PodCrash with Matt Ebert
PodCrash with Matt Ebert
Why Blue-Collar Work Is Becoming More Technical Than Ever with I-CAR CEO Kyle Thompson
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I'm Matt Evert. I turned one collision repair shop into a multi-billion dollar business called Crash Champions. Now I'm sitting down with people who have also built great things so you can build something of your own.
SPEAKER_00Matt, we have another guest who is going to crash our pod. All right. Today we have Kyle Thompson. Okay. So Kyle Thompson is the CEO of iCar. iCar is responsible for training and standards across our industry for uh our technicians and basically people overall. Um I'm excited about today's conversation is not so much about iCar and training and standards. It's more about to do with two people, you and him, who started at the shop floor and then worked their way up in business. Okay. So with that, uh, why do you think it's important for that dynamic of a person starting off in the shop and then running a company as a CEO? Like, how does that beneficial to somebody like Kyle and somebody like you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for that that question, I always answer it in that our our team knows that I've sat in those seats. So uh they know that I know what the day-to-day grind is like for them. I'm not gonna come with some crazy idea to make their their job harder. Um, we're all about trying to make it easier for for them to do their job. And knowing that I've experienced it um, even though it was some time ago, I I believe gives uh some credibility. It's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I think there's gonna be a lot of relevant uh key information in this podcast. Let's let's get it started.
SPEAKER_01All right, everyone. This is Podcrash. Uh probably maybe not a traditional, maybe executive path, as mine wasn't either, but maybe talk us through how did you land there.
SPEAKER_02Sure, absolutely. So uh first of all, thank you for having me. Thrilled to be here today. Um, my path in the collision repair industry uh really started in 1994 when I was coming out of a role, uh graduated college uh a couple years before, coming out of a role that um was really draining, but no real progression forward. Uh, and I came across a role uh that was at progressive insurance, being an entry-level adjuster, which included handling claims, writing estimates, settling claims, settling industry, uh injuries, uh, really the full gamut. And uh so, you know, being uh being progressive during a high growth time, they sent me off. I spent six weeks learning how to do everything I needed to know to handle claims properly, and came back, got handed a clipboard and some uh books, Mitchell books, to write some estimates, and they sent me on my way. So uh great, great times, great exposure. Uh, when you're in high growth times, you get exposed to a lot of items, uh, and those that can rise up are rewarded for such. And so my career at Progressive went very well. Uh, I had a slight detour where I went and ran an independent collision repair shop. Fantastic experience. Um the shop itself, I mean, this is 1996, so the the severity was about $1,900 or so. I'm sure that you know people would love to have that back today, but that's not a reality. Uh the complexity of repairs wasn't there. Um, but but the learned how to run a business and uh it was thrilling. I also learned how to manage folks that are doing a role that I had not done before. And in the past, when I managed folks at Progressive, it was a role that I'd already done. Like I knew what they needed to do step by step, and I knew what success and good look like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Stepping into the collision center, listen, I didn't have that skill. And so learning to appreciate that skill, learning to ask questions and understand the whys of things that were being requested, and then having to convey that to others in order to get items approved. It was a it was a great experience for me, just a good opportunity to learn more. Um, I went back to Progressive after that, spent a little bit more time there. Uh, and then I transitioned to working at USAA. And at USAA, I started out, I went in to run um contracts, owned contracts for uh a lot of the large direct repair programs, which is, you know, um large MSOs such as yourself, uh, and then a lot of other different contracts for the claims organization, progressed through USAA at a at a um good click, uh, I'd say like 13 roles in 14 years or so. So a lot of things. But what I learned along without a doubt. So um, but I worked for some tremendous leaders, leaders that um even at times where they offered me a role and I wasn't looking really to take it, uh, I said, no, I don't think I have that in me. They're like, hey, well, do you think we're setting you up to fail? And at that point, what they're telling you is they know you can do it. You just have to get out of your own head and be able to do it. Um great confidence. It was fantastic. And when I say exceptional leaders, I pull from them, I still talk to most of them uh on a somewhat regular basis. Just great individuals that were truly invested in developing their staff around them. Um, spent time there, uh, moved from there. And during that time, I've been involved with iCar for majority of my uh my career, uh, whether it was on the um, first of all, taking the classes, like things that I and why did I take classes? Because I needed to know what to do later on, because I required it of uh suppliers that were servicing the company that I was uh that I was working for, um, and and requiring my own staff to take classes. So I need to understand what requirements I placed on them. Uh then uh I was on the board of directors for iCar for nine years.
SPEAKER_01So just to I want to go back, I want to come back to ICAR in a few years. Okay, let's do that. Yeah, but it teenage jobs, college jobs. There's no way you went to college with the intent of jumping in an insurance job.
SPEAKER_02No, not at all.
SPEAKER_01So you ended up in this industry for your career now, but that growing up, what'd you want to be when you grow up? What how did you get to that job?
SPEAKER_02So I I've had an obsession with vehicles since a young age, like many people. Um like me, couldn't wait to take the wheels off, open the hood. Couldn't take the wheels off. If I could find something that was cheap and not running, I bought it. You know, because my it was half the thrill of figuring out what's the matter with it and to make it run. Uh and then the other part is I didn't have the money to to spend on things that were fully functioning. And so it was a great way to to move forward. Everything from motorcycles to jet skis, anything with an engine was right up my path. And so spent a lot of time uh doing that. This is pre Facebook marketplace days and everything else. This is putting in the grind, reading newspaper ads, looking for things that uh that I could go and and interested to me.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah. And then out of college immediately, what job did you seek?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So I I worked, I really worked for probably 13 on uh in various roles. And okay. Uh we were uh my dad uh uh growing up, we had a home builder that lived across the street from us, and I swear they sp they thought of things of what could we get Kyle to do? It'd be great, that would be great learning lessons. You know, dropping me off in in a in a field with a hand sickle and and getting me to clear it. It was great because you learn all of these things and and you get progressive responsibilities when you demonstrate that that you can do them. Coming out of college, I uh got hired immediately by Hilton Hotels. I spent time uh doing food and beverage management uh in in those organizations. Uh great. Uh, but what I quickly learned is that, you know, 80 hours a week at a minimum, working seven days a week for uh you know, week after week just wasn't a great um wasn't a great career path. And, you know, I had aspirations of a family, I had aspirations of kids. And when you're working your busiest times are every holiday, that's not a that's not a good life choice. Friday night seven holidays. Absolutely. So we were talking a little bit that, you know, the way I ended up at Progressive is uh I'm listening to these, uh, I'm going on a few job interviews as I'm still working seven days a week. And as I'm sitting there talking to the gentleman, he's trying to talk me out of wanting to work there.
