Fishgistics 2026

Fishgistics joins Wally to talk desert racing, Baja, off-road media, and the real work behind race information and tracking. This podcast is all about the off-road industry and the passionate people who support it. In each episode, Wally sits down with the individuals who go the extra mile to create real value in the space. In this conversation, we dive into the role Fishgistics plays in desert racing, the importance of accurate race updates, and what it takes to build trust in the off-road community. Subscribe for more interviews with the people behind off-road.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Is it fish sticks or fish or what? You know, there's a bunch of stuff that we don't know. Yeah, yeah. So fishistics just kind of got thrown out there as a joke and it just kind of stuck. Okay. Yeah. So that was 2017.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Fishistics, who is like the race guy today.

unknown 0:16

This one.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

This one. You know the podcast rule, keep the mic about a hand mount from here. Okay. We'll probably have to pull the thing forward. Yeah. It's pretty garbage equipment. You know, that's like oh, there's the handle thing. Oh. The road stuff's nice. Alright. Are we comfortable here doing this right now?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Should we get? I think we should be good. Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

I gotta make sure that thing's recording.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Oh my god, format.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

I have to format.

unknown 0:52

No.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I think I just turned this on. I don't think it's going to be peaking. Can we get comfortable in here? I've never done this. This is the first ever podcast at uh at the WALL-E studio. Um can you speak, sir?

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yep, testing one too. Good to be here. I think so. How are you looking?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Austin, thank you. I shook your hand outside. Um I appreciate you coming over and doing this thing for me. Uh, this is the the first official. I I've done a test one with with my buddy Mikey, but this is the first official They Call Me Wally Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

All right, glad to be here. Thanks for having me on the first one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Um, what I really want from this podcast, I guess we have to do a little bit of intro, what I'd like to hone in on what this podcast is about for me. Um I'm really passionate in this space. I I work in the space, I live in the space, I I go to as many events as I can um at at the the place I work for. And my goal is I get to meet a lot of different people individually. Like I've been to your golf tournament, yeah, and I get to meet guys like you, and I know that you're passionate, but even if I met you five times in six years, it's probably 25 minutes total. Yeah, totally. You know, so and and it'd be ideal for us to to no, it would be ideal for me to learn about guys like you that went above the norm and and did things because you wanted to see an answer to something and or or be a part of something. And I think it's really cool what you've done. And I don't really know too much about it, so um let's let's start. What I only know you from I see you on social media, and that's where I go to get my information from now about any racing.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

It's pretty much where everybody goes nowadays, it seems like. Yeah, social media has it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

How did you start the the program that you have going in now? Like where did it all stem from?

SPEAKER_03 2:42

So fishistics basically, where did it start? Well, it started. I was sitting at home. Um well, first of all, I used to.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Oh, yeah, what is fishistics technically? What would you describe it as?

SPEAKER_03 2:51

So fishistics, it's kind of evolved. Obviously, it's a social media platform, or you know, on social media platforms, it's really just it's a social media page that brings you news and stuff around desert racing. Desert racing, just desert having fun, recreation, kind of all of it wrapped in one. Um, I started it because I used I used to race, and we can touch more on that later if you want, but used to race after I stopped racing for a little while. I was trying to get information during races, and there was just nowhere to go to find any information. Like social media was kind of new when I first started it, and uh want me to keep going or something. No, no, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

No, I just I just I can hear something at that.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Oh, okay. All good.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

This is again our first podcast, and I know that because when I sit on my phone in my AirPods, I can hear the air conditioning, and I just don't want the hissing noise when I'm having to listen to myself speaking. Perfect. So I didn't want the story to get interrupted. I'm sorry, guys. Oh, we're good.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Yeah, so I was trying to find you know places to go to find information when you're sitting at home. Like, hey, who's winning right now? Like, where is Bryce Benzies? Where is Andy? Where's where's my car at? Like, what are they doing? And pretty much all you had was you had a little dot on a website if you knew where to go to see it, if the website was working, and you could go there and you could try to maybe find the class that they were racing in. If you didn't know what class they're in, you didn't know where to look. There just wasn't anything really out there to tell everyone what was going on during the race. So I wanted to kind of help out with that, and I thought it'd be fun to just start a social media page that just covered desert racing. And so that's what it was. I didn't even have a name for it when I first started and was just talking to a couple buddies. Obviously, my nickname is fish, and I can tell you where I got that if you want later. But um, just kind of one of them was like, Oh, like you're doing logistics kind of um and you're fish. Why don't you just be fish gistics? And I was like, Okay, well, yeah, that sounds good. It sounds kind of corny.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

It caught my attention.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Is it fish sticks or fish dicks or what? You know, there's a bunch of stuff that are not the South Park?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

So fishistics just kind of got thrown out there as a joke and it just kind of stuck. Uh yeah. So that was 2017, is when I started doing that.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yeah. Were you always interested? Like, did you do that as a kid with sports cards or anything? Like keeping up to stats and things like that, or not too much, really.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Like, honestly, I was more into fishing mostly when I was growing up, hence the nickname Fish. That's where it came from. Um, but no, I was like, competition fishing? Yeah, no, no, just for fun. Okay. Yeah, just for fun. So there wasn't really into stats too much or anything. I mean, a little bit. Like, yeah, I watch bait baseball and fishing are my two hobbies, okay, really. So besides off-road stuff. So baseball, yeah, I was definitely into stats and everything in baseball. So um it kind of the stats kind of led to it, but I just was more so just trying to find out what the heck is going on. Like who's winning the race right now? Like the Bajal 1000 is going on right now. I don't know anything about it. There was no live shows on it when I first started this. There was no live show. It was the Weatherman. It was the funniest thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Like it's I would I I'm not a sports fan. When I I like to participate, and I think that's what I like about Bajal like racing, or just off-road racing. I don't want to say ball racing, but racing in Mexico, is that anyone can participate. There isn't there's no entry level. You can show it's good and bad, of course. It's terrible, but there is no, but it it is obviously attainable for a lot, so you you seek it. It's easy to seek. Yeah. Um, for me at least. And I I find a lot of value in what you've done because again, it's it's this nuanced thing that not anyone else is taking advantage of to to actually grade who's doing what, and then figuring out who's doing what because there wasn't any financial gain for anyone to do it. Yeah, you know, and it needed somebody like you to walk in and be like, dude, this just needs to happen.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Yeah, when I first started doing it, like I wasn't even getting paid. Like the first couple, you know, races that I did it, I didn't have any sponsors or anything. I was just doing it for fun. And then as soon as I did it, you know, some people at companies reached out to me and they're like, Hey, like, we want to we can we put our logo on your your during your thing? Like, we'll we'll pay you for it. And I'm like, Yeah, I guess, like, cool.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

But you were providing so much value right off the bat. Yeah, you must have done some research before this. It's not like like well, I've done it my whole life.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

So I grew up racing. I've worked in the industry my whole life. Literally, when I was 16, I built my own racetru, went out, won a couple championships with it. So really, I've done all that. You know, I worked for um teams doing prep that had unlimited budget, Alan Fluger. So we had I I grew I've grown up seeing everything around desert racing, been going to desert races since I was, you know, 15 years old. So now I'm 42. So more than more than what three quarters of my life pretty much have been going to races. So I just kind of knew who everybody was already, and that's kind of why I think like it worked too. Because if you had just came in and you didn't know anything about anybody and everyone's new, I don't think you would have had the same connection that I had to a lot of people. And that's kind of why I think it made it work. I had connections with a lot of people in the industry, a lot of racers, a lot of people at different, you know, shops. Just I knew I knew a lot of people. Yeah, so that's the only way I was able to pull it off, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, the whole fashistics thing.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

The whole fishistics thing, just getting the information I was getting from.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Of course, but that's that's kind of a like it's not that you were able to do it. It's like you, it's not like you had to. It's not like someone asked you to do it. It's you did it because you wanted it to happen.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Well, somebody had to do it and nobody else was doing it. You know, there was a couple things out there. Um, Dirt News, Tim Sanchez back in the day, he kind of did a little bit of live coverage. Um, I actually I worked for Race Desert before, so I used to work for Race Desert. We actually did a couple live broadcasts from down in Mexico of like the start and finish of a race back in the day. So well before fishistics, um, maybe early 2012, 13, somewhere around there. We actually did a couple live broadcasts from down there. So I had a little bit of experience of doing that.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

But you were touching the waters with that live broadcast stuff. What were you trying to get out of it? I mean, were you having fun with social, or is it just be like, I'm doing this, I'm here anyways like when I did the fish just thing or before that? Yeah, just any of it. Like, what was your you like when you started doing any of this? You you're do you're catching it for you wanted to get the information. When did you start wanting to share it with people? Or how did that happen so quick? Did it happen quickly, or how was that? Because like I said, I'm coming into this space a little different than you. I I didn't grow up off-roading. Yeah, I got in I got into off-roading in my mid-early 20s, and it's met friends of a friend of TNT guys that I knew, and they had trucks and I got a ride in them. So I it it led me to the space that I'm at now. I've always been into motor vehicles and stuff like that. Yeah, but now I'm like it's all in off-road, right? It's like everything I do. When so I get I came into the space um, you know, per joining an off-road team, kind of seeing this getting and like doing the ball 1000, whole you know, whole mess of the whole ship. But we we had so much money at the time for that race team. It was a really cool experience to see how the real guys were doing it. The two helicopter, it was crazy, right? Um, and you'll you'll know a story from that race, but we uh it was new to me still, and it was still new to me. And then it's like you were kind of on the scene still doing these things. So it's in my eyes, you were a big deal, even though it was probably new and nobody was like you probably thought no one was paying attention. But me, I'm like, man, this guy knows all the information, he knows everybody. He's got he's and people are paying attention, and it's like you know, it's cool. And so it's and then now I'm I've been doing this 12 years, I get to see the backstory, and and I'm like, man, how that he did this for no reason, no one asked him to do it. It's you've turned it this like you must like doing some aspects of it, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yeah, it was a passion project, obviously, you know, in the beginning. Like you said, I had other jobs, I've always had other jobs like full fishistics has never been my full-time job, so I was just able to do it on the side and it and it worked out well. Um, I was working at Daily Engineering at the time when I started doing it, and um Pat and his dad, Bill, they were super supportive of it. Um, daily engineering builds dry sump oil pump systems for race cars, race vehicles, engines. So, pretty much any trophy truck they all have daily engineering stuff on it now. So it's they're they're they're really big.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I've never bought a trophy truck motor, so I'm not there yet. Well, I learned about that person.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Even drag race motors, like they do any kind of real race engine that has a dry sump, it probably has a daily pump and pan on it. So they're just in Temecula. And anyways, I was working there and I was able to um with their support to kind of start fishistics, you know, on the side. And Pat was a racer himself, so he understood it and everything, but it was it was cool. They were super supportive. You know, I'd take a day off and go do a show like this, you know, do a preview show or a wrap-up show. So I was able to do everything uh there, and then it just kind of started growing from that.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I I think when I've seen it from you, it it seems like it's gotta be such a rush during the show, too. Cause like there's there's there's peaks and valleys during this show, and you're watching it live and experiencing it, and like it seems like you're having fun still, like you've been doing it. How long you've been doing it now?

