Born Fabulous
Born Fabulous
Season 3, Episode 19, Part 3: June & Jim Zoul with Melody & Bob Rupple, "Defying Odds with Love and Inclusion"
Have you ever witnessed a moment that beautifully defies the odds? That's precisely what we unravel in our latest conversation with June and Jim Zoll, and Melody and Bob Ruppel, as we celebrate the extraordinary lives led by their children, James Zoll and Kristen Ruppel. This pair of young adults, bound by love and a shared experience of Down syndrome, take us on a journey marked by achievements in sports, arts, and the blossoming of a heartfelt romance. Their story is not just one of personal triumph but also a testament to the power of inclusion and the indomitable spirit of the human heart.
Together, we reflect on James's vibrant involvement in the Special Olympics and the pivotal role sports played in enhancing his social skills and self-esteem. His segue into high school extracurriculars, such as chorus and varsity basketball, exemplifies the importance of inclusive opportunities. Kristen's artistic pursuits, beginning in a K-8 arts magnet school and evolving through her high school experience, illuminate her journey towards independence and highlight the significant strides she has made. The narrative of how a summer of friendship turned into a lifetime of love, marked by James's touching birthday proposal, underscores not just the individual stories of James and Kristen, but the universal longing for connection. Join us as we discuss the vital balance between integration and fostering relationships within the disability community, and witness firsthand the creation of initiatives that pave the way for a more inclusive world.
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Hello, my name is Greta Harrison. Welcome to Born Fabulous Podcast, season 3, episode 19. The theme of this season is young adults with intellectual disabilities living full lives of independence and interdependence. This episode features June and Jim Zoul and Melody and Bob Rupple. It is the second of eight episodes with the Zouls and the Rupples, which is part of an in-depth series about marriage featuring parents, self-advocates with support staff and an employer. Both the Zouls and the Rupples are retired and have been married over 40 years. They are the parents of James Zoul and Kristen Rupple, who have been married over five years. James and Kristen have Down syndrome. Now please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of Season 1, episodes 1 through 4. The music and the voice are by Rachel Fuller.
Rachel Fuller:Love is everything. Love is all around. Love is not hopeless. Love is patient. Love will not stop.
Jim Zoul:Love is an ocean.
Greta Harrison:Bob mentioned that James is good at sports. Do you want to delve into when he started playing sports and just give a little bit of that journey for the parents who are interested in putting their children in sports?
Jim Zoul:Yeah, I'll get into that with you. James actually started at a pretty early age. He was fortunate enough to have some Special Olympics opportunities and he was very, very enthusiastic about being involved in whatever it was going on at that time and he seemed to really enjoy it. And he seemed to really enjoy it and it was a good opportunity for him to interact and make new friends and to this day they're still quite active in the Special Olympics, although the COVID made a pretty big hit on it. But it seems to be coming back now fairly well. And you know, it's just a great opportunity for him to interact with the other athletes and that, and for me it's been really rewarding to watch the interaction of these people. You know, they're just so genuine to each other. You know, even though they all have what we term disabilities, it doesn't matter to them, they just um, they just get along well and they love each other and they root for each other.
Jim Zoul:And, gretta, you mentioned that movie champions to do yeah, and we went, we watched it oh, you did okay oh yeah, and so the the ending of that movie is a perfect example, you know, of what I'm trying to make a point of here. So, yeah, this the sports has been a big, a big boost for james, and even to this day he still enjoys the opportunities.
Greta Harrison:Which particular sports does he like the best?
June Zoul:Well, I think he likes his eye-handball coordination, so he likes bocce ball, he likes bowling, he likes to shoot pool, he likes Baseball. When he played, baseball he liked that. He does love to play just about any sport and he's quite good at it. He does like it.
Jim Zoul:One thing in his years he's come to. He's not a big fan of Losing, Sweating or suffering and you know, he like, like he liked to play soccer, you know, but he pretty soon he learned that and this is like too much that's a good point and in the years he did not like to lose.
June Zoul:He was not and he's still not. But it's much better if he loses.
Jim Zoul:He's pretty pissed for a while no, he's changed in that respect a lot, much better he was terrible. Yeah, he didn't want to be around a guy you know. But now he's so much better now.
Greta Harrison:So did he ever play sports outside of Special Olympics in any community leagues or school or anything like that, or was it always Special Olympics?
June Zoul:It's been Special Olympics.
June Zoul:I will say, though, just real quickly, in high school he did participate in extracurricular. He, as well as Kristen, did the chorus and performed at the Arts Center Christmas programs and he actually was a part of the varsity basketball team at the high school for four years. So the varsity basketball coach was James' adaptive PE teacher at the middle school, he became the coach at the high school, took James under his wing, told me, don't worry, he can travel on the away buses with us to the away games, and the whole social aspect of being one of the team members on the high school team or being part of the chorus or gave him so much feeling of being part of the groups and and it gave him more than I can even say his confidence level in himself walking into, you know, the basketball court. They ended up winning CIF San Diego County Championship at the Civic in downtown San Diego. The CIF Championship Basketball in his senior year traveled with the bus down there and just yeah, any extracurricular activities where they can be more involved with regular peers is pretty cool.