SPEAKER_01And what do you say? Setting the expectations correctly. Oh, absolutely. Right. So that's important.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So what he did, what he said to me is like, hey, why would you want this job? We're hiring for Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday.
SPEAKER_01And you're out.
SPEAKER_02And I'm like, do I get Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday off? And he's like, Yeah. And I was like, All right, I'm good. He's like, well, let me tell you more about the job. And I was like, no, no, I'm good. I promise you.
SPEAKER_01And I gotta From no days off to three, it sounds like three, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So it was good. And the great thing about working off hours and on the weekends is you don't have a bunch of leadership there, so you figure things out yourself. Like, how do I manage this? How do I uh respond to customers? Volume is very inconsistent in claims, and so you could have a really busy weekend and then you're spending a lot of time reaching out, and you have other ones where you're like, okay, let me get caught up on some other things. So it was it was interesting. It was just a good learning experience.
SPEAKER_01So maybe put you on the spot if uh besides your current one, we'll leave that one alone. Favorite, favorite job or role and why?
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's good. So I would say I got uh great pleasure at uh two specific roles where I was entrusted to start new organizations. Okay. Uh and the the first of which was uh at the time USA relied on uh a lot of reporting from many different sources. So there was never a single source of truth. And so I was asked to stand up a data and analytics group uh for USA for the claims organization, and I got to do that. And it was really, hey, here's the idea, you build it. And it was great. The the trust, again, it was a trust situation, not something I was interested in doing, wasn't super analytical, or at least I didn't think so. But I hired a great team. I hired people that had skills that I didn't have, but I knew were necessary. And that organization still exists today. It's it was wildly successful and set me up for other things. Uh, and then another organization I stood up was a category management organization where I was asked to oversee all of the contractual spend for the PC Claims organization. Okay. And uh, and it was just, I mean, again, it's it's taking something from nothing, building it up. What excites me the most about that is figuring out where the gaps lie and how do you find people to fill them. And it's not people that I knew. I all of a sudden I'm I'm interviewing people that are true contracting experts, not people that have done contracting, which is very different, people that understood requirements and and writing contracts in a way that made sense and that were a good opportunity to win for both sides. It was really uh very interesting. But I I gravitate towards things that involve leadership. I'm leading people, I get great um pride when folks that work for me are successful and they're able to be fulfilled.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. Yeah, I I think what you described is really kind of entrepreneurial because like entrepreneurs, you you're starting something new, right? You're you're solving a problem or introducing something new, solving a problem, making something better. Um, and it's it's from that kind of ground up that seems to get you fired up, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Anytime that you can see I like to be able to see results. I'm uh you know, uh pe people uh at times you like you like to do things and see the instant gratification. That's exactly it. It maybe wasn't instant, but you could see what you were able to accomplish and say, okay, we figured out how to do this. And it was never just me, there was teams around me that um that I put together, but it was identifying the skills that I lacked and finding folks that could fill those gaps for me so we could all work together to accomplish what we're trying to do.
SPEAKER_01That's what I love about fixing cars. You're taking something that's literally a wreck, literally a wreck, and then in a matter of a day, a couple days or a couple weeks, transforming it back to what it used to be. It's great. Absolutely. So for those listening that don't know what iCar is, describe iCar for our audience, and then I imagine there's a lot of different industries that have similar organizations. But what does iCar do?
SPEAKER_02What makes iCar unique is a not-for-profit. It was established by six segments of the industry, and it's collision repairs, insurers, school, like the full gamut of everybody that's involved in the collision repair industry. Uh, and it was put together to say, how can we support training for the industry? And so iCar today is uh, I would say is the premier training organization for the collision repair industry. Um, today we have a catalog of about 500 courses and lessons uh that uh that technicians take. Uh we've built out the industry, it helped us establish protocols, and those protocols are what sets the standard for what people need to know to hit various levels of achievement through iCar. And so we put together the classes, we routinely update classes to make sure that we're staying as close to on top of information as it comes out in the industry or it comes out in the collision in the OEM space. That way, uh, that way we're delivering content that is relevant for the vehicles that technicians are likely to get into their stalls.
SPEAKER_01Appreciate that very much. So, what attracted you to the role? It it's kind of a I could see the role in a in a way being a little bit frustrating because you need buy-in from the repairers and from the insurers and and and from the individuals that go through the court. Like you have to really get cooperation, right, to succeed, I think is maybe what I'm describing.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I will say that uh at any given time somebody is probably frustrated with something that iCar has done or isn't moving fast enough on. And so that's my biggest like we should, we should figure out ways that we're that we're going as quickly as possible to make sure the industry has what they need. Um, in general, today we're training probably 10,700 uh gold class facilities, which is the the our top achievement for a collision repairer to achieve. Uh, probably 120,000 students. It's a big organization, but but to your point, how do you bring it all together? Uh and what I would say is that we spend a lot of time understanding specific needs. Um, and then you take those needs and you say, okay, iCar is neutral. Like we're not we're not angled toward any one of those six segments. So we focus on items that bring the most value to the industry segment as a whole. And we'll we we put off those items that mean that we're not going to be neutral or we're gonna over-index to one of those groups instead of the other. Uh when I when I think about how iCar um works today, like we're we're very uh what I would I would consider that what we do today is not changed tremendously over the last three to five years, but in the future has to change dramatically. We still produce a lot of uh a lot of tests are taken there online, they're read the material, um, ingest the material, be quizzed on the material at the end, uh, maybe watch a video. Uh, and and I'm proud of the material that we put together, but we want to deliver items that um set people up for success. That, you know, how do you get hands-on demonstration, not watching a video of somebody doing it? And that's where we're trying to get the organization to.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's interesting because I think this is a whole world faces technology makes things change so fast. And maybe I'm biased because I see it every day. I don't know where else in the world something has changed as dramatically as automobiles in say the last five years. And they spent decades virtually unchanged, right? I mean, you got unibodies, cars, and airbags, maybe, right? But beyond that, I describe it as like when I was a kid, technology was like if you leave your keys in it, it would ding. If you left your keys in it and your lights on, you get a faster, louder ding, right? And that was the and you had a radio, there was your technology. Today, like the cars are driving themselves. So, and and all of that's come about really at scale and in say the last five-year period. So it's a challenge, I think. Does that help buy car and because it's such a need, or does it create it has to create a lot of pressure, probably too, to keep the content current?
