PodCrash with Matt Ebert
PodCrash with Matt Ebert
How Shirin Behzadi Turned Adversity Into a Billion-Dollar Career
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So, Shereen, I would love to start with your background because to me it was an impressive, kind of crazy story. I think that I kinda came from from nothing to something, but y yours was not an easy journey at all. So maybe uh a little bit of the background of that. Um you had to leave home all on your own at 17, I think, because of conditions you saw there in Iran in in childhood, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Well, thanks for having me. And definitely, I was born and raised in Iran, and I was born to a loving family, youngest of five, and life was normal, peaceful until revolution happened, the chaos of the Islamic Republic. And as a child, I witnessed those atrocities. The whole sense of safety was gone with everything that we saw, everything that we experienced. In fact, when I was a teenager, I was arrested twice. And one time it was probably just because they didn't like the way it looked.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And was it because you were a bad kid?
SPEAKER_00No, I don't, they had no reason. I was just walking on the street. And we, but there were young guys with machine guns and they would stop anybody anywhere.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00The second time I was with my sister and friends, and they found a book in my suitcase, which I don't even know what the book was, but somehow the idea that I, as a young person, I had a book and they were afraid of it, which is very interesting because decades later I wrote a book. It's the Revenge is Sweet.
SPEAKER_01I was just saying, what a turnaround, right? Couldn't even own one, and now you wrote one. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Right. So when I was 17, I graduated high school. I didn't know this, but my parents had decided that it was time for me to leave. They told me that in order for me to build a life that they thought I could build, that I was time for me to go. So I had to say goodbye at 17 to everything I knew. My siblings, my family, my father, and pack everything I owned in a small suitcase and get on my mom's passport, and we left for Turkey, Istanbul, because it was the neighboring country. There, my mom found me a home where a woman had a room for three girls. Okay. Once she was sure I was in a safe place, she left me. So here I was in a foreign country, didn't speak their language, I didn't have a lot of money, I didn't know anyone, had never been away from home. And I had to find my way through. But even then, at some point, Matt, I landed on the idea that there's hope. Because I had already in my young life been through so much adversity and had found hope throughout that it was kind of natural to me. So I said, Well, I'm gonna go to the United States. So, because why not?
SPEAKER_01So, before you go to that, what was there any pushback from you at all, or you agreed that you had to go? It it had to be. There wasn't no like, I'm gonna hang in here with you. It might be tough, but I'm sticking with you, or right.
SPEAKER_00That's such a good question that's nobody's ever asked, you know. That that was pretty insightful. No, I don't think there was a discussion, there wasn't much of a conversation. Okay, because the situation was so dire, you know, there was a war going on, and history's repeating itself, but there was a war going on, lots going on. And I think my parents were really not of the mindset we're gonna sit down and have this discussion. It was very discreet. I had to be quiet because you know, I could be arrested, and it was just let's just get it done. Okay, they weren't there, wasn't even a lot of time to say proper goodbyes, frankly, because it was quick.
SPEAKER_01So just as much fear of staying, maybe than going. Could that be could that be the case?
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. Yes, the situation was very challenging, very scary.
SPEAKER_01And then Istanbul, you spent how long there before you got the opportunity to come to the US?
SPEAKER_00So in Istanbul was less than a year, and really I had um I focused, I we used as my family used anybody we knew anywhere in the United States, in the world, and it ended up being that somebody that knew I went to a special school in Iran for gifted and talented. So they knew of that. We found a person in the United States that knew about it, and so on. Because of that, I ended up finding my way to the United States and I landed at LAX and I was super excited, but I was in more or less the same situation. I didn't have parents. In fact, I didn't, I think I didn't see my dad for 10 years after I left.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna ask, but did you stay in communication with him or um absolutely?
SPEAKER_00I mean, back then there were no cell phones, unfortunately, right? So letters and I was very, very close to my dad. My dad was my idol, he he still is, he's past nonsense, but we found ways to stay connected, of course, unfortunately not as frequently as you would like, and not as much as a you know, 17, 18-year-old child needs. But so when I was in the United States, I ended up finding a way to survive, and that was to work as a cashier at a gas station.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00This gas station was not in the nicest areas near Los Angeles, so much so that it was bulletproof. So we would have to get in there and have dead bolts and would lock it, and everything was bulletproof except for a little drawer with a little slit that we were trained not to even put our hand in it because from the other side somebody could grab it. That was sort of the environment that I was in.
SPEAKER_01Not the American dream quite yet, huh?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I have to say I was demoralized, I felt lonely often, I felt hopeless, all of those things.
