Born Fabulous
Born Fabulous
Season 3, Episode 18, Part 2: June & Jim Zoul with Melody & Bob Rupple, "James and Kristen's Inclusive Education Builds Determination"
Have you ever witnessed the transformative power of a community that opens its arms to every member, no matter the challenges they face? That's the heartwarming reality June and Jim Zoll, and Melody and Bob Ruppel have lived as they raised their children, James and Kristen, who both have Down syndrome. In our latest episode, we're honored to invite these exceptional parents to share their compelling narratives. They reveal the formidable struggles and uplifting victories of advocating for inclusive education, where every child is given the chance to thrive. Their stories highlight the meaningful changes that occur when children are embraced for who they are, as James's evolution from 'Jimmy' to 'James' poignantly exemplifies.
Our conversation isn't just a journey through the halls of academia; it's a testament to the enduring spirit of families striving for independence and interdependence for their loved ones. The Zolls and Ruppels offer insights into the importance of forging strong partnerships with teachers, fostering understanding among peers, and the crucial role that parental advocacy plays in shaping a fulfilling educational experience. Listen as we celebrate Kristen's blossoming in a performing arts magnet school, and James's trailblazing path to full inclusion from elementary school onwards. This episode isn't just a narrative—it's a blueprint for hope, determination, and the belief that an inclusive world is not only possible but imperative.
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Hello, my name is Greta Harrison. Welcome to Born Fabulous Podcast, Season 3, Episode 18. The theme of this season is young adults with intellectual disabilities living full lives of independence and interdependence. This is the second of an in-depth series about marriage, featuring parents, self-advocates with support staff and an employer. This episode features June and Jim Zoll and Melody and Bob Ruppel. Both couples are retired and have been married for over 40 years. They are the parents of James Zoll and Kristen Ruppel, who have been married over five years. James and Kristen have Down syndrome. Now, please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of Season 1, Episodes 1-4. The music and voice are by Rachel Fuller.
Speaker 2:Love is everything. Love is all around. Love is a potion. Love is passion. Love is a potion. Love is passion. Love is devotion.
Speaker 1:Love is fusion. So now let's go to the school years, when we're not talking preschool anymore talking preschool anymore, we're talking the local school. So who wants to go first and address that? And I'd like to know, because I want the audience to know that both James and Kristen were included in their school years and I want to know how that whole journey started too. So my screen is showing June, but I don't know who wants to start June or Melody.
Speaker 3:The school years elementary school for James. He was fully included. It came with a lot of challenges because there weren't many fully included kids at that time. Again, I probably used the social aspects of being around regular peers at his first IEP meeting being very important to me. He happened to fall upon a couple of teachers that saw a lot of potential in him and really being fully included helped him with his reading skills. He's a great reader and speller and texter because of that and a couple of teachers really recognized his learning ability. Because of his lack of speech, a lot of people did assume that he wasn't very intelligent. If you can't communicate, then you might be perceived as not understanding. But a couple of teachers really picked up on that and helped us to include him.
Speaker 3:Because it was early on in inclusion, the supports for inclusion weren't so much in place. So it's one thing to fight to get your child into a full, inclusive classroom. It's another thing to make sure that they're supported so that they will be successful in that classroom. So I found that I always had to help the teacher work with the teacher to be sure that she was getting the support that she needed so that all the kids could learn and that he wasn't necessarily taking away from the other kids learning. So I really tried to be an advocate for the teacher's needs, even more so than them. So I tried to work with the teachers a lot.
Speaker 3:I would even I remember one class I think it was second or third grade going into asking the teacher if I could talk with the students that might not have known James from previous years but went in and kind of you know, just wanted to let the students kind of experience what James's disability might look like, for what he was capable of doing, what he was capable of doing. One thing I did was ask the second graders to look at their best friend and try to invite their best friend over to stay the night and have dinner, but only use two or three words to do that, and so they got to experience how James might have difficulty in asking them to come to his birthday party. Another thing I did was had a little cut out and pair of scissors and asked them to put that pair of scissors in their opposite hand and try to cut this out. You know that might be something that James would have difficult motor skills. So I remember doing that and just, I think for me, the more I could help James be successful with inclusion, help the teachers, whatever, the better it worked for him.
Speaker 3:It wasn't always great. It was challenging at times because of his lack of vocal skills on the playground. If things got crazy and loud it might manifest in anger or fighting on the playground and he would get taken to the principal's office.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't always great but it was necessary and yeah, that was elementary school a little thing, go ahead I was gonna say it was just a little thing that came in right at this same time period was that jimmy announced that he was no longer Jimmy, he was James. For whatever reason, he became James at that time in middle school there and has been ever since.
Speaker 3:The teacher came to. I worked at the same middle school. He went to. I worked in the health office. The first day of school my friend, his teacher, came and told me did you know that Jimmy is no longer Jimmy, he's James. She asked the class the first day what do you want to be called? He says James. So from then on he's been James.
Speaker 1:And did you say he was in middle school when that happened?
