The Old Dawg Leadership Podcast
The Old Dawg Leadership Podcast is where experienced builders share the lessons, leadership, and real-world stories that shaped their careers. Built by those who do. Shared for those who will.
The Old Dawg Leadership Podcast
Old Dawg Leadership Podcast - Kick Off Episode - Ep 01
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What is leadership, and what is it supposed to produce?
In the very first episode of the Old Dawg Leadership Podcast, Adam Hoots sits down with construction veterans James Gable and Mike Chiles to explore one of the most important questions in the industry. Through stories from the field, hard-earned lessons, and practical leadership principles, they discuss why true leadership isn't about titles or authority. It's about influence, communication, and developing the next generation of leaders. From the "best finisher becomes foreman" dilemma to the 87/13 principle and the idea that leadership is caught more than it's taught, this conversation lays the foundation for everything the Old Dawg community stands for.
Whether you're leading a crew, managing projects, or just beginning your career in construction, this kickoff episode offers practical wisdom you can put to work immediately. Join the conversation and discover why the best leaders don't create followers. They create more leaders.
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Welcome to the Old Dog Leadership Podcast. Real leaders with real lessons learned. Direct, practical, and no full cheeto. Built by those who do, shared for those who will.
SPEAKER_01What a way to kick off the new podcast. Yes. We are coming live, baby. We are old dog leadership podcasts, and what a way to kick it off. So we're going to make this thing happen uh one way or another.
SPEAKER_02And we are like, I am so fired up for this because for so long it has been Hoots on the ground, Hoots this, the lean builder that, like, and it's so much deeper and bigger than Hoots or the Lean Builder tools or things that are out there. I am excited to kick off this old dog leadership podcast with two of my OG old dogs, Mr. James Gable, Mr. Mike Childs. What are we doing here, guys? What's going on?
SPEAKER_00Hello, old dog nation. Dude, I'm super excited for this podcast to kick off. It's gonna be awesome.
SPEAKER_02Look, lean is so much bigger than like sticky notes and that pool planning stuff. And I think too often times we get put into this like little corner in this box. And you know, I've been known as that sticky note, sharpie pool planning guy for a long, long time, and and that comes to rest like right here today. And I'm excited to do this alongside you, James. Uh, you've been around like since day one, my man. And to kick this thing off, me and Mike have been flirting with a lot of podcasts over the last few months, and you've got your own podcast, James. Like, help me understand why you are here, why are you kicking this thing off with us? What does that look like, Mr. Gable?
SPEAKER_03Right into it, aren't you? Dive right into it. I'm in this because this fills the exact need. This is something that this are the industry that I love. 39 years, by the way. I got just the clock is ticking. Where I've been in this industry from right out of high school. I started because my dad said, Hey, come work with me, then you can go back to school. That was 39 years ago. And I've been in this industry for this long. And as I've seen all of the curves from the old school guys to the old school, my school, old school guys, to what is coming into it now. And what we're seeing is such a gap of knowledge and this knowledge gap, this knowledge share. But I also see a really hungry generation that wants to learn, that wants to know from us. And we only have such a short period of time left to share that knowledge so they don't have to make all the mistakes that we made. That's what brings me here. And that's why the old dogs is what it is, is and it exists, and it is just deep in my soul. What we are doing is changing the industry in a way that it's not being done in any other way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we are builders, building builders, right? We say that a lot. It's written right here. We're built for built by those who do, for and we're shared for those who will. And Mike, I'm pretty sure you came up with that one, man. Introduce yourself, kick us off, Mike. Why are you here? What are you thinking?
SPEAKER_00I'm Mike Charles and I'm a project director at J E Dunn Construction. So I've been in construction, I've been a Jade for over 20 years. And in that, I came the when the 08-09 time frame was coming around, and it was tough to have a job then. And initially going into college, I'm I'm single mom family. I didn't have the hey, come work with me thing. I actually had a mom that was in healthcare. And so I was flirting with psychology, I was flirting with orthopedics, and I was flirting with physical therapy. And then I had a uh cousin, a grandpa of cousins that was an iron worker for years. And one day he just talked to me about construction management. And he's hey, he's like, Hey, have you ever thought about it? And that was just that conversation got me curious about what is that, because I hadn't heard about it before. So then I started looking at it, getting into doing some labor work and construction, doing lawn irrigation systems, some landscaping, did some labor work for a residential builder. And what I loved about it was not only just being active, but also the physical results that you got to see. And that's what rather than me thinking about sitting behind a desk, just working on some paperwork or sitting in the same office all the time, you get to go check new things out and get on new adventures on job sites, and you get to go see results. And that's what motivated me to get into that. So I actually went to college for construction management, and a lot of that stemmed from that one conversation. And then from there, got into construction companies, ended up interning with Dunn and stayed with Dunn because I was around Jay Dunn being in Kansas City. I was around him my whole life because this was our headquarters. From then, though, I got man dove right in, and that was a tough time in the industry. And I probably could have got laid off a couple of years into it if I wouldn't have decided to travel with Jay Dunn. So I was on the road doing different projects, and my family went with me, and we moved around different places for on the road for 10 years, and then finally got to come back home, and now I'm working close to home. You know, you just kind of got thrown right into the job sites. I felt that grind, right? I felt that moving around. It's hard on families traveling around a lot, and it's hard on families meeting the deadlines and you got to work delayed when you're getting yelled out of work. If you're working on some tough jobs with some tough owners, you got a lot of yelling and screaming going on, and a lot of people not on the same page. That that grind is tough and takes a lot out of you. And so I too, like James, wanted like there's a better way to do this, right? And so I got introduced to lean construction just with, like you said, man, it was the sticky notes on the wall, right? It was pole planning, and that's where I started getting into lean and just finding different ways to the biggest thing to me there was the conversations, right? The you had everybody together, you throw something visual up on the wall, and people start to talk about it, and you can see something and start digesting something. So, from there, obviously, in that journey, I've learned a lot more tools and tricks there. But really, what came down to it I aged and just started managing more people is I love building the people more than necessarily the buildings we leave behind. Man, I love the relationships that were made on the road, and I love the the extended family I now have with people that I'll just talk to the rest of my life. And I if I wasn't on the road and I wasn't in the grind and I wasn't in that trauma-bonded time frame with those guys, I wouldn't be in that position to have those relationships. And it's all about relationships at the end of the day. My brother introduced me to Mr. Hoots after he took a training, training from Hoots that my company hired him for. And I didn't even get to go to the training, but he was like, You got to talk to this guy. So I called him up, and dude, it was like, I don't know, love at first. Like, you had me at hello, is one of those moments. But like from then on, it's been this old dog journey, and it's guys, it's only been a year, not even a year, that at LCI basically last year's when we came together throughout the old dog podcast there, recorded in the studio and almost busted down the LCI walls of the studio. Look how far we've come here to where we're on our own podcast right now. We've got stuff offered every week for people in the industry to learn. We got a nationwide connection here, dude. It's awesome, and I'm so excited that that God led me down this journey, weaving it in. And now we have a podcast where we can talk about whenever we want, whenever we want, and it's it's awesome. I'm punt. So whoever we want, to whoever we want.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but Mike, I think what drew me to you the most, man, like our careers are almost identical, right? Like, I did a couple jobs in Florida, and then it was a crash, and it's like, okay, what are you gonna do? Well, traveling was an option, and for the next 12 years, I took my family on the road with me, right? Eight different states building some of the nation's like coolest labs and clean rooms and things. Like, it was just blessed, really, to land in that spot with Whiting Turner at the time, another national organization, and just to be able to travel and learn and be exposed to different buildings all over the country and different people like that's what it is. And I like you, introduced to pool planning, thought that was lean until I failed a few times and realized that it was those conversations, right? It is those people, and and it's so much bigger lean. Again, I come back to that because I find it very interesting. And I commented this on a post not long ago, but somebody was like, Oh, lean is is being selfless, and lean is like found it so interesting that you could take the word lean out and replace it with leadership, and every single one of those sentences still worked and maybe even made it a little bit more clear for people, despite the ambiguity around what leadership truly is. Like, again, fired up to kick this thing off. Like, I've got a question that I it's it's kind of the obvious one that's out there, and we've been kicking it around a little bit already. Gable, I want to just toss this one out to you to kick the feathers off first. But what is leadership in your opinion? Like, what what is leadership and and even like a little bit further, like what is it supposed to produce?
