Why Most People Never Take the Leap with Jen Sincero

In this episode of PodCrash, Matt Ebert sits down with Jen Sincero, bestselling author of You Are a Badass, for a conversation about fear, money, identity, habits, and what it really takes to change your life. Jen explains why so many people stay stuck by doing the same things harder, how old thought patterns quietly shape your results, and why changing your identity matters just as much as changing your behavior. She also talks about money mindset, the fear of outgrowing people around you, and why taking action that scares you can be one of the clearest signs that you are moving in the right direction. Matt and Jen also get into the story behind You Are a Badass, the rejections she faced before the book broke through, and why persistence, energy, and belief matter when you are trying to build something bigger than your current circumstances. Want more Matt in your life? Of course you do! (https://www.instagram.com/mattebertcc/) (https://www.facebook.com/MattEbertCC) (https://twitter.com/mattebertcc/) (https://www.tiktok.com/@mattebertcc) (https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-ebert-7169a5180/) Get paid while you learn on the job at Crash Champions: https://step.crashchampions.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So happy to have you uh with me today, Jen. I'm looking forward to this conversation because I'm one who's uh subscribed and read to a lot of self-help books in my life. Curious, you know, it is such a seems like such a crowded space. What made you what made you want to enter it and think you had something different?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Well, you know, when I first was introduced to self-help, it was, you know, like many people because I was sort of a train wreck and I read every single book that was out there, and they all helped me so much. And I, you know, and I was a writer at the time, still am, I guess. Uh and I read them all and they all were so helpful. And I was like, but you know, where are the funny ones? Where are the ones that use curse words and you know they're a little more edgy. So I I felt like I could add a new voice to the to the genre, not necessarily a ton of new information, but just a different approach that I think a lot of people who are sort of snarky like me would then gain access to it because it was a little edgier.

unknown 0:57

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

The one the style that you would want to read that what resonated with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Aaron Powell Exactly. It's a book I wanted to read.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

So it's all and that's probably exactly why it worked, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I hope so. I mean, I feel like it definitely welcomed in people who may not have allowed themselves to read something like that and get caught, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

If you were to sum up like most common mistakes most most all people like I know you do a lot of coaching too or have in the past, besides the obvious answer of what's between our ears, where where do most people get stuck? Do you find do you find a recurring theme often?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah, I mean it is what's between your ears, certainly. You know, where they I think where they get stuck is uh they keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. So that's where working harder comes in, which really rarely helps. And I think also hanging out with people who are at the same level or below, I think is a really common mistake, especially when, you know, when you decide to really go for it and change your life, the people that you were surrounding yourself with often haven't been doing that. And so when you take the leap to really make a bold move, it's painful. And this is a lot of I think this is a big reason why a lot of people don't go for it is because you kind of outgrow the people you've been hanging out with. Not to say you have to ditch everybody you've known and loved your whole life, but you have to be available for that relationship to change. And I think unconsciously, a lot of people aren't, they're scared. You know, our our most primal fear is the fear of abandonment. So I think that without realizing it, that's a big thing that stops people.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah, I think that I've I've noticed that in my own life too. And it and it could be family, could be friends. Oh, yeah. They're trying to be helpful, by the way. They're not trying to do you wrong. They're just they're operating in that same fear of change, fear of like the the comfort level not not being there with what you're with what you're undertaking. So it's their own fight or flight that's kind of in their advice to you in those kind of times.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

They're scared of losing you too. You know, you're scared of losing them, they're scared of losing you. And everybody can, you know, rise to the occasion, and it certainly happens a lot. But that you know, have you ever heard of the crab effect? Have you ever heard that expression?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

I haven't heard that expression now. I'm curious though.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

So yeah, it's where like if you put a bunch of crabs in a bucket and one of them starts to crawl out, they'll all pull it back down. Oh, it's like, don't go, don't leave us.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

That's a whole new visual for for me for somebody. Friendships or relationships that are holding you back. There's a new visual that is there.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

What would you say is like the most underrated habit or behavior that people can do if they're trying to trying to break free, so to speak, get unstuck?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Oh God, which one? There's so many good ones. I'm gonna say pausing, pausing before you speak and even pausing before you think. Because you know, there's some crazy statistic that like 90% of all of our thoughts are the same thoughts we thought yesterday. You know, we get into these thought ruts. And as you said, what's between your ears matters most. So if you can get into the habit of really catching yourself when you get into like a thought process about the way things are, a thought about like solving a problem, a thought about how hard it is, the economy, the competition, you know, whatever, stop being on autopilot and pause and be like, wow, is there another way that I could think this thought or another idea that I could look towards that I haven't been looking towards? It's just it's that that it's that sort of stepping outside of yourself and being the watcher when it comes to your thoughts and the way you speak, and getting into the habit of sort of uh they call it pattern interrupt, interrupting the own pattern of your thoughts is huge. Once you get good at that, you really gain control over your mind, which then changes your entire life, basically.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

