Still Driving, honest conversations about the cars, people, and ideas that make driving matter. With automotive industry insider Chanu Mapleton and accomplished driver and enthusiast Blair Smith, joined by the people shaping the automotive world. Here are Chanu and Blair. Welcome back to Still Driving, Shinoo Mapleton. How are you, buddy? Blair Smith. I'm good. How are you, sir? Good. This is a little more fun because we actually know that we have a podcast live and published. You know, the last few we've done, we assumed we were gonna get to this point, but now we're actually here. So, Yes, indeed it's, it's feeling more real with Still Driving. So- something that has been a lot of fun, and we're excited to see where it goes. The, the, the show today, Shinoo, we've got a loaded agenda. This is on the, on the doorstep of Monterey Car Week. We're gonna get into some of that later in this pod. But obviously, what we did in cars, some fun stuff on my end. Se- segment two is automotive news. Per usual, there's a lot of that happening. We're gonna get into a couple of fun auction results. I did my best and was successful at keeping Porsche and BMW out of that. So if that's the only reason you're here, you can go ahead and turn us off now. But- No, come on, man. We've got some BMW- Oh, yeah, yeah and Porsche content, too, I think. Ne- ne- never mind. Don't turn us off. And then we- we've got some fun, deeper dive into this i- into another topic that, that I'm interested in, you're less so, something coming out of Ford. And then a cool listener question that you said you might piss some people off with. So I'm super excited to see what you have to say there. But before we dive in, we had fun with our mystery car or road segment last time, and you've got a mystery road. Indeed. Let's see how this is gonna go. Yep. T- yeah. I don't, I'm not sure I know my roads, and I have no clue. You didn't give me a heads-up what road we're talking about. No, I didn't. So, yes, indeed. Today, like, I think that's what we're gonna do is we're gonna alternate between roads and cars. Last week was the debut with cars. This week it's gonna be a mystery road. Okay. So we're gonna describe this one, and I'm gonna start with a fairly easy driving road here that people know about. So, but I'm not gonna give it up until the end of the, of the pod. And so maybe I'll drop a hint, you know, halfway through the pod, okay? Re- remind me to- to drop a hint, okay? Okay. So anyhow, this road, it's in the southeastern United States, okay? It's approximately 11 miles long. It's a public two-lane highway. It runs through pretty heavily forested mountain terrain. There's no stoplights, intersections, and essentially no driveways along the whole section that we're really talking about. And I've driven this road a few times, and it's fantastic. So- We will give this up later. I'm gonna drop a hint halfway through the pod, but stay, stay tuned, guys. You know, we'll, we'll- It- we'll tell you what road this is. Is this a famous road that some people say is overrated and there's better roads all around it, Shinoo? You know, I'm not gonna give up anything more. I think I gave up too much already by the descriptions. Okay. We'll, we'll, we'll drop a hint halfway through this pod, and then we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll give it up at the end. Perfect. Well, I've got M3 dilemmas, Shinoo. You know, I'm coming up on two years with my E46 M3. It, I've got it pictured up here behind me. It's a really rad car. The guy I bought it from put a lot of money into it. He he made it kind of a CSL clone with a CSL air box in the tune, and the- The, the wheels actual authentic CSL wheels. Yep, yep. But you can't sort- That's a dead giveaway, right? Yeah. Yeah, you can't source those anymore either. But you know, I've owned three of these cars. I'm thinking about eventually what comes next. Now I got the track car and the Elise, the track canyon car. So I've really had an itch. I've talked about it many times, how much I love air-cooled 911s. Blair, you're supp- it's supposed to be the seven-year itch, not the two-year itch, okay? Let's see. No, my, mine's like the 18-month itch. You, you got another five years, okay? You just need to suck it up, all right? Ex- exactly. Well, then I go do stuff like this. Fortunately, I've been married 21 years, so the seven-year itch did not apply to my marriage, but- Good, good. But- We're talking cars here, my friend. Yeah. We're talking about cars. Car- cars. Many cars, one wife. Yes. So I drove a couple of air-cooled cars. I wanted to just get back behind the wheel and say, "Hey, I'm crazy. I just had one for three years." Longest I had kept any of my fun cars, Shinoo, was that '85 Carrera. Mm-hmm. So I drove a 964 this past week. It was set up perfectly with the right mods that I like. They all need an exhaust on them. That had coilovers. It was just, it had Bluetooth. It was set up so well. And then I had maybe the best test drive of my life. That this guy lives up in the mountains here by us, and he had this long hood that I genuinely have been curious about, and thought, "It's a decently priced car. Maybe I'll go buy this thing." So it's the one pictured behind me. Yeah, it's cool. We had this... I've told you a little about this guy. We're gonna see if we can get him on the podcast, 'cause he's got a, he's, he's got a very fascinating story to tell. And a lot of people know of this guy. I didn't, but he's got a big presence online. Anyways, he let me take this car, Shinoo, and he lives right by a twisty road. And he's like, "Just take it. Have fun." He's got a bunch of air-cooled cars in his gar- in his shed out behind his house. So I, I had the most magical drive in a 1970 911T coupe, four-speed. And man, what, what a bundle of joy this car was. 2,200 pounds, Shinoo, so we're getting into, like, Miata, Lotus Elise re- realm- Mm-hmm with this car, and yet with the dynamics of the rear engine 911, it just was, it was so mechanically sorted, not so cosmetically sorted, which is why I think this probably isn't the one for me. But man, th- these things are awesome. I've, I've certainly got it under my skin. I'm gonna try to resist like hell, Shinoo, buying another 911, you know, in, in, in short order. You getting a booth at Works Reunion and putting me right in the middle of this right now at this stage- It might be the kiss of death, yes probably not, it may not be healthy for me, actually. So yeah, if you're at Works Reunion, W- Shinoo's got a booth there. I'm gonna be with him. Come by and say hi. But yeah, it's, I do love these old 911s. To me, I drive the new ones, even all the GT cars, and I think those are super cool, but then I get in the old ones and I start craving That, th- you know, them, to own them, have them in my garage. And it would be a good alt to the Elise, which is more of the focus hardcore driving. This is the cruiser that can do some fun, you know, h- chuck it around a canyon road every now and then, but just cruise around town. It's a great way to do it. So that- Yeah that's where my head space has been at. I d- I wish I could hit stop. I'm at least gonna try to not do anything before I see you next week, so you can slap some sense into me and tell me to relax. Well, you're gonna lose your mind next week because Car Week is just chock-full of nonstop sweet cars, and- I can't wait what an insane experience. And, you know, I've been going to it for so long now, over two decades, and it's just incredible, you know? And I don't go every year, but boy, it's just, just really, really e- you