The Signals Shaping B2B

B2B buyers aren’t procurement robots. They scroll Instagram, follow creators, get pulled into trends, and spend plenty of time online just like everyone else. So why does so much B2B content still feel like it was made for a committee instead of a person?

In the first episode of B2B Weekly, Chris Cunningham and Will McTighe break down the signals shaping where B2B marketing is headed. They unpack the mysterious Kumar account that gained more than a million followers in under a week, why brands should consider building recognizable characters of their own, and how Vanta turned an unglamorous compliance problem into a live, watchable series for exactly the right audience.

Then they get into why livestreaming may be B2B’s next big format, how to tell a useful trend from a lazy brand trap, and what Chris learned at Cannes Lions about creating experiences people will still talk about after the event ends. Throughout, they make the case that reach alone isn’t the goal—the best B2B content earns attention by feeling human, specific, and impossible to confuse with everyone else.

If your content strategy still depends on polished interviews, copied trends, or one-off events with no amplification plan, this episode will show you what to do differently.

Transcript

— The signals changing B2B content

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And this is Kumar. My name is Kumar, and I'm gonna steal your job who came out of nowhere to grow over a million followers in less than a week.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

There is a brand behind this. Nearly a hundred million views so far on seven videos. So this is really an outsized investment opportunity for B2B brands if you decide to invest in it seriously.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Content is more important than ever. Brands know it, they're doubling down on it. And so Will and I love content. We're obsessed with content on all the platforms for B2B. So we decided let's talk about it weekly.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

B2B companies are realizing that your buyer is not a procurement robot. They don't just like walk around their day thinking about what B2B SaaS tool do I need to buy for my company. They also spend time on Instagram. They also hanging out and brain rotting like everyone else. And so B2B companies are now starting to apply some of these consumer playbooks in their marketing. What's really interesting about this is that you can replicate this for your niche.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

I think every company is now realizing that they should hop on trends, and you should. But the problem is there's some trends that are perfect for your brand and that you should jump into, and there's some trends that are just a trap, in my opinion. Take a guess. Which one do you all think is the trap? And which one do you think is the one your brand should jump on? All right. So content is more important than ever. Brands know it, they're doubling down on it. And so Will and I love content. We're obsessed with

— Welcome to B2B Weekly

SPEAKER_02 1:28

content on all the platforms for B2B. So we decided let's talk about it weekly. Welcome to B2B Weekly. Will, introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Hey everyone. Yeah. So I met Chris on a retreat with Zapia now over a year ago. And we've been talking about this for so long. And so uh I now am chronically on LinkedIn and X, uh, and Chris is chronically on Instagram. And both of us work in a B2B world, so this is the beginning of something.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

It's the first time. I think we need to dive in. I'm chronically on LinkedIn too, but I do I do love Instagram as well, and I'm seeing like the trends and how to grow there. All we want to do is help out with brands understanding what to do. Because I know when I go online and I want to get better, right? Like, yeah, I hit two billion impressions last year. I'm so proud of that. But I feel like I keep trying to find a podcast or somewhere to learn. If I can't find it, I guess we may as well build it, right? So the best thing we can do is just start diving right in. And there's a couple things I want to talk about. And so one trend I had to show Will, and I think we're gonna see this come on LinkedIn, because the one thing that is an advantage to Instagram is I do think the trends happen on Instagram and TikTok early. And then the good news, if you're watching, that's why I think I grow on LinkedIn so fast, is I'm watching these trends and I'll bring it over to LinkedIn. And, you know,