You know, I have to believe you went there for for a reason for me, because one of the things I'm working on as we speak is pausing in conversation. Because in my review of uh interviews or podcasts like this, I find myself using filler words that annoy me that I'm trying to get rid of. And they're telling me what it is is I have to pause. And if I get comfortable with a pause, I'll be able to do that a whole lot less. Now you're talking about it when thinking about your whole life, but I'm working on it when it comes to conversation as we as we speak. And it's not easy for me.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

We get because we were so habits are so thick with us, and I always think of it sort of like uh like the Grand Canyon, you know. The longer you do something, the deeper and deeper and deeper the groove. So, you know, water running over a rock takes a long time, but we've been doing things our entire lives, and we've got these deep grooves of habits. So when you switch a habit, it's exactly like what you're doing. It's baby steps. You just start, and then you start building a new groove.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

You talk about it's not just necessarily changing, changing a habit, but it it's really kind of changing who you believe you are in a way. It's something you've talked about. Can you can you explain that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Aaron Powell Again, it's kind of this identity is a habit. So we have a lot of unconscious beliefs about who we are and the way things are. And when when you're being somebody different, it's like you you are now somebody who pauses before he speaks. Like that is that's sort of an identity, you know. The way we speak is our identity. And so when you can um, you know, so like I I often used um the example of quitting smoking because I love cigarettes. Okay. But um I also like living.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

And um so I am the two might not go, the two might not go together, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

And breathing. So when I uh decided to quit smoking uh decades ago, it I realized that it really was an identity shift more than you know throwing away the cigarettes and you know pinching myself every time I wanted one or whatever I was doing in the physical world. But it was more about imagining myself as somebody who was really healthy, who took great care of her body. The word smoking didn't even come into the picture for me. It was more just envisioning healthy lungs and being in shape and being in control of my life, because for me, a lot of the cigarette smoking was about control. Like I couldn't watch an entire movie without leaving before it ended because I was craving a cigarette so badly. So it was about imagining myself as the person I wanted to be and and and embodying what that felt like and and and it really is visceral, it can't all be in your head. So, you know, how does she walk? How does she, you know, carry herself? What does she think about? And uh that really helped me in a in a pretty profound way. And so, you know, whatever anybody listening to this is is trying to accomplish or become, really think about how that new person carries themselves, what they eat for lunch, what they talk about, what they think about, what they focus on, what they look at. Like what are all those things in that beingness and how they feel in their body?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

I think that's great advice because it it's really um forming, it's reforming kind of your beliefs around it, right? That's helping. To the response when you're working with people, does anybody say to you that feels phony? So I've it it'd be, you know, if I'm a smoker and I'm imagining myself as a non-smoker, it feels phony, or if uh for me it would be if I imagine myself super in shape, like I it would feel it would it wouldn't feel like something I can't pay attention to and get to, but it would feel phony because I I'm not working out three times a day. So to envision myself as that person fe feels a little phony to me as an example.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Okay, that's great. Uh yeah, it is because it's not it hasn't manifested yet. So it's phony in the physical, but it ain't phony in the in the energetic, and it always starts with the energy, and that's why you know, going back to between the ears, it starts as an energy, as a thought. Everything physical starts out as a thought. So yeah, it is phony in the physical for the time being. Uh but that's how it becomes real in the physical. It starts with that energy and that thought.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

I I I believe that too. Some of your book and books like that that talk about it really starts with our our thinking patterns, what we think about and what our beliefs are really do affect. If you can't think it in your mind first, I feel like it's impossible for it to happen in the physical unless it's by pure pure luck and chance. Um so you have to think it first. Most people though would hear that. There's probably a huge number that have read your book or or books like it. Why do you think they don't do it? Because it's just in your head. It doesn't even seem very hard. But it is.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Well, a couple of reasons. Habit.