know. So this week is, you know, certainly we've got a, a bunch of things going on. We're, we're, we're having this little preview of a racing, you know, indie movie that we helped out with tomorrow at the shop. Oh, oh, sweet. So, yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. We got a bunch of people coming over. We're gonna- Do you watch that outside? You put up a screen outside or inside? Yeah. Where do you do it? Yeah, exactly. We're, we're putting up a screen in front of our shop and projecting it on there. Cool. The director's gonna be there, a couple of actors. They're gonna show some behind-the-scenes footage. And, anyhow, it's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a bunch of our cars on display. We got a taco truck, and it's just gonna be, you know, just a fun, fun event. But you know, obviously there's a bunch of, like, car stuff that I was doing this week, too. In fact, I was putting some miles onto a 964. We had rebuilt the eng- or had the engine rebuilt, got that into the car. As we were doing that, there's always these little things. "Ah, let's replace that, let's replace this. You know, that one looks worn." And then getting, sourcing some of the parts, you know, always takes a little longer. But the other thing is, You know, our 996, I ran that thing out of fuel before because the, our f- the gas gauge doesn't work. And so we had a new ta- fuel tank sender unit in and, and so that's being swapped out now so I can get up to Monterey with this car and not have a fuel issue like I did p- previously. So anyhow, what was the other thing I had going this week? I, I met with catering. We had a really good meeting. They're gonna be up in Monterey. They should be joining us again at Other Brother Beer, you know, next Friday night, you know, the 14th, at our little gathering there. So any of our fine listeners if you're up in the Seaside, Monterey area, we're gonna be at Other Brother Beer Friday night from 6:00 PM PM onwards. And so- Sweet yeah. So yeah, it's, it's some, some good stuff. And, and the other thing is I had lunch with a, a gentleman, Mr. Boris Said, and he, he is a, you know, pretty large BMW dealer. And he's had a good preview of the upcoming BMWs, and he's very, very excited and very, very impressed. So he- Wow he, he g- he gave some real positive, positive you know, let's just say hints that that the cars are, are pretty incredible that are, that are- Sweet in the pipeline. So that's cool. Is, is he a car guy, or has he become jaded by s- making this his living? No, he's still a car guy, man. I mean, he's still a car guy. Yeah, absolutely is. And, you know, he raced for 40 years y- you know? And the guy's, you know, w- we're gonna get him on as a guest here. You know, he's got this really cool project that's coming up, which I'll, I'll break, you know, maybe in our automotive news section here today. And, and so he's got some super exciting things happening here that I think w- we need to get him on board and, and kind of talk with him, too, so. Yeah. All right. What do you got in your backdrop there? Oh, well, you, you tell us about this, Shinoo. Th- well, this is Ford has just revealed or leaking or whatever that the four-door S650 Mustang... See, that, that's a better picture you have behind you. The S650 Mustang is, is being designed and planned to be stretched and made a four-door sedan using largely, what, what I understand is to keep costs contained, they're largely using the existing chassis and powertrain setups and as much as they can retain from the current Mustang to create a four-door including the engines. It's rumored to have a four-cylinder turbo or a will, as well as a V8 with a manual gearbox. So, Shinu, when we talked about this a little bit, and we're... Well, we're gonna dig more into this car, right? We are. We are. You know- So- Remember, the, the, the Camaro was discontinued, you know, a couple years back, right? Or a year or two ago. And, and it's coming back as a four-door. So, that's probably prompting Ford as well. But yeah, let's, let's dig a bit deeper into that in a, in a, in a later segment today, because I think there's a lot of stuff to unpack with this whole idea of adding two more doors to what has traditionally been a two-door car for its entire existence, you know? So, yes, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll need to, to discuss that you know, a little bit later. Yeah, 'cause, 'cause we, we've got some strong opinions about this. Yeah. We may not totally see it eye to eye, so yeah, we're, we're gonna put a pin in this and come back to it in, in, in just a bit Absolutely. So the, the other bit of news that I want to mention is there is a new, you know, and they've been working on this for a little while, for, for quite some time, and, and a new race- country club racetrack in Elsinore, okay? And it's called the Elsinore Ring, and Tilke Design has been hired to develop this, this project, and it's up on their website, and it's looks very, very incredible. About 3.2 miles long, about 22 turns, three different configurations. They're talking about FIA Grade 2 level track. So okay, look, you can't do a Formula 1 race there, but, you know, what that really means is it's gonna be built to a, a pretty high safety standard, you know? And for, for most of us gentleman racers who aren't professionals, you know, that's not a bad thing. So anyhow, what's cool is it's basically 20 miles up the road from me, you know? Well, I was gonna say, we talking about Lake Elsinore? A re- Lake Elsinore, man. And so- Wow yeah, it's at the other end of Ortega Highway, which is, you know, the... When you go west on it, you're in- Yep Orange County. Yeah. So you can only imagine, I mean, this would be the, the closest track, country club track in Southern California when it comes to, to, to, to fruition. And so it's looking really, really good. V- very, very, you know, viable. You know, they're doing a bunch of environmental studies now. And, you know, you know, supposedly, hopefully they'll be moving dirt next year sometime. Wouldn't this change the game down there, Shinoo? Yeah, I mean, it... look, listen, there's so many of these racetracks around the w- the the country and even around the world that are turning into country clubs, and it, it just feels like the future. You know, cars have got- getting too fast. You know, the traffic is getting too thick. You know, we got so much congestion. We have so much, you know, police monitoring that- frankly enjoying some, some of these modern sports cars. You know, look, last week, or no, it wasn't that l- two weeks ago, we, we mentioned you can buy a new C8 Stingray for $75,000 that will do 200 miles an hour. Crazy. Right? We're, we're, you know, like, that is insane, right? And so take it to a track where you can really see what it can do. And so I, I feel like the, the country club track is gonna become really the future place for, for those of us who love this hobby to really have, have the fun that we want to properly have in a safe manner. And so that's why I feel like this location, it's... I mean, it can't miss. It, this has got, this is gonna be a success. And- Well, well- Yeah yeah, that's, that's what I mean, the location-wise. It's, it's insanely good seems like all the tracks out there are out in the middle of nowhere, from Willow Springs to, what is it, Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow. Are they all, like... I mean. Yeah, so, so Chuckwalla is the furthest, okay? And that one is certainly a long ways away. What's a bit closer is the Thermal Club. Yeah But that's