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah, well, the fascism stuff since 2017. So this would be 10 years. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's definitely not quite as exciting to me as it was when I first started. Like, I'll just be honest, I'm a little bit burned out on doing the updates and stuff, but yeah, it's it's fun. The the hardest race to do is the ball hall in thousand. You know, people always like, how do you stay awake all night? Like, what are you doing? You know, like I I'm not doing drugs like I don't do, I'm not doing coke all night, like I'm not awake. Just you know, I'm not doing that, but it's it's because of what you just said. I'm actually into it. Yeah, so when you're following it and you're paying attention every hour, like it it kind of keeps you awake because you know you have something to do. So, like, okay, it's tw it's midnight, but I got to do an update. And then like you talk for 20 minutes and then it kind of game. I'm like, oh man, it's already one o'clock, got to do another update. And then the next thing you know, the sun's coming up. So it's like if you were just sitting there and you were just not doing anything, you'd get bored and maybe you'd fall asleep. But when I know that I have to do stuff, it just I don't even get tired until after the race is over, really.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

I turn into such a participant so quick. And that's it. Yeah, you want to know what's going on. Well, and and just not like, well, when you're when you're doing something that you find value in, it's like you you do forget about time. Yeah, like and that get happens quickly. And I I think what you were saying though, as you're getting burnt out, it's probably the lead up to it because you know how much work is by going into it, but when you're there and you're fine. Yeah, it's like anything, it's like, dude, I'm gonna go run this marathon. Like, and it's like, but when you're you know, you're you're 15 miles, I don't run marathons, you're 15 miles in probably or whatever. It's just clockwork, you're just doing the thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

So yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty much the same thing now. Like I did originally I was doing the best in the desert and score, and and that was a lot. So I was doing like eight to ten races a year coverage. So literally like every month I had a race that I was doing, and then I was trying to do preview shows and wrap-up shows. So like it was a lot, so it did definitely get kind of to be a lot. Now I pretty much just cover the score series, yeah, which is pretty much the main series in racing, and that's the most exciting to me. I like Baja the best.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

So you okay, so that's more that's why you're going that direction. It's it's is yeah, uh, is there any other reason, or is it just specifically like score is just more fun overall for you?

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Best in the desert was honestly, it was kind of dying off. It really was, you know, it wasn't as exciting of races. There wasn't much at the races you could see. So I wasn't getting that much information. It's not an open course race. So there was nobody spectating anywhere. It was just in the pits, and there was speed zones in the pits. So anytime anyone had a camera or anything, it's literally just a car coming by at 20 miles an hour. So there wasn't much to show, there wasn't much to talk about. No one really had helicopters with cameras on it. Now they do a little bit, but there just wasn't enough to cover. Where in Mexico, you have a million Mexicans out on the course everywhere, local Mexican locals, all sending me stuff once they started knowing about it. Yeah. And yeah, I've sent you stuff in the past. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

It's so fun when you know, like you kind of know you're gonna repose it if you get the first one, but it's still fun to see. You know, you're like, okay, especially if it's something good, because I get to go to Mexico in a different way. Yeah, I'm always there on a work aspect. It's really hard to combine work and play. Yeah, you know how it is. It's like that's what's turning this. And you're like, man, I don't get to go to the races and watch them anymore because you're sitting at home doing a job.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Which is part of the reason why I got burned out on a little bit because part of me still wants to go back to the races. Originally, like, I am a racer, like myself. I've raced my whole life. So in the car, like not pit crew. Like, I've never done the pit stuff really, except for when I was younger. But then once I got in a car, I've always wanted to be in a car. Yeah, I want to drive a car. I don't want to be in the car.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I want to be in the driving car.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yeah. I used to do the co-driving thing for a while, and then I got over that. Um, and and then I I retired. I've said that. I'm retired from the right seat. Yeah. I'll still go on the left seat. What was it?

SPEAKER_01 14:37

What which which which which was there, one scare or too many?

SPEAKER_03 14:40

No, it was just kind of just a I don't know. I kind of got over it. Honestly, the the worst, what topped it off was um with the Mango team 2015 Baja 1000. One of our other crew members in another truck actually did get hit and killed during the race, which was a big bummer. Um, so he got he they were stuck in a silt bed, and he got out and kind of a rookie rookie co-driver, just kind of a buddy, didn't know anything. He got out of the car, went to the back of the car, tried to get the stuckboards off the back, and then another car came and smashed into him while he was standing behind the car.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

So scared.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

So I had literally just seen him like an hour ago when we left that pit. And we were in the truck. It I was in the trophy truck, he was in a spec truck and behind us, and we were gone. We didn't know anything happened. You know, we we went through there, I'm in the truck, and then we get to a pit later, and they they tell us what happened, and we're like, oh my God, you know. So that was kind of just like after that race, I'm like, eh, like it's fun, but at the same time, driving was way more fun. And like on the right side, I don't really the risk was a little bit more on the right side to something happening that wasn't really worth it. You know, I'm not in control of the car, like something happens. I'd rather just like, okay, I had fun, I'll retire from the right side. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I I'm I'm in the same boat. There's certain people I would for sure ride with again because I know it's gonna be a fun drive, and I'm not I'm not worried about them kind of catching that edge of aggression. Yeah, because that edge of aggression really changes people, you know what I mean? That that you don't really see someone get frustrated in real regular life, and then all of a sudden, you know, that real road rage comes out because they get to play road rage guy. Yeah, and you're like, this is a different, I don't like this. Like you're not making good decisions.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

The guys that are trying to win when they're like they do not have the talent to win. Like I I I've never ridden with anybody that I didn't really trust just because I'm not gonna get in the car with them. Like, it's not worth it.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Of course, I have and that I think that's a new thing people do is you just want to be a part of it so bad. Because again, I came in as late. Like it's 25. I was probably 24. I owned a house at the time, it's probably 24, 25. And I was getting into pre-runners, yeah. And like, and I just had like it was just an awe thing. And again, it was a long stretch. It's not like I started with all the right people. I I landed this uh where my job in the industry in at like 28. So that's when I started having kind of a broader sense of what was going on in the space, yeah, and more eyes to like the off-road racing side of it. But before that, it was just this awe. And so then I did the you're right. See, like anybody, you you see it when you get it, you want to take it.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yeah, you're just going with whatever is offered to you.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, my my experience is a little different. So I got as far as like the the death thing does scare me in off-road like a lot now, especially like more as I get older, like the mental side of that that'll take a toll forever. The first the first race was 2014. I went to the bottle of 1000. It was a big race. Okay, we we were all money, everybody's big money. It was all it was a peninsula run. Yeah, and again, they these guys we had two helicopters or pre-running a trophy light of time. I gotta go in it. It was so cool. Yeah, what team were you with? It was Nunley Racing. Oh, okay. So that race we lost a co-driver. Not because that we lost uh at the very beginning of the race. Somebody was driving a chase truck and they had an accident, somebody passed away in it.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

On the ch in the chase truck on the highway.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I didn't know the guy. Um, I I met the people on one somebody in the car, and it was it was a sad thing. Yeah, right. And then but it was I was new, it was fresh, and I was like, oh, crazy, you know, it was all it was is logistics for us, and I wasn't anywhere around it. I didn't see it. So I just knew that death was more of a part of the space, like right up front. Yeah, like anybody can die doing this.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah, you're way it's way riskier on the chase roads than it is in the race car for sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And again, this is my this is when I was in college, I wasn't even working in the industry yet, and I got to see this firsthand. Somebody that was a friend of a friend that had nothing to do with off-road, just wanted to come to Mexico and have just see it.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

