Creative Mindset Podcast
I interview the most creative people in the City I'm in for the purpose of finding out if there are any common denominators in their creative process, in the hope to increase creative productivity by forming new habits and patterns.
Creative Mindset Podcast
TCM #002 - Charlotte Holly-Little
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Charlotte Holly-Little is an extremely talented artist and performer. Being a triple threat she excels in singing, dancing and acting.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:50 Do nerves ever go down during the performance season?
01:42 You should be nervous?
02:56 How do you create nerves?
04:05 How you harness your nerves?
06:39 Why are you a creative person?
08:08 What was your original motivation?
09:56 Change of plan?
12:03 How to get your focus back?
15:13 Public identity vs self view?
17:30 How do you deal with writers block?
20:51 Is there any rituals or habits that you do that elevate your performance
22:22 Do your vocal warmups get you into the right mindset every time?
23:58 How did you figure this process out
28:15 How has grief changed your outlook on the craft?
30:46 Is it worth compromising yourself for a role?
37:02 Does Method acting work?
39:32 The risks of training your subconscious?
47:42 Sense of play?
48:40 Can stress constrict the sense of play?
52:59 Has acting helped with controlling your emotions in real life?
55:41 Where do you think creative thoughts come from?
58:56 How do you get into the flow state?
Creative Mindset by Robin Mark.
SPEAKER_01Okay, episode two of the Creative Mindset podcast. Today I'm joined by Charlotte Holly Little. Hello, who's an extremely talented artist and performer. Being a triple fret, she excels at singing, dancing, and acting. And Charlotte is currently starring in a play called All We Have Time For. Charlotte, thanks for joining me on the show today.
SPEAKER_00No worries.
SPEAKER_01True, true. Alright. I guess we'll get started with the first question, talking about the play.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01With being, you know, a stage performer and you have to do that consistently over the week and months. Do the level of nerves for each show go down gradually over the performing season, or is it every day you're behind the curtain or the start of the day? How do the nerves go down basically?
SPEAKER_00For me, the nerves never really die down for each show, but honestly, that's what you want. If you're if you're not nervous before a show, it doesn't mean anything to you. The best way to deal with nerves as well is just to turn it into excitement. So if you're not experiencing that like excitement before you go on for a performance, it's not it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't mean anything to you, but you sort of almost want to create the nervousness, but it never goes down. Before each show, you're in front of a different crowd. You need that energy to be able to respond to what's happening on the stage. You don't want to just walk in being yourself, like, oh yeah, here we go, another performance.
SPEAKER_01So you believe you should be nervous before a play?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like if the level of nerves dies down, it's not gonna be a good show. Like you always need to have that. In in theatre, there's like a um a thing called like the second second show where it's just like the second show is always shit. And it's because people do the first show and they're like, Oh, sit, cool, we've done it, we've done it in front of an audience. Like, nerves, who's she? Like, you know, and they're sorted, they're settled into the play. So when you go into the second night, it's just like you're doing this mundane activity and it doesn't have the spark that you the spark that a live performance needs that is fuelled by nerves. It's fuelled by that like energy and turning something rather than nervousness into like a fueling into the scene and like the motion that a play needs to get through it. That's sort of like the life of a play, really. So yeah, the nerves really never they never go down. You can definitely feel more comfortable in the content that you're performing, and but the actual nervousness to perform and to get out there and to like tell a story, it shouldn't die down for me. I know, and if it does, I'm like, oh well, it's gonna be shit. It's over. It's a shit show, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Changing careers. Yep. You said something there though that was really interesting. You said creates the nerves. How do you create nerves?
SPEAKER_00I feel like it does naturally just happen, but hyping yourself up and getting into the character and stuff, it does create more nerves. And thinking about the fact that you're going out onto a stage and there's gonna be people watching, it naturally just just happens. If you know, like, oh, like my entire family and like my dog and cat are coming tonight, like everybody you fucking know is gonna be in that crowd. Like, it's you get nervous, but you're gonna be like, animals are allowed on the show. You sort of like create that for yourself, even because I've seen people on some nights of a performance and they're like they're nervous, but they're alright, and they're dealing with it, and then they know that their family is coming, and so they're like, Oh my god, oh my god, I've got so many people coming tonight, like I'm I'm freaking out. I don't know how I'm gonna get over this, like I'm so nervous to go out. Like, you do sort of create that for yourself in a sense.
SPEAKER_01And you reckon that does elevate your performance?
SPEAKER_00I think so, yeah. If you're but the thing is you need to be secure in what you're performing. If you haven't done your shit and you don't know your lines, you don't know you're not in your character, like yeah, then that's you know, that nerves are gonna make it worse.
SPEAKER_02How did you harness your nerves?
SPEAKER_00How long have you been able to harness your nerves for your I mean it's always it's always a process you have to go through before each performance. But the best thing that I learned probably when when I was in high school, I had this really great drama teacher, and she said to me that you just turn your nerves into excitement because you are that is what you're you're so excited about what you're doing. You get to like I mean today I had a show, I get to go and perform on stage and tell a story and do what I love and be excited about that rather than having thinking of nerves as like a dread and a self-doubt, think of it as an excitement and as a I can't wait to get out on that stage. Because if you like your mind is the most powerful thing, so if you just change your thinking towards something and how you view like a problem or a thing in your life, like you can harness it and make it your own power and yeah, in pushing you into the play, which is what I find useful in getting the energy for a performance and bringing that life to it is turning your nerves and self-doubt into excitement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you reckon even when you turn it into excitement, it still elevates it though? Like because turning you said the nerves are really important because it elevates your performance, but when you turn it into excitement, it still elevates the performance?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, it's sort of like Are the symptoms the same?
SPEAKER_01It's the symptoms are like the nervousness, like the ner and anxiety. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like physically, it's still exactly the same. It's mentally what you're changing, your thought process towards it. Physically, you still feel you get the butterflies, sometimes your hands and and legs can shake, and of course there's there's ways to deal with that. Like breathing is probably one of the best things, and and meditating through that. Um but it's just changing your perspective about what you're feeling, is what it is. So it's still like like jitters or nerves or something, but if you change a perspective of that as I'm so excited to go out, not it not into like a what if I fuck up on stage, what if I trip? Like yeah, it's just changing your perspective.
SPEAKER_01You have to try and block out that line of questioning in your mind, like a whole yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I guess don't even really block it out because that's not gonna if you're just pushing it down and you're like, don't think about that, don't think about that, you're gonna think about it. So just learning, and it takes a lot of time, it takes and like habit forming to be able to harness that and be like, no, I'm excited to go out, I'm this is why I'm nervous because I'm excited to perform and show everybody what we've done, and this is I'm not thinking those self-doubt things where I'm gonna trip up and that's why I'm nervous, like you know things.
SPEAKER_01Why do you reckon you're a creative person? Like how how does it is your family particularly got a lot of creatives in the family?