SPEAKER_03Two questions, and those are great questions. Like when you talk about leadership, from my perspective, and I I think it's a pretty good perspective, leadership really is communication, it starts with that, although I put that bent on just about everything. But that's one of the reasons that I fell into love with lean is the idea of it, the principles, the poll planning, all of the concepts start with some form of communication that's outside of just a written text textbook or just in sitting in a classroom. It's so much more visual, it's so much more granular to where we can communicate with people who don't necessarily have degrees in communication. So I love that aspect of lean, which brings it to that point of leadership is truly good leaders really do communicate. You look at any organization, once hit their ceilings that are struggling, they're not communicating the vision they're planning. Starting at the basis of that, leadership is communication. Communication can happen through lean practices, through lean systems. Big believer in putting into place communication systems, which are lean systems. So all of those things tie into it. I forgot your other question because it was so weaved in there so well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what does it produce, right? What is the intended outcome, leadership or great leadership?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so the intended output should be to create other leaders. I feel like if you are a leader, you should be working on building other people's leadership skills. It's if you're on a sailboat, you don't want to be the best sailor on that boat, especially if you're hitting some rough seas. You want everybody on that boat to be as good of a sailor, if not. I personally would be on a boat with a bunch of people who are better sailors than me. And I think that's the outcome of good leadership. And I think that's often challenged in really any organization, construction for sure. And I'll even go back to when I was an apprentice, like you were treated differently, and in some ways, there was a fear from that leadership, from that journeyman that they that I would take their job. So the generation ahead of me didn't give the information out as freely as we do. And I think a lot of it was driven in they would there was fear for job. They don't want that kid who was younger than them, had a stronger back, maybe could work harder. They didn't want them as smart and they weren't giving that information out. And that was not true leadership. So true leadership says I want people that are smarter than me around me so together we can sail that ship through any type of rough water that we've got. I love that.
SPEAKER_02And how you just casually dropped a we to be very clear, right? Like that's leaders in construction, is who you're referring to when you say we are willing to just share that information. Am I right? That's correct. Yeah, I got you. I love how that just rolled off the tongue. Mike, what are your thoughts? Where are you at here?
SPEAKER_00I'm heavily influenced by Mac's story, and I'm gonna say leadership's influence, right? The thing about leadership is the word itself is neutral, man. It could go good, it could go bad, but leadership's influence, and you can influence on a mission, on a path, a line, influence to get better, or you can influence to to destruct, you can influence to go the other way, right? Leadership is simply influence, and I think that's important to know because the person jumping out of college, stepping onto the job site, has influence. And that that person can build up influence, and that person doesn't have to get the title to be the head project manager or the senior project manager to go influence a job site. And how many of us have seen that one toxic, uh, that one toxic person kind of start being a cancer that spreads throughout a whole job site? And again, that's that's a leader, that's a leader influencing others. So so to me, leadership's influence, and I think we have a responsibility to use it correctly and to be good stewards of the influence that we're giving and the platforms that we get to work on. That's why I think it's so important to get with a group like the old dogs, where we can all share lessons together. We can all get better together. But it does take that mindset of understanding that we're never there. We've never arrived. We're always going to be learning. There's always ways to improve. And you're right, like lean grabs a lot of that in principles, but it's kind of like saying the drill builds the deck faster, right? The drill causes less pain in the hand. And it's the person using produces those results, right? But we can't go worship the tool itself. We need to go focus on the people behind it and show people tools, but ultimately that influence doesn't take any tools. You're going to influence one way or another. You get to decide if you're going to get better or not as a leader.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So you said a couple of things there. One, hey, yeah, a drill is better than a hammer, right? Certainly helps our people move faster. We're not using a drill to move faster. We're using a drill because it's better for the people, right? And I don't want to, I don't want to be down on lean too much, right? Because lean is how we discovered one another. That's how we've built our community. I think lean gravitates or grabs the like-minded folks in our business, those people who are open to better ideas, different ideas, new things. I love what you're saying there. Being a Mac story fan as well, I'm gonna take comment on what leadership is a little bit deeper with a little more Mac to it, right? Mac, it's not capability, it's who you are, it's character development. Yeah, like Max Mac says, or John Maxwell, I think, is actually the one that said the character leadership is influence. And then Mac helped us discover that 8713 principle that you freaking taught me and drove home in my head, Mike, and where it's 87% of the reason people follow you is because of who you are, right? If you're gonna have influence then over somebody, or if they're gonna follow you, they're following you because of who you are. So true leadership is who you are. It's becoming, it's who you've been, it's who you know you've been, and who you want to be, and how you're driving towards that. I think it's important to note personal, right? Like that's internal, that's embedded. You might be able to fool some people for a little bit of the time, but you're not gonna be able to fool them for long because I think your character really comes out the way you meet people, the way you treat people, and that'll catch up with you fast. And to bring James's point back into this, right? Who you are is how you're going to communicate, right? If you're a giver, that's gonna be obvious. If you're a taker, a matcher, these things really show themselves very obvious. We again, James, I've heard communication described as hey, there's four types of communication: there's written communication, there's verbal communication, nonverbal communication, and visual communication. And most of the world really speaks in verbal and nonverbal, and sometimes they don't even know it. I think those are still a little bit of on that social side, right? Like those are things that it's this people side of things, like those capabilities are more difficult than the technical capabilities, especially in construction, in my opinion. So, like why is that? Like, I don't understand how that continues to become and is the pressing issue in construction.