— How Kumar gained one million followers in under a week

SPEAKER_02 2:38

with ClickUp, obviously we have the TV show basically that I've kind of pulled from Instagram and have brought it over to LinkedIn. And so this is something I'm seeing the same that I'm taking a bet. And this is Kumar. My name is Kumar, who came out of nowhere to grow over a million followers in less than a week. There is a brand behind this. I'm not exactly sure who it is, but I know there's a brand behind this, and I can't really say any of I did know. Think about this. This page grew in less than three posts to over one million followers. That kind of growth is insanely fast. I mean, look at Will. Will's worked a long time to half a million followers on LinkedIn, which in my opinion is worth 20 million on Instagram. The followers are so much more valuable there. Even my like 40k feels like it's made way more valuable. But Will, did you see this? And I think I showed it to you. What were your initial thoughts? And then I'll dive into why I think it works and what it means for everyone who's watching.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, so I loved this when you showed it to me. I think what it really pulled on is that it pulled on this stereotype of the user. So the main guy in this is this retired Indian accountant. And you basically see him wearing like Matrix style men in black uh clothing and looking really cool when he's, you know, a little bit overweight and fits in a bunch of stereotypes of how you how you think about accountants. And he he doesn't look stereotypically cool. And it was this combination of doesn't look stereotypically cool with a crazy cool edit where he looks so young and so so exciting. Was it? And combining those two things together was this contradiction that made you just uh want to learn more and want to know uh what happened next.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

100%. He also wasn't afraid to make fun of himself, right? Like he did the cool edits, the way the cameras moved at the end. His wife is like, hey, my husband just really wants to be famous. Can you please follow him? Right. So that just it adds in every single part of what I think would really work on social media. One, if you can tap into Gen Z, it is a faster way to win, right? They're more chronically online. That's what they love. But then he found a way to also talk to you know the boomers, because this is a boomer who's in this Gen Z flow, this Gen Z edit with this cool sound. That's what made it great. And then what I also like is he called out all the finance bros, right? Which really makes me lead to think there's a tech company behind this. But he says, all finance bros are coming for you, right? And and he says, I'm gonna teach everyone how to make uh you know make better choices with finance. So I'm not selling a course, he's just gonna come out and help the world. And so I think that was a cool statement. And you want to put everyone on blast, right? Because everyone knows these finance bros, everyone's sick of their content. So the fact that he's calling them out, he's coming after them, it gives table stakes. That's one of the last things I think every brand should think of. When you when you watch good content, there's table stakes. He has a mission, he has an enemy, he's fighting someone, right? Like one of the most popular YouTube videos of all time is a video where the guy's like, I'm traveling across the world with just one penny. And of course you're gonna watch it then. You want to see how he makes it, how he gets there. And so, same with Kumar. You're like, I want to see him take down these finance bros. I want to see if he can, if this old man can really come compete with everyone else creating content out here, and it makes you want to root for him. So that's why I think that works so well. But there is something that also played out is he stopped posting and they had this other character come in. So I'm wondering where is the drama? Is there something going on that Will and I'll be bringing up next episode? If anyone has the info, please send to us. But something happened because they they haven't posted with Kumar in quite some time and they subbed in someone else, some other random name. So I don't know if they're building something, but I don't want I hope they don't lose the power that they built because this this brand was hot for a bit, but in social media,

— Building a recognizable character for your niche

SPEAKER_02 6:05

if you don't stay on top of it, people can forget about you. So let's let's see what goes down.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah. I'd also say that what's really interesting about this is that you can replicate this for your niche. So if you know, if we assume it's a tech company behind this, then it's most likely that they are targeting accountants or in finance. Um, because that's who they're speaking to and the type of content that they're speaking to. But you could do this for marketing. You could take what is the stereotypical marketer, and then create a character who's like the opposite. In some ways, I think Rory Sutherland would be the perfect guy for that. Very funny, but overweight, looks quite quirky, and then says, like, I'm coming after the marketers or something. If I was a brand, what I would be doing right now is I'd be going, okay, who are my target audience? Who is my the enemy? And is there some version of this that I could create? And it doesn't mean with the same edit. Like I know the way people typically jump on trends is they'll do a very similar edit, like same colors, same uh same sound, but you can take this a bit further and make your own version that has a different edit, but the same underlying principles, which is like an enemy, and then you take this like stereotypical or non-stere or stereotypical but not cool version of your buyer profile and make it about them.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