still a long ways, you know? Yeah. So Willow is, is pretty convenient for people that live in Los Angeles or north of Los Angeles. Okay. You know, Willow's great, and I, and I think it, it, it ought to do pretty well for that reason. In fact, I was just out there earlier this week. And so, you know, I, I think that for people that are south of LA, you know, whether you're in Orange County or San Diego County or Riverside County, this location is gonna be unmatched, you know, as far as convenience, and, you know, the location's just excellent. So yeah, I'm, I'm stoked. It, it's gonna be really, really, you know, a game changer, and I think you're gonna, we're gonna find a lot of people will join this club because of the, of the c- you know, the proximity. You know, the, the ability to just drive there in the morning and not have to go for four to five hours to get to the track, you know, and- I- and have, have some fun, i- you know, and be able to come back and- Well, that's what I was gonna say. Is this gonna affect our resident Spring Mountain member, you know? Like, yours truly. Well- Shinoo. You know, it, it certainly, it certainly is gonna make me think, you know, a little bit more carefully. You know- Yeah Spring Mountain is still, with nine miles of racetrack- Awesome, yeah right, it's kinda hard to argue with. And so, you know, there's a couple other reasons why it makes, you know, some, more sense for me personally as well. I got a brother that lives in Vegas that, that comes out to the track and drives, and my parents are in Vegas. So it's, it's kind of nice. I go out there and I can see those folks. And, and so, but y- you know what, man? It's, it's, it's hard to argue with, you know, a, a, a racetrack that's 20 miles up the r- or 20 minutes up the road, you know? That'll be awesome. Yeah. Yeah moving right along, a- another car announcement that I thought was so cool, Shinoo- Yeah is John Hennessey, the guys down in Texas, right? Right. They they just anno- announced that they are building the new Hennessey Blackbird. Mm-hmm. Well, what makes this car interesting, 'cause when you think of John Hennessy, you think of one thing, speed, horsepower You know, America, crazy. And- Right but what this car is, and they've even said that's not the intent of this car, this car is to go back to simplicity, old school kind of naturally aspirated V8, rear-wheel drive, and a gated six-speed manual with, like, an, a- an intentional absence of flap- like, touchscreens, all the unnecessary buttons and tech, and really designed to be an analog sports car. And I've got a picture up behind me of this, the, the renderings of the interior of this car. Right. And I think while the positioning, first of all, of that gear selector gear shifter is, reminds me of a Carrera GT. Mm-hmm. Kind of the, the, the layout of that thing. But Chinu, it is $2.5 million, so that's the that's the downside to this news. But are you not refreshed by this idea that somebody is saying, "You know what? Lucid Air Sapphire, Model S Plaid, all these other... W- we're done competing along those lines. We're gonna swim upstream a little bit, and instead of being the big horsepower guys, we'll let you go all, all chase that. We're gonna put a manual in a naturally aspirated V8 that makes u- 800 horsepower." Why, why should we not be ultra enthused by this other than, yes, the fact that I can't afford one, never will? But doesn't that say something bigger about where, where the halo cars, once they go, that seems to to set some trends and to influence that below it. Yeah. Li- listen, I think they're, the trickle-down effect, you know, the fact that these guys, I, I think they're u- unveiling this thing at The Quail this year, and, you know, it's, it's going to influence the bigger manufacturers, get them to open their eyes to what some consumers are, are looking for. And, and, you know, look, at $2.5 million, I mean, honestly, I don't know how, where this thing's gonna be homologated. You know, maybe y- you know, I, I don't know. You know, I doubt it's gonna be s- California street legal, but, you know, here's the thing. You know, for specialty cars like this, I don't know that it really matters, you know? I think that what I love is that it is a, a, a, a car that seems to be devoid of all the technology that you find in the modern hypercars. So I'm super sto- stoked to see that. I don't know if I'm a big fan of the exterior of the car. I think the styling is a little bit much. Y- you know, it sounds like it was very much influenced by the, you know, SR-71 Blackbird, you know, from Lockheed, right? Yep. So I, I think maybe there's some, some, some s- things there that, That, you know, like that side air intake, it, it's, you know, it look, I'm, it looks super functional. So I like that, and God knows it's gonna need, it, you know, that's one of the biggest challenges that you find in mid-engine cars, is trying to get enough air to the back. And so, but I think there's maybe some slightly more elegant ways in which to implement that, Yeah than what they've done on this car. But you know what? I'll hold my opinion, you know, until I see the thing, it, you know. But it's, it's- Well- exciting to see this, and you're right, you know, Hennessey was known for big power and fast straight line speed, but then he built his first Venom on a Lotus, right? And so he, he took a bite from that Lotus, that forbidden Lotus fruit. And now, now all of a sudden he's making cars that look like sports cars, and are, you know, will turn left and right, too. So that's cool. Shanoon, the other car that I could not stop thinking about as I was reading this story is none other than your own Drakon Spider- Right which also has the shifter up high- Sure cl- close to the steering wheel like that, and ergonomically, it also happens to be lightweight. Yes, a lot lighter than 3,000 pounds, which is what this is gonna be, but it's an NA V8 with a manual- Mm-hmm gearbox, and- Yeah I mean, power to weight, this is probably a little better still at 800 horse over, w- w- w- pushing 3,000 pounds. Yeah. But yours is 450 horse, let's call it, pushing 2,000 pounds, right? Yeah, 430. About, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, 430 pushing two, 2,000 pounds. Like- We're talking about similar recipe, and we're talking about a lot a lot, lot, lot less money. But I think it's incredibly cool. I hope it's a sign of, you know, more things to come about where the enthusiast market and some of those trendsetters are gonna you know, put their money and their times. Yeah, listen, like, like we talked about before, the ZR1-X has kinda laid waste to this whole, you know, downward spiral or y- you know, that everyone is going into to try to pursue the fastest lap times and the quickest 0-60s. It's just like for $225,000, you can go buy yourself a ZR1-X that will pretty much thump most of these, you know, multi-million dollar cars. And so- Yeah gotta, gotta, gotta focus on the feels, baby. Yeah. And, and I think that's that's what we're seeing. Well, we, we've known it's coming. At some point, there's only so far you can go. What are they gonna do with the C9 ZR1? Yeah. Like, give it another 70 horse? Like- Yeah, yeah does anybody care? Ho- hopefully they're gonna take weight out of it, you know? I mean, that's, that's what I'm hoping for. But- Yeah yeah, you know, listen, we, there are, and for Car Week, there's s- several debuts going on, including that Hennessy. Did you see Lamborghini's the, the s- it's the 60th anniversary of the Miura? I did not see this, actually. Yeah. Such a cool