They didn't even know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Gets in a car with somebody else that they didn't know. They that uh there I wasn't there. There was an issue with them passing, and there was an accident. Yeah, it's it's whatever, it happens. That's the point. We see we see death in this space pretty often. That race, the night race, that caused all the issues for for California and all the you know, the stateside racing. I was supposed to be out there with my friends from TNT. Yeah, because like my buddy Mikey, his best friend was one of the guys that passed away. There's a lot of guys that I know my space because I was from Oxnard Ventura. Oh, okay. So that was a lot of people that passed away. That was the group, yeah. And and it was real frustrating, obviously, in that that time. And because I'm coming up into it, and I'm so excited. You get to watch the races like I'd seen on TV, and it was like shut down. Like the first race in California I went to go see, it's like it wasn't fun anymore.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Then I but I got to see Baja a little bit and I had fun there. But death always gets real quick in this space, and for like usually an unfortunate, and that's why they get talked about a lot, but it's part of it, and I I don't it's gotten a lot better.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Like, honestly, I think that people talking about it and them seeing what's happened and learning from that, like it has really gotten a lot better the last you know few years, especially in Baja. Like the roads, I feel like everyone pays more attention when they're driving now. Um, you know, knock on wood, there hasn't really been any big accidents lately. Like, yeah, there was a motorcycle guy that died. That wasn't really an accident, it was a heat stroke thing. But like I think everyone's being a little more smart. And I talk about that all the time. Like, if you watch any of my preview shows that we do with me and Cameron, like we hound on the safety thing. And that was the reason why. One of the reasons why I started Fish Gistics was after our co-driver died like that, it just took him forever to get information to him to get him out of there. Like the whole situation, nobody knew what to do, nobody knew who to call, like nobody knew anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Well, and and say the people that did have information, they're not like you and uh and are built to share. Yeah, they're only sharing exactly what they need to with who they want to talk to because that's how you're a good platform to gather more information in and share it in more of a public sense that's accurate.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

That's that that's what the biggest thing is, is now I have a bunch of people that'll give me information and I can get it to the correct person. Like if I'm not it, like if it's something happens during a race, like like the last the 500, there was a bunch of stuff that happened to the 500. There was like three accidents within 30 minutes. But within a minute of them all happening, I knew about them because someone was telling me I made sure Jose G knew about it, I made sure Weatherman knew about it, like I made sure everyone was connected, and I think that's a big thing. Like, Weatherman's always done that up on the mountain, you know. People would call on the radio, he would hear them and he'd try to get the response, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

So that that prior to you, yeah, realistically, and other people on social media that they didn't catch or whatever, but prior to you, um, I actually don't know if there's anyone else. I'm just guessing there's somebody who was trying. Um, you'd have to go back and listen to the radio. You'd have to go watch this like 24-hour radio clip and kind of find the minute that something because there was no way there was no AI to search it. There was no anything of like you had to be on the radio. Yeah, like back in the day. Like this was only like not that long ago.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

But before start before Starling came out, you were literally sitting in a pit, even even at the race. If your own team is out of VHF range, you have no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

At that first race, we had the I on Earth.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

That was the close, that was the baller is thing you could get.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Yeah, they were so expensive, all those things. And then you had like the MSAT was the MSAT, which was ten thousand dollars apiece. Exactly. It would work at the shop, and then you'd get down there and it wouldn't work. So Starlink definitely, like, as far as coverage goes and knowing what's going on in a race, Starlink definitely changed the game. And Starlink and my life. Everyone, yeah, it's here. It made it made what everybody was doing at the race so much easier to keep in contact, safety wise, so much better. Like you just you know what's going on the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

But it's so cool because you were you were actually able To see all this before everyone else was like you saw value in sharing the information. Like now we see like most people, and this is what I get frustration with people see value in the the cost opportunity here. They're looking at it at a dollar sense. And I and there's nothing about this space that we we've chatted jokingly, like there's nothing about this space that is a call uh a dollar sense to it. It is so expensive, it's so ridiculous how much everything costs to do anything in this space. Oh, yeah. And so it has to be passion forward. And it and a lot of people can be a part of this space because they can come in with outside income and think they can be a part of it, but they're just kind of a flash in the pan. Yeah, you might come in hot with a great idea, but if you're not passionate about the space, it's it's not long-lived. Ten years of you talking about it's been a while, people, other people racing, is and you know, without NASCAR dollars, you know what I mean? Like it's yeah, you're getting some financial game from it, but I'm sure it's not carrying you through racing. It's not a full-time job. Yeah, yeah. Probably not. You know what I mean? Like it's it's a wild thing that we, you know, and other broadcasters and other spaces get to be a bigger part of this thing.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

And you're doing this out of like well, yeah, it's not it's like if you look at like a sports, uh like a football game or a baseball game, like they have very highly paid announcers that are calling the whole game, right? There is nobody that's doing that in off-road, you know. Even to this day, there's some people, but they're not getting paid. Like these people doing this commentary aren't getting paid for these shows, you know. It's like it's an opportunity. Yeah, which is kind of weird because there's so much money in the other sports doing broadcasting, and then you come to off-road and there's there's none. So you really have to be into it to want to want to do it. Yeah, the budget's just not there compared to other sports.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

I think there's going to be a budget here soon because I think, again, people like you showcasing the value in it. And and honestly, it it's a big dollar sport, it's very interesting how it all has to work because it's it's like nothing else. And it if you can only get eyes on it, that's when it gets interesting.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Now you can get more eyes on it with Starlink and such because you can show the race in the middle of the desert now from a helicopter or from drones. Drones are cheaper now, drones have more range, they have more battery time. So you can actually put people out on the course. And and the race series have been getting better. Like scores scores show is decent now. It is, you know, they they have a few spots where you didn't ever used to be able to do any of that. You had nothing because there was no internet, you're in the middle of nowhere. So you can't show anything. Like, what are you gonna show? Something a week later or a month later on TV. Everyone wants to see everything live right now.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Of course, and that's what you guys have done so well. And again, you guys you caught my attention immediately. So it's really cool that I get to sit here and talk to you now. Because, like, again, it's like it's like I don't see anything that cool. I didn't think but this is the only sport I care about, like other than pool now, which is new. Like, I am obsessed with pool, but like uh it's the only thing I would I would come home from from the thing, I'd be at the event, and I purposely do this. I leave the race at 4 30. And I'll I I always tell people it's the border crossing. I just like my whole day after that. So I would leave, I would, I would get past the border crossing really quickly, and I'd be home by nine o'clock every every start of the race. Yeah, and I'm because I was in Mexico and I could watch the race, but I'm contingency. You were there, you're like, the whole time. I could be I could stay there if I want. I just want to go home because I can sit in my house and watch the race.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Yeah, you know more now being at home than you do at the race, which it's flipped 180 degrees. Because before, at home, you didn't know anything. Yeah, and there was nothing. You had to be at the race, and then you only knew what was in front of you or what you heard on Weatherman, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

In my situation, it's different for most. Most people go down there with a group of friends and they it's different. I'm down there for work. So, again, for me to actually enjoy the race and and participate the best way, it is honestly a come home and watch on your TV like the Super Bowl. Like, unless you're getting the Super Bowl tickets, which again I could have. It's just a different, I have to put so much more effort to have that.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

And you know, and you don't want to watch it later. Like they used to do TV shows that would come out a month after the race. Honestly, I hardly ever watched any of them. Like, I already know who won, I already know everything that happened in the race. I'm not gonna sit there and watch an hour show that it doesn't honestly didn't even tell you half the stuff correctly.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, like they're building it up or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yeah, like the having it live is so much better now. So I I will say I give props to Score and Best in the Desert and Martelly's even, they have a good live show. Like, you know, it's there is a lot more to racing now that is being shown on the T TV and YouTube internet, even King of the Hammers. King of the Hammers is actually where I did my first broadcasting live, was uh Dave Cole. Okay, so the pool thing? Yeah, it's Dave Cole. Yeah, oh is it? Okay, I'll tell you why. Yeah, Dave, Dave did a good live show, and I went out there the first, I forget what year it was. It's probably like five years, five or six years ago. One of the first times when they did the desert, the desert race there.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Is that how you got associated with you? Okay, I'm gonna be a part of this.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Because I never went, I went to King of the Hammers one time before that, just randomly. Like we went and watched like Chocolate Thunder or something and thought it was super cool for the day back, I don't know, 2010 or something. Like early, early. Early. And that was the first time. That was probably when I was again.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I watched like the third year. It was wild.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

So that's my only King of the Hammers experience was that. Then he added the desert cars. And I'm like, okay, cool, I'm gonna go to this. And then they were like, hey, since you're gonna be out here, do you want to sit in the TV truck and kind of help our producer like just sit next to him and help him out? Like if you know who the people are or anything. So I'm like, yeah, no problem. So I sat next to him in the TV truck, not on the broadcast, but just in a TV truck. And I knew what was going on the whole time. So I kept feeding him information. He's like, How do you know that? How do you know? Like, who's that? Like, oh, tell him who it was right away. Like, you see a car coming by, I'm like, Yeah, that's Bryce. Like, they're like, Is that Andy? No, it's Bryce. Like, you can tell by the white wheels or whatever it was. I know you you understand, man.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

You're a fan.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Yeah. So then they were like, okay. They're like, hey, after that year, they're like, hey, next year, like, do you want to come back? Like, we'll put you on the we'll put you on the show. Um, we'll put you on the show. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll try it. So I went the next year and actually did the broadcast. And then that was my first time actually like broadcasting a race live was at King of the Hammers.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah, and and I I think that's great. It's good thing you brought Dave up and everything because he's in this for the passion of it, you know, that he lives out there full time now. And I love that that that again it all draws and stems from you, you you couldn't have done what you did naturally, yeah without having all the the historical built into it. You know what I mean? You can't be like, well, I know I know what's yeah, it's like I know he runs those tires because it's those quick things that add so much value so quickly. And you're adding value to all our space. And it's getting like it's kind of like maybe you're at the early stages of it, but you've you're the reason. Um, you're the reason that like score and uh best in the desert and everyone else is stepping their game up. It's because you showcase them the value add of being live. Yeah, and or being present, essentially. Because like they were like, no, people they'll deal with it later.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Yeah, they'll watch the the show in a week or a month.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

You're like, that's not enough. That wasn't enough for you. So screw it. I'm gonna show you. Yeah, and you showed up and made it happen for all of us.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

Like, yeah, no, I'm I'm stoked that to like have maybe helped kickstart some of that, but you definitely have.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

I I know people don't like to pump themselves up because it's it's a weird thing to do, but like who's your competition? Yeah, punch point your finger.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Yeah, there wasn't anybody doing it really.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

