Creative Mindset Podcast
I interview the most creative people in the City I'm in for the purpose of finding out if there are any common denominators in their creative process, in the hope to increase creative productivity by forming new habits and patterns.
Creative Mindset Podcast
TCM #004 - Adam Bailey
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My guest today is Adam Bailey, a world champion martial artist, capturing the ISKA Middleweight World Champion Belt and Captioning the Australian National Team. Since retirement Adam has become an extremely successful entrepreneur opening Muay Thai gyms across Australia as well as other brands such as Empire Fighter Series and SupaPhat
Adam Bailey's Socials:
@adambaileypursuitmuaythai
@pursuit_muaythai
@empirefightseries_australia
@genesis_southernriver
@genesis_baldivis
00:22 Intro
02:47 What do you mean by everything you need to learn you can learn in between the four ropes?
04:25 How do you help fighters deal with fight night pressure?
04:59 What was going through your mind going into your first fight?
09:25 How do you combat the feeling of fear going into fights?
13:05 How do you corner a nervous fighter
18:55 Did you notice a difference in how effective your training was depending on your location?
24:35 Why do you think fighters have different styles?
27:07 How do you coach a fighter who has a different style?
27:59 How did you recalibrate your goals after becoming world champion?
28:51 How did you develop the skill of compartmentalising?
29:10 Where you ever concerned you weren’t putting enough time into Muay Thai?
30:31 How do you create new systems for new projects?
33:03 How would you build a system for creating a customer base for your business?
35:09 How did you figure out the different leavers in your systems?
36:35 How do you get into the flow state?
38:47 Do you sit down and reflect on how you’re living your life?
40:13 How did you achieve this level of self awareness?
43:55 What was the mindset shift like from fighter to business man?
45:14 How did you use your losses to serve you?
48:22 How do you channel the emotions of getting beaten into your next fight?
49:50 What do you mean by everything hurts less with a massive intrinsic goal attached to it?
51:27 Do you do any manifesting?
52:37 Do you have time set goals?
55:06 How do you determine which behaviours help with your goals?
56:35 How do you manage procrastination?
58:39 How do you create force functions by yourself?
1:00:10 What helps build consistency?
1:03:15 How do you develop a champion mindset?
1:05:45 How do you train your mind?
1:07:07 What’s one thing about running a business people won’t know?
1:07:51 How do maintain a work culture in an expanding business?
It goes a bit far these days, but um you know, with these morning rituals and all that bullshit, you know, I wake up at four and I do my gratitude journal and then I sun my anus on the balcony.
SPEAKER_01You know into that? No, uh I'm into five. My balcony is very public.
SPEAKER_04Creative mindset.
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to another episode of the Creative Mindset podcast. Today my guest is Adam Bailey, who is a world champion martial artist who captured the ISCA World Championship middleweight belt and captained the Australian national team. Since retirement, Adam has become an extremely successful entrepreneur, opening up Muay Thai gyms across Australia, as well as other bands such as Empire Fight series and Superfat. Adam, thank you for joining me. Hi, thank you for having me. Today we're currently in Pursue O'Connor, lovely gym, lovely and clean. Smells great. It's a nice open space. It does smell great. It does smell great. It was just great. It's a very nice one. You're the first martial artist I've had on the show. A lot of other disciplines will be more of the traditional what you would see as creative disciplines. But I do think that martial arts is an art form, and there is a lot of room for creativity in this. It's a bad rep because of all the punching and kicking, but I do believe there is a lot of creative space and it does take a creative mindset to truly exceed in this sport. If I'm wrong, you tell me you'd know where to remember.
SPEAKER_00What's that saying? It's corny. I mean what is it? Um arts are supposed to inflame. I think that's the reason why you know martial arts is a thing, you know, it gets people excited and up and gives them a certain kind of feeling.
SPEAKER_02So arts are meant to inflame.
SPEAKER_00That's what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to invoke something, right? You know, it's supposed to get you get the blood boiling.
SPEAKER_02I've never heard that saying, but it makes sense to be sure. But so I'll be focusing on the first part of the interview, be focusing on your martial arts career, and then the latter half will be focusing more on the business side. Cool. As I don't think you must be in the 1% of martial artists who have had an extremely successful martial art career, but then went on to have an extremely successful entrepreneurial career, opening up gyms, like we said, across Australia, so many brands. I don't feel like there's a ceiling for you. I feel like every time we like we did it right off into the sunset and catch checks, you're like, I'm gonna open up three more gyms, I reckon.
SPEAKER_00No, we're still still learning. I mean, extremely is subjective, I suppose, but I'm not quite there yet. I'm trying my hardest.
SPEAKER_02What would you classify as extremely successful?
SPEAKER_00With every rung you climb up on some sort of ladder, there's a bit of imposter syndrome, and you know, until you're I don't know where her.
SPEAKER_02Well, I feel like not being you from an outsider's perspective, I feel like you could be called an extremely successful. We'll leave that up to the critics, but I feel like it's a fair assessment. But my first question today is one of the very first things you ever said to me, it could have been in the job interview. Robbie, please reply. It's enough. No, one of the very first things you ever said to me was everything you can learn about life, you can learn in between the four walls of the ring. You can learn in between the ropes. You never explained it because I was new. I just said, yeah, sure. Yeah, I agree completely. But what did you mean by that?
SPEAKER_00The boxing ring or or individual sport is is the ultimate leveller. There's nowhere where to hide. So there's your shortcuts are on show. There's every life lesson in business as well that will happen when you're, you know, three to four rounds deep when your lungs are on fire in front of all your family and friends. You find out a hell of a lot about yourself and what you can do. Resilience, uh, you know, putting in the effort or not, and understanding why you're in the position you're in because of what what you did or didn't do. Absolutely every lesson there is you can you can take from boxing and apply it to life or business.
SPEAKER_02So that sort of resilience that you have to have in the ring that applies to all levels of life, like yeah, that's just one matter of water.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. From preparation to yeah, how you carry yourself in victory and defeat, um, the whole gamut of personal growth and success, you know. I mean that's why it's the base of so many analogies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that is one of the things as well, like we spoke about in the last episode. There will just be random noises, but that's part of part of the charm. But um, have you ever had like a situation where you've felt extremely confident in maybe a new fighter you've had, but you've never actually seen them in the ring?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I know that can be a thing where someone's like a gym warrior, but when they're under the lights, what they can do in the gym just doesn't translate into like competition.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But how would you say to someone if they were struggling with that, how would you help them get over that almost? Where it's like under the big lights and the pressure, that's when they start to fold.
SPEAKER_00I think the first thing is is um don't be in a rush to develop anybody or yourself. And that's easy to say when you're a bit older and and in the game a little bit deeper.
SPEAKER_02My next question though, doing my research into this, luckily with guests who haven't been interviewed, it's going to be hard for me to research interviews they've already done. But luckily you've been interviewed a few times, so I was able to get some information. But one of the informations I found out crazily, you had your first fight at 14.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Which is a choice. You know what I mean? Different. And even more crazily, your opponent was 26.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, different times.
SPEAKER_02I believe. Yeah, yeah, different times. Pre-COVID.
SPEAKER_00What was the one before? The the pre-plague nearly. Yeah, a bowler, I guess.
SPEAKER_02It's coming back actually. But what was going through your mind when you were like, I'm gonna have a fight.
SPEAKER_00His knuckles. A lot. Uh well, you don't know what you don't know. Ignorance is bliss. But um, but I you know, as a kid I'd done totally different, but but I'd I'd done some judo and and boxing, and it was all good, you know, until probably 30 seconds after the first ding-ding. And then you go, Righto, this is there's a little bit something more to this, yeah. Um, with this guy, you know, over the starting over across the ring, bloke with a beard, um, just pacing back and forth. Uh, and he literally came flying from the corner. It was at the it was at the Cannington Greyhounds. True. Weird. Um, but was um and over he came uh fucking quick. Yeah. Um beat the snot out of me.