SPEAKER_00Um I think everybody has the capacity to be creative, and I think everybody is.
SPEAKER_01Any everyone can cook.
SPEAKER_00Everyone can cook. Um I think a lot of I mean, I see it in what, huh?
SPEAKER_01Ratouie.
SPEAKER_00Did you say ratatsoue? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's where it's from. I was saying it quietly just for the people listening. I didn't really hear. Ratatouille.
SPEAKER_00Ratsuie.
SPEAKER_01Remember the rat?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I know. I know what you're talking about, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Anyone can cook?
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah, pretty much, yeah. So anyone can cook. Um no, I see that down.
unknownRight that down.
SPEAKER_00Um in my family, I mean, my I have quite a few members of my family who I know they are very talented. My auntie can sing, my Nana is an incredible drawer, my mum is a like designer and a florist, and she has they all have such creative um capabilities, but it's just if whether you act on it or not, it's honestly it's all about confidence. Because I've seen people who I'm like, oh my god, I want to hear what they have to say, they're incredible, they're doing all these really cool things. Look at that drawing they did, like they've got all this creativity, and I want to know the way that their mind works, but they don't have the confidence to put themselves up and to walk the walk. So it's honestly just whether you have the courage to act on something and to do something with it.
SPEAKER_01With your pursuits, though, you know, you want to do this as a career full-time. What was your original motivation to stray from just getting a you know, a job, a nine to five?
SPEAKER_00Be an accountant, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Be an accountant in that. What was your motivation to go, no, like I actually need to do this full-time?
SPEAKER_00Um, honestly, for me, it was never an option. It was just this is what I have to do. It was just never, it was never a question. People consistently throughout my whole life were always like, oh, so what's plan B? And I'm like, that isn't so yeah, it's since I was four years old, I've always known that this is what I wanted to do. So it's it's never been like a oh look, I really love archaeology, but like I guess I gotta follow the creative part. No, it's always been this is exactly what I want to do. Of course, you can have interest in other areas, and like believe me, I do, but like, yeah, there's nothing I wouldn't do to have a career in this. Like, there's not hang on. Hold on.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna tape.
SPEAKER_00Go on 4K.
SPEAKER_01Has so your motivation you wouldn't say hasn't changed over the years. It was you were just basically born to do this. You were like at four years old, as soon as you learned how to walk and talk, you were at four. You were like, took you a while to catch up, but you eventually you were like, This is what I am doing. And it's never there's never been any other external factors or internal factors for why you need to do this. I mean like at a at a more deeper level, yeah. Why do you reckon?
SPEAKER_00That's a really good question. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Add that to the counter, come on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um hang on.
SPEAKER_01Well You said that you've always needed to do this. What do you think and that hasn't changed over the years?
SPEAKER_00I mean, no path is straight. Like you're not gonna get from A to B and just like a simple line. So of course you sort of stray, and I definitely found coming from like high school into university and like performing arts schools and things, as you sort of interact with other people that aren't just in music theatre or aren't just in performing arts, and you're like, oh, people have this whole other sort of life, and there's a whole world outside of that. And for sure, there was probably like a year or so that I sort of strayed, I'd say, from the path a little bit. I still definitely kept doing all of those things, but it just seemed How long ago was that? Probably after a couple years out of high school.
SPEAKER_02Did I know you?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um and I don't know, I just hung out with a different sort of well no, it's probably okay.
SPEAKER_01Like a gang in that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, you know how it was. You know you know about that term.
SPEAKER_01Um It was COVID, it was alright.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, honestly, during COVID, it changed a lot of things. It really did. Um and it sort of opened me up to a different world of I'm being ridiculous. Why why would I want to do acting? I need money, I need how am I gonna get a house in this economy? Like, and it just sort of seemed stupid to have these kind of dreams. And for sure I definitely went through that for a while, and then I just wasn't myself at all and didn't enjoy daily, the the daily, just didn't enjoy Yeah, who I was because that is when I'm performing and doing the things that I love, like I'm just so happy. Nothing else in the world makes me that happy. Um and when you honestly, I'm sort of glad I went through that because it made me realise, okay, no, yep, this is I was right, four year old me was correct. This is what I need to do with my life, and this is how I need to like yeah, I just I have to do this.
SPEAKER_01What got you out of that mindset? What what made you realise? So you went down a path where you're like, no, I need money, cost of living got me nervous. I can't be acting in that. What are we talking about? I mean how did you get back to nah, this is all this is all I am?
SPEAKER_00First of all, the thing that probably swayed me from the path the most was people in my life. Like hanging out with different friends and different uh influences. It definitely changed my thinking of like, oh, why am I doing this? Why aren't I living my life like them?
SPEAKER_01Would you say you were hanging out with less creative people? Or let not less creative people, but people who did not want to pursue that as a career.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or who some people who didn't view it as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who didn't view it as like I mean, most of society, to be honest, don't view it as like a value to anything.
unknownReally?
SPEAKER_00They've really sorry as well. Sorry to find out that there's a bad time to find that out.
SPEAKER_01We're in episode two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's definitely a thing to sort of go through and and come out of, but what probably made me come out of it was just I just felt didn't feel like myself, and I really felt like I'd lost myself in the other people in my life. Um and I think my mum is probably a huge like help in that area. She's always been extremely supportive, and we're very close, and she knows but I'm not myself. So she's always like a if I'm if I go and see a performance during that time of my life, if I went and saw a performance, then I came home and I'm like, what am I doing? That is what I want to do. Like that is I need to put everything into that. My mum would be like, Yeah, well, that's what you need to do, and you need to work hard, and that's what you're gonna do because I haven't seen you this happy in ages. Like, and it's it's things like that that you sort of need to really choose the people that you have in your life um and who are influencing you because you can sway, even though I've I feel like throughout that time in my life as well. Sorry, I'm rambling. I feel like it's a podcast. Please ramble.
SPEAKER_01It's very interesting. Wesley said something very in similar the last week when you finish all that.
SPEAKER_00Um definitely through that time I was still like, you know, if people are like, oh, what do you want to do? I'm like, oh yeah, I want to be a performer, I want to be an actor. But in my head, I'm like, that's so ridiculous. Who wants to do that? Like I'm a bit of a loser for wanting to do that, or I'm still I'm just a little kid. Like I'm not really like I can't do that professionally.
SPEAKER_02How old were you when you had these sports?
SPEAKER_00Probably like 18, 19.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Sort of when you're 21 now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm 21 now. Yeah. Yeah, so years ago. Um But yeah, during that time I was still like, oh yeah, I'm gonna be a performer, but I wasn't doing anything towards it. I had stopped pursuing like particular um studies and I'd stopped doing this training, I'd stopped auditioning for things. But in my head, I was like, oh no, no, no, I'm still like, I'm still doing acting, I'm still pursuing this. And then yeah, I think I saw I think I saw a couple of musical.