SPEAKER_01And did you know English or have to learn English?
SPEAKER_00So you learn English as a second language in Iran. Okay, but not conversationally. So my grammar was excellent, but learning how to speak it well. That was I'm obviously I spoke it, but not as well, or understanding people was more challenging. It took some time to land on just the right sense of you know how to have be conversational with it. But so even at um at some point at that gas station, um, and I think I even remember the day, I decided that maybe the idea that I was unfortunate to be seated here at this at this cashier's booth needed me to have a change in perspective. Okay. A change in point of view. And so I thought maybe I'm not unfortunate, maybe I'm fortunate. Now I can do something. And so I decided someday I was gonna run a big company. I remember I was reading my calculus book because I was going to school full time, and a gentleman walked up to me and he took one look at my book and said, What are you studying? And I said, Calculus. And he said, What are you gonna do when you grow up? I said, Oh, I'm gonna run a big company.
SPEAKER_01Great answer.
SPEAKER_00He laughed at me and said, Good luck with that. You know, you sitting here as a younger, as you know, poor girl, clearly, had a gas station. But that is that is what I believed. I I knew I was gonna run a big company. I even printed business cards as a cashier because it was so ingrained in me that that was going to be my North Star. And it was because of that North Star I ended up making decisions in life. That obviously decades later, I was a CFO, then I become an entrepreneur, and in that journey, I ended up leading a company to a billion dollars.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. Uh it's amazing that you believed it that that early too. Um, and and thought like I I have learned a long time ago, you know, that what you thinking that you can accomplish it is is is step one, right? You're not gonna accomplish things that you don't think you can do. Um you should but to think that big, so young in a in a in a new country, that's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I think that is that was my saving grace. I I always say hopes and dreams are great, but I knew it was the knowing that has much more impact, much more energy, much more pool when you say, I know I'm gonna do it. I'm just taking the right steps to get there.
SPEAKER_01So the business card was really just like your written-down goal, really.
SPEAKER_00Effectively. We didn't know, you know, we didn't have that language then, right? Thankfully, people are talking about this stuff more now. Upon reflection, I go, why why did I even do that? But it just was something tangible, right? That that reminded me was happening.
SPEAKER_01Couldn't have stayed at the gas station too long then for for you to start to pursue that dream. Um, you were in you were in school here and then must have entered a career choice coming out of school, uh, I assume, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So I went to college initially, I was a math major because I thought you was good at math, that was how it's going to be. But I then realized that really the language of business is not quite math. And I wanted to, I wanted to run a business. I wanted to know more about running businesses. So I switched over to accounting. I still worked full-time. I went to school full-time because you know I had to survive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And when it came time to getting closer to graduation, I told myself, I'm gonna get, it was back then the big eight accounting firms. I thought, oh, I'm gonna get a job with one of the big eight. In that pursuit, I realized there are internships for available. And I really wanted to do an internship with EY Ernst and Young at the time. So I went to the career office and I told them that. And they were like, oh, Shereen, that's nice, but you know, they don't recruit from our school because we went to a state school and it was like especially for internship because there are fewer positions open for internships. And I this is where I learned and I've applied since the idea that it's good to hear people out, their points of view, but you don't have to listen to them. So I didn't listen to her. I opted in to do uh get that internship and I got it, one of the eight in all of the greater LA area. As a result, when I was graduating, I had offers from all the big eight accounting firms. So I started working with EY, loved it, loved it. I'm still very close. In fact, some of the endorsers of my book are EY partners.
SPEAKER_01I see the EY trophy and behind you there.
SPEAKER_00I recognize that I'm one entrepreneur of the year. Isn't that interesting? Full circle.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And so when I was working at EY for a few years, it I just paid attention to what was ahead of me, and I realized with a heavy heart that I really didn't want to be a better auditor. I wanted to understand operations. Plus, at the time, not today, thankfully, but at the time there weren't a lot of women ahead of me that had made it to partner. And so I just didn't think that was the right track for me. But it was really hard. It was really hard to leave. Somebody with my financial insecurity. Now I had a great job. I was well liked. I was getting great reviews, accolades, I was moving up, but I chose to leave.
SPEAKER_01It seems though, like part of what made you so successful is this belief in yourself that um that you had that is a is a level that I mean it's kind of entrepreneurial for sure. Um was that a gift of like the the struggle of being out on your own in a foreign country at 17? Is that is that where that came from or did it come from younger?