And now for me to take a step further, even so, I think there's another trend that's to be spotted in this, and that's that it's very hard to grow a brand account, right? But what doesn't look as hard is to grow a new person in a new account. So I think brands should be looking into is just like you said, Will, like, how can I make this my strategy? Like, how can I do this? But then also, like, how can I make a character? Then how can I do it my way? So what many brands did was they did. They copied the same edit, I'm so and so, I'm coming for marketing, you know. But now what if there's a new way? Like, what if there is instead of like saying I'm coming for the marketers, what if there's someone who's like, hey, you know, marketing's been done all wrong and I'm coming in and I'm gonna do it, you know, this way, and then it's it's it's you know, it's say it's it's gamma, it's click up, it's it's some cool brand that has this one person that is associated with them. Because it's so easy to follow one person and get behind them, whereas it's different for a brand. You know, a brand is like, okay, it's it's cool, and and that's why you have to make some type of different content. But there's something there in finding a character who can become yours that isn't just talking about your brand, but lightly sneaks it in, right? Maybe like I'm sure whoever made this account was planning on and maybe still will add in their brand, right? And I think that's like the big win. So if you find another character that you can do, that you can make big, that has millions of followers and has a consistent audience from there, then is when you can take off and you can start sliding in your brand lightly. Because people are online all the time. This is number one place to market to, but brands are not always doing it correctly.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

And this is what you did with ClickUp is you built faces of the brand. If it was just a pure ClickUp account, that just wouldn't have performed. Like it every brand needs to be personified. And often the easiest way is to create a face or a cast of characters that bring it to life.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

100%. And I think the reason why I did that is you just want to humanize the brand, right? Like now, like people can always think of ClickUp as a project management software, but you won't remember that as much. But when you think of those funny people who make you laugh each and every week, now you're more likely to remember them. And that's why whoever Kumar was associated with, people would know them really well. Like they would think about them all the time. Like, okay, that's that's this funny old guy that I relate with. Uh, he's he's with them now, right? And and that's why you see so many companies. Like at the Super Bowl, you had Ramp, who got the guy from the office, right? Like, great move right there. Like now you associate them, and they also have gotten Saquon Barkley. So they're tapping into different markets and associating. So it's definitely something there, but this is a much cheaper way, in my opinion, than going and paying Saquon Barkley or someone from the office. You say Gamma did the same. They got Dwight from the office, right? Very funny. But those are one-time things. Whereas I think when you can build your own person, your own faces, then the people think about you all the time, and you can also use them in ads and everything else. That's why I am very heavy on build your

— The investment behind a breakout content idea

SPEAKER_02 10:06

own characters.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

And how much do you think they spent on this?

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Oh, wait, on the Kumar or on Yeah, on the Kumar. On the Kumar, I think they still pr split a pretty penny. In my opinion, they got some pretty solid agency or some someone from YouTube who knows what they're doing, uh, who's not cheap. So I my guess with the person, everything, I would say they put about 200 grand into that.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

But that's not even that much. Like think about how many views that account has had.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

I think it's had let me just probably probably probably 180 million, if I had to guess, which is suit which is better than a Super Bowl commercial, or almost as good as a Super Bowl commercial.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah, and like 200 grand for 200 million impressions. One sec. Let me just let me just. The video itself is is not that complicated. Like it's not expensive to shoot, but it is exp I mean the the idea in the creative, they've probably got someone who's like really, really good on the creative side, and that would be I think where the vast majority of the money would have gone here. So I'm looking at this now and I'm seeing 50, 60, 85, 90, 95, nearly a hundred million views so far on one, two, three, four, five, six, seven videos.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Insane. Insanity. I mean, I'm super thinking how hard I work to hit, you know, 200 million impressions every month. I'm posting 30 minutes and I'm and I'm staying on it and I'm checking. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

So this is really an outsized investment opportunity for brands, it be to be brands, if you decide to invest in it seriously, um, just based on how this is performed.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

And for any brand who does decide to do this, I just all I ask is don't copy them. You know, like do your own thing, like find your own way. You can you can copy certain things from the format or from the strategy, but find your own lane because people can feel when it's natural to you. Like whoever that brand was, that's right, natural them to go after finance pros, to have that kind of old nerdy person relating to Gen Z. Like that was natural to them. Whereas it might not be for yours. So think about your audience, and again, that's why I'm always pressuring everyone before you try to make any content, know your audience. If you don't know your audience, you don't know what to make. You never will. So know your audience and then find out, and then go make a character like Kumar.

unknown 12:17

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

All right, should we hit the next topic, Will?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yes, let's get on to the the next topic. So this week I saw that Vanta has started a live series. For those who don't