SPEAKER_01So you're saying your while your identity in public was still I'm gonna be a performer internally, you were like, fuck we talking about. I'm not doing that, I'm not doing that. But like you still had that as your identity, and because that was still your identity, but you knew internally that you weren't working towards that, that probably The cognitive dissonance that that caused was like horrendous.
SPEAKER_00It was a really rough time in my life, and I think for sure I put myself into like different friendships and and and people and sort of lost myself in um like I mean, I remember I used to go out quite a lot, um, and like real genuinely like I wouldn't been out of this room in years, yeah, right. No, um like I just used to spend my time doing just useless things that weren't helping work towards what I wanted to do. Um, and that genuinely was because I had this like complete cognitive dissonance of what what was going on because I'd lost faith in like yeah, I thought I had something more interesting to say.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, the cognitive dissonance, whatever word you just said.
SPEAKER_00It's horrible though, it's a horrible way to feel because it's just No 100%, especially at that like sort of coming of age at such time in your life when you come becoming an adult. Um there's so many different paths open as well. So you're like it's just so like fuck, what do I do?
SPEAKER_01I feel like it's very relatable as well. I'm sure everyone who's been who wants to pursue a creative career has been in a job, you know, or something, or something like that or something like that, where they're like, this is just a waste of time. Yeah, this is not what I want to do. Oh yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00And then yeah, there's that as well, and it's yeah, it creates a lot of just I think it's good to go through that though, because then you really understand what it what your craft means to you, and you just have this whole like for me, it's sort of almost set me more into motion because I'm like, what am I doing? I need to stop dicking around and just like this is what I want to do, so do it. And you just sort of pe need to pep talk yourself, but like you go through it, you go through the motions, but it's you know, don't regret time that you've lost or things like that, because you have to go through those things to get to a better place to where you are, yeah. To grow, yeah, to grow, to change.
SPEAKER_01Is there like you know, one thing that I feel like everyone struggles with when you're trying to do something creatively, whether it be writing or improving on a piece or something like this, and it's just not coming to you, and you're like, Christ, like help, you know, have I go for it at the moment, guys.
SPEAKER_00But um asking for a friend, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_01Maureen will be here in a couple hours, it'll be but um do you is there any way that you've realized how to get pen to paper, so to speak? Is there any way you've realized how to push through that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a method that I use that I it's a lot of fun. Um cocaine. Doesn't really matter. So um I think a lot of people do this to get through though. Uh like uh a stream of consciousness. I find that helps me so much. Um just literally forcing yourself pen to paper, don't think about it. You just you can work with a prompt um and you just write down everything that just comes to your mind, no matter what it is. And when I tell you, you can just fill up pages instantly, but you have to force yourself to not take the pen off the page. Even if it's just like a I'm writing, there is a pen on the page, and this and this, things will come. You just have to do it. You just have to start writing.
SPEAKER_01What about good things though?
SPEAKER_00Like actually like creating good content. Yeah, I it's a process, it's a whole process. I think that's personally.
SPEAKER_01You reckon you just have to go through that the whole I'm writing a pen.
SPEAKER_00Because sitting there and being like, fuck, I don't know what to write. Okay, well, that's not helping. Like, just put pen to paper. Another thing I find is like just switch it up. Go out, go sit at a cafe, and I love doing that, and just people watch ideas come to you, things come to you. Go and watch theatre, go and watch a show, go and watch movies. Not that you want to try and copy ideas, but I mean, inspiration is like everywhere, you just have to observe the world around you. You can't sit in a room and be like, fuck, I don't have any ideas. Like, like there's an entire world, like there's a world full of ideas. Um, so just switch up your perspective, switch up where you are. Music I find is super helpful. Um, and just explore that route a lot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, no, it's interesting you say switch it up because one thing Wesley kept saying last week was switching up your environment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He said that he will go to different environments which will trigger different emotions.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01I tried to do that the other day. I went to a place and just didn't know work. Just didn't know what literally I went with a friend, we just hung out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, if you're going with a friend, it's a little different. Yeah, I reckon I should probably go alone. I mean, like, even on campus at uni, I like I have areas that I know I can get study done, and I have areas that I know I can I'll just I'll just sit there and and stare at what? I don't know, but I'll just stare. Like it's not you gotta find you just gotta try everything. And yeah, for me, perspective is just the biggest, like just the key to life. Like if you if you change up your perspective on a situ don't laugh at me.
SPEAKER_01Just the key to life. Let me lay down the fucking wall on a Wednesday afternoon.
SPEAKER_00Um it is though, it's just if you can change up your perspective on something, if you can yeah, like that's just what you have to do. It it takes a lot to get through things, but not every perspective works, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, true. How about even for writing, but also for acting and singing, uh stage performance? Is there any rituals or habits that you have on the day which you believe will help elevate your performance?
SPEAKER_00Hmm. That's a good question.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate it. Um I definitely have my physical and like vocal warm-ups that are just like I just do them.
SPEAKER_01Like they're just Do you reckon though besides warming up your vocals it also gets the gears going?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's such a habit that I've created. Like I've been doing these particular warm-ups and physical warm-ups for like probably the ones I do now, I've probably been doing for like not ten years, that's a big extent, probably like five years. For the last like five years, I've been doing the same warm-ups, the same. And so my body knows like if you get into that um like habit of that, it's like, oh okay, and now we're gonna perform. So there's definitely sort of just neural pathways that you can create yourself that help you go into that performance space. For me, I definitely like even though I struggle with it a lot, but doing meditation is so important um before doing a performance or anything like that, and it just being in your body and understanding. Understanding being in tune with how you're going on that day is super important as well, and that's yeah, another thing I like to do.
SPEAKER_01Do you so there is the vocal warm-ups? That is something you do every time, and it every time it gets you into the right mindset.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Every time.
SPEAKER_00Every time.
SPEAKER_01What are your vocal warm-ups?
SPEAKER_00Don't we do them right now?
SPEAKER_01I would have got mental for just.
SPEAKER_00Um it just works through like the different sort of elements of the voice, vocal warm-ups for me. So like going through like your projection, if it's for like a play or things, and you know, it works a little differently for if you're about to go and sing on stage, or if you're about to just like do a play and you're not about to sing, but there's still um yeah, working through your projection and uh the actual anatomy of your mouth, like lifting your soft palate and understanding how yeah, you're feeling on that day. Breathing is it breathing is honestly just I mean, anybody will tell you this, breathing is just the most important thing. So die if you don't, eh? I mean, yeah, that's what they tell me. I just keep on breathing, man.
SPEAKER_01I don't believe them. Yeah. So you believe and you do the exact same vocal warm-ups every time?
SPEAKER_00Pretty much. Switch it up every now and then.
SPEAKER_01And every time your mind's your mindset and your the direction that your mind is heading in changes from beginning to end in terms of you are now in a better place to go and perform.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's a it's a process that your brain is is used to and you've created this like mindset for yourself. And if you're treating it seriously, and if you're treating it as something that you really care about, then yeah, that's how it works.