SPEAKER_03I just yeah, I've got something on that because it's one thing is we've classified them as soft skills, they're not soft, there's nothing soft about them. In fact, I had somebody just recently is in the same boat as me, which is these are not soft skills. He calls them business skills because these are this should be as much as that tool in your toolbox that you need, that that drill that you were talking about, Mike, or the hammer, or whatever tool it is. It's something that isn't it. I think we've given it a different category. Like, well, if you're a good builder, you can go out and do that, you're fine. You don't need this other skill. It's these are soft, right? They're not soft. And that's there, there are hard. And one of the things, this is like that, this is one of my passions too, and in building our industry is we have we've taken people who are really good at the skills that they do, and and this is a true story. Best finisher on the job. That best finisher on the job, and they suddenly have to bring more people on. So, what do they do? They make him the foreman, and so suddenly he's the foreman. Now the best finisher is no longer finishing anymore. And you now are responsible for 10 to case of my story. There's almost 18 to 20 people that this guy was a foreman over, never foreman before. So he did not have the skills to be a foreman. Now that's its own thing, but as well as communication skills as well, too. Like we tried to create flow through there, couldn't understand flow. So there's there's a deeper story to that whole thing. But the fact is, we do this every single day on our jobs as we put people in positions without with thinking that that's the easy part, right? Communication, leadership, like you were doing the hard part before. So I think we've just have classified it wrong. And I think as we continue, especially as this group, to elevate that concept, that communication, leadership, and being a foreman and all of these things that individuals do better at their job because now their job changed. Like you're no longer the finisher. And not only that, we take the best finisher and don't even give them the skills to teach the next finisher to be another best finisher, which is another skill of its own. So I think it's really been in the classification of it. And so I think we need to change the terminology. I mean, these are these are tools, these are business skills, and when we do that, we can start bringing up the people that have the skills to give the skills away.
SPEAKER_00Man, build up the skills. I like that. You're you know, because that that's something I think our construction industry is. I mean, I think I think we're learning. I think you're starting to see a lot more leadership offerings and teaching, but I I think a lot of people are realizing there's this there's a very big people side to this whole industry, right? And yes, because the buildings being built is the goal, the people that are doing the things that are actually seen and get the building done is viewed as the real hard work. And dude, they are they're grinding, man. They're in, they are outside in the elements. It is tough doing some really hard work, and it's viewed as soft to go sit in an office, right? To go B A C talking and having meetings about money and schedule and stuff while they're out there grinding through the elements, right? So, so there's definitely the I, yeah, uh idea of like hard work versus the soft work, right? But it it is a different, just like the hammer and the drill are different, we're talking about a different set of skills, right? And everybody on a football team has a different position to play, but you need them all to go move the ball down the field and get a touchdown, right? And we need we need those people that can coach, that can connect to people. And and if we're going to do that, just like that foreman who was really good in the trades, and how did he get? He he had reps, right? He was practicing, he had someone teaching him this is a better way as he's grinding through and doing it a hard way. And there is a big intentional development piece on the leadership side. That we're gonna have to start learning how that looks when we go grind through that. So just like to get to the format level, he's got to show a certain skill set. What is that skill set that we need to see to go lead people? Right? Because it's a different set.
SPEAKER_02Man, and and our people out there in the field are succeeding, like despite everything in the system working against them, right? You know, we talk about the bathrooms and the cleanliness factor and those like the the humane place to eat lunches and like just these humanity things that aren't met, yet we're still seeing people succeeding in the field. And uh it makes me think you just dropped football, and I it was turning in my head already, right? Like these trade workers are the offensive and defensive linemen, right? Like they are in the trenches, you know, doing the work that nobody sees, so that the project manager can sneak through the line and score the touchdown, spike the ball, and start hugging everybody, right? And and like to me, um those offensive linemen that go and hand the football to the uh or the running backs that hand that football off to the offensive lineman who gets to spike it. Like, that's what old dogs do, right? Like we might be running through the gap, but we're also acknowledging people on the way through, like, holy cow, I could drive a semi through this. Good job, way to go. Like, as I'm scoring the touchdown, handing the ball back to my offensive linemen who get to spike it, because they don't often get to see that side of it. And so I I love that. I, you know, we keep talking about hammer and screw, and and can't remember where I heard this, but uh, I it was definitely in a book somewhere, right? When when the only tool you know is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right? And so when we do have these different tools, like we're talking about, and we're taught these different skill sets and these hard skills. Shout out Laura Cooley for planting that seed uh in my head. But um, there is nothing easy about these skills, right? And um we're talking about things like when we say leadership and we say soft skills and we say communication, like what are those? Well, like these soft skills are emotional intelligence, realizing when someone's had a bad day before they're able to even say it, right? Recognizing people's hidden needs, things that they might not even know that they need that you can just see based on, hey, they're thirsty because they're sweating or they look flushed or like you know, or hey, are you not feeling well? Like to be able to ask a question that helps somebody else discover their own personal, deeply hidden need, like that's what old dogs do, in my opinion. And I feel like we've built this leadership, but like we've tossed that word a lot around a little bit. I want to toss around the old dog word a little bit now, because that to me, I think can can be taken a bit out of context. If if you're not an old dog or you don't really know an old dog, I think there can be some uh um some nervousness with the word, uh, especially again, you know, just in construction and that sort of thing. I I guess what do you guys think about that word, Mike? What is an old dog to you?
SPEAKER_00Oh man, that I mean there's the there could be a long answer to that, like a full acronym for that. Or there could be uh just just a simple statement of, you know, old dogs are old dogs are are people in our industry, and I don't care, I don't care how old you are, I don't care, you know, your race, I don't care what gender you are, I don't care about all that stuff. And the we have we have people that are hungry to lead here, right? And we have people that are hungry for building up the people side of construction. And when I think of the old dogs, that's what I think of is a focus on the people, building up our people, those relationships are gonna last forever. It's it's eternal. And we have we have a problem there where there's a lot of people on job sites every day that are showing up working hard, but still feel disconnected, right? And they and they don't feel like there's a a good path forward or they're struggling, like they're they're struggling with their family, or they're struggling with finances, or and they and all that comes to work. There's one person, right? And all those people together with all those different journeys, with all those different backgrounds, are looking for um those connections and are looking for that hope. And and I feel like with the old dogs, we we can get together with the group and say, hey, how do we go see the people better? How do we go build up the people better? How do we go teach the people um that there are better ways and that they do have hope in a future and that there is a plan for them? That to me is what the old dogs can do. And that's why I love every time I get on a meeting with the old dogs, like you have intentional people that are there ready to connect with you and they care about you. Even though that I've, you know, I may see one or two times a year people across the country here. Man, when I see them on these calls, like I know they got my back and I know I can call them, and I know if I'm struggling with something, that they're gonna help me not just be accountable, right? Which is important, like we need more accountability, but they're gonna do it with with love and grace. That is so important. And it's a it's a safe spot for everybody to go be vulnerable and get better. And we need more of that on our job sites. And hopefully, as old dogs get together throughout the whole nation and start working on these things together in our pack, hopefully, like we said, leadership's influence, we can start to go see that slowly working on job sites. It's gonna be a grassroots thing, guys. There's no there's no one answer and then everything fixed, like, but hopefully, we can start to see more and more and that of that pack growth where people are like, hey, the people side of construction is real, and the only way, right?