Speaker 3:He was. It was the first day of middle school. Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 5:I love that yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. Well, a couple of things. First of all, I love what you said about the teachers Because it's relationships, relationships, relationships and we need to be allies with the teachers. And if we have too many chips on our shoulders it doesn't help our children. It doesn't mean that there aren't bad situations, but as Cindy Pataniak, who's a very famous educator, said, you know there's stones in the road and you have to go around those stones, or through them or over them, but you don't stop, you just try and go around them. So I love what you're saying about the relationships with the teachers. That's very important Praise the great ones and get out of the situations with the not so great ones. But that was good. But my question for you is how did you know way back then to have them on an inclusive journey? Was it the teachers who guided you with that? How did you know that?
Speaker 3:I'm trying to remember I think well, you know Lisa Hotellan was a friend of ours whose daughter was she was exploring full inclusion, kind of looked up to for her desires for her daughter, and I think that was my first introduction to why inclusion was important, and so I think I heard it from her probably first.
Speaker 1:And was he included from kindergarten on, or did it start a little bit later?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he started in first grade kindergarten. He was in a class with all disabled peers and he did not do well in that class. So first grade he started full inclusion.
Speaker 1:Okay, and he was included. His full journey, correct.
Speaker 3:He was. He was, of course, middle school. High school, in particular, I would say, maybe partial. There were a lot of classes, some classes that he could not benefit from, so I don't know fit from, so I don't know a word. Full inclusion in high school there were. Maybe three quarters of the classes were full inclusive, but there was parts of the day that he was not.
Speaker 1:There were parts of the day where he had more support.
Speaker 3:He did.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. All right, melody and Bob.
Speaker 5:Well, when Kristen so she had gone to the regular preschool, and though so when she was ready to start school, regional center decided to put her in a communitively handicapped class.
Speaker 5:I know so she is. She did um kindergarten at one school with a really great teacher and then the next year and she couldn't stay on the same campus, she had to be moved to another school. The whole communitively handicapped class got moved to another school and they did full inclusion for 15 minutes a day and I was like so let's not make our kids stick stand out, let's just invite them to your classroom for 15 minutes a day as full inclusion. You know and these were kids that um uh had a variety of disabilities and then one day she comes home and she's so excited she goes, got in time out. Today you finally made it in time out because there was like 12 kids. There was always someone in trouble and she hadn't been in trouble yet. And I'm thinking, well, this isn't good.
Speaker 5:So then at the time and it may again have been through Lisa Hotel and there was a conference on full inclusion in Orange County and so I drove up and I went to it. And so I drove up and I went to it and you know, this was, you know, a long time ago, but back, you know, they were trying to get all this going and so I got educated, I listened to them and I came home and I went to my school district and I said I'd like to have Kristen fully included. So I start. We started with our neighborhood school where the principal basically said we'll do it if you make us do it. I mean not in that blunt of words, was, but was not the least bit excited about it. No one had ever been fully included in this particular school district at the time. Fortunately for us, we were so lucky because there was a magnet school for the performing arts opening up in our district and they planned to do full inclusion from day one. That was the plan, and so they were actually excited to have her. It was like a miracle. The principal, rodney he was out there to welcome her on the first day of school and her special ed support were just really amazing people that really believed in full inclusion and making it work. So she started there in first grade.
Speaker 5:We actually opted to hold her back one year and start her in first grade and really then she wasn't even in the lowest reading group. Um, there there were a few parents that weren't sure about it and would approach the teacher and go to Rodney. I mean that actually happened. But Rodney said this is what we're doing here. You will have to make the decision.
Speaker 5:The child is not going, and um, we were also very fortunate that that was a k through eight school and so she could go there all through, all up through middle school. And um, so she had the same friends and she had two girls that were pretty popular in the class that adopted her in first grade and kept her with them all the way through eighth grade. By the time she was in eighth in middle school. You know she needed more support and I actually think when she got to middle school the principal was a little unsure about still making it work. But all our IEP meetings you know we were a team Bob would come, he would bring his suit He'd wear his suit bring his briefcase and the first thing he'd do is say can I get everybody's name in the room?
Speaker 4:What's your name? What's your role? I just want to make sure I'm spelling your names right. I was the lawyer. I knew nothing about any of the laws, everything that want to make sure I'm spelling your names right. I was the lawyer. I knew nothing about any of the laws, everything that needed to be done, so my job was like just a bit of intimidation. I'm not going to take no for an answer.
Speaker 5:So they knew that about us and the teachers were like I still think we can make it work.
Speaker 5:And so she went there all the way through eighth grade and you know I am. There were many ups and downs, you know. I have to be clear about that. It's not an easy path. One of the funnier stories was in middle school. She really, of course, liked the most popular boy in the school and so she went in the restroom and wrote names on the bathroom walls, you know, because other kids did that, right, and I don't even remember what she wrote. But I come to pick her up and I'm walking into the school and first is the vice principal and she's like okay, I'm going to tell you what happened. And you always told me I had to treat her the same way I taught treated any other kid, and then always told me I had to treat her the same way I treated any other kid. And then behind her were all her friends. Don't get too mad, mrs Ruppel, don't get too mad.