unknown 10:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

You're in the habit of not thinking it. You're also in the habit of impatience and looking at the lack. So it's like, you know, I want to make a million dollars this year. You're looking at the fact that you've never done it before, you're looking at the fact that it's hard, that it hasn't come yet. There's all these things that you're focused on when if you could just stay in the excitement and the possibility and the, I just want to see what I can get away with. If I can make a million bucks this year, make it lighter, make it fun, just stay in that energy instead of the fear and the doubt and the worry and all that stuff. But we're habituated to that. You know, we're thought of pie in the sky, Pollyanna, phony if we think that way. There's all this negative stuff put on it, which is honestly why I tell everybody who's really serious about changing their lives, like, don't talk about it to people who don't get it. They're just gonna call you a weirdo and you know, say you're, you know, high, and you know, what who do you think you are and all that stuff. So just be in the we're on a planet in infinite space. That's what I always go back to. Like, why couldn't you make a million bucks in a year if you've never done it before? This whole trip is completely bizarre.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yeah. And and the great thing about some of what you're saying too is other people have done it, so it can be done.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Right. And people who are dumber than you and not as interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Like Yeah. So that that loop that you're speaking of where how long do you think you have to stick with that line of thinking for it to actually start to stick?

SPEAKER_00 12:23

That's a great question. I think, you know, this is this is why I always talk about what I call the spiritual gym. I don't think there's a certain amount of time per person that you have to do it, but you do, it's like any other muscle. Motivation and belief and shifting your energy is a muscle. And so you don't get to go to the gym and work out and get in shape and then be like, sweet, I'm in shape, and then stop going to the gym. You have to continually work the muscles to stay in that shape. So having a positive, you know, affluent mindset that you can do anything is a muscle, and you've got to keep it in shape. So the spiritual gym is anything that makes you remember to focus on the things that you want rather than the lack of them. So it's reading self-help books every day, it's listening to music that makes you feel like you can flip over a car, it is meditation, it's hanging out with great people, it's having a, you know, a uh, what's the partner, accountability partner that you talk to every couple of days? You know, there's all these things that, you know, and everybody has different ones that really work for them, but you've got to keep your energy strong and you've got to go to the spiritual gym every day. Even if it's just 15 minutes, it matters so much.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

What would you do in those 15 minutes?

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Well, personally, I listen to some of my spiritual teachers every single solitary morning. I meditate, um, I go through phases with the reading of the self-help books. I, you know, when I was really massively shifting myself from being basically impoverished into making money. And, you know, the whole money thing too, like wealth consciousness, and there's so much negativity about making money, and rich people suck and all that stuff. So you've got to really do a lot of wealth consciousness when you, you know, shifting that when you're working on it. But I was really diligent to the point where I put a moratorium on listening to Neil Young, because I love Neil Young, but he's really depressing. So I was like, I'm gonna do this. It's gotta be ACDC, it's gotta be, you know, it's gotta be whatever it is. But it's I was very um strict with myself about and you know, no sad sacky friends. Like I stopped hanging out with certain people or at least, you know, pulled away. I was I was very um protective of my energy.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

I wanna I want to go there because I really appreciate what you say uh about thinking around money, because I grew up where, look, the money being the root of all evil is the the phrase you hear as a kid. Um I I found that because my family didn't have money, they often felt that those who had a lot of money got went about it dishonestly, or somebody had to lose for the other person to be so advantaged. So that's what I saw growing up personally. I I really do believe that the way you think about money matters. And it took me going reading some books, going to seminars, you know, simple books like Rich Dad Poor Dad as an example of the way that that I you know say my upbringing taught taught me to think versus the way I should start to think. Um I I firmly believe it. Do you find that it's not like an aha moment for everyone though, when you when you when you present that?

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Well, that's because anybody, if I told anybody, I'm just I'm gonna give you 10 grand, they'd be psyched. So they'd be like, I don't have a problem receiving money. So in our conscious mind, we think we're good with it, but unconsciously there is such a cesspool, and and everything that you mentioned, you know, that people, if you're gonna get rich, you have to compromise your morals. Um, you know, you're gonna be taking something from somebody else. These are all the human being is not that original in their in their freakouts, you know. I I mean that's why therapy works, because we're so patterned and we're like all following the same things. So, but um, but you have to go deeper than the I'm fine with making money. I don't because you if you're not making any, you you definitely have some stuff around it. And it's so important to look at that and it's so great that you were able to step aside. And I, you know, I I recommend in both my in Badass at making money and you are a badass, um, to write a letter to money as if it's a person and just do stream of consciousness. So it's like, you know, when I did it, it was, you know, I love you, I wish I had more of you, but I don't really trust that you're gonna stick around and I feel filthy even saying out loud that I want you. Like if you really go into it, you start digging it up, you know, digging up some things. But you know, I will say that the one thing that really cracked me open because I did those letters and absolutely they were incredibly revealing. Did you save them? Uh you know, they're probably somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, that would be interesting. Uh and you know, believe me, I still have stuff around money. You know, I'm sure, you know, new level, new devil, you start making it, and then it's it's all the other stuff comes out of the swamp, you know. I'm really cheap about parking. Like, I I like I'd rather drive around for half an hour than pay two bucks to park. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Really? Really?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Really weird in certain ways, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