Greta Harrison:Now that reminds me when it comes to Bob and Melody. I just want to clarify. I know Kristen was in the K through eight arts magnet school. Was her high school in the same track? Was it a arts magnet high school? No, it was not. It was not a regular high school. It was a regular high school, but she had had that preparation at the k through eight school you know, she had a great.
Melody Rupple:She had a great, yeah, great foundation built really right, right and, and she really so you know I, I guess when she went to high school we got the story yeah, she uh we, we were pretty freaked out about it because she had to go to six different classrooms and all that kind of stuff, and so and Bob took her, I took her on.
Melody Rupple:Sunday before the class on Monday and walked around Right. But we were pretty anxious about hearing how the first day of school went. You know they had assigned somebody to be her chaperone and make sure she got from class to class, and then they were very helpful. I mean it was very positive thing. But at the end of the day we got a phone call from the school that says Kristen had a good day today. But we just have to let you know that she fired her aide.
Melody Rupple:She did because she knew what she was supposed to be wearing she just didn't want to.
Melody Rupple:By this age she realized okay, I don't want to stand out. I, you know, want to fit in, you know so james and kristin are both very determined people.
Melody Rupple:Yeah, it makes it interesting as a couple because it's challenging for them both at times.
Greta Harrison:Yeah, he's very assertive, um, but they also support each other, so wonderfully so I love that story because I have to mention do do either of you know who kayla mckeown is. She's the first lobbyist with down syndrome, the first professional lobbyist yesterday with her and that's all I know about her okay, she's great and she talks about you know how, the, how many times the aids were in the way and whatever and even kayla didn't fire her.
Greta Harrison:I'm sure when kayla hears this, kayla's gonna be like I wish I'd have done that. I mean that is great.
Melody Rupple:I never had the aid again, that's great.
Greta Harrison:That's classic, that is. That is so great that that is a great story. I love that.
Melody Rupple:And so you're telling me she did not have an aid in high school oh, no, no, but not the aid that was gonna make sure she got to her classes and all that kind of stuff. They just turned her loose she only needed it one day, okay.
Melody Rupple:Sunday with me was all she needed, so she didn't want to be around at all. I love it. But she had other aids helping her with various things and it was a good environment for her. And the other girls all went again to that same high school too, and our daughter ended up no, she taught at the academy.
Melody Rupple:Yeah, our oldest daughter actually taught at the magnet school while my other girls were there, so that's Kristen was an aid in her classroom.
Greta Harrison:Oh, that's great, and you must be proud of what does your older daughter teach?
Melody Rupple:She's the one that works for West Ed now and teaches and trains other teachers, but she taught kindergarten and first grade. Is that Nicole?
Greta Harrison:Yeah, okay, all right, that's great. That's great. She fired her aid. Oh, that is a great story. I love that. That's a great story. Did james have an aid when he was in high school?
June Zoul:he did not I think no, not really like an individual aid. We did the same as bob and melody and, you know, took him the day before high school and kind of showed him his classes, although what we saw when we took him was his special ed classroom that he would report to in the morning before he went out for inclusion, was located over by the janitor's trailer, was located over by the janitor's trailer and I remember seeing where it was at and on the first day of school, going to the principal's office and telling him that the room needed to be moved into the center of campus and that I was starting with him to give him the opportunity to move that classroom into the campus area, which he did, and the principal and I went on to have a really nice relationship, but after that first day, after that first day, because it was not going to work. So, but your question no, to work.
Jim Zoul:So, um, but your question, no, no, he didn't really have um an aid at high school. He do remember that same anxiety, though, that bob mentioned, about having to go to all these different rooms. Now, oh, my goodness, how's he gonna?
June Zoul:how's he gonna do that, you know, but all these kids in the hallway and that, but they did great, though I think that like, yeah, beyond time, but they're pretty uh, routine, ish, uh adults and they learn very quickly. James learned very quickly to get to class on time and what was expected on his own. That's good. And even after high school, greta, they ended up taking classes at the local junior college, actually one city over, where they meaning James and one of his friends they would ride the train to the next city and get off on the junior college campus and go to a couple of different classrooms, classes that they had signed up for, and they did this for a few years. So I think learning how to maneuver the high school campus really gave them the confidence to go then to a junior college campus and do classes on their own, of course, after they were shown, but they were able to learn quite quickly and enjoy the junior college campus for a few years.
June Zoul:James and Kristen were not were they. During that time they became a couple, but when they started at the campus they were not a couple. So anyway, I've probably gone way too far.