SPEAKER_01How did you figure it out?
SPEAKER_00Um definitely not straight away. I mean, it takes a while to sort of you do it a few times and then you're like, oh, this is actually this is what's working for me, and I feel just tracking how you're feeling throughout each stage of your your warm-up and saying this is working for me, you get to the end and you're like, Alright, I'm ready to go. I'm in the headspace, I'm in the yeah. I mean, definitely actors take time to themselves. A lot of people say that, like having time to yourself before a performance is just so integral, and being able to get into your mindset. You'll see a lot of actors like they're getting into their headset, they're trying to like walk past you, and you're like, Oh, like, hey Danny, how's it going? Just no response. Like, they will not talk to you, they're like, get fucked. Like you can like you could be like dying on the side of the road, they wouldn't help you, like they're just like they're in their zone.
SPEAKER_01It's where the craft comes in for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Damn. So is so, but I mean, obviously, you the vocal warm-ups and that. I will get into acting in a second. I just really want to understand.
SPEAKER_00Oh, sorry, yeah, I strayed.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. Great answer. I'm just saying, like, I'll I'll get onto acting in a second. It's just the the process, because the fact that you've like, oh yeah, I've figured it out. You said that you'll track how you feel throughout the process. Let's say you do that process for your show today, and you know exactly how you felt at each stage of the process. When you do that process on Sunday, will how you feel, or let's say how you how you when you did the process last Sunday, did you feel the exact same for each stage of the process?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, definitely not because I mean you're human.
SPEAKER_01But the end result of the feeling was the same.
SPEAKER_00Pretty much. You have your off days. You have your like nothing is getting me in this today, it's just a show, I'm just gonna have to get through it. The show must go on. That's I mean, yeah. So it doesn't work every time then. It definitely gets you to a better place.
SPEAKER_01Gets you to a better place.
SPEAKER_00But it doesn't always get you where you need to go.
SPEAKER_01Do you know that's a bar right there? Yeah, right. Do you uh do you know why sometimes it doesn't get you into that place? Was there any external factors which may have caused it not to get you there? I'm not on the day. Like Sorry.
SPEAKER_00I'm really it's definitely on the day, but one of the things about acting that you have to learn, even just when you go into class, is whatever's happening out there, you put it away, you put it to the side. That's not your problem right now. You're in this, you're dedicating your craft to this. People are here spending their time for you to perform, to create something, to create art. You need to be wholly in that. So anything that's happening outside, it doesn't exist. And I guess that's sort of one of the weird parts about acting is that you do have to compartmentalize. You've that's what I find. But no, it's that bad.
SPEAKER_01No, Wesley said something very similar, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because that's just sort of like in a healthy way, though, in a way that you make space for where you are and make space for what you're doing, not in a way that let's shove that in a box and pack it away and confront it in 30 years. Like that's not good. Um, so there's definitely drawing a fine line between it, but especially being a student in acting, when you have so much going on, assessments, family, friends, like all different things happening in your life, all these other external factors, you still need to be able to go into a rehearsal, get there on time, be there, be present, put in your best work, and not have that affect you. I mean, I've been through periods in my life when it's just like going through a huge amount of grief, and I was doing a show at the time, and of course, people still have to make exceptions for you in exceptional circumstances, but you still need to be able to put things aside and to focus on a project and what you're doing. And I think it makes you a better actor. I think it makes you being able to get into a creative mindset and a headspace. That's a good name. We should use that. Right. Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is there because I got I had a question from that, but then you touched on some right at the end. So I won't ask a question about that. But I'll go with the first one. Actually, should I go with the second one?
SPEAKER_00Decision.
SPEAKER_01True. Um you touched on it at the end there, obviously grief last year. Is there any You say you had to go through the performance, you had to do it anyway. How do you think that has changed your aspect on your outlook on the craft? The fact that you know, no matter how I feel, realistically the show does have to go on. And has that and you did it, you know, congratulations, because that's very hard. Like it wasn't do that. And like, how did you how has that changed your viewpoint on acting?
SPEAKER_00For me, it's just amplified how important it is to me. Because through that time in my life, it absolutely healed me. Like, for sure. If I didn't have that Christ, yeah, it just I just heard what you said. Um yeah, it was just it just became the most if I didn't have that thing to keep me going, and sure, there were days I remember there was one day when I just couldn't I physically couldn't get to rehearsals, like there was a huge tragedy in in our lives, and um it yeah, it takes an absolute blow.
SPEAKER_01But I remember that. Didn't I see you that day?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you saw me that day. You were there, you witnessed it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, for me it just yeah, it absolutely healed me, and to be able to experience life through a different character's eyes and understand how she was going through grief, the character that I was playing at the time, helped me for sure deal with my own circumstances in my life. But even just the art of acting and the rehearsal process, just I yeah, getting through that time in my life would have just had a a lot bigger impact on me than what it did because I had acting. That was a mushy sentence.
SPEAKER_01But um, no, I know what you mean. Well, like knowing you through that time, you've proved that you have an extremely strong character. How you handled yourself through that period and took care of everyone as well. Like it showed that you have the ability to I suppose be present, but also yeah, understand that even though emotions are flying, there is still a job that needs to be done, you know, because you did that with acting and you also did that socially.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think acting helps having a craft like that and having an outlet, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I was gonna say Do you ever sometimes to get into the mindset of a role? I'll delve into more of the acting questions now. Let's say you were having to play a character that smokes cigarettes. Okay. And you're like, well, or an even more extreme example, like a drug addict or something like this, yeah? And you've got to get into the mindset of that actor. Or sorry, of that character. Do you reckon it is worth compromising some of your so excited for this question? Do you reckon it's worth compromising parts of who you are in order to get into that role?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely amplify that across the country. No, absolutely not. So there was this Oh, I'm so excited. Um Method acting is like just absolutely, excuse my friend, it's fucked up. Like it is not, it is not something that you even need to entertain the idea of. There's there was well, I mean, there was more than two, but there was a huge two practitioners of of acting and teachers in America. Um, Stella Adler and um Strasberg, Lee Strasberg. You look so crazy.
SPEAKER_01I think Wesley mentioned Stella Stella Adler.
SPEAKER_00Adler, yeah. Yeah, so Stella Adler, I've studied in the academy over in Los Angeles, and it was just one of the best experiences of my life. But yeah, so Lee Strasberg was all about method acting. They sort of both interpreted what Stanislavsky, like sort of the godfather of drama, had said. Um, Strasbourg interpreted it like incorrectly. Sort of he was In your opinion. In the last sort of years of Stanislavsky's life, he sort of changed his view on method acting. He thought that, yeah, you need to draw from within to understand a character and take on from your own life experience. And then towards the end of his life, he was like, no, that's actually that's that's messed up, that's wrong, and it's not in any way, shape, or form a sustainable way of acting. Um, or of doing anything. Um, and so Stella Adler taught this whole idea of imagination. So she would do exercises where it starts with maybe something that the actor has reserved, has observed in their own reality and completely transforms into the imagination of the character, so that like no trace of the actor is really left in what they're working with now. But and it's just like if you're doing method acting, like if you're playing somebody who's a heroin addict and you're like, Alright, let's go try heroin, that's not gonna be good. There's actually an actor, hang on, I didn't finish that sentence. I'm so excited about this topic because I have so many opinions on it.