I don't have that problem. But I will say, like, I'm uncomfortable to this day with other people picking up the tab, for example, at dinner. Like, and and I don't know why. It's just um, and so I I know even though I've done a lot of work on it, I know there's still some junk in there. What what I think affects me more though is because of the thinking that most people have, like in in my business, like I'm dependent on my teammates and the and everyone at each of these locations. And you know, in business expressions like profit's not a dirty word, and like I struggle with it because other people struggle with it too. And you know, suggesting that, hey, you've got you're here for this damage on your car right you know that got hit, but you also have this other damage in the back. Let me maybe I can be helpful and fix that at the same time. But our people feel like that's pushy and being salesmany. So I feel like my team in general can still have some struggles with this. Not just in an individual level, but just in general.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Absolutely. I get it. And you know, sales is such an interesting, interesting thing. It's it's so similar to all the squeamishness we have around money, but when you really think about it, money is just a tool that gives you freedom and options. That's really it. And sales is just alerting people to how you can help them. So why are we all so weird about it? And and honestly, like if you have a salesperson who comes up to you and is and is weird and desperate and you know, hungry, feel like their energy has everything to do with it. And if you've got a salesperson who's like, hey, I can do this and I see some damage back here, and we can do that. Like, if you don't have weirdness around it, that's that's all that matters. And that will translate. I mean, some people still will think what they think, but you know, it's just when you meet certain people that just uh don't give a crap what anybody else thinks about them, unapologetic for who they are, you know, that energy, you feel it, and uh you believe them. You know what I mean? So it really is an inside job. Before selling anything, you've got to get really clear with the fact that you are simply alerting to somebody to how you can help them and what is so wrong with that.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Is this the main problem you addressed in the in the badass series of uh books, the one on money? Is this is that what you is belief around money the biggest thing that you address in that book?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Um pretty much, yeah. Because it it it expresses itself in so many different ways. You know, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

You started out describing it as almost like sex. How do how do those two relate?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Well, it's really interesting. When you write your letter to money and you're like, I love you and I want you, but I don't trust you're gonna stick around. And you could flip it literally. It's pretty uh again, not so original as humans, but when you write a letter to money, it has a lot to do with how you feel about intimacy. It's really cool. It's actually the same chakra, if you will. Like it's all it's it's you know, it's it's abundance and you know, it's just all tied up together. It's it's fascinating. You really bust yourself on a lot of your limiting beliefs when you write these letters, and they're interchangeable with money and intimacy.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

So do you have an aha moment or a series of aha moments in your life that you discovered these things and then were able to go help others with them? Where where did it where did it come from for you?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Well, with the money, you know, my whole foray into the self help stuff was around money because I was I was living a pretty fun life and everything was pretty good, but I was living in a garage, you know, driving a totally crappy car with no grill and The whole thing. And then I was in my 40s, you know, and I was like, are you kidding me? Like, it was, you know, being broke sucks, obviously, because you can't do anything, but it was also this feeling inside me that was like, this is the best I can do on earth. And I again, I was seeing all these bozos making great money, doing all his stuff, and I was like, I'm a better writer than them. I'm, you know, whatever, I can do whatever.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So then I started going to all the seminars, reading all the self-help books, doing all the things, and I and one moment that really blew my mind was I was in a seminar. I've been going to a lot of, you know, seeing a lot of coaches speak and whatever. And this one guy was on stage, and it was like he was speaking right to me and you know, talking about my financial deal, to a tea, the way I was thinking, what I was scared of, all the things. And I really wanted to work with him. And at the end, um, he pitched his, you know, coaching programs, and he had a private coaching program that I really wanted to take, and it was $85,000 a year. And at the time, I was making $28,000, $30,000, something like that. But I had been doing so much work on my wealth consciousness and just how I think about money that it allowed me, and this was so big, you guys. It was like it was like moving a 10-ton gorilla, like in the old.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

