Creative Mindset Podcast
I interview the most creative people in the City I'm in for the purpose of finding out if there are any common denominators in their creative process, in the hope to increase creative productivity by forming new habits and patterns.
Creative Mindset Podcast
TCM #003 - Oliver Johnson
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Today my guest is Oliver Johnson, an award winning filmmaker who currently has two projects in development at his production company Escapades film productions and is slated to direct a film later in the year
Oliver Johnson’s Socials:
@Olliejtj
@escapadesfilmsproductions
00:00 Intro
01:13 What was the most challenging aspect of working on Criminal Helpline?
07:26 What is you plan for Escapades Film Productions the rest of the year?
15:15 What was your favourite moment of working on Criminal Helpline?
21:38 What made you want to be an artist?
30:35 How were you perceived when you told people you want to be a Filmmaker?
35:12 What do you want people to feel when watching your films?
40:39 How do your curate your music playlist that your write screenplays to?
44:25 Do you go to different locations while writing to trigger different creative responses?
45:55 Where do you write?
46:29 Do you plan out the entire story before you start writing a screenplay?
47:58 How do you get back into the headspace to continue writing an emotional scene on a different day?
51:14 Do you have any rituals or habits to get you out of writers block?
53:47 How do you get into a flow state?
58:09 Tips for Networking?
1:01:48 Special mention to the cast and crew of Criminal Helpline
And how did you develop this mindset?
SPEAKER_00No idea. It just happened. It just happened one day, Robbie.
SPEAKER_01Oh. Welcome back to another episode of the Creative Mindset Podcast. Finally back after two years. I have done other episodes in the last two years, but none of them ever made it there. For the love of Christ, this one will. My guest today is an award-winning filmmaker, Oliver Johnson, who uh has currently got two scripts in development right now and is slated to direct later this year. Oli, thank you for joining me.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me, Broski. It's so cool to be here.
SPEAKER_01I know we're back. We're back at the PS Arts. Shout out to the PS Arts Face. Shout out to PS Artsface. Where we made our film Criminal Helpline last year. Yeah, man. I'll start with a criminal helpline question. Yeah, good. So I'm going to talk a bit about criminal helpline, a little bit of escapades. Yeah. But then after that, I just want to focus on you. As I'm very fortunate that you're one of my best friends and you're also the best screenwriter I know. And I am I need help. I need help. I need help with screenwriting. Writing the feature, I need some help. So thanks, man. We'll start with helpline. Yeah. What was the most challenging thing about working on Helpline?
SPEAKER_00Finding a location. It like that was the ultimate thing. Yeah. Because the first time I read the screenplay for it and made up my mind that part of the project as producer, I knew that, okay, what's like what is this warehouse going to be? At first, that was kind of in my head, like finding a warehouse. But I I knew from you that you wanted to film in Frio. And then it was by just Googling places online, and like I think I Googled spaces to film in Fremantle, and this place came up. So as if you've watched him, we are at the PS Arts Space in Fremantle, and it's a gallery, like, but it's used so beautifully. So we had a day where we just like drove around Frio going to places and locations and just kind of like rocking up, being like, hey, we're filmmakers, we want to yeah, like help us. Like we want to film here. Can this happen? Here's our budget, you know? And so this place was our first spot on that day. But the owner wasn't here. And then I got his contact, and then on a separate day, I came back solo because you're at work, got to be in the space, filmed it, met the owner who's lovely. And on that day, all I was thinking was, please say yes, Robbie. Please say yes. Because I was just like, this place is so perfect. And but also going back to the question of like hardest thing, I knew I wanted a place where everything's kind of here. A bathroom is close by, it's indoors, there's a servo close by, there's cafes close by. It's not a situation where we're filming in the middle of nowhere for our first big production. So it ticked all the boxes off.
SPEAKER_01What advice would you give to someone then if someone was struggling with finding or locking in a location for a film? What advice could you give them?
SPEAKER_00I would say get creative and think about alternatives to the vision being able to evolve. Also, that was a really great thing about working with you is that I know that your original location in mind for this was very different to this. And being on site, a part of me was like, this looks so cool. Logistically, I was like, how are we gonna pull this off? But also, it just wasn't available. And so being able to reframe and go, well, what if we found an art gallery? Because reading your script and picturing it being shot at an art gallery doesn't quite make sense on the page. But investigating, researching, doing the scouting, and then actually coming to this place and going, Well, maybe this could happen. Because if somebody's like, No, it has to be in this spot, it has to be here. That's a lot of pressure, especially if they're somebody. Well, yeah, saying no, but also like if you're like how we were, and that is first true production outside of our degrees, like be kind to yourself and just get as cozy as possible. That that's my two cents on it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, remember that time we went we went to a place and it was we won't say what place it was, but it was it was literally perfect. Do you remember that place that we kind of like, yeah? And we were looking around and we were like, oh my goodness, we can shoot this scene over here, this scene over here, this is amazing. We found the reception desk. It was like a zombie land. Do you remember? It was a ghost town, there's no one. It was great, yeah. And we we found the receptionists and we were like, can we film on these dates? And they said, Yeah, we got these dates free. We're like, let's go. And then they were like, it'll be $8,000. And we were like, for one day, Robbie. For one day, for one day, eight thousand dollars, and it wasn't being used. It was like you're going to make $0,000.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in that scenario, I would say baby steps, like absolutely baby steps, being kind to yourself, and again, like that location, who knows, could happen in five to ten years when we have more. I film thereafter. Exactly, exactly. Like, I think just being able to evolve the vision and being able to shoot in ways where you're just taking care of yourself. And also, my hot take on filmmaking in Australia, we are not people where we believe in a means to an end. If you put your crew and your colleagues through strife, even if the film turns out amazing, we're not gonna give a shit. Australians don't give a shit. Like, we want to feel safe, we want to have the shoulders down. But also, something that you told me that has always stayed with me is first time that I met Robbie, I was asking him what is the biggest culture change from Britain to Australia. And he told me that British people talk rude to your face, Aussies talk rude to your back. Yeah, and it's so true. I can't tell you the amount of I mean, forget about filmmaking, just workplaces I've I've been a part of where they will never tell you to your face what they're actually thinking and what's going on if it's negative, and so it's being able to make it a process of a project as swift and comfortable and just accessible as possible, just to begin your career in the first two years at least, I think is a great way to go.