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_01Sorry for the big monologue heading into a simple question.
SPEAKER_02No, but and uh as you're saying it, I'm playing out in my head. Yeah. Listen, what what we have to do for the industry is difficult and we have room to improve. I would tell you that today we're on about a three-year course refresh every year. Technology moves a lot quicker than that. Uh, and we have to find a way to keep it up. You know, today we're embedded before uh, and I would say the first real true demonstration of that is when Ford was launching the F-150, the aluminum, which was a new uh new substructure for the vehicle coming out. Like we we were active in that participation before the vehicle ever launched because they knew what shops needed to be able to do in the repair process. The equipment that they had to have was very different. And F-150 was probably the number one selling truck at the time, and um, and uh or or at least a high volume vehicle. And those were coming out rapidly, and people had to be prepared for it. That technology, like that was when we think back now, that was a minimal change versus what we're seeing today. There's such a blur of the lines of collision repair and mechanical repair and engineering, and you know, the the requirements are completely different of what it takes to repair a vehicle today, and how do we get there? We have tremendous uh SMEs on our organization, in our organization, but we uh but we go through and say, are we up to speed on what is coming? How quickly after a vehicle or technology launches can we get it out? For a while we did a lot of very uh vehicle specific courses. Um, and now we realize we have to do technology specific courses because if one manufacturer rolls it out, it's you know, six months later somebody else is rolling out the exact same technology. And so we need to make sure that we're preparing to fix all vehicles properly and giving the demonstration of how to do so versus individual models.
SPEAKER_01Do you feel like this is a this is a question? Um I think back to when I I had to take i eye car classes like 20, 30 years ago, and it was kind of a grudge thing. Like the boss said I had to do it, so I did it, felt I didn't learn anything. Um do you think today it's people are craving the training, or do you think it's still still more looked at as a requirement? I'm I'm I'm curious because it would seem like the cars can be daunting, right? Like I I I think today I would crave the training if I if I were in the technician role versus I would have I begrudged it when I was in it. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Um I would say ideal state is people are are yearning for the training and and I think the industry will get there. I would say today it's it's probably less gr uh begrudgingly they're taking the training than perhaps in the past, but it's still a lot of times somebody is forcing me to do that. The challenge with that mindset is you don't know. Like the the technology, you could get a car in there, you could repair it without ever reading a um an OEM repair manual or understanding procedures or understanding how to do some, and you're putting that customer at risk. Car may look beautiful, but you're releasing something that is a liability to you personally, to the organization that you work for, and you're putting somebody's life at risk. And you can't do that. And so the industry needs to adapt where they're pulling to get the training. And we want training from everywhere. Listen, iCar training is foundational. This is the this is the basis for the platform of training for the collision repair industry. But if you're doing a lot of a specific make and model, you should be reaching out and figuring out how you do that OEM training, how you get uh OEM certified, because you want to make sure that if you take a vehicle in, you can fix it properly. And you think about all these cars now that require special tooling, like does your shop have it? Does your shop have the equipment? If your shop doesn't have the equipment, you shouldn't take the car in. And you know, today I do think we do still have a lot of people that are taking the training because somebody is telling them they have to. I believe they're getting benefit out of it. We want them to get more benefit out of it on a on a routine basis. So they yearn to get it and and they're pushing us to deliver things items or delivering training or knowledge quicker than we are today.
SPEAKER_01Part of it is how you deliver the training is is definitely transforming, right? So I remember part of why I hated it. It was it seemed like I at least four hours, maybe six hours, you know, two nights a week for a number of weeks to sit and textbook learn from a boring instructor. Um again, this is decades ago, but today, how is training advancing and and how are you going about it today?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, my my early days with iCar were similar to yours as far as training. Uh, I would go to the welding center in San Antonio, Texas. They'd sit us at these welding tables with the banquet folding chairs that were uncomfortable after a full day of work and you're gonna spend the next three to four hours while somebody was largely reading reading material to you. And at the end, you got a multiple choice test and then you headed out as quickly as you could. Right. Um today it's completely different. So, one, we've we've changed most of our platform, most of our training, so that um unless it's really hands-on skills development, uh, you may not have to do it in person. So today we offer live online and virtual training. Um, it's easier for people to take. You're not going after a long day of work where you then have to go and sit through a four-hour class. We want to do it when uh based on your time, when it's most appropriate for you and your family for you to ingest that material or or even during the workday. But beyond that, and I and I know that we ran into uh each other at the uh CES show, yeah, uh, and ICAR was there highlighting the new training platforms that we're rolling out. So um I realize that, you know, I'm a I'm on mid-50s. Listen, the way I learn is very different than the way my two uh early very early 20s sons learn. Um and the reality is that we have to adjust the way we're advancing training to attract the students that we need to come into our industry. And so ICAR is rolling out some virtual reality classes uh this year. Okay. Full headset, like you can do it. One of the first ones, the ones we were demonstrating, the one we were demonstrating at CES, was really powering down an electric vehicle, the steps to go through, how you do the check. And you're literally wearing a headset and holding controllers and you're going through that process uh in a in a virtual reality world. We also do mixed real reality. The odds that every collision center in in America is going to invest in a headset and have a special space to go through this, that's not real. So we want to give the training in ways that attracts people to our industry, that they get excited and more important, that they learn. Okay. So to You mentioned the four-hour class. You were sitting that through that four hour class, whether you already knew the information or not. Our goal today is to develop classes. Yes, exactly. Yeah, there was always somebody, uh the local paint supplier was dropping off food usually at some point and handing out cards. Absolutely. So but the reality is that the way um the way that that we do it today, we want to pace you. So we want to present information to you. If you demonstrate mastery quickly on what we're trying to present, let's move forward in the course. Okay. I don't need you to spend the next 15 minutes once again proving that you already knew it. Our courses should be based on the individual that's taking it and the talents they already have, recognizing the knowledge and skill they do have. So they're not spending time um just repeating things and they're getting less and less value. There will be a time where a course that may take somebody five hours to get through may take somebody else two hours to get through. And that's a good outcome because both of them are getting they're going at their own pace and they get skills that they skills and knowledge that they don't have. Um, and today that's a little bit different than what we were doing back when you and I started at the iCar.