SPEAKER_01That's so good.
SPEAKER_00That there's uh an actor who was in, you know the movie Chopper?
SPEAKER_01Chopper.
SPEAKER_00Eric Banner plays the lead. Anyway, a big Australian movie. The guy who plays is in a I forget his name now, but he plays a heroin addict. So he got into drugs for the role. I know it's it's funny.
SPEAKER_01Did he get into drugs for the role or did he get in the role for drugs? What are we talking about here? Um and god he was a heroin addict and like not something else. I mean, I know that's pretty awful, but I mean shit, if you want to be a methodact, he's playing like a fucking serial killer. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00I feel like yeah, I was gonna I'm I was gonna say for the hundred percent, yeah, right. Personally, so um yeah, so he got into drugs for like a couple years there, and um he had to go into rehab and everything. He ended up winning awards for the role though.
SPEAKER_01See, this is what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00But there's people who are winning awards for roles for paramedics who aren't who didn't have to then get Hugh Jackman to pay for their rehab. True story.
SPEAKER_02National treasure.
SPEAKER_00Love um yeah, it's just not you go to acting school to study a sustainable way of acting. So, like I was talking about earlier, so that when you go into into a show or s or anything or any kind of performance, you have something that can get you into that headset. You have a way to like break down a character, to go through a script, like you have a system that works for you. If you don't have that, you're gonna burn out so quickly. And yeah, method acting is just like I disagree with it wholeheartedly.
SPEAKER_01So could you just explain the main difference between method acting and what that Stella her if you just had to summarize in one sentence her way of acting compared to and then one sentence for method acting?
SPEAKER_00In the most simplest terms, Stella Adler is about imagination. And for me, that's the most useful part of an actor as well, because somebody who can utilize their imagination, sorry, I'm going quickly into sentence, can access their imagination. Unstoppable actor. Lee Strasberg, who did not name names, but who did method acting, um, that's all about actually experiencing it yourself and drawing from your own very personal experiences. Like if you're in a play where, like, I don't know, you're a dad and your kid dies, you would be thinking I'm sorry, son. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I gotta do it for the role.
SPEAKER_00The difference between the mindset is that with method acting, you're thinking like, if your son is, let's call him Jerry, you're like, Jerry's dead. That's you have to think of your own specific son, and it's like Jerry is dead. You mean miserable? If you're doing a like a Broadway like sort of run where you're on there for like months on end, you're thinking every night that your kid is dead. Like that is not, it's so damaging, it's not sustainable, and it's just So you become the character basically.
SPEAKER_01There's no imagination.
SPEAKER_00It's almost like the character becomes you because it's like Yeah, it's I don't agree with that at all. Because coming from somebody who has done a play and had a lot demanded of them through a time of extreme grief, if I had drawn from the own experiences in my own life that was happening right then and there, there's no way I would have been able to have done that. Like at all, it would have been damaging to my acting and to myself as well. Like, there's just nothing good that can come of it.
SPEAKER_01So you so you say there's nothing good that can come of it. You say that it's not good for your mental health and that it's not good for your overall well-being. But does it work? No, even though even though actors have one award works, you're a shit actor, method acting is the game.
SPEAKER_00Like acting is all about observing the world around you. And if you're like, oh, I don't know how to smoke a cigarette or try it myself, watch people. Get a fake cigarette. But you don't have to you don't think that acting is about imagination and a sense of play and a sense of being able to step into somebody else's shoes and understand that. And there's people to help you through that. That's what a director's for. Method acting is just not like even you can get the same result being not using method acting, like it's just not yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. If I'm casting someone, and let's say I'm casting someone, I'm casting a character for someone who's been in the who's a Vietnam war vet, and I have an actor who was a Vietnam war vet versus someone who's never even seen Vietnam, never been in the military, any of this. I guess it would depend on the audition, like if the other one could just act better as that. But I kind of like a bit of authenticity to be honest. I quite like that.
SPEAKER_00Acting's about authenticity though. If somebody cannot, they're a bad actor, if they can't create authenticity, they have to fake the aut like fictional authenticity. Well, no. What acting is about is training your subconscious to training you to think that your subconscious is wait, hang on. I've got the sentence in my head. Training your subconscious to believe what is happening to you like is real. And if you can't do that, and if you can't tap into the imagination to do that and understand yourself, like you're not gonna be authentic and you're not gonna be creating like that's all what acting is about is the truth and showing the truth. If you have an actor and they're not giving you like sort of what you want from them, and they're not doing like a truthful performance, they're reaching for this emotion or something, like they're just not they haven't had enough experience or training or life experience. For sure, somebody who's playing it like a Vietnam vet, you want them that's why you have being an actor is you need to observe the world and have a life experience and understand uh emotions and sort of how the world works, but that's different to method acting, that's just being a well-versed human being and what you said with what you said about training your subconscious.
SPEAKER_01Do you ever worry that sometimes, especially if you do a role for long enough and you're constantly training your subconscious to perform in those ways and to experience the world like the character? Do you ever fear that maybe you could do a role and then when you're finished with that role, part of you has now part of that character? Like part of you before the character, you were a certain way, you do that role, and now you are different and you've adopted some characteristics from that character.
SPEAKER_00At its base, no. But you do take bits and pieces away from the characters, but like Yeah, like if you find some something in a character that's like I like the way they do that, or it's like, oh, it's interesting. Like you again, it's showing you a new perspective on life, and you learn that and you you do that, but acting and good acting is about being able to step out of a character as well. You get taught that you get trained in how to do that, and if you can't do that, how are you gonna play another character? How are you gonna then step into you can't keep continuing taking these characters into each other? Um so yeah, about healthy acting and understanding how to be a good and truthful actor is also being able to say Well like to be able to close the door on something, to be able to wash yourself from something and to still be yourself. No role that I have played or nothing that I could play would change me so much that I'm fundamentally different as a human being. Like there's nothing, and I don't think that's healthy. Because you're an actor, like that's like it's not like you act, you don't become. Like so you step into a role and you become a person, but in your actual life, you're not gonna become that person.
SPEAKER_01Like it's not Is that what method acting is becoming the person?
SPEAKER_00I mean, when you say it like that, you everybody becomes a person, a character when they play it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, method acting. No, but when you said you act, you don't become, that's a really good way of putting it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I mean it should look like you're become that like it's like the most most like authentic performance.
SPEAKER_01But when the cameras are off, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like you go back to being Charlotte, you're not still heroin acts.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. I mean, of course, if you're playing like in a dynamic with someone where you need to like hate their guts and backstage or like all body-body with them, that might affect sort of how you are in scene. So definitely it's while you're filming things, sometimes it's interesting to work with how you play your dynamics backstage with people.