SPEAKER_01No, I've I couldn't agree more, bro. Like, even just like the the crew in general that we got for this film, we we prioritized like obviously they're excellent at what their role is, but also just a calm person, just a good vibe, just a good time onset, you know.
SPEAKER_00Even though we were able to pay them, it wasn't anything sufficient or industry standard. Yeah, and I'm very aware that like we are asking people to volunteer their time here, and filmmaking is a a job where you're gonna be spending a lot of hours away from family or loved ones, or even just your own time just being alone. And so it's like when there's the the reality of that combined with the fact that no one's being properly paid, just make it as cozy as possible. As cozy as possible, because then it's just it makes life that little bit more easier.
SPEAKER_01Now that helpline's done, and that's that's in the can and we submitted it to festivals already, and it's going pretty good so far. What is the plan for escapade films the rest of the year? Like, I know I mentioned in the intro you already have some work in development, but what would be your ideal goal for March 2027? Next year, 2027, March 2027, what do you want to have accomplished with escapades?
SPEAKER_00By March next year, I would love to have three short films that have completed each stage of the production process. So currently, right now, I've got two where I'm attached as producer, and then one where I'll be uh directing as well as writing. Last year I spent a lot of my time on film sets because I wanted to meet more people and also break myself in, become a better filmmaker, become a better colleague on set, and just through experiences. And I'm fortunate enough to be in a spot where a lot of these roles were given to me because people through word of mouth heard about me and reached out, or they had somebody pull out and go, Oh, well, I know someone called Ollie and he can help out here. So I was really blessed to be in that spot, and so for 2026, it's kind of a goal of mine to still stay busy, but in a way where it's for myself. And so since the end of 2024, I've started my own company, Escapades, and a big part of that was because I really want to own my intellectual property. That was what I wanted to do going into it because I had an experience where I realized if I wasn't involved in it from a production standpoint, a business standpoint, somebody had the opportunity to take this project that I was working on and do whatever they wanted with it. Thankfully that didn't happen, but it did scare me in a good way of like where I am in life right now and just the place of being in Perth and Australia. I need to be involved in not just directing and writing. Yeah, because directing and writing is my ultimate love in filmmaking. It's what fuels me, it's what drives me. I I see them as a combined thing because writing it allows me to be alone and I love that part of who I am. And then directing is the complete contrast. I get to be around people, but I also love that and what that brings out in me. I I love the duality of both of those roles. It was just a perfect alignment where A, I became your friend, I met you, worked with you, and then reading that script, I was like, I can do this. Like, I I know how to produce this. This is something so safe. It's not in the wilderness, it's not um got a lot of layers or changing locations. It's kind of like I can pull this off at the time. And so at the time, I was like, I can either keep on banging my head against a wall, waiting to be inspired, or just stay busy in a different way. And I didn't know it at the time that I was doing this, but in retrospect, I can see that it was just amazing boot camp for going forward. And even right now with 2026, with these three short films, one I'll be directing, the other two I'm producing. It's all, I guess, just boot camp to level up and understand more and more about what this industry requires of people, why people succeed and why they don't. An element to it obviously is just dumb luck. It's being in the right place at the right time. And uh a saying that I heard Anthony Mackey um give recently was, and it only occurred to him recently, is that success isn't earned, it's a given. Somebody can work for four decades in industry and then achieve success. And it's not because what they were doing was wrong or they weren't working hard, it's just because on one day someone saw them and said you. And so on the day that happens, you're in a position where you uh know what you want because you know yourself, and it's easier to navigate difficult situations. With you and these two other filmmakers that I'm I'm working with, it's that same principle of yes, the screenplay appeals to me, yes, um, I see it being achievable. Also, a key thing as well is that when I read your script, a thing that I realize that I've I'm now using on these two other projects is this is a film I don't want to direct. It's a film I want to watch. And I and my two sense is that's a really good attitude to have as a producer or anyone on a film set who's a HOD. I don't like encountering attitudes from anyone on set where they are secretly trying to direct the film, and you have a convo with them and you go, I think you want to direct this, but you're not the director. That person is, and you have to respect that. And so, from that script, I really enjoyed that feeling of like this doesn't align with me from my directing standpoint. However, I really want to watch this, like this is my humor. I want to see this movie, I want to see this story, and with these two projects right now, that same feeling of like, I'm not the one to direct this, but I am the one who wants to watch it, and I know what can happen to bring it to life in that in that way. And then on a in a in a personal level, criminal helpline was an amazing experience that I'm really grateful for. And I've had a lot of time to reflect on that, like why this? Because it's it's not my first film, it's not the first thing I've tried to produce or or make myself outside of school. So I'm like, why what why this? And something that occurred to me a few months ago is when I first met you, I first met you as a colleague. I didn't meet you as a stranger, I didn't meet you as a friend. We didn't know each other yet. But the first time we interacted was just working together. Yeah, on my rock. On my rock, shout out Don. Shout out Don Lonzo, but also we're working in roles where it's not the top of the mountain. Those roles we had on My Rock, they're not what fuels us. And so on that shoot, I got to see you as a colleague in a way where I was like, oh damn, this guy's such a team player. This guy's really giving his all. And in moments of stress or high pressure, he's so lovely. It's so easy. It's so easy to talk to him, it's so easy to be around him. There's zero ego in like, well, who the fuck are you? And people have people have talked to me about that, both in film and just in other workplaces. There's that attitude of like, well, if you don't have one attached to your name, get the hell away from me. I'm really applying that to everything I do, and escapades has become a part of that. Like, I don't produce for outside of my company because producing is like bronze on the list of things that I love, but also it's a very demanding job, and so I'm like, if I'm doing a job that requires you to give you all, I don't want to do it and get cast aside. It's like I I want to be able to have involvement and I want to have a say and just be part of the team, and so being doing that for my company, I can ensure that I'm having that comfort, and then I'm in a position where I can invite people in and make sure that they're also comfortable too.
