that back into the business.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: And this was the best case scenario, because I'm like, this is what is going to- We can work with
Robin Joy: this. ...
Brian: allow you to do other things.
Robin Joy: Yes.
Brian: You can diversify into other strategies. Okay. You can diversify into other platforms. You can do, you know, if you're making $2,000 a month, um, take $1,000 and put it back into your business's growth.
Take the other $1,000 and start building a wholesale channel.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Right?
Robin Joy: Yes.
Brian: Take the other $1,000 and start building your, a Walmart platform.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Right? There are a lot of options for you when you get to this stage. Now, obviously he wants more than 2,000, [00:23:00] so he's, he, he's gonna scale that up- Sure ... before he probably starts doing any of this.
Robin Joy: Right. But I think what's coming, what's coming to the surface here is that, you know, being frugal- Mm-hmm ... and keeping your risk low-
Brian: Mm-hmm ...
Robin Joy: is, is a really good idea. Mm-hmm. But there are two kind of versions of that, right? Yep. One of them creates a moat that protects you, and the other one looks like a cage.
Brian: It totally- Right? ... feels like a cage too. Right?
Robin Joy: You're hitting the ceiling of, right?
Brian: Yes. And unless he makes some changes, he's in that box. Yeah. That's as big as he's gonna get, right?
Robin Joy: Both of these things look exactly the same. Right up until they don't.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Right?
Brian: Yeah. But once the business is not only funding itself, but then producing profit, that question gets flipped on its head, right?
Mm-hmm. It gets turned upside down, as you like to say. Mm-hmm. Right? And it stops going from can I afford to hire help, and becomes can I afford to keep being the bottleneck in my own business?
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: Right? And-
Robin Joy: Can I afford not to hire help?
Brian: Can you afford not to hire? That's right. And there is actually a middle path here- Yeah[00:24:00]
that a lot of people miss, okay? 'Cause you don't have to choose between reinvesting everything and necessarily taking everything back out. Mm-hmm. I kinda already said it. But take $1,000 a month and put that towards a new channel, put the other $1,000 back into your business, and now you start to diversify your business.
And it is, I know you like to, to call this out all the time, it's funded from your business, so now you're not taking money out of your own pocket to figure something- Right ... something new, right?
Robin Joy: You're taking money that you've created.
Brian: You created,
Robin Joy: yeah. This is a different kind of risk- Mm-hmm ... than he's feeling like he's, he's taking.
And I, I wanna say here too that you, when... If you outsource your pack and ship-
Brian: Mm-hmm ...
Robin Joy: it doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Brian: Uh, true. Yeah.
Robin Joy: Like, we have always kept a certain amount in-house, and outsource the rest, and I know some people who that's their family time. Like, they prep and ship with their kids, and that's how they spend time with their kids.
I know one person that I'm working with, that's when she spends time, excuse [00:25:00] me, with her husband.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: Nobody's taking that away.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: But th- there's a point where all you can do is all you can do, and the rest has to go somewhere or it doesn't exist.
Brian: Yep.
Robin Joy: So just wanna point out, it doesn't have to be all or nothing in these situations.
Brian: And in this example, we were talking about having someone come into his home- Mm-hmm ... or, you know, his workspace, and prep and ship those items.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: And he could even just get them to come in and package everything up, even if they don't make- Mm-hmm ... the shipment, right? This... And, and-
Robin Joy: Split up the tasks ... and,
Brian: and get six hours back.
Robin Joy: Yes.
Brian: Right? Um- Yeah ... it, it doesn't have to be a whole thing.
Robin Joy: You can ease into it. Yeah.
Brian: You've got creativity. It is your business. And, and what creates opportunity for you is that creativity.
Robin Joy: So I'm not hearing a right and wrong way to do this.
Brian: Not at
Robin Joy: all. I'm hearing this is your business- Mm-hmm ... and you get to decide what works for you-
Brian: Right
Robin Joy: in your business.
Brian: Yeah. Right.
Robin Joy: I love that.
Brian: So,
Robin Joy: he's not measuring the risk of standing still. That in itself is a risk, right? That's right. That,
Brian: that was the default [00:26:00] why, by, by not spending anything. Of course. Yeah.
Robin Joy: Yeah. That was like- Yeah ... or spending very
Brian: little He needed permission. Yeah.
Robin Joy: Yeah. Mo- Yeah.
Brian: Exactly ... and
Robin Joy: most people do. Like, "Is this the right move?
'Cause it feels a little off to me."
Brian: Now, here's, here's something else- Coach ... that's pretty interesting.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Um, he told me that the numbers part of his business is not his strong suit. And I was like, "Could have fooled me."
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Right?
Robin Joy: But we see this a lot, too. People who are numbers-oriented-
Brian: Yeah ...
Robin Joy: they so often will overthink it because they do know more things that could happen- Mm-hmm
and they have that experience. And, and, um, sometimes not a numbers person will do very well with the numbers.
Brian: Well, it's 'cause he set himself these guidelines up front. Yeah. And he said, "I'm only gonna source-" Oh ... "within the, these guidelines." And he stayed
Robin Joy: within them. 'Cause he made the decision before he got in the situation.
Brian: And then he didn't, he didn't waffle on that-
Robin Joy: Yeah ...
Brian: when he was looking at something, "Well, but this could be really good." That's
Robin Joy: what it
Brian: takes. "But it doesn't fit my criteria." You know.
Robin Joy: That's exactly what it takes. Yeah. That, [00:27:00] oh, if I could get everybody to make the decision- Mm ... before they get in the situation.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: Stick to the decision when they're in the situation, even if it doesn't, even if you feel like you should do something else.
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: Then you'll end up with something that looks a lot more like this. Kudos to you.