SPEAKER_02Uh but it was what you've got to get those first fight jitters out of the way, you know what I mean? You may as well do it at 14. Yeah, yeah. Um I'm not expected to win this. Yeah, probably cause a divorce on the other side if you lose. I mean, if you won.
SPEAKER_00Like well, yeah, but it was never uh I suppose it was a bit more rare for the age back then. I mean, these days the controls are a lot different. You know, juniors are juniors, they wear padding, you know, they're really well brought up through the sport. There's there's blood testing and medical involved, and what's uh there was there wasn't that, you know, it was a make way promoter called up my trainer on the landline and said, Oh, you got anybody, you know, bunching back. I was like, okay, yeah, we'll we'll do that. And um and the fight camp was awful. I mean, my trainer was fantastic at the time, really good martial artist, not a Muay Thai person.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it was, you know, we trained twice a week, whereas now our kids, juniors, you know, four or five. Yeah, you know, different time.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00But survived.
SPEAKER_02Um just in the weeks leading up no damage. In the weeks leading up to it, I mean, how much notice did you have?
SPEAKER_00Well, there's a fair bit of notice. Um time to break out for shit. Yeah, no, there was, I mean, it was again, it wasn't like now. So in in in Perth now that we've got fights every week. Yeah, you know, nearly. I I shouldn't say that's an exaggeration, but there's you know, at least every month there's a fight show, there's farring days. That that didn't exist.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, we used to have to go and fight the Taekwondo gyms just to try and get experience. Wow. So it was a good, I want to say 10 to 12 weeks notice before this fight. And um, so yeah, plenty of time to back out, but I mean you don't know what you don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'd done judo on a map controlled in a police and citizens youth club. True. Is it gonna be like that? Maybe. Maybe it wasn't, but yeah, that's what you did.
SPEAKER_02So that almost like you said ignorance is bliss. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Sort of just like just sometimes you just have to dive in.
SPEAKER_02How did you feel after that fight though?
SPEAKER_00Fighting's like it's it's another kind of addiction, really. You just you know, once you get that high, win, lose, or draw. You win, you want it again, you lose, you want to redeem yourself. It's it's uh um it's that dopamine hit. So apart from the pain in the legs, and you know, it's I've I loved it from the first minute. Just addicted.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but this you knew this is what I want to do. Yeah, yeah. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00So better than maybe some easier things to be addicted to.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I mean, it worked out, eh? So I mean it went well in the end. But with like obviously, like you said, ignorance is bliss on that one, but the more fights you had with you in the change room before you walk out. I'm sure there's a lot of nerves. I'm sure, like I've seen at the shows, there's some fighters who are very good at hiding it. And when I'm interviewing the fighters beforehand, they'll be like, no, I'm not nervous at all. Or I'm like, surely you must be a little bit nervous, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, how did you combat the feeling of fear as your career went out? Um specifically that period in the locker room before the lights, before the time, did that feeling of fear get easier throughout your career?
SPEAKER_00If your life's and you know, I don't want this to sound as fruity as it maybe is going to sound, but if you if your life's in balance, you know, it's not maybe like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you've ever heard of that. You know, if if you've got your relationships are good, if you've got security, if you've got a roof over your head, if the stress isn't there, well then you're working from a better baseline to be confident and to be able to deal with things that are thrown in in your path.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's not just fighting again, that's everywhere. Uh, you know, take one of those bits of the foundation out, you know, and maybe you're only 17, 18, but you know, a bit younger and your missus hates you, you're broken up, or you're or or worse yet, you've got something going on in the family. Like I've had fights, you know, I I I was at my nana's funeral cutting weight to weigh in on a Friday night to fight Saturday. Do you know what I mean? When those some things are out of whack in life, you just take things harder.
SPEAKER_02It's like already a bump in the roads.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So it's important to look at it a little bit more holistically, and this is where we, you know, from a coach's point of view and maybe an employee point of view, we we need to get that basis right so we can get the most out of ourselves and others. So when you're when life's great, we're balanced, you know. Um you still have the nerves though. It's it's different. Like uh later in my career, I sort of figured myself out a little bit. You know, you always go through patches where you go really well, and then there's the confidence dips, and you might have a couple of losses, and you go, oh geez, is that really for me? It's not a linear kind of progression. Um, but I've had fights there where I've, you know, the last sort of bunch, you know, I was asleep in the change rooms because you got to fight at midnight, so I get to the venue, do my thing, rehydrate, or go have a sleep for a couple hours, wake up and try and get myself back in in the mode. It's interesting, right? You can you can get elbowed in the face and you keep fighting. You kick your toe on the counter in the kitchen and you fucking crippled. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Bruce my wristled. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So there's two things that don't exist in the kicking of the toe, and one's adrenaline and fight or flight. The other one is, well, there's no goals attached to me not trying. Um do you know what I mean? So you really do have to try and figure out your own self. Um but where a lot of people go wrong, where I went wrong for a long period of time, is you would you would not focus on, you need to focus on it like it's a muscle, your self-belief. Um again, outside of the boxing ring, it's the same. Um you can't get up tomorrow and run a marathon. Like your legs will cook, you'll blow out at 20 K's or whatever it is. Do you know what I mean? But if there has to be a period of progressive overload of improvement, and where I think a lot of fighters go wrong, and myself included early, was that there was no focus on that portion to try and progressively overload the brain, the feelings, the thoughts. It was just like I'm just gonna get as fit as possible and I'm gonna pray that on the night it all comes together. You need to go into it with more belief. Yeah, that that should be part, your your mental health is part of your day-to-day ritual, you know, and again, in boxing and in life. Um and without that, that that is that's the foundation of everything. And it's often overlooked.
SPEAKER_02So that's obviously going into the whole preparation of the fight, including like the time beating it building up to it. But let's say you were cornering a pursuit fighter and in the back before they walk out, maybe an hour before they fight, they've already silently done all the things, and they're feeling really nervous to go out. What sort of advice would you give to that fighter in that moment?
SPEAKER_00I think it's probably too late, and that's what I've learned. Um really when you're new as a coach, um, all you want to do is get a fight, a fight team, right? You just want to get as many fighters as you can because that's how your team takes over, and and you might get for a lot of coaches maybe who haven't experienced high success in the ring, it might be their chance to get some kind of self-fulfillment. This is my team, you know. Um so the rush rush through it. So, what what you need to really do, what we've learnt is that we need to identify it early, and it's the same, you know, with staffing, and it's about lengthening out the time it takes to get from zero to the ring, and on the understanding that you're gonna lose some people on the way who maybe aren't willing to commit to the systems and the standards that you've got. But if we're backstage and they're shaking like a shitting dog, so we should have already put them through, you know, hard sparring growth into, you know, try out for the fight team, into some in-house sparring competitions and into fight simulation.
SPEAKER_02Exposing them to new levels of stress so that it's not like a progressive overload.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, progressive overload. So that's progressive overload of the physical and it's progressive overload of the mental. Uh where most people miss out is we just focus on the progressive overload of the physical. Um might be the same, I suppose, in I'm trying to equate it to filmmaking. Maybe there might be just a focus on the technical aspects of running a film. Yeah. You know, whereas we know that the mental aspect is okay, well, how do I deal with Barry that pops up who's just not giving me what he should be? Yeah. And how do I go about managing that? How do I keep a cool head and not take it out on Mary who's doing a fantastic job? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So we need to make sure we're learning that along the way as well.