SPEAKER_00Yes, both.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So my dad and I, we were very close. And I think in life you need at least one. If you have one person that thinks you're great, it's so important in life. So definitely that. Sorry. But also, I have now learned and I've language around it where I believe that there is superpower to adversity.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00In fact, I call it the superpower of adversity because when you have and face challenges, smaller challenges, and you get through them, you build the muscle, memory, you build resilience so you're ready for the next one. This is why I encourage people don't shy away from challenge or adversity. Find a way to grow through and from them because they're great teachers. Adversities are great teachers. That is why I believe small successes, seemingly small successes, gave me the foundation to say, I can face a bigger one and I can face a bigger one. That's why I think I ended up really having confidence in what I can do. And you know, in life, I think if the world tells you, and the world does tell you often what you're not good at, that that you learn very quickly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's that's terrible. But if you don't believe in yourself, if you don't think highly of yourself, that's tragic.
SPEAKER_01Was your dad an entrepreneur? What did he do?
SPEAKER_00My dad was an attorney by trade, and he ended up, yes, he he ended up really becoming an entrepreneur. He took over a company with when it was relatively small and grew it substantially before the revolution, of course.
SPEAKER_01So you had seen it too in your father, you had seen an example of it. Yes. So interesting, you mentioned the adversity thing because um I talk about for me, it was figuring out that struggle when it comes your way is where the opportunity, like figuring out your way through it. Like I spent a lot of time wishing struggle would go away, and then I learned to embrace it because that's where honestly the where growth and opportunity lie.
SPEAKER_00That's the way I gosh. Same language. I tell I I different words with the same thoughts, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_00I speak about this. I'm like, do not like we always not always, oftentimes we think uh, let's just wait this out. I wish it would go away, but I'm saying embrace it and ask yourself, how could this be a great teacher for me right now?
SPEAKER_01It's not always easy to embrace with a smile, though. I I gotta admit.
SPEAKER_00No, and I do want to say I also it's okay to lick your wounds and be in a fetal position for some time. I'm not saying like immediately you spring into action, but you do in time find ways, if you can find ways to grow through adversity, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01So um, yeah, I didn't want to get too too sidetracked on that because um we kind of had you you you left a you left kind of a big career and made a choice that and that yeah again talking to the belief in yourself. So making brave moves like that is gotta be confidence that you're gonna you're gonna succeed at the direction that you want ahead. Um so in practicality, what did that look like then for you? What what opportunity did you see?
SPEAKER_00Because I had such a great relationship with EY, I was open about moving on. So I was introduced to one of the clients of the firm, where I started working there, not really in accounting, it was in in charge of loan servicing, this loan servicing portfolio. It was a mortgage bank.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And there I learned a lot about operations. But when the CFO of the bank was about to leave, he took me out to lunch. And by then I'm I was maybe 27, 28 years old, and said, Shireen, I'm moving on to the to another position, but I do think you're a good fit for CFO. It wasn't a conventional wrap because I wasn't in the accounting department. In fact, when I bounced it off of some friends and family, and they said, Don't do it, don't do it. It's kiss death, it's not gonna go well for you. Yeah, because it seemed like I was going outside of the standard track.
SPEAKER_01You got this great job. Why would you you've got this? Well, wait, but you had already left, you're already with the company, they didn't want you to take the promotion.
SPEAKER_00Well, they were saying to go in and opt in for a promotion when there are people that are in the more direct track that it may backfire. That was really the reaction. But I just I knew this was the right thing for me. So I did go into the CEO and I asked, and he said, absolutely, you're the right fit. So I was before you know it, I was a CFO, and they weren't right, by the way. I ended up having an excellent relationship with the accounting department and the controller and so on. So I didn't, you know, in my late 20s, I was a COFO and pretty good size mortgage bank, learned a lot about operations. We had mortgage backed securities back then, learned a lot.
SPEAKER_01You must have been pretty good because that's a pretty young age. Looking back now. Uh when I was 27, 28, I didn't think it was young, but now looking back, it was young.
SPEAKER_00It is young, it is young. I think thank you for saying that. I also think that I had had plenty of life that I had lived up to that point. So I had a lot more maturity than you would think a 28-year-old would have. But and so there I learned a lot. And when we ended up selling that bank to a larger bank in a few years, it was a great experience because I worked through transactions and negotiating and transitioning. And so when that transaction was completed, again I had a choice. Do I pursue CFO somewhere else? I was still young, I had been a CFO, I had been at EY, like I had a good resume at this point. But then I decided I was going to go out on my own. So this is when all of these seemingly unreasonable steps that I've taken. But I the reason why I took it was because I had that North Star. I knew that someday I was going to run a big company. I also had what we now use the language of core values. My core value was that I wanted to also be an engaged mother, that I knew if I were to have children, I wanted the ability to be there more engaged with them, not to work, but to work and be a very involved parent.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So, and I knew that if I were to commit myself to another CFO position, I wouldn't have that flexibility. But in an entrepreneurial track, I was well aware that it could be very hard, but you have more flexibility with your time, basically. So between those two. That is true.
