Born Fabulous
Born Fabulous
Season 3, Episode 21, Part 5: June & Jim Zoul with Melody & Bob Rupple, "Jobs, Dating, Kissing, and an Apartment"
When it comes to nurturing the path to independence for young adults like James and Kristen, what does it take? Our conversation with their families unveils the humor, the challenges, and the unwavering commitment required to support these milestones. Dating, cohabitation, and the intricacies of marriage are all navigated with laughter and love, yet backed by the sobering reality of managing support systems and securing funding for independent living. The Ruppels and Zolls share their heartfelt experiences, from the light-hearted moments to the strategic family alignment and self-advocacy, painting a picture of what it means to arrange a life of autonomy for those with intellectual disabilities. Their journey is not just their own but a beacon for others, lighting the way with stories that are as genuine as they are inspiring.
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Hello, my name is Greta Harrison. Welcome to Born Fabulous Podcast, season 3, episode 21. The theme of this season is young adults with intellectual disabilities living full lives of independence and interdependence. This episode features June and Jim Zoll and Melody and Bob Ruppel. It is the fifth of eight episodes with the Zoels and the Ruppels, which is part of an in-depth series about marriage featuring parents, self-advocates with support staff and an employer. Both the Zoels and the Ruppels are retired and have been married over 40 years. They are the parents of James Zoll and Kristen Ruppel, who have been married over five years. James and Kristen have Down syndrome. Now please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of Season 1, episodes 1 through 4. The music and the voice are by Rachel Fuller. Love is everything.
Rachel Fuller:Love is all around. Love is not hopeless, love is fresh, hopeless Love is passion. Love will not stop. Love is an ocean.
Greta Harrison:Let's talk about what James and Kristen are doing now work-wise.
June Zoul:Well, I guess through the years Kristen's done a number of things. You know it's that road to walk of. You know how much money you want them to make. You know there's that whole thing um dealing with well, it impacts their financial services they're available to them and so you know um yeah it's too much money, they're not going to get services.
Melody Rupple:If they don't spend all their money, they're not going to get their services and it's all, and it's a lot more work on our end.
June Zoul:So Kristen has worked in a kindergarten class. She was a noon duty on the campus for a while. She has worked in an office doing filing, correlating, putting binders together, and I guess there's a chance she's going to start doing that again. She has volunteered at the senior center in her community and she's starting a new thing of helping out in a retirement home.
Greta Harrison:It sounds like she's multi-talented.
June Zoul:You know, she just really wants to feel productive and she really likes the feeling of helping other people and she likes being active. Again, just going back to that, you know, doing what everybody else is doing in their lives.
Greta Harrison:And she's a very social person. I'm taking it, I'm guessing yeah, Okay.
June Zoul:Yeah, she is pretty social.
Greta Harrison:All right, okay, and James? Let's hear James's story. So.
Bob Rupple:James had a few different jobs early on. He worked at a smoothie store Robex where he would pack the produce, bring the produce in. He worked at a gym, he would help clean the machines and things like that, and he ultimately landed a job. About four years ago I was reading our local paper and there was an article in there about this new family type brewery that was going to be built. It was two young men that were owners and they were building this local brewery in James's neighborhood and while I was reading the article I thought, well, this might be a great opportunity for James to work at in his neighborhood. So I wrote the owner a letter the address was there in the newspaper article wrote the owner a letter about James that he had been do you think this is something that would work for James? And I put a little picture actually of him and James excuse me, james and Kristen's wedding picture in the letter, which would tug at anyone's heartstrings. And I actually got a call from that owner two or three days later and he was thrilled and excited and just so welcoming with the idea of hiring James. They hadn't completed the building yet of the brewery but it turns out that same owner. When he was growing up back East, his father was very involved in Special Olympics, so the young man owner actually participated in that as well. So he was thrilled to to the possibility of hiring James and was thrilled to to the possibility of hiring James and and asked for James to show up at the training. After the building was complete, james started there with all the other new hires and and did the training with them and it was always very important for the owner, uh, jamie of the brewery, to uh treat James just like any other employee, so had him there from the beginning and so all the other new employees were getting to know James right from the beginning. And the brewery itself is really a family brewery with a restaurant and an outdoor area that has live music and a playground for younger kids, so it's a very family brewery. So James is a server. James is a server.