It's three times what you make. It's three times what you make with this price tag.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Right. Right. How absurd would it be for me to even consider working with this guy? So, but instead of the going directly to the long list of three times what I make, that's like the most who is this dude? Like snake oil sales, like you can't afford it, like all of the gazillions of very rational, appropriate excuses because I've been doing so much work on my wealth consciousness. Instead of going into that Grand Canyon rut, I went to, how am I gonna get 85 grand to work with this guy? And I'm getting chillsy when talking about it now. Just that shift in mindset. I and I I get this a lot. I don't know if you ever get this, but I get like images, like flashes of images a lot when I'm really in it. And I got this image of my dad who um he always wore these, like he was an Italian immigrant, you know, worked really hard his whole life to provide for us, and he always wore these little uh yellow V-neck sweaters and sneakers. And I just got this crystal clear image of my dad in his outfit with his hands in his pockets, looking down at his feet, so sad, because if I got really rich, I would outshine him. And also, one of the ways that he showed how much he loved me was to give me money. And I realized in that moment, I was like, oh my God, just thinking that I could possibly find $85,000 of work with this guy put me into a completely different identity as somebody who could make $85,000 to do this, not the the schmo who's living in the garage. And it it allowed me to see the main thing in my soul that was stopping me from making money is that I it was like stabbing my dad in the heart. And it changed and then I started visualizing him being happy for me, and you know, and then it was so interesting when I started really raking in the dough, you know, I'd be on the phone with my dad, and I'd tell him, you know, I made a couple million, and and at the end of the conversation, he would always be like, Well, um, do you need any help? And I'd be like, Yeah, could you float me a couple hundred? He'd be like, I'll send you a couple hundred. So I got a couple hundred, he felt good, it's all good. But it was so deeply ingrained in him that that's how you show your kids how you love them. And that's what was stopping me mostly.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah, powerful discovery for you.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

And pretty common, like people not wanting to outshine their parents. So another way to really bust yourself in your um in your limiting beliefs about money is to take a terrifying leap in the direction of making it, and it will come up for you in some way, believe me.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

With all of the ferocity because it's so do better than their parents, arena, people struggle with that, huh?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Oh, yeah. Yes. But whatever your personal one is, when you take terrifying action in the direction of your goal, it will come up like mine came up in an image, but it will come up for you because you your subconscious self is trying to protect you from killing your old identity, basically. So when you take that leap, that is one of the most powerful ways, if not the most powerful way. But you know, the one piece of advice that I give everybody at the end of all my podcasts is do something that scares the crap out of you every single day if you want to change your life. Like in the direction of your goal. Do the thing you're terrified to do.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

That's it, that's great advice. Thank you. Yeah. I think the one thing, too, that can't be underestimated is how powerful of a motive uh motivator fear is, too, and your own self-doubt. So it's almost like a constant battle of the energy, the good energy you're bringing in the way you think, and the fear, self-doubt, and whatever else battles it just as hard.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Sure. Yeah, and um and I always say, you know, sort of tagging onto what we were just talking about, you know, your fears are also your greatest compasses because you got to where you are right now by doing what you've been doing. And that's not scary anymore because that's comfortable and familiar. And when you are terrified, uh, that means you're about to do something differently because humans are terrified of the unknown more than anything else. And uh so your fear can be a really great compass that you're headed in the right direction.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

I try to describe it to people that to think of something that they really anything in life that they really, really, really, really, really, really, really wanted. And I'm not talking about like the girl I was chasing in high school that just didn't like me, because you can't you can't change other people. Right. Um but anything that is possible for for you that you can control that you really really really really wanted, can you name any of them that you didn't get? Um and I can't of something that I really really wanted so badly, other than changing the way another person felt about me in that one example. Damn it. Um there there isn't one that I could name. Um and so I try to use that to convince people that of the power in it, but I I don't think everybody's a subscriber.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

A subscriber to believing that you can get what you want?

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah. Well, we live in a we live in it's so interesting too, and it's like, oh, when it all started, it must have been, you know, gaining control over the masses to keep us all in fear because we live in such a fear-based society. And I do think there is primal fear, you know, like going out on your own, risking abandonment to go change and go after your dreams, you know, then you're booted from the tribe and you die if you're alone in the jungle, kind of thing. However, you also meet new people who are at your level. So that's like, you know, it is dangerous and also it leads to incredibly you know, unthought of miracles coming into your life. But uh, but I think also, uh, yeah, we just we live in a society that promotes fear because it's addictive in a way. You know, TV and the news and all the things, it's all so it's all the awful stuff shoved in our faces 24-7. And uh and it it I don't know, it's like sugar for humans. So getting out of that habit.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Unfortunately, it seems to me, too, that that also is what brings you more shit, so to speak, I guess. Like the same way it works, like whatever you're concentrated on, whatever you're putting energy toward, whatever you really, really, really want, you can accomplish. But on the other side, what whatever you really, really, really, really don't want, and you're putting that much energy toward that, you just attract more of that too, it it seems to me.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