Speaker 5:So I mean you had to go to the kitchen and the whole bit To you know. And she had to wash the bathroom walls and. But, as I found out, when she got older she told me she was just so frustrated because she liked this boy and he didn't like her because she had Down syndrome. I mean, in her mind that was, you know. But so she finished there at that middle school. So then when she went to high school, they wanted us to look at the severely handicapped class Because, again, this school district had not done much full inclusion. They actually sent people from the district to go on the tour of the high school with us because they knew us. And so we go to the severely handicapped class. Bob and I are standing there going, really, you know.
Speaker 4:So she walks in and she walks up to the teacher and she goes. Would you like me to help you in here, Because I like this class.
Speaker 5:I think I could help assist the teacher and these administrators faces just went. So high school was a mixed bag. It was half and half. She did three special ed classes with support and then she would have three regular classes. That would be like she was in drama, she did choir, she took dance, I wish, which was actually very important because in the meantime, you have to remember, she's got two sisters coming up behind her and you know her older sister's getting away getting ready to go to college and her younger sisters are taking dance, which, kristen, and I guess that's the other thing about Vista Academy is. They incorporated the arts. So she danced from day one. She was in drama from day one. They did music. The idea would be like if you were learning about Indians, you would go to dance and learn an Indian dance.
Speaker 5:Like early California history, history and that kind of thing.
Speaker 5:So same curriculum, but a different way of teaching, but that helped her motor skills so much. All that dance, because kristen does not, didn't have great motor skills, where james is really good at sports and all this stuff, that's not kristen. And so then, and so it was a mix in high school, um, and by the time she was a freshman and the other girls would have been like in sixth and seventh grade and they were taking dance and they were doing all these things. So it has always been really, really important to Kristen that she got to do all the things her sisters got to do.
Speaker 4:And her sisters were always envious of her because they wouldn't have gotten in these schools without her when she was really little. Back to our previous discussions. When they were younger they couldn't understand why they couldn't go down to the special classes To help her with her motor skills or whatever. But I guess two things I can interject that I think is good to say is a couple of things. One is that when we were in those meetings that I came in with my suit and all that, that the new teacher for the next year it was.
Speaker 4:It was a big, always a big meeting with maybe 20 people and it was a regional center and school district and everyone and the new teacher would just be terrified and she'd say I don't think I can do this. How am I going to take care of a special needs kid and still give the other kids attention? And she goes, I don't think I can make this work. But every year there was the old teacher who would say well, last year I was you. Then I went through it and it's not a problem, everything's going to work out just fine and the next year just so funny.
Speaker 4:This is kind of emotional but, the next year, the previous teacher who was so concerned. Now she was telling the next teacher, you know yeah but, also um.
Speaker 4:So I think that's important. You really have to advocate, not for what the problems are going to be, but what the solutions are going to be. And also because Kristen didn't test high enough early on on those early tests and stuff, regional center said we have no services for her because she doesn't test high enough to be able to take advantage of some of the services and opportunities we have. By high school they said, oh, I'm sorry, we don't really have any services for Chris because she teaches she tests too high, she's too intelligent to take advantage of any of our programs. So she got left out in the early years and then left out the whole range because she wasn't intelligent enough. But she's too intelligent. So I found that very interesting too. So you really have to just push and advocate. It's a long, hard journey but it can be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that you're bringing up that the teachers were actually helping reassure the incoming teachers. And I think one sad thing about 2023 is there's so much turnover that in many cases the previous teacher is gone. Oh yeah, you know, which is really sad, and and I can tell you that, um it it, sometimes you didn't know who the current teacher was going to be until the day before because they had so much they have so much trouble hiring teachers and filling the gaps, so I do think that makes it a little more complicated. But I also think it depends on where you live too. I know that. You know I'm in Hampton roads, virginia, where we have a lot of military and a lot of transiency because of that, and I'm not saying that that's bad, I mean, we love our military, but I'm just saying that the area we have a lot of people who move. There are small towns where they don't have that issue, where people don't move. So it does depend on where you are and, just so the listeners know, I'm at, I'm in Virginia. The two couples that I'm talking to are in California, san Diego area. So the beauty of Zoom, the beauty of Zoom, but I like that you added that the beauty of the teachers, reassuring the teachers and it's intimidating to have 20 people sitting at a table. It is, it can be.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Episode 18 of Born Fabulous Podcast, third Season. I hope you enjoyed it and want to hear more. Short video clips from most episodes are available on our YouTube channel and on BornFabulousPodcastcom. In Episode 19, you will hear the Zools and the Rupals discuss more about James and Kristen's school years, james' love of sports, how James and Kristen met and more, mixed with some good examples and stories. Please follow and like us on Facebook, instagram, twitter and Threads. Also, please note that all podcast episodes are now available to listen to on YouTube. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd be honored if you would leave a review wherever you heard this podcast. Now, please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of season one, episodes one through four. The music and voice are by Rachel Fuller. Love holds deeply inside. Love does not tear apart.
Speaker 2:Love is a potion, love is passion. Love never fails, lost in motion.