Bob Rupple:Fast forward, four years later it's been a great opportunity for James. Work-wise approached James with the idea of him and some of his buddies brewing beer there with the brewmaster. So the owner had met James and some of his friends over the years coming in to eat and he thought it might be a really good idea that James and his friends had the opportunity to learn brewing beer. So about a year and a half ago they brewed James and three of his friends, they're known as the four dudes. So a year and a half ago they brewed their first beer. Um, it was um, an IPA.
Bob Rupple:Um, the owners decided, uh, to send the beer kegs out all over San Diego or to different breweries in San Diego County. The beer the first brew sold out and the owners wanted to donate a dollar for every beer sold to a non-profit. That the boys, the four dudes, got together and talked about and decided what nonprofits they wanted to donate these proceeds to. So the first batch was brewed a year and a half ago. They ended up having $3,000 from that first batch to donate, so they chose different nonprofits. One was called Brains. It was a horse facility for special needs people. One was a clinic, a health clinic that saw homeless people. They donated there. So that first brew they raised $300. It sold out.
Bob Rupple:So a few months later they decided to brew again. So everything is brewed under the label for dudes. They brewed a second, third and now fourth time a year and a half later. Second, third and now fourth time, a year and a half later, they have raised. Well, it was $9,000 in the first three brews, but now this brew, I think they raised $2,500. So they've raised about $11,000 in donations with their brews and it's all because of this wonderful brewery called my Yard Live is their name. My Yard Live and the owners have just embraced James and his buddies and they love Kristen as well and Kristen supports her husband at all the brew beer releases. She's very proud. They're proud together and that's James's job. I love that story.
June Zoul:It really is an amazing story.
Melody Rupple:Four dudes brew.
Greta Harrison:It's a great story and, if anybody wants to see more about it, I wrote a piece about it. Was that a couple months ago, june?
Bob Rupple:Yeah.
Greta Harrison:It was two or three months ago, I can't remember. It's a great story, and I mean, the story is not even close to being done yet, because they're thinking about entering competitions, right.
Bob Rupple:They did. They entered in the. It was in Nashville. They had an international beer competition in Nashville and they did. They entered one of the beers that it didn't place or anything. They did. The brewery did have a beer that placed in the international competition, which was exciting, but no, they haven't stopped.
Bob Rupple:They've done the documentary as well, which is really good, but no, I think the owners plan on continuing it. No, I think the owners plan on continuing it. It really speaks to the brewery being a family brewery that gives back to community. They're really that's important to them and their goals. So James just got lucky in the beginning to become a part of it. You know and I think you and I talked about that once, greta about when something so good happens for our young adults, we're cautiously optimistic. It's almost like you're waiting for that other shoe to drop, like, can this really be happening? You know we try so hard to, yeah, to make good things happen for our people that when it does we're a little leery. But at this point, four years later, I'm still going to knock on wood. But we'll just keep hoping for the best.
Jim Zoul:Yeah, there was a lot of trial and tribulations in trying to get him a job. He was very he wanted a job. He wanted a job real bad.
Bob Rupple:He wanted a paycheck for his wife. That's what he wants. That's what he would keep saying. He needs a paycheck for his wife there's so much about this story.
Greta Harrison:I want to make sure I hit on everything. First of all, you say it's just luck. It's not just luck. This is a combination. I always call these God winks.