SPEAKER_01You might work, you might work 18 hours a day, but nobody says when those 18 hours have to be, I guess, right?
SPEAKER_00Right. Exactly. Exactly. That was my motivation. So in doing that and working on my own as what we call the off-site CFO for companies, I came across a company that was fairly at the time still small, you know, growing, but in, you know, pretty small. And there is where I stayed for 20 years. When I met the company and I found the chance that we could potentially work well together and grow this thing, I just felt like this was the right place for me to stay. And in those 20 years, of course, the first few years were very difficult entrepreneurial journey, to the point that, you know, I asked myself the question of is this the right thing to do? Why am I doing this? Why am I going get another job? You know? But we did. And eventually in a few years, we landed on what I call the secret sauce. We started growing once we hit our secret sauce, which by the way, it's not an uncommon entrepreneurial journey, right? People build, build, build, they don't see results, but once they do, the momentum builds. That's what happened to us.
SPEAKER_01That's the way it was for me. Yeah, it took a overnight success, two decades in the making, kind of right. Like nothing overnight about it at all.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, I tell people it's like when you see a home being built, you pass by the lot and you it feels like nothing's happening for a while.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But then all of a sudden, once the walls go up, it feels like it happens like that. Well, because for all of the that time they were laying the foundation. Same thing happens in business, right? So it takes some time to really find your footing, your foundation, where you want to go. And then then it takes off. So it took off.
SPEAKER_01And you were the CEO of this company?
SPEAKER_00I was CFO at the time.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And what and what business were you in?
SPEAKER_00We were franchisors in the home home improvement space.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00The thing with with it though is regardless of titles, we were entrepreneurs. You know, in in a very entrepreneurial environment, people roll up their sleeves and do whatever it takes. It's just not necessarily so much of the title. So I had the ability to build departments and run departments and sort of sort of help the company grow. We grew into a we decided to grow into another brand and create an umbrella company when the Great Recession hit. And talk about adversity because we were in the home space and that was a high.
SPEAKER_01Not the time to be in that business at all, right? From a from a tailwind perspective. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We did learn a lot. Talk about adversity really helped us be even better focused on our business and do it better. And then I ended up within a year of that hitting. my health situation where I face terminal illness.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say, yeah. So that's a I mean, I guess in in childhood you had a little bit of fear for your life from from the conditions around you. And now you're facing it again um health wise.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And so I had a and still in the moment was it hard to stay positive?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a very good question. I don't know if I stayed positive or I stayed focused.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I told myself that I was going to survive. And it it was a brain tumor and the first surgery was 10 hours long. We thought we it was successful. As it turned out it had failed in some ways. So I ended up uh having to do an emergency surgery because I had lost all of my spinal food in my skull, which is sudden death. So we have to basically observe and make sure that I make it through and as I did eventually after a lot of trials and turbulations and a whole ordeal I had lost my balance literally lost my balance because I have been through some meaning like couldn't mean like didn't know how to walk kind of balance. Yeah walking was hard.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I had to learn to take it literally one step at a time. So the loftier goals in life were no longer it the goals were more like maybe I can go around the coffee table now. It became that and it was eventually I found my way through it but I ended up slowing down only because I had to up until then I had been surviving and running fast okay to survive to build to you know and here I was have having to slow down because I didn't have a choice that was a gift I had never asked for but it was a gift nevertheless because I became an observer I was quiet because I couldn't talk very well and I observed my surroundings I observed people I as a result my senses were heightened. Okay I didn't say in my family that it was life before and life after and life after is so much better richer it was as a result of that experience that I ended up making positive changes in my personal life and in my professional life. It was after recovering from that brain tumor that it was apparent to me it was time for us to bring in equity partners and exit those of us that wanted to exit. We had always talked about selling the company ever since I met them but it what had become obvious that it was time. The company had grown past the experience expertise know-how of some of us so about 2013 I set out to find and learn about this whole world of private equity and then you don't think you would have got there without having gotten sick I don't think yeah I don't think I would have been as good an observer I wasn't assessing the situation and the environment as much because I was moving so fast right when you're in the middle of building as you well know oftentimes you're you're really being more reactive and this ordeal taught me to take a pause take a look and make sure that I'm being proactive okay I made good personal changes too it wasn't just about the company but certainly company was another extension of that. So I set out to bring in private equity and by 2015 we went through a really good process a rigorous process and we had written on the board if we hit a particular number we were all going to sell and leave okay we got an offer for that same exact number which was crazy how should have wrote a bigger number down in hindsight right we thought it was a big number we're like if oh only if we could get this thinking it was lofty but we did it.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00So yes so as a part of that deal raising private equity is very hard of course but also raising private equity at the sums that we were looking at very hard and I was the lead I was the one raising money which is even more difficult because you know a very small percentage of private equity backed companies are run by women. So we're talking multiple layers of heart but we were successful.