SPEAKER_02And like what you said as well, with that exposure uh like therapy, I guess it really does make sense because when you go to your next biggest task, you do kind of look back on and be like, okay, what was like the last biggest thing that I did and how did that go? And was that successful? So like building off that, and you were saying like that kind of progressive overload where it's almost like taking each win as it comes and building on that. But yeah, I guess yeah, for fighters, just that almost like I've seen some camps will do in the gym, they'll have people come in and they'll have like pretend like the ring walks, just so they get those like fight night nerves and experience that. And yeah, I guess if you haven't experienced that and you're in the locker room beforehand, like well, I mean that good luck.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good good luck. I mean, and that's the mentality. You know, I used to go out to the ring with um Hansen playing. I don't know if you ever know okay, you fucking youngins. Um, it was a basically a terrible pop band. Okay. Oh, it's a pan? Okay. Yeah, bop. It was three twins. They used to sing these terrible songs, but they were hilarious. They were like sort of for teenage girls of my era. Okay. And the goal was I'd play a big fan. I'd just no, well, uh, you know, these guys come to the ring and they play the heavy metal. And mind, I thought I'd just put a stupid song on to just try and cut that all out and get rid of their, you know. Uh so there are those different mind games involved.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like like trying to make it amusing and humour and just trying to have fun, trying to not take it too seriously.
SPEAKER_00And if you need Metallica and a ring walk and a crew to get you up and going, mate, they are not gonna be there in round three when you are hurting. Yeah, you can't say so many, I just gotta put my telling the DJ system.
SPEAKER_02I need uh I need interstanding guys. With that mentality as well, like you said, because some people when they're walking to the rings, they are walking to the ring like, okay, I'm going to die. Not like I'm I'm going to he's going to kill me, yeah, but just uh this is a life and death situation. Did you ever take it to that point in your mind, or you always just kept it as a sporting competition? Were you like no?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I'm I was a big fan. I think for me there was a there was an aha moment. Uh sort of I'd had a couple of breaks in in fighting because I was working trying to figure out how to do these this gym stuff at the same time. So I had periods of a year off here and a year off there. And the last time I sort of came back to it, it was like, okay, well, there was a bit of a switch that flicked because as soon as I realized um that it was really just all process driven.
SPEAKER_02What did you talk about process driven?
SPEAKER_00But the guy didn't DM my wife. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Didn't steal my fucking lunch money. Yeah. Um so what's that about? We know that when we're you know happy, we know that when we're uh relaxed prior to take on a task, we're more likely to succeed when running that task. If we're angry, if we're clouded by emotion, we make stupid decisions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's like, okay, well everyone keeps banging on about that. So how does that apply? And then it's just a case of understanding that, and I say it every week it's barring, is your brain is a single processing unit, it can't focus on two things at once. So as soon as I realize that if if I could if I could just focus on the game as it's happening and things that I need to do that are inside my control, the less of that other bullshit and chaos, and I'm gonna kill you, I'm gonna go to the edge, I'm gonna die for this, or he's fit and uh that all that chaos went, and I could just more like staying in the moment. Yeah, it was just focusing on what's actually happening than which which suited my style because I I'm more attracted to skillful styles than aggressive, though it's good to watch and all that stuff just wasn't me.
SPEAKER_02Did you notice as well talking about style coming up you know before you decided, really when you were like first getting into Muay Thai in your late teens, early 20s? Did you notice that say you trained at one gym? Say you did shadow boxing, maybe some jump rope, all of this thing, or you did some technique pad work, and then you went to another gym, or maybe you're training outside or some of these things, maybe you're trained by yourself, training with other people. Did you find that there was one method that worked best for you in terms of uh specifically maybe location? Like, did you find okay, when I go for a run in this park, or when I go run with these people, whatever, there's just something way better. Yeah, why do you reckon that that helped, or why do you reckon there was certain places where you trained which helped more in terms of your development than some other places?
SPEAKER_00Because I think adherence and consistency is key over time. So if let's put two fighters next to each other or two insert whatever careers, if you are happy, if you are engaged, if you are enjoying that environment, the likelihood of you hitting though, you know, that 10,000 hours until you actually figure the fuck out what it is you're trying to do is more likely than if you were somewhere in a toxic environment you weren't happy with, and really every time the alarm went off, you think, should I just roll over? The environment is key, it's in our control. Somewhat? Yeah, what why would I mean running is fucking terrible. I mean, that's just my belief, you know. I can't believe run clubs are so popular at the moment. Um fun and run shouldn't belong in the same sentence. Yeah, it's criminal arrivals, yes, unless running is not fun, is the sentence. You know, I grew up in Armadale. Do I want to do that around Armadale? Well, I would have run faster because some prick's trying to steal my fucking shoes. Yeah. Um, but you know, I'd rather go down the beach and run and get a little bit more out of myself and enjoy the you know, scenery.
SPEAKER_02And was that process just sort of like a process of elimination? You tried different places and you found what worked best and you would notice, oh, you know, when I ran at the beach, not only is it just more enjoyable to run at the beach, but you maybe you found you did a better time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just it just uh it's all on enjoyment because over the you're looking at a long game, you know.
SPEAKER_02So you say it has to have a positive impact on your enjoyment. Absolutely. Not just result driven, it has to be like a good vibe.
SPEAKER_00Making money, right? So filmmaking. Yeah? You can make money in crypto. Why don't you do crypto? I just don't want to do crypto. Yeah, you know, but filmmaking gets you up out of bed, like keeps you out of bed and editing, yeah, but crypto don't. Yeah. It's but it's all you've got to direct things to where you know happiness is. It sounds fruity, but do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02I'm more looking at it as a point with um for writing, for example. I um you know, it's already just such a procrastination game, but it was just like going to different locations, I've found it can be easier to write, and now I've put a load of desks in the garage. Feet under the desk, as you would say. I've got the desk in the garage and I've been riding every day there, which I've found has helped. And I was just wondering, as well, like in the past, if you notice, I guess, like what you said, it ties to your enjoyment level, or even another pursuit fighter. Let's say they were training at the O'Connor gym and and the Bibra Lake one, and they found they did better at Bibra Lake. One key reason it could be was maybe enjoyment. Maybe they're around people and they trained better and they just find the click with. Yeah. So it's got to have that enjoyment level. You didn't like at the other place. Yeah. Yeah. True. So it's got to have that enjoyment level. Um, it can't just be, oh, I'll trap myself in a dark room and all I have to do is focus on this, but after a while, that's just not going to work.
SPEAKER_00I've read some stories about riders having their wives locked them in a bedroom and they've got to slide the who was that?
SPEAKER_02They had to slide the paper into the door to get out of the I don't know who did that. That sounds more like a hostage situation, but like I heard there was a famous writer. Well, Rocky Balboa. He's a boxer, not a writer, but he did Good Right.
SPEAKER_00The real paper.
SPEAKER_02I'm getting mixed up for those. Sylvester Stallone wrote the first Rocky movie, he covered all the windows in his house and didn't and got rid of all the clocks, so he didn't know what time was. Yeah. And he didn't leave for three days because he wrote the first. He wrote the he wrote the first uh draft of Rocky because he just didn't, he was just like, I'm gonna just trap myself in this dark room and write it. Yeah, and that probably didn't come from a level of enjoyment, that may have come from a level of desperation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, desperation's one one motivator. It is a powerful motivator. I mean, for me, I'd rather chase something than be chased by it. Yeah. That's a different headspace.