Greta Harrison:I don't know how religious some people are, but it is a full circle moment. I mean, think about what the owner, how the owner grew up, that made him to be the wonderful person that he is so wonderful that I'm going to be interviewing him after I interviewed James and Kristen, because we need more employers like that. So there's that. There's also the piece where you reached out and you wrote the letter. You know, and that's if you hadn't reached out and wrote the letter, how would the owner have known about James? So I mean, you have to pat yourself on the back a little bit about that too. And and then, and then I want to add in I can't say enough to other parents you have to find people ahead of you on the journey and you have to talk to them, as well as your peers, the people who are the same stage you're at, and help the people that are behind you. But the people ahead are so important and I know that at the time when June and I met, we haven't known each other but eight months now not even eight months, seven months now. But, june, you've been very helpful talking me because my daughter has her dream job and it's such a dream job that I was going through those We've had these conversations of. Is it too good to be true? All of these things, and it's really helpful to have a parent ahead of you to talk to those things about. And they can be somebody in your city, but they could be somebody across the country and you know you can meet them at a conference, you can meet them in a online, in a, in a, in the various groups that there are. There's so many ways now to connect than when you were raising your daughter and even Yazzie's 23,. Things have changed so much from when she was a baby to now how much easier it is for parents to connect. But it's so important to do that because I know you've been very helpful to me through our journey and helping maybe calm me down.
Greta Harrison:I don't even know what the right words are, but a lot of times just relating because I would tell you something and you'd say I know exactly how you feel Cautiously optimistic is in my vocabulary now because of those conversations. You know we can be cautiously optimistic. I don't know when that feeling, I don't know if that feeling ever goes away, because we both know some very, very well-known advocates out there who say that it hasn't gone away for them. So I don't know if it does go away, but it's a great story and I cannot wait to interview the owner, jamie. And it's just a. It's a wonderful story and it's a great story of how a business can be a compassionate business. Um, and I I know I think I shared with you. I have a friend in wisconsin who's working at a brewery and she has a daughter with down syndrome and various disabilities, with the Down syndrome, and she has approached her owners because of James's story. You know, what more can we do? Once you see an example, another business can follow that example. So thank you, thank you for sharing that. You're welcome. That is great.
Greta Harrison:James and Kristen have met. James has gotten down on one knee to ask her to be his girlfriend. Were you both as sets of parents? Were you ready for this? Were you surprised? And how did you move forward? You know what were your initial?
Bob Rupple:thoughts. Well, I think I was surprised at the birthday party. I didn't realize, you know it was happening quicker than I expected it to, so I was surprised but happy at that moment that he wanted to take it a little further. I think we basically to take it a little further. I think we basically it's hard to remember exactly if you both and we had a conversation about it. I know they started to date and we facilitated you know us picking Kristen up for dances in Vista or them going to the movies. I know that we, as parents, tried to facilitate some dating. Is that what you're remembering too?
June Zoul:Yeah. I don't think any of us were picturing where it was going to lead, but because they both their relationships and and and but. Kristen was always different with James.
Bob Rupple:Yeah, yeah.
June Zoul:You know, I mean, it was, it was different, she, she really liked him.
Greta Harrison:And so I guess what I'm trying to get at are those initial conversations of when you have to reach out as parents. How are we going to facilitate their dating?
Jim Zoul:Yeah.
Greta Harrison:Are we going to chaperone? Are we going to let go? When do we let go? That's the kind of conversations I'm trying to get at, because obviously they didn't get married. If you never let go, you obviously let go at some point.
Melody Rupple:So these conversations would have been through between Melody and June. Jim and I were on this side, but for us, I think, it was just transactional. They'd had other relationships and it was really who's going to take them, who's going to pick them up?
Jim Zoul:Yeah.
Melody Rupple:One of their aides take them age takeovers, that kind of thing, and it just kind of, I think, developed organically. Uh, the more they were together yeah they didn't really have to plan their relationship in any way or how we were going to handle it. We'd already known each other at that point. You know as well, so we just felt comfortable with everything.
June Zoul:Yeah, there had been a lot of interaction along the way, really, yeah, and when they were in junior college they saw each other every day and then I was back to working full time then. So June helped me out. She would spend some time at their house and I just think it evolved over over time and we started to see that it was you know, that they were serious.
Bob Rupple:Yeah, I think, as as they would approach us with ideas on things that they wanted to do, places they wanted to go, we would just support them in getting them there and not places they wanted to go. We would just support them in getting them there and not. I do have one story and I'm not sure exactly how it happened, but James and Kristen were in the back seat of my van and I was driving them home from somewhere and we were stopped at a stoplight and they were kissing in the back seat and Bob, did you pull up behind us, they alongside of us, or something.