SPEAKER_01I guess to round out the helpline stuff, yeah. What was the most fun? Like, what was the what was your most favorite moment? Could be pre-production, production, post-production. Like, what was the thing? What was the most fun you had?
SPEAKER_00Honestly, like the actual filming of it. Yeah, like just being here on set with everyone. I had so much fun walking around offering people grapes. Only on the set in watermelon. It's it's honestly my belief. Like, have have some fruit on set, offer it to people, have some it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Some of you're gonna set up it, and we've been on sets in the desert. I don't want to set and I'm like, you know, I probably haven't eaten anything in a while. Like, I'm kind of you know locked in. Yeah. And then I'll just I'll just turn around and it's just Ollie with grapes. It's like, do you want a grape? Do you want a soft drink?
SPEAKER_00But also I I have to give shout-outs to um uh I want to say her surname correct. Uh Emma Thompson. I'm pretty sure Thompson is her surname, but she was the producer of an amazing short film I worked on called Open. And on that set, it was in a park, it was in the elements, but I would see her just going around to people offering food and going around and reshuffling the camping chairs so that they're closer to the crew or car so they can feel comfortable to sit down. And so I would see her doing that and also her crew who helping her out do it. And I was like, Oh, I want I want to do that, like because what she's doing and going out of her way doing is it's making everyone's set feel feel comfortable and like I want you here. It's like the little things, yeah, yeah. And again, on that set, like people are volunteering their time, and so it's like it's tangible ways to show people you care about what they're doing for you. Yeah, appreciate it. Um, yeah, because everyone can write a message or ver or verbalize it, but actually just showing it in like little ways where no one asks for it, it's it's fantastic. But also, people naturally, I find in our industry, just entertainment industry in general, are very shy. And so when they are either hungry, thirsty, or in a position where they want to get comfy, they feel normally they can't verbalize that because it's like, oh, I'm being a diva, I'm I'm I'm not being a team player, and so it's like just being able to read the room and go, I think if I bring that chair over there and just like do a little walk around with some food, people are gonna take some because it just like creates a little home and environment. So that was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01It was one of my favorite things, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So and even like we would do um late night shoots, and on like most days it would wrap it around like either 1.30, maybe two, and just on the drive home, I would just be so happy, and I'd be like, I can't wait to go back tomorrow. And like that's not a thing that always happens in any industry you're working in. And so, like, I would just be very in the moment going like this is a really special thing that's happening right now. Like, allow it to soak in, enjoy it, but then also have the speed that a standard going forward because it doesn't have to be a blip.
SPEAKER_01Did you have the same thing where you felt like the days blurred into one?
SPEAKER_00A little, a little, yeah. And like even crazy things like day one, I was so awake, like so alert. Day two, for whatever reason, like an hour in, I was like, oh my god, I'm I think I'm about to like fall asleep. Yeah, I was just so tired. Yeah, but then yeah, day three and four, I was after the races again. Like it was fascinating, like working through like I guess your levels of of tiredness. But yeah, no, like they all all kind of blurred together in the end. Yeah, but it was yeah, it was and I think I think that's why also I made sure to in the moment be present and sink it in, because I was like, this isn't gonna last, and this is gonna the film's gonna end, and so it's like just really enjoy this, and then know going forward this can happen again if you do the these same steps and just like ensure that it being comfy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this set was unreal. Like, I was so locked in. There are a lot of moments, even during pre-production, bro. There's a lot of moments where I don't remember it, and then I'll see a photo or a video, or someone will be like, Oh Robbie, remember when you did this? And I'll be like, No, but yeah, it's just kind of interesting how I think we just did so much prep that when we got to set, also we had like the best crew in the world, so that when we got here, it was just ticking boxes, you know what I mean? Very little went wrong. We were lucky enough to have two practice days on set as well, which I feel like you just never really get on short films. It's sort of just you turn up to the location on the day and you're like, all right, let's figure this out. But we were like, no, let's just try and plan as much as possible beforehand, and I think it massively just helped. Maybe we helped with morale as well, because it just takes a bit of the stress off because it's like we're not doing anything new here. We're just we've rehearsed this, we may have done this a hundred times at a different location, we're just doing it here for the first time. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00A thousand percent, like having those abilities to demystify everything and have an opportunity where the crew can just meet each other, go, oh, this is where we're filming, and this is where my station will be, and this is where the blocking will happen. Just and then even like bringing like um on our test shoot day where everybody just brought everything here, even though filming wasn't happening, it's like just understanding what's going to be expected of you. It just makes things like learning space as well. Yeah, and then I think just the fact that we started pre-production so ahead so ahead of the actual filming, and just in a place where you know, weekly meetings and then like reaching out to to crew way ahead of time, and so it's like they know their availability, they know what what's expected of them. Like it's not your on set, and then you go, Oh hey, can you come here tomorrow? It's like, well, well geez, like I I'd love to, but I've got a life and an whole planner. It's like it's like damn, you know what I mean? So it's like avoiding things like that. It's just like I'm very proud that we did that work.
SPEAKER_01For sure. It's a loud noise. It's a loud noise, you sound like um, I guess I'll get into more of you then. Oh, yeah, sure. What made you want to be an artist in the first place? You could have been anything, Oli. Ollie, you're 6'4 and built like a brick shit house. You could have been anything you wanted to do. Um like you could have it could have been you're smart as dick, you could have been in the offices, you could have been out in the fields. What made you go? I'm To be a filmmaker, which is like chances of success, very niche, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00It's I ran out of plan and I and I wasn't good at 25. Let's do this. It's it's it's Hollywood or bust people. It really is. Like growing up, I just always loved movies, and I can psychoanalyse that, but just the fact is I just always have loved movies and watching TV shows.
SPEAKER_01And was it something from an early age that you always wanted to do? Or was it did you get to a point in your life where you're like, oh, what about movies?