car, man. I love the Miura. And so they're gonna do, like, a Revuelto that is paying homage to the 60th anniversary by mimicking the color schemes of the Miura which are pretty distinctive. So that's gonna be exciting. We should see ton- a bunch of those cars around next weekend. And then, you know, BMW, which is a brand that you and I both, you know, love supposedly, you know, they've got a few con- you know, concepts showing up and one with three pedals Yes. That they do have their concept. I think the Neue Klasse is really going to be front and center. Yep. I know in addition to that, one rumor that we were hearing is that the new M3 Touring is i- is rumored to be making its way to the US i- in the near future. So, you know, the f- one with three pedals, we shall see. I mean, they have said that they intend to keep that going. They've got a couple of cool ex- exhibits. You know, we were just talking to about this before we hit record, Shinoo, and, you know, I've never been to Car Week, so my mind might literally just explode at, you know, k- yeah, at the BMW exhibits. They've got all the the M3s on exhibit with this new M3CS with the Hanschalter, you know, the, the manual transmission. They're gonna be racing all their old M3 race cars Saturday at Laguna Seca. Like, I'm jacked. The fact that they keep talking about a manual gearbox. The M3CS, we know a guy who's getting one of those cars. I'm curious to see what that's gonna be like, and I, you know, I don't know. I was talking about selling my BMW, but if I do, if, it certainly won't be the last one that I own. I'm I'm, I'm living proof that I can't get away for too long. Well, the other little bit of, you know, interesting news that I, that I learned from Boris was that, you know, again, BMW have got a really interesting pipeline. They, they showed all the dealers, you know, their u- upcoming pipeline, and he was thoroughly impressed. He said they had EVs and ice vehicles right next to each other, driving right next, and he says you couldn't tell the difference. They were- Wow you know, just incredible. So he's super, super pumped about what's, what's coming. So I think that, that, that you know, that bodes well for e- enthusiasts like us. I, look, I'm very excited to see this Neue Klasse in, in person. I- that's the first kind of avant-garde styling from BMW that I actually like. And so I'm, I'm, fingers crossed, I'm hoping, you know, seeing it in person. Generally, you know, I, I, I do believe if the car looks good in pictures, it looks better in person. I do believe that sometimes cars don't look so good in pictures, but look a lot better in person. Yeah. In fact, I'll say to you, the Lotus Elise is one of those cars in my mind. You know, it looks better in person than the pictures. But- I agree, yeah yeah. This Neue Klasse, the M3 and the EV version in particular, I'm super excited to see that. I mean, I would love to have an M3 Touring EV in my garage as my daily. That, that would be pretty damn cool. But yeah, I'm, I'm with you, brother. I'm, I'm so excited to see what they're gonna be unveiling there. We're gonna have multiple opportunities, I think, to go see, you know, their cars on display. Whether it be at Laguna Seca or, or elsewhere, you know, they're, they're, they'll have those cars around. So we, we'll, we'll need to get our, our itinerary together to make sure we go check these cars out in person. Here's another plug. Thur- Friday night, Other Brothers Beer. Well, Works Reunion, come to the Innokinetic booth, say hi. Yes. Other Brothers Beer right after, 6:00 PM till close. We'll be h- we'll be hanging out there. We've got a nice guest list coming to join us for some food, drinks. Should be fun. Couple of auctions, Chanu. Mm-hmm. No, I did not get into the Porsche, BMW market this time. I got into the Lotus Emira market, and the reason I did is this car struck me, that I've got behind me. It's a 2024, so it is a first-year Lotus Emira, V6 manual, first edition. Chanu, you cannot, the MSRP of this car is $109,000. It only has 2,400 miles on it. Mm-hmm. It's vi- it's vivid red, which I think is a cool color. They do, like, look like Ferraris in this color, but, but barely broken in. Granted, roughly half the warranty's gone, or I think Lotus only does three years, so at least half, probably two-thirds of it. 2,400 miles, so this thing is barely broken in, unlike the Porsches we talked about. Any wild guesses what this thing traded for on BAT this past week? 109 sticker. Well- 2,000 miles roughly let me guess, 90,000? $83,000. Oh my God. Oh my God. This- That's quite a depreciation the, the, my favorite thing about this segment is I follow this stuff, and Shinoo's like, you know, he's got his head down grinding on 996, you know, flywheels and motors and whatever, and it's like, you know- So always fun to get your reaction. Oh my God. But, like, it's seen. Listen, I, I saw, like, on some social media feed a Emira Turbo, which is the AMG car, that was, or that had been repossessed or something, and it, the they were asking 50 grand for this car with some low miles on it similar to this. And I just thought to myself, "This has gotta be clickbait. There's no way that car..." You know, unless it was salvaged and, you know, it's, there's, it's got some other problem. But $50,000 s- seemed way too low for that car. Yeah. I, I, I forwarded to my, my Lotus Detroit buddy to, to have him look into it, so we'll see. I'll find out what the story is on that car. Well, one of the interesting things about this is, yes, obviously it depreciates, and that feels like really good value. Yeah. But discouragingly, this was bought by a dealer on Bring a Trailer, but they were the high bidder. Hmm. Interestingly, and I think encouragingly, it shows the liquidity of Bring a Trailer. There is a market there. If you need to get rid of your car- Sure a dealer will pick it up at wholesale. You're, you're rarely gonna be caught, even if you go no reserve. The, the dealers, and it is part of the bummer of Bring a Trailer is, like, it's, it was supposed to be enthusiasts trading hands, you know, the, these cool cars. But the plus side of dealers being involved now is you've got your safety net, and you're at least gonna get wholesale for this thing as opposed to going to trade it in. But Shinoo, you're a longtime Lotus guy. We both really like the Emira. Yeah. Really like it. Good car. My buddy's got one. He just modified it a little bit. He's gonna modify it more with you, and it really, like most cars, it really helps bring those things to life. What, why is this? Shinoo, Toyota powertrains, legitimate business at this point. It's a chassis and a platform they know very well. Yeah. Granted, I do think 80, 85 seems to be the floor for Evoras, and it'll probably be that way for Emiras. But it's just a little surprising with that durable powertrain that, that they took such a freaking hit. Yeah, but see, it's more than just the powertrain. You know, there's a long history where the Lotuses generally depreciate pretty aggressively, and then they'll start to creep back up. You know, when they're no longer available or people start to realize, "This is actually a pretty damn good car," it'll start to creep back up. Y- y- you know, we, we, In fact, I f- I should have mentioned in, in the earlier news, we, we had an Emira Turbo in the shop this week that we, we put some Nitrons on it and aligned the car- Oh which improved the steering, so- Sweet if, if you had listened to o- one of our previous pods where I was lamenting that the, the steering on the Turbo wasn't quite as good, right? But