SPEAKER_03I'll jump in on the old dog for me. Like the old dog is the it's it's the individual who is who is now learned a better way to build and wants to share the wisdom, you know. We we've learned it, and so there's but when I've and I and I maybe we have a PR problem in a good way, because when I've used the term old dog to people, they're they'll like turn their heads like like I'm insulting myself, like look, I'm an old dog, right? And so they look at it and like, what does that mean? But what it does, so that's why I think it's a good way in a good way, it gives me an opportunity to say, hey, look, this is as an old dog, you know, I used to build an old way and now we're building a new way, and we're sharing the knowledge. Just that simple statement to people makes them turn, you know, you get the dog head tilt, you know. So an old dog makes a dog head tilt, they tilt the other way when they're like, Oh, oh, that uh that's cool. Like, tell me more about that. So I think that's when we talk old dog, uh, it it has a little bit of a reaction from folks, uh, as they all have perceptions in what it is, right? Like it's too close to dirty dog and has nothing to do with that, but as everything has nothing to do with being old either. Uh, it has nothing to do with that. But if you've done something in an old legacy way and you're doing something a new way, uh, you know, you're an old dog, and we have plenty of old dogs that are not old. Uh, I'm still not the oldest in the group, which I'm pretty proud to say. Um, and I want to keep it that way for a very, very long time.
SPEAKER_00I experience right, experience is a key, and that that's you know, so we're it doesn't matter what age if you've if you've seen enough of the experience to know that hey, I want to get better and I want a better way, then that the old dogs is for you, right? If you're hungry to learn, the old dogs is for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, shout out James Glass, uh, the eldest dog, as we refer to him. But uh I I love that you guys nailed it, man. It's it's not about age, it's not about race or or religion or any of that sort of thing. Although we do find a lot of Christians in the group, and so we take advantage of that where we can. But yeah, it's about like, hey, have you learned construction the hard way? And do you want a better industry moving forward? Then you're likely an old dog if you've picked up some new tricks along the way and you're willing to share them and willing to like help somebody else not get quite the same bumps and bruises that you did while you were growing up uh through the industry. I think that's crucial, that's critical, right? Like dogs are some of the most loyal creatures around. And um, you know, no matter how many times they've been burned, they'll they'll keep coming back and they learn, right? They continue to learn and they'll learn through their entire lives. And um it's it's a very common language to be an old dog in construction, right? And I think a lot of times uh the lean world doesn't recognize the old dog world, um, where it's like, hey, I've been a builder for 30 years and I have been doing things pretty well my whole career. Now you want me to all do this thing called lean. It's like, well, guys, we're really just talking about leadership, right? Like, hey, we're really just talking about, like you said, my conversations with Last Planner System or pool planning, that's really what lean is. It's it's communication, as James said. It's it's being a good leader and sharing, you know, what's in your mind in the easiest way possible for others to understand. So like when I when I think of an old dog, um, you know, I think of Buddy Brumley, uh, my the co-author with uh the old dog Lean Thesaurus, where it's like, hey man, that guy he built for 40 or 50 years, uh, and and I miss that man so so much. He was a great accountability partner, although he would be calling me from his job site on a Saturday morning. So you sometimes you can't take the uh construction out of the old dog, but that's okay. Um, but when I think of buddy, man, it's like, hey, you know, willing to listen, right? Willing to shed a tear with you, willing to call you on a random Wednesday night and have a two or three hour conversation with you on what you experience, like totally into you, and uh the listening, the humble inquiry, the the taking all the blame, getting uh none of the glory, right? Like all the blame, none of the glory. That's an old dog. Somebody who who just tees up that next person for success. Somebody who's uh maybe winding down on their career, maybe not. Maybe they've been burned early and they want to change it fast. And so, I mean, but it's a thankless job, right? Like to be an old dog is um, man, it's it's like you're not recognized, you're one of the offensive linemen, defensive linemen. You don't get that recognition for opening that hole, you know, 10 times larger than it was opened for you. So um, I don't know. Any thoughts or reflections as I pause there?
SPEAKER_00Well, I was a lineman, so I I I understand that piece very well. But uh no, I I yeah, I'm going back to and and James brought this up too with the uh um the people that are trying to prevent uh the same mistakes. And I would say also on that with the old dog, yes, we have tricks and tips and tricks that we've learned that um we would say, hey, there do this so you don't have to go through the pain of learning that we that we had to. But at the same time, there is a big piece of the old dogs where it's like as you're going through the pain that that you've seen, like there, there's also, hey guys, there's life on the other side of that, and there's things that you can learn from that, and there's ways that that's gonna make you better. And just helping people sometimes that are in the storm, um, there honestly, uh there's a lot of stubbornness in old dogs, and a lot of people, you can go tell them a better way to do it, and they'll be like, Yeah, whatever, uh, it's not gonna happen to me. And then it does, right? And well, lo and behold, guess what happened? And the thing is, like, because uh a lot of old dogs have been through that, they can kind of guide them through that storm and help them on that other side too. Just because, you know, just because something went wrong or didn't go as planned, that doesn't mean that the whole the whole process is over, right? We can still adjust and move forward.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I want to add to that, like one thing I because that caught my attention when you were talking, Adam, is that a lot of us have ended up in a group together because we care about the human side of construction, the pe the people. And I think that's the thing that I separates uh when you kind of hit that point when you realize that it truly is about people and developing people and that they're they're the ones that are actually putting the work in. Um, even the organization I'm working with right now, Cobild, uh, before they decided to take on lean practices, they were all about supporting uh people on the human side, grit resiliency. We talk about the zone, we talk about the storm, the swamp. I mean, we talk about these things because they're real. And all of those things are the things that lead us to uh where we're at right now. It's it's so much bigger than just you know the nuts and the bolts that go together and building stuff, but it it is about the people and it's that care for people uh that I think permeates throughout um you know, throughout what we're what we talk about and the people that we hang out with, we're of like mind, not just because we like the sticky notes and the sharpies, right? We're of like mind because we know that hey, we we're like-minded in that we know that this is communicating better to the to the people, it's communicating better to our our teams, and that we're we're kind of all in it together.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So I used to say I live for uh those light bulb moments, right? When you can just like see the light bulb pop up in someone's head. I think I'm gonna change that vernacular now to uh I live for the old dog tilt moment. I I think that's uh yeah, like I never even thought about that, Dr. Gay. Well, that's brilliant. I I love that. Um I I think uh, you know, kind of expanding a little bit on the offensive lineman analogy. And I I could tell by the way, Mike, I just something about you, man. Your presence, baby. Told me you were opening big holes back in the day. Um, but what are we protecting, right? As old dogs, as old dog offensive linemen, we're protecting the people that are coming behind us, right? Like that's what we're protecting. We're clearing the way. But Mike, you said something that that really rung a bell with me because uh we got to be careful with this, right? Because sometimes the growth is in the sting, right? Like sometimes you you need to get hit in order to understand how you're gonna juke or make a move next time, right? Like, yeah, so so we don't want to be the the overly cautious parent as an old dog leader, right? Like, we don't want to take all of the sting out of the or take the adventure away, right? Like they you still gotta show up at the job at five or six and work until five or six, like that. There's still some of that is real, right? Like some of that is and and there's some some pain in that growing. So, where where do you guys see as the the kind of balance between like okay, I'm gonna clear the path for them, but I'm also gonna let them get a little uh snot knocker as we used to call it back in the day.