Brian: And you know what? You don't have to be a numbers person because- You- ... if you boil this, this- But
Robin Joy: you've seen us do math on camera.
Brian: This, this business down to its most fundamental level, it is like buy low, sell high.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: That's it.
Robin Joy: Absolutely.
Brian: Right? And y- you need buy low, sell high. Well, you need to know, though, what is coming out of the sales proceeds- Mm-hmm ... in order to maintain the sell high part- Sure ... for your, for your buy cost, and that's what he was really dialed in about.
Robin Joy: But again, to co- to quote Cody Sanchez-
Brian: Mm-hmm.
Robin Joy: Complexity makes you sound smart.
Brian: Uh-huh.
Robin Joy: Simplicity makes you money. That's right. That's the m- part I can remember.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Simplicity makes you money.
Brian: Yeah. Now, o- one last thing here, okay?
Um, this is probably the, the [00:28:00] least glamorous/shiny part of this whole story.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: Um, but what happened was 90 days prior-
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm ...
Brian: okay, we had set four targets.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: And he missed two of them.
Robin Joy: Oh.
Brian: Right? Two-
Robin Joy: Okay ...
Brian: two of the four. His average sales price did increase, but not to the goal that we set.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Um, and his in- his inbound transportation did drop from 50 cents, from 50 cents a unit.
Oh my gosh. One of the best I've seen, right? Yeah. I don't even have 50 cents here.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: To 40 cents a unit.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay. I don't remember what the other two things were. I d- I didn't write it down here- Yeah ... for us to talk about today. But, and his profit per unit went from $1.72 to $2.15.
Robin Joy: Okay.
Brian: Okay
Robin Joy: But he hit all four.
He didn't hit all four.
Brian: Right.
Robin Joy: He hit two of them.
Brian: And he made progress on the other two.
Robin Joy: So the two that he hit-
Brian: Mm-hmm ...
Robin Joy: compounded enough-
Brian: Yes ...
Robin Joy: to cover the rest.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: And [00:29:00] that's kind of the permission that most people n- need.
Brian: Exactly.
Robin Joy: You don't even... I mean, you can even fail and get it right if you have a plan, and you understand where you're going with this.
Brian: This reminds me of what, you know, I'd rather shoot for the stars than hit the moon.
Robin Joy: I like to say I'd rather shoot for the moon and hit the side of the barn- Okay ... than sh- sh- shoot for the side of the barn and hit the mud puddle.
Brian: Right. Pick, pick... Either one works, right? So I was trying to think about how do, how do we tie this, make it super relatable in everyday life?
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: Imagine this. You take your car into the shop for standard maintenance.
Robin Joy: Mm-hmm.
Brian: And the guy comes out, you're expecting a bill. Yeah. And the guy comes out, and he goes, "Man, your car's in great shape. Everything looks, uh, you know, tip-top. No- Mm-hmm ... no charge. Man, good job on keeping that car up." Right?
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: And you're like, "Okay. Uh, thanks, I guess." But it's still the same old Chevette. Yeah. Like, can you give it, can you, can it... It didn't turn into
Robin Joy: anything. Can you, can you make it, can you make it a Mercedes? [00:30:00] Right,
Brian: right, right. It, it... And that's what he's working on now is- Yeah ... upgrading. I'm not calling his business a Chevette.
No. I was just using a, a, a cheap, old car as an example.
Robin Joy: Yeah.
Brian: But yeah.
Robin Joy: Yeah. He's getting some, some recovered seats and some- He- Yeah ...
Brian: right, right.
Robin Joy: Right. Because all of the innards of the car are working well. He did that first.
Brian: Yeah.
Robin Joy: Right?
Brian: That's right.
Robin Joy: Awesome.
All right, Brian, do you have a quote for us today? I do have a quote for us today. Um, I have a quote for us every time. I know, you're shocked, right? I love it. This, this quote comes to us from Michael Gerber, author of The E-Myth and The E-Myth Revisited, and I'm gonna paraphrase.
Brian: Okay. Okay? It goes something like this. If your business depends on you, then you don't own a business. What you have is a job. Mm-hmm. And, and that is what is going to be the difference between you having a job, an additional side job if you still have a day job, um, and then being an operator and owning a business.
Robin Joy: [00:31:00] Yeah. And I, and I just wanna point out that that doesn't mean it's not going to be a job for a while. Absolutely. Until you can scale, that part is a job- Yeah ... and you gotta accept that. Yeah. But this lands differently when the- Mm-hmm ... numbers are good than- Yes ... when they're not. 100%. Nobody argues with this guy when the business is losing money.
"Yep, that's what I need to do." Mm-hmm. But this client is at 49.8%. Net ROI. Net ROI, and the sentence is still true about him, even though he's making that. The business still depends on him. Him, yep. He's still the only one who can do the prep- Mm-hmm ... do the sourcing, make the call. That's right. That's right. The judgment calls.
Brian: Which is the whole reason that we do that diagnostic, right? Um, be- a- and, and this is in this, in this case, why it came back so clean. Mm-hmm. Right? And the conversation got harder, actually, for him instead of easier, 'cause these are the tougher decisions that you're making. Mm-hmm. It's not about, "Should I buy this ASIN, or how much should I restock?"
It's about, [00:32:00] "How am I going to scale my business?" You get to be a lot more strategic. Yeah. I agree. I agree. So anyway, um, when you run your numbers, and they're actually coming back clean- Mm-hmm ... and you realize that the ceiling is really not your margin- ... but it's your calendar- Mm-hmm ... you know what solves that?
Robin Joy: Test more ASINs. Test more ASINs. Let's go test more ASINs. More. Talk to you soon, everybody. Have a good week. See you later.