100%.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Yep. So you've you've done all this in helping other people. The great thing is is probably in coaching or in those, you know, reading your books, they they're at a point to where they they feel like they w need and want help. So it's not like you're trying to force it on people that aren't in the in some way craving it, I guess. Where do you start? If if I came to you for coaching back in the day, you start with digging out my demons, or or where where's your starting point?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, pretty much. It really all starts from awareness of what you've got going on now because again, we're all so unconscious of the rut and the thoughts. And also, you know, and I love that you've brought up in the beginning about being phony, because we um also really um believe reality.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

So I'm living in a garage, I'm driving a crappy car, I'm making 28 grand, I'm in my 40s, I am a loser. And this is the proof that I am a loser. And so what happens is when our environment reflects our mindset back to us, we take it as the truth. And so there is a really great book that I've read 600,000 times. This was the book that really got me through it was uh The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Waddles. Have you ever read that one?

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Um yes. Uh it's been a while though. Um but sound th Think and Grow Rich was the one that I read. I don't know about I don't know about 600,000 times, but I read it tens of tens and tens of times.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Right, right, right. So this is the same turn of the century, old crusty white guy, you know. Uh and it's uh anyway, there was a line in that book that I put in you are a badass, because it's so profound to me anyway. Um, to think what you want to think is to think the truth, regardless of appearances. So this is a whole thing about being phony and mindset. So it's like garage, crappy car, loser. But I had to start thinking I can find $85,000. I had to stop staring at what I didn't want and what I didn't like and talking about how hard everything was and just be in the new space. And, you know, this is where mantras come in, this is where meditation comes in because meditation just quiets your mind away from the old story. And I'm a big believer that it's very hard to go a hundred miles in one direction and suddenly go a hundred miles in the other direction, right? You've got to stop for a minute before you can turn around and speed up in the other direction. So it's very hard and probably impossible to go from I'm a big fat loser, I don't make any money, I'm in my 40s in a garage, to money flows to me easily and freely, everything is available for me, blah blah blah blah. You have to kind of just slow down the momentum and just keep catching yourself in that when you're like, oh, look at that. I am thinking that I'm a big fat loser and I don't know anything about money. Look at that. I'm just thinking that. And then just sitting in that for a moment and unhooking from it and energetically just feeling what it feels like, but but not being in that knee-jerk identity, you know, habit and rut, the Grand Canyon, of thinking those thoughts. So you just slowly start catching yourself. So when I started coaching people, we would figure out what their need, we would just have a conversation and I would ask them about money and their their upbringing and blah, blah, blah, and you know, catch them in their in their negative thoughts. And that's that's where we would start, was to just unhook from that at the beginning, and then you can start moving in the other direction.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

Okay, very good. I I've heard you mention chakras a a couple times and mantras. Do you do you do a lot of work around that or around and energy work, I guess I would describe it?

SPEAKER_00 34:32

I don't that that that's the only chakra I know about. But um, but that really interested me that money and sex were the same chakra. I just would say that makes sense to me. Uh, but I do a lot of energy work. I think everything we're energetic creatures. We live in an energetic universe. I'm sure you've seen this a million times. You know, what you accomplished, I'm sure there was like countless other guys doing the same exact amount of work as you, doing the same things, but you were working on your energy too, and what was you know between your ears, and you got really successful. So it is almost more important than what you're doing is shifting your energy first and then taking action. Because when you take action out of fear and smallness and doubt, that's what you're gonna create. So you gotta just unhook from that stuff, take a breather, and then take action. Because it'll come out totally differently.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