SPEAKER_01So at CES, I seen glasses everywhere. Yes, the glasses with uh what'd you call them virtual reality glasses or um but I I saw those everywhere. Is that where you're headed to?
SPEAKER_02So absolutely when we have those in our technical training center day and trying to figure out how we can adapt them. The great thing is when we started down this virtual reality and building this class series that's coming out with virtual mixed reality, they'll launch this year. I think there's eight additionally, uh almost a dozen before the end of the year. But as those launch out, the headsets were expensive. Uh-huh. I mean, you're asking, you know, a thousand, fifteen hundred dollars. Since we just started this now, you look at those, they're two, three hundred dollars. And then you get the the meta glasses or anything like that. And you, you know, you're there's some models today that are under 100. How do we involve those in? Um, you know, you think about on the job or just in time training. Yeah, what a great thing. And so today the RTS line is a line that anybody in the collision repair industry, or really anybody that has a question about the collision repair uh and what to do can reach out to ICAR. The idea that we would at some point in the future be able to provide two-way communication and see exactly what the technician is asking and then work with the OEM engineers to give an answer that that really allows them to make a proper decision, or the the old proverbial, let's cut once and make sure that we get this right is huge. And so, yes, we'll provide, we'll find a way to involve those um those tools that are rolling out and anything else that comes out in the industry.
SPEAKER_01So have you been in the CEO role there for a year now or about a year?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a little bit, uh eight, nine months, somewhere right in there. It went really quick.
SPEAKER_01So what keeps you up at night and what what what it what are you focused on, what excites you? Um and maybe from the perspective of what could others learn from it.
SPEAKER_02Sure. So uh number one, uh let's start with what keeps me up at night. What keeps me up at night is that we are, you know, we have a lot of content out there today. Uh we uh it the the content is like I said, it's on a three-year refresh day, which is much better than it used to be. But I don't know that that's fast enough. You think about the speed of change, the speed of everything going on. Um, is that really quick enough? And how do we get training? Uh, our development time to produce a class is very long. We have a lot of stakeholders that are providing their opinion all through the process. Uh, and uh so a development of a class could take us well over a year in some instances. Okay. We usually really it takes that long. It it possibly could, depending on what we're what we're rolling out. And some will take later.
SPEAKER_01It should be a little nicer to our people that are building training for for well, I'll tell you, you're you're your people are coaching me to go faster.
SPEAKER_02So they're there, like I said, we're answering to a lot of folks. So, what what what has me most concerned is how how can we get information to technicians on a more timely basis so they're properly equipped to repair the vehicles that are coming to them.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Things that I'm most excited about. I've never like this is an industry organization. Everybody wants iCar involved, and everybody wants iCar to do more. And I would say that a lot of organizations such as ours are not growing, they don't have that level of support. We're doing phenomenal. Like even the folks that are mad at iCar at any given time, they're mad because they're supporters and they want us to go faster or do something slightly different. Um that's great because you have passion around it. The people that we employ, like I said, are subject matter experts. An organization that has people that have been there, you know, 15, 20 years is not, is not normal, but it's occurring because they have a true passion for what they do. And they understand that if we produce information, if we get information to the hands of technicians in a digestible way and they're able to repair a vehicle properly, there's a direct line to saving lives. And the technician is the one saving life. It's not iCar, but we do play a part in producing uh in producing material that's gonna lead to that positive outcome. And when you have something like that that you can rally around, the difference you can make, that is huge. I mean, it's uh everybody gets excited to come into work when you have those opportunities.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I see um the demand for your organization getting it's not gonna get easier, it's gonna get more and more because I I describe it to people as you know, the collision repair industry for years has operated where you had that one or two guys that knew the hard stuff in the shop, and then you had other technicians that knew everything else. The problem today, now with technology, is everything is hard. So now every technician needs to get further and further advanced. You can't you can't get by anymore with just the one or one or two guys that can fix the hard stuff because to me everything is hard today, and everything is important. So I think the demand is coming more your way for sure.
SPEAKER_02Without a doubt, you think about a lot of times it was the structural tech that everybody's welding on cars. And so it really everybody should be equipped to that level. Um, you may have a light hit individual, but the reality is what they need to know is just as important as is what that that heavy hit uh technician needs to know. I would say that there is right now in our industry, because of the technology, there's a real blurring occurring of the difference between what collision repair is and mechanical and and everything, I mean the level of electronics that uh technicians are having to deal with today is very different than than just five years ago, and it's only going up. And so the even the skills necessary uh have changed, and and we need to be able to help evolve the training to make sure that we're meeting all of those needs, where historically we're very focused specifically on just the collision aspect of training.