— How Vanta made compliance content watchable

SPEAKER_01 12:27

know them, uh, Vanta is a compliance company, not the sexiest thing in the world, but they've raised more than half a billion dollars, hit more than a $4 billion valuation, and more than 1,200 companies work with them using their platform to help automate security compliance like SOC 2, ISO, 27,001, HIPAA, you know, all the alphabet soup. And what they've created is a new video format that they're putting on YouTube, where in each episode a veteran security leader role-plays as a chief information security officer of a fictional company, while the host runs them through a simulated crisis in real time. The scenario unfolds in stages, and basically the guest reacts live to each new development without a script and potentially without knowledge of what is coming. And so in the first episode, they have a guy called Alex Stamos, who's the uh chief investment security officer of a company called Buzz Matrix. It's a made-up 400-person AI SaaS company. And marketing ships an AI chatbot on Friday without security review, and it starts giving customer data out. So, why is this interesting? Well, it has a game mechanic built into it, and it really speaks to a specific audience. Like it's called the tabletop. Tabletop exercises, as I found from some core research today, is something you actually do in security. Teams run these simulations internally to rehearse incident responses. And so what Vanta did is they took a ritual that their buyers already do behind closed doors and they turned it into a spectator format with a sense of suspense in that there are there is there's tension because there is something going wrong, and then you're interested to see okay, how does this person or this experienced practitioner respond to it? And so, why is this interesting? Well, one, it's a great way to put your prospects and customers on camera in a relatable scenario rather than some like tidy success story. And I think the second thing that's really interesting is that they haven't chased virality at all. This video on YouTube has 616 views, it's it's nothing relative to the you know 180 million that Chris is doing uh each month at ClickUp. But those 616 people are probably other chief information security officers. And so for them, this is something that they would actually care about. And if those people are deciding 100, 200, 500, a million dollar contracts, then giving them something that they enjoy is

— Why live and unscripted formats feel different

SPEAKER_01 15:08

really valuable. And the final thing is that they are no longer doing talking head. And I've I'd be intrigued to hear what you think about this, Chris. But I think there's a lot of talking head content around right now, and just with AI making Talking Head easier, I think we're seeing a transition to more uh live or simulated experiences, which is like this. This is more back and forth and engaging.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

100%. So I and I hate it because I feel like I just got good at talking head. Uh but that's how the game goes. And and I mean, social media is changing faster than ever, right? So I agree. But I'm also seeing is not just that talking head, I don't keep my phone around me when I'm working, but what I'm also seeing is just this. Just pull your phone out, start talking, right? Like that has been a big change. Some people just want to pull their phone out, start talking immediately. Because I think what people are craving with AI and with so much talking head content, just craving something real, right? They know what talking head is. You got a setup, you probably have a script, you're probably reading something, you probably planned it, you probably thought about it. And what I think people are craving and what they're missing is just like they want to feel like they're hanging out with somebody. And that's why these that's why you see in the younger generation this whole like live streaming, you know, the curriculars and whoever else. I don't watch any of it. I hate it. I hate it all. But but the reason why they're winning is just because they're just online at all times, right? And then people are clipping it up, and that's the whole game. And I'm telling you, like everything I've seen, B2B is always behind B2C. So I don't know what that's gonna be, but in some way, shape, or form, there will be live streaming of B2B. There will be live streaming of building products, there will be live streaming of of these events that we go to, right? Like I think maybe Zapier would have been smart in the past, and maybe I'll do this in one of our events to live stream the event, to make it real, like you're hanging out with us, and then and then we cut up clips of moments, right? Like maybe the moment me and you first became good friends, and like we were like, hey, I'm gonna write a LinkedIn post for you. Like that was a moment, or you know, like things like that. Uh where I'm like, hey, I'm gonna connect you to this person, that'd probably be a good place. I think just seeing that, um, there's something there because the reason why I don't think people really like a lot of these annoying people, but they're the only ones willing to put their life online 24-7. And so people like that. Like they like feeling like they can just hang out with someone living a different life than them. And so I don't know what that is for business yet, but I've been telling our the ClickUp team, I've been writing it down. I will figure it out though. Like I always do, I'll figure it out, but that's something I want to think about. And so I like seeing Vanta do this, I like seeing the new changes because I do think more people are gonna have to move away from Talking Head. And the funny thing is is that typically once brands get to where they figure out what to do in content is when it changes. And I think that talking head is what everyone is just now learning how to do well. And I agree, it's shifting. Like people want something different, they want to feel like they're hanging with you, they want to feel like you brought them with them on their phone or on a Osmo Pocket 3, and they're live, and that's that's where things are going. And again, it's it's tough because a lot of your work day is just buying a computer doing Zoom, but the more you can show the other cool parts, maybe your networking or maybe like your big decision making, that's what people will tune into.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah, two two things on that. One, I love that bet on B2B live streaming. It's coming. I don't know what it looks like yet, but I am 100%