What I what do you see as far I feel like a part of the problem is a lot of times people don't really know what they want. It's hard to put energy toward not when you don't even know what it is that that you really want. And what I found is that especially if it's vague, like for me, the vis the what's come along for me over time is the vision getting clearer and clearer and me enunciating it clearer and giving details that matter to other people who in the company, for example. Like, I can't just say I use this simple example of I can't say to you I'm gonna go build a house, because what you just pictured in your mind is gonna be far different than what's in my mind unless we talk about it. Well, what is it brick? Is it how big is it? How many car garages, like all the details start to matter in the vision. But I feel like a lot of people, even though they might be unhappy, don't really know what what they want.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Well, I'm honestly personally in that spot right now because I've I've decided to uh put down the badass stuff. It may come back. Okay, but I've been doing it for you know 20 years. I've been coaching, self-help, all the things. And uh and I was like, I can I can do anything and what do I want to do? And I'm just like, I really don't know. And so I am finding what I what I did, what I've done a couple times is I make what I call a love list. Okay and you and everybody should do this regardless of where you are, I think, because it's so important. We have such a finite amount of time on planet Earth. So it's like write down everything you love, like love, not just like. So it's gotta be like anything from dancing to holding hands to making money, like eating shrimp, you know, whatever your thing is. Write it all down, the stuff that just lights you up, and you know, make sure you're doing that stuff, like make it a priority. Don't just notice that you like it, but have you made plans to go backpacking if that's something you love? Like make the things you love to do a priority. And I think for those of us who are sort of in that in-between space, I think making a love list is very important. And I think taking action is super important because you can mull things over in your mind forever, and there's always, for every single solitary thing you could do in this life, there are a gazillion reasons not to do it and a gazillion reasons to do it. And if you're just in your mind, you're gonna be in that back and forth. So take action towards something you love to do and just see where it goes because you're gonna get information on what you do like and what you don't like, and then you keep going, taking baby steps towards what you do like.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, I'll be curious to catch up with you after uh some months or a year here when once you figure it out. What what I believe too is you've created the space for what's next now.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Sometimes when there's the universe kind of hates a vacuum and fills it with something. So um you're being intentional about trying to figure out what you want to fill it with. You'll you'll you'll it it hopefully it's a you'll know it as soon as you see it kind of moment for you.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's gonna be patience is I know patience is my big lesson on earth, and I'm getting like a B minus at this point. So I feel like being patient and waiting for that. You know, and then in the meantime, taking my little baby steps and noticing what I like, but also just being patient and know that it will come. I'm not I'm not concerned about that.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Well, patience, by the way, I think is a bit of a societal issue today because everything is instant. And probably that's why people get frustrated in thinking big and thinking about goals too, because internet would have you think it happens overnight for everyone, and it's a I mean, my company took 20 years before it started to take off. You talked about how many years did you work on the badass series before or the you know the foundational work before you wrote the book that ended up taking off. It it doesn't happen quickly.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

That's such a great point. You're right. We are in such a fast, fast society now.

unknown 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah. I remember, well, shoot. I was uh embarrassingly born before microwaves, right? So I remember like cooking used to take longer than it does now. Eyeglasses come in an hour, oil changes in five minutes, right? Not everything around us is super fast, let alone what the what technology shows us on social media, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah. Totally. No, you make such a good point. Like, how is anybody not like falling apart into a crippled heap at you know, when something takes more than three minutes? Because that's really what we're expecting now. Well at a mold.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Do you think that you know there's there's some advice out there that keeping goals in front of you, writing down short-term goals, long-term goals, keeping those in front of you, reading them every day, is that stuff that you think is necessary?

SPEAKER_00 40:54

I don't think it's as necessary. I think if you can read them and get excited, I think what is necessary is your energy. So if when you look at your goal, it fills you with excitement and like remembering that's what you want and that's good, then that 100%. If you look at your goal and it makes you feel like, oh man, how the hell am I gonna pull that off? Like I am nowhere near that goal. It's all about your energy. So if your goal's too far out in the future, move it back. Move it to the point where it feels exciting to you. It's all about how you feel. You know, we are creatures who are motivated by emotion, not conscious thought. You know, like how many times have you known something was gonna a really bad idea, but it was gonna be super fun, and so then you go do it, you know? So we are we are much more motivated by that energy. So keep your energy high. That is the most important part.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

How do you talk about the stick toitiveness that that might be required? Let's let's use your let's use your book for an example. Like, did publisher number one sign you up and off it went? Um so there's a level of like hard work that in my experience has to take place.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

And and most don't want to stick with it.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Totally. You know, again, that's where the energy comes in. No, the badass, you know, and I also have a very firm belief that when you write something down, it comes true. And so my whole book was about facing your fears and walking through the valley of darkness, and boy, I have to, and you know, and do you ever listen to that podcast? How uh how I built this, the entrepreneurial podcast?