SPEAKER_00I had no idea it was even an option. And I growing up, I knew about actors, and I think because Spielberg is a household name, I knew about him. But if I wanted to like being a kid, I a part of me wanted to be involved, but I was, oh well, that must mean being an actor. Like, because just the idea that people were behind the camera didn't even occur to me. And so growing up, it was more just like I'd watch it because I I just enjoyed watching it.
SPEAKER_02What the fuck?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's creepy as hell. You reckon? Hands down the dog. Sounded like the spiders from Harry Potter. Oh yeah. I don't know if the quite agree. One of the things, one of the challenges that this podcast will face going forward is that we will be filming at locations instead of a studio. So we'll be filming at locations. We'll try and film at locations that actually have some kind of meaning to the person I'm into.
SPEAKER_00Gorilla style filming. Gorilla Star Filming. I would do this. I would do it.
SPEAKER_01It's gonna be time that happens.
SPEAKER_00But I do but yeah, so a lot of it was just watching because I I enjoyed watching. But then like being transparent, like in year six, I had a friend who was really into creative writing. And one day she came to school and told me that she had started writing a novel, and that really blew me away. I was like, oh my god, that sounds so cool, like amazing, and like both of us were huge Harry Potter fans, and so like we would just spend like hours during lunch and recess just like talking about the story of Harry Potter and like what again, like it was all from a fan perspective, but in retrospect, I'm like, oh, we were kind of like studying it, we were like breaking it down and looking at story and structure. And so when she told me that she was writing a novel, I was super impressed. And like I still remember that the novel, it was about a high school shooting, and the main character was 18, and her boyfriend, her ex-boyfriend was yeah, he was the shooter, and it was like a caught, and basically we know as the reader that she was not involved in the shooting, but she knew about it and chose to do nothing to stop it, and so like it was a really juicy drama, and I was like, oh my god. And so, like, we will and like also we we went to like Catholic um primary school, and so and so we would just like be in line to go to church, and like for anyone who hasn't been to church uh growing up in school, it takes forever to get into a church, and so we would just spend like half an hour in this line when you're going to church school shooting, it would totally say it was all for a place of like oh like maybe there's this character and this person and like just all these things, and like just every week during like lunch.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you're talking about this going to church out of school, right? Right for real. The priest I must have been nervous. I'm not kidding. And like information with these two firms, gotta get this out of the way.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, and then just one day off the cuff, she just told me, why don't you start writing as well? And that just blew my mind. It just never occurred to me. It never occurred to me to do it. And from that day, I've been writing. What insane origin stories, right? It's so random, it's so crazy, but like it just the idea of writing just never occurred to me because being transparent, I'm not a big reader, and growing up, I wasn't like and like Harry Potter was my true introduction to reading properly. And so at the time, you know, hearing writing, but so like figuring out, oh, I enjoy telling stories and making up stories, I kind of saw it as oh, that must mean I want to be a novelist. And so for a good two years, maybe three years, I was a bit lost because I was like, okay, I enjoy writing, I enjoy creating stories, creating characters, creating scenarios. And in those three years, I did write a book, but I was like, like something's off. Like I'm not really enjoying this, but it's weird because I do enjoy this. Like I I I couldn't figure out what it was. And then when I was 14, my family and I moved to Vietnam, and while over there, and while and while over there, I just found myself like I always watch movies, but this but this was like me watching movies after having a Red Bull. Like I would just constantly watch movies all the time, and I started like going, like researching, okay, what's the top 100 movies of all time, and I would just watch them and I would go, do I agree, do I not agree? In the midst of all of this, I discovered a director called Sophia Coppola, and I heard about this movie she made called Lost in Translation, and it just like hearing about it fascinated me, and I watched that movie amongst all these other movies, and that was the moment where I was like, Oh, I want to be a filmmaker. Watching that movie and like the ending of that movie, it just clicked to me of like this is it, like, this is what I want to do. Because again, growing up, I had no idea that people creatively behind the works existed, and actually, actually, no, that's all bullshit. So the actual introduction We got him, sorry, sorry, okay, uh, brain blast. So, what happened was right before going to Vietnam, um, Django Unchained came out, and I remember to promote it, Quentin Tarantino went on Graham Norton, and I was in like a different spot in the house, and my mum like called me out. She was like, Ollie, come here, come here, come here. And she was like, This guy on TV, his name's Quentin Tarantino, and back when your dad and I were in our 30s, um, he made a movie called Pulp Fiction. And so, like, and like on on the interview, he was doing that dance that him and uh sorry, that John Travolta and Uma Thurman do in in the movie. And then kind of like back in those days, yeah, that twist, like the Jack Robbins yeah, twist. And back in those days, I'm sure it still happens, but definitely back in those days, if a film was coming out and either it was part of a franchise or like an actor was involved in it, they would show movies done by these same people in the build-up to it to kind of like help promote it and get excited about it. And I think either that night or a week later, I can't remember what, but they were showing pop fiction and Jackie Brown. And my mum told me you should watch pop fiction. And so a week later I watched it, and I was like, oh, this is cool, like cool movie, haven't seen anything like this. But then right after, I don't know at the time, they show Jackie Brown, and Jackie Brown is a movie that Tarantino made after pop fiction, and it's still my favorite of his. And just watching that again blew me away because I was like, Oh, he's a he's a screenwriter, and just like seeing how also a director made these two movies that, in my opinion, are very different types of movies. Like, that just that was the first domino that kind of got knocked down of like, oh, like this is a possibility. So then I think that was the trigger to me, like investigating movies and like watching them a lot, but then it was lost in translation by Sophia Coppola. That was the movie that made me go, oh, I want to do this. Like, this isn't a hobby anymore. Like, I really want to do this.
SPEAKER_01How were you perceived when you came out and was like, I want to be a filmmaker?