— The livestreaming opportunity for B2B

SPEAKER_01 18:01

with you that is coming. Like, what if a CEO is live streaming hot hot part of his day? Like, I think that's just a massive opportunity right now. Um, I don't know who's gonna do it first, but people are so curious about what high status people are doing. And CEOs are the perfect example of that. They are like really high status. I think there's just a big opportunity there. So let's see who pulls this out of the bag. Maybe it'll be one of our clients, but maybe it's gonna be us.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Maybe we'll do this one.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah, although we're not, you know, not CEO of a 4,000-person company yet, but we're not CEO.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

I think we can do some cool stuff. I mean, look, there's um, you know, I'll see you in San Francisco on uh Monday, so maybe we can pull some off there. But yeah, I think just showing more of your work day, like what it looks like. Hey, I'm about to go shoot 20 ads right now, this is how I do it. Because I don't even think it just has to be CEOs. Obviously, CEOs have it the easiest, right? Like people want to watch that stuff more than ever. But I think it's so well possible to just be like, hey, I'm a marketing manager and this is how I'm you know, I'm doing a shoot day today. I've I've paid 50 grand for this shoot, you know, being very, very open about what you do. I paid 50k. My goal is to get 40 ads that I can run and and then come back and say, hey, remember those ads I shot? Like this is the numbers it's getting. So just I think seeing just a little more behind the scenes in the workplace, because again, in B2B, we're all still just figuring out in a way. It's not like we all went to college for B2B and these things are running. Like the business you're running, you didn't go to school for that. You didn't go to school to become a LinkedIn uh guru, right? You just became that. You learned that. And so the more you share your process, which I don't even want to share too much because I think it's what makes you so so good, is no one is as good as you. But uh, same. You know, like I think that I still try to share pieces of what makes our content great. I'm not afraid to share it. I think it is hard to replicate. And if someone does replicate it, great. There's plenty of room out here to all succeed.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah, there's there's so much room. And also, I mean, people don't actually do what you say.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

You can tell people exactly what to do, and they they uh they rarely do it. But anyway,

— Turning customers and prospects into participants

SPEAKER_01 19:51

uh cool. So so I think that's what was really interesting about it. And I think if you are a business, like how can you replicate this yourself? You're you're selling to B2B audience. So I would pick a live problem, not some like evergreen educational stuff that uh you can make content with a prospect or with a customer about. Maybe it's a regulation change, maybe it's some kind of outage, maybe it's some like pricing shift in your category, and you go through a live exercise here of doing this with your client or prospect. And I think what is really interesting here is that this is no longer just interviews. This is no longer like, hey Chris, tell me about your career, where do you learn the value of a dollar? Like, talk to me about the first crisis you went through, etc. etc. It is it is a different format that is more engaging. Second thing I'd say is invite prospects and customers to do it with you. Because this is a great way to drive leads if you say to a prospect, hey, do you want to come in and do this live exercise with me? That's something you can you can definitely do. And then just on the distribution, do it as I would distribute it in as a main piece of content, but then also get clips that you can put on on socials as well. Uh, because this is a great piece to use Gary V's framework, like of pillar content that has a lot of stuff that comes comes out from it as well. And the final thing I'd say is distribute it to your email list. Because often you have an email list of people who care about whatever your business does, and you're basically saying to them, hey, here's some free value. Here's something that you can learn from from someone that uh that you respect. So yeah, that's what you can take away from this.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Love it. Start these things now. The more content you can make with your customers, it's always the it's always better. And then secondly, just to add on to that, Will, when you make that content, maybe make something that is about you, where you're teaching them. What I'll always do is if I if ever I get a client on like a riverside or on something where I'm shooting them, I always want to give them something that's just value that has nothing to do with my brand. So what I'll do is let's say I was interviewing you and you were a client of of mine. Sure, I might have you talk about click up and how it's great, or maybe I'll solve one of your problems on your live, but also be like, hey, tell me why your product's great. And then they'll make that and they'll they'll have that and I'll cut that into a video for them, and that's a gift. You know, like always be thinking how you can give back to your customers. In a way, it's content, and they're still gonna go post it and get value. So one last thing there.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Yeah, that's a great idea. All right. Next topic. Hit us with it, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Trends. Trends. I think every company is now realizing that they should

