Born Fabulous
Born Fabulous
Season 3, Episode 20, Part 4: June & Jim Zoul with Melody & Bob Rupple, "Independence & Opportunities"
Navigating life with young adults who have intellectual disabilities can be a complex dance of fostering independence and cherishing interdependence. This heartfelt narrative unfolds as we reconnect with June and Jim Zoll alongside Melody and Bob Ruppel, who unveil the empowering decisions that shaped their children's growth into well-rounded individuals. Their stories breathe life into the everyday moments that, while often overlooked, form the bedrock of capability and joy. By integrating their children into family life and holding them to equal academic standards, our guests demonstrate that the pursuit of normalcy isn't merely about blending in—it's about standing out and thriving.
As the conversation sweeps us into the vibrant tapestry of school years and life beyond, the parents reflect on the milestones they celebrated and the support they yearned for. Hear how the children's participation in regular life events like sports, proms, and graduations has woven a richer narrative of inclusion and accomplishment. The journey doesn't pause after high school; the exuberance continues through community college adventures in dance and sign language, culminating in the blossoming of a beautiful relationship. This episode not only salutes these remarkable young adults but also previews the next chapter: James and Kristen's personal and professional strides, set to the resonant lyrics of Melissa Riggio performed by Rachel Fuller. Join us as we honor these narratives that reshape the landscape of what's possible, one heartfelt story at a time.
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Hello, my name is Greta Harrison. Welcome to Born Fabulous Podcast, season 3, episode 20. The theme of this season is young adults with intellectual disabilities living full lives of independence and interdependence. This episode features June and Jim Zoul and Melody and Bob Rupple. It is the fourth of eight episodes with the Zouls and the Rupples, which is part of an in-depth series about marriage featuring parents, self-advocates with support staff and an employer. Both the Zouls and the Rupples are retired and have been married over 40 years. They are the parents of James Zoul and Kristen Rupple, who've been married over five years. James and Kristen have Down syndrome. Now please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of season one episodes one through four. The music and voice are by Rachel Fuller.
Rachel Fuller:Love is everything. Love is all around.
Rachel Fuller:Love is a potion, love is passion, love is devotion.
Rachel Fuller:Love is fusion.
Greta Harrison:But before we move on because I love the story of how they met, but I skipped something and if I don't do it now while I remember, I might forget Can you give me some examples or an example of something that you implemented early in your now adult's life that helped them be more independent, interdependent. Later Can you think of something, and it can be something small too, something mean it doesn't have to be small. I'm just saying it can be something small, it can be small or big.
Melody Rupple:I think in my case because I had other children younger and they were all so close in age and I also had a teenager, so with completely different needs there was just one day where I just decided I can't keep all this up.
Melody Rupple:I mean, I think when you have a kid with with special needs and they tell you they need physical therapy and occupational therapy and speech therapy, you get in this mindset of if I don't do every one of these things, I'm going to wreck my kid's life.
Melody Rupple:They won't be everything they can be because I didn't do all that stuff. But when she was about four, five, and I'm taking all these other kids with me to all these therapies, I'm looking at the other kids and going well, they got to have time to take a dance lesson, they got to have time to do these other things. So I think, just because my life, the way my life was set up, I just made up my mind that Kristen would benefit the very most by just being part of the family and I couldn't give her every single solitary moment and in the long run, that's one of the things that helped her be really independent, you know, and which she is very independent and determined was. She just, you know, wanted to do the things that her sisters do, and skipping one of those therapies didn't make a big difference in that, you know it. It just gave me a sense where I let some of that guilt go, you know, and uh, so I think it just kind of for us hit, you know, happened organically that she had to learn.
Greta Harrison:Yeah, there's a famous advocate named Kathy Snow who talks about that. Her son was Benjamin Snow. Does that? Is that name familiar to either of you?
Greta Harrison:no but um she talks about therapy world and she and because her son has he has significant disabilities and he had numerous therapies At a certain point in his life he kind of let her know he didn't really want to be in therapy world and it was a wake up call to her that I'm not saying therapy isn't important. So please, please, don't misunderstand that. But it was a wake up call that some things can be done at home and some things can be done other ways. For instance, the dance classes Kristen took. That's physical therapy, yes, therapy. And being fully included, I argue, is speech therapy. So you know, there's, there's different ways and that's what Kathy Snow talks about that therapy is important and we need guidance and we need to learn. But we don't need to be caught in this world of going 24, seven, regardless of how many children you have. But I can totally understand that when you have four kids because you're split and, yeah, I understand that. That's a great example. What about you, june?