SPEAKER_00It was funny because my parents were never opposed to me being a filmmaker, it was more the types of movies that I I wanted to make and like what and like where the inspiration was coming from. And what I mean by that is, yeah, you've got to elaborate on that. So, what I mean by that is I'm really inspired by independent cinema and art house and filmmakers where you can see a certain style to them, and also a year after watching um a lot of Sophia Copler's films, I started watching David Lynch's movies, and through that I was like, and to this day, he he's my favorite filmmaker. I'm in awe of the world he creates and the story he creates, but also just his his career path and what that looked like, and how it was a very intentional career path, and it was one where he was still able to financially take care of himself while making what he wanted to make. And so when I told my parents that I wanted to be a filmmaker, I told them by the time I realized that David Lynch was my favourite filmmaker, and when I told them, they were like, Oh my god, like what movies do you want to make? And I told them, Oh, I want to make movies like David Lynch, and they went, Oh my fucking god. Like, and like for years we had arguments about it, yeah, because they were like they were their own mini Hollywood of like where's the money? Like, where's the audience? Where's the box office? Like, how is this a career path? And to this day, my like mum especially wants me to like direct Transformers and like make movies like that. And like first two, I love, you know what I mean? Uh and again, if if everything aligns, like I'm not against that world whatsoever. I'm not like, oh, this has to be my camp, but it's more like I really just want to express myself in a certain way, and that clicked for me very early on. Like, yes, I want to be a filmmaker, but I want to find out what my voice is and what that means in terms of just a career path for myself. And like it's always been a bit in flux, and I guess like the most random thing I've discovered is like, so just as an audience member, I'm a huge horror buff. I love horror movies. Ever since being a teenager, I've loved watching them. But throughout the past 10 years, I'd say, I've discovered, oh, I don't actually want to direct one or even write one. Just love watching them? Yeah, just love watching them. And I think figuring out also like what is my voice as a director. And who knows, maybe in 10 years, 20 years, I'll be directing a horror film. But right now, I'm like, oh, like I think this is my voice because I'm really into telling stories about this and the ways I want to tell them. And so it it was funny, and like even now it's kind of evened out a little bit where I'm kind of in the middle. Like, I do enjoy telling stories where I know there's an audience for them, and I know that I can see the marketability and I guess like the the possible reach it can have, while at the same time being like, oh, I I want to have some fun here. And even like going back to helpline for a second, what I really got excited about in that script was this is a comedy shot in black and white, and the aspect ratio, and like having the red phone, and just like I was like, damn, like I haven't really seen any art house comedies that are actually funny. Like it's it's hard to it's hard to strike that balance and find that tone. And reading the script, I was like, I think that I think it can happen. And so that really inspired me of like, okay, I'm part of a movie where I'm like, I I know people will enjoy this, but then on a personal level, I'm like, oh, like this isn't like two, three cameras locked off and filming like like see what happens. Like it's just three cameras locked off. It's not a podcast, like I I it feels like an actual cinematic experience, and so I I really love that. Yeah, and just right now for me, both in every facet of directing, writing, producing, I'm just after projects where it's like striking that balance of like, yes, you're accommodating to the marketplace, but you're also trying to disrupt it and give it just something fresh and interesting.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, my next question was gonna be with all the movies, you know, you've made Mystery Me, now Criminal Helpline, you've got a few more in the pipeline coming up. But what do you want to make the audience feel while they're watching your films?
SPEAKER_00I I want to make them feel connected to the story and the characters. Okay. Because for me, what I love about filmmaking and just stories in general is always dependent on what the film it is. But you can have that duality where you're watching somebody on screen and you go, oh fuck, that's me. Like that is me. Or at the same time going, Oh, I wish that was me. Like you're seeing versions of life where it's like you're able to relate to it while also aspiring to it. Or then, even more fascinatingly, you can go, oh, now I know what not to do. And that's also where I think stories, even predating filmmaking, has been so important to human beings. You're able to just get informed and know, oh damn, like if I choose this pathway, it could lead to this. Or if I choose this pathway, it could lead to that. Like just like what I find fascinating is a filmmaker that I love called Rose McGowan. She made a short film over 10 years ago where it's set in the 60s and it's about a teenage girl, probably 16, and she encounters a handsome man who sorry to ruin it, he turns out out to be a psychopath and he wants to murder her. And it ends with him doing that, and it happens off screen. And when he returns to screen, he says, I just wanted to know what what it felt like, and that's bone chilling. And I saw um uh a screening that she attended that was filmed and put on YouTube where it's like a QA that happened in the audience, and one of the people in the audience was in her 70s, and she enjoyed the film, and she was like, you know, I was practically this main character growing up. Like that was my room. Wait, which one? That was my like the person in like in the crowd, like um talking to her. No, like which character which character was she? The main character. Uh the character. No, no, no, the girl, the girl, sorry. The girl. Exposed himself in the crowd. We got him. So she was like, you know, that was my house, I wore her clothing, like, you know, like it was so similar to what her upbringing was. And she was like, what's fascinating about watching the short film for her was when she was growing up and that age, nobody knew what a psychopath was. Nobody knew that word or that people like that existed. But they've always existed. Ever since in the 70s, people just didn't talk about it. You know what I mean? And so what this person in the audience was saying was what broke her heart was with this character, similar to her growing up, she had no idea. No idea what was in store. The warning signs, what to look out for. And so what I find powerful about stories, even positive, happy ones, is that you get to become better informed about the world and humanity. And yes, that there's parts that you'll connect with and relate to, but then others that you'll be exposed to, and you can go, like, damn, this is what I can best position myself to. And even typically in life in general, when you're having an experience that is negative or unpleasant, typically it's not a shock, it's more a thing of I now have to act on this. Like knowing that someone's bad for you is the first step, but then actually acting on it and making a chance to not only get out of it, but then find other people. It's like that's what's all about life. And so I think cinema is a powerful tool in that.