SPEAKER_00Did we now?
SPEAKER_02That's what we call it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00The grind. I mean, that I think there's a big difference between all the people that uh watch a football game versus the people that are between the lines playing the football game, right? There's a there's a lot of time and dedication in the morning practices and the evening practices and the film watching and the weekends. I mean, you talk about construction being tough on that, dude. Being in the football season, whether you're a coach or a player, man, like you're like you're there's not a day off. There's not a day off at all. It's a grind. And that there's that's that way with a lot of industries, period. I mean, ours, ours isn't ours isn't unique to the fact that people can go give as much or as little to their job as they want to, right? And obviously, if a company is paying you to do something, the more dedication you show to the company and the more that you give to them and sacrifice for them and grind for them, then you'll probably get rewarded in that, right? And that's why it's so important for us as as individuals. And well, when we're when we're looking at our roles, we need to figure out, you know, what's most important in our lives, right? And we need to make sure that we're working on moving forward our goals with our families, with our kids, with you know, with our communities and our jobs, right? There, we all of those have to fit in. And we have to none of those happen without work. And that's where it gets tough, as it's easy, and you know, and again, I agree with you, like uh the the lean world has taught me a ton, and I and I use tools every day. Uh, but we've we've we've kind of taken the word and thrown ever make it a catch-all for everything, right? And and that's what we can't make the tool the catch-all for everything. It is an awesome toolbox, but there is a leadership component to this that's just straight up people. And like you talked about connecting with people, the emotional intelligence side, the the hard stuff is leadership because you have to look at you. And it's really easy to go take a tool like the last planner system and lock in on that and just my mission isn't accomplished unless I can check every box that I'm meeting every step of the last planner system. It's easy to go to job sites and say, you're really good at step one, two, three, you need to work on four, five, six, or you guys are doing four, five, six really well, but you need to work on one, two, three. And it's really easy to go focus on a tool because you can look at some in front of you and you can go, hey, there's a better way to do this and you can get better. But it's really hard to focus on leadership because the leadership, you have to go get a big mirror and you have to look in it, and you got to say, Who am I? And that's uh that's a part that a lot of people don't want to get into because it takes a lot of vulnerability to go say, here's where I'm weak and here's what I need to work on. But it's really easy to go say, oh, this team needs to do step three, four, and five, the last planner. And that's that's where we have to grind through. If you're a lineman, that's where you've got to own like that is my block. I got to go make that block. And if I miss that block, that block impacts somebody else, right? So I got to go own my piece, and you're gonna watch that film, and everyone's gonna see you missed that block. The eye in the sky tells no lie, right? That's what I used to say to us. But but we, you know, with leadership, we can go take a the mental closet, the skeletons in our closets, and go hide that away, and nobody else sees that because you can't see inside of uh the mind, the heart and soul of a person, right? You can only tell by the freaks that come out, right? But then whenever you start to get real on those things, the the wounds that we talk about, Hoots, everybody has wounds. You start to get close to those people's wounds, and woo, they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna attack you, they're gonna protect that wound, right? Because it hurts. Um, and so uh, you know, you say it's not soft skills, it's hard skills. I'd say, yeah, very, very hard, but critical skills because we have to deal with us.
SPEAKER_02You gotta lead your ship before you can experience leadership.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03I love it. We've been on sailboats and ships. 100% agree, Mike. Like you nailed it in regards to that self-awareness. Like that, it all truly does begin. And I really think like you look at a lot of uh old dogs, all of us who did it a different way, now we're doing it a better way. That was that self-awareness of, you know, that what I'm doing isn't working. You know, I need to find a better way to do it. And then to kind of bring that point back right back to what you're asking, uh Adam, was the fact that like how do we how do we teach these skills, but not, you know, but allow them, those who are underneath us, to be able to take the steps to learn it. Like I really did learn some a lot of stuff by falling down, right? But I I also learned a lot by not falling down, watching other people fall down. So that's why I like to share the stuff that I messed up on, but also the things I've I've shared stuff that I've seen other people mess up on to prevent that. And that's where I think as a good leader, you're able to take somebody, and this is where it comes with that self-awareness and that confidence. Like, look, I'm gonna put you out here, and you have to be confident that they're gonna probably mess something up and it's gonna be at a low risk level to where you're you're gonna start developing those skills, but you have to let them do it. You know, it's like sending the field engineer out of the trailer for the first time and go over to, you know, to to the concrete guys and do this task, right? And you know that that guy is probably the worst, most uncomfortable person in the job site, but you're gonna send them over there and experience that and they learn through that experience, but they're not that they're gonna be better for it. So you have to create environments where we can place people. This is a leadership thing, where we can put them in a position where it's low risk and then they're gonna stumble a little bit, they're gonna get some bruises and some bumps, and they're gonna learn from it, but it's in a controlled environment. I think that is the sign of a true good leader. Um Than just throwing somebody out to the wolves. So I think that's important. Having that self-awareness and then also being able to uh allow people, and and we're gonna have to do more of this to go out and and make these experiences, but but keep them from you know falling right off the edge of the cliff or the edge of the boat, as we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we all are. Yeah, and I'm gonna spin off your boat analogy. Well, so I'm gonna I'm gonna elaborate on the boating one a little bit, right? Because um right, the most people think this leadership is like a straight and narrow path. And when we're sailing, right, and I've come to know this from Manny Hoyo, who's like a big time advocate of sailing, also an old dog, by the way, with Scanska in Boston. Shout out, Manny. Um, but so as we're sailing, right? We want to go from A to B, direct point, and we know like this direct point, but we're never actually moving directly on that path, right? We'll kind of venture a little east and then we'll come back, and then we're on the path for a bit, and then we'll come off, and then we're back to it. And so, like the like what I hear us saying in twofold is one, like we personally have this mission, this straight and narrow, but it's not realistic to think that even us three are on this path all the time, right? We're constantly veering in and off and trying to get back. And what's awesome is we have, like you mentioned, a community of people who like to keep us on that path. Because that, like in the end, in old dog, right? We want to make better humans, and in the end, we want to become a better human first. And so I think remembering that piece of it and then how that also um kind of you can you can take and pull pieces and parts of that, and how we interject that into the new generation, it's like, okay, we know the A to B, and we know actually how to stay as close to that line without variation as we can. And so it's like for each individual person as we're going along this capability development route, it's like, okay, you know, Johnny, who's maybe a little bit more aggressive than some others, we might let him get a little bit more of variation off the path because he just needs to beat up a little more before we get back on. But, you know, Jenny, who's a little bit more of a humble kind of patient leader, right? Maybe like the the maybe quick, maybe a little quicker to correct her variation because she doesn't need so many bruises. And I think that's again, it takes a bit of an old dog leader mind to understand people at a deeper level to say, okay, the difference between Ginny and Johnny is two lessons, not six lessons. Or like I don't know, am I landing here? So how far off of course am I right now?