— Which social trends should brands follow?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

hop on trends, and you should. But the problem is there's some trends that are perfect for your brand and that you should jump into, and there's some trends that are just a trap, in my opinion. So let's dive into it. There's two that came out very recently, and I'll name them both, and I'll let everyone guess first. There's two trends that came out that you've all seen if you log into Instagram at all, and it's coming to LinkedIn and everything as well. And the trends are number one, it's the Netflix documentary trends. There's this music, it's like dun dun dun dun dun. If you've watched any Netflix documentary, I can't stop watching them. I love them. But where they come in and someone sits down, you know, they're putting the mic on, you're just meeting them for the first time, and they sit down and they're kind of wondering what camera to look at, and they're putting just text over it. It says, like, my Netflix documentary when company chat gets leaked, or when my when my group chat gets leaked, or basically like some crazy dramatic thing that happened in your life, and you gotta tell, and you're you're on a Netflix documentary now because of it. So that is one big one that's that's that's popping off. But now, trend number two is the Empire State flag. Did you see this where the couple climbed up?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Oh, yeah, yeah. I definitely saw this.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

So trend number two is where the Empire State Building, these this couple climbed up and they got engaged up there and they put like this sign up that said like love is for everyone, or or something like that. And why I think this is great, one, it's just a super viral moment. What an insane, like, who's not gonna talk about that? A couple broke into the Empire State Building, they climbed to the top, they put this flag. And so there's two things that brands are doing on both these trends. One, they're doing their own Netflix documentary, and then two, people are just

— The difference between a smart trend and a trap

SPEAKER_02 23:49

putting their brand on the flag. And so I'm gonna tell you right now, take a guess. Which one do you all think is the trap? And which one do you think is the one your brand should jump on?

SPEAKER_00 23:57

I don't want to get this wrong now.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

I'm gonna go ahead and tell, I'll tell everyone now. So the one that is the trap to me is the Empire State flag, and I'll tell you why. It's a historical moment, it's a great moment. But look how lazy it is to just put your brand on there and just Photoshop or use AI to put your brand logo on there. Every company did it. So I'll show you right now. It's gonna come in. Hundreds of companies did it. Hundreds. So no one stood out, right? Nothing was unique, nothing was cool. Maybe one or two because it was just so fast and no one else had seen it, will take off. But everyone else just looks kind of dumb. You look like you look like you have no thought to your social media. Now, the Netflix, that is a perfect one for you all to jump on. Why? Because now you can make this one personal to you. And what I mean by that is so for clickup, you know, I could say our Netflix documentary, when they asked how I decided to have two grown men twerking was gonna be good content, right? That's just that's personal to us. That's funny, that's relatable. Those who follow us will feel that. That's putting my own spin on something that's already popular. Whereas if I just put the click-up logo or clickup brain tour, one of our new features on that, that's just lazy to me. And I think everyone else is gonna do it. It just shows that I have no creativity and I I don't really work that hard on my social media because what people want to see is that you really care, you're building something, you're not just stealing, you're not just taking. So that's my perspective on it. Feel free to dive in, Will. But when you see no, when you see something that you can dive into and you can make it a better, a better trend or put your own spin on it, jump on it.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

When you're just copying and pasting, don't Yeah, I love the distinction there between adding your own aspect of like creativity, where here it is, you are going through okay, what have been some of the formative moments in our company's history? Maybe some of them are already public, like when you nearly went bust or something like that. Like, for example, uh Tesla, when they nearly went bust in 2008. Yeah. That could be, I mean, Elon would never do this, obviously, but if it was a different company, the founder could and be like, this was our Netflix documentary moment, or at least part of it.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

100%. So yeah, I think just to just to recap, you should jump on trends. Don't jump on every trend. Don't be that brand that just does trends. But again, look for trends that you can put your spin on, not ones where you're just adding

— What B2B brands can learn from Cannes Lions

SPEAKER_02 26:03

in and copying everyone else.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

So the next topic we have is Cannes Lions. So neither Chris and I actually went to Cannes Lions. I did. Oh, you went? I didn't know you actually went. I was there. Did you uh were you giving a talk?