SPEAKER_02I've found that, and maybe it's just the age thing coming from uni, like a lot of people may just still not not everyone, but obviously like some people still need that time pressure of deadlines, like it's gonna come. And they'll probably set the deadline like too far away and leave it to the last minute, but then now it's all of that, and that's probably just coming from not setting a appropriate deadline. Yeah, but for me with writing, it's almost just like I've got to do it to get to the next step of like actually making the film. Um, but yeah, if I leave a deadline too long, then it's just gonna I'll never get to it, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00But there's other things, I mean, it's like being injured, right? Like in in fighting, there's other things that you can fill your time with and still progress, um, like when you're ultimately not feeling it, you know. Sometimes it's just like this ain't happening. Okay, what else can I do to, you know, keep moving forward?
SPEAKER_02Every fighter has a slightly different style. No two fighters are the same. And what do you think comes into the process of creatively creating different styles? Why do you think, in just is it inherent? Some people just straight off the bat are gonna kick and punch differently to others, or why do you think people have such varyingly different creative styles, even if they come up through the same gym and the same trainers? What do you think that's about? Like why do they have those creative differences?
SPEAKER_00When we're under pressure, we stick to practicing the things that we kind of might be good at. Yeah, therefore they sort of flourish, and that's what creates. So if somebody new to the game, you know, they might, oh Jesus, kicking seems to be a good way to do this. Hands suck, so when I'm under pressure and I'm sparring, I just I just kick more. I'm a kick fighter now, you know, and um rather than trying to develop the game on a whole, um, I think that's okay. It's not about having no weaknesses, it's about having clear-cut strengths, and as long as you're gonna identify some other areas that you could work on. You know, we look at this club here, you know, 500 members or whatever sitting around this club. Why do they all have different personalities? Just who they are. Yeah, it's just fighting your art, your writing. It's your personal it's a different personality for different people.
SPEAKER_02Do you think there could be a danger in, say, a fighter switches gym, and at that new gym they have a very different fighting style, and they kind of are trying to enforce that on the fighter?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't think I mean if you were a professional um and you went from one gym to the next, I think there'd be areas of as a coach coming in to me, let's say, um, if I was doing more coaching than I am these days, it would be okay, let's brush up on some weaknesses, not necessarily change the personality and the and the way the fighter is. But strategically, if we look at fighting people, there's a really good opportunity I always find is to get that person. So if Robbie's changing from Bob's gym to Barry's gym, and I've got somebody who wants to fight Robbie, it's a good time to get him as soon as he's changed gym's.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because there's a bit of confusion. Yeah. There's a bit of like, okay, do I'm my old way? Am I my new way? Am I that's the time to get him? Yeah. It's a confusing time.
SPEAKER_02I just mean because like obviously some fighters have the high ties guard, and some fighters kind of fight with their hands down. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, every style works differently for other people. I mean, me personally, I'm probably a lot more like don't want to get punched in the face too easily. But like when you were coaching, if you were very much in the style of gotta have the hands high, you know, slipping, and someone came in from another gym, maybe over East, and they were like hands down, Sean O'Malley style, you know, like down to the knees, would you how would you approach that? Where would you go, really, you know, I need you to keep the hands up, or like would you just be like, hey, if you want to get easily more punched in the face?
SPEAKER_00So at a high level, there's a there's a wrestle, you know, between what you're thinking and what what they're doing. And and like I said, like every fight camp, you've just got to um you know brush up on one technique. If somebody comes to you and there's they're doing something that you don't agree with, the answer isn't just that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong, or get lost. You need the connection and trust first, and then it's okay, well, let's why don't we try this? And and over the course of the relationship, when they buy in and they're engaged, well, and the results come from it, well, then they'll follow suit. But you never want to kill somebody's um personality, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, because the enjoyment side that's just gonna get rid of it for them. Yeah, with as you mentioned, like goals and deadlines earlier. I'm assuming for a long time, in your a few years at least, in your life, your goal was to be world champion.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_02And once you achieved that goal, how did you go about recalibrating those goals and what was that process like during that recalibration period?
SPEAKER_00Trying to win a world title was only one component to my life, it was never everything. Okay. If there was one thing I was good at, it was um or still am, uh, is being able to take one hat off, compartmentalize that thing, and move on to the next without thinking about so when I'm when I was training and fighting, I could focus on that and I could forget the business. And as soon as I wasn't training and fighting, go back to what I was doing, and I didn't it didn't rule my my thoughts because I suppose maybe I had a more balanced goal set.
SPEAKER_02Um how do you think you developed that sort of being able to take on the hat and put on the awareness? Just awareness of the fact that I'm like, okay, I'm no longer in this arena for the next couple hours, I'm in this one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Pushing that to the sides. That was easy for me for some reason, whereas a lot of people were just thinking about it 24-7. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, with like you said, you were able to have that balance. Did you ever concern that maybe you weren't putting as much as you needed to be putting into Muay Thai, where you're talking about the balance and taking off the caps and putting on the other cap?
SPEAKER_00Well, your measurement's going to come in results.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And if the results were adequate, well then that was the that was the measuring tool.
SPEAKER_02No, that's a great way of putting it. Measurement comes in results. Like you'll know that, okay, if you didn't achieve, then you must not put enough effort in. But if you have achieved it, then what you did was the right.
SPEAKER_00And your and your feelings post. So the quick measurement is are the results there? Yes or no? If no, am I gutted? If no, this is probably not the best use of my time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If yes, okay. What do I need to do to cut down over here to put my time into here and push again? So it's systems, and that's all this is business, um, boxing, filmmaking, systems and effort. You combine the system. You've got to add that framework to work for it. Everything needs framework, everything needs a foundation, everything needs framework. And then we put the effort behind the systems with gusto, and if the systems hold up, the effort's enough, you'll succeed.
SPEAKER_02How do you go about creating those systems for a new project? Let's say you're starting a new business or something. How would you go about being like, okay, because sometimes you don't even know what you don't know? Correct. So how would you go about creating new systems for something? Is there almost like a traditional checklist you've got where you there is now.
SPEAKER_00It's called fucking open source um AI. You ask for a checklist? Yeah, but what what that doesn't give you though is the grey hairs in the in the in the system. So um, you know, for for me it was going, I I gave up a pretty high high-paying personal training business to go back and become a fitness coordinator and understand those systems, then sort of work my way up and move across into sales and learn those systems. So it's it's just about time in the game and and not and not becoming comfortable because the the stuff you need is the stuff in that generally in that area that you're not most comfortable with.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like a fight analogy, clinch is hard, running's hard. Uh majority of people can punch and kick a bit, but it's in those two things that you're gonna really separate yourself as an amateur, you know. So maybe in the business world, it's or or you know, in Muay Thai gyms, a lot of trends are fantastic at training people. Well, the the longevity and the the growth in those businesses is gonna come in the accounts, it's gonna come in the bits we don't want to really look at. So it's it's awareness of what we really don't like doing in that industry and either learning how to do it or getting someone else to do it for us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So with creating the new systems, it's about you're not gonna have the system from day one figured out. It's about let giving time to figure out what you don't know and what you do know, and figuring out what works best.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And eliminating, I guess, or just stop doing the things that aren't working best, you know, like Yeah, correct.
SPEAKER_00The system's pretty basic. What's the thing? What are the four things that are the levers to getting that thing better? And what is underneath, what do I say, what do I do, what are the behaviors underneath each one of those things and each one of those levers that's going to give us the results we're after? And then it's the measurement.
SPEAKER_02Are they like traditional levers?
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean, what will give me, give me a system? What would be a system?