Greta Harrison:No, you haven't. We're about to get there, but I just. I want to hit on a point that you mentioned, where I love the way you said it. You, you went and spoke to the principal and you gave him an have to follow the ladder.
Greta Harrison:You can't skip the teacher you can't skip the department head, you can't skip the principal. You, you can't just go straight to the superintendent I mean, so many parents need to. You have to follow the ladder, the organizational ladder, and what you said really hits on that point. And that's true, because 99% of the time, if you follow that, then you will, you know, be more productive, and I just like that you put it that way.
June Zoul:And that's the way I meant it too. I think he knew I wasn't going to stop with him, but so it was up to him what he wanted to do.
Greta Harrison:But you didn't go in there yelling and screaming and whatever you just professionally said. You know what the problem was and how to handle it.
June Zoul:And I worked for the elementary, middle school school district, not the high school district, but I had so many peers that I worked with in the district that he was coming with. I knew I had so much backup there for the way they did inclusion and what the high school district was going to do. So it's good to. I just think parents have so much ability to fight for what their kids need in the school districts more than some parents know. We hold a lot of cards and at my IEP meetings I remember, you know, letting everyone do their spiel, say the numbers give the facts of what they think my child can do, and then I knew that what I I just knew I had more power to get what he needed.
Greta Harrison:Then and the older they get, the more data you have to show yeah I remember in beginning in high school, with that great big meeting with all those people, I had all of the all of we have we call the messa wells in virginia, but I had all her test scores and I had graphs. I had all the data. I mean the older they get, the more you can show, because so then they can see they may have never known anybody who could do that before, but when they see examples and they see data, they believe. But but you're, you're absolutely right that parents do have power. But I have to mention too, you worked for the school district. That is very tenuous situation for many parents, because some parents feel like they can't fully advocate because they don't want to cross certain lines, and so it looks like you balanced that pretty well. I'm glad it can be done. I guess is what I'm trying to say. It can be done.
June Zoul:Yeah, I think so. I guess, is what.
Melody Rupple:I'm trying to say it can be done.
June Zoul:Yeah, I think so. That's great, that's great. So let's hear, I think James and Kristen probably first met and stop me if I'm wrong, but at a birthday party of other friends that they had. I'm thinking for me, the first time I really met you and Bob Melody is at one of Kristen's birthday parties at your old old house.
June Zoul:James and Kristen kind of ran in the same social circle and I remember driving James to your home for a birthday party. He was dating one of Kristen's girlfriends at that time when I first met Kristen and Kristen was maybe jumping ahead time-wise and stuff. Kristen was dating James's best friend, Nick, and James was dating Kristen's best friend, shelly. And what I saw when I would pick James up from birthday parties that they were all attending was James and Kristen sitting together, talking, laughing, having a good time. What I saw when I dropped him off was him excited to see Kristen and them talking and laughing and just having this natural rapport. One time I dropped James off for a special Olympics bus ride to another city and the first person he got off the bus to go talk to was Kristen. So what I saw with them meeting in those social circles was their just easy attraction for each other. Yeah, and so the birthday parties continues, the graduation party at the pizza parlor, just things like that. And oh, I think I became Kristen's IHSS worker respite worker.
June Zoul:Respite worker. One summer I started to give, kristen came to our home and and so they hung out that summer. Let's see the birthday party, james's birthday party Kristen was at. He got down on one knee and asked her to be his girlfriend. Were you there, melody? I was not, I don't remember. But we all kind of stepped back and went wow, okay, this is going to happen. So we had to maneuver the, the uh. Did we maneuver the breakup of the other I?
Melody Rupple:think I think kristen and nick had already broken up. I mean, that was not too serious too long. No, not to. And, and Kristen always would say he's not my type. Yeah, so it's interesting. So it's just that natural attraction that all of us have when we start dating. I mean Kristen was just really attracted to James. She was, I mean, she was, you know, so excited and she thought he was so cute and you know, and she kept going what about this? What about that? You know these other people she goes, oh, they're not my type, james is my type, and she just knew. So, just that natural attraction that we all went through is exactly how they, you know, proceeded to get to know each other and, uh, start their relationship yeah, so and then so, jay, I'm sorry, I was just gonna no no you, you go ahead, you go ahead
Melody Rupple:yeah, they have a really close-knit group of friends, as we've been sort of talking about who dated who, but, um, they've been together really since birth and they're lifelong friends and very active social life, lots of dances and all that type of thing, so they had lots of opportunities to let their relationship grow. It wasn't as though they didn't see each other and then rarely, all of a sudden, they, you know, get together for a date. They were, you know, socializing all the time. You didn't have to depict it as a date or not a date, because it was group activities yeah and so Kristen was no longer with her boyfriend.
Greta Harrison:Had James broken up with his girlfriend?