SPEAKER_01Is that still the case today is women in leadership positions are not that common there private equity firm private equity backed companies.
SPEAKER_00Okay so in private equity now luckily there are lots of women but still raising money as a as somebody who's running the company is more difficult.
SPEAKER_01Interesting okay but this would have been over 10 years ago so right it yes so um odds are our odds aren't in your favor then as far as whatever you what you see around you. Okay.
SPEAKER_00They weren't but I didn't it doesn't matter to me it didn't matter to me my point was low odds doesn't mean impossible odds. Not at all and two I believe that what we had to offer was so outstanding that I could sit in front of anybody and really explain the opportunity and get them as excited about the opportunity as I was so because I had so much confidence in what we had to offer kind of those those things didn't matter to me as much so and didn't matter to them obviously so we got it. That's why you got the number that you wrote on the board because you they definitely felt your excitement yeah right so when we uh fine we were about to finalize the transaction and the original plan was we were all going to be bought out almost all all of the C bench their comeback was we do this shareen but you do have to stay on board. So I had to to do some soul search and ask myself if I'm ready for this challenge, right? To grow a company to expectations by private equity, which is definitely more rigorous.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Rightfully so because I invested in the company but also do it with almost all the rest of the C bench bought out so I were to become CEO, CIO, CFO, CMO and COO all in one person for the time being until we recruited of a sizable company. We were not small at this point. And nobody else wanted to stay and and you were the one they tapped and said had to stay so you had to go rebuild the whole team yes the whole team but you know rather than hit the ground running with that with the exception of maybe early on bringing it on a CFO because you do have rigorous reporting requirements with private equity so that we have to fill fairly quickly but I realized that really in order we were we have been around for you know more than a decade we had done so much the company was sizable how do you take a company of that size and make it grow substantially more you can't do things the same old way. So I took the time to go through the organization and do what I call the listening tour and really talk about to all of our teams understand where the low-hanging fruits were where the opportunities existed really not for me to talk but to hear people out and at the same time discuss who are we and where are we headed talk about the North Star talk about the vision right so what was our vision now? Where are we going to go? So as a result it really got everybody engaged in the process all of our teams we expanded it to our franchisees to our partners everybody's really understood what we were about and everybody became more and more aligned about where we were going to go I believe that's the reason we grew as fast as we did. So in an industry that grows to six to nine percent a year we grew by 70% in four years. And this is a season in a traditionally slow moving um industry. We had set out to create a platform of brands we did we ended up we had two brands we ended up growing another brand from the ground up and acquiring yet another one so we now had four on the platform we really created a platform that provided shared services that was a true platform. So therefore when 2019 was coming around the corner I approached our private equity firm and I said this is really time for us to sell because you know they stay in an investment for so many years. Yes it was the right timing. How many years had you been in how many years had they been in four okay so that's right about the time right um that is the sweet spot yeah yes and we were showing lots of good growth momentum we had built what we had set out to build so we went through a really really rigorous process because the numbers were a lot bigger this time around and uh sold towards the end of 2019. By the time we sold we were operating out of 12000 cities and our franchises were installing 7000 units a week so we were sizable and this time around after a few months I stepped down because I had been there 20 years. So you you you made what was your goal on that business card that you made was it everything was it everything you dreamed it would be yes you called it yes see it's interesting because I don't I didn't quite know at the time what a big company looks like right I just thought I'd run a big company and it I would have never guessed franchising would have never guessed the home improvement but I think ultimately yes I think I had learned so much I had learned how to build I had learned how to you know navigate including teams this time around we had to have a very challenging culture change right moving from a privately owned company to private equity backed company requires culture adjustments.