SPEAKER_02I don't I guess if you were trying to if you were opening well the new Pursuit Wannaroo opening, yeah, uh, and you're trying to build a big customer base for that new gym, yeah. What would be the systems that you would go about with creating, I guess from scratch, like the gym doors opened, okay. Now it's like, okay, how do we get new people to come in? How would you go about it?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, look, I mean, I can't give away the the idea. But but no, it's it's it's really just about okay, there's X amount of people out there, all right. What's my message to elicit a conversation? What type of conversation do I need to have with these people to get them agree to come in?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00What do I need to show these people when they get in here to entice them to join? And what do I need to say to them to get them to make a decision to move forward with us? So it's really the member is the thing we're trying to achieve. Those things are the levers. Okay, I've got to do this right, I've got to do this right, this right. How do I do that? Well, I adjust my approach in each one of those levers and measure which one is successful. Okay, well, we get them in here, but um they're not enjoying the session. Okay, well, let's have a look at the session.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Jim stinks. Okay, right. Um, trainers late. Yeah. Out of uniform. Combinations are too long. They're looking like they're not engaged. Okay, change, change, change, change, change, measure. Okay, cool. They're enjoying it now, but they're not joining. Okay, what is it? Is it my price? Is it my approach?
SPEAKER_02Is it my and that just came from even that first lever you said was it wasn't even like let's talk to them. Your first lever was let's how do we start a conversation?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how do we how do we there's so you know, you look at any one of these clubs or any business, there's X amount of people within the catchment. Right? If it's a bricks and mortar company, there's a you know, a five-kilometre ring around a business, there's that amount of people in there. Okay, now, what percentage of these people are going to be interested in martial arts? Well, we should have done that research before we even signed the lease. But how do I, what's my message to these people? Can it be the same message? Probably not, because there's a couple of different types of people in the in the catchment.
SPEAKER_02But even just that figuring out that you can't start with the conversation, you need to get to a what figure out how to have start with the conversation. And then so that was that a lever that you realized over time, maybe at the beginning you were just immediately trying to tell them, and you were like, Okay, we've got to slow down on that, we've got to build up to that next step.
SPEAKER_00Correct. And I and sometimes it's easier to figure it out on other people's money, you know. So I was running, yeah, you know, because there's a I was trying to fight, so I'm working in gyms. It's like, okay, well, what are these gyms doing? What are they saying? How they, you know, okay, I like that, I don't like that. That's the feedback, I'm not gonna use that. So working in within other systems before starting your own, seeing how they work and well it's called an apprenticeship in normal speak. You know, you do your you do your time, learn the skills, learn the skills on other people's dough. You kind of put the kahunas on the line and you know, with with ethics. I mean, the first thing my boss said to me was, you know, I said, look, I'm gonna go open my gym. He said, Okay, well just don't do it anywhere near me. Yeah. And I said, Okay, done deal. Yeah, you know. Um, yeah, you don't go ripping off people's intellectual property, you don't, you know, that's all that stuff. But you learn, you have to learn your trade.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it's it's surprising that, well, not surprising, but there's such like I've I've mentored a lot of personal trainers, um thousands, I reckon, across the country, with my former roles before this. Um and it's amazing that these guys can tell you how to drop 10 kilos to the absolute, you know, minutia of detail, but can't tell you how to find a client or how to get one. They're gonna find the success in the bit that they don't want to attack, which is member acquisition, or the bit they're not, they're more comfortable throwing around dumbbells.
SPEAKER_02So, yeah, my next question would be mostly about the flow state, which is a big part of this podcast. And it's about that the flow state, you know, that period of time where you're just so deep in work and deep for deep work, where three hours will pass and you'd be like, Well, what happened? And sometimes a lot of the time, it's some of your best work as well. And you go, where did that come from? I don't even know where that came from. Have you ever noticed how you got to the flow state? Like if there were any parameters leading up to that where you've gotten into the flow state, like any similarities? Have you ever noticed that?
SPEAKER_00Mental health's a huge one. Um if everything is as in balance as we can and we're happy before we pick up on the task, if we're motivated to do so because it's something we love doing and it's in line with our goals. We're speaking to ourselves in a positive manner rather than well, you what are we fucking doing? You're gonna die here, you know, whatever, or this is boring. I can't be bothered today, or hate Mondays. Um, you're hung over, you know, just those things. Yeah. So it's all foundation first. You can't expect to achieve here with a lumpy, unstable foundation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, that's one thing I've noticing definitely throughout this podcast is you do attribute a lot of success to making sure you have a great foundation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and and this is why uh it goes a bit far these days, but um, you know, with these morning rituals and all that bullshit, you know, I wake up at four and I do my gratitude journal and then I sun my anus on the balcony.
SPEAKER_01You're not into that? No, well, I'm into vibes. My balcony is very public, you know.
SPEAKER_00So uh um, but it's it's it there is some truth to it. So however you meditate or however you get your self-right, that's that's a super important part of any kind of performance.
SPEAKER_02And did you ever maybe just sit down and assess your life and you go, okay, I know that what's best for my mental health and longevity is to wake up at this time or do at least exercise once a day or all of these things. Did you have that in your life where you sat down and sort of like that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I I'm I'm a little bit OCD in that way that everything has to be structured. I mean, I'd be surprised if I had any, you know, um different breakfast, uh, any more than three or four different variations in the last decade.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, legit. Like unless I'm on holiday. Okay. You know, I'll also ruin it by uh because I I I as soon as I find something, I want to do it a lot. I think we spoke about this before. I'll you want to go for run, we'll run forever. Maybe not running, I hate running. Um you want to train, we'll train forever, you want to lift weights, we'll lift weights. You want to go out to party, we'll party forever.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So which can so you it's about understanding what throws you out of those. You've got to have those pillars. Correct. Yeah, and and I call them force functions, like there's you have to have something that helps you put the brakes on to maybe not do things on the weekend that are gonna stop you waking up at the optimal time and getting yourself prepped and you know, or or ruining like your bedtime routine where you might get everything out of your brain onto a pad so you can actually sleep, you know, wake up and sort of attack the day. Get the balcony, yeah. Get the get the some of the proof.
SPEAKER_02How did you go about again? Was it just trial and error and just I guess everything you're saying is you have to be, you can't just be floating through life. You can't just be on to the next day and you're doing the same thing. You actually have to take a perspective away from what's going on in real time and actually look at things vastly and notice, okay, I keep repeating the same bad behavior. And I guess some people maybe just never even think about that. Or I I know if you're in a fixed mind state, that can definitely hinder you from ever even wanting to review what's going on and stuff like this. So, how did you? I guess it takes a lot of honesty, but also that level of self-awareness. Like, how do you reckon you develops that level of self-awareness and brutal honesty to where you may want to be getting like wasted or you don't want to wake up at 5 a.m.? But how did you get to that point in your life where you're like, okay, now I have to do these things to achieve what I want?
SPEAKER_00The results dictate the actions, that's like the loop, right? You you take action, you get results, it forces you to take more action, you you take a negative action, you get poor results, you go, Oh shit, maybe that's not for me. Um now, do I think that everybody should measure their day-to-day tasks like I do? No, it's insanity. Like if you really understood to the level of um stupidity that I like to track things. Um but it made sense, right? You I don't know, is it that difficult? You you I don't know, you make a cake, you measure the fucking ingredients, right? The cake turns out well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well I think it's just the consistency though.
SPEAKER_00I think the yeah, well, if for me doing what I do, if if I if I don't give it that attention, there's a whole lot of mess that you can get into. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's expensive. Do you do you so you wake up at like five in the morning and you go to the gym? I can't, it's not about I wake up by choice, I can't sleep.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_00There's a different thing. I was cursed as a child. It's not like I'm sitting there going, come on, I'm gonna attack the day. It's like ping, um, because you know, I you know, look at what's going on at the moment. We've got about seven projects that we're we're planning at the moment or halfway through with you know, with with lines of you know, from contractors, suppliers, and safety and to stay on top of.