Bob Rupple:They still talk about that story. Remember when Bob saw us kissing in the back seat and Bob said their story is that you jokingly said to James, quit kissing my daughter yeah, I remember that and that is very much me yeah, I always told James I was going to treat him like all my other son-in-laws.
Melody Rupple:I mean that not at that time yet, because right, yeah, but nevertheless anybody else. Just like I always told kristen you're just been treated like everybody else. So that means kidding with you, that means poking out, you know yeah, I know I I love that story.
Bob Rupple:But you know they, um, as far as like, um, you know them kissing or or doing that normal stuff as a couple. I know that because Kristen was at my home and I was her respite worker. If they wanted some alone time and they wanted to be in James's room doing the art or whatever, the door would be open. Um and uh, it's. It's always a little tricky to know that, that they need some alone time to um, you know, appreciate each other and get to know each other, but still, um, be sure that, uh, it was a little tricky maneuvering those conversations, but necessary conversations for sure, just to know that you know that they're both very comfortable. Whatever it is that they're wanting to do with each other and I don't really mean sexual or anything like that, but just the hugging and the kissing and you know any of that at an appropriate time. Just that. For me, having the son, I just always wanted to know that he was being respectful of what it is that Kristen was comfortable with.
Bob Rupple:I will say another quick story that I was so happy about James got a hickey on his neck, and I was so glad that it was the girl in that case, and not being the boy and being the aggressor. I remember, so we had to laugh. I mean, so you want to like talk about what it is and how James would have gotten the hickey? So it was always a. We started to explore for James and Kristen after they dated five years. We knew that they were going to continue and they both wanted to move out. Isn't that is that about right, bob, did they?
Greta Harrison:then we started to explore them moving in together and um, and when they're dating, remember there's what you have is rare, because they got married. They've been married. How long now?
Bob Rupple:it'll be five years this year. So they dated five years, they lived together five years and now they are married five years so they've been together 15 years.
Greta Harrison:I know that, see, that is. I know that is very, very it's very cool and, like Bob said, I wish this was normal. You know, I pray for the day when this is very normal and it doesn't have to be the subject of a podcast. We get to that day. It is very rare, and part of what makes that rare is the relationship that the two of you have as parents. I mean, it's not just James and Kristen, it's James and Kristen and the families. So remember that it's so rare that there's lots of people who are going to hear this and they're at the beginning of this. When they're first dating and you're taking them places, are you staying for the date or are you just dropping them off?
June Zoul:I think we it was a mixed, but you know they're very capable of going to the movies on their own and uh, that kind of a thing, I mean. Or even if we would go out to dinner, they would sit at their own table, you know. So we've always tried to give them independence. And I think, an important thing, this is not something that the parents drove, kristen and James drove this. I mean Kristen, when our youngest went away to college, she called Bob and I and she goes, I need you to sit down. And she said Kaylee's gone, now it's my turn. I want to move out and you guys need to accept this as part of life. I mean that's literally that.
June Zoul:And I'm thinking I could never sleep again. I just can't even imagine this concept. And the same with James. You know the cute story of James's were at this big meeting trying to figure out how we could make this even work, figure out how we could make this even work, and James just sending a text to the director of the support agency that we use, saying, okay, all this talking, but when am I getting my apartment?
Melody Rupple:That was another one of these meetings with a huge conference table and Beth Gallagher, who heads up LifeWorks, was at one end and James is at the other, and then in between you had Regional Center and all these other people and again about 20 people all around this table. And what it really came down to was that Beth and LifeWorks was just getting to know Kristen and James and they said you know we need funding, but we don't know how much we need yet until we start supporting them and find out what their needs are. Regional Center was under strict budgeting at the time and said you need to lay out daily exactly what services are going to be for them every day so we can calculate what we can give you to accomplish that. And they were just butting heads on that. You know, you got to tell us right now what you need and we'll tell you if we can give it to you. We got to determine what they need and then we can decide.
Melody Rupple:So, anyway, it just went on and on and on and then finally I see Beth just couldn't stop herself from laughing at the one end of the table and she looked at the whole. Meeting stopped. So she looks down at James, she goes. Okay, I just got this text from James and I'll never forget what it said. It said blah, blah, blah, when do we get our apartment? Yeah, yeah, and everybody laughed. They broke the ice and then we came up with a compromise.