I don't think there's anyone doing now.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

No, no, not really.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Not not equally well because there isn't a financial game.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Yeah. Well, I've kind of and and I've kind of like honestly, I'm kind of got I've gotten over social media more than I used to be in. Like, if you look, I I don't even post that often anymore because like there's so many people just posting bullshit all the time on there that I'm just like, oh my god. And there's so many of these influencers now, which like I can't stand that word influencer. And just people make videos for social media.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

The flash in the pan.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

And I'm like, God, this is just not my style. Like, I've never done that. I've never been the one to just go make some stupid little video because you think it's gonna get a bunch of views and likes. I don't care. People used to ask me, they're like, How many views did you get? I'm like, I honestly don't know. Like, I didn't even look, I don't care. They they're like, Oh, this person has a million views. I'm like, cool, I I don't care. And then you go look at their page and it's like half paid likes that they paid for, and the views are I'm like, what who's dumping money into this?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Organic, authentic is uh goes everywhere. Yeah, and honestly, it transpires because I'd rather transp like I'd rather have it reach 500 people that are interested.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

500 core people than 5,000 that have no idea what it is and just scroll right by it or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah, or that are gonna probably make problems for our space. Yeah, like I'd rather like this this podcast, like what I'm doing here isn't for one, it's for me. I'm pretty lonely up under my hill. It's a good way for me to reach out and be part of um other people's space um and learn about the space that I'm like so interested in. Yeah, and the goal is I don't care to entertain the masses. This isn't like yeah, you don't choose off-road podcast to be like, I'm gonna make it, guys.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Like yeah, you're not gonna make any money off of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

No, but but this is this is all I do, and I just I want to encourage more people to to try at anything because like I like this space so much. I love Nora. Nora is my the only thing I care about right now in off-road racing. Like, and again, I I like score and all the other racing, but it's not attainable for me to do, even though Nora is not cheap. It's still a way I get to go race, drive like an asshole down the peninsula for five days, six days now, or even now ten days. Yeah, I get to make one big budget. It's it's the big, you know, adventure trip of my lifetime. Yeah, and I get to go have this big trip with my boys, hopefully, you know, and like do this race where I'm driving every single day. We're working on it every night. That feels to me what I felt like. You know those OG videos of the Mint 400 when it was at the mint, yeah, the because you know, and it's all the bros racing and they're they're in their tank tops, and yeah, yeah. And you can tell it's like a multi-day situation and they're having fun. Like, that's what Nora feels like to me.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Well, that's what Nora was made for was to get some of that back. Like it's totally different racing. Like, I've raced Nora before too, and it was it was so much fun. Like we did the 1000 and the 500 in 2024 with a UTV, and it was honestly awesome. It was really fun. It it you know, we spent a lot of money doing the thousand, we didn't do it cheap, but it was it was worth it. Like it was, it was it was fun.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Again, it's a bucket list. You don't have to do it every year because because one, you wouldn't want to just keep recreating the same experience again. You want to go all in on it and have fun. We we did that. We were we we raced at class one, my buddy Scott and I in 2017, and ever since then I wanted to get back, but we were sleeping in tents. Yeah, and we were in bay of LA when we didn't do tents. We were sleeping in Bay of the L A when everything was falling down, and nobody could sleep in the tents because the wind was so strong. Everyone slept in the trucks.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

That happened to our crew, actually. I I had a hotel room because we were driving.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

I was like, that was just another spot we didn't have a hotel, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 32:04

It was just yeah, the hotels are hard in Bay of LA and San Ignacio because they have only a couple there, so it's like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

But it it's driven me since to like chase that adventure again because it wasn't we didn't finish, it was the adventure, it was the show, it was so fun doing it, and that's what the big races get in the way of that because there's so much put into one day, and there's not that there's it's a money. Well, it's super stressful.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

The big race is super stressful. Like, I've raced every single series there is, I've raced every kind of car there is from a class 11 to a trophy truck, and I don't even like racing in trophy trucks anymore because of how stressful it is. That like I don't want to be uh like I give major props to guys like Duncan and Orrin and them in those top level trophy trucks, Kyle Kraft. Like they, if they fuck up one time, one tire change for 10 seconds, they just lost the race because of that. Like, I don't want that on me. Like, I'm not gonna have to get out and do a 47-second tire change because Duncan did a 48 and then you lost the race by two seconds because you were two seconds slower. Like, I do not want that stress. I don't care. I'll watch it. Like, I'll go down and do Nora and go have fun and race Nora because it's just fun. And you want to race your buddies, and yeah, I still want to win. It's stressful when you're taking the tire on the window. I'm going to do it. I'm going to win, but you're not on a team that spent millions of dollars to go down there and they lost the race because of you. Like, I don't, I know it's not really because of you, but I would feel like it is.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah, no, you you feel well, you're an owner, you're taking ownership, and that means that means you care, right? And that's all it comes down to. It's like if you didn't take ownership, that why are you even there?

SPEAKER_03 33:30

If you're going to a score race and spending that much money and you're not there trying to win, why are you doing that race, really? You know, go do Nora or do something. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yeah, learn how to drive the car.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

I always I I beg people to do that, but they all want they all want to see it in the big show.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Well, they all think they can just go out there and be an Andy McMillan or a Brock Eager or whatever and just go out there and win and drive like that. It's like, dude, those guys have been racing their whole life. You're not gonna go to the first race and be anywhere close to those guys. I don't care who you are or what you're in, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Well, and and I I've learned this a lot. I I never played team sports. Again, you were in fishing and and stuff like you were saying. I I don't know. Did you play baseball when you're kidding? No, no, just for fun.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

I didn't I did not play any competitive sports time, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah, and I was a skate kid and then like grew up and kind of really just got into all like off-roading and cars and vehicles and things like that, which is all very solo and and individualized. Um and then pool was real recent. This last when I turned 40 or turned 40 this year, and I started playing pool February of last year. So it's 39, really. When I started playing like I do now, like I've played pool in the past, like everybody else, but now how I played pool is different, right? Yeah. And Dave Cole got me into it because he beat me. He'll never beat me again. Ask me, he knows he'll never beat me again. And now I'm playing like a lot. Yeah, this is before I had a table. And so um, but yeah, I uh I play and it taught me a lot about that stress of um and what people it's fun now when I play because a lot of people can play and they say you beat me once, you know, or whatever, and they feel good, right? Because I can play well. And it's like it what the real determination is of what a professional is well, how are they gonna get themselves out when they're in trouble? It's like, yeah, you can make all the easy shots, but how are you gonna fix the game for yourself when it's late? And that's my pool situation. It's a strategy thing mostly. Pool's mostly strategy, honestly, yeah, in my eyes. And same thing with off-road racing. It's everything they did, all those weeks coming up to it, that lead them to that next level expertise.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Oh, yeah, that's why you have to go down there and put all that effort in and do the pre-running and do all that at a score race if you want to win. Because look, I mean, just look at the Bajo 500, it's a perfect example. I'm sure most of you guys maybe watched Bryce's video and Andy's video, and then Luke's video. And to see that those three trophy trucks at the end of that race be that close together was awesome. And Luke had a couple lines that Andy didn't have, and you could see how much time, literally from the helicopter, you watched him make up by having those lines. And that was because he prepared a little bit more in that section and he found that one line. And that was the difference between him winning the race or not. That's all it takes is one line.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

And you're like, I swear, one of the few people that can while you're watching the race, catch all those things together and be like, look, look, guys, this is why I'm paying attention. And like I'm like, oh, he's going fast, big drop.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

Oh, during yeah, during the race, I have monitors all over my room. Like I have probably 15 screens, not no one sees, but all on there, you know, and now everyone has an in-car. So there's watch party and all these sites. So you literally have to watch all of these and then get the information. So if I know who's winning, I'll start watching their truck and then I'll put the second place and you know, right behind them. And then like you see him, oh, he got a flat tire. So I know before the little dot stops, if you're watching the tracker, because you're looking at the camera, like, look, he's getting out of the car right now. Like, oh, here comes Luke. Like, let's look at his front camera. And then you see him go by and you can watch the other guy changing a tire. You know, it's like if you put all that together, yeah, it gives you a good show.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

And you do that. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing all day. So good for me because one, I I will never do that. Period. I will never go the that extra step, but I can also be doing something else and and be paying attention to what's happening and go, huh? Like, you know what I mean? Because like you're making it exciting for us. Well, like it's not just pretty, it's not like you're just showing their videos. It's like you're actually you because you can get excited about it, you get to share that excitement, and then we get drawn into it because it what you're seeing is exciting. It's just hard for me to visualize.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Yeah, and I'm getting I'm getting updates from all over the course from teams and everything. So if someone is pulled over somewhere and now everyone has a phone, everyone has a phone everywhere, everyone has service in Mexico the whole time. Even the Mexican locals, they all have phones now and they have service. Exactly. Their service works good. So you got a guy in the middle of nowhere that'll tell me, like, hey, so-and-so just crashed or something. And you would have never known that unless the guy told me that. So it's like, oh, okay, or so-and-so is changing a steering rack in the middle of nowhere, or whatever they're doing. I get all that coming into me. It's actually too much now. Like it's gotten to the point where my social media page during the like my DM box is just it's insane. Like when I go and do a uh an hour update, by the time I'm done with my 20-minute update, uh-huh, my messages, I'll have 50 new messages that I have to try and go through between pictures and video and just if something happens, and is it just you like it's just me. Just you. It's just me. My wife is behind me helping doing the tracking stuff that I do, which is a whole nother thing. But yeah, it's just me. I am the only one that that runs the page. It's it's only me. So if anything's posted on there, it's just me.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Do you want help? No, because I that was gonna I I could see it. You're like, it's just too complicated to explain.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