SPEAKER_02We've got fight shows coming up, we've got people coming from overseas on visas and so you're more looking at it as like a I can't afford to not do this, instead of like, oh, this is hard, I don't really want to. Yeah, it's like no, I literally can't afford to not do this right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's it's it's built into I suppose daily discipline now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, to where it's no longer like a motivation, that's just who you are, that's just what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00I think structures are important, yeah. And if you can get them right 80% of the time, but the measurement of those structures is the most important thing.
SPEAKER_02So you measure the structure based on the success it gives you?
SPEAKER_00Correct. So is my morning better used to you know get out and exercise and not book any meetings until 12 and focus on myself or deep work, or is it better, you know, what what's my best use of time, you know, is it later at night when the kids are asleep? But you put an extremely high value on mental health as well. Correct. It's foundation. Our our health, um physical and mental, underpins everything.
SPEAKER_02And you don't because I know a lot of people were like, oh, I don't have time to go to the gym.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because they're working. Yeah. But that you're saying is just almost working against them.
SPEAKER_00Well, says the dick who who owns 12 of them or however many. So it is difficult for me not to be in a gym, you know. And we got the health clubs as well, but not that I train there. I I actually don't train any of our facilities for for the weights anyway.
SPEAKER_02So you obviously had a very um Say affluent fighting career. You know what I mean? You achieved a lot. Yep. What was that mindset shift from fighting in a one-on-one arena to then being an entrepreneur and starting trying to grow multiple businesses? What was the mindset shift like between fighter and entrepreneur?
SPEAKER_00I think they're equally as scary. They can hurt the same. I think they're exactly the same. They're lonely.
SPEAKER_02Was it exactly the same as well? Because like you said, you were always working towards goals.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_02And you always structured your life towards goals so this is just even though it's a different arena, it's the same sort of rules.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's just the mo they're both the most brutal, honest uh ways of testing yourself. Because it's all on you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for every fighter, if any fighters watch this will know you know how the torture you put yourself through after you lose, you know, it's the same with with business. You know, there's people there cheering on when you win and talking about you when you lose, and it's just exactly the same. It it hurts, but the um but the rewards can be significant.
SPEAKER_02How did you use those losses to serve you? Like I'm sure you know, you probably at a certain point were like, okay, I've got a fight coming up. If I win this fight, I'll get this guy. And you're sort of looking at that future, but then maybe that first fight doesn't go your way and you're heartbroken.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02How did you deal with that and how did you use that to ultimately serve you?
SPEAKER_00You need to understand the difference between losing and getting beaten. Okay. I I truly believe getting beaten is something that I've uh something that is not necessarily my fault. Losing is.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Losing's an action on my behalf. Did I not prepare? Did I not try hard? Did I, in the moments that it got tough, fold? Did I cut corners? That's a loss. We can get beaten by somebody who's better.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we're mad almost.
SPEAKER_00We can get beaten by an industry downturn. We can get beaten by Albanese being our 50% business partners, I think the meme at the moment. I'm sure that'll age well. Watching this in two years' time. Um there's differences. So you can get to the end and the result's still the same. It's uh it's an L on the record. But what will make you sleep at night is if you threw your heart at it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you can't. But it still hurts, though. Oh, yeah, but it's it's mad, it's an easy one to swallow, trust me. Is it you'd be disappointed, but you you know at 3 a.m. You tried tried your best. Yeah, when your head hits a pillow, you will know if you lost or you got it. But you're still angry though that you lost. Motivated. Okay. I want to go again, I want to do it again. Okay. Um so that anger is the motivation. Maybe it's not anger, maybe that's not the right word.
SPEAKER_02Well, maybe I'm speaking about me, I'm projecting it. The frustration because you're like, okay, I tried everything, but I still came up sure.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna do this next time. I suppose there might be anger if you think you were ripped by the judges or whatever, like that. There's there's a bit of that, but that's out of your control. Yeah, that one will hurt. But yeah, you'll you'll know if you if you didn't give it a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02So I guess that's just not really an issue then. Like, I'm sure you haven't had a lot of periods where you've like I mean, I know, I'm sure you have, but like there's not the majority where you've been like corners.
SPEAKER_00That's just the thing that happened at the end. Yeah, so there's still 25 years plus of I've nailed it, I suck. Oh, I did this, oh that one, I'm off the rails. So you're gonna get beaten on the way to success. Yeah, and you're gonna lose on the way to success. Yeah. Because you go, you can't this doesn't come already figured out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You need to figure it out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, trust me, there's been fights where I've not wanted to go on and I didn't. There's been fights where I fought really well, there's been fights where I felt amazing, there's been fights where I didn't want to do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But again, it's it's the the learning. People people focus on just that end part, and that's not what it is.
SPEAKER_02So I guess in a scenario, let's say you did a fight, you didn't get the decision, you were feeling that you got beaten instead of a loss, but you still have that like man, I tried really hard and I didn't get it. And you may be upset about that and stuff like that. How would you channel those emotions into the next stage?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, as a fighter, a bit young the first day, there's a there's a five-day bender, you know, um, it's a bit of crying, uh, you know, a lot of a lot of booze, and then it's a rematch, you know, let's go. Um so you need to let go of that. You you do, but easier said than done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Do you still want to keep a bit of it? Because it is like a driving motivator, though, being like, or at least maybe I, some other people, I'm sure, if you do get that beaten and you're like, you like, I'll show you on the next time, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00And just using that if you can keep your head, that's what I mean. Well, there's got to be a disconnect for me personally, and this might be totally different to any other athlete or fighter or whatever like that. For me, cool heads win fights, it's not a personal thing. For me, my game was technical. And I always found that my decision making was clouded when I was emotional.
SPEAKER_02So it's like you know it's there, that situation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it goes through the grief, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, go through the crying and the sooking and the and everyone telling you, oh man, they got ripped off and you know, pats on the back and rehash, goal set, try and go up again and try and another thing that you said very recently, um, which really stuck with me, was that you said everything hurts less when there is a massive intrinsic goal attached to it. What did you mean by this?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's it's it's goals what gets you through difficult periods. Who was I speaking about this?
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, like you could get I was just thinking, I was just talking about asking you for money outside. I was just telling it, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I had a similar conversation, I'm having deja vu. Um, but you can get elbowed in the face, right? Oh, it was me. In the middle of the fight. That was who you were talking to before. You get elbowed in the face and fight, and for some reason you keep on fighting. Yeah, but you kick your toe on the kitchen bench, like I said earlier, and you're rolling around on the floor. The the difference is the goal that you've attached to the thing it is that you're doing that gets you through the the tough moments. And that's why having a goal and being intrinsically motivated to go out there and achieve something is gonna get you through any real tough times. If you're deeply connected to the outcome of your business, you're gonna ride those lows when there's no money in the account, you're gonna ride those mornings when it's 5 a.m. and you've got to get up and go teach the class or clean the gym or whatever, like that, you'll get through it. Um, an employee, no connection, fuck, I'm out of here. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, you can only goal set and be engaged with something that pulls you to it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And with what you said about goal setting as well, you know, you've spoken a lot about goal setting, but when it comes to also manifesting, do you are you ever interested in any manifesting? Do you do any of that like in terms of lofty goals? Um, which when you first had them were probably like B hags, you know, yeah, like b hags. B hags?
SPEAKER_00No. Um, it's not my terminology, but big hairy, audacious goal. Okay. Is what we call them.
SPEAKER_02With manifesting. Well, you have you ever been interested in manifesting and like visualization and writing stuff down?