SPEAKER_04Really?
SPEAKER_00I also don't I don't believe in that hugely. Some people help them. I mean, of course, this is all personal, like this is all your personal preference, but for me that's just what good, healthy, authentic acting is.
SPEAKER_01Wouldn't that constitute to like a bad working environment? Like, let's say you have a movie with five characters and they all hate each other. And then pre-production, all of that stuff, they all hate each other as well. Like, it's gonna be quite fun.
SPEAKER_00Well, we're not fully with Mackinac, like, calm down.
SPEAKER_01But like, I think they were pretty successful.
SPEAKER_00You're not how yeah, but I mean, you know, the backstory, like lovely women. Um like you're not gonna have yeah, all people hating each other on stage, and then you go back stage and it's like, oh okay, I have to fucking hate that person. That was another thing of method acting, is that it just doesn't work. You're not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01So in method acting, you would just have to continue hating that person.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00See what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01I've heard, like, I gave a very brief definition of method acting last time, last episode. Yeah. I just basically said if your character's a dickhead, you have to be a dickhead all the time.
SPEAKER_00Sort of. And you know what funny you say that actually, because like there's a lot of times when people have walked into audition rooms as their character. Like, if they're playing a jerk, they walk in like a jerk, and they'll like, you know, and then they go into their character and like, no. Like, if you're nobody wants to work with you if you're a jerk. Like, if you walk in being this, like, I don't know, say you're playing this like asshole footballer in like a college or something, and you walk in like that character, they're gonna be like, who the fuck does this guy think he is? Like, that's no way to win an audition room. You just come in, be yourself, and you need to be able to sit there and transform into a character. You need to be able to sit there, take a minute, and then go into what you're doing. And it's it's a skill to have, and I think it definitely amplifies the fact that sure people can act, but if you want to sustainably act and you want to get roles, like you need to learn your craft.
SPEAKER_01That's another So you played a role of a young Englishwoman last year.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01So let's just say you get cast for that role. How do you start re do you research for the role? How did you start preparing to get into that character?
SPEAKER_00I think one of the main things for me that I researched was the weather.
SPEAKER_01I could have told you that. It's shit all the time.
SPEAKER_00Well hang on, hear me out. Like, sort of I I'm I'll say meditating a lot, but meditating into that headspace of like outside it's dark and dreary. And because to create the surroundings that you're in real for yourself, that's again it's imagination. You need to imagine like if I step out that door, it's gonna be pouring the rain, it's gonna be like negative four degrees. Um how does that affect the character in the space? You know, so it's that's a lot for me, was understanding the surroundings because I mean I've never been to Europe, I've never been to London, I don't I don't know anything about that. Um, but I still played that character, and you know, I think I did a pretty good job.
SPEAKER_01You did a really good job, especially with the um accent. Yeah, it's legitimately the best English accent I've heard any Australian day. Yeah, that actually most of the time people just mimic what I say. I mean you do it all the time, uh doubt it, doubt it. But no, you I could tell I even I remember we were just chilling at work and I was like, can I see it? And then you did actually just switch into the character.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's quite that's that's another thing with accents, it can be really helpful because it can just switch you straight away into like the mindset of who you are and what you're doing, which is another thing of like yeah, the surroundings of where you are geographically. That's why it's good to be a well-rounded person who is always wanting to learn about things because like if you're playing someone who lives in a different country, to you, you have to understand how that person's gonna be feeling at that time in that country, and that yeah, so it's that's what yeah. A lot of people time people think that acting is just like, oh, you just like mess around and and do stupid shit and you know that's is that a real degree?
SPEAKER_01Like it's yeah, you need to be my degree's pretty fake. I'm not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_00Speak for yourself. You need to be like geographically, historically, like you know, you need to read, like you need to like be a very well observed and rounded person to be able to act.
SPEAKER_01If you if you could give a piece of advice to someone who wanted to start acting instead of being a well-roundered person, like what Is that is that that advice? What else, what else would you say?
SPEAKER_00Say someone's like a I mean not being like a well-roundered person, but just being a very curious person. Curious person, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But say someone who was like 18, wants to get into acting, never acted really before, but it's got a passion for it. What advice would you say in terms not not so much career, more craft? How would you what advice would you give them to make them a better actor in terms of performance?
SPEAKER_00Just start, just do it. Like it sounds crazy, but like Nike had it right, like just do it. Like it's literally the more that you only you only learn by doing. Like you can talk about a scene as much as you want, and you can talk about a character till the cows come home. But if you're not up in the space and you're not doing something and you're not performing, you're not actually gonna learn and you're not gonna get things and see how they feel in your body, and you're not really gonna understand the craft until you just do it. So get involved, get involved, do things, say yes to productions and things to being weird. The the best thing to have is a sense of play, and I think that applies to all parts of life.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting you use the term sense of play, because do you know John Cleves?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01He's the bloke from Monty Python.
SPEAKER_00Oh yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He um he he did a lecture on creativity and he used the term sense of play.
SPEAKER_00It's the same. I'm doing it I've for a unit at the moment at my in my study, I've making a play that's pretty much about that. Is that especially as you grow up and for sure probably in that period of my life when I was like, you know, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? You lose your sense of play, especially as you grow older, as you get influenced by other people. Um like I remember I used to be in drama classes and be like, this is so stupid, why am I doing this? What like you know, what am I like waving my arms around like a tree? Like, come on, like let's be real, let's get real.
SPEAKER_01Tree number three as well, not even the main tree.
SPEAKER_00Tree number three. Man, we're back in that ensemble.
SPEAKER_01Like what would you let's say you have to have a certain piece of work done in like a week, so there's stress, there's deadlines. I feel do you feel like stress can sometimes constrict the sense of play?
SPEAKER_00Personally, I find it like amplifies it.
unknownReally?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. If I'm like, if I'm like, well shit, we gotta pull out all the stops, like this is this is the last chance, last chance to get on the train. I'm like, alright, I better sprint, I better, I gotta do this, I gotta get through, and I just fuck it. I don't care what I look like, I need to get this shit done. Like personally, that helps. Deadlines help with me. Really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01How would so how do you let's say for writing, how not asking for any particular reason, but how do you ask for a friend.
SPEAKER_00That's a funny question. Um Is it bad?
SPEAKER_01Do you want to rewind it?
unknownIs it bad?
SPEAKER_00That's a shit question. Right? No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Start a new counter for that.
SPEAKER_00Fuck it, start a new counter.
SPEAKER_01Bad question, huh? Um, how about I'll I'll rewind it? Was it bad? Um, let's say this yeah.