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah. Yes. So pretty much every single story, like your story, my story, every most people who build something had a moment where like the entire store got flooded or burned down, or like you hear it all the time of these huge catastrophes happening either right before success or when you're getting going, and it's because they persevered that they made it to the other side. And because I am very energetically focused, I do believe that we are such powerful creatures that our subconscious will fuck it up for us because we don't want to change and be abandoned by those we love and kill our old identity. So that's when the water main in your house explodes, and you know, it happens a lot. So it is about tenacity, it's about keeping that belief strong, that excitement about the project strong. Like, I don't know what your methods were for it, but when when I was trying to get badass published, we got rejected by every single publisher. And it was my third book, and I had an agent, I had a publisher that I'd worked with, my first two books did okay. I mean, nowhere near this thing, but um uh but even all those people were like, like the world needs another self help book. And I was like, I know, I know, but I'm saying it in a different way, like it's this thing. And then like the last publisher at the very end of the earth took us on. And then there was a huge problem with that where I had to um Get rid of that deal. Like I we got into this whole creative conflict, and I had to, I was gonna give them their money back and self-publish because my agent was like, we will not find another publisher if you don't do what they say. And I was like, I don't agree with the way this is going, and I'm not being, you know, power player, whatever. I'm embarrassed to put my name on the book the way it's about to come out. And um, and it was the most terrifying thing I ever did because I knew if I had to self-publish it, I didn't want to do that. I didn't know anything about it. It was disheartening, but I was so sure about how I wanted this book to be that I went against the biggest thing I was scared of. And we ended up working it out, and they ended up publishing it, and then this, you know, then it turned into the yellow beast. But but you know, I'm curious like what happened with yours that you pushed through.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Yeah, um a little bit of n couldn't quit. Well um there I used to I I always viewed it as I can't quit, so I need to figure out how to make make this work. That's what I would that's what I would tell people that worked for me when we were smaller. Like the the thing is is you can go quit and start somewhere else tomorrow. I I unfortunately am so tied to this, I can't. So obviously could have went and started from scratch and uh something else again, but I always viewed it as um this is the ship, I I have to make it make it go. Um, and that of course inspired the persistence that's needed. I never looked at at quitting as an option. I didn't even consider it, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Right. See, that's a great one. That's that's totally like burning all the bridges. You can't have a plan B if you're gonna really be successful. One plan.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Well, so uh we'll have to stay in touch and see what's next for you. Is it is it your impact on others that's most is it what satisfies you the most, the making the biggest impact? What kind of things are you made uh and I don't mean to make you talk, obviously like this might be a subject you're not ready to talk to because you haven't figured it out yet, but where are your thoughts on big impact, what will what will in energize you, what where what is your main like wonder if I can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

All I know right now is it has to be fun, number one, has to give me energy instead of deplete my energy.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

And it has to have meaning. So, you know, I it could be just writing comedy, which I think does uplift and have meaning for me. It could be starting a nonprofit and doing something along those lines. You know, I I really don't know, but those are the three things that right now so far that I've got lined up that if it if it hit checks all those boxes, then I move forward with it and see, you know, and just feel into that.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

That's uh those are that's a great list. Thank you. I I agree. Making people laugh is everybody likes to laugh.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

We need it these days. So how can people stay in touch with you in the meantime? Do you have are you doing much on social media or anything?

SPEAKER_00 47:19

You know, I've really gotten off of social media. I really yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Um, but uh if you go to Well, thanks for dusting off the microphone and camera and jumping on with us today, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Now you see why. Um they can go to either youareabadass.com or jencinchero.com. They both go to my website and you can sign up. Um I have a little email list, and um, whenever I send a newsletter out, you'll get a thing from me and see what, you know, and then take to my website and you'll know what's going on. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Really appreciate that. So, Jen, we always close this with a question we're all about championing people. And so I always ask the guests before we let them go, who's one person in your life that you would champion right now? And and why would it be them?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Oh, wow. So many people. Who would I champion right now? I gotta be honest, Marianne Williamson. I I don't know if you know, do you know who she is?

SPEAKER_02 48:20

I don't.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Okay, that's okay. Should I? No, most people don't. She ran for president and nobody knows who she is, and I'm like, oh my, and she is so smart, so political, and so spiritual. And I feel like she sort of combines all the things that I think really are important in what is happening today in the world and could really uplift humanity in a way that needs it.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

All right, I'm sure she'll appreciate that if she hears it. But thanks so much for sharing it and thanks for the time today, Jack.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Thank you, Matt. It was such a pleasure to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

I hope you enjoyed this conversation. If you want more podcrash in your life, which of course you do, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe to us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Catch you next time.