SPEAKER_00Definitely writing stuff down. I'm not a big uh getting in front of the mirror and saying it today. I will look and whatever. Yeah. Um but I'm I'm a fan of people doing whatever it whatever they're gonna do consistently. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? If that's your thing, cool, go for it. Um, but no, big big goal setter. Uh, I mean, this week has been a been a large goal set for the whole family with my kids and they're swimming, and that's a big part of what they do. And you know, this time of year we're doing financial forecasting and budgets. That's a that's a goal set. It's it's gotta be it's gotta be on a bit of paper, it's gotta be.
SPEAKER_02Do you have different maybe okay for the next week I want to achieve this next month, next year, this sort of thing? Like when it comes to muselling.
SPEAKER_00Look, we've ye yearly goals, and then there's but again it's got to be balanced. You know, your fitness is just as important as your business, yeah. Um, but but definitely goal goal setting's a big part of my whole family's life.
SPEAKER_02And how often do you revisit those goals that you've set?
SPEAKER_00It depends. So look, we we look at obviously financial financial goals for the business is yearly forecasting. Yeah. Um, and then every month there's a there's a a tweak and a change and a and a full action plan on reasons why we did, we didn't, or whatever. Um, health-wise, um, you know, I'm a big yearly person. Um you know, my my kids will be seasonal with swimming because there's long course and short course. So there's no real answer to the length of time, but the key is to um well the key is to write them down and take action. Seems so silly, but people will talk or talk and not go out and take any action at all. Yeah, which I just don't see the point in. Yeah, it's like um it's like watching porn.
SPEAKER_02I just don't understand why people watch this.
SPEAKER_00No, but you know what I mean? It's like it's not real. Yeah, yeah. You know, you can watch it, it looks looks great, and you might feel good in your head, but that's not it's not real, mate. You need to get out there and talk to analogy to think of on the spot. Yeah, just gonna drag a pawn. Uh we can cut that up. No, no, no, we're wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah, like it's fake, yeah. It's not real. It has to be action, it has to be action. Yeah, you've got to get it down. You know, it's like with with fuck, man, this fighters. Um, I want to be a fighter. I want to fight this year. I want to okay, great. Don't fight. Don't fight. Yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02That's a bit of me. I'm not gonna lie. I always wanted to compete in Muay Thai, and just as the years went on, I just never did.
SPEAKER_00Which is fine. Don't set it as a goal because it's painful for you. Yeah, it wasn't really a because all you feel like is you're letting yourself down.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it's painful for me because I've got to sit here and fucking watch you not do it. Yeah, it was more of a that'll be a fun thing to do this year, you know what I mean? And then like next year I'll have that same thought, and then and then what what's worse is you know you set the goal, yeah, which is fantastic, but the behaviours that underpin it aren't in line with that goal.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I want to I want to fight this year, fantastic. Run three times a week, track it, come to training four days a week, including sparring. Hang on a minute, yeah, hang on a minute.
SPEAKER_02So with your goals, yeah. So I have a thing that um Ilya Taporia, the UFC champion, said recently, he said that we can't predict, or he was like, we can't control our future, but we can control our habits, which control our future. Yeah. So when you're picking goals, yeah, yeah. He's he hadn't had that many times. When you're picking goals, do you then also uh what's the word? Assimulate behaviors which will help you help you achieve those goals. So it's not just like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna compete in Muay Thai this year. Under that layer of the goal, it's okay, what are the behaviors that I need to identify and attack?
SPEAKER_00Correct, yeah. Every every goal that you set should have a series of behaviours that underpin it.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um that being said, though, I feel like the older I've got, the the more my goals have been in the same direction. You know, I'm not I don't want to go out and run a not making a comeback. I would fuck no. Um but I'm not gonna go and I don't know run an adventure race.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you know what I mean? That's a new thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's not my bag. More power to you if you can, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_02But but you need to identify what behaviours will work the best. Yeah. And then is there another layer under that where it's okay, I've got the goal, I've realized what behaviours I need to do. Now it's how do we incorporate correctly?
SPEAKER_00Where does it fit? Yeah. Um, and how do you do it without it taking away from other areas? And again, it's balanced.
SPEAKER_02And the push-pool that you mentioned.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's got to it's got to be balanced in in goals.
SPEAKER_02One thing as well, we've talked about all these goals. How do you manage procrastination? Because I'm sure, you know, you're you're just about human. Yeah. How did you everybody has procrastination?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how do you deal with it? I'm in an environment where there's everything's state-driven, so I'm stuck either way. What do you mean? We want to open a gym, let's say. Well, you sign the lease, that's the day that's open. That's out of your control now. So procrastination, there's more pain associated with that than there is, you know, um, if I was to not have a deadline. So everything, everything should be timely, everything should have a day deadline. Uh, but majority of the stuff that if if I don't do something, there's a bit of a consequence.
SPEAKER_02So okay, so attaching a negative consequence, not only just you're gonna feel a bit lazy, but there's actually serious consequences.
SPEAKER_00You're gonna let them down, there's you know, financial implications, there's all sorts. And you call it force functions, do you say? Force functions. Um, you wanna I think we had again a conversation the other week, you want to go to the gym Monday morning, six o'clock, book it in with somebody you respect because you're not gonna let them down. That's a force function. Don't book in with somebody who's like that's why you get a personal trainer. You know, the pain's in the payment, but in your mind on a fitness level, they're a little bit higher than you, you're gonna make the effort to show up. You book it with your girlfriend. Um you know, after I'm not talking in courtship, I'm talking after a year and a half. Uh it's your anniversary the other day. A year and a half anniversary. You made it. Uh welcome to the show. Um more chance you're cancelling because it's like you know just snuggle and best. Yeah, it was uh a bit tired, you a bit tired, and you know, yeah. So those are force functions. So it'll be the same in business or you know, let's go, we're gonna meet at that coffee shop in Fremantle, we're gonna write, we're gonna let's let's spitball some ideas for XYZ.
SPEAKER_02What about in a scenario where you let's say you wanted to train at 530, but there's no one you know on earth who trains at 530? Yeah, and you can't have that, okay, I need someone who there who I don't want to let down or come. It's all on me. Yeah, how do you then build in that force function again? Do you just equate it to something else instead of like I know that this will massively negatively impact my mind later on in the day? So I have to do this, but again, procrastination can kind of play a role in that. Like, so how do you have those force functions when it's just you?
SPEAKER_00So, with with that kind of thing, I would say the the best way to tackle that is just just to be kind to yourself. Like start uh just do it once a week. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, start small. You start small, build it up, get your get your resilience to to doing that thing, and then the discipline will build and you'll be more consistent when you experience the positive side of it all. Worst thing you can do is alright, that's it, I'm gonna train at five o'clock every morning, Monday through Saturday, and from zero, and by Wednesday you can't get up from the toilet. Do you know what I mean? Because you train so hard. Thursday you're asleep at work, Friday you're on the back on the booze going, oh fuck, I'll start again Monday.
SPEAKER_02So you you have to have almost these mental agreements with yourself.
SPEAKER_00And and don't and it doesn't happen now. It's long, it's a long game. Consistency and discipline builds up over time.
SPEAKER_02What would you say helps build them up over time?
SPEAKER_00Winning.
SPEAKER_02So say like I wanted to wake up at 6 a.m. every day and go work out. You're like, okay, Robbie, maybe just start one day a week way better. So I can celebrate that. And like you did it. We did it, guys. And build that dopamine receptor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to just be nice. Yeah, be kind to yourself. Don't just overbook it and become disappointed because then you lose you lose faith in the action itself. Oh, I try to get up at 5am every day. It doesn't work. The gym doesn't work. Yeah. Well, it did, but you just didn't probably do it the right way. Yeah. So it's just slowly building up that new routine, kind of instead of it. Which if I would have heard myself say that at tw How old are you? 25. I would have fucking hated that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I mean, like, especially when it comes to morning routines, you want to have a routine. So you want it to be the same every day. Why do you want a morning routine? Just to maximize the day a bit more.