SPEAKER_03I think you veered it right back on, but that's a great point, Adam. I never thought about that in regards to sailing. Is that it isn't necessarily it isn't a straight line, but you're heading to the same uh location, right? You're as long as you hit that destination. I really love that analogy of of because I ideally, I mean, at its roots, is the wind isn't always blowing in the direction that you're you're traveling. So that's why you have to catch catch, you know, cut the edge of the wind one direction, you're gonna make that turn. But as long as you're you know heading towards that right direction, then you're catching the the wind that you need to catch to go in the direction that you're going. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02Mike, how do you do that, best? How do you how do you correct people without demeaning them?
SPEAKER_00Um man, I got you got so many things racing through my head right now, dude. I I can't get off of I'm picturing this giant ship and I'm picturing it veering off course because everyone decided to play a pickup football game right on the deck, and and we got our linemen just building these big holes, and no one's following the ship, and it's very we're like, hey, we got to get back on course over here. And yeah, I'm just I'm trying to put all this together in one picture here. And it's it's it's just blowing my mind. But uh, you know, before we go into the correction of that, the veering itself, um, you know, I think one thing we need to think about, um, a lot of lean that we talk about is in manufacturing, right? We have very repeatable processes, we have uh floors, we have things that are are set, and we get to we get to constantly try to look at how to minimize our variables. And the thing with construction, every time you get together and you get ready to build a project, no one has ever built that project before. And I don't care if it's like the fourth of the exact same footprint that you've done. No, it's not the same team, it's not the same people on the job site. It's every time it's a new situation with a lot of variables. And the people, the people part of it is huge. And the demands that they have at the time, the ability to get the people, like you can't you can't repeat a lot of that. And that's why I think it's so important that while that ship's, you know, maybe drifting on some water a little bit, it's important to allow that to drift a minute, get everybody in the boat together, get that big room huddle going, and say, okay, here's the team we have, here's the strengths that these people have, here's the weaknesses that these people have, here's our personalities and how we work together. And we're gonna take this team and we're gonna go form it to go be successful on getting this pack down the line. So every time your destination may be the same at the finished building, you still are gonna have a different path every time to get there. And I think we have to acknowledge that in our construction industry is you can't take the same, even if you have the same managing team, they can't just go hit repeat and do the same thing again. There's too many variables. So you have to use the strengths and the makeup of your team every single time. The faster you learn them, the better off you are. Now, as far as the corrections go, I think again, if you are aligned, if you are on the same path, if you do know your team, if you have made relationships with your team, those corrections are a lot easier because it's like, hey, is this the way we want to go? Uh, no, okay, cool, let's steer a different way, right? And it and it's a simple redirection because everyone wants to get to the same spot. Now, if you have everybody thinking that they got to go all these different ways, then those corrections are a lot harder because what who are you? Like, are you the stranger who's like, this is the second time they've seen you out of the trailer and you're gonna come and tell them that they're doing it wrong when they've been building this thing for they've been building this thing now for a year and a half. They've been on site every day. And who is this guy to come say, hey man, you need to you need to go put more studs up faster, right? Like, what does that mean? Is that gonna have any impact whatsoever? Right. So, so I think the relationship piece to that's key and kind of like letting uh you know, letting the people that are in the grind every day, like you maybe you you bring them with you and you point this out together and say, hey, guy who's doing this, then I want to look a different way, like what is a better way to do this? Because I guarantee you the person doing it uh knows best what is efficient and what's not efficient, and they're gonna tell you what needs to change. And if you go listen to them as a leader and you go take that obstacle out of their way, uh you're gonna get buy-in and you're gonna be able to move forward.
SPEAKER_02Man, James, did you just feel like did you feel the correction there? Like I have to just feel I feel corrected a little bit.
SPEAKER_03I you know what? I would have nothing to add to that. All I could do is sum up what you said, Mike, because what you're saying is that you know, we are in, we I just lost it. What you were saying was great, great stuff. Well done. Well said, yeah, you've been coming on. I yeah, I'm I'm I'm speechless because it truly is uh important that you know yeah, that we're on that path, and that's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love the piece, and it brings me back to something James said earlier, right? You you created an environment where you've put the work in up front to make those conversations easier down the road, right? And that's that's leadership, that's what it does, right? Like I believe so deeply in who I am that I can help positively influence the outcome of this situation, and I'm gonna lean into the people associated with the situation until they can help discover it for themselves. And you've done like you've created an environment where it's okay to tell a leader, no, hey, we're not on course, right? Like you you've created this. Some people say psychologically safe, some people will just say, hey, it's it's a team, right? Where we can all speak our piece, but we feel safe to speak up to a leader that um when things aren't going right or when I notice something is is wrong or there's an issue. So it might you you absolutely crush that. And honestly, like I feel like you corrected our course a little bit because we had a lot of different analogies flowing around, and now we all know that we're playing football on a boat in the middle of the ocean, which makes the eye in the sky a little bit tougher to see, you know.