I've tried that before. Like, I had somebody that was gonna like help me, but then they had to keep asking me stuff, and I'm like, you know what? I'll just do it. Like and it's maybe that's a big fault of mine, and it could have grown bigger if I would have tried to get people and brought people on, but at the same time, I don't really care. I don't want it to. I like it how it is, and like well, because it's a passion project, it's a funny one.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

It is what it is, and like you wouldn't want to turn that into a job.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

No, I mean, if anything, you could be like a uh I don't know if you try to look at a sports thing, like a John Boy. I don't know if you know who John Boy is, but he's big in the baseball world and he does he does kind of what I do, but for baseball world, then he gets the inside scoop from everybody and does breakdown videos and he does all this stuff, or like Adam Schefter. I don't know if you know who he does. Once again, sports world, he always has the inside scoop. So if anything's happening, he's the first one to post it on Twitter. Like if a coach is getting fired or a player trading traded or anything. So that's kind of like what I see myself as is like those people getting the information and giving it out there. And for me to like have someone else try and help me on race day, it's it's almost more work for me to like have someone there.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

What if you made like a friends only group for guys that you know are gonna be down there that can send you good information? Yeah. And have them filter it. You're like, hey, this is the fish team, and you get a bunch of guys like they get to send stuff to because they know well, that happens to me already.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

So I do have a couple people who I'm friends with who I know if I see a text coming from them, it's something good. So like they won't just send me crap because like some people just tag me in everything, and I'm like, oh my god, that's like the 50th thing I've been tagged in. Because they don't like a car just like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Don't truly understand value add.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Well, it's not even just social media. I'm talking about like during the race. Like I'll have somebody that'll send me a clip of 20 cars coming by the same spot, and I'm like, okay, that's cool, but it was the same thing after the first couple cars. Like, I'm not gonna post all 20 cars. But then if I see a message from like a certain person, I'm like, okay, he only sends me good stuff. Okay, so like I need to open this one, and that's probably gonna be one that I'm gonna share because it's it's good things, you know. So having people like that that I know don't just send me everything in the world helps filter some of that stuff out a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah. I mean, I get I guarantee I'm only asking this because obviously the podcast, like, is there value add in in you know, certain, you know, are the organizations trying to help you guys out?

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Are you are they looking into this as like a are they do they have a team of people trying to send you stuff or um well in the beginning not really, but they're kind of not against you. The only one that ever, I will say, and and people know if you know me, the only one that was ever against anything that I was doing was the Martellis. Of course, yeah. And they had a problem with what I was doing, and I just stopped covering their races. So I said, screw it, I won't cover the races anymore, which is silly because I wasn't even making money off of their races. I literally got paid zero dollars for the races because I was getting paid to cover the other races, and I was just doing theirs for fun. But, anyways, they were the only ones that have ever had a problem. Otherwise, everyone else has been super cool. Like Roger Norman. I've been friends with Roger actually before I started this um for a long time. So Roger is super cool, always been supportive. Jose G at score is awesome. Like he comes on all of our preview shows. Like, he's the man. Um, he's been rad. Even Brian, you know, Brian at Best in the Desert, he's always been supportive. He's always let me do it. He's he's always been stoked on it. They've all been fine. I don't really cover the smaller races, but if I go there, they're always stoked if I post stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Well, I mean, I bet there's so the small races, like in business, right? We there's tiers things that we look at and things like and and the small guys, you're a value ad.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

Yeah, yeah, like a more race. Like I used to go to the more races, and Cody was super stoked when we'd go there and if we'd post stuff, that just helps them out. Same thing with Snore. You know, they they kind of do their own little thing, but yeah, anytime we're posting something, it's free marketing. Like, why would you not want me to cover your race? Well, it's it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

You've touched a an audience that like I don't know of anyone else doing anything. And I am in the space. I am like designated in the space, and and it's not that I haven't seen it, it just hasn't caught my attention. Yeah. So and I don't know what that means, and it's not like I'm a fanboy, but it's just like your information is good and it's accurate and it's quick, and it's like it's what the news is supported, probably supposed to be. Well, that's what I try to do. It's like not opinionated, it's like I try not to, but sometimes I probably do. Of course, but that's that's human nature, but it's not like it's not like a proposed um plan, you know, it's not like you're a fanboy of any of the racers. You're just like, oh, he's winning, dude. This is great. Like it's the game's fun.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

So I do all I will say this. I have gotten over the years, I've I've gotten complaints, it's mostly from wives or girlfriends, and they will DM me and they're like, hey, how come you didn't post something about so and so? They got third place in the sportsman blah, blah, blah class, and they're all mad at me because I didn't post a picture or a video of them. I'm like, I like I don't know how to tell them, but honestly, nobody really cares. One, because nobody knows who they are.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Nobody knows.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just telling you how it is. Two, did you send me anything? Like, no. I and then I've had I have had big teams that have got pissed at me because I didn't post anything about them during the race. And I'm like, did you send me anything? They're like, no, what did you want me to post? I'm not at the race, I'm at my house. Yeah, like I do everything from the office at my house during the race. Like you're intentionally going out of your way to like I didn't not post something about you that you sent me. I didn't post anything because you didn't send me anything. So, like if you tag me in a photo and it's cool, or you send me an update or something like that, I'm glad to share and post it. But you have to tell me. Of course. Like the people that get posted the most are the people that are always sending me and tagging me and stuff, you know? And a lot a lot of them happen to be the big teams, but they also have a social media person or they know the value, so they're giving me information. Yeah, so it's all like it's a two way street, you know. I'm not just talking about Bryce Menzies and Andy McMillan because I really like them. I'm talking about them because they give me the most information sometimes, or whoever it is.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

They've also learned how to put Provide you good information over the years. You know, like, hey, just give them, you know, make sure when you're sending in these, like their teams understands the game very well. And I and I say this, it's interesting because a lot of the racers are very successful in everything they've ever done in life. And this is a new thing. And they are technically successful in this, you know, like technically, but not at the level the Menzies are or anyone else. You know what I mean? Like, so they they they see all the dollars they're spending, and you know how it goes. Oh, yeah. And so they think they're going all in. Like this other teams are like, no, no, you're scratching the surface still. Totally. Like it's nice, and I get it. You bought all the right stuff, just like this. I don't know what I'm doing. It's all that it looks all right.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Well, I like covering I like covering the small teams too. Like, let's not get that wrong. I will always post about class 11. Like, I love covering the small teams. It's easier to get me as much stuff.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

It's easier for the big teams because they they've they've they've done their homework enough and they've they've got a repet, they've got um good people on their space.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

They have a media crew or they have a media guy or you know, consistency too.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Yeah, the guys know you. Yeah, you know, a lot of the times, like I can go on a team and help social media wise, yeah, and then I'm out the next time. Yeah, you know, it's like I'm not doing that for free. It's I'm there because I'm doing it because I can help you. But it's not like I don't want to, this isn't fun for me. Yeah, like I'm only I it's fun for me when I'm there. Just like you were saying, it that was the big point. It's like it's fun while you're participating, but I don't care to win later. No, the view count doesn't do anything.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

Who cares? Yeah, well, it's like everyone else when the Mason I do a I post a lot about Mason trucks and Mason. Do you know why? Because I'm good friends with them and they give me information, they invite me to their shop to do a shop tour to check out the vehicle before it's released. Like it's amazing how that happens. Like, I'm not paying them, they're not paying me. Like, it's just how it works.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Because they see you as value add. Yeah, they know it is. Your intentions are good. Yeah, that's what I see. That's I the the reason part of this podcast, and what I hope to do is to um incentivize anyone that has an idea that they think can add value to the space to do it because you want to. And there is an opportunity for you to land it, yeah. If you do it right, you can care so much, and just that unloan, and if you follow that up with consistency, you're gonna win. Yeah, like you you're go you're winning at whatever fishistics is, not financially, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Yeah, no, he's not winning financially, I'll tell you that. But but it wasn't ever meant to.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

But for the whole industry, you have provided so much value.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 46:19

I mean, I you don't get to see it, but you're in every discussion on every person that's dealing with the races, whether it's good or bad. At some level, you're you're they're participating in what you're doing. Yeah, you know what I mean, whether it's using your your web your your thing to check on updates or doing anything. Like we all, you're the guy.

SPEAKER_04 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

And and it's interesting to me that like there hasn't been a way to financially land it, but it also hasn't deterred you from staying away from it either. Yeah. Because there's value for you.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Well, there is, and I do have some sponsors, obviously, for sure. And it's awesome to have them.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Financial gain is like you get what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

It's not like money's getting rich off of it, you know. Like if you don't have a race program. No, I'm poor. Like, I really am. I'm poor. Like, I don't have a race program. I don't even have any toys right now, actually. Like, I'm in between them all right now.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Like, I saw some fish just, I was like, man, he's doing pretty good. He's got that razor.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

I I've had had some good razors, I've had some fun with razors and expeditions and stuff. Yeah, hopefully I'll be getting another one soon. But um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

But those are value, you're adding value and you're providing for them too.

SPEAKER_03 47:17

Yeah, exactly. It's it goes both ways. Like, I've honestly sold just a razor is a good example. I've sold a ton of razors to my buddies because they went in my razor and they're like, oh, this thing is awesome. I need to get one. Like that's a huge.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

And again, you're not gonna go to Polaris and be like, hey guys, you're gonna sell a thousand units. It's like, no, but there is value add for them providing it to the guy who tells everyone what is of value.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Yeah. Well, it's just like when I and for when I get my razor, it's stock, right? Everyone, all I do is I put up one post of a stock razor and all these companies like, hey, can you you want to put our product on there? You want to put it on there? Like, and and most of the time I try to siphon uh or sort through, and it's not just for razors, anything. I don't like to advertise a product that I don't think is actually good. I don't care if they gave it to me. I don't care if they want to pay me. I don't want to do it. You know, I I'll just use one good example because I like this example. BF Goodrich, they're one of my main, like they've been with me forever. I do think that BF Goodrich has the best tire. I'll just say that. So I've had other tire companies come in and offer me big money to get them as a sponsor, and I've told them no, because I don't care about the money. It's not that I don't care about the money, like obviously I want the money, but I'm not gonna just take their money to try to tell someone, oh, this is the best thing ever, when I don't honestly believe it is. That's just one example.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

I have been a better guess for my first podcast. Because like this right here is zero financial gain and costs it. This is not the goal of this. Yeah, and again, all of it stemming to you can't do this for impure reasons because you're having fun doing it.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

So like you don't want to taint the waters. Why would you taint the waters by being in like so you like have a few extra dollars in your pocket to do what with to like say something in like it doesn't feel good?