SPEAKER_00When do you do your best work? Yeah, in the evening. Okay, well then do that. My morning routine works for me. Yeah. That's my thing. It's not a it's not a you know, I get up at five o'clock in the morning. If your best work comes when your missus goes to sleep and the house is quiet, yes. Do that. And you just gotta. It's not something Robbie's told me. I don't know. I'm gonna get busted here. But no, do you know what I mean? If that's if that's how your day works, yeah, frame it around there. And just accept that that's how it is. Because you're gonna get the better results.
SPEAKER_02What are you what are you causing more friction? But I like to have time before 9 a.m. I like to have time to like I walk to the beach before 9 a.m. So at 9 a.m. when you know if I get a call from work, it's like I'm awake, you know what I mean? I'm ready. Yeah, but so it's like, well, if I'm already gonna be up at seven, then let's make the most of that, you know what I mean? And it's building that out, but then you can like flow if it's harder. So I guess like it would start as waking up at seven, but even just the whole thing you do your best work at night, isn't that just relative to how long you've been awake?
SPEAKER_00Well, so this is the problem. Like, just because I enjoy getting up at five and some asshole on TikTok thinks that that's the morning routine doesn't make it right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't make it right. You like chocolate ice cream, I like vanilla, it's different. Yeah, you and again, the your your systems should come out of the results you're getting. Yeah. Oh, do I get better results when I go to the beach at 7 a.m.? Okay, well, there's something in that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do I get better results when I stay up and work until whatever time?
SPEAKER_02So it's more like build your routine and your habits around what you know works best for you, not what you think would work best or what works best on Instagram.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know what I mean? If if you're blessed enough in the way where you're not accountable to a nine to five position, because obviously that's it's all well and good, you know, setting these weird and wonderful work hours, but if you can't pay your mortgage, or you're doing like then it becomes counterproductive. Yeah. So everything has a variable to it.
SPEAKER_02We've talking about with what were you saying earlier, you know, with different fighters coming up. I've heard that what really separates champions from other world-class fighters that just can't get that over that hump is mindset. Like it's not athletic ability, it's not skill. How would you recommend to someone then to develop a champion mindset? Like, how did you develop your champion mindset? And if you had a fresh 15-year-old who's just starting Muay Thai, how would you get him to grow that mindset into a championship mindset?
SPEAKER_00There's a number of people that um have been good in the gym and can't put it together in the boxing ring, um, who will go from gym to gym trying to find the solution as if it's the person who's on the other end of the pads, it's their fault, and it's not. It's really it really isn't. I think a lot of it comes from integration into the sport. So 15-year-old, I mean, you come into it, I mean, you come into it like I did. I'm surprised that I stayed in it because it's like the first interaction wasn't exactly a positive one. So we wanna we wanna make sure we layer these kids in and build confidence slowly over time. Um but I I don't understand it. It's like there's the the the answers to the universe are in our fingertips now. But just see it as the fighter needs to understand, the business person needs to understand, the whatever person needs to understand that that is a huge cog in the wheel of what success is and it needs to be focused on just as much as every other facet. And if we fail to do so, good luck.
SPEAKER_02Because yeah, I guess if you do have a strong confidence in it, you you could be so confident where the thought of being a champion is like, yeah, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_00But if you don't have that confidence to begin with, yeah, and look, and people are working on different levels of anxieties, people working on, and again, different foundations at home, so they're not all starting at the same at the same spot. Um but you throw a bit of trauma in a kid getting his head punched in for the first couple of years. Yeah, and it's you know, it's hard to come back from.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's hard about it.
SPEAKER_00Treat it like a muscle. Yeah, like you said earlier. Get out and train it. Yeah, and if you do that consistently enough, you will still have your ups and downs. Sometimes you'll be shitting yourself because this guy's a amazing that you're fighting, and sometimes you feel great. And training that would be positive talk, counting the wins, that sort of thing. Yeah, awareness, goal set, um, reflection. Yeah, you know, honesty. Yeah, where am I at? Where what's my next step? Who's my next measuring stick? You know?
SPEAKER_02So it'd be like developing a champion mindset would almost be like instead of imagining it's like a thing on the clouds, imagine it's a tangible thing that you can just work towards. Yeah, correct. And all of a sudden it doesn't be it goes from a dream to a plan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I mean I mean simple like you write your goals. I mean I had uh one of the girls at um at Bible Lake recently, you know, write the goals down and plaster them all up over the house. And it's the job is when you go to the fridge, you read your goals, and then you go on the fridge. And you've done that. You go brush your teeth, you read the goals. Yeah. That's an exercise. It's a little bit of strength. That's the manifestation, I suppose, of what you're saying. Uh hope is, oh, I'm just gonna get fit, I'm gonna get strong, and and hopefully on fight night, I'm just gonna like like what the fuck? Something's gonna change. Like it's just ludicrous.
SPEAKER_02And did you do that as well? You had stuff all over the house that you would consider. Later on.
SPEAKER_00Like I'm not, like I said, I've I I've just felt it all from invincible to terrible and every gamut in between.
SPEAKER_02What's one thing about running a business? Because you've obviously built uh a bit of an empire in Perth, but also over East. What's something about running a business that people who have never been a CEO or run their own business, what's something that they wouldn't know that isn't obvious, that you'd only find out from doing it?
SPEAKER_00It's a tough, it's a tough journey, you know, in in Australia. Uh, I don't know, you know, I don't want to say the tall poppy stuff is is hard to deal with because that sounds arrogant. Like I think I'm amazing, but it's like people generally have your back as you're growing, you know, and and um you do lose a lot of people uh when you're as in close friends and things like that as you move, as you sort of get better at business.
SPEAKER_02Um so culture relationships with pursuit, you've definitely built up a culture with amongst the staff, amongst the trainers and the athletes who train here. How do you make sure that culture continues and stays similar with expanding to new territories over East?
SPEAKER_00Yes, it is difficult. And believe me, I don't have a hundred percent cracked that secret yet because I've hired some spanners, you know what I mean? If in every in every organization you you hire someone and you think was amazing, and you go, oh no, I don't know how that one slipped through the cracks. Um but I'm not exactly easy to work with myself, so uh I get that. Um higher attitude first, higher moral standing, higher uh I mean obviously you want some experience in whatever it is you're doing, um, but we can teach you any skill associated with running health clubs or studios or whatever gym we're opening, from reformer Pilates to Muay Thai to you know the whole gamut, uh I can't teach you will. Right? So um, and that's that's the key. You can have all the degrees, you can have all the bells and whistles. If you do not have the will, I can't after being on this planet for 25 years, I can't grow that in you. Um but I can teach you. So it's it's the it's the will first.
SPEAKER_02And it comes for so it's keeping that culture, it comes from who you hire and who you put into positions of power, basically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, put any position, and being the right position for the right player to work with in. Yeah. Um an administrator who's a good solid administrator who's detail oriented, maybe doesn't speak to members, um, is a very different behavior, uh, personality type to the person I need ranting and and yelling and motivating and being the pulse at 5 45 on a Tuesday morning. Um so personality type and and behaviors first.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, I did have a question on the personality types, but the cameras keep dying, so we might have to revisit that at a later point. But yeah, probably wrap it up there. Thank you so much again for doing this. Like I feel like very valuable insight, not just for Muay Thai, but for mindset applying to anything. So really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00You're welcome. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, of course.