coming back to your question, look, I think this is just the nature of Lotus. They, they don't, you know, they depreciate significantly, you know, when they're new, and newer, I should say, within the first five years of, of it being introduced. Yeah. So I think that's just, it's pretty, you know, k- pretty normal. Y- you know, don't buy a Lotus and expect it to appreciate 'cause it likely won't. When y- or when you don't buy a new Lotus, excuse me, you know? Yeah. So yeah. The, this dealer- Well- buying the car at 83, you know, they can refurbish it, they can do a few things to it, and they'll probably sell it for 90, you know- Yeah up to 95, and, and, and it's all good. But it's, yeah- Well- it's a great car. For the money, that's, that's, that's a that's qu- quite, quite a purchase, and- Yeah you, you know, I think that that's probably a reasonable amount of money to be thinking about for a, for a used Emira. Well, it's f- it's funny. I drive these 964 911s for $120,000, and then I get in this Emira that sounds ridiculous with my buddy's exhaust he got from you. Yeah. And it's like, wow, th- this feels like pretty incredible value, you know, relative to the, the crazy Porsche market right now. But- Yeah. Yeah, it is I like 'em. They're, they're fun to drive. Well, the, the next one I've got is are also very interesting to me, Shinoo, because- Mm-hmm th- this car is a, It, it's a Ferrari 360, and this car is originally an F1 car. Okay. So it was an automatic transmission car. Sure. It's silver, not, not the most interesting color. But it was converted to a six-speed. Mm-hmm. So 100 and, or it had 23,000 miles on it, and this market has really been hot. I think we talked about this in the last couple of episodes. The Ferrari market has gone berserk, 355s, 360s, 430s, 458s, crazy what's happened. But interestingly, this car only brought $130,000, Shinu, as a six-speed conversion. And I know the shops are becoming more and more plentiful that can do these conversions. And the reason I bring that up is because the picture now that I have behind me of this red car, 24,000 miles, so virtually the same miles. Mm-hmm. And they're both 1999s. In fact, that silver six-speed conversion was a, well, 23,000. This has 24,000 miles. Shinu, so if the converted car in silver, I get it, this is the classic red over tan Ferrari. If the converted car, all else m- you know, mostly being equal, year, miles, only brought $130,000, I'm gonna make you guess, put you on the spot here again. What would you say a factory six-speed in red over tan with the same miles, same year, brought on Bring a Trailer? 130 was the converted car. Ugh, probably double. Probably double, because it's- $325,000, Shinu Oh my God, almost triple. Jesus, two and a half times. So- Wow m- perhaps the best value in the automotive world right now is to buy one of these F1 gearbox- Yes F36, or 360s or F430s. Mm-hmm. And I think I've heard, don't quote me on this, that it's about $30,000 or something to convert the car. Or go buy somebody's that already, is already converted. I'm not such a snob, and at 24,000 miles, it's not like this is a, a, a showroom 400-mile car that you, nobody can touch. It's just a collector car. These are driver, they, drivers have got 25,000 miles on 'em. Why, why would you not go buy one that's either been converted or go pay 100 grand for an F1, spend 30, convert it, it's gonna bring most of that value back, and have a car you can drive and enjoy? Yeah, listen man, that's exactly what I would do. Y- you know, if, if I really wanted a manual Ferrari, I wouldn't go buy one, you know, when you see that price differential, I would go get the F1s, 'cause those, those have depreciated, and those have got all sorts of issues. And, you know, get into one of those, convert it, and go enjoy the car. I, I, that's, y- you know, that's, that is my, you know, what I'm inclined to do, 'cause, you know, my cars, I'm gonna drive them. I'm gonna take them on trips. I'm gonna rally them. I'm gonna have fun with them. And so- Yeah yeah, I think that's a great idea. And, you know, I need to do a little bit more research into that. One of our clients in fact, we, we have his Evora GT. He he had been mentioning this to me, and he was telling me how it's becoming quite a thing, you know, with Gallardos as well. And, and so it just feels like there is this kind of, again, there's this undercurrent of people who want the manual experience. And with some of these cars, which are really manual gearboxes with these, these automatic kind of systems that are layered in that you can- Actuators, yeah yeah, actuators that you can kinda pull out, and then make some additional changes to, to make it all back to a full manual, you know, box. So it feels like yeah, we'll see more and more of those, because not every Ferrari is, is a trailer queen, you know? Y- yeah, I mean, even in these, you know, we're, we're saying they, they've got miles on them, 24,000 miles. That's less than 1,000 miles a year of its existence, you know? Yeah. So really, you know, is it really, you know, they're not even high miles yet, you know? And but there are people out there enjoying the cars. I would say those are probably the ones to buy and, and rebuild to, to your liking. Well, I think what I would do, and I just watched a video, speaking of E46 M3 CSL, I just watched a great video on YouTube this week of a guy driving a CSL in the Swiss Alps. Mm-hmm. And he was like, "This SMG gearbox," you know, 'cause they were SMG only- Yeah "is kind of fun to use. Like, y- you have to drive it like a manual, lift a little, shift, and then get back into the throttle." Mm-hmm. It would be fun to buy an F1 360, drive it for a little bit, just experience that. I think it'd be fun for, you know, call it six months, and then spend the money to swap it. I- No, no, your, your six months is gonna be about six days or may- l- li- maybe more six hours, and then you're gonna be, "Get me the hell out of this thing." I think we should t- we may have to try it at some point. Yeah. Yeah, I have, and that's six minutes will be enough for me. May be six hours for you, but six minutes, I'll be done. I think I, I would like to, I would like to drive one of these things. But Shinoo, we wanted to do a deeper dive into this four-door Mustang. We, we, we had some differing opinions on this car. And m- maybe this is the time we can we, we can debate a little bit. But tell me- Or sh- or should I give, or sh- or should I give a clue about our mystery road at this point? Yeah, let, let's do it. Okay. Here's, here is- I don't know if we need a clue, unless you're, you're really trying to stump us. This road was not as, that difficult, but I wanted to start off easy, okay? So here's, here's the mystery road update mid-podcast, right? Today's road has 318 curves in those 11 miles, right? So if that doesn't give the whole thing away, you know, I don't know what would. But back, back to the regular programming now. We're on seg- you know, d- discussing the Ford or Mustang and Camaro. Yeah, why did, why did you in particular want to do a deeper dive and, and really hash this car out? Because I, I... Well, t- tell us more about this car. Tell, tell us your thoughts about why, you know, you know, why you're concerned about it or why, why you're less than optimistic about this car. Because, you know, spoiler alert, I think it's pretty awesome Yeah, and I think it's pretty lame. So you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree, because- I know, I- let, let's, let's hash this out. Tell- Yeah, man, listen tell me your thoughts