June Zoul:Yeah, I have to kind of piggyback on that first and just say it's so nice the way that you articulate all of that melody. It makes me just. You know, I'm learning from this podcast about things and that was just one part of what I've learned. So thank you for that, just one part of what I've learned. So thank you for that. And I would I'd have to say that for James, something that happened and continues to happen early on for his that has helped his independence. Interdependence is just his organizational. That early on with his schoolwork or his bedroom or his cooking for himself or just any of those life skills that he had to learn early on, definitely helped him to be the man that he is today. Him taking pride in his appearance when he goes to school, having his homework done, being accountable for his spelling tests has helped with his reading, just all of it.
Greta Harrison:You know you mentioned his. You've mentioned his spelling a couple of times. So I just want to jump in here because my daughter was also a good speller and I remember a few teachers you know they're always trying different educational things every year and trying these systems and one time this particular teacher just automatically gave she had different groups of words for different kids and she automatically just gave my daughter the lowest group and only five words and she was like in fourth grade and I'm like I've always said give her the same number of words as everybody else. She's a good speller, give her what everybody else has. And I wouldn't say it was a battle, but it was an exercise in making that teacher realize just because somebody has Down syndrome doesn't mean they can't be a good speller or a good reader or a good whatever. And give them the chance. Just give them the opportunity because what's made them who they are is that they had a chance and I like that because you're right, it helps in their texting, it helps in life when they're able to spell.
Greta Harrison:I had one teacher in middle school say it doesn't matter if they can spell because they're spellcheck, and I said, excuse me, that's not correct, you know, it's just it does matter. So I'm sorry, didn't mean to go off on a tangent. I see so much I agree with with what both of you are saying.
Bob Rupple:Could I? Could I add one other thing on to what Melody and June both said, too Along those same lines, but a little different slant. We had said that we learned early on not to just take Kristen's limitations or what other people think are Kristen's limitations and let Kristen determine her own limitations and when she needs help. So one of our early on philosophies mine was just to treat her like all my other daughters. Melody has a large extended family, so Kristen has tons of cousins too, so she had all that socialization and example setting, et cetera, of how she should act, but not just about social skills, but any situation that Kristen is in no-transcript, and so my initial way of approaching it is not to help her at all and just say Kristen, this is what you need to do, Let me know if you need some help. And of course if she needs some help then you give it to her. But it's amazing what she can do when you just throw her in and say sick or swim. And even yesterday her purse had been stolen and I won't get into that whole story, but I took her to the DMV to get her new California ID card and I could have easily taken her in there and just say follow me around, Kristen, and I'll get this card for you. But if anyone's been to the DMV, you might know what that experience is like.
Bob Rupple:But I took her in there and I had her do it all. I had her go up and talk to the people at the windows. I was right behind her, you know. If she needed anything, I explained to her I'd already been given a letter and a number and you have to look for it up on the screen and then find out what window you're going to and listen to where they tell you to do and all that kind of stuff. And I just explained that to her and I said okay, you're on your own.
Bob Rupple:And then I started challenging her. You know well, see right now the numbers on this for this window. Where is that window? You know just that kind of thing and simple things, like she didn't want to be in there with her glasses on because she didn't look as nice with her glasses on in her mind, and so of course, she couldn't read any of the numbers that are up over the windows. So, you know, she eventually put on her glasses and was able to coordinate with everything perfectly. So I just stood back from her and let her go and I think that early on, having that as their philosophy not hovering over them at all, that but just be observant to when they do really do need some help, but just assuming they can do it, explain to them what they need to do and then turning the loops and that has really worked for kristen.
Greta Harrison:yeah, she takes pride in being able to figure things out and it sounds like you've also given her a very important skill of being able to ask for help when she needs it, because a lot of people that's hard for them. But what you've done is you've shown her she can do it and she knows how to ask for help when she needs it, right.