SPEAKER_01When, you know, one of the things that um I've spent um a good amount of time doing is trying to attract people to the industry and and just blue-collar in in general, because I I believe there's a lot of opportunity that's been stereotyped or people kind of looked down upon in the past that if they knew like the opportunity was there and and that the stereotype might not be exactly true, um, it'd be great for a lot of people to know. Um the collision repair industry has a shortage of technicians and with baby boomers retiring, like it's daunting numbers, even if the numbers are half wrong, I told you, like it's still a huge number of people that we need to attract to the industry and train. And I think there's a lot of trades that are going to be in demand here in the in the future. All the AI and data centers need people need to build the infrastructure for it, right? So, do you see the same opportunity? I guess what I'm describing as an industry problem, not a crash champions problem, or not an iCar problem, or not uh like I see it as a whole industry problem. And so you're in a great role to maybe get collaboration amongst competitors, amongst all these different stakeholders. Um how do you how do you view that? How do you look at that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I th I think it's a responsibility that the organization has. I look at um to your point, whether the number is and the number that gets thrown out most frequently is the industry needs a hundred thousand techs uh at any given time. And and to your point, even if it's half that, uh, w there's no program today that is producing anywhere near enough folks to meet that need as we go forward. So when you think about uh you have your own, and I I want to say it's the the STEP program, I believe. Yes. So you have the STEP program, we have the collision engineering program, um, some of your competitors have their own programs. Everybody's working to produce technicians. Uh, I would question whether the protection the technicians that we're producing are at the same rate as folks that are fleeing the industry. To you, to your um, you know, it's not a it's not a young man's game today, uh, being a collision technician. Uh the idea of the blue collar uh meaning his uh uh was, and I can't remember who said it, but I heard I heard it referenced as uh it previously meant meant less than. And if we have folks that are looking at it that way moving forward, it it's it's disastrous. Um you know the reality is is, and you mentioned AI, AI is gonna remove a lot of the a lot of the jobs that are currently out there today that aren't really um super technical, and even then those will come. And so you're gonna have all these folks that went through and got a college degree that their jobs have been replaced with AI. And so maybe what was once a required path for whatever they wanted to achieve, these are six-figure incomes. If you're a collision repair technician and you're doing it well, we have a great story to say because ours has progression. You know, if you go into a some of the other trades, you're gonna go in and you're gonna be in that role that you go in really for your career. Yeah, and maybe you're gonna go on and own your own business or something, lows lines. Um, I saw this segment on uh Fox News, and and there's an individual that you talked about that uh or that they talked to that came in as a technician, and I believe now they're doing production management for you, but they had gone a different couple other steps. Like there are roles in this in this industry that you can move around to when you say, Hey, I want to do something different. And the industry does need to show up as a whole better. When we talk about the need for technicians, how do we do it? ICAR last year rolled out our registered apprentice program, which is registered with the Department of Labor. Our job is to try and help collision centers, probably one smaller than yours, um, set up a formalized apprentice program where they can take apprentices in and go over a two-year premium, go through a curriculum that is now built and come out on the other side. Not everybody has, not everybody can make the financial commitment to do their own program in-house, but we want to create that opportunity because if we could get every shop uh in or half the shops in America uh to do an apprentice, like you're we're solving that gap. Our story is good in our industry. We just don't show up aligned when we talk about it. Um, and and a lot of times we ebb and flow because we'll we'll see work go down and so people take jobs off a board, and then then the next month they're behind, so they add jobs back on. It's really, it should be a continuous accruitment to recruitment to try and get folks into the industry, um, pull from the resources that are out there. We're also largely all competing for the same individual with all of the other trades. And so it really comes down to who shows up best. Uh, we were talking before, uh, I have a my my oldest son uh decided to go through a technical program during high school. And we went to we went to career night at the technical center. Uh it was great. They had uh there was um, I believe it was collision repair, diesel repair. Uh there was like four or five. And as uh as we're going around and you tore it and you go into the different rooms, um, the diesel repair one jumped out. And here's why it jumped out you walked in, every one of the kids in the room had a uniform on.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Like the like a prideful uniform also, like not just the where we gave them out the free t-shirts. Um there, the shop was equipped, the shop was clean, the shop was ready to go. But on the night that they're doing Parents Night for these kids, they also had companies in the in the local market that showed up to talk to parents about careers uh for their for their uh high school kids afterwards if they go through the program. That's huge. Go to the collision, the collision one was good, it was better than some of the others, but you know, the students are in jeans. There's no no local organization showed up to talk about the uh to talk about the opportunities within the collision repair industry. And I just sat there and and my son wanted to do diesel the whole time. So so it was easy. He did a great internship with a grocery store chain called HEB uh in their diesel. It was so structured and so well done that it just the positivity that came out of that was huge. And it also came with it was positive, but it was also responsibility. He had things that he had to do every day. Um, we talked a little bit and and uh not not to go off on a tangent. I when I ran the collision center, I mentioned I ran a collision center at one point. Um, you know, I got there and they had an I would say it's an apprentice, it's somebody that was interested in your uh a career in collision. Uh when I got there, uh he was largely being used for like he'd show up and they're like, Well, what do we need him to do today? And so maybe he took out trash, maybe he swept a floor, maybe did a parts run, some parts returns, maybe took a customer somewhere.
SPEAKER_01Uh that's not structured money.
SPEAKER_02No, it was it was terrible. And I and one of my biggest regrets in my career was when I look back at that, I had the opportunity to positively impact that and I didn't. And so, and and he he stuck around and he he's I don't know if he's still in the collision industry or not, but it was a miss. Like there's an opportunity that when people come in, they need structure. They need like, what do they need to learn? How do we how do we do that? Do they have a mentor that listen? I I gravitate, or I would say people, students or apprentices are going to gravitate to people like them where they can see themselves. Uh and uh and that may not be me, but so find a mentor that does match uh with this individual and takes responsibility to help them get there. Um, you know, that I think we the way we show up today is very disjointed. The more structured we can make it across our industry and then how the industry shows up to not just internally, but to others outside as well. These are high, I mean, these are high skill jobs that we're offering. They have they offer great career paths, and it is a career opportunity. These can be, you know, 30, 40 year careers. We just have to get the story down and tell all tell it aligned so people are excited about it. And today I think we still come across very disjointed.
SPEAKER_01So you think more of a unified message? Because that's what my my next question was going to be. You you kind of used the phrase of it's kind of can be looked at as less than. And so how do we change that perception? And you think more of a more of an effort to unify Yeah in it's all in the presentation?