the Mustang and the Camaro are a couple of our, like, iconic pony cars. These cars came with two doors, okay? Because two doors suggests something that's sportier, which is exactly what these cars are about. They're not about practicality. They're really more about being sporty with, with just a hint of practicality, or a dollop, let's just say, you know, of, of practicality. And so for me, the minute you start to, you know, graft in a couple of more doors, you start to have to make some significant compromises, okay? And those compromises are not only in function, but also form, right? And you know that I'm a form follows function kind of guy, okay? Yeah. And so that's my, you know, gripe with this concept, you know? And then we can layer in the whole branding issue that I think is also... You know, it, there, th- this is a travesty, okay? I, I really don't feel you should use these brands, you know, in that manner. And Camaro, we already know it's happening, because they're doing platform sharing with Buicks and, and I think a Chevy too or something, right? Or, well, Chevy Camaro, right? But yeah, the, the- Yeah what is, what, what, what does GM build nowadays? They got, they got, you know, so the, the... Oh, Cadillac. It's gonna be a Cadillac- Yeah Buick, and then I think the Chevy, right? So, you know, platform sharing, I certainly have talked a lot about that, and think that that's still the economic way to produce cars and maybe the way to keep some of the enthusiast cars alive. But I kind of feel like they're doing it with the wrong cars. And so that's, you know, at a high level my, my, my thought on it. Okay. Well, let me, let me tell you why I think this is awesome. Yeah. Did you know it was a sad day in 2018 when Ford discontinued the Fusion, the Taurus, the Fiesta, and the C-Max, okay? Oh, my God, it was a sad day indeed to see- 2018, 2019. And then th- they, they dis- they went basically to this strategy, and w- I remember being shocked about this. I don't know if you did, but Ford was no longer gonna make anything except crossovers, SUVs, trucks- Yes and a Mustang. No- nothing in between. Sedans are dead. Mm-hmm. We grew up in the sedan era. Right. Everybody drove sedans. That was... So I remember thinking, "What the crap? Like, that's it? We can only go SUV?" And so to me, it's like I, I don't- I've hated this migration to just CUV, SUV everything. I mean, I just bought a BMW X5 recently. I, I was about to remind you, my good friend- Yes that what did you just buy for yourself? But, but listen, part of the reason I did that was the options for getting a, a decent sized sedan for a bigger guy that was actually interesting, they're pretty few and far between. So if, if you start, okay, what's, what, what is all that compelling out there? And I'll turn it back over to you here, Shinoo, of were you s- were, were, were you all hacked off in the same way when Porsche announced that they were... It was a little different 'cause it's a ground up different chassis. But coming out with the four-door 911 and said, "Here's the Porsche Panamera." Were you equally as disturbed by that or annoyed by it? No, no, 'cause I didn't view it as a 911. Okay? They had a completely different name. The styling is w- is Porsche-esque, but- Yeah it certainly, they're not using the 911 name, you see? That's my gripe, is they're using the Mustang name, they're using the Camaro name, and I think those are, that's fundamentally sacred ground that you shouldn't go to, to try to sell this, right? It's just like the, the Mach-E, right? Yeah. With the Mustang logos and stuff on it. I think that was a big mistake, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I think they're trying to, to imbue it with some cool factor. You know, a brand, the Mustang brand that is certainly far cooler than, you know, any EV that was out there. And so I, I just feel like th- these are misguided steps. You know, in the case of the Panamera, I think they kind of executed that well, and giving it its own distinct look, you know, from a front end. The rear end is certainly more reminiscent of the sloping rear of a 911, but I think no one will ever confuse the two, and so I don't think it has that watering-down effect on a 911's brand. Whereas, I think a four-door Mustang or a, you know, four-door Camaro is just not gonna... But you know what? Look- So you've, you've, you've also, I think your kids are all out of the house. Mm-hmm. So I'm with you on the Mach-E. That was stupid. It's an electric crossover. What are we doing calling that a Mustang? But what I was looking for before I bought this X5, now here's, here's the caveat. BMW makes great seats, so that was a big part of why I- Sure kinda had to stay European, BMW, Audi. Yeah. But what I would have wanted to do is go look at a CT4-V Blackwing. Okay. CT5-V Blackwing, but that's a $100,000 car. Right. CT4-V Blackwing's a turbocharged six-cylinder, which b- b- by all reports is kind of a soulless, characterless, turbocharged V6. So, okay, and to me, I look at the Mustang. It's already a freaking big car. You get in those things, they're big. And so wh- when, when I'm looking at possible daily driver opportunities, so take the Mustang that's already big, stretch it out a little bit, and now we're not talking about a race car. We're not talking about track canyon. To me, I, I don't really care if they've compromised the Dark Horse just a little bit dynamically. But now suddenly it's like, "Oh, kids, I've got a Coyote V8. I've got a manual gearbox," and they could put the Tremec in here, which feels awesome. And boys, my kids, j- jump in the back and yeah, you may not have the most headroom, but, like, you can get in this car, and I don't have to drive a soulless- Audi A5 or even an S5. I owned my S5 for nine days, and it was the Sportback- with the hatch. I was like, "What, why did I just pay this money for this? This is not interesting." So, like, you know, when I start looking at what is out there for guys who don't want a Model 3, you want an EV for your daily, I'm not to that point yet, part of it's lifestyle and, but if I had less of a commute, I would want V8 even more for my, for my daily driver. But, you know, so I look at something like this as filling a real void. For guys like me who say, "I don't want a Model 3, I don't want an S5," and I think a Mustang with a Tremec that my kids can get back, in, in the backseat somewhat comfortably in- For the next two years? For the next two years. And then they well, then they're gonna be driving themselves, you know? And- Oh, that's true. That's true so, you know, I, to me, it's like if this would've been around, and they're speculating on price. Do I think it's actually only gonna be 50 grand with a V8 and a manual? That's what the article I read said that may be where it starts. No way. I think, I mean, a Dark Horse costs like $80,000. I think this is gonna be 60, 70 by the time it's all said and done, with a Coyote in it. Mm-hmm. But how cool is a Coyote with a Tremec gearbox in a four-door, you know? I don't really care that much about the, the Mustang heritage like I do in a Mustang Mach-E when my alternatives are a $180,000 Panamera and a, which is, you know, basically n- no, you know, well, they're still making the Panamera, but, like, Audi S5, BMW 5 Series, kinda boring, boring, boring, boring. Here's an extended Mustang with a Coyote and a manual. Yes, I wanna go drive that car. Yeah, you know, I'm sure the driving dynamics will be good. I'm not gonna complain about that. For me, you know, my gripe is really the aesthetics, you know, and