SPEAKER_00That's true. And you know, you talk about the uh your leaders, you gotta know your leaders are remember leadership's influence. So when you if you come together, even if you are by title the leader of that team, you're gonna have leaders throughout that team. You're gonna have the natural leaders that people just resonate to and follow. And what's interesting, um, you know, I love when you go to the we'll call it the old crusty superintendent that's been building for 30 years, and you go in and say you're connected to lean in any way, shape, or form, and you're gonna get the automatic talk to the hand, right? You're gonna get the old Heisman to keep using the football analogies here, right? So, so the uh the interesting thing is that if you go build that relationship and you go talk to them, uh man, they're really passionate about clean job sites. Well, how do they go do that? Oh, guess what? They use 5s, they don't know what 5s means, but they're 5s and sons of guns, right? And then, oh man, they get together and they talk to their foreman every day. Whoa, look at that daily huddle that's part of the last penises, right? Like, so so the thing is, like, you're gonna have different tools already being used. And why would we go get stuck on them learning what the name of it is if they're already doing it and getting the results? Let's go call it the old crusty way, right? Let's go call it whatever we want on the job side, but but let's go use it because they're already doing the thing, so let's go take the genius that's already there and let's go maximize it, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I and I think like you can spot this, I think, like true leadership in in like moments what just happened with James, right? Not to call you out, James, but you were so deeply and into what Mike was saying that you totally lost your train of thought or where you wanted to take it. That's real leadership displayed right here on this podcast. Like those are the moments, and then he was just vulnerable and said, Hey, I forgot, like, sorry. And he like that's it right there on display. So yes, beautiful. All right, guys. Yeah, well, so I've got I've got a few other things I want to hit, but my my main question is like, okay, so we've got this podcast, so what? Like what do we want as a result out of this thing? Like, what do we hope changes because of this podcast?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll jump in. I mean, that's uh what obviously we want to change the industry, but that is such an overarching big target. And it's uh, you know, if we can move the Titanic a little bit, but ultimately, you know, and this is where I think we and we throw this out uh to everyone that's in LinkedIn, everyone that's in all of uh uh Adam's secret social sites, you know, all of those things where we can um get find out what people want to know, and then we're gonna bring it. We're gonna bring that information. So, what do I want to hope to do? I want to continue to share the knowledge that I've got. I want to mind the knowledge that sits in Mike's head, and I want to mine the knowledge that sits in Adam's head. Maybe we'll bring some guests on. I want to I want to get to the point where we are sharing this wisdom in a way that's interesting, in a way that's vulnerable, in a way that really gets the message across, where just one person at one point can go, oh, I'm gonna apply that. Like I'm gonna use that, like little things. It's those little increments that bring that huge change, that one percent uh degree change is all that we're looking to do to bring to somebody. And then the next week they can apply something else. So that's what I want to get from this podcast is to be able to share that wisdom, share that knowledge, share that uh all that information uh to those who are willing to listen. And I want to I love doing it with these two great people here.
SPEAKER_00That was good, and that was deep, and I'm gonna take it so much shallower, and I'm gonna go take a page out of Jesse, Jesse Hernandez, selfish servant, and I'm gonna go say, I'm doing it because it's freaking fun, dude. I love it, because I love talking to Adam Hitch, and I love, I mean, dude, we have so much genius out there in our industry, just in the old dogs, dude. Like, like Brent Darnell is a monster in the EI world, and we have Edward Mondi who's cranking away lean stuff and learning about neurodivergence down in Oklahoma. We have J Mar, who's teaching us about hydration, rapid restoration. I mean, we've got we got awesome. Yeah, there we go. There's the drops right there. We've got awesome people all throughout our community, and I am so excited to just call them and pick their brains and learn from them. And I love that we have the ability to go have those conversations, to go be hungry and to learn, and then just hit record and be able to let the whole world benefit from that. And that's what I think is so awesome is you know, we just get to go be curious and have fun and keep learning, but then we get to go say, hey, everybody, come with us, right? Come come along with us. And I think that's a key concept in leadership that we need to understand is you need to go do the stuff yourself. Whatever you want someone to go do, just do it. Go do it, and then bring people with you as you're doing it. So much of the leadership is caught, not taught. And we have to go keep that principle going. And this is this is one way to do it. We're gonna have this conversation anyway, because these people are way too genius to not go pick their brains. But we're gonna hit record and we're gonna share with everybody.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, man. We like to me, somewhere between you two is exactly where I land, man. Like between the wisdom and the fun, right? Highlighting other old dogs. I I had a podcast platform for three and a half years, right? The lean builder hoots on the ground with no bullshit, right? It was awesome. Yeah, um, this is the lean builder hoots on the ground with no bullshit. Anyway, it was fun, it was a blast, Mike. But the first episode I did with two old dogs on there, you and Brian, um, and then to give up control of the platform to you and Brian, and then to and Heather, right? All three old dogs. Like, I didn't trust anybody more uh than to do that. And when we started experimenting with that, like I realized how much bigger this thing is and how much wisdom we truly have in this group with the folks you mentioned, and you know, the cow buyers, the mental health side, the Felipe's. Uh the like we've got four podcasters, we've got four authors with Sam Sinclair and Jody Fitzgerald, like Felipe. We've got books out there, we're helping people write books. We want to launch other people's podcasts, right? We're a huge supporter, the uncommon communicator. Like, um, these are things that make our industry better, like Clyde King out there on LinkedIn putting out the daily tips and things like that. Like you got Ryan Viney and like up in Boston and Jeff Riley, and like all of these folks want a better industry. And how cool would it be to have a podcast where, hey, oh, Jeff Riley, you want to host, or or Kabri Schmidt up in Washington, you want to host an episode? Like, go ahead, join like Marcus Turner, you want to do an AI episode in Chicago, baby? Bring it on, right? Like, I think that is how we spread the wisdom. Is it's not about like like one platform, right? It's about developing and help building everybody's personal brand. And uh man, I I miss so many people. Like, I'm sitting here, like, how do you get LR Whedon and his process focused minded in here and systems thinking, and you know, Cindy Becerra, and like uh Bonnie Waller, like all these people who are just like coming to the table who want to share knowledge, we gotta get it out there. And and the best way to do that, like, is to have a everybody platform, right? And to me, that is so very important as because different people gravitate to different messages and how messages are delivered, and and that's okay. And as we unite, right, we're almost 60 people deep now. Um, we got a lot of messaging to get out to the world, and we're gonna do that through podcasts and books and community get-togethers, and and that's what it's all about, right? Like finding and changing that next generation. Like, I mean, it just like the other one, Boone White comes to mind, like Boone in Mississippi, like his goal is to change the state of Mississippi, right? We are spread throughout this nation and and like just set up so good. Denver Waters in Illinois and D. Hardenberg, like the names just keep coming to my mind as we're sitting here talking. And I just um man, I'm so grateful for a group of people that that are willing to change the industry. And so, what do I hope changes out of this podcast? I I hope that we're able to put every one of those people and all the other 59 folks that are old dogs right now, that that we put them on blast and that their message and their words and and their faith changes this world and and creates better humans. Like to me, that's what it's all about. Yeah, we're all construction, yeah. We all kind of have this lean, this open mindset of we want to get better and improve. But to me, it's like people, right? We're here to develop people. We like we want to make heaven crowded, right? There's a great song called Make Heaven Crowded. Like, to me, that's what it's about. And it happens through this podcast because leadership's just being a good person, just being a humane person who wants better in this world.