SPEAKER_02I I really think it is all in the presentation, and I think that we we should focus on um the high, the high skills required. I mean, if you go to a collision center today, if you go to any of your centers, they're completely different than what they probably looked like 25 years ago. But you know, but my uh my neighbor, you don't go to a collision center every year. Well, I hope you're not, but you know, you may, but but the general public, like you go get your oil change, you're going into dealership. Yeah, we're once every 10 year event. You're once every 10 years. And so uh so somebody may not understand the high, really the high skill required for what they're doing. And when people get to a shop, the general consumer, we should talk about it. Like these are these are exciting things. The investment in tooling, the investment in individuals is high. We just need to sell it as that. And if their last experience was 10 to 15 to 20 years ago, uh or you know, it may it may just not have the perception of what it truly is, which is a high skill uh uh demand job. And that that whole less than that's the anytime any of us hear it, we need to stop the conversation and immediately change it. Yeah, it's just not it's just not acceptable. I would say that nothing happens uh in the United States without highly skilled individuals and you know, collision repair, uh any any of the trades, nothing gets done, built, or moved without somebody uh who is highly skilled doing it. And that's not somebody pushing a spreadsheet somewhere getting it done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree. Appreciate your perspective on it, on it too. Um do you think again, different stakeholders, do you think that all these different organizations are more aligned than than different or um in again in your role need the collaboration? Um I think the goal first is we gotta know how to fix cars right. Like that's the obvious first thing. Anything that you can you can tell without uh it being um a a negative thing about where you see everybody aligned and where you where you maybe think need to be aligned better.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think uh I think everybody in our industry has a responsibility to figure out a way that they can make a difference. And and when I said earlier, you know, if everybody took an apprentice or half of not everybody's equipped to do this. Not everybody has somebody that can be uh be a mentor, not everybody's equipped to to take on another somebody else in the organization they start paying that goes through a two-year program. That's that's not realistic. But there are many that could that are not yet doing it today because either they don't see the value or they don't think they have the time. And so it's our it's our opportunity to find those that they do. But even the ones that don't, that are never going to do an apprentice program because it doesn't make sense, get involved with your with your local collision, collision schools. Do something that that um that builds the industry up. And and while uh everybody says that they don't have time, that's how we end up behind. Yeah. And I would say that when I look at uh the collision repair industry versus some other industries, we are behind in attracting talent. That's why it's 100,000. Um, gosh forbid if it ever got to you know 125 or 150,000, because there's a there's a there's a point there that um it becomes way more difficult to solve. We're we're all attacking it today. I think in five years, because of all the efforts that are going on today from your organization, others like you, uh, from ICAR, from uh from um technical schools, I think we'll solve a good portion of the gap, but there's still so much work that has to be done. The more aligned, the more that we can bring people together. Uh, you know, our organization uh is made up of or supports collision repairs. Uh insurers have a stakeholder here. OEMs absolutely have a stake in this because they want to make sure uh that their vehicles are repaired properly and safely. Um, collision repair schools, you think about the the supplier uh life cycle around the collision industry is huge. Information providers, everybody has a stake in making sure that we solve this and it's getting everybody involved. Today, shops are are the leading the leading the charge. Shops and and organizations like our car are leading the charge, but everybody has to play a role in helping solve the gap. Uh and and that the quicker we get that started and and have the specific asks for them, the better off the the industry will be.
SPEAKER_01Great stuff. You mentioned one thing that I think is uh also needs attention uh probably is the mentor um concern because we have a lot of great technicians that maybe they're not great teachers, maybe not patient enough, or they just don't want to be bothered, you know, they want to concentrate on their job and do well at that and and not take the the time to train somebody else. I I would guess that other industries, other businesses face the same the same thing where you gotta take a minute to slow down and help the person next to you be better, and then you help yourself long term. But the whole mentorship I I think is our our problem to solve now, too.
SPEAKER_02Without a doubt. We're we've div we've developed some classes to help uh identify the mentor or what the mentor needs to be able to do, but that that's that's um table stakes now. Like it's it's really how do you find the right person and how do you uh and just because they're a great mentor doesn't mean that they're gonna connect with every apprentice. And so how do you figure out uh and and I think that's a I certainly don't have an answer for it. I wish I did, uh, but but I want to help people find the answers to that because it's so important. And the reality is is that um while we do have folks that uh say that they don't have the time, um, they also know that they can't handle every vehicle that's coming through that door, and they know that it's better for uh for the entire life cycle to get vehicles in and get vehicles repaired. So while they may not have time in the moment when they understand the larger picture, how it uh how it impacts them, you know, they should they should really focus on um on finding a way to do something. And again, not everybody can do something, but some people can. And uh and the ones that can't do mentorship, okay, well, let's find a way that you positively impact a local school or a trade fair or simply going online and talking about how great your role is. And every every every job has challenges, and you know, I'd say technicians have good and and bad days just like everybody else. But the reality is there's a lot of positive with what we do. When you go and look at technicians, um, I mean, it it it really is a craft. Listen, find a way similar to a podcast, go out, do a blog, you know, um do something that that builds the industry up. It's not this, it's not this perception of, you know, the a black box. Show what we do, show how highly technical it is, demonstrate the exciting things that that uh individuals get to do, and then it'll it'll lift the industry across the board.
SPEAKER_01Great. How do you maybe switching gears a little bit, like I completely disagree with the those that talk about young people today not wanting not wanting to work. Um I say there's probably every generation thinks the generation behind them doesn't has it easy or doesn't doesn't want to work as hard. Um but I I don't I haven't seen that to be true. What what what do you see?
SPEAKER_02No, I see I I a hundred percent agree with you. Uh I would say that um we don't I think that what people want out of a career has changed generationally and generationally. It's our job as the industry to support that in in a way that still we we still get work out of it. And so if folks really value time off, maybe you don't go back to the time where technicians were were flagging 120, 130, 140 hours a week, but there's still a career there. Um, you know, I think that understanding that um some of the newer generations may like uh rewarding or succession differently than the way we compensated people uh in the past. And so find ways to, you know, is it a micropromotion? Is there recognition? Recognition is huge. Like just simply recognizing what they do. Um, do I think that it's uh do I think that the current generation is lazy? Absolutely not. I think the ones that have this, the, the capability to be hands-on and to and to develop a uh skill in a trade, I think have such an advantage, not just over ones a couple years ago, but also um the folks that they that they're going to school with today in in high school, like um coming out of a four-year program today may not really benefit you because the jobs are going to be replaced by AI, as I mentioned just a little while ago. This, you know, AI can't fix a car. It's it's simply not going to happen. And there is a steady stream of work that exists out there. This is a career build uh that uh and it's a launching point. And so I think that um I think it's just a matter of fact, a matter of really just showing people what the possibilities are. I absolutely disagree with anybody who thinks that today's youth doesn't want to work. I have two boys that are always chomping at the bit, proud of them. Uh, but uh but they're not unique. I mean, all of their friends, uh it everybody everybody wants to work. They want to do something where there's reward and recognition for doing it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's great. What tips would you offer um small businesses out there when it comes to training? Um it it's a tough thing for companies. Uh you know, the first hurdle you gotta overcome is you gotta become unproductive while you're doing the training, right? So you've got that. You you've got the the challenge of uh in and again for us it's the the technology is changing so fast it's constant. Um so how do you what are tips for you know small companies out there that that need training overcoming whatever hurdles you might think of that businesses might have in and getting it done?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's it's hard to take people out of production to send them to a class. And this is where the are you doing it begrudgingly or um are you excited about it? And and so it's probably served up in different manners. If if you you know you have cars sitting in a stall that you that you need to repair and and you're being told you have to go take this training, it it's a stop and start, it's very disruptive. Um I would say that you know iCar's responsibility is um only only get people out of production when it's absolutely necessary. Find ways to deliver training, short training sessions, training that can be done in a virtual environment. You don't need to go to that welding uh place that I was going to in San Antonio and sit down on a welding table. It's not necessary any longer. Find ways to build training that connects with folks in a way that they're excited to learn uh and uh it is critical. Now, as the small business owner, I would say that what's the risk of of allowing somebody to work on a car that they're not prepared?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02I mean, and you know, if it's uh if it was Kyle Thompson's body shop, that's Kyle Thompson's name going out the door every single time. And are you okay with with placing your customers, your customer basic risk? You shouldn't be. And so there's there's there's all of that. And so uh and I don't think that the collision industry is unique in the idea that we have training. I believe the complexity and the speed at which things are training in our organiz uh in our industry is vastly accelerated versus anything else. And so unfortunately that requires more training because we have to stay current. And so I, you know, I would challenge that, you know, it's a it's a great time to analyze uh if you're a small business owner with that mindset of, hey, I don't have time to let people train. Probably shouldn't be fixing cars if they're not prepared. And it doesn't have to be training with iCar. Again, find training that resonates, that provides the skills necessary for what you want to do. And uh, but but the reality is is if you're gonna repair a car, you should make sure that you have all the foundational knowledge necessary in order to repair it properly.