certainly the brand side of it too. I feel like they're making a, a, a fundamental mistake. Okay, look, the Mustang is not in the same class as a 3 Series BMW, right? Like, this is what we're trying to... We're, we're, we're, we're hoping that this is kind of like an American, you know, M3, right? But it, it really isn't. It's a pony car, right? And, and so for me, I think that the stretching the wheelbase, I think the head room, you know, to get a little bit more, you know, head room for the rear, they're gonna have to raise the roof line. It... So, so just aesthetically, it's gonna be off, man. You know, all these renders- that we see and, like, y- the ones you pulled up. I pulled up a pretty cool one too. They're just not real, man, and they just distort things, and it's easy to make, you know, something look reasonable. Just like all those Luce. You know, "Oh, I'm a designer. I'm gonna fix the Luce." And they throw out these things that look really cool. It's low and sleek and blah, blah, blah, but it completely misses the fact- Yeah that it's got a skateboard battery pack, you know? And that's why the midsection's so thick on that car, right? So anyhow- Well, I, I love- that's really what my, my gripe's gonna be on this thing. But maybe Ford said, "Hey, yeah, you know, we, you know Camaro's coming with a four-door, and we need to, to counter that with our four-door version." And, and, and that's what they're gonna do. Because you know what? There is no accounting for good taste, and most people don't really h- aren't as picky about how a car looks as, you know, nerds like me. Well, listen, we already established that you're not the sympathetic one last week on the pod. When you, when you were crushing the dreams of all 70-year-olds who've saved up- to buy a Porsche Cayman. Now they can't. But I was sad when the Taurus went away, okay? That was an Amer- an American icon. Bring back the- The SH-O? The SH-O was cool. Yeah. Bri- bring back the the American sedans. Shinonu, the other part that's lost in this, before we go to our listener question, is- This is a further sign that all the bull crap we've had to deal with for the last 10 years- Yeah of CUV after CUV that looks like a roller skate, that all looks the same- Right with a, with a lame four-cylinder turbocharge with a mild hybrid. Ask me how I know, 'cause I've owned these, too. I'm bagging on all of us, not just, not just everybody else. But they've taken away so many of the interesting options. So that's where I think, hey, Hennessey's coming out with a simpler analog back to basics hyper car that costs an insane amount. Ford's bringing back potentially a sedan with a manual and a Coyote. Chanu, it's time to get on board, buddy, but I love that you're not. I think that's what keeps this, keeps this interesting. Well, listen, man, I'm certainly on board with analog manual gearboxes, cars that have all the feels, okay? But y- you know, I think there are certain lines I don't wanna cross, and you know- Hey m- you know, the, the aesthetics- Yes, you- guardrails that I've put up for myself are, are a bit restrictive. Let's just put it that way. I'm, I, I'm definitely more about, "Hey, I, I, I want the motor and the gearbox, and I'll worry- Yeah about how it looks later." Sure. But you know what, what, we're still driving, Chanu. It's the ethos of this. You're gonna be still driving your Hummer EV or, your, your Mo- your Model 3. I'm gonna come barreling by you- in a Coyote with a manual with my kids in the back. So, you know, we, And I'm gonna say, "What in the hell is that weird ass looking car that just went by me? Oh my God, I'm about to gouge my eyes out." It was so horrific. Oh, well, let's let's wait to see what the designers can come up with 'cause at this point it is still somewhat speculative and, and watch, they're gonna say, "In order to make this work, it's gotta be 100 grand like the CT5-V Blackwing," and I'll think, "Okay, I'm sorry I got excited about this 'cause MotorTrend or whoever it was- threw out a $50,000 number, and I believed it might be 60, 65, and it's gonna be 80. So, w- we shall see when, when this becomes a little more, more real. I think that's the way it's gonna land, unfortunately. Well, you told me before the pod you might piss some people off, Chanu, 'cause our listener question today comes from Rocco. And I, and I love any chance we can piss some people off. I think we should do it. So I'm excited to hear- what you have to say. Rocco wrote us a question. It said, "What's a car you desperately want to love but just can't?" So I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn this over to you. All right. And a- and I wanna hear this and why. Well, when, when you rattled off that question, it took me a couple hot seconds to think about this. And, and, you know, it came to me pretty quickly, right? And, and so w- you know, the '90s- Were an important era for, for the cars that we love. And we kind of feel like that was kind of, they were laying the foundation for what was gonna, to come later, right? Which was really about- I hope you say what I think you're, where you're going, 'cause I might totally agree, but, but keep going. Okay. All right. So, you know, there were several Japanese sports cars that I actually liked. But there was one that became very popular. I think they were all, you know, honestly popular, but I think one kind of even had this level of cult following that I just could not get with, okay? And, and listen, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in the reverse order here, okay? From the car that I like the most to the one that I like the least, okay? So- Does this start with R? Well, listen. Let, let's, let's... The, the car of the four Japanese cars of this era that I, you know, liked, okay? And one that I didn't like, okay? And so NSX, I like that car. Okay. Okay? RX-7. I actually should've mentioned RX-7 first. I actually prefer the RX-7 to the NSX, and mostly for the styling, okay? Then the 300ZX, which we actually had a guy come by with one. He's driving to Monterey. He drove it all the way from Atlanta, stopped in at the shop and, and is, is headed to Monterey. We'll see him next Friday at our other beer- Oh, sweet other brother beer party. Yeah. Sweet. Okay. Sh- Shinoo, there's two more cars here. Are there two more? And, and now I'm itching on which one you're, you're gonna say, 'cause one I like and one I strongly dislike. So tell us, t- t- t- t- Tell you there's two more- So I'm thinking R32, 34, 5- Oh, well, but that car didn't come to the States. That, you can't, you can't- Skyline. Okay, okay. But- You can't... That car didn't come to the States, okay? So you're talking about the t- the Supra. The Supra. The, the- Oh '90s generation Supra, right? Wait, wait, wait, let's see. That was third or fourth generation. I, I, I... It, it, it's not the, the, the... It was the one that came, like, in the early '90s to, like, the end or the early naughts, you know? And to me, that car is revered by so many people. The Fast and Furious crowd love that car, right? And it was, you know, they, people have tuned 'em up to make ridiculous power. But man, that thing always looked bloated to me. It just didn't look svelte. It didn't look like it was nimble. It didn't look like a car that wanted to actually, you know, drive like a sports car. So I could just not get over the aesthetics of the car. And, and so that's the car out of my choice that I could, you know, even though technically I know it was a cool car, I just couldn't g- I just could not come to love that car Yeah, well, I w- I was