SPEAKER_00So I love it, man. You got me pumped up. I'm ready to keep recording, man. Let's let's go, dude. And you you know, you talked about you mentioned Felipe a couple times, and and we have several old dogs in Felipe's community. He has a EBFCA scrum community, and that's what's what's cool about the old dogs, too, is we are in other community, we are in Jesse's community, we you know, Jen and Jess, no BS with Jen and Jess, like you said, the common communicator where James is running that out of Colorado, and and the thing, or not Colorado anymore. Sorry, he moved to California now, right? I do want both both, but so but but anyway, like that's the that's another key piece of this is we are always learning new tricks, and it's not just within the old dogs. We're we have job side experiences, we have different situations, circumstances. So we have these different people that we're connected to in other communities. And what's cool about the old dog platform is as we learn the new tricks, we get to go then turn around to the old dog community and go share the new tricks that we've learned, and so we get to learn from all these experts in the industry, and then we get to go share that knowledge, and that's that's what's so important is is that we're constantly learning, but then we're constantly sharing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, heck yeah, and I don't know what's about to happen, but I'm gonna go ahead and click this button. Ah, looky there, man. It put us a little QR code up at the top left. So if you want to come be a part of that, right, you can hit that link. Uh, we'd certainly welcome you with open arms. If not, that's cool too, man. You can just listen to some of these podcasts, check out our LinkedIn. The communities actually you can see the entire social media on the community at school.com at that at the website, the QR code will take you to skew it's school.com backslash old dog. Man, it's all out there for free, right? Because that's what we do. We share. And if you're a student and you're interested, please reach out because we do have some student scholarships to sponsor your memberships and things like that. Like we we just want a different industry. So, um, what do you guys think, man? How did we do?
SPEAKER_00James, how do we do, man? You breathe, you breathe before I did. I was giving you how do we do, buddy?
SPEAKER_03How do we do? Well, I think we did great. You know what? That's that's the I think the pleasure of this group as well, too. And you even see it within our old dog uh meetings that we have in our in our real. Chats and all of those. There's such a respect for each other, uh, that you don't have like typically the running over of people. Uh, you know, those things happen, especially in in a in a complex uh podcast like that. I think we did great. I think we really shared the vision. I think we shared our heart, and then uh from that we're we're giving out there saying, please join us, come come do this with us, because together uh we found out that we're all on that sailboat together. And that I think that that was communicated very well today. Uh what a what a pleasure. Like this is this this is good just for the record, this is good podcasting, folks.
SPEAKER_00Oh man, and I'm just having fun, man. I didn't even know there was like a grading on that, but but you know, yes, we have a LinkedIn page, dude. I checked this one. We had up to 352 followers. We started that a few months ago. So there's people there's a lot of people that so even though we have like around 60 school members paid each month, like we have a lot of people that are out there that are curious about hey, what what is it with this uh people side of construction? What are those tips and tricks that we can learn? And that's awesome. I love that that's available. I love with this new podcast that that's gonna expand further because we're gonna hit other platforms, right? We're gonna hit all the typical podcast platforms now, and it's gonna be expanding that reach even more. But, you know, the the people that are interested and wanting to dive in more, every week we have something offered. Every week we have we have uh the first Thursday of the month, we have that real field talk, and that's just grabbing the lean coffee format and just jumping in and solving each other's issues. And I love that because we have people joining in and we have talked about some crazy deep stuff there, right? Where it's like, hey, I'm really struggling with this, and we got the whole collective community just willing to help people talk through those items. I've really loved seeing the uh the intentionality there and the vulnerability that people have there. And then, you know, if you want to get really, really vulnerable, you know, grabbing and expanding on uh on uh the leadership versus transparency, which is also very key in Dr. Hoots's uh you know doctoral uh uh research right now. So come on to that one. But we got every once a month, we got really real where you have to go work on your coaching and your listening and you gotta be vulnerable and sharing problems. And oh, it's so tough and it's hard, but it's so good. And then and then you have the learn the new tricks, right? That's where we bring the experts in once a month in our lunch and learn format, and we just we go we go learn new tips and tricks from everybody, right? And we and we got Marcus Taylor, we got Felipe, we got Jesse, we got all those experts coming right in and talking straight to the old dogs, and and then we have once a month we have the faith huddle, and that's where I jump in and do a little Sunday school action, and uh and we talk about faith and we talk about our why. And though all those things are there on that school platform, and if you're a member there, you're gonna be able to go click on all those, even if you can't be there live or at the time, you'll be able to see what we're learning and get that content. So it it that's a key is we're always gonna be learning new tricks as a group, and we're gonna be sharing that with you, and we're gonna be making that available so you can all worry about uh you know how to get better whenever you can. Like whenever you got the time, go go in there, learn the tips and tricks from industry uh uh experts all over the country and get better. And this podcast is just another way to do that, and I'm so excited to be a part of it. I'm so happy that we got our own group and our own brand and we get to go uh expand on that however we feel led to do that. I'm super excited about that. So I will uh I will talk to y'all anytime. I love you guys and I love the conversation and uh just our old dog brute, man. I'm just so proud and excited to be a part of that.
SPEAKER_02Amen. And I do want to be very clear like to join school, there is a ten dollar a month uh fee, and that money is collected to send old dogs to universities. We visit two universities in the spring, two in the fall. So, you know, it's not anybody's nobody's getting rich off of this thing, right? It's all the money's going back to the community, and um, and you may even get a hat if you come to LCI. So let's figure that out.
SPEAKER_0010 bucks a month, man. So you're telling me that one day out of the month I I have to give up my coffee so that I can go join and get all this knowledge. Like, why would I want to give up my one cup of coffee for the day?
SPEAKER_02Isn't it sad that a cup of coffee costs 10 bucks these days? My yeah, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would I would gladly give away a cup of coffee a month so that I could go get uh all the expert knowledge that that we have, man.
SPEAKER_02Amen, brother. Well, I'm excited to be on this journey with you two specifically. Again, I I think they you know just that uh that accountability factor that hey, somebody's gonna ring me and make sure I was a good human being today, and that person's also like closely connected to God. Like, I should probably listen to that dude. I think uh that old dog's got a point there, so we'll we'll put it that way. Um, but man, I you know, again, like just this episode. I I agree, James. I think we did a fantastic job. Like, this is great podcasting for those of you who didn't know. I love your ability to handle a tough question, James. Uh, and then spin us. I also feel a little course corrected there too. So thank you, sir. Uh, I I I love just again the the ability to depend on two other folks that I know are gonna show up and just add so much value to to the to the podcast. And you know, who knows, like maybe even an episode or two without me. Like those are those are beautiful things or guests. Like, I am so excited for this series for the old dogs and what we're doing because we are changing the industry. Like, I you can see this kind of gravitational pull towards taking care of people, specifically those people doing the work that we talked about earlier. So um I'll be ever forever grateful for you two and the old dogs that have come and gone, and those that will come. Uh, man, welcome. And here we are changing this industry. So hold on, hold tight. Because here we go, baby. Let's go. Let's go.