SPEAKER_01Like you said earlier, like you want people to feel connected and be able to maybe see themselves or see someone they know on the screen, but also that education side where it's like, oh, there's a whole other way of doing this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like just learning about the world and learning about people and and psychology. And like I've had a very interesting childhood where I moved around a lot, and so I was always around people, especially adults. And so it was fascinating having that real life experience and then watching movies, and then going, oh, like they're not far off. Like, like this is very true to life, and even like sometimes well, a lot of the time, whether it's my life or someone else's life, things will happen where I'll go, I could never put this in a movie. Not because it's horrible, but it's so crazy, no one would believe it's like plausible. And so I think it's just that. Like, I'm always just fascinated by people, and so watching a movie, again, it can it can be a dual experience, it can be an escape, just a fun time, just so we can like watch some stuff happen. But at the same time, it can be oh, like I can have a really unique experience right now. And what's fascinating about our career path is we can't dictate that. No one can dictate a movie you watch and you have a reaction to it that makes you curious or more informed about the world. And that's what makes it fun.
SPEAKER_01My next thing was about playlists. I know that you write screenplays when you write screenplays, you make you curate a playlist for the film. Yeah. My problem is I've been doing the same thing. But how do you get more songs for the playlist? Do you go looking for the songs? Do you go, okay? I've got two songs in here saved by Amy Whitehouse, for example. Yeah. Do I listen to more of her discography? Do I look for other people who has music similar to her? Or do I just go Spotify have fun? I'm gonna go on some daily mixes, and then if something pops up, all this will be good. Like, how do you how do you curate your playlists?
SPEAKER_00Alrighty. So kind of very similar to what happened in in Vietnam as a kid, um, researching movies and just like kind of watching everything. The year before COVID and the year, like the the first two years of COVID, same thing happened with music. Because from 20 to 23, I I fell out of filmmaking, like I felt out of love with it, and I was like, I'm not quite sure if I want to do this anymore with life. But I love being creative and I love writing. And in those three years, I really just found myself gravitating towards music. Like if I was having a bad day or not feeling good, I I found out that I wouldn't be watching a movie or a show to feel better, I'd be playing music. And at the end of 2019, I made a very conscious choice that what I did with movies, I'd do with music. And I would just research everyone. Uh like anyone you can think of, I would just research them. And I'd watch interviews and just play their music and like go through all their albums, or like, you know, I'd look up who are regarded as the five best hip-hop artists, and I would play all of them and go, Who do I think is is my favorite? Like just even things like that, because I was just curious about it all, and even how almost like in movies, like one director is inspired by someone who worked with someone, who knew someone, who met someone. The world of music is very similar where everyone's kind of connected to each other, and so it was kind of through that and just looking at credits. And so with music, I'd go, Oh, well, this artist worked with this producer who worked with this artist who was on this label, who at one point was working with this person, so it was like kind of like a massive spider web. And so, long story short, I have a big collection of music.
SPEAKER_01So, so when you were curating your playlists, yeah, it's music you already know.
SPEAKER_00A lot of it, yeah. Interesting, or like I'm very, very similar to film, I'm very tuned in to what's happening in the world in terms of output, and so I'm constantly curious about artists up and coming, but also just artists from the past, like from the 30s and 40s and and 60s, where it's just like how they have influenced people, even just like in certain singing styles. Um so yeah, and then just I don't know, like the way I approach a a playlist for movies is It always starts with the the tone and the mood, and music can help access certain memories. Shout out Daft Punk. Where you can go, oh, like I saw this in that movie and this in that movie, and it made me feel this way. And this song kind of ties into that feeling. So I'm gonna put it here. Like almost like a almost like a vision board. A playlist can be that.
SPEAKER_01When writing, and you say you're writing one scene, which is a type of let's say you're writing a scene where people having a date at a bakery, and then you're writing another scene where there's someone on the back of a dragon invading a kingdom. Very different emotions going in there. Do you go to different locations while writing to trigger different creative responses?
SPEAKER_00No. And I really wish I did. Like I wish that there was more of a method to it, but it's really just if I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it. And I've tried so many different things. I've tried cafes, I've tried public areas, I've tried office space at home, bedroom. It just you can't really predict it. Like either I'm in the mood to write in the moment or not. And that's what's tricky sometimes. Cause like I'll wake up one day and I'm like, oh, I want to write today. And then even like last year, I I found myself sometimes like starting a method. Like I would get on the train, come to Frio, go to Dome Cafe and write. But then I eventually stopped doing that because I would do all those steps. I'd get on the train, go to Dome, put up the computer to write, and nothing would happen. Yeah. Or I I I would write, but I'm like, I hate this. So yeah, I wish there was more of a control in me doing stuff to produce A, B, and C, but it's kind of just like if it hits, it hits.
SPEAKER_01Where do you write, like, where do you normally write? Like you mentioned cafes and stuff. Is there a place where you do most of your writing?
SPEAKER_00Right now it's mainly at home. Like there's a desk at home, also my bed, and I know it's bad to write in your bed. Like uh a screamer had told me that once, but I'm just like, how does that happen? Like, or or the couch.
SPEAKER_01But it's at home, like somewhere where you're comfortable.
SPEAKER_00Usually, yeah. Yeah. I guess because I tried last year going to places, and I'm still down to do that actually. It's kind of just what the moment feels like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. With the screenplays, do you plan out an entire story like beat points A to Z? Or do you just go, I'm just gonna write this and figure it out as I go along?
SPEAKER_00It helps to plan it out, I find. For me personally, if I know the ending, I'm confident to begin the quest. Like, because it gives me a destination, and like my approach to being in charge of a creative vision, if that's either directing or writing, is almost like driving, where like if I'm behind the wheel having to drive to, I don't know, a film set, I have that location. What I don't have in my head is the ways to get there. But personally, for me, I don't really care. Like, I'm I'm chilled to be behind the wheel of a car driving and just like fit like either figuring it out or maps telling me, okay, now make this right and now left because I know my end destination. And I know people who like get in the car and go like, let's figure it out. And I'm like, I can't do that. Like, like that's not me, and it's so similar to writing. I cannot begin writing if I don't know the final beat, if I don't know the final scene, or even just like having an idea going into it, like it might evolve, but yeah, but you need to have some sort of framework. It just makes me feel like there's a some safety net. Yeah, no, for sure.