SPEAKER_00I realize I just laugh and write for the back of my how about this yeah?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's say literally, let's just say not speaking for an example, but let's just say one of us had to start writing a screenplay in two hours. We're really we're really kind of stressed about it. We're a little stressed about it. And uh it's due and you have to Yeah, but uh you you know you've got it. You've know you've got it. But like how do you let's say you sit down with the laptop or the pen and paper. Does the sense of play has that already begun, or does that begin? Do you get into a certain framework for writing, a certain mindset, a certain bit of play before you pick up the pen, or does that start when you pick up the pen? And if so, how do you get into that sense of play?
SPEAKER_00For writing, for me, it's all about my surroundings. It's where I am.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly what Wesley said you are.
SPEAKER_00Hey, get them back in the back. Like, that's what I find. If I'm at home, I just get distracted and I'm like, you know what, it'll be fine. I can write. What am I talking about? Why am I stressed about this? You know, like it's fine. If I go to a spot where I feel like I don't know, you just have to know, like, I know my places, and I know if I go there, oh, it's gonna be so good. I'm gonna get there, I'm gonna write, and it's gonna be great, it's gonna be brilliant. I know the mood that I need to be in. I sort of forgot the question. Um, what was the question?
SPEAKER_01Do you artificially get into that mood that you need to be in?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01Let's say you're in a bad mood. No, it just happens.
SPEAKER_00Alright, I mean, there's definitely things you have to force yourself to do. Sometimes I legitimately have to force myself to smile. And I make sure there's nobody around when I do it though, because if you're just sitting there and you're like in a really pissed off mood and you just start smiling, could you be like, fuck, get the fuck out of what's she doing?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but there's definitely things.
SPEAKER_01You just at the beach?
SPEAKER_00You just see someone with like really pissed off mood and they're like it's like I see you crying now. I literally am. It's upsetting. Um no, but I mean, yeah, again, the show must go on, so you gotta have your methods and ways to get yourself into those mindsets. Like music, I think I've already said this, but music helps me a lot to get into get into a thought process I want to get into. Um uh so I guess sort of artificially create that, yeah, sure. If I'm not feeling it, and I gotta get shit done, who cares how you're feeling? Let's let's just smile, let's get it done, let's get into this mindset, let's put that song on that I know that works for me, let's get into this spot, and uh you're just gonna pen to paper because that's what you have to do. And shit comes. It's honestly you have control over your thoughts and you have control over your moods. As soon as you decide that and understand that you do, you can make anything happen in any mood, in any situation. As soon as you switch up your perspective, as soon as you're like, What the fuck am I why am I mad? What am I stop being immature? Like, let's switch it up. I need to get this done. I'm I'm happy. This is great. I like it.
SPEAKER_01Do you reckon though that acting has helped you with that? I feel like it would have the fact that you need to get into a particular mood for a particular scene.
SPEAKER_00Do you reckon it does help you for that? In that kind of thing, you are removed from it because you are that's more about being able to utilize your imagination. It's sort of it sounds a little weird, but it's sort of just like this like the character takes over you, but in a healthy sense, like in the sense that you are playing from a part that's just your imagination, and what you're seeing on stage is is that. Um, so partly because you sort of understand those feelings, but you shouldn't be sort of no, I've rambled. Hang on.
SPEAKER_01Oh no. What am I done?
SPEAKER_00It's happened again, hasn't it? Um Yeah, no, next question. I forgot. I forgot what I asked. Hang on, hang on, no, I got it, I got it, I got it.
SPEAKER_01Um I what I said Yeah, keep going.
SPEAKER_00You're done, you go.
SPEAKER_01What I said was so you've said that sometimes you even need to force yourself to smile. Yeah. You need to create the mindset. Uh what you said as well changing your perspective.
SPEAKER_00Well, just that you as soon as you hello. As soon as you like As soon as you understand that you can control your thoughts and you're in control of your feelings, your feelings are not in control of you, you can change how like how you feel about how how what mood you're in and what like how you feel about situations. You need to be talking about things. All the time.
SPEAKER_01You'd never overcome with emotion.
SPEAKER_00Oh, of course I'm overcome with emotion, and for sure sometimes you just need to sit in it and you just need to understand that. But if you're in a shit mood and it's like, fuck, I don't understand why I'm in a shit mood, and you're just being a shit p person to the people around you, like wake up. Literally, like just come on. Like, you need to understand that your feelings are not controlling you. Yeah. You you you get to decide how you feel, and nobody else can change that. You can't change people's behaviour either towards you. Something's pissed you off during the day, you can only change your response to people's behaviour. You can't change people's behaviour. So how you respond to things like Stoicism in it.
SPEAKER_01The um what you said about how you can control your emotion and to get yourself to a certain point where you can harness what you need to for the role or for writing. Where do you think creative thoughts come from? Is that another bad question?
SPEAKER_00No, I just got lost in a hang on, go again.
SPEAKER_01Just keep going, just keep going. This is the B-row, this is the B-roll. Um, you know, I'll because it's late. It's late, it's late. Alright. Where do you so you said you'll go to a place and you'll um listen to a certain type of music, you know, and you'll get into and if you're in a shit mood, you'll pretend to smile and stuff like that, you'll get your mind in the right place. But where do you think sometimes, and you said earlier in the pod, you'll have a stream of consciousness and boom boom box, and sometimes not so much the inspiration, but sometimes you'll have a stream of quality. You'll you can tell the difference between a good piece of writing and your shit that was just stream of quality, and you just got to get it down. Where do you think the good ideas come from as opposed to the stream of consciousness? How do you think you can tap in specifically to the high level of quality?
SPEAKER_00Again, a really good question. Um Good job. Our host, Robbie Marshall, there he is.
SPEAKER_01Subscribe, please. Please, I'm hungry.
SPEAKER_00That's uh I mean that's an age-old question. It's almost like where does somebody's talent come from? Like, are you born with it? Ability to understand what are good ideas and have those actual good ideas.
SPEAKER_02What do you reckon?
SPEAKER_01It's your opinion.
SPEAKER_00I know.
SPEAKER_01There's no wrong answer.
SPEAKER_00There's no wrong answer.
SPEAKER_01Um I sort of Locally luckily like the uh five guys with guns and nod in frame on your side of it. Keep it up, guys. Come on.
SPEAKER_00Um sweating. Uh I feel Is it the universe? I feel fate. I think it's just a certain conditioning energy that you can tap into.
SPEAKER_01Um frequency?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That you can sort of under that's sort of how I the feeling of it of being like, fuck, this is good. Like, I'm so smart, you know, and you're like writing and you're like, where till I read this? Oh like Oscar, come into my um, I guess that feeling is yeah, it's just like honestly, it's it's an alignment of what you're like you're doing what you should be doing. And when you get that flow going on and you get that um this energy as well, like there's a lot of uh performers and directors and practitioners of drama who all say talk about this energy specifically in a performance and the life of a performance, and I think that translates into writing as well. When you have that life and that energy, who knows what it is? Like, I don't think anybody's ever really gonna be able to like define it because I don't think you can define it, and I don't think you need to.