Bob Rupple:Yeah, we have the opposite problem. She doesn't ask for help, but sometimes she should, because she thinks she can figure everything out. She sometimes doesn't know what she doesn't know, and that's the issue. We have to look for more than you know.
June Zoul:And James is just the opposite. He asks for help continually, but that's because I'm one of those that would go into DMV and walk up to every counter and do all the talking.
Bob Rupple:So it's interesting how, how you had to pay for it with her debit card. She had to sign off. Fingerprinting get the picture. All this stuff you have to do.
June Zoul:I think that's great and that's where you guys inspire me. Us is to to just kind of allow. You know, I'm trying, after after all these years, I'm still trying to allow him to do more. It's uh, it's interesting, but go ahead, greta I, I just think I I love that.
Greta Harrison:Thank you for that input, bob. I I really appreciate that.
Jim Zoul:Well, this is interesting you, you're gretta, you hit on a real good point earlier on this latest part, and that is giving them the opportunity. All they want sometimes is that opportunity, and I've never. You know, to this day I'm still impressed, along the way, by what the results of an opportunity can be.
Greta Harrison:You know, with James and Kristen, both so and you know, that the difference between James and Kristen and who they are now, and the difference between James and Kristen and who they might have been if they didn't have all the opportunities they had along the way is night and day.
Jim Zoul:Yes.
Greta Harrison:You know they are who they are because of their opportunities. Yeah, and even though your stories are different, there's many more similarities than differences.
Jim Zoul:Yeah.
Greta Harrison:You know. So I think that's absolutely great. So I think that's absolutely great. You know, bob, when you were talking about being in the room and coming in in your suit and taking the names, it reminded me of when Steve Riggio, the former CEO of Barnes Noble he talked about because his wife was a teacher, so she was an educator, and he noticed, at this one particular IEP meeting he he asked who everybody was and then he asked how they knew his daughter and nobody in the room knew his daughter. And he said, when nobody in the room knew his daughter, he left that meeting and told his wife we're moving and they moved, they literally moved.
Bob Rupple:That's a great, a great story.
Greta Harrison:Yeah, he tells that yeah.
Bob Rupple:Yeah, that's something I never asked that I should have.
Greta Harrison:He said yeah, how do you know my daughter? And he said nobody knew his daughter and it's like they were all there to determine what the fate of his daughter was going to be.
Jim Zoul:And they didn't know her, Isn't that something?
Greta Harrison:Yeah, yeah. So and they didn't know her, isn't that something?
Bob Rupple:Yeah, yeah, go ahead. No, you go ahead, go ahead. Well, I would just say two things real quick. One is that we, even as parents today and we certainly have to help the aides that are provided to Kristen and James to understand that you'll assume they can't do as much as they can do, you know, and then sometimes you'll assume they can do one thing. So therefore they can certainly do these other things and assume they can do more than what they can really do. And it's really a learning experience and the goal is to go through that experience and learn what they can and can't really do and then challenge them on on things they can't do and let them go on things that you know that they obviously can do. The other thing I was just going to mention is how fortunate the four of us are to have each other's parents, because if we didn't have the relationship we have, it wouldn't work at all.
Greta Harrison:Oh, and I'm trust me, I'm going to get into that for sure. That's a big part of this conversation, because anybody who's a parent, who has a child, who's old enough to have a relationship, knows that it's got to be. It's not just the two of them, it's the families too. They have got to mesh. So, yeah, yeah, that's definitely true. If you could change one thing about their school years, what would it be? And then piggyback on that and tell me what your greatest joy was of their school years. And if there's nothing that you would change, you can, you can say that.
June Zoul:I mean, that's totally up to you I don't, I don't know that I I couldn't think of a situation that um an instant that I would change anything. I would just always want to get more support and to support the teachers more and to make the inclusion a successful thing for James and the teachers and everyone involved. So the change I would make is just continue to ask for more support. And for James, one of the biggest highlights was the basketball CIF championship in San Diego at the end of his senior year. It just kind of spoke to so many successes that James had through his school schooling years and his confidence and his friendships and all of that. So that was probably everyone's greatest joy for that.
Greta Harrison:There's no words to describe what it's like to be part of a team. Yeah, that's great. Okay, melody and Bob.