SPEAKER_01I had learned a lot yes upon reflection I think I oh I won my entrepreneur of the year so yes it was fun great but also very challenging great stuff and now you now you have a book out that's been out for six months maybe not quite six months. We mentioned in intro but the the title is unexpected CEO the unexpected CEO my journey from gas station cashier to billion dollar CEO and are you talking unexpected because of of like where you started or unexpected why because it sounds like it was pretty intentional from from you sounds pretty you are so so good okay so I wrote this book my children who are not children they're in their 20s sat me down one Christmas and said mom you've got to write your book and I said no way why would I want to do that no no so I resisted for a while.
SPEAKER_00Okay then I had some experiences where I thought oh if the lessons learned along the way can help others because I really after I stepped on as CEO I thought wow everything I had been through I really want to use those for impact to help others so I then I started writing the book. When it was time for a title my son came up with this title the unexpected CEO and at first I had the same reaction as you did what do you mean unexpected I fully expected it right that was my expectation but no nobody else did okay to others I was the unexpected and I thought that was a very interesting way of positioning it.
SPEAKER_01And the book idea didn't resonate with you at first where did you get the words then what what did you end up what what is the book do gonna do for us when we read it very good question I had been approached in 2019 before we sold the company by Forbes.
SPEAKER_00Okay and I thought they wanted to write about the company which that's why I gave them an interview they did videos as it turned out they ended up making a video about me and put it on forbes.com okay so the cat was out of the back my personal life was already there because they asked me about these questions and up until that point I had never talked about my personal life because there was what was the point so when my son and daughter sat me down and said to write the book I had the same reaction I go why would I do that? They already did that why would I then a few things happened one of them I I'll share with you I went to get a physical like an ultrasound done it nothing was wrong but it was just something routine that I had to do and the technician said to me oh I know you and you don't know me and I said oh really so this was her story that a few years before she had been at the crossroads in her life didn't quite know what to do next always wanted to be an ultrasound technician okay and somehow read had read about me in some local paper this is even before Forbes and had decided if she could do it so can I and so she was doing my ultrasound that day she had pursued what she wanted to do and I go oh that's what it's about so you inspired her you inspired her yes so when I sat down to write the idea wasn't to tell a story the idea was to tell a story with a point. What did I learn along the way? What are those principles that I discovered I didn't create them I discovered them and how can I share them with others so that they can also build grow accomplish or live the way they want with their vision okay I want to say this book therefore is both inspirational and instructional. It's like a roadmap I wish I had when I was building my life not just growing up through the ranks that's the intention of this book and I've apparently it's landed right because it's not only a national bestseller I've had a lot of great comments and feedback from people where they say it takes them just a couple of days to read a relatively thick book because it's very human. It's very relatable it's what we all deal with.
SPEAKER_01Oh that's awesome can't can't wait to to read it I I I down I download a lot of stuff on Audible so when I I saw this interview coming up I downloaded it so it's next in my list so can't wait to check it out. But um you know two things that you said so it's not just inspirational but but practical which is great because then you're inspired but not now what do I do with all this inspiration right? What would be an example of a practical um lesson that stuck with you that helped you that that you're sharing with others I have many of them in there.
SPEAKER_00One that as soon as you asked popped in my head is the idea that you heal by moving so now you heal by moving applied to when I was literally trying to heal and recover.
SPEAKER_01But the same has been true about points in life when the challenges are so prominent and present or we're in some kind of a transition it is not uncommon and understandable to somewhat freeze to somewhat be confused not to know what to do next and I respect all of those and I say go for it you know take your time and at some point you heal by moving start taking one step at a time and the road will start showing up that goes to the adversity thing right just start taking action um you seem like you don't ever have any doubts about things working out like it's a it's a great level of confidence um I just do you ever worry I worry a lot I worry a lot I do have a lot of doubts often and I you know I say fear is my friend I I get afraid of things situations especially considering my background what I grew up with is pretty normal and natural to have things that show up that hit the nerve and are scary but here's the idea I pay attention to them I ask myself what is this here to teach me and then I take the time I take the time to really lean into understanding the circumstances and the situation only after I give myself the grace to be able to be afraid and have doubts and you know all of those emotions because they're great gauges they're they're there to tell you caution something here is not as you expect or pay better attention I use them as the gauges that they are so um I I think it it's great um because obviously even taking on in life and in business the things that you did you had to have grown yourself as a person to a level to where you could handle those those problems because I what I say is like a level four person can't handle a level seven problem it's gonna overwhelm them. So um it's probably that whatever moments in time it is that you take to to learn to reflect to to that's probably the growth period to where then you get some confidence to tackle the problem. I don't know in each situation but that's probably where you get your thoughts organized on how you're actually going to go and tackle it.