June Zoul:after the summer of, uh, kristen coming to our home for the summer. Yes, they did.
Greta Harrison:And, um, okay, yeah, all right, so it's so what I like about that story too is it wasn't their first relationship. They had both dated around a little bit right so yeah, that's good. So about how old were they when james got down on his knee and asked her to be his girlfriend?
June Zoul:So let's see 1538. They were. James was probably 23.
Greta Harrison:Okay.
Melody Rupple:James was 22. Yeah.
Melody Rupple:Yeah, yeah, you know I guess going this kind of goes back a little bit to the high school thing.
Melody Rupple:But one of the things I wanted to say is I spent so much time getting Kristen fully included and then I don't.
Melody Rupple:You're back in the day there was this show called life goes on and it had a kid with Down syndrome in it and Kristen would not watch that show and and I thought she'd be so excited and she literally wouldn't watch it. And that was the day I said, okay, full inclusion is really great. But now I need to get back to those girlfriends that she met when she was a baby, because she also needs that other side of life, people that are like her and are dealing with the things that she liked. I mean, it was a big lesson for me. You know that I had spent all this to try to give her as normal life as possible but had neglected the needs of the part of her that were different and she needed support of people like herself, just like we all do, yeah and uh. So once they got to be adults and they had all these social things to do and they were so busy, kristen was so happy to, you know, to have both yeah, she you're bringing.
Greta Harrison:I'm melody, I'm so glad you said that, yeah, because you were bringing up. I had a conversation with another parent whose whose daughter is married, and, um, he and his wife told me that they had spent their whole life making sure their daughter was included she's about 35 now that when she got to high school, they realized that they had unintentionally discriminated against people with disabilities because none of them were included and so, without them being included, she didn't know other people with disabilities, and so they made an effort when she was in high school to get her involved in a special it wasn't Special Olympics, but it was a sports team for people with disabilities and that's how she met her current husband. And my light bulb went off, because I've spent my whole life making sure my daughters included, fighting for inclusion, and that's when I, where we live in Virginia, we don't have regional centers, we don't have services at all, we have zero services. Okay, so I said you know what I need to. I fully believe you need to create the society that you want to see. So I got together, built a work team and we're starting something called let's Mingle where I live, so that my daughter can meet other people with disabilities.
Greta Harrison:And if you had asked me a couple of years ago, I would have never thought that I would do that ever, because we're so programmed and I wouldn't change an inclusive journey in high school for the world or all years. I wouldn't change the education, because she needs that solid education, but the friendship on the other side, since we're still not living in an inclusive society. If everybody was included in school, we wouldn't have this dilemma, because they would have the friends with them in all their classes at school. They would have the friends where they work. They would have friends at church. But we're not there yet. So until we're there, we have to make up for the difference. Right now, we just have to until society gets more inclusive.
Greta Harrison:I'm so glad you said that. When I met June in California in January at the Club 21 conference, where both of us spoke separately, I told the young parents I was speaking to then this exact thing I said I wished I would have known earlier stay on your inclusive journey, but also make sure that part of you has your foot in the quote unquote other world too, because you're going to need both. I'm so glad you said that. So glad you said that You're absolutely right, cause they wouldn't have met each other. They were different schools, right? Yeah, and you live 30 minutes apart, so apart, so, and, and I love that they have this group of friends that they've grown up with. And, Melody, I remember you saying the parents that you met when they were babies. You're still friends to this day, yeah so that's, you know.
Melody Rupple:And those parents, you know, I always say you, I never would picture myself as a support group person. And you know, and in the beginning you know, oh, join that. You know, the Down Center of Support group. Well, it turned out that was very valuable. Yeah, and the same for Kristen, you know, I mean, and those parents, we deal with things that other parents don't deal with and so we can talk about that more openly than we can with anybody else. So those friendships, june included, and we have a group of about six moms. We've been supportive throughout their lives and you know, now, as we age, there's new issues to think about. And it's, you know, I think that's one of the benefits is all the great people you meet along the way.
Jim Zoul:Yeah, We've been very fortunate.
Greta Harrison:Yeah, yeah, I love that. Well, I think California, you guys have a lot of cool things that we can all learn from. Thank you for listening to Episode 19 of Born Fabulous Podcast's third season. I hope you enjoyed it and want to hear more. Short video clips from most episodes are available on our YouTube channel and on BornFabulousPodcastcom. You can also hear all released episodes of Born Fabulous Podcast on YouTube. Now, in Episode 20, you will hear the Zoles and the Ruples discuss James and Kristen's independence journey, mixed with some great examples and stories. Please follow and like us on Facebook, instagram, twitter and Threads. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd be honored if you would leave a review wherever you heard this podcast. Now. Please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of Season 1, episodes 1 through 4. The music and voice are by Rachel Fuller. You.