SPEAKER_03 48:58

No, no, it's it's not even about that. And you know, I uh people think that I'm some people have said that I'm biased more towards one company or another or something, or like, oh, I I technically like work for SCI now, which is you know contracted through Polaris. So I still post about can ams on my site. Like I obviously I sell Polaris's, I sell Polaris race cars now. That's what I do for a full-time job for SCI. Okay, but I still cover it.

SPEAKER_01 49:23

I didn't know technically what you did.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Yeah, I worked for SCI for Razor Factory Racing SCI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I sell the factory race car. So we've sold 50 of them. So anybody that you see out there that has a factory Polaris got it through me. Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

And I would be like, oh, you got one. I'm glad you're on our wheels.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

Yes, that's where I got it from. But that's my job. Like I said, at the same time, I'm not just only talking about Polaris' and stuff. I still try to cover Can Ams. I cover Kawasaki. I cover everyone. I try to stay a little bit, you know, not biased as much as I can.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Well, yeah, but you have to be biased in a certain sense because that you know so much information about it. How could you not speak about it?

SPEAKER_03 49:58

Yeah, yeah, I know way more about Polaris than I do Can Am. But I still cover Can Amor.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

You're only you're only explaining positive things about something that is like they're making really good products. Like there is no there they are both making good products, but there's multiple companies making good products, right? But you aren't biased just because it's not like you have 20 of these. I have one of each and I get to choose, you know. Like you you get to be biased because that's your life. You can only be biased on what you get to participate in. Yeah, and you get to participate in a lot more players' things. So guess what? You're gonna be biased. It's not an ugly thing. People are so so quick to narrate their judgment on you based off a different opinion, and it's just incorrect.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Yeah, or something that you post online or something, it's just whatever. Yeah, at this point, I don't really care because I've been around it so long, it doesn't bug me. Yeah, it's it's fun. I actually like having fun with it online.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

And I think you have, and that's what I haven't noticed you at all change the direction at all. And that's what I like to see. I I think it's been good in obviously you've grown the scale of what you're doing in a more professional sense, but I don't think uh the character of the show has changed.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

Yeah, I tried try not to try to keep it pretty much the same as I always been. I mean, a person I like to refer to like Pistol Pete. I don't know, did you know Pistol Pete? I've met him a few times.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

I would love because I saw Wills for a living, right? Yeah, and he would run some steely's on 40s, and like I'm like, yeah, you don't need him, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

Yeah, you're not wrong. Yeah, you're not wrong. No, Pete, I I love I love Pete because he called it as he as he saw it. He did what he wanted to do. He didn't care who you were, he just wanted to do it like he was. And in the end of the day, he would have taken his shirt off the back to help anybody, even his worst enemy, if it was in the middle of the desert, like Robbie Gordon. They literally got in a punch up at Parker. I was there, and then exactly at the Blue Water, and then a few months later, Pistol was pre-running in the middle of Baja, came around the corner, and Robbie was broken in his pre-runner. Pistol stopped and he towed him out and he helped him. Yeah, there was a video. They literally had gotten in a fight a couple months before that physical fight, and then he was helping him because that's just who pistol was. It's part of the game. It's just yeah, it's just awesome. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

And those are the people I'm trying to, you know, honestly lift light on. Like I said, the good people that have good intentions about the space and only want to see it grow. Totally. Like, like if, say Pistol at the time didn't do that, that would have been a negative story. Totally. And again, it's not he didn't he did it because there's lots of people that would have kept driving. Like he knew it was gonna be funny, of course. And they both did, but like you the there is not so much, obviously, hatred to leave somebody in the desert.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Yeah, like I I will say there is some people that probably would have left, especially Robbie Gordon. There's people that would have driven by him.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

They won't stick around for that long, though. Pistol is in it for the long game. Yeah, you know what I mean? And that's what you it's like it's I this is a family, it's a small family.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

What goes around comes around very quickly in desert racing.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Well, and it is a small family because people get to to participate in the space for a short segment, like I said, the flash in the pans, they have a good idea, but then if they're not all in for their whole life, they they go away. Yeah, you know, the second if their opportunity's gone or whatever, and they don't see value here anymore, they kind of leave. Now the people like the pistols and the Robbies and like I respect everyone that's in it for the long king because they have a real they have a heart behind it. There's no dollar amount, like there's no dollar keeping them in here.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Nobody's gonna get more money money doing off-road racing. Nobody is.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Even in like, yeah, you make money in other spaces, but there is much easier ways to make money.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

Yeah, and it costs a lot. Desert racing costs a lot. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Even if you work in the industry, there's just different ways. Like, there are other places that have like our our our scope is small. Off-road is small. Like you have to go off the roads that we build every day.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Yeah, enjoy the thing. Even doing Nora, Nora's expensive, you know, the Nora Baja 1000, or the Nora 1000, whatever you want to call it, Nora's 1000, whatever the hell it's called.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Whatever the names are. I don't do that.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

That that's not a cheap race. I mean, we spent over 40 grand when we did that race, and that was us going kind of on a budget. That is like you know, and that was that was a racing UTV. I know. So it's just there's nothing cheap in this in this sport. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

But we gotta like, I I want to try and make sure that the people that are in it stay in it because they can see value and how to add value to it, just like you have, and and anyone else. That that's all I hope to do is show light on how you're finding value and what you're doing can still. And I swear we're all finding so much value. And you hear it too, but like as companies that that we rely on your information, like if you went away, it would be like, okay, well, like I hope score picks it up. And and it's not to say that they couldn't, it just takes a certain type of person, yeah, individual, ideally. That's what a podcast is. This is about you going, There's a problem here, and you you had to fix it for whatever reason. Yeah, or or could you you it wasn't hard for you, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

You know, well, that's kind of like I I have thought about not doing it uh, you know, more than a few times, usually after the thousand every year. Because that's like that's like the big gnarly one, you know. But like uh all right.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

So I think what it is is one of the one somebody out here needs to come give him a week vacation after the thousand. You know, we all come in with a dollar, everyone watching for a dollar, you get to go on vacation.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

Well, every time it's like, yeah, I get over it and I'm like, okay, I'm done. I'm not gonna do it anymore next year. And then I look back and someone will send me a message and like, hey, I really appreciate like the help you gave during the middle of the race. We never would have found our team or we this, and I'm like, uh, or even at the 500, like when the guy was in the accident and the helicopter crash and all that, like, not saying that I did anything big, but I helped connect a couple dots in certain situations there. And I was like, Man, same thing as weather, man. You know, he's not on the mountain anymore, but he's still there. And he even we've had this conversation where he's like, Man, I just I don't want anything to happen to anybody. I'll feel really bad if I wasn't doing it and something happened. And I'm kind of the same way. I'm like, if I stop doing this, is someone else gonna do it, or is yeah, I don't know. I I'm probably too nice. I should just stop when I get done with it. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

All right, guys, this is the end of this just take sure. No, and I I get what you're saying though, because like that, but that that all leads into like you wanting to do it for the right reasons. Like you're in it for the the the people in the space, like because you if you want you wanted to build it because you wanted to see the space have it, it's not because you wanted to do it. Yeah, you know what I mean. You didn't want to be the front man, I I don't know, I'm guessing. I mean, obviously it's fun doing it all, but like I I think in the end you're like, how well how do I get out? Yeah, because like ideally, like I but I don't you can't let it go.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

No, and it's not because you built it. So someone is like, the people have been like, why don't you just sell fish this? I'm like, what am I gonna sell? Yeah, what am I selling? There's nothing there, it's a social media site, like there's nothing to it without me doing the like it's fish. It's not like a company where you have a tangible product and you have a list of customers and a list of dealers and you're selling a product, and then you're like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna cash out here. You're it's your product now, you can sell it to everybody. I don't have any of that thing, so there's nothing to sell.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

And then it's like your name and things, and you don't want to see you don't want to see it go to somewhere, like it's not about the money in the end, and none of it's about the money. Even if you made even 20 grand from in the end, like all said and done, you you washed out 20 grand, like it's still not even worth that it could say it was 200 grand, 500. There's different numbers. So we're just gonna you're like, okay, well, that would really help you. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

If somebody off house every now, somebody wants to buy fishistics for a million dollars, you can buy it right now. It's yours today. Today, I'll give you all the logins right now.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

If even there was a value dollar add to your life where it would get you something you wanted and you could walk away clean and and you saw, like it still isn't even worth the dollar amount if it's not gonna be done right.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

It has to be a big amount. Yeah, yeah. It has to be a big amount. Everything is for sale, always.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Everything that's a good thing to see that there the dollar amount has to be life-changing.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

Yeah. If somebody offered me $100,000 or $200,000 for $56, I wouldn't even sell it. Because what is that really gonna do? Yeah, like it's not really worth it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

And you get to participate in the space. And again, you're your the your the job you're at now probably has a lot of alignment to do with the people you met, where you got to meet them, how you got to be a part of their lives, and and and everything.