June Zoul:You know. So I mean, it's just important that people know it. It wasn't us getting together and saying, oh, let's move our kids out. It was our kids telling us they wanted to happen, and to me it seemed like this overwhelming process and how it would ever work and how I would ever feel comfortable enough and and we're, we're, we're, we're getting there.
Greta Harrison:But I'm still stuck in the beginning stages here. I love that you said it's it's driven by James and Kristen. That's absolutely true. But all I'm saying is, if the families aren't on the same page, it is so hard for something to move forward. They have to be, they have to have the same. For instance, you both rose, you both raised independent adults. That that's not always the case. You could have James be with somebody who's not independent, and then it's so anyways. Yeah, so you. So you, you let, you, let. You went on, they went on the dates and probably pretty early on, they were fairly independent is what I as, what I want to be clear, and part of that is many. I am never going to forget it's.
Greta Harrison:It might be almost eight, nine, 10 years ago I was at a local, the Arc of Virginia, so it's for our state. I was at the conference and I was in the back of a session that was just for self-advocates. So I stood in the back just like a fly on the wall and these were all adults and to a T, they all said parents, stop coming on the dates with us, stop, you know, chaperoning us for 10, 15,. You know, let us have a relationship. That was their number one message and it's just stuck in my head. And I know so many people who are still chaperoning their kids for the entire thing years and years and years later. So that's why I want to be clear from the beginning you were like they were being fairly independent, they're going on their dates. You might help with the transportation.
Greta Harrison:Then we get to the point where this, this very I can't wait to meet Kristen, because I love this, this young woman who says who fires her aid, tells the class, tells the class that she could be the assistant there. I mean, I, I, I can't, just can't wait to meet your daughter. Okay, so I can envision her saying you know, let's have a sit down, it's my turn and that's what it was. So she gave a wake up call to you. Is what you're saying?
June Zoul:It was, and it really took three years from that point to the point that she moved out.
Greta Harrison:And that three years was OK. Did you have like a circle? Did you have a formal circle of support around her? I know you have a large family so that might not have been necessary because you might've had an informal circle.
June Zoul:Already At that point we were managing everything on our own. I mean, I had arranged to get her to college and then she would ride the train with James to June's. And then Bob retired fairly early and really for me because that's the other thing as a parent you have to acknowledge, you get burnt out. You know the constant work of making all these things happen I was to the point of, okay, she could move out, but I can't imagine what this would take, right. And so because Bob retired, he took over a lot of that and it was really him in June that made all this happen. And I'm very thankful for that, because if it was all on me, I don't know. I was like all that paperwork, everything it's going to take to make this happen.
June Zoul:And then the four of us once we decided this might be okay, which is a hard thing, I mean it's a big step. As the daughter of the you know, the female, or the parents of the female, you know, we were like, you know there's just so much involved in that. And so once we decided that we were going to let them try, that, I mean the four of us had just always been on the same page, always worked together so well, enjoy each other's company. We're so fortunate in that area, I mean, I think that's probably crucial to make it happen. So then we, you know, we started looking at different agencies and again, our friend Lisa Hotalan had already done this. So we, you know, went with LifeWorks, you know, we interviewed it. Well, kristen James interviewed AIDS, and eventually all the pieces fell into place.
Greta Harrison:Thank you for listening to episode 21 of Born Fabulous podcast, third season. I hope you enjoyed it and want to hear more Short video clips from most episodes are available on our YouTube channel and on bornfabulouspodcastcom. You can also hear all released episodes of Born Fabulous Podcast on YouTube. Now, in episode 22, you will hear the Zolls and the Ruples discuss dating the journey of moving out, living independently with support, navigating the pandemic, and more Honest and funny stories are woven in this discussion. Please follow and like us on Facebook, instagram, twitter and Threads. If you enjoyed this episode. I'd be honored if you would leave a review wherever you heard this podcast. Now. Please enjoy this clip. Of Love is a Potion. The lyrics are by Melissa Riggio, who was the focus of Season 1, episodes 1 through 4. The music and voice are by Rachel Fuller.