Melody Rupple:Well, as far as changing, I don't think we change anything. I guess you'd like the system to change and make it easier so that we don't have to work so hard to make all these things happen for our kids. But obviously it's 23 and not all that much has changed, and I guess the highlights are that she just got to have a regular life experience. You know, it was the big joke with my other daughters and their friends that Kristen was always the one that had the date for prom and she had more boyfriends than any of them and uh and she went to the prom in a limo with you know, a group of friends, so I think that's probably our greatest joy.
Melody Rupple:She has fabulous memories of all that.
Greta Harrison:That's wonderful. I love that. Tell me about graduation. What was their high school graduation like? Was there anything special? Were there any special stories?
Melody Rupple:Not really school graduation, like, was there anything special? Were there any special stories? Uh, not, not really. I mean, she had her cap and gown and got to walk with everybody else and uh, you know again, it was just that normalcy.
Bob Rupple:The fact that there aren't a bunch of stories about how their graduation was for someone with a handicap or a ability. A different ability is the success story and the special story in itself.
June Zoul:Yeah, ours was the same and I totally agree with you guys.
Jim Zoul:Yeah, pretty normal it was a big, exciting moment really for family and friends, you know.
Greta Harrison:Yeah.
Jim Zoul:A lot of support there, yeah.
Greta Harrison:Okay.
Bob Rupple:I'm sorry, Greg.
Greta Harrison:No, you go ahead, Bob.
Bob Rupple:Well, I'm just off of what Jim said. The one thing I guess that is a little different is that with Kristen I'm sure with James the whole family really took part and that's not necessarily uncommon for the whole family to come out and support a graduate, any graduate of high school. But again with Kristen, everyone was so, you know, were part of the support story for her whole life yeah so they came out and it was an extra special, as was her wedding, which we'll get into later yeah so you would say it was magnified.
Bob Rupple:Right, you're just saying it was extra special in that it was happening as a normal thing yeah, as a non-specialty event you know what I'm saying but that she could experience that just like anybody else.
Greta Harrison:That's wonderful, that's great. So after high school they both went and did some classes at the local community college.
Jim Zoul:Yes, they did.
Greta Harrison:Okay, and did they have any classes together?
June Zoul:At the local community college.
Greta Harrison:Yes, they did. They did have some classes together, okay, they did.
June Zoul:That was kind of the time period that they became boyfriend and girlfriend. I think that the college were they there about four or five years, I think. Off and on they or James was. It was probably about four years, four years.
Jim Zoul:I think they.
June Zoul:James started with work in the workout room and swimming and weights and computer classes. When, for after, they became boyfriend and girlfriend and they took more classes together, they took salsa dance together, I think. Did Kristen take some reading classes in the lab? Yeah, she took some reading classes.
Melody Rupple:There was actually a disability department at that junior college and Kristen had some extra support. She took a couple regular classes. She took sign language a couple regular classes. Um, she took sign language. She took um the first because she was uh, she worked, uh, in a kindergarten classroom and, uh, so she would have loved to have got the, you know, the preschool uh certification.
Melody Rupple:But she made it through the first class okay. But the second one was really too hard and she took a couple years, a couple semesters of sign language. She actually knows quite a bit of sign language and then she took a lot of like dance and swim and-.
Bob Rupple:Not a lot of mathematics or science.
June Zoul:No yeah.
Bob Rupple:That's not Kristen's strong suit. Hard math is hard.
Greta Harrison:Thank you for listening to episode 20 of born fabulous podcast, third season. I hope you enjoyed it and want to hear more short video clips from most episodes are available on our youtube channel and on born fabulous podcastulouspodcastcom. You can also hear all released episodes of Born Fabulous Podcast on YouTube. Now In episode 21, you will hear the Zolls and the Rupels discuss James and Kristen's jobs and their dating journey. Please follow and like us on Facebook, instagram, twitter and Threads. If you enjoyed this episode. I'd be honored if you would leave a review wherever you heard this podcast Now. Please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of season one, episodes one through four. The music and voice are by Rachel Fuller.
Rachel Fuller:Love is passion. Love never fails.
Melody Rupple:Lost in motion.