SPEAKER_00Yes and I think that's part of the reason I'm been fortunate enough to help companies or philanthropic organizations through different phases. You know I've done it as board director I've done it as advisor oftentimes situations that companies bump into organizations bump into people bump into are kind of common so that I you know they may not be exact but those stages are pretty common. They're they're like to me they're like laws of gravity. There are some principles at work. They are at work across the board regardless of what it is that you're dealing with. So I've had the great pleasure of being able to be of uh of help in those situations because to your point I've been through them multiple times I think that's why the place that I am the phase that I'm in right now is exactly where I want to be which is use those lessons learned use those experiences to help guide others because to your point you've you've been there you've bumped into them before in many maybe in a different shape or form also when you've been through so many hurdles and challenges you can see them coming too yes you can see when when you're headed towards something that may end up being challenging.
SPEAKER_01How did you teach that to your to your team so it's one thing if you if you if you have that type of thinking you need others around you to also think similarly did did you just uh end up attracting people that already did or did how did you help affected and others yes very good question you know we often in leadership talk about engagement especially in today's world there are many challenges with employee engagement talks about different groups of employees age groups of employees being engaged or not my point is if you want to engage you if you want to have engaged employees you have to engage them okay it goes both ways so the idea of going around and finding ways to listen finding ways to include them in conversations finding ways to have their voice included in strategy those are instrumental in making sure that people feel like they're a part of the conversation things will not go the necessarily the way they want it to go but they've been a part of the conversation they understand the logic and then communicating it back to them effectively if you think you've communicated something one time and they people heard it good luck.
SPEAKER_00You need to do it seven more times before it's actually it's actually resonating only seven is that is that the number it seems like many more than seven yes you're so right so then going back to teams one thought that I I actually wrote an article about has to do with to me a good leader is like an orchestra conductor your job is making sure that everybody's in the right Seats, right? Somebody who plays the violin shouldn't be trying to play the drums or vice versa. Same is true in organizations. You want to make sure they all have their own music, they have their own sheet. Then they know what's expected of them. They know how they're being measured. And then your job is to harmonize. So you want to make sure that they're all doing their very best with what they have, that they're one in the right place. And sometimes we try to squeeze people into positions that don't belong and then expect them to do well. Good luck with that. Sometimes we put people in positions and expect them to just know what's expected of them. No, you have to know, you have to be able to communicate to them what expectations exist. And then ultimately you want to make sure that it is your job to making sure that everybody harmonizes, that that people work well together and in concert, that the strategy is understood, that the vision is understood, and everybody's rolling in the same direction.
SPEAKER_01Did you have trouble doing it at scale? So you said 12,000 cities. I assume that means at least 12,000 people at a minimum. The bigger it gets, the harder it, the harder it can be.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And especially in the case of franchising, because they are not ultimately employees, they are business owners who choose to be in partnership.
SPEAKER_01So that have a strong entrepreneurial mind of their own, too, by the way, right?
SPEAKER_00They want to be part of the system, but they also want to be entrepreneurs. So it's a challenge. I can't I consider it an art form, actually, to run and man and lead a franchise organization. So it comes down to doing the exact same things we talked about, but on a larger scale, which is engage people, have make sure their voices are heard centrally and from the leadership, come up with information, data, support mechanisms, and have clarity around communicating with them so they want to follow your lead. But ultimately, we believed that our job was to make sure our franchisees were successful. If that's your gold standard, then you'll make decisions that are right by the entire organization. If your goal is to sit there and say, I want to just make sure my bottom line looks great, that's a good goal to have. I just don't know how successful you're gonna be with it in the long run.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00But making sure that those that are partners with you are thriving effectively makes you thrive too.
SPEAKER_01That makes a ton of sense to me from a decision standpoint. It's it's it's it's very logical. The problem, maybe, that I just being nosy about, it's hard to do something that even if it is good for everyone, it certainly everybody's not gonna feel it's good for them.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so that's the thing with scale. Like you're you're trying to do what's best for the whole, and there will be individuals that you gotta win over.