SPEAKER_02 26:17

I gave a talk at a s at side events, and then I hosted a side event as well. So I hosted a tennis event with uh Serena Williams tennis coach. Woo! Had that going on with with the Nucleus Network. It was awesome. I'll I'll post some photos and stuff over here. But I did go, but I'll let you let you keep running and I can put my spin. You can put your spin on what you saw for far, and I'll put my spin on someone who was there and and live because it is I'll just say this, it is not what I thought it was. It's an experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, so what I found really interesting about this is the the number of uh B2B brands there, but I think more importantly, it's that uh and the amount of money they were spending. Like um, you know, I think Chris Chris. Yeah. Well, what did you see? How much were people spending?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Uh I talked to a few, so I think it was I talked to TikTok after, and they spent around six million dollars. Yahoo had like one of the main beach areas, and then they had uh Tiesto come perform. I know the Tiesto cost at least a million dollars to come perform. I know his manager. And so we think to get that spot alone was probably another two million. I mean, Yahoo might be spent five to eight. A couple of ways you can sponsor at Can Lions. I'll break it down for you. You have what's called the beach area. And this is this little part where you walk through, it's the main area, and it's where everyone wants to be. So if you have something in activation there, I guarantee it's at least a million dollars. It's got to be at least a million dollars. So you have this activation where you come, people can hang, there's speakers, you can have events, you can have you know drinks, things like that. But people come and you can have different like Canva, Canva was doing where you can make your cut a custom journal right then and there. Adobe was doing like cool photos, every company was there doing something. Then you have some other brands like Female Quotient, and what Female Quotient did, ah man, they nailed it. They got the Hotel Martinez, which is one of the nicest hotels right there, and they basically took that whole thing over. And so they had the rooftop. And if you had if you had access and you could get in, you had to give your email and stuff, and they had to choose you and select you, and if you could get in, you can go on their rooftop. They had drinks, food, appetizer, you had the most beautiful view of the conference. Then you have yachts. And so there's another side where there's a bunch of boats, and so you can rent a yacht, which is actually cheaper than the other space, and people could just come on your yacht, chill and experience, and then maybe you could take them out. Then you have the fourth way, and that's how a lot of companies like the scrappier companies, I would say, play. That's where maybe you host a dinner. Maybe you rent a yacht for a bit and take it out. Maybe you hosted just some like side events, something cool like I did, like a tennis event, sporting event. But you did something the other people could go to, but no matter what, you could be like JT Barnett, who threw an insane party, right? So you just want to make some cool noise there with uh he did that with Stan. So anything you do to make noise there was to play because everyone was there. And then what I also learned is everyone's taking meetings there. So they're all coming in and like all CEOs are setting up. What I plan next year, I'm gonna make sure I I one apply to every event early because it is hard to get into a lot of these big events. Two, you set meetings. That's the big thing there. You set meetings because so many VPs, CEOs, C-suite, they're all there. And they're down to take a meeting, they're there to take a lot of meetings. So during the day, there's a lot of meeting room space where you can pop in and and take. But but brands had to spend anywhere from you know 20k, 40k for a smaller event like me, 100k for the middle, and then 300k to like millions of I'm curious, was it expanding beyond just marketers?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Or was it primarily marketers there?

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Nah, they say it's just marketers, but this this thing was it was a lot of creators, right? You have a lot of a lot of the LinkedIn. I'm almost I'm sad you weren't there. A lot of the LinkedIn crew is there that I saw, um, a lot of Instagram creators as well. But I would say it's it's it's athletes, it's celebrities, it's C-suite, it's marketers. There's definitely not like dev teams there, but there's CEOs, there's VPs. Most CEOs of the companies who were there were there. Like I met the CEO of Yahoo at their event.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Really?