SPEAKER_03 58:05

I've made everything that I've done through my whole since I was 16 years old, it's all been connections. And off-road racing, I will say it has a lot of really good people in this sport, like awesome people, like a lot of people with a lot of money that have a good heart, that just want to have everyone have fun and do the right thing. And it really is. I mean, look at the families that have been in racing for the longest, and those are probably the people I'm talking about that are still doing it. You know, you get these guys that come in all flashy, they could buy big chase trucks, come in with semis, blah, blah, blah. You see them for a couple years, maybe, and then they're gone. It's like, what did they really do for the sport? They didn't do anything. Like they came in, they did their bucket list thing, and then they're gone, you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

And I, you know, a guy that like you, you're selling vehicles now, and you get to see that you get to see that guy come in, you're like, okay, I know I know what's gonna happen here.

SPEAKER_03 58:52

Oh, trust me, I've sold vehicles to guys that I know are not gonna race after they do it like one or two times, yeah, and then they're gone.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah, but I've also you get to also have to listen to their whole story about how much they're gonna race. And oh, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 59:01

That's something that's I'm like, I know who this is already, I've seen this story a million times, but I'll still sell them a car, like of course, like where that's the goal, right?

SPEAKER_01 59:08

But you want to believe in them. Yeah, and it's like, but then you find those guys and you're like, okay, he's got it. Yes. You know, he found he got the itch, he got that scratch that like gave him that that that reason to keep going because he found the what I like about off-roading is two things. One, it's an equalizer of everybody. You cannot do this without volunteers. No, no. You there, I don't think Menzi's. I mean, I know he comes down there with 75 people, yeah. You know, and I don't know what level of paid, but it ain't 75.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

No, the Razor the Razor Factory team has close to 100 at some races, and they're not paid. They're no no the the people on the main team, that's their full-time job. Yeah, the other people are volunteers, yeah. So offer racing is a huge volunteer thing.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

It's an equalizer of everybody because even at the highest level of it, people have to do it for free. Yeah. And so, and then you value hey, you're gonna be there, this pit that he is ideal.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

You have to trust him. Even the fueler, the guy putting the fuel in the car, he's got to be able to put fuel in the car correctly, or it might cost you a race.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

And what that guy gets to participate in is he gets to sit in the same seat at the same table with everyone else and and have that coffee, that coffee room chat. You know, just just it it just it's much larger scale to get into a NASCAR seat like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

But off-roads Do you think you could go to NASCAR and you could you could just show up for your first time and you could just go and sit next to Dale Earnhardt Jr. and he's gonna take you out to dinner and hang out with you and everything? That ain't gonna happen. So, again, these races.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

The BA 1000 2014, my buddy from Bakersville that used to be in the street bikes, calls me up. He's friends with a guy in Tulari that has a trophy, saw racing, has money, buys trophy truck, right? Yeah, has a friend, you know, has friends with money, gets partners. They they're they start doing a little bit, it goes all in. Again, this is two helicopters, trophy truck, this guy's this is Gwyn Geyser's number guy, brand new geyser built. Yeah, brand new, brand new, brand new. All in. And you know, and then I get to go sit there and I know nothing about the space. I've been seeing it for a little bit because I've been into trucks, and that's how my friend invited me. He he knows I'm a guy that can just jump in a truck with somebody that knows doesn't know them, sit there for three days. Yeah, yeah. I can talk to anybody. Um so and I sit there and I go down there and I'm seeing I I know some names in the space, but I'm real green, right? And then we get an invite, and I'm it's it's uh this Menzies is pretty new then. This is probably 2014, like I said. Okay. And he's relatively newer and he's good. It's him and his dad. They invite us over to their house. We're staying near him with the where they had that whole that whole complex thing, you know. He has now he's like right when they first bought it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

And we we're having drinks with him there, and you know, his margaritas. I'm like, what this is in this is that guy, and then it's Jesse Jones, and they're like, Oh, yeah, you sell stuff to Boeing.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

I'm like, Jesse's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

And then Jesse, he's wearing his airwalks and it's like scruffy. I'm like, that guy's that good, yeah. You know, yeah, and it's because we're standing next to a fire that's like in Mexico, probably burning trash. Yeah, you know, like it's an equalizer. And it really opened my eyes to to like I grew up in a space that did not get to see wealth. You know, we're from Bakersfield, everyone's everyone's right in here. You know, everyone's got a hundred to two hundred thousand dollar house. Yeah, everyone, everyone, and then there's a few, you know, and I love to see that I saw I for the first time in my life, I think I saw opportunity, and I thought that was the coolest thing about the offered racing.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Um, and and again, with with what what you're doing for us is providing that opportunity to all the new people. You're giving the insight, and you're doing it for no reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

Other than like really, because you're like, I could turn it off tomorrow. I don't think anyone's gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:42

Yeah. Well, it's got it's gotten better, like I said, because there is good, there's better live coverage now the races, so I know that I don't have to like cover it quite as much as I used to, because it is easier to find out what's going on now. It's just the uh the the talent level is not always always there on the uh you know what's what's being broadcast out there, and it's frustrating sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

That you know he's he's fresh and green and he's been doing it and he doesn't doesn't think he can because he Yeah, I don't know. So hopefully he can.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

Hopefully, there's a lot of kids out there that want to want to do the same thing. I mean, like I said, I was 16 when I built my first truck, built it in my parents' driveway in Vista. Yeah, and we went out and we won two championships at MDR back in the day. MDR the 1450 class, so the pre-runner class. Yeah, it was massive.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

You know Brian Metra then, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

Yeah, yeah. So he's a good friend of mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

His birthday was last week, and I was just guy because he had that old 1450 truck, and that was like that was my intro to like off-road racing is that crew of guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:36

Yeah, like the total chaos crew. Total chaos, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

I don't I know I know Nicole very well now, yeah. But Michael Allen was a little before me because he was real popular at space too. Yeah, but yeah, it was Metcha was part, and and my my good friend Elliot with Bad Lines of Good Times, yeah. Um, they were all part of the Total Chaos like crew of like helpers on those cards.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:55

That was the first kit I had on my truck originally before we built into the race truck, was the Total Chaos Kit. They're so good still.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Yeah, every time I ride in my Elliot's truck, I'm like, oh, so funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:04

Yeah, Nicole and Matt and everybody. That that was my first taste of off-road. Was the first off-road product I bought was a total chaos long travel kit for my 92 Toyota pickup trip.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

And me and Nicole go like I've hung out with her in Colorado. We have we have we have stories, we're fine too. And Nicole's the best person.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

No, there's so many good people.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

She's running a business that is 100% in alignment with her life. Yeah, she's not trying to scale it. She's I mean, she is.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:27

Yeah, they've actually kept it, they haven't even grown it that much, like the physical size and everything is like the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

She'll only grow it if it adds value to her life. And she won't take value away from her life because of the business. Yeah. And I I think what you're doing is is great too. Like I said, I don't I don't know if it's it sounds like it's getting a little wearing, and maybe you could use for it. 500% it is, yeah. But again, what I'm what I'm hoping to do with this podcast is really stem light on on people to do things for the right reasons. And again, maybe to show light that there there is we love this stuff. On the industry side of things, we want more people doing what you're doing. Not more, but like we'd rather more people do it with you. Yeah, totally. We don't just like the racing series. I wanted to get back to that at some point. Like we can talk about it another time, but like on the racing series, it's just too broad. And so what you've done is actually brought everybody to like the same like this is who's actually winning right now, which I think is cool information that you've done. But when it comes directly to the the watching the race, um there is no better avenue than than checking in what you got going on right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, that's kind of that was kind of the goal.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Well, it worked out, man, and and you did it again, like I said, for for the right reasons, and I think that's why that's why it all worked out in the end, because there there wasn't a well screw it, you know. Like I it's not worth my time.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

Yeah, you just had to try it. I mean, it didn't cost me anything to start trying it, so it was like, why not, why not just do this? And then it kind of caught on, and it's been it's been a lot of fun. The uh speaking of like you said the standings and stuff. I remember when I put out the trophy truck list uh a couple years back. I don't know if you remember it was like who's the best, and we tr tried to get points from different races and make like the the List of who that that so many people got butthurt. It was like, Well, I'm just taking the data and like you're not as good as you thought you were. I'm sorry for pointing that out. But exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

And that is good information though. Yeah. And and once and and again, it's not it's good information in the right hands, you know, because they either they look at it two ways. Well, he's not gathering the right blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Well, every trophy truck driver thinks they're the best in the world, by the way. Not just trophy truck, most off-road racers.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

Of course. I was gonna say, if you're not gathering good information, well, then you go do it. Yeah, and it's your your what you've done is start everyone in the right direction, and that's what I like. Is getting going and keeping the direction for it. Because because it when you what I really I think when I first noticed what you did was kind of was King of the Hammers in the Desert Race, it really caught my attention because that was the hundred thousand dollar purse time. Yes, and that is that's probably when you really caught my attention because you you knew all what everyone stood.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

And no one else did.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

Because this was the real prize.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

I think I called the winner both both years of the race. It wasn't that difficult, but to me it wasn't. But yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

But you could see it more accurate. It was it's just like that baseball movie, you know what I mean? And you just it's just a weird, it's slightly different.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:12

Well, if you've done something long enough, you should be good at it, right? Like if you've done something for 20 years and you're not doing good at it, you should probably do something else.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

So is there booking and do we have like the like bets? Who has all the gets bets?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:24

Now the races are so freaking close nowadays, it's awesome. I mean, we're like seconds.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Are people betting a lot though?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

Uh uh I don't pay attention. Well, no, the the uh the AORC series or whatever the heck it's called now, they have like the bet online thing where they actually do have some and you can actually bet on them. So like the Mint 400, you can bet on it. I'm not sure if they're doing it for Vegas Torino. I haven't really seen it advertised.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

It probably is, but it was I think that would make this game like because most people found a value in football in like the fantasy side of things. So, like, I there's gotta be something in this space that where people can participate at home.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