SPEAKER_01One thing that I can struggle with sometimes when you're writing uh quite emotional scenes. Let's say you're you're up at night, you're in your feels, you know what I mean? And you're writing a could be a breakup scene, whatever, a deaf scene. And you're in that and you're feeling it in the moment, you're writing, it's flowing, it's going great. The next day you need to get back into that zone where you're writing that scene. How do you carry those emotions that you had the day before? Because a lot of the times when you're writing, you're writing to the emotions you're feeling. How do you carry that so it stays true within the context of it's a whole different day now that you're writing?
SPEAKER_00I make sure that there's something planned in the day where I have to get out of the house and go for a walk. I find walking and just physical exercise is really healthy to get perspective. Because something that I find overwhelming about being a writer is it's cerebral. A lot of it is in your head, a lot of it is you pulling from experiences and having something tangible to do, even if it's something like going to get groceries, it's something physical, it's something tangible where you're not being asked to be in your head, you're being asked to kind of just be present in the world, and in a way also where you can be alone but also around people. Like I also love going to the gym, and me personally, like having ideas and finding ideas and just like being given ideas happen to me a lot either while working out, while in the shower, or while buying groceries. It's like those three things I always find like I'll pull out the notes app, or if in the shower, like I'll hop out the shower, like and write down the idea. And what I find fascinating about that is there are so many singers and just like producers I know who have written songs or gotten ideas for songs in the shower. Like even that song Easy on Me by Adele, she wrote that in the shower. That stuff fascinates me. And so in moments like that where emotions can be quite difficult or scenes can be quite demanding, I'll always plan something to car it up and break it up. But also, it's kind of going back to why I choose not to make horror films, is that the first 20 years of my life, a lot of stuff went down. And when I write, I there's certain head spaces that I don't really want to be in.
SPEAKER_01Just don't want to put yourself back in there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I'm like, I actually don't want to pull from this. And it's almost like um I think the acting coach, Stella Adler's approach to acting, where it's like a rule of like you. Charlotte mentioned her on the last slide. Yeah, you don't pull from your own life. But also it's like, I don't want to prostitute my my nightmares. Like for me as a writer, I'm always fascinated by that thing beyond the trauma, the thing where you create a happy life for yourself. And so, yeah, like just being in the headspace isn't an interest of mine. But then if I naturally you're writing a difficult scene or a tough scene, or even just a scene where it just requires you you be focused, I'll always tie it up with like going for a walk or doing something physical.
SPEAKER_01In scenarios where you know you need to have a certain you have deadlines or you need to get to a certain page number by a certain point. Do you have any rituals or habits that you have to get you out of writer's block? Or like you just said, going for a walk, for example, could be a good one. But let's say you are at a point where you know, I had it literally the the thing that helped me last night was talking to you know my girlfriend Caitlin and my roommate Vic about it. Yeah. Because I was just stuck on a problem for like three days about characters' motivation. I was like, I just can't think of what these clowns are doing this. But do you ever have any writer's block and you figured out ways to get through it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's having an honest conversation with yourself about why do you want to tell this story and do you want to make it like my personal belief is every story that I ever write and direct has to be because I want to watch it. And it having that as the goal is where I think joy can help you through those difficult times. And for me, like if I went back the clock to write before I first met you, I was trying to write this horror short film. It was more it was more thriller. And I eventually the party one? Yeah, it was a party one. And I eventually shelved it because I had an honest talk with myself. I was like, I'm not making this movie because I I want to watch it, I'm making it because I'm trying to prove something. I'm trying to show that I can do X, Y, and Z. And I I guess like I wanted to challenge myself, but it wasn't a challenge that I was interested in watching. And so that was a good internal moment of like that's a great point though.
SPEAKER_01It could be like, yeah, so when you've got writer's book, you go, well, what would I want to watch? And then write what you'd want to watch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or like, you know, if you're struggling with a character, don't think of yourself as a writer. Think about moments where you've watched a movie and gone, like, what do you want to see from this person in this moment? And so it's like, if you hate watching a horror movie where a character goes down to a basement, it's like, what the fuck are you doing? And then you're writing a horror film where someone's going down the basement, and you're like, why am I thrilling with this? It's like because you don't want to watch that. Yeah. And so it's like, figure out what you do want to see and create that. Like, I find that always helps. Of like, I'm fascinated with what I haven't seen, or I guess I've lived, and I don't really see these things playing out. Like, that just always fascinates me.
SPEAKER_01So a big reason I started this podcast was specifically about the flow state. And it was, you know, when you get to that point where you look at the clock and oh, it's been five hours. You know what I mean? You've just been so locked in. And yeah, I was gonna ask you, are there from when you've been in that, yeah, have you ever paid attention and looked around and been like, okay, what were the what was the environment, either like mentally or physically, that helped me get into the flow state? Have you ever paid attention to any things that may help you get to the flow state?
SPEAKER_00I find that it's never really about a physical environment. Asterisk though, because if if certain people are around you, like they can bring a certain energy where it's like isn't compatible. And so there have been moments where I have left the house or left a certain area because I'm like, I'm getting a vibe here, this isn't the right time to do this, you know what I mean? But more just internally, I'm like, it's almost like the car metaphor. Like, I'm just so cozy right now, I know where I'm driving to. Fuck it. Like, let's find this out. Like, almost like being a character in a movie. It's like, I don't know what I'm gonna encounter on this journey, but I know where I want to go, and that's all that matters in the end. It's being cozy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So being cozy for you helps you, and be and you said you can get into it around other people, but sometimes if the energy is wrong, you just know the energy is wrong.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so something that I I like found out years ago, years, years, years ago, is I can't write in real time with other people. I have to write solo. I hear that. Um, because everyone has different methods, and like I even talk to writers where they need other people around them, and no methods wrong. It's more just I've discovered I need to be able to get lost in my head and lost in the idea, and just have that freedom to, I guess, space out and daydream.
SPEAKER_01And how do you get into that environment where you can get lost in your heads?