SPEAKER_02 29:39

They're there. So I think it's I think it's just become it's become more to me than

— Why marketing now takes more than seven touches

SPEAKER_02 29:45

just like a marketing event that it used to be. Now it's like who's who? Like who can be there? It's who's who, and it's a big play, and it's also a big party. It revolves around a lot of drinking, a lot of cool events. And I'll tell you this, I'll never miss another one.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

That's fine. Yeah, I think I think maybe just like leveling up, what's pretty interesting about it is that we're in a world now where building product is uh easier than before. And there used to be, particularly in the B2B world, I think the rule was the rule of seven touches. You had to touch your buyer like seven times before they would reach out. Well, I think it's actually becoming a lot more than that. I think you know, Chris made this point to me the other day that it's actually more like the rule of 40. And especially when the size of your contracts are enormous, like in B2B, then this but is becoming more and more important. And historically, like B2B marketing has been a bit of a second-class citizen to sales. Sales has driven revenue growth more than more than marketing. And what it seems like is that because it's getting harder and harder to market, people are investing more in B2B and trying to learn more as well. Yeah, one thing that's quite funny is like, frankly, B2B companies are realizing that your buyer is not a procurement robot. Like, they they don't just like walk around their day thinking about like what B2B SaaS tool do I need to buy for my company. They also spend time on Instagram, they also are uh hanging out and brain rotting like like everyone else. And so B2B companies are now starting to apply some of these consumer playbooks in their marketing. And that I think is probably the interesting underlying trend. Like there were companies like OpenAI there, um, Yahoo,

— Events need a social amplification plan

SPEAKER_01 31:28

to your point. And so I think that's really where the opportunity is, is and that's what Cannes Lions speaks to that B2B marketing is becoming more serious and getting more investment uh and hopefully doing more innovative stuff.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

I think so. The big thing is it is getting more innovative. So it used to be enough just to have to have an event and have speakers. Now it's like you're gonna have these parties. I mean, John Summit was booked, Tiesto was booked, right? They had famous NBA athletes, uh, WNBA, you name it, they were there. I mean, at one point I was sitting at dinner and Derek Jeter was sitting across from me. It's just everyone was there. But to really stand out, you had to do something cooler. So, you know, like Meta, Meta did a really cool event, whereas like networking, when of course they had like drinks and stuff, it was on like literally on the water, like over top. So it was just it was just really cool. And then AirOps did a really cool event where they took us out on a yacht, showed us around, let us swim, served us great food. What I've learned is to win in marketing, you can do what you used to. You can't just host an event, you can't just do one thing. You gotta really go above and beyond, you gotta really stand out, and then you gotta get the content about to remind people afterwards. That's that's the game now. If you're not doing all the above, you even if you do a great event, you might get forgotten about.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yeah. One final point you made that is really important is every event and in-person spend needs to be thought about as an amplification opportunity. It has to have some social associated with it to get maximum bang for your buck. Like, for example, you spend a million on Tiesto, you want to make sure that you have creators or people who can help amplify that for you. It's not just enough to spend on the event itself, because that's how you maximize uh the return on that spend.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Agreed. And I mean, trust me, I know it's more than anyone. I won't do an event. And I think it's crazy when people do do an event, and you don't have some, like, just get a get a content creator there. You book them for a half day rate, a couple hours, right? And then you get editors, you don't have that same person who shot it, chop it up. You can have other editors that are overseas. Happy to help with anyone who needs help with that. But yeah, you ought you need to have content at any time that you do anything. Why else are you doing it? How else people are gonna see it? And that's content again, people want to see now is at more live events and things like that. Bob. Quick recap. First one I want to say characters.

— Four takeaways for B2B marketers

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I think characters are a new way that you can grow your brand that people haven't thought of. Think Kumar, think how you can do that for you. Will, what's number two about Vanta?

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Number two, start doing interactive and live content with prospects and customers, and then put it on YouTube. It doesn't have to go viral. You have to just get it in front of your target audience.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

Number three, make sure you jump on trends, but do it the right way. Don't just jump on trends lazily. And number four is a bet I'm making. I think live streams coming to B2B, so watch out for that.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

All right, see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Thank you so much.