There's been fantasy off-road, it just hasn't caught on. There's a couple people that made like a fantasy off-road series, but it was kind of hard because you didn't actually know who was entered until the last second sometimes, and then doing the odds was kind of weird, so it didn't really work. There is there was a couple fantasy off-road series that tried. I tried one one year and it was just too complicated, and then it just, I don't know, kind of fizzled out, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

Well, I want I want to make sure I don't take too much of your time today. And I appreciate everything you've done here. Um, obviously you've you've sold me on on whatever you do with without you know without meeting you. It's just like it was cool to understand why you're doing it in the first place. Because I I fought it, you know, but I I'm I'm again we've crossed paths in so many different ways. I'm not gonna be like, hey, do you do this for the right reason? That I think is the right reason. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:37

So there's there's been a there's been a lot of people in off-road that have been super cool. I mean, it's I've never met so many people that were really just genuine and and nice, you know, and and doing everything for the right reasons. And I've got to do a lot of cool stuff just through connections that I've made, and I don't take that for granted, but it really is, you know, you can tell the difference, at least I can, between someone who's out to get something for themselves from the beginning or just looking to like make a profit or money and they don't really care about you, which off-road industry has a lot of people that genuinely care about others. You know, they've already made their wealth, they've already done good in business, and now they just want to go have fun. And like if you're a good person, they'll take care of you and just you know, to you want to be around those type people. So I like that. And I can tell within 30 seconds of talking to somebody now what kind of off-road racer they're gonna be, you know, just even even selling the race cars. Like, if I'm talking to them on the phone, I can tell, like just in my head, is this okay, they're actually serious, like there's some potential here. Yeah, or oh, let's just sell them a car and see what happens, you know, it's a business.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

I but yeah, yeah, you have to, I mean, you're not gonna not sell somebody their dream. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you also understand how much value and time you can put into their dream. You can put it into their dream.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

Well, when the guy, when I'm talking to the guy on the phone and he's telling me how he's gonna win the next race when he gets the car, I'm just like, I'm like, okay, buddy. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

You're all fast until you weren't.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:55

Yeah, yeah. It's like you're not gonna get in the car and drive it like Brock the first time out. Like if you try, you're gonna crash. And there's been a few that have tried and they've crashed. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

And you're only as good until you you finally land it. You know, you you wait. I can't imagine, like, I don't finish races. Like it's my it's my luck.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

Well, it's most of the time it's the prep. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

Oh, the cars, it's the cars are always broken every time I get in them for some reason. And it's just personal stuff too. Like it's cars break with me. It's okay. But I I I I find where's going with the um the pro. I totally lost my train of thought on all that, but the statistics that you've pulled out are really interesting for these guys to actually see because no one else is doing it. And the race series thing is so widespread of where people want to spend their time and energy. You and most people race the big four now, right? Yeah. Basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:50

Yeah, it's really Mexico's the big series now. Well, there's the mint and Vegas Reno.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

There's yeah, there's those, and I think the ball of Nevada's coming up quick. I don't is it not taking off? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

It had like 50 entries. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

Well, yeah. There's gotta be something stateside, but either way.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:05

Well, the the mint, the mint and Vegas Reno are pretty big.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

Yeah, I know it's I know I know that the well, I said that was the big four in my head. So it's King of the Hammers, the Mint 400, Vegas Torino, and then I say the ball 1000. I call those for for the industry I work in, those are my big four. So I get confused when I talk to people. Those are my big four because those are all bucketless races for somebody. So you've either gonna race one race a year, so you're gonna race the ball 1,000.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

Or the Mint 400. Yeah, right. Or I've always wanted to do Vegas Torino. So I'm gonna add it. So that's a it doesn't mean a bucket list race for you. Like you just have to get it off your checklist. It's a checklist race. You know, Vegas Torino's like, I just want to do it once, it looks fun. That is brutal, by the way. King of the Hammers, you know, it that's one of those things too. People kind of just want to get off their that's a bucket list. Yeah, so you're either not for desert racing. I I wouldn't classify this is how I look classify races. Like the 4400 race. The 4400 rock race. It's it's a it's a bucket list. King of the hammer, and then if you're gonna race Mexico, it's Baha 1000. For sure. Those are the two biggest things. You don't bucket race 250. No, no, no, or the Baja 400.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

Nobody goes and bucket races the Baja 400.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

These are so hard to go to for me, too. Like, I don't want to go to these races right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:09

No, the Baja 1000 is by far the biggest race in the world for off-road racing, like by far.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

But those four races you've able to be to combine and actually share information about now. Because before it was it just wasn't there, and uh and and it's cool because I think you're driving traffic to those places because you can now there is almost like a mini-series that they can run. Yeah, you know, and I like as far as sponsorship goes, they're gonna want to go to those races anyways. Yeah, and there isn't a mini-series built, and I know you guys were a big part of that whole conversation with everyone, and I would love to say that for another time. But yeah, is that we can do it again. Is that going another way anywhere at all?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:44

Which one?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

The the whole thing you guys did. You guys go to the club. Oh, the combination? Did that go?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:48

I don't know. The everybody kind of met, they did have a meeting, everyone got together, the race promoters, and then nothing happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

Was that two years ago? Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:56

Nothing, maybe maybe it was last year. It was probably closer to two years ago. Probably two closer to two years ago. But yeah, no, nothing came out of it. Everybody just talks a big game.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

All right, well, let's fix some stuff. Yeah, you're gonna fix it. Yeah, I know. No, I don't want anything. That's the next program.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:10

The worst the worst job ever would be being a race director. Like Jose G and those jobs, I would never want that job, and I give them mad props because all they do is get shit from people all day. Nobody's ever happy, no matter what you do. The course is never perfect. Someone always doesn't like something, and it doesn't matter. It's just a thankless job. It really is. Like if anybody ever says thank you to them, I would really be surprised.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

You know, I say thank you to LSO a lot. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:37

Same thing. LSAO is they're all in the same category. LSO, uh Jose G.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

I'm just like, I'm just like, he's such a nice guy. He's the nicest guy. Don't shit on him like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:47

Same with Jose G. Everyone's like, oh, he's a dick. Like, no, he's not. He's just he's strict, he runs it. He doesn't care who you are. If you break a rule, you're getting a penalty. You know, so then if you break a rule, they don't like him because he gave him a penalty. It's like, don't break the fucking rule. Like, why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

You know, like and I but maybe maybe it's uh something else you could add to your list of things you could do is add add talk about rules and pre-show stuff because I think there is it's hard for for everyone to listen all at the same time. And so maybe if there was a place where we could they because I don't know what all the rules are for all the schools, well, this is a whole nother conversation, but we could uh talk about rules a whole nother time.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:21

Everybody should have a universal rule book as well. That would be crazy. Every single race series should have the same rules and the same classes, the same numbers, the same names for the classes. If you had that across all of them, it would be much easier to promote desert racing to the general public. Of course. Because right now they go to a best in desert race and they see a trick truck, whatever, like what the hell's a trick truck? You go to Mexico, you see a trophy truck. Then the numbers for one UTV class are 1800 in score. Yeah, but then you go to best in the desert and it's like a B or a V and an N. It's like, what the hell class is that? I don't even know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

In the industry I work in, there's a thousand racers I have set up over the more than a thousand. Okay. Um, I'm spoken to directly. How am I in all from from Alabama to Florida to Maine? Like, I don't know what class where series they're racing in. How are you supposed to pay attention? How am I supposed to know? I can't even follow it. You're like, what's NA there? It is like all these commas and BS, and it's like I it's so and and why can't we just get the top level guys on the same page? Yeah, just the tippy top. There's five guys, there's five cars, you know what I mean? Classes. Yeah, can we just at least line those five up?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:32

Exactly. Just get the main classes the same across.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:34

So we can't so you can have a good conversation without oh, because the second you say trick trucks, you because it's like a oh, it's a legal thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:41

Yeah, you like the colour. Yeah, Spore has a trademark on trophy truck if you don't know. That's they do. They have a trademark, so nobody else can call it the trophy truck.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:48

We know why, but it's why.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:50

Yeah, yeah. In my opinion, just let them all call a trophy truck and it'd be better for everybody. I don't mind with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

But share it. Yeah, let it let them use it. Yeah, share it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

Yeah. Same thing with the UTV classes, make them all the same across all of them. There's a lot of them now, and I I'm not super happy there's a lot of them, but there is, and they should just all be the same because it's so confusing when you go to watch a race at King of the Hammers, and then you go watch a race at Parker, and then you go watch a race at San Felipe, you have no idea who's in what class unless you're in the sport, and I don't even know half the time. So if I'm getting confused, other people are definitely getting confused.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:21

And I'd say we're we're part of a very, and again, we'll we're we can chat all night about this stuff, but we're in a very interesting space where there are so many variations to classes. Yeah. Like the UTV class segment and score is ridiculous. I mean, even for Nora, you get these people racing, and there's one guy, two guys per class. Like that, there's no reason in any other racing series like circle track, there'd be two guys in your class. I mean, there or maybe there is, but there shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:48

No, I mean you need you need a few different classes as long as there's enough cars in the class to support it. So if you have five classes of anything, as long as you have like five entries in each class, okay, at least you have a class.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

Why not a handicap? Why not just build handicaps so everyone can just race against each other under handicap?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:04

The problem is some of these cars are so much different from each other that you really need one. We're the that's another that's another discussion. I gotta go in a few minutes. I know. We all gotta go.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:13

Um uh thank you enough for coming out here and coming on this podcast with me and starting this out. Um, hopefully found value in this, and again, hopefully you guys uh come check the next ones out.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

Yeah, it was super f it was super fun. I'm glad I'm glad I could come be a part of it and kick it off, and I'm sure you'll uh do a good job. I'll be watching some of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:29

We'll get out of here.