SPEAKER_01It's a feeling with flow state, yeah. With the flow state, have you noticed a way consciously when you've gotten into that flow state, whatever craft it's been in, have you noticed what led up to you getting into like what happened before you got into the flow state? Was there any habits or things that you did? Or I guess not a habit if it doesn't happen consistently getting into the flow state, but was there anything that happened before you got into that state that you did? Can you remember that?
SPEAKER_00I mean you have to be open to letting yourself into that state. What do you mean by that? If you're if you're just having a shit day and you're like I suck. Like, sure, like what I was talking about before, like you can change your thinking and you can change your thoughts, but like if you're forcing that too much and you're like, I just gotta get this fucking thing done. I just like you know, I just gotta get into this, I just gotta do it. Like yeah, like sometimes if you try and like really artificially create something like that, and you're not believing in yourself or what you actually can organically come up with, it's not gonna be great. Like, you're not gonna be able to get into that.
SPEAKER_01One of the main purposes of this podcast is to figure out if there is a way to tap into the flow state almost on command, and if there is a way to perform creatively, no, but certain if there's certain rituals that you can do, or like you said, meditation, I'm assuming mindfulness. Yeah, like if you know if you meditate, let's say you meditate a hundred times, how many times out of those a hundred times you get into the flow state? Not a hundred times. No, but if there is a way where you could do something a hundred times and a hundred times you would get into the flow state if that was possible?
SPEAKER_00I just don't think that that's how it works.
SPEAKER_01Maybe not I believe there may be a way of figuring out.
SPEAKER_00Am I disproving your point? Am I am I disproving your campaign?
SPEAKER_01No, I mean that's what I mean you and Wesley have both said a lot of similar things, which is very good. Like I even said in Wesley's podcast, I was like, yeah, if the next five people say the same thing, I realize, well that works.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, so obviously changing the environment is hugely important, both mentally in terms of like so it mentally in terms of getting into the actual space to do work, but also getting into the environment of being who you are, you're being a allowing yourself to do work almost like that's that's right, like that's that's an environment is extremely important for those things, and that's what I mean by like opening yourself up to it and understanding that you can do this and you are capable.
SPEAKER_00If you're somebody who's looking to get into this, you just have to do it. And again, with like being able to control your thoughts or at least understand them, just stop doubting yourself because everybody, as I said at the beginning, has the capacity to be creative, you just have to do something about it. So, like to be able to get yourself into that sort of flow state and to be creative, you just have you need to stop judging yourself. That's yeah, put write that down. Number one thing, you need to stop I ain't got Ben.
SPEAKER_01We know it film this, right?
SPEAKER_00Tell me in the back of that.
SPEAKER_01Or stave.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, like you just you need to you just do shit. Like you stop judging yourself. It's the same in acting. You cannot play a character if you judge them. That is the biggest thing. Like, if you it's and it's in life as well. Like, if you're judging a friend, I'm sorry, you're a shit friend. Like, yeah, you like that's how you you need to go through your life. I mean, don't take my advice if you don't want to, but like taking the judgment out of it.
SPEAKER_01Only a Hollywood actress multi-millionaire commodity.
SPEAKER_00But that's that's the same thing of like sense of play, it comes from a place of being able to take away judgment, being able to take away like not judging yourself for what you do. Like, if you're like you can't have a sense of play if you're like fuck, what if I look stupid doing that? And sure, if you're like a high school student and you're going through like all of that shit that you go through in high school, we've all been there. Like, it's hard, it's definitely hard, and it's it's a journey that you have to go through. It's not a straight line, as I said at the start as well. But you cannot do you cannot step into creative work if you were judging yourself, and or if you were judging the people around you or the work that you're gonna produce. Produce work to produce work, not to like judge yourself or to be the best. You just produce work.
SPEAKER_01What you said about how there needs to be no judgment to enter that sense of play. I think that's fucking bang on.
SPEAKER_00I think it's the most important thing to take with you through life. Unfortunately, something that I learned a little bit too late. Like I learned it now, so Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, I mean, I feel like I've only learned that in the last couple years, and I'm like, damn, that would have been really helpful if when I was younger to not because I think there's so many exercises in in class and things that I would just not be able to even focus on because I was judging myself so hard, either on like you look fucking dumb when you do that, you don't look good when you do that, you can't do that. Um, what other people think of you, but why would you do that? Because you're not you're not gonna be the best.
SPEAKER_01So, what is your internal dialogue? Instead of you talking shit about yourself, what is your internal dialogue while you're doing those exercises?
SPEAKER_00You're just like, can't wait to see what I create. Like, it's just it's a total switch up, and I think it's a calming of anxieties, and again, what I was talking about with nervousness, turning that into an excitement. It's the same thing. Um, of just taking that like that judgment and just being like, nah, let's just fucking create. I think it's definitely something that comes with like I guess experience and sort of as you step into like adulthood a bit more, and it's just like nobody gives a fuck what you look like. If you're doing something weird in in drama class, like I mean, especially in drama class, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Come on now, right?
SPEAKER_00You're with theater kids. Let's get real. Let's let's think about the people who are.
SPEAKER_01If you're doing weird shit in drama class, I don't think you should be in drama class.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, exactly. And it's yeah, like you just uh I think that I think that is the best the best thing to keep in mind for like creativity and finding that flow is sense of play, which you can create, you just no judgment of yourself and just be authentic. Wiser words hard, and a way to do that is through meditation and is through practice and is through respecting yourself as an artist, no matter at what level that you are at, and understanding that you have a story to tell and you have a right to tell it, and there is a place for you, and I think that's a lot of what society today doesn't create places for people to tell stories and doesn't create places for people to be creative. There's a whole different focus, there's like a not a value on the arts, and it's so important.
SPEAKER_01Probably have to call it there. Call it there on time. No, I really appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_00Thanks.
SPEAKER_01You've given uh if you want to wipe the tears away real quick, Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00I think the lights are getting to me.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I really appreciate the answers. You gave some phenomenal It's hard to talk when you've literally put tears in your eye.
SPEAKER_00Just give it a quick you make me laugh, and then you know, like true.
SPEAKER_01Alright, but yeah, I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00I'm not crying to people listening. I'm not sitting here bowling.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I really appreciate it. Some phenomenal answers.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for your good uh questions and making me think.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Well yeah, I hope I stayed on one train of thought at least once. 100%.
SPEAKER_01No, I got some fucking really good answers from that. Like you've definitely helped me creatively from that. 100%.
SPEAKER_04Cheers.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, there's a point. Appreciate it. What? Hey, but no, I um if you have any questions for Charlotte or any future guests, please leave them in the comment section. Please leave please please leave them in the comment section. I'll definitely get to them and ask them the future questions.
SPEAKER_00Give me a call. FaceTime me. Let's have a chat.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, we'll probably leave it there. Charlotte, thank you so much for coming.
SPEAKER_00No worries.
SPEAKER_01I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Good night.
SPEAKER_01And cut.