hoping you were gonna say GTR, 'cause that's where my mind first went. No. Because I am not a GTR guy. Really? R32 to R35, I don't know why it is, I'm just... I don't hate them, but I've just never really loved them, which is what this question was. I think t- I think Supras are pretty rad, but I agree, they look way better modified, and that's always kinda... There's certain cars you gotta put, you gotta stance them, you gotta put aftermarket wheels on them, and when you do that, it, it does water something down. When you see a stock Supra now, it's kinda like, "Eh." But I'm a fan. I would love to drive a Supra Turbo, for sure. Yeah. So, oh, what? That's your car? So, the, the- That's what you chose? The car that I've wanted to love, and I need to get- Come on, man I need to get behind the wheel of this car, Shenu. Because I will say, especially, they've got f- this frozen green and purple and matte colors. Look at that. It's the BMW Z4 M40i, the new one, and they came out- Yes with the... It's the Supra, or the BMW, Toyota Supra w- in a convertible form, which is BMW, the Z4. He- here's the deal, I've thought many times, we've talked about it, I'm always car shopping. It's one of my reluctances to do this podcast, like, I've gotta y- you know, maybe let pe- people peek into my messed up brain here. But- I've thought about a Z4 M40i many, many, many times. Like, hey, in place of, of an Emira, in place of a Cayman Boxster, in place of a E46 M3, something I can just get in, convertible, dr- drive the wheels off of it. B58 engine, I hear the manual's pretty decent. Short wheelbase, which I do think might be its saving grace if I drove one, the fact that it has a pretty short wheelbase, actually. But, like, I want to love it enough to go spend my money on it. I wanna say, "You know what? Forget all this other crap. Forget these old 911s, forget these old Lotuses, forget the Emira. I'm going to buy the, the, the modern BMW sports car." And I just have a feeling I would think it was nice to drive for about a day or two, and then think, "Eh, I can't, I c- I can't really love it." So it's not like I don't like 'em. I really want to drive it. I think I would like it, but I gotta love it. Of... And now these things with the manual, they've, they've held value big time. They're... You gotta spend, like, 75, 80K to get one. Yeah. So listen, I've driven the Supra, the new Supra, and it's really good. I like that Z4, okay? I thought it looked good. I love the styling of it. I haven't driven one, but you know, look, I think it's, it was really the last sports car that BMW has, has produced, and hopefully they're gonna come back with something interesting, you know, in the future. But, Yeah. Well- Yeah, I definitely have to disagree with you, my friend. I, I actually like that car. I, I have no qualms- Well, that wasn't the question, Shinoo. Yes. The, the, the question was, what's a car you just can't, you desperately want to love, but you just can't? I know. And that is, I want to love this car. So I took it very literally. I also like it, and I wanna drive one, and I think Supras are cool. The, you know, the new Supra and the old Supra. But I want to love it, which would then re- you know, help me support this modern BMW cause. I desperately want to love it, but I just, I don't. I just l- I like it, and maybe I'd love it if I drove it. But I doubt it. I doubt I would love it enough to spend the dough. Well- Well, mystery road time. Yes, indeed. So listen, we, we, i- let's, let's give up the answer, right? So, We talked about 11 miles, we talked about two lanes, we talked about no intersections, we talked about, you know, an absurd, like, thir- a hun- 318 curves, right? So today's mystery road is US 129 from Tennessee, North Carolina border, that is also known as the Tail of the Dragon. Oh, yeah. So- I think- incredible road You've been on it twice But the roads around it are more incredible, frankly. Well, that, that's what I... When I said that earlier, I've heard a lot of people say it is incredible, but it's so busy, and, like, the roads around it are spectacular. They are. They're better. What, what, what, what's it like? I mean, were you there? I, you, there's pictures of my Elise of you on that, on the Tail of the Dragon. It's incredible. I, like, there's this guy, Josh Vandegrift, who runs these tours through for different car, car clubs, and, and he's got a Lotus Elise, and he just flies through those roads. He's a local man, and it's incredible. The Tail itself is like running an autocross. It's turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, turn, turn. You're just, you're just constantly working the wheel. You know, it's fun initially, but then after a while, it's like, ah. You know, the, when, especially after you drive all the other roads that are around there. And on his tours, which are incredible, you know, if you're in a car club, find out when they go to the Tail of the Dragon and join in, 'cause it's worth it. He gives you a wonderful, wonderful, you know, tour of all those one, excellent roads around there. And so I think, you know, the Tail is certainly a destination for a lot of people. I- you know, I'm a motorcyclist, but I've said this before, I would not ride on that road, 'cause there's too many idiots that cross the double yellow. You know, they, they cook a corner, and then they go into the- Yeah opposing lane, and if you're on a bike, there's nowhere to go. So I think it's c- it's a bit of a dangerous road for motorcycles, in my opinion. So anyhow, Very cool cool road. I would like to do it one day. Fr- but it look, it looks awesome, and I do think that Elise that you built has to be the i- the ideal car, Oh, it was great, man. We, well, there was, the, the, the time I brought that car there, there was 55 of us, okay? All Lotuses. Emiras, Elises, Exiges, Evoras, modified, unmodified. Five of us, including, you know, which included Josh, the leader, broke away from the other 50. We were significantly faster, right? It was Josh in an Elise, me in the 111 RS, and then three Evoras, okay? Oh. And we were flying, man. I mean, you know, it's always easier to, to follow than it is to lead, but fortunately- Yeah you know, he knew, he knows the road, and so we're just getting after it. And, you know, it w- it was incredible. I was driving with some really, really, really good drivers. I could not go any faster comfortably. You know, I was trying to keep it in reserve, but I- Wow there's always a limit that I have when I drive on the road. I try to stay at eight-tenths or no faster than that, but we were flying, man. It was incredible. Just incredible. Well, I've seen the pictures. You made one fatal flaw, Chanu. You didn't take the roof off like you never did. So I, I, I wanna go have that same experience, but let me pull that roof off and, you know- Tru- tr- trust me- Be one with the, the- You are so focused. You are so focused at that pace on the road in front of you, the, and the car in front of you, and, and not making mistakes that, you know, all the scenery- Nothing else matters is not a part of the program. That's awesome. Well, stilldriving.com, go there. If you think you're gonna be in Monterey, go to our Instagram, Still Driving. Absolutely. And Still Driving Podcast on Instagram. Go there, shoot us a message. We've got plenty of, of room. We've got a nice little group shaping up. I cannot wait for Monterey Car Week, and maybe we'll, we'll s- pod from there. Who knows? But until then, Chanu, it was really fun. Thanks as always. Lots of fun, Blair. Thank you, sir. See ya. Talk to you later.