SPEAKER_00You're not looking for a hundred percent consensus. You're looking to include their voices, have it be logically heard, and communicate back to them what ends up happening with clarity around strategy and plans, but you're absolutely right. In any room, even if you have a hundred people, you're not gonna have a hundred people agreeing on things. That's just not that's not the plan. The plan is to show leadership, that you really showcase the vision where the company is headed, which applies to leaders across the board, no matter what organization it is. I don't even care if it's a philanthropic organization. When you have clarity around where you're headed, who you are, and stay true to those, that's when people would be much more likely to follow your lead. I do want to say there are some people that will not fit the organization. That's just something you have to accept. And maybe probably was my biggest struggle personally to land on the right mindset because I was not about to let anybody go, right?
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I learned the wrong, the hard way that sometimes that's not good for them, that's not good for you, because not everybody is a fit.
SPEAKER_01That's been the one for me that's because you get loyal to people, you like people, um, and as you're growing, people definitely the the company changes and people hit ceilings. Um if you're growing through MA, you've got cultural differences of of the other company, and you gotta get them together. So the people part is is tough to and I would say looking back, like that's the one where I've probably waited too long to cut ties sometimes. Like if I could do something better, I'd do that faster.
SPEAKER_00Me too. If I were to say, where was my weakest point, that was it. You know, I don't know, Matt, but I think saying no is very powerful and very difficult to do. So what I mean is even if it's not to people, it's like you know the direction of the company, you know you're headed for examples that I used, for instance. I was working for a great company, I chose to leave. That's basically saying no to the track that was before me. That's really hard to do. But unless you're ready to do it, you're not going to be able to achieve what you have set out to achieve in life, in in your career, whatever it may be. It is true with companies too. When I advise companies, I always talk about the idea of saying no is more significant than saying yes. Because saying yes oftentimes is easy, but then it you could go zigzag every which way, every opportunity that comes up you say yes to. How are you? You're never gonna get to your destination.
SPEAKER_01I've heard that said before. Sometimes it's the things you say no to that's even more important, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's hard, especially then if it's not just no to a project, if it's no to people, that's really hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So what are you up to now? After selling the company, you stepped out of the CEO role. Um, you wrote wrote the book. Are you writing a second book, or what what are you up to now?
SPEAKER_00Well, I wrote the book, it was published in of October, so I'm really enjoying talking about it. And it's obviously a national bestseller, so that works. I'm doing more speaking.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00What I've learned is the idea that to share these lessons, people consume information in different ways. Some people like to read, some people like to hear what you have to say. So more speaking, and I've been fortunate enough to be invited to really great conferences and to speak to great audiences. I am on a few boards and I do invest, but I also selectively advise companies if I feel like it's the right setup and fit for me.
SPEAKER_01You think you'll ever run jump in the saddle and run a big company again? I'm sure you get those calls too.
SPEAKER_00I I haven't I haven't been attracted to that idea. So never say never. You never know what shows up, but right now I'm really enjoying what I'm doing, which is a broader way of impacting others and helping others. You know, what we talked about, you know, help companies navigate growth situations or challenges. I just feel like it's it's a lot of fun. Not just companies, also people when they're in transition. The book is very helpful, has been really helpful to people that are either looking to make changes or wanting to make changes or are in transition or just want to build something on their own or build within organizations.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you talked about the one woman that you had inspired um with your story. So now you you actually get to you get to see the effect that you're having on uh a lot more people. It's got to be rewarding.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's it's been it's been amazing.
SPEAKER_01Well so great. Congrats to you on all of that. It's it's great and great to see all the people that you're able to help with what you've what you've learned and what you what you've experienced.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Are are you are you active on social media a lot? Is there a place we can follow you to?
SPEAKER_00Yes, Shereen Bazati, good luck spelling it. I'm on I'm on LinkedIn mostly and on Instagram as well.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00If people have a hard time finding my name, they they can just put in the unexpected CEO and they can find my website. I have my own website too. So and the unexpected CEO is obviously everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. So, Shereen, we close the podcast always with a question. We're all about championing people. And so before we let you go, we wanted to ask who who would be one person in your life that you would like to champion given the opportunity and why.
SPEAKER_00Interesting that I would like to champion in my life. I don't know if I want to separate them, but my children, son and daughter.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Most notably, my son is an entrepreneur, runs his own company. That's his product right there. And he got Forbes 330 last year.
SPEAKER_01So really, you must have taught him a thing or two.
SPEAKER_00He's he's talented himself. Of course, my daughter Sarah Madan is fantastic too.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for spending the time with us this afternoon. Really, really appreciate it. What a great story.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01I hope you enjoyed this conversation. If you want more podcast in your life, which of course you do, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe to us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Catch you next time.