SPEAKER_00I like first off, like having an idea that really excites you, um, having it be a thing that you want to watch. And then I heard Greta Gerwig say this once like having an idea where it hurts you not to write it, like it hurts you to not have the idea be real. And so sometimes it does get to that point. But if I'm being real though, like the the last script that I wrote, it was just so much fun writing it, because I really wanted to watch it. And I guess like the fun thing about being a producer on Helpline, and also just down these other ones too, is I am able to kind of look at like what audiences want, and when I get an idea of where I'm like, oh my god, it's a perfect marriage, of like I am being creative and like stylistic and like being a bit abstract, but also I'm doing it in a story where people want to see this, and so it just kind of motivates me more of like I want to share this with people, and what motivates me also to kind of complete the screenplay is the screenplay in filmmaking is the one time anyone is alone with your idea and you can just piss off. Naturally, in life, if you talk to somebody about the film you want to make, you're pitching it, you're selling it, you're trying to convince them. But when someone's reading a screenplay, they have to be alone and read it. Like what I find fascinating, even in Hollywood, is like there's so many stories where actors have been delivered a screenplay in like a briefcase and then been told by either some assistant or manager, I'm gonna be outside in the car for the next three hours. You have three hours to read the uh the screenplay and make up your mind. You know what I mean? And there's a reason for that. It's like it's it's the one time you are alone with this idea and have an honest conversation with yourself. And that convo isn't is this shit or is this good? It's do I want to do this? Do I connect with this somehow? And no one can dictate that. When someone reads a script and they turn it down, don't look into it. Don't look into oh that that they think I'm trash. Just look at it as oh, it's not compatible, it's not, it's not meant to be, and that's fine.
unknownIt's fine.
SPEAKER_01Ollie, you are without a doubt one of the best people I've ever met in my life at networking. Very flattered, thank you. Anyone who knows you will say the same thing. What are some tips about networking that you have that you could give to people who aren't as good at networking?
SPEAKER_00I would say I want you to imagine uh shyness, insecurity, everything in that realm of emotion being a lot of money. And now I want to pitch I want you to picture yourself being broke. What I always tell myself is being shy. Like if I'm ever going to an uh either a set, an environment where I have to be around people or just work and do my job. I always tell myself, I can't afford being shy right now. I can't afford being quiet. That's someone else's luxury. That's someone who can fly emirates, but it's not me. I am jet started emirates, I am I am Jet Star. And this is this is We are easy jets. This is my reality, and my reality is I can afford confidence.
SPEAKER_01You just can't afford to be not good at it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I I just picture it being literal money, and I picture confidence being priced at $2. I picture being proud, being $2. I picture being happy, being $2, and I picture being shy, uh like frickin' Whitney Houston's million dollar bill. Like I I I do, I do. And I just tell myself, it's just not an option. It's it's not a reality. I can't afford that.
SPEAKER_01But when you say you visually see $2 for this, $2 for this, $2, are you saying so? Before you leave the house, let's say you're going to a networking event, you just go, doesn't matter if I'm feeling anxiety or all of these things, like I actually can't afford it. And you just go balls to the wall, you're like, I don't care. I'm just gonna talk to people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Like I'm like, I can't afford it. But also sometimes, again, sometimes if it is a truly bad day, I'll remove myself. So I I won't turn up. Because it's it's better off, like in those moments where it's not like a everyday, like normal nerves. It's more like a things aren't going well here, NEVS. It's better off to just leave bow out instead of turning up and possibly really making an ass of yourself. Yeah. And but like ask of yourself in a way of like give in to the anxiety. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, like most of the time though, it's just like I can't, like again, like almost like looking at like a really shiny diamond on a top shelf, and I'm like, I can't reach like that's kind of shy.
SPEAKER_01I just can't get that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, like it's not a reality. I can't I can't do it. Like, I I just have to talk to people. That's crazy cool about the mindset, bro.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because you're straight up like it's just not something that I can do.
SPEAKER_00It's it's it's almost like going to an airport going, well, do I want to fly emirates? Do I want to fly? It's like, no, it's it's not an option. You can't fly that.
SPEAKER_01And how did you develop this mindset?
SPEAKER_00No idea. It just happened. It just happened one day, Robbie. And I think I think it might have happened maybe a few months or years. Maybe at 20. Maybe at 20 it happened. I I I don't know. It it just started. And take that with me. Yeah, and like, look, you know, life still happens. There's plenty of moments where I've talked to people and I've been awkward or fumbled or not said the right thing, but it's just kind of like fuck it. Like that, like that's life. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like you're better off just like existing and breathing and just giving it a go than doing nothing.
SPEAKER_01I think we may have to end it there just because the cameras are dying about it. I still have like four other questions for maybe part two at some point down the line. Yeah. Oh yeah, that Ollie's camera just died. Um I'll just end it with uh I was I was going to say this at WA Maids, but then as soon as we got on the stage, completely went out the window. My brain, I was so nervous. I mean, but I was just gonna say, fuck me if I could find it. Uh I was just gonna say uh the names of everyone involved in the film. Oh. As just like a little thank you. Um if I can find it, where did I write this down? Uh because even that camera's about a dollar shit. Um my goodness. My notion is failing me, Ollie. Criminal Helpline producer, Victory Speech. Okay, here we go. So these are the names in in the order of the credits that everybody involved in Helpline. Just a big thank you from me and Ollie. Yeah. Uh so Ollie, Marina, Claire, Ewan, Jobum, Aaron, Ricky, Christian, Noad, Rohan, Mack, Charlotte, Tess, Flynn, Ethan, Elaine, Renee, Juan, Kate, Juva, Bailey, Lucas, Gemma, James, Daunt, Danny, Jade, Annika, Rose, Ash, Matt, Sam, Christian, Ella, John, Luke, Ian, Vic, Caitlin. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll be back again very soon with a few more episodes of the pipeline. Ollie is now the podcast liaison. I don't know if you want to leave. You can lean forward. Oh, yeah. Ollie is the podcasting other zone, the best in the world editor. You and you and K is the editor for this. You and good luck with the colour changes and the lighting. Um But yeah, thank you so much for being the first episode back in two years, Oliver.