SPEAKER_01Interesting difference um, maybe between um you and I on this one, um, because you wouldn't want me touching a car today. I haven't I haven't kept up personally on the training, but I hear you have that you you you eat your own cooking, you you go through your training programs. Is that true?
SPEAKER_02Uh okay, I guess uh I guess uh a little bit of sharing went on. So uh yes, I'm uh I still actively train with iCar. I will I'm gonna start this with you don't want me repairing a vehicle either, under any circumstances. And most of the iCar training I did was on the adjuster or the appraiser side. And so I am I am uh less qualified certainly than you today to repair it. And it neither one of us should be touching a car at this moment. Right. Um but I do stay up uh up to date with my iCar training. It's been a you know well over a decade journey with this. I think I've completed a little bit uh over well over a hundred classes uh as I go through this. And um, it started out uh, you know, I went down this path of when I was uh when I was writing estimates in the field, you know, it's like, hey, I need some foundational knowledge here. Uh I'm getting questions. I need to know what I should be, should or shouldn't be doing. Let me go get this training. And so started that training journey and go. And then, you know, I moved into to other roles where I was leading large organizations and I had the, you know, we made the requirement that they had to be pro level three, um, platinum individually certified. Like that's that's a that's a lot of training. And so I made them go through it. There was, you know, you go through the the challenges of, oh, the, you know, the time commitment, as we just talked about, I don't have time to do this. So I was like, oh, okay, well, let's see how much time it really takes. And I could get it done. And if I could get it done, I was certainly no more or less busy than other people in that organization. And so we had that requirement, and it was, I thought it was a good demonstration of leadership to continue up with it. Okay. And then same thing with when we had suppliers and we put that request in the thing, I wanted to understand spending time on the board. You know, it was it was great because I was still doing iCar training then. And uh at that time we were going through a conversion of um our shopping carts and everything else. I could log in and see. Okay, well, let's let's see how this really looks. And you know what? A lot of the feedback that we got was super honest and and we needed to action. And it was great. I, you know, I remember at that time the CEO of iCar was a gentleman named John Van Alsteen. And uh, I remember calling John and and doing uh, you know, I did a Zoom call and I could pull up the sites and walked him through what I was seeing. And uh it it's just it's just super helpful to understand. Um, and then why why do I continue it up today? There's value in understanding what our customers go through. Uh whether it's you know website concerns and everything else, and you know, we have opportunities uh just like every other organization where we want to do more and go faster, where do you put your resources? But it's great to see what our uh what our frontline users go through on a day-to-day basis, what your organizations go through with trying to get reporting from us or uh or OEMs, you know, getting information to us so we can produce the class. Have to understand all that. And and it's not just getting the report out on what's happening, but going and looking yourself and being able to see it.
SPEAKER_01Where do you see AI um coming in? Um what what excites you about it? I I've said it's a long time before robots fix cars. So we happen to be fortunate where I think it's gonna help us in a lot of ways, not take away the take away jobs where um but just curious your take on what AI. How are you looking at implementing it, etc.?
SPEAKER_02So AI is absolutely a force multiplier. The idea is that things that would previously take us if it was a year to build, is there a way to use AI to get classes closer to real time when new technology is launched, launched? We have to figure out how to do that. Um is it's something we actively work on today. Uh we also realize that internally our data isn't structured in a way that that supports great AI use. What we don't want is people just going on the general um general internet and using chat GPT or AI and and going to an unverified source for information. Terrible idea. Um we'll we are actively working to ingest it so we can go quicker to deliver what our customer base needs from us. Um not easy. I can tell you that. And and you know, where do you put the investment? I 100% agree with you. I don't see a time where there's a robot that's gonna do their variations in collision repair are so vast. I don't think you could ever program a robot that could actually be capable of doing it, or at least not in my time in the industry. But but a lot of the other jobs like pulling pulling the other reports, all that can occur. And so it gives you the opportunity to focus your resources where it adds the most value and AI can solve some of the other items that exist today. Really great that we have a bunch of uh SMEs that that add tremendous value to our organization, but there are things that we can utilize AI for to go faster, and it's now just a matter of getting it ingested and built into the process.
SPEAKER_01Very good. We're all about championing people at Crash Champions. So um given the opportunity, who would you champion and why?
SPEAKER_02No, I I appreciate that. Uh so I went down this path as we had the conversation just a couple minutes ago, and I was like, you know, it's um I know we're gonna talk about a specific individual, but it's all of the volunteers in the industry, and I'm not just talking about iCar volunteers, but um, this industry has a lot of people that spend a lot of time supporting the collision repair industry across the board. They're giving of their time and talents. That's huge. Um, I can't call one out because simply that that would do an injustice to so many others that are doing it.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02But I do have somebody that that uh I worked under, not directly under in my career, that his demonstration of leadership was so impactful on me that that I'd like to go down that path today. Okay. Uh his name is uh General Kevin Bergner. Uh and Kevin Bergner, when I worked for him, was the president of the property casualty company at USAA. Uh General Bergner before that, uh many deployments, uh 30-year Army career. Uh, I believe he he served as an advisor to the president, uh, was uh uh press secretary for the Army, um, just a trim man with tremendous leadership and responsibility throughout his career. Um and and Kevin, one of the first times I got to hear him speak, or General Bergner, I shouldn't use his first name, General Bergner, the first time I got to hear him speak, um, he gave a talk about uh a rucksack and an example, and it's a soldier story, you know, uh you get issued a rucksack and you get a bunch of items that you can put in your sack when you're going out to either train uh or into action. And like load it up. And so as he's giving a talk, he's he's giving us this analogy of every leader has a responsibility to understand what is in an employee's rucksack. What are they carrying? And uh and so you think about, you know, if you put too much in a rucksack, he said a lot of times that's what that's what soldiers would do. They would put too much in a in a rucksack, maybe carry way more water than they're ever going to need, provisions, everything else. Um, you weigh them down. Yep. Individual goes slower because they have so much sitting there and they're not able to keep up. And then when that happens, you slow down others in your process. Just not a desired outcome. But what happens if you go too light? You don't pack enough water, all of a sudden you're a burden because you're needing ration water or secure waters from others. Once again, not understanding what was necessary and uh and and slowing the entire group down. Um, the story was really about hey, how do you make sure you know what each one of your individuals in your organization has? And how can you better help them to optimize and help them be as successful as they possibly can be? And it was really uh leaders have a responsibility to balance what goes in that rucksack. So the individual has exactly what they need to complete the task at hand. Uh and just a just a tremendous, just a really tremendous talk. To hear them give it is I'm not doing it justice today. I certainly know that. But uh, but it's a great analogy to a leader's responsibility to their teams is to make sure that you're um uninhibiting them with things that aren't really necessary so they can give your best day in and day out. So as a leader, that's what I think about today is how can I uh uninhibit my team so they can go faster, they can meet customers' needs, um, you know, shops, your your organization, how do we deliver more uh by removing things that are really not important, but yet we hold on to because they're we believe they're still important to us. So General Bergner, fantastic leader, great lessons in leadership across the board, uh, most accountable uh, or talked about the accountability and demonstrated it also. Never saw him uh ask or do or ask for something to be done that he wasn't willing to do himself, and took extreme ownership in difficult times because he knew that was his role with the organization. Just a tremendous individual.
SPEAKER_01Appreciate that. You know, I I feel like I probably missed an opportunity in this conversation because you talked about leadership at the beginning and that those roles always uh attracted you, and then your shout-out went to uh a leader. So maybe um even though I said it was the end, maybe it's worth asking you some asking you about leadership a little bit and your your thoughts on that. Any tips for us? Um what are some things you feel strongly about when it comes to leadership and and what are maybe some things that you think are are not as good?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, no, I I I appreciate that. So I'm all about accountability.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02If we say, and uh probably in some instances bad, but if I say I'm going to do something, I do that. May not be the best use of my time, but once I'm committed, I'm in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh and I expect, and and I have great executive leadership team that that is accountable. My job is is the using the rucksack example of we spend a lot of time on things that probably matter less uh versus what we need to get accomplished. And my job is to help um to level that out. I've had to do it at other organizations. Sometimes I realized I was the one placing unnecessary burdens on individuals because something I thought was really important, but it didn't directly tie to the most important things we were doing. And it was just something that that I had stuck in my head. So a leader has to understand what an individual is carrying, what you expect of them. They have to have clear um um objectives of what they need to accomplish. They need to know what good looks like and they need to receive positive coaching. And coaching can be is a positive reinforcement, not just what you're not doing right, because you have to tell people what they're doing great. Um, and and the reality is, you know, as uh a lot of the industries I've been involved in, they focus more on what employees aren't doing than what they are. Have an appreciation, especially for those that are able to able or have skills that you don't. And and understanding that um that everybody adds value in their own unique way, but understand and respect what others can do. Don't focus on what they're not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that. I I've been working on that a lot um because it's so easy to find what's wrong, right? Absolutely. Any spreadsheet to show you where where where something's suffering instantly. Um highlighting the what good looks like is what we've really tried to switch to focusing on show everybody what good looks like versus pointing out pointing out the bad all the time.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. More makes it uh more engaging for the employer, uh employee also when they're when they're working for somebody who appreciates in both directions.
SPEAKER_01Biggest lesson you learned?
SPEAKER_02Oh um biggest lesson uh I learned is that uh when there's when there's a lack of leadership in any situation, be the leader.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02I mean you you have an accountability, especially if you're um and it doesn't mean it's a formalized thing, but uh somebody needs to lead groups to get things accomplished. And so if there's an absence of that, fill that gap and uh and help solve it. And the reality is is people want to be directed. They want to know again back to what does good look like? Right. And and demonstration of that and help people accomplish things. Everybody wants to be on a team that's successful. That's really important. Like success matters. Uh, and when you're not in a team that's successful or you don't feel that, it's hard to get engaged. But the more, the more success you can have, the more appreciation that occurs. And it doesn't mean not not improving. You still have to improve, but you know, when you're involved in those organizations that are focused on that, everybody feels like they're win and they're in it together. And that that is so important. Like we um, you know, we have such a noble uh mission and vision. Uh it's so easy to get engaged because, you know, if we do what we need to do, ultimately we play a hand in in saving some lives down the road. That's huge for us. Um and how do you connect that back? Like we're not, this isn't a, you know, we're not trying to connect to, you know, how many widgets or, you know, count. These are these are impactful things that impact the general public, and we have a responsibility to deliver it. Um, lead in a manner that says, here's our North Star or what's most important, uh, anchor to the mission and vision. And if you can't anchor to those, then you have to change them because it should be something that resonates with people and they feel great and excited when they show up to work each day.
SPEAKER_01Thank you very much, Kyle. Thanks for spending the time. Had a great time here. Thank you for having me, Matt. I appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. If you want more podcrash in your life, which of course you do, make sure to